T-I-M-E O-U-T

re: T-I-M-E O-U-T

April — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:38:53 GMT

I saw a quote from you in Parents magazine. I was reading the article and was like "Hey I know that name!" It was about you sleeping in the supply closet when you were pregnant with the girls. Congrats. :)

If you get American Baby magazine I was quoted in like the June issue I think. It was about getting a dad to participate with the baby and I wrote that you should have multiples and then dad has no choice but to participate. :P

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Nancy — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 19:13:48 GMT

I know you don't really "do" the award thing, but I left you something on my blog because it just made sense. You don't have to do a darn thing with it - but I thought of you and thought you should know...

re: T-I-M-E O-U-T

karynk — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:52:07 GMT

Use the crib. They can't go anywhere. And no fun dolly! And leave! That's what we do.

Although I have to say my daughter who is exactly your daughters' age sometime asks for timeouts too...weird. She still cries and bellows in timeout. I guess she's masochistic??

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mombo — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:02:50 GMT

The whole individual-consequences thing is interesting. It's going to be a long, long life lesson for them as they age. What about when one of them is grounded while the other one gets to take the car out? A dilemma that's not going to go away...

In other words, keep reinforcing it. They'll get it.

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Roper — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:16:33 GMT

So much fabulous advice!

It seems like at this age, which is so transitional between baby and kid, it's worth us doing a little experimenting with different approaches and seeing what works.

As someone commented, it IS a lot more complicated with twins because while you're trying to gently but sternly explain to one why it's not OK to hit, and let's play with these toys instead, the other one is whining for you to get them some milk, or climbing on the dining room table, etc.

And I think they have a really hard time understanding / accepting when we treat one of them differently from the other. If I end Elsa's meal because she's throwing food, but Clio's still sitting in her high chair eating, either Clio will then want to get down too, or Elsa will pitch a fit because Clio gets to eat and she doesn't. They just don't get the subtleties of the whole individual actions-lead-to- individual-consequences thing.

I guess I should buy a book or something. But I'd rather just ask all of you. :D

Still feeling OK! (But fighting a cold -- I'll take that over depression any day.)

re: T-I-M-E O-U-T

Alyson — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 05:28:34 GMT

I read somewhere that a timeout should be "a time out from feedback - positive or negative" - not time for them to "think about what they did." In that vein we do timeouts on the floor in the hallway, around the corner from the living room. I take them to the spot, tell them they are in timeout and for what, and go set the timer. Then I ignore them completely. (The challenge is sometimes keeping her sister from interacting with her.) When the timer beeps, I ask the perpetrator to come to me. I remind them of why they were in time out ("Biting hurts!") and ask them to say they are sorry. Timeouts are not over until the words, "Sorry, Sissy" are produced. I usually ask them to hug, but if one of them is not willing I don't push it. Then I hug and kiss them, and tell them that they aren't in trouble any more and to go play.

Does it do anything? I don't think so... yet. I mean, the threat of timeout is not a big deterrent or anything. But I feel like I have to do something to draw the line as to unacceptable behaviors and "discipline" them. (We're not supposed to say "punish" anymore, right?)

I need to buy a book about how to do this crap. :)

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winecat — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 02:43:48 GMT

I'm so glad you're feeling better! My beloved Dr. Sanity just returned from 8 grueling (for me) days away. I saw her this afternoon, it helped SO much.

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Lin — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:11:01 GMT

I'm a fan of logical consequences. Time-out is only a logical consequence for temper-tantrums, when the child actually needs to be separated in order to collect their thoughts and regain composure to rejoin the group. I prefer time-outs that are ended by the child themselves (ie: "go sit on the stairs and when you are ready to play nicely and calmly, then you can come back" and then remind them if they come back before they are ready).

As far as hitting, it's a good time to start teaching empathy instead of always having to discipline and remove the offender (besides, sometimes you will only catch one child, when both are hitting!). For example, point out that Elsa is crying because Clio hit her and say that a nice hug will make her feel better. Then say "it hurts people when you hit them! Let's place with these toys instead".

Throwing food? The kid who throws food is warned "if you continue throwing your food, your dinner is over" and make sure you mean it! If you're worried about starving them, save their dinner and reoffer it later on. Also, the one who makes the mess cleans it up (with your help, obviously).

Another tip: Praise the kids who are doing well and ignore those who are acting up. ie: Clio is eating so nicely today! or What nice gentle pets for the cat, Elsa.

Kids who hate time out use it as a chance to plan revenge or stew about how much they dislike their parents for putting them there! Very rarely does it work to rethink the behaviour. The best thing you can do is give logical consequences and redirect to 'good' behaviour.

PS: I think I'd willingly take a time-out most days!!

PPS: So sorry if this double-posts, my internet is crazy today.

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Lin — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:09:21 GMT

Another tip: Praise the kids who are doing well and ignore those who are acting up. ie: Clio is eating so nicely today! or What nice gentle pets for the cat, Elsa.

PS: I think I'd willingly take a time-out most days!!

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karmamama — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:55:29 GMT

We haven't used time-outs, per se, but we do, like someone else mentioned, sometimes tell our 19 month old that she needs to go "take a break" and then we put her in her crib. When I nannied two toddlers, this was very effective - the one was contained and actually did have the time and space to settle down, while the other played happily. It also reinforced that it wasn't just fun and games, because we would put them in their crib and leave the room, and toddlers don't much like being alone, especially when they're looking for an audience for their drama llama ways!

Love hearing about the girls - and so glad to hear you're starting to feel "normal" again. Hang in there!

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Heather — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:31:01 GMT

I asked my babysitter about disciplining as my adorable 15 month old son is into biting these days (UGH!!) She's been running daycare out of her house for 18 years and she says the only consistent thing that works is Mom (or dad or caretaker) very explicitly showing serious disapproval and then ignore the child completely (like literally turn your back on them and don't look at them) for X minutes (1,2,3 whatever is appropriate for age and personality). Obviously this can be done with time out but only if you put them in time out an ignore them. (We use the Pack N Play for time out BTW) Especially if the cause of the "bad" behavior is a desire for attention, then any form of discipline that gets attention, even negative attention, will just reinforce the problem. That's why ignoring is the key. (supposedly!) If putting the girls in time out is effectively giving them a spot-light of attention maybe that's why they like it???

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Ivana — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:25:39 GMT

Hey Jane! What's really weird is that, childless as I am, my dog knows how to spell certain words. Well, I guess not really, but she definitely knows that Walk & W-A-L-K, and Milk & M-I-L-K are the same thing. So now, if we say walk or W-A-L-K we have to be ready to leave that instant. And as for the M word, now I have started saying Leche instead. We'll see how many languages she goes through in her serious obsession with the oh-so-delicious white frothy liquid!

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mombo — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:38:20 GMT

Another strategy altogether is the distraction trick, as suggested by April and others. If they're throwing food, maybe suggest that they either eat it or move it to another spot on their plate (give them an extra bowl for this). If they're hitting each other, have them try hitting the couch or a stuffed animal instead.

Sometimes this works for mine; sometimes he's in the pack-n-play alone for a few minutes.

And I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the multi-day streak continues. Go Roper!

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April — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:17:32 GMT

One thing I do really seems to work with them and you might want to try this. Our playroom is all gated off and totally childproof so I can leave them in there alone safely. If I am in the playroom playing with them or trying to play with them and they start fussing with each other or at me, then I say "Okay if you can't play nice then mommy is going to leave. I won't stay in here while you fuss at me."

Then I get up and leave. I will go do something for 10 to 15 mins then I come back. Everytime they are no longer crying and are playing quietly by themselves. Then they are happy to see me again and we play together.

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April — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:11:16 GMT

Same here. I have only had to put E in time out but he always laughs and smiles the whole time. We stand him in a corner and hold him there or in our laps or in a chair. Either way he laughs. We count to 20 or so.

I am not into yelling or acting mad at them or hitting them. But at this point they don't understand reason or remember what we tell them very well so there is not much way to punish them. Very frustrating! You kinda just have to do what you can at this age and eventually it will sink in but probably not anytime soon.

Glad you are feeling better. :)

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Sheri — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:52:20 GMT

Enjoy that spelling while you can! Our daughter is five, and spelling has just ceased to work. We were spelling out our discussion of her major Xmas gift the other night--and were appalled to realized that she understood at least half of it. Woe is us!

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Hollis — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:50:39 GMT

I thought that this article in Slate was pretty good on time-outs:

www.slate.com/.../2194331

I think that the time-out is pretty good for the actual taking of time apart (for sanity of mother and child), but my sense is that it is not a particularly effective teaching mechanism.

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Marie Eve — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:00:00 GMT

I'm happy to read that you're feeling better... And the girls' reaction to timeout is just hilarious...

My son is nearly 22 months and I haven't started timeouts yet. Discipline consists of a very firm NO! accompanied by holding his arm and being "serious-faced mommy" for a few minutes. Reading your post is making me realize that discipline has to be so much of an issue with 2 of them in the house, vying for the same toys and the same attention... Parents of multiples, I really admire you!

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EG — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:55:35 GMT

The pediatrician told us at our 15 month checkup that we can start using timeouts. I'm no know-it-all, you'll fully understand that when I tell you how time-outs are going, but I'm thinking having a toy in time-out may not get the job done.

So the ped said the main purpose of time-out is exactly that - when they're over stimulated and truly need a time out. And the main impact is that they aren't getting your attention. She also said that we may need to hold Little Man in place at first until he gets what we're expecting from him. And I'm here to tell you that we have to hold him down EVERY TIME, 4 months into it. Oh he gets it. He just wants to make a run for it.

The force is strong in this one.

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AnneAC — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:38:59 GMT

Glad to see you've had a couple of good days. As someone who suffers from depression, I understand and will keep my fingers crossed for you.

I am also a professor of child development and want to lend my opinion. Time out is not super-effective for this age. I recommend doing what previous posters have suggested making your child "take a break" and removing them from the situation instead of using time out as a punishment. A child younger than 3 or so does not have cognitive abilities to grasp time out. Most often they are over/under stimulated, doing something because it's fun, or because it elicits a response from something (Mom, Dad, Dog, Cat, Sister, etc), and behave accordingly.

I have a 2 year old and have recently started using the "You obviously need a break right now" stance and take him and sit quietly for a few minutes without being overly affectionate/coddling while we sit.

Good luck with this! Toddlers are so fun (75% of the time)!

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Melissa — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:35:32 GMT

Timeouts don't work for Michael yet. He doesn't really get it, he just gets up. (Uh, yeah, he's a little headstrong. I'm working on that, Elsa and Clio.)

I think the playpen thing T's mom mentioned makes sense, though we don't have that kind of set up in our living room.

The high chair is another option, because he can be restrained, but it might send a mixed message as in, "Well, where's the food?" and maybe give him a negative association with the high chair....?

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T's mom — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:13:34 GMT

Our son is only 20 months but we recently implemented TO's in the playpen when he's throwing tantrums. He'd never sit still in a chair or on the floor plus he's a head banger when he's having tantrums so the playpen is the safest placed. It works for him but only because we put him in there and then scoot out of eyesight. When he stops freaking out we go to him. Usually 30 seconds or so.

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Rachel — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:48:00 GMT

We used to (actually still do) say "You need to take a break" and physically move Evie to another location. It happened rarely, but it was usually in the context of a playdate with another child of the same age. Somehow the idea of taking a break seemed both like punishment (having to stop what I'm doing) and also like a well-needed respite from escalating situations. It got to a point where she could identify when she was getting a little out of control and would say (or scream) "I need to take a break!" and stomp off to the break location. (My daughter is nothing if not self-aware). Anyway, sometimes it's the choice of language that makes the difference. "Time out" was never effective for us, but "take a break" was. And at her preschool they say "take a seat." Maybe playing with your terms might help?

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Ann — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 03:34:32 GMT

Stairs work well in my house... and on another note, I am SO glad to hear you are feeling better and ::knock on wood:: I hope that feeling is here to stay!

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Liz — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 03:04:47 GMT

I can't help but giggle about wanting to go into timeout. :-)

My kids are too young for them yet (not even 16 mos), but I've heard some people use a mat in the corner, like a doormat. A friend of mine also had her son sit on the "naughty step" (i.e. go sit on the stairs). OK, that makes me giggle, too...