Baby Squared

The Defiant Ones

Elsa and Clio are having some authority issues. Particularly at bedtime. I suppose this isn't surprising. They're at their tiredest and crankiest at the end of the day, AND they don't particularly want to go to bed. Not to mention the fact that I am starving (we still eat after they go to bed, for a variety of reasons) and, four days out of seven, have had a long day at work and am looking forward to relaxing, so I'm not at my best, and am not interested in letting the bedtime ritual drag on indefinitely.

 

So I am finding myself at my wits' end lately when, for example, one of them will refuse to brush her teeth. She'll simply refuse to leave the nursery and come into the bathroom. Or she will do something silly, like Clio did the other night: dance around the hall wearing a pair of sunglasses (upside down) and make goofy faces, while I tried to help Elsa brush her teeth. Of course, Elsa thought what Clio was doing looked like a lot more fun, and started asking me to go downstairs and find her sunglasses, too, so she could do the same thing. Oral hygiene was a lost cause. I don't even remember how I finally got everyone to shut the hell up (oh dear; did I just write that? Yes I did) and brush their damned teeth (and that? Oh, my). Somehow I did. But by the time I'd read them their books, wrangled them into their cribs and given them the ten thousand "just one more" kisses and hugs and back rubs they wanted, I was totally fried. 

 

In general, my strategy for dealing with out and out defiance is one or more of the following:  1.) Give the defiant one a minute or a bit of space and let her comply on her own, which she sometimes will. This can work well in situations like toothbrushing refusal. But it is not so feasible if, for example, we're leaving the playground and one child is already loaded in her carseat, in a very hot car, and the other child has decided that she absolutely must continue scraping the rock she has found against the sidewalk.

 

2.) If #1 doesn't work or is not applicable, make it clear that there will be a consequence. As in: it's up to you, but if you don't brush your teeth, that means we won't have a story before bed. Sometimes that works, other times not. When it doesn't, in that particular scenario, it means that the defoamt one will stand in her crib and scream while I read a story to her sister. Even if I do it in the next room. And then I have to attempt to calm the screamer enough that the other sister can actually go to bed. Sometimes it is workable. Sometimes it's not.

 

Consequences really are a lot more complicated with twins, especially when they share a room. It can often mean that the "innocent" one ends up losing out, too. Like in the army. (Actually, I don't know if that's how it really works in the army, but in army movies from the 80s it always seemed like when one guy screwed up, the whole division would end up having to scrub latrines or jog ten miles or something. And I base much of my knowledge in life on movies from the 80s. Which is why I know that Russians are evil, an abortion costs $200 and high school principals are all morons.)

 

3.) When nothing else works, I will bodily remove the child (because often it's a matter of getting her to come or go somewhere -- upstairs, downstairs, in the car, into the bathroom, etc.). If I can muster the emotional energy, I do it in a silly or amusing way. With an airplane sound or with a bouncing motion. When I can't, in a very brisk and business-like fashion. Sometimes while clenching my teeth to keep from being more brisk than I need to be.

 

I'm thinking I should probably hit the books and try to read up on some effective strategies for dealing with defiant toddlers / preschoolers, because I obviously have -- er -- "spirited" children, and two of them, and surely this is going to be a common theme over the next few years. (Brief respite in the school years, and then...adolescence.) Knowing that it's never easy, I would still like to have some "best practices" in my arsenal. I feel like I'm winging it here, and could probably be doing a much better job. How do you cope when your kids simply refuse to do (or not do) something you ask or expect them to? 

 


+ DIGG + DEL.ICIO.US

Comments

 

Jen said:

So much yielding of emotional energy and authority to children leaves one useless for adult and other encounters/engagements. Set a couple of rules, attach escalating loss of privileges and stick to it.

August 10, 2009 4:07 PM
 

Eva said:

We have similar situations. A lot. I read some parenting books. And I don't love everything about any one book. And I do find myself threatening taking away privileges more than I would like. It doesn't always work, but choices and counting often do. Choices, as in:

You can come to the bathroom now, or I will come and carry you to the bathroom.

Counting as in:

I'm going to count to three and after that, I will come carry you to the bathroom (or after that, you will lose your reading privileges). One, two (duh).

Often they are running by two. Though other times they laugh or ignore me.

I think these things will only get harder, as I fear they are already beginning to outsmart me!

August 10, 2009 4:10 PM
 

Marym said:

I agree - my two most effective tactics are Choices and Counting.  Not that they always work, but seem to work most often.  And of course the choices should always lead to the same end result - do you want to brush your teeth standing on the stool or on the floor?  Do you want to put your shoes on over on the couch or on the floor..

My latest challenge is the stalling..mommy is just want a tiny tiny cup of milk before i go to sleep...

August 10, 2009 6:10 PM
 

Jules said:

Choices work for us, too, but it's definitely the more time-sensitive times that make me grit my teeth and get more "businesslike"--bedtime procrastination being among the most, when I either need to put the baby to bed, too.  The businesslike tone/attitude doesn't usually work.  

My husband is the master of distractions and changing the subject, and he always seems to have the energy to do things in a funny way.  He is also very perceptive about what Harper needs right then and is very patient about making these things happen, whether it means he's brushing his teeth, too, or that she's using his toothbrush (OK, maybe gross) or that he's lying down on her floor for a bit when she asks him to stay for just one more minute at bedtime.  I'm more likely to sit for a true minute and then attempt to leave, even if it results in crying.

I think that most of all, we both recognize that toddlers have so little real choice about what happens to them that it's really important that Harps gets to make her own small choices (shoes on or off?  eat at the table or in the family room?) so she feels a bit in control.

It's a relief to hear that my toddler isn't the only kid who suddenly hates getting washed in the bath and stalls at bedtime...

August 10, 2009 7:40 PM
 

Melissa said:

This two year old defiance thing is very frustrating.  And it definitely is worse with twins.  In college, I used to babysit twins and they would often set each other off.  I have no suggestions because I have one very defiant little boy of my own who is very resistent to reverse psychology and distraction. Some days are worse than others.

August 10, 2009 9:30 PM
 

EG said:

Just last night I was thinking about the Bedtime Breakdown.  And it's ME that's breaking down.  I can deal with defiance and two-ness all night, but when we get upstairs to get ready for bed, my patience is gone.

We rely on losing privledges, too, like no story if you misbehave.  Of course sometimes this will throw him over the edge and he'll scream and scream.  And no, he won't eventually calm down and go to sleep.

Last night after his bath he wouldn't let me diaper him, so I finally just left the room, closed the door, and went about my business.  A minute later the naked boy was standing at the top of the stairs.  I asked him if he was ready to put on pajamas and go to bed, he said yes, and he was good the rest of the evening.  So that might be my new tactic.

And I only have one two-year-old, so I can't empathize with twin twos, but I sympathize!

August 11, 2009 10:30 AM
 

Danielle said:

Oh Jane, I SOOOO hear your frustration. My girls are 3 and have been in that stage for the past 6 months or so. Sometimes counting works for us, but sometimes not so much. At bedtime, I can't bear to take away the book reading privilege for fear that the crying at bedtime will go on for an hour or more while I have my head in my hands and can't enjoy the 2 hours that are supposed to be peaceful. What has worked recently is sticker rewards. They love stickers, so if they are resisting coming into the bathroom to brush teeth, I'll say something like "no sticker tonight if you don't come right now and brush your teeth." Or I'll give them a series of events that they have to accomplish to get the sticker before bed. (Just a small sticker that they get to stick on a piece of paper taped to their bedroom door) like, brush teeth, go potty, put pull-up on. And then there is also the option of threatening to take a sticker OFF their page if they are not listening. Nothing's a sure thing as we all know, but if Elsa and Clio are into stickers it might be worth a try. We used them for potty training too with great success. Good luck! Bedtime is by far my most challenging time after a long day. My patience just snaps so much earlier for very stupid reasons.

August 11, 2009 10:31 AM
 

jan said:

I think it matters less what you do than it does that you stick.  No absolutely never (never never never) becomes yes.  Yes can easily become no.  And if they aren't cooperating they don't deserve bouncing or airplane noises, so let that part go.  I don't think it is so bad that both sisters lose a story if one misbehaves -- peer pressure baby.  Use it to your advantage while you can.

August 11, 2009 10:34 AM
 

diera said:

I don't consider myself particularly authoritarian, but for a preschooler in the case of like tooth brushing or getting in the car, I'm pretty much all about option 3.  If you refuse to get your teeth brushed or come to the car, all that means is that you STILL get your teeth brushed or wind up in the car, but it's something that happens TO you, which kids at this age hate in my experience.  I don't make it silly or fun AT ALL, and I'm probably about twice as brisk as I need to be, although not rough or cruel.  

I'm all about choice when there are genuine choices (I think choice works great in getting kids to do things like put on their clothes) but some things aren't choices, not even in the sense that you lose privileges when you don't do them, not at that age anyway.  Brushing your teeth every night is mandatory, period, and the only choice you really get is whether it happens the easy way or the hard way.  Maybe I'm more of a hard-ass than I think.

August 11, 2009 10:45 AM
 

Sara said:

Everyone's given good advice, but I just wanted to remind you that rewards really do work better than consequences. So, better to say that if we brush our teeth really fast with no fuss (and be concrete about what this means: for example, you brush while I count to ten), then we can have an extra book or an extra kiss, etc. And then lots of praise for earning the reward. Toddlers really have a a -lot- of trouble grasping the meaning of consequences and it probably just seems unfair to them, hence the subsequent tantrums.

That said, I know that this sort of stuff is really tough when you (sometimes me) are tired, hungry, etc. Might I suggest a snack (for you!), or a switch with your husband? You cook dinner while he does bedtime?

I think everyone gets p-ed off with their kids. It's kind of like tantrums: It's easier to prevent mommy meltdowns, if possible, then ameliorate them once they've kicked in, full force.

August 11, 2009 11:57 AM
 

Marie-Eve said:

Glad to read this if just to realize that we're not alone. I wish I had solutions, Jane... I'm mostly just trying to remain fairly consistent, and get by without taking it personally or freak out.

August 11, 2009 12:11 PM
 

Heather said:

I got this strategy from my two-year-old's Montessori teacher, and it works really well in a variety of situations: "It looks like  you need help <doing whatever... e.g.: coming to the car>.  Do you want me to help you, or can you do it by yourself?"  Usually she immediately says that she'll do it by herself, and complies with the situation.  If not, I "help" her.

August 11, 2009 2:30 PM
 

Roper said:

Thank you guys for all the great tips and advice -- keep 'em coming.

I think I really do need to be more firm sometimes. I can be a bit of a pushover, and I think it is sort of the classic dilemma of the working mom -- bedtime is some of the only time I get with the girls Mon - Thurs, so I hate for it to be unpleasant.

(My schedule is also reason I do bedtime instead of Alastair -- he's home with them at least half of every day, and is looking forward to a break. We do plan to shift more cooking to him, though...)

August 11, 2009 3:01 PM
 

Lena said:

WOMAN! I *swear* you're tuned into my life. I was having this very conversation with my parents last night (they were at my house) after a very frustrating and drawn out bedtime with my girls. For over a year, bedtime has been beautiful: bath, brush, book and bed. Then they added lullabies. First just one verse each of Twinkle Twinkle, now Twinkle Twinkle and then Rock A Bye Baby...then "Mama, ice" (in their water sippies) then "Mama, baby!" (all of their baby dolls have to be in the crib) then "Mama, blanket!".... you get the jist. And when I place them in their cribs after all that effort, I get screaming, wild-animal children.

Anyhoo, I LOVE the idea of a reward instead of a consequence - I'm putting up a sticker chart on their bedroom door tonight when I get home. (My schedule is similar to yours - bedtime is the only time I get to see them 3 days out of the week)

Also, can a get a WHOOP WHOOP from other twin moms on this  statement: "Consequences really are a lot more complicated with twins" Lately, I've been so frustrated with the lack of twin discipline advice out there because HELLO? It is so freaking different when you have 2 (or more) that are at the same developmental stage.... sigh

August 11, 2009 8:25 PM
 

Melinda Zerkula said:

Jane, please visit my twin God-daughters` blog that I`ve created for them and tell me if you like it, plus advice, tips and so on. Thank you very much!!!

August 12, 2009 4:50 AM
 

Melinda Zerkula said:

August 12, 2009 4:50 AM
 

diera said:

I'm a working mom too, so I totally get that concern.  On the other hand, I don't find trying to negotiate with teensy irrational people all that pleasant either.  I think my tendency is to be totally easygoing about some/most things (sure, you can wear a ski hat and rain boots to school on a sunny July day if you want; you can dump out the art box and make a huge mess; you can play with your food within reason; jumping on most of our furniture is allowed) but for the things that I *do* care about I just don't have the patience to mess around.  When I use my serious voice, I mean it, and non-compliance results in the exact same outcome except that it happens involuntarily.  My seven-year-old doesn't appear to have been too badly warped by this approach, and I hope it works on my current two-year-old too.

Our day care uses @Heather's way of putting it; "I see you're not brushing your teeth, do you need me to help you or can you do it yourself?"  I think that works pretty well although I'm not sure I always remember to word it that way.

August 12, 2009 2:31 PM
 

April said:

All too familiar my dear.  Same thing with my boys.  Eric is so darn heavy and my back so messed up I find myself literally dragging him around when he refuses to cooperate.  Do I feel bad about it? Not really.  One of these days he will learn to just come on his own plus I can't make my arthritis in my back go away so I can heft him like a weight lifter.  Tough love.  

Mine have been very defiant lately too. I think why do I bother being a nice parent who goes out of my way to take you to parks and playgrounds and toy stores and playdates if all you are going to do is give me a hard time? Do you realize some parents beat their kids when they disobey?   Do you realize how lucky you have it?  I am sure they don't and this theme will continue.

Hang in there.

August 12, 2009 6:51 PM
 

April said:

Like you at the end of the day I collapse into bed after getting them down.  I can't even move anymore.  My muscles just turn into putty.  Micah knows not to ask me to get up if they cry and check on them. He knows I won't.

August 12, 2009 6:52 PM
 

Jennifer said:

My husband and I use the 2 on 2 approach at bedtime.  Even though I'm home alone all day with our almost 3 year old twins, I'd rather help him with bedtime so it only takes an hour rather than an hour and a half.  Dealing with irrational 2 year olds is much easier if there's another adult there with you (especially at the end of the day).

August 13, 2009 2:14 PM
 

April said:

Like Jennifer we also tag team the bedtime routine. He helps wrangle them into the bathroom and brushes teeth. I undress them and then bathe them. Then we each dress one baby.  When we have to do it all by ourselves it is quite exhausting.  

I wanted to tell you, we broke our twins of passys last week!!!!  They were the biggest passy boys.  I tried to limit it to night night time, but they would grab them and run away and I would chase them all day long. Finally Harrison started chewing them up so I said "Time to break them of this before he chokes on it one night."  It was just one night of screaming from 7:30 to 11:30 and waking up at 1 for a minute to scream and then they were cured. It figured it would be much much worse.  I think your girls still use them for night night time too right?  Well that is how it worked for us. We also let them go to Toys R us and exchange the passys for a new toy.  Then I would remind them that they got rid of passy for toy remember?  They seemed okay with that.

August 14, 2009 7:09 PM

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I'm an advertising copywriter, wannabe novelist, mother of twins, musician's wife, bleeding heart and wiseass.

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Jane Roper

Jane Roper in Boston

One baby? Piece of cake. Try two. This working mother gives you the inside scoop on the ultimate in extreme parenting: twins.

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