FameCrawler

Embarassing for all of us..mostly McCain. Related to Keating? He is no independent voter.

This guy hardly represents the middle class Buying a business please.I knew something was up. Too much media around him.

and after he fixes your faucet, maybe he could fix mine!

There is nothing about this is the mainstream media yet; it is probably just some left wing propaganda and probably not even true.  

Actually I thought he was a real guy until this morning when I watched GMA interview on Joe.

He doesn't have the money to buy a business, said he's not even close to having the money to buy the plumbing business. Then he went off on Obama being a socialist, punishing hard working americans, and you could really see him getting angry.

Hmmm. Diane Sawyer (I think it was her) told him tax rate for someone in the $250k+ range would go from 36% to 39%, he really seemed upset. She asked him who he was voting for and he said he's not telling but everyone out there should make up their own minds or something to that effect. Last question she asked was if he was registered to vote, he replied yes.

The earlier news clip looked fine and authentic, seeing the Joe interview on GMA it really looked like a plant.

He's not a union plumber, I can say that much.

So, true. Hey and isn't that name also.......maybe not born in the USA way back?

Duh...I hope they bust his ass.

I thought so!  There was something too convenient about this.  They could've at least picked someone not named "Joe" - since they're moving from Joe Sixpack to Joe the Plumber.  Are people ignorant enough to fall for this stunt?!!

some missing info

Obama met "Joe" when Obame made a surprise visit to a Toledo neighborhood and went door to door, so how could McCain "plant" him there?

Anyone that is gonna be talked about during a debate gets prior notice. They have to allow it.

Yes McCain is wrong on most issues, and yes most of his supporters are uninformed, but dont call all of them plants.... they are really that ignorant.

What you guys don't get is that, legitimate or not, Joe The Plumber hightlights the elitism of Obama, the Democratic Party, and the mainstream media.  The emergence of Joe the Plumber simply hightlights the fact that Obama has not been properly vetted, and will not be by the mainstream media unless they are forced to by "Joe The Plumber", real or not.  "Joe the Plumber" represents alot more people than you might imagine, especially between the coasts.  I'm a millionaire investment advisor who falls squarely in Obama's sights.  I can assure you that every dollar Obama raises my taxes will be met by a corresponding cut in payroll at my company.  Practicing charity with another man's money = socialism.

In response to Scott above, unfortunately that seems to be the standard Republican business owner response:  I need to keep all of my wealth and pile up more, so if you tax me, I'll simply pass through those taxes to those who work for me in the form of wage cuts or layoffs.  How much is enough, Scott?  If you consider taxes to be practicing charity with another man's money to be socialism, isn't profiting from the efforts of your employees exploitation?

No doubt he's a plant. His delivery in that conversation with Obama was far too convenient. He just went right at it. No Hellos, how are you doing or anything.

What are the chances that his "business" would make close to or EXACTLY that magic number 250,000 he could easily have gone with 300,000 ? 180,000? 350,000 but Joe explicitly had to state 250,000.

Give me a break Scott, we're all impressed with you being a millionaire, legitimate or not. You are the problem in this country, whining about having to give up some of the tax breaks you never deserved in the first place. Anyone who would punish their employees because one's personal taxes were restored to the previous level is worse than a tyrant. I seriously doubt you have any employees but are just an angry ranter who wants to scare people about the horrible consequences of, wait for it, "socialism". Your team (Republicans) has blown it for the last 14 years and now everyone is suffering the real horrible consequences. Put a sock in it.

"Practicing charity with another man's money = socialism"

as opposed to what is going on in Wall street ... practicing charity on rich people with tax payer money

Registered to vote? Some sites say yes.

A real plumber (contracting license or union member)? Looks like no.

Already has 3 other companies? Construction companies in Ohio who's owner has Joe's name.

Keating relative? That debate continues.

Inquiring minds want to know the FACTS!

At least Joe Sixpack has a last name now.

To Jennifer Runion

If I am not mistaken JOE does not OWN the plumbing business yet. He would like to purchase it. And why do you think a middle class person cannot OWN their own company. Maybe you cannot, maybe you are not smart enough or lack ambition. I have not seen the facts on weather he is licensed or union yet. But who cares, I think he represents a lot of average Americans. You individuals drinking the Obama koolaide should do a little research on Stalin, Marx and the communist Manifesto. I am middle of the road and no Republican but spreading the wealth to those who sit on their A## is not my idea of a Democracy.

Another classic & clear example of the ignorance & threats from the "wealthy class" - this time brought to you by "Scott: a millionaire investment advisor"(note: wealthy & class used very loosely here - as it seems he has neither).  Using the only thing they thinks they have as a control / weapon (money) over others in an attempt to harm.  I can see Scott now on the floor kicking & screaming! Scott assures us "that every dollar Obama raises my taxes will be met by a corresponding cut in payroll at my company."  Now, I don't know you own this company Scott but if you have any class, you'll start with reducing your own income.  In fact, from the sound of it - the company you work for would be much better without you as companies these days want people with a lot more ingenuity - someone to figure out how to improve profits & move forward, while retaining the employees & skills they've invested in.

Hmmm...charity w/ another man's money - public transportation, public education.  Do you drive on our public roads Scott?  Did you obtain a public education?

Obama wants to redistribute wealth....plain and simple. He wants to dip into the piggy bank of every hard working American and be our banker. He is the picture of socialism. His policies will discourage job growth and encourage the growth of a welfare state. In his perfect world, the government runs every facet of your life. So far the government had ruined Social Security.....ruined the education system.....ruined the banking system and if Obama gets his way it will ruin our healthcare system. How can any sane person even consider putting this naive, inexperienced socialist into office.....

Jeff - newsflash: hardworking Americans no longer have a piggy bank to be dipped into...most are living paycheck to paycheck as it is, if they even have a job anymore.  We've already experienced the huge failures of trickle down economics - it's time for trickle up.

Hey OB

If you have no piggy bank to dip into that's your problem not anyone elses. You have obviously been doing the same thing as our Democratic controlled house and all the idiots on the hill for that matter and have been living above your means.You dam Democrats always want a tax payer funded handout.

OB...The last person who tried "trickle up" economics was Jimmy Carter. If you don't remeber his "trickle up" policies resulted in over 12% inflation and mortgage rates at 21%. It was a disaster and Obama's taking us down the same road. The man has never been in charge of anything in his life...He has  a "spread the wealth" mentality that will destroy the country.

OB...the last great president to espouse the "trickle up" theory was Jimmy Carter. The only thing that went up was inflation...over 12% and mortgage rates...over 20% . Why not just get a job and let your own money "trickle up" instead of mine. Why do you need Obama to give you your "trickle up" money. Can't you make it on your own...C'mon, be a man and take some responsibility for yourself.....

Don't know why ole Joe is worried about his taxes, as he apparently doesn't pay them: Bloomberg news reports:

By Ryan J. Donmoyer

Oct. 16 (Bloomberg) -- ``Joe the plumber,'' the Toledo,

Ohio, man whose complaints about Barack Obama's tax plan were

featured in the final presidential debate, owes the state of Ohio

almost $1,200 in back income taxes.

According to records on file with the Lucas County Court of

Common Pleas, the state filed a tax lien against Samuel J.

Wurzelbacher for $1,182.98 on Jan. 26, 2007, that is still

active.

Wurzelbacher was thrust into the national spotlight this

week when he told Obama he worried that the Illinois senator's

proposals to roll back Bush administration tax breaks for

Americans earning more than $250,000 would prevent him from

buying a plumbing business that would earn between $250,000 and

$280,000 a year.

Jeff & Scott:

Let's have a bit of perspective here.  Obama is not talking about raising taxes to the progressive levels (50%-70%)that existed during many of the decades in the last century.  We are talking about reducing taxes for middle class and raising taxes on the rich by 3% from 36% to 39%.   Many wealthy taxpayers make as much on their money as they do on their labor, so they are already getting a huge break by having lower capital gains taxes.  I don't know about you, but I think the tax system should reward hard work more than  capital gains.  

Cary,

Lets keep in mind tax cuts for the middle class has been the mantra for every politician regardless of political affiliation as long as I can remember....It never happens and never will. Just like Roe V Wade getting over turned It will never happen no matter who is in office.They like our money...they think it is theirs.

the republicans have already been doing an excellent job of redistributing wealth into the hands of s&l execs (keating), oil company execs (enron), and mortgage execs (fannie may and lehman) thanks to the deregulation spearheaded by mccain.

c'mon Joe, you can be a better person & think outside that partisan sphere you depend on - no?  If an individual doesn't have savings, it's just not their problem, it's yours & it's our systems/societies - that's basic microeconomics. Anything which effects an individual's purchasing power, in turn effects your own & societies.  People & products are kept out of the "free" market all the time. It's sure easy to put the blame back on persons without the "right" last name, skin, hair or eye color, background connections, gender, bank account numbers, religion, etc.  Rather than making more ignorant statements & conclusions - go back, wipe out your wrong assumptions & rethink. Perhaps you might just find something useful to say.  BTW - not a Democrat, nor looking for a handout - just a true & fair playing field is ok with me.

John both parties have been doing that. Ahhh need I say Barney Frank Democrat Mass. There is plent of blame to go around for All Parties on the Hill.

Cary..why tax capital gains. The money you invested has already been taxed once. We can only invest take-home pay that has been taxed....Now the government taxes it again...If the capital gains tax was reduced or eliminated you would see the economy soar...more jobs would be created...more people would make over $250,000 so Obama would have a larger pool of people to steal from in his "spread the wealth"  plan.

jeff,

So, only those that make $250,000 are hard working Americans and the rest (those making under $250,000) just sit on their a**es.  Obama's tax cuts go to WORKING people making under $200,000.

Right.

Jeff - you clearly have no idea how trickle up economics would work.  The Carter admin didn't try nor institute trickle-up.  From my understanding, the inflation of the 1970's, started during Nixon's term & was caused by the high unemployment, along w/ rising prices,  along with all the oil issues (OPEC slashing supplies, Iran Revolution, etc.) & our dependence on oil from that region (hmmm...something familiar).  It continued throughout the Nixon, Ford & Carter & Reagan admins.

Now, what's so scary to you about "spreading the wealth" exactly?  Will your greedy paws become paralyzed from not touching a certain amount of green inked paper?  Will you're anger seethe so violently that others might have the same comforts as you without having to work as "hard" as you (in your distorted, egotistical view)?  You even say it will "destroy the country" - wow...haha, you resort to that & then try to attack me - as if you have any clue.  Desperate, pathetic fool.

Typical Republican game to try and win...always dirty pool

OB...they "spread the wealth" in Cuba, China, the old Soviet Union and North Korea. My point is simple. Let people who work keep their money. Why should those who choose not to work as hard as me be entilted to my sweat. I belive in using tax money to build roads, proects our countruy with a strong military, fund public works projects, etc. I believe the disabled and infirmed should be cared for. But I don't believe that someone who chooses not to participate in the economy should free load off my efforts. I really don't understand where you are coming from. This is the real world dude.....learn to deal with it.....

All,

I am the average angry white man, who makes well under $75,000 per year.

I saw a statement earlier about reducing the taxes for the middle class.  Obama is stating that taxes will be lower for us.  McCain wants to extend the same tax policy that we currently have for the middle class.  I have actually been researching this.  Our current middle tax rates are in line with where they were when Reagan was President.  When Clinton took office they almost doubled.  Most experts predict that taxes on the middle class will return to where they were in the Clinton era if Obama's plan is implemented.  It would remain low if Mccain's plan were implemented.

The reason for the difference:

Obama will let all of Bush's tax cuts expire.  

Mccain wants to extend these tax breaks.

My biggest problem with Obama:

His Pro-Abortion Record.

He claims to be Christian.  Any man that calls being pregnant, a punishment and not a blessing from God is not Christian.  He will be signing the Freedom of Choice Act into law, which repeals any existing state laws preventing abortions-NOT A CHRISTIAN!  

Everytime I hear him speak, I cringe.  He is a smooth talker and promises a lot of things that are absolute lies.  Our media is in love with him.

He doesn't care one bit about the average American.

All you people here who don't have a problem if the big bad rich guy has to pay more taxes.  You need to do some research on how much the big bad rich guy already pays in taxes.  The more you make the more they take.  I am not a rich person.  My hubby has his own business.  Last year we made a little bit more money but wound up having to give almost half of it away.   It is unbelievable to me that some people have to give almost half of their income to the government. And that's just income taxes, not even talking about all the other taxes we pay.  I don't have a problem with people being taxed, but lets be real here.  

What is a "millionaire investor" doing trolling the blogs? Also, a company that can afford to cut payroll based on tax cuts can't be running very lean? You should need every employee you got!

Some of you people here are only here to find reasons to not like and vote for Obama. Like Reagan said, "Are you better off now than you were [8] years ago?". Clinton left his term when the economy was at its best. The last 8 years of not raising taxes, deregulation, and greed has led to this economy downfall. Can you smart Republicans explain to me what happened?

Also, if you NET $250K then you'll be taxed. If your business makes $500K gross, but after expenses only gets $200K...you'll get a tax break. Under Obama, if you create jobs...you get a tax break. If you provide health care...you get a tax break. You uninformed conservatives are just creating radical excuses to not vote for a man who is black. If McCain dies, do you think Palin would do much better? I think not!

Obama/Biden 08.

Wow!  What a sorry dialogue.  Let me say, I am what Obama considers "wealthy" and every penny I earn is hard and tedious.  I am taxed to death simply because I don't earn enough to protect it with IRS and congressional hideaways.  Those are saved for the democratic congressional buyouts to line their pockets.  For you less than informed, check it out!  CONGRESS sets the budget and for the last 8 blasted years it's been run by the democrats, not the republicans! Year after year we heard (oh sorry, you are not allowed to hear a thing when you only listen to the left wing press and you are too simple to actually get other information to prove or disprove your crazy theories)  Anyway, we HAVE heard about the wall street, banking, and housing scams - you've just been too simple to listen.  There have been cries since the mid 90s about the issue (oh wait, that was Clinton times and you were too busy excusing his disgusting behavior that would have landed Joe the Plumber in jail!)  That’s ok, while you were focused on that, he took your future – read up, check it out.  Absolutely true.  He signed into law the bill that forced FANNIE and FREDDIE to give you that loan I am now paying for. That’s ok, because Billy boy was doing that, Obama was suing the pants off of a bank for not giving loans to folks that had too much of a credit risk.  

For what it is worth, I also cut my pay to keep my folks.  Just because I own a business does not mean that my compassion and humanity did not disappear. There are more than 4 million small businesses in this country - here's a hard one for you (you need to spell it correctly too) Look up "S" Corporation fools. Those businesses employ more than 48% of your sorry asses.  Ask them what they will need to do.  I know what I need to do - I can't get any more small business loans - I am forced to lay off 6 folks tomorrow.  I have been physically ill all week about this - oh yea, and I am not clearing near the 250k you think I am with the business expenses I have for health, space, licensing, taxes, etc.  From the looks of things, I won’t be either.  I have absolutely no incentive to hire a single person.  You know, it actually hurts tremendously to have to let them go so why put myself through that.  If I can turn things around, and I will eventually, my plan is to stay small enough to eek my living and forgo working to support my community with jobs.  Most of you aren’t worth my sleepless nights anyway – you’ve nothing but distain for folks like me that employ folks like you just because you THINK I live high off the hog.  Ok, I can do just fine with 249k or whatever Obama lowers my income to – you can all fend for yourselves.  

Government takeover?  Oh yea, there is lots of it.  Want to control spending they say, yea right.  Last year in the state of VA 1.5b was received in federal dollars for taking children by DSS.  Budget cuts across the state have seen an exponential increase in "abuse and neglect" they say.  What they really mean is that a preponderance of evidence is too broad and to keep the budget steady means simply more kids.  Don't believe me, do another Google on false allegations, DSS and then comment.  I'd hate to rub your nose in your sanctimonious retorts, so be warned.

Before you assume and end up with the fate of the meaning of ASS out of U to ME coming true, read, become informed.  Folks, stop the Kool-Aid, it's clouding your judgment.  Use Google occasionally and do a little research.  Oh wait, you are too busy sitting on your bottoms waiting for the Obama handout.  How pathetic.

Jeff - are you making this up? "Cuba, China, the old Soviet Union and North Korea" did/do not have trickle up economies - they're not even close examples.  Please research trickle up effect & we can then have a meaningful discussion about it. It's neither socialism, communism, nor a hand-out. Aside from doing away with income tax all together (and the IRS), I'd like to see lowering the amount of income taxes on middle & lower classes & close the hundreds of legal loopholes, rebates, kickbacks, etc. corps. & wealthy individuals take advantage of in order to skip out on their fair share.  This Joe guy is said to have $1,200 outstanding in taxes. Well, besides it being 2-faced - who cares?  How about the $4.4M personal income tax that Michael S Fitzsimmons is delinquent on in CA?  Or the $3.28M Sarkis Karadjian is delinquent? Or the $604K TW Brown Oil Inc. is delinquent?  The list is huge - & the numbers are astronomical.  Priorities people!  It's the same thing with news reporting on "crime" & court shows - it's always the "small guy", hardly ever the corp. white collar thieves stealing millions - which has much more effect on us vs. the other & happens with much more frequency than will ever allow to be admitted.  When it is - watch the huge disparity  in treatment & procedure.  It's jaw dropping.  A "prime" example just happened in front of our eyes with this $750B bail-out.  How about all those small businesses & individuals that weren't able to pull through?  What happens to them?  Nope, handouts & pardons for club members only.  And what did we do about it? <cue crickets>

Do you truly think those that work hard are paid more (there's a plethora of examples that prove otherwise) or are you just trolling?  If we're to operate under the existing tax code we have to collectively agree on which programs to fund.  I personally think helping others in unfortunate &  unfair circumstances elevates us all - much more than our traffic-ridden, pot hole, jammed highways do.  Not all of us are given the same opportunities in life.  Most only want a fair shot & like you, to keep their money.  However, our system has many holes to patch & with the mass concentration/stealing of wealth that has occurred over the course of this past decade - there's a lot of work to be done to get it back on track.

You say: "This is the real world dude.....learn to deal with it....." well, I'm happy to not view the world as you do.

Simple American Woman - You're hilarious. I only scanned through your novel. If you so call have an "S" corporation that hires sorry asses and has to take out small business loans to pay your employees, eh...you deserve what you got. My advice to you...hire someone who is more knowledgeable to manage your business. ;) I, on the other hand, am young and doing quite well. You can google this...haha.

Anonymous: You are so funny!  I am still laughing, sorry that is at you, not with you.  You really have no clue, do you?  AS a business, you need credit to keep your vendors happy - you need credit to even get health care contracts in place for your folks.  It's simple math - no new contracts, no new dollars rolling in. No new dollars simply equals credit uncertainty.

For what it is worth, I have never used a loan to pay my folks, I used loans to show liquidity and credit reliability.  Now that has dried up and without the liquidity aspect, I can't guarantee the future of the business enough to keep my folks. You have a mortgage, when's the last time you checked your credit score?  Creditors check your scores regularly to make sure you are credit worthy.  

You know what is most interesting is that none of my folks even thought of blaming me for the economic down turn that caused this outcome. They actually blame folks like you with a greedy hand and absolutely no future.  

Oh, don't get me wrong, my business will continue - I am just too good at it.  I just won't be hiring you.  Instead, all of us, including the folks I have to release are independent consultants now - all working to keep our net income below your microscope so that we can live free of your grubby hands.  Like I said, I will do much better with 249k than I was doing with a multi-million dollar business.  With Obama on the up and up – oh wait, last night he slipped, he actually said 200k didn’t he.  Ok, 199k is good too.  I still get to go out to eat once in a while.

Oh, by the way, corp greed has never been founded against us small guys in the “S” Corp world, that would be the “C” Corp world.  Believe it or not, we are simply doing what we can to develop ourselves to our greatest potential.  If we can do that with a few other folks, it is actually quite fulfilling.  You've just proven that it can and is often in vain.  

Simple American Woman:

You seem too blinded by your partisan view. Perhaps you should be more creative in finding a way to grow your business & keep your employees rather than spending this precious, last minute & life altering time blogging & searching google (btw- nice plug for them, if you're smart - you're getting paid by mentioning them - let us know if you're "smart").

People are overly eager to grow & increase their business profits.  So much so, they make stupid risks - willing to take out loans from banks they're unable to repay when hard times hit.  How about no credit & growing slow & natural with the flow of supply & demand?  So unusual, huh?

Still not a Dem or Obama supporter.  I think the income tax bracket for small business incomes could be raised higher though (say to $500K).  $250K is low on business scales.

OB:  No, believe it or not, I am not thinking in a partisan view.  Oh yea, read please.  The loans were taken for liquidity only - we didn't actually use those lines of credit.  As a result, I am STILL in business and will do quite well.  Slow you say, how's 10 years and purposefully not growing fast.  I wanted sound.

I take few risks, especially when there are others depending on me. We will all be fine, just not a unit under one umbrella - sad, but reality.  

We are having a party tomorrow though, all have gotten their small business license - they are all consultants now.  And very good ones at that.  Can you say business model change?  Consortium is the way to go for all of us.  We want to keep our money - we actually worked for it.  

Simple American Woman:

good, I'm glad you're doing well & hopefully the change will be positive for those you've had to change contract structures with & your business model.  I wish you good luck!

"OB:  No, believe it or not, I am not thinking in a partisan view.  Oh yea, read please."

SAW - these all looked like partisan rhetoric to me:

"Year after year we heard (oh sorry, you are not allowed to hear a thing when you only listen to the left wing press and you are too simple to actually get other information to prove or disprove your crazy theories"

"(oh wait, that was Clinton times and you were too busy excusing his disgusting behavior that would have landed Joe the Plumber in jail!)"

"That’s ok, because Billy boy was doing that, Obama was suing the pants off of a bank for not giving loans to folks that had too much of a credit risk."

"Oh wait, you are too busy sitting on your bottoms waiting for the Obama handout."

Rhetoric means saying something that is unsubstantiated, in other words, false or likely to be false.  Check it out, all of the comments I wrote and you referred to are very much substantiated.  Oh, sorry, have to say it… you might want to “do a Google search.”  <smiling>

SAW: where are you coming up with that as definition of rhetoric?  looks like you need to follow your own advice:

www.google.com/search

You attempt to persuade in one direction - towards dems/libs being bad.  If you weren't being partisan your rhetoric would've been different (from the adjectives you chose to describe actions to perhaps mixing in some of the republican/right wing slime that takes place to balance it out).

To Simple American Woman:

Simple is right!!!If you are not "clearing near $250,000" then your taxes will not go up, DUH! Tax tables are applied to taxable income, not gross!!! And I AM a tax accountant.

And thank you for defining rhetoric, but one only needs to read your posts for an example.

Sick of Idiots?  Wow?  I don't remember you doing my taxes, nor did I ever mention that I made less than 250k.  Let's see, since you are an accountant.  "S" Corp, means pass through.  My salary, the profit margin from my business - oh yea, that was 279k last year.  Yup, that fits the scenario all right.

You might be referring to my decision to scale back my business, lessoning my profit margin and netting less than 250k.  In fact, I said, 249k - don't want to hurt your prescious accountant brain, but that decision keeps me out of the microscope of "wealthy" and allows me to keep at least 3% more than I did last year.  Works for me!

OB:  In case you hadn't noticed, I am enjoying myself.  I like bumping against idiots, especially when I am in a bad mood.  This is actually quite cathartic in light of this past week's outcomes.

Truth is not rhetoric.  Bill Clinton was in office when he signed the bill for the Community Reinvestment Act - that is the bill that caused this problem today.  Billy boy was very likely not paying attention - after all, he had to find a dress to dry-clean.  The Dems have been in control of Congress these last 8 years and they have not allowed any debate on the floor regarding the economy. I call that criminal - I know, you don't.  Breach of Public Trust is serious to me though.  Oh yea, Obama did sue CitiCorp along with many others with a bogus racial lawsuit and won. Forget that one group though, ACORN is it?  Oh yea, they have a stellar reputation now don't they?  Oh, I could go on, but you would only call it rhetoric.  

Nope, not Rhetoric, all truth.  Sorry that they happen to be Dems, but it's simple fact.  Yes, there are Republicans that are just as bad, but they didn't happen to sit in control of the finance, oversite, and monitoring committees.  Can't, they weren't the party in control.

I have to tell you though, I am mad as hell over this bail out package.  A minimum of $2500 in extra taxes PLUS Obama's tax increase is just more than I care to contribute to the cause.  Patriotic does have its limits.  I would much rather see my children complete the college education I've worked hard to prepare for than to see another cent go to a government out of control.

Funny, I am independent - voting republican this year, voted democratic in the past. I just can't buy into Obama's socialist views - he scares me.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I will just quit while I am ahead, make a few less thousand on my reported income next year and live just fine with my many greenbacks and no grubby hands.  Hey accountant guy - we are doing this now so that I don't have that reported income - my folks were thinking of me too.  We found a way, with our poor accounting skills to use severance as a business expense - it brings me to a projected net of just 247k this year.  Imagine that!

Unfortunately, last night he distinctly said 200k - not to worry though, I will figure that out too - 47k is not all that difficult to "lose" now is it - our wonderful government does it all the time.

Watch for a send-up of Joe the Plumber and McCain on the next SNL, which is where they both belong. Let's not shed any tears over Joe and his higher taxes. He'll be sitting pretty throughout the recession. Hiring a plumber isn't a discretionary expenditure. If you need one, you'll hire one regardless of what the economy's doing. And for all his whining about being penalized for trying to reach the American Dream, Joe's no poster boy for those who are trying to do the same. Appearing on a talk show this morning, Joe said that when he asked Obama about his taxes, Obama "tap danced" around the issue "like Sammy Davis Jr." Apparently he thinks an African-American who aspires to the office of the presidency is as laughable as a dancing ape. He may not even be aware that his remark was racist, which is the most frightening part of this sorry episode.

Simple you said

"I don't remember you doing my taxes, nor did I ever mention that I made less than 250k.  Let's see, since you are an accountant.  "S" Corp, means pass through.  My salary, the profit margin from my business - oh yea, that was 279k last year."

"I have been physically ill all week about this - oh yea, and I am not clearing near the 250k you think I am with the business expenses I have for health, space, licensing, taxes, etc."

Sick of Idiots is right. BTW, If you are going to Lie, write it down.

Jill:  Please, do a bit of research - you just slighted one of the greatest dancers of our time.  Sammy actually did do it all, sing, dance, tell jokes, improvise.... you name it.

Racist?  Please, I don't think so! Are we so arrogant now that we have to take real and true comparisons and slight them to prove a tired point?  Who's being racist?

Not a lie, truth - we are talking about my projected income for 2008.  In 2007 it was 279k that I netted on MY taxes, the pass through was very low... <laughing> it's all those suposed write-offs I guess.  Unfortunately though, this year it seems that that will be just a little bit too much - so, the layoffs, the consortium, and reduction in my bottom line.  Do the math, 279-247=37 less than last year.  Not too bad for me, with projected 3% savings...

Keep trying, facts are still facts.

Yes, he's a Republican plumber in the Nixonian tradition.

I stopped listening to SAW when she said that the Democrats have run Congress for the past 8 years.  On what planet?  The Democrats got a simple majority in Congress for the first time in 12 years less than 2 years ago.  If you tell someone to do their research, and then immediately follow it by proof that you have no idea what you're talking about, nobody's going to listen to anything you say.

What is wrong with the media???? you are so intent in getting Obama elected you are willing to ruin someones life/career.

Whether "Joe the plumber" is an actual plumber or not, who cares! "Joe" is not the one that will very possibly destroy this country. You have spent more time researching "Joe" than you spent researching/investigating Obama? There are still many unexplained issues in Obama's past that you all seem to so happy to let it all slide by and focus on destroying those that don't always agree with you. I truly am embarrassed to admit that I'm a democrat. The democratic party's behavior is childish/unprofessional with the mentality of let's get them before they get us....even if their information is false. Democrats want "TOTAL" control and will do and say whatever it takes to get it. Well this democrat is not voting for Obama, I will definitely vote for McCain as I fear for our country if the "left" takes control. You are not reporting things fairly, you pollute the air and use any little thing you can to slam McCain.

I certainly hope that the "media" and democratic party grow up and stop behaving like a spoiled child that doesn't get it's way!!!

For not listening to me, there are an awful lot of comments attempting to do to me what you did to poor Joe for voicing a real concern.  That's ok, step into the evil side, be prepared to fight.  Oh yea, did I say that I was?  You fool, 2 years ago, they, for the first time in 12 years, took control of BOTH houses.  In fact, all of the economic downturns were democraticlly controlled, imagine that! The Republicans took control of the House in 2001 - oops, that would be AFTER the stock crash of 2000.  The Republicans had control of the house for 4 years until 2007 when the Democrats took control of BOTH, not just one, houses. Hmmmmm. Are you that unfamiliar with your government?  Gosh that really scares me.  

Nevertheless, I am not a party hack, I am a small business owner - telling the truth about the realities I face and what I see as the reason why.  Did we not just come up with 850b to bail out the congressional greed and wall street?  Pissed?  Hell yea I am.

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check this site out:  http://arts.bev.net/ roperldavid/politics /PartyControl.htm

Oh wait!  There's more!

101st Congress (1989-1991)

Majority Party: Democrat (55 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (45 seats)

Other Parties: 0

Total Seats: 100

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102nd Congress (1991-1993)

Majority Party: Democrat (56 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (44 seats)

Other Parties: 0

Total Seats: 100

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103rd Congress (1993-1995)

Majority Party: Democrat (57 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (43 seats)

Other Parties: 0

Total Seats: 100

Note: Party division changed to 56 Democrats and 44 Republicans after the June 5, 1993 election of Kay B. Hutchison (R-TX).

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104th Congress (1995-1997)

Majority Party: Republican (52 seats)

Minority Party: Democrat (48 seats)

Other Parties: 0

Total Seats: 100

Note: Party ratio changed to 53 Republicans and 47 Democrats after Richard Shelby of Alabama switched from the Democratic to Republican party on November 9, 1994. It changed again, to 54 Republicans and 46 Democrats, when Ben Nighthorse Campbell of Colorado switched from the Democratic to Republican party on March 3, 1995. When Robert Packwood (R-OR) resigned on October 1, 1995, the Senate divided between 53 Republicans and 46 Democrats with one vacancy. Ron Wyden (D) returned the ratio to 53 Republicans and 47 Democrats when he was elected to fill the vacant Oregon seat.

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105th Congress (1997-1999)

Majority Party: Republican (55 seats)

Minority Party: Democrat (45 seats)

Other Parties: 0

Total Seats: 100

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106th Congress (1999-2001)

Majority Party: Republican (55 seats)

Minority Party: Democrat (45 seats)

Other Parties: 0

Total Seats: 100

Note: As the 106th Congress began, the division was 55 Republican seats and 45 Democratic seats, but this changed to 54-45 on July 13, 1999 when Senator Bob Smith of New Hampshire switched from the Republican party to Independent status. On November 1, 1999, Smith announced his return to the Republican party, making the division once more 55 Republicans and 45 Democrats. Following the death of Senator Paul Coverdell (R-GA) on July 18, 2000, the balance shifted again, to 54 Republicans and 46 Democrats, when the governor appointed Zell Miller, a Democrat, to fill the vacancy.

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107th Congress (2001-2003)

Majority Party (Jan 3-20, 2001): Democrat (50 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (50 seats)

Other Parties: 0

Total Seats: 100

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Majority Party (Jan 20-June 6, 2001): Republican (50 seats)

Minority Party: Democrat (50 seats)

Other Parties: 0

Total Seats: 100

----------------------------------------

Majority Party (June 6, 2001-November 12, 2002 --): Democrat (50 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (49 seats)

Other Parties: 1

Total Seats: 100

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Majority Party (November 12, 2002 - January 3, 2003): Republican (50 seats)

Minority Party: Democrat (48 seats)

Other Parties: 2

Total Seats: 100

Note: From January 3 to January 20, 2001, with the Senate divided evenly between the two parties, the Democrats held the majority due to the deciding vote of outgoing Democratic Vice President Al Gore. Senator Thomas A. Daschle served as majority leader at that time. Beginning on January 20, 2001, Republican Vice President Richard Cheney held the deciding vote, giving the majority to the Republicans. Senator Trent Lott resumed his position as majority leader on that date. On May 24, 2001, Senator James Jeffords of Vermont announced his switch from Republican to Independent status, effective June 6, 2001. Jeffords announced that he would caucus with the Democrats, giving the Democrats a one-seat advantage, changing control of the Senate from the Republicans back to the Democrats. Senator Thomas A. Daschle again became majority leader on June 6, 2001. Senator Paul D. Wellstone (D-MN) died on October 25, 2002, and Independent Dean Barkley was appointed to fill the vacancy. The November 5, 2002 election brought to office elected Senator James Talent (R-MO), replacing appointed Senator Jean Carnahan (D-MO), shifting balance once again to the Republicans -- but no reorganization was completed at that time since the Senate was out of session.  

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108th Congress (2003-2005)

Majority Party: Republican (51 seats)

Minority Party:  Democrat (48 seats)

Other Parties: Independent (1 seat)

Total Seats: 100

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109th Congress (2005-2007)

Majority Party: Republican (55 seats)

Minority Party:  Democrat (44 seats)

Other Parties: Independent (1 seat)

Total Seats: 100

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110th Congress (2007-2009)

Majority Party: Democrat (49 seats)

Minority Party:  Republican (49 seats)

Other Parties: 1Independent; 1 Independent Democrat

Total Seats: 100

Note: Senator Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut was reelected in 2006 as an Independent, and became an Independent Democrat. Senator Bernard Sanders of Vermont was elected as an Independent.

You go Tante Arl!  I couldn't agree more - it amazed me how the hacks did what they do best and immediately slammed his integrity and honesty.  Man, talk about desperation!  The man has 90 minutes of fame and over shadows Obama and BAM!  It's all over for him.

What difference does it make?  He's a simple person doing an honest day's job.  He wants to make more and actually believed he could.  That is, until Obama stepped into the picture and told him - sorry white man, I have an inner city poor, and very likely ethnic person, that deserves it more than you, hand it over.  I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh sorry OB, by your crazy definition, this is all rhetoric too I guess.. I actually want to sway folks into what is reality and not this silly delusion of victimization by us so called "rich" folks.  

Next thing they are going to accuse me of being white too!

Going to bed now, got 6 layoffs to do in the morning. How's that for filthy rich?  I get to make and follow-through with some very tough decisions – no amount of money in the world is worth this.  How about you? I know, glad it’s Friday and can’t wait for your coveted check.  Let me ask, do anything for your company lately to ensure it stays afloat?

From Simple American Woman (Sarah Palin, is that you?)

"What difference does it make?  He's a simple person doing an honest day's job.  He wants to make more and actually believed he could."  

He's a tax dodging Republican with no plumber's license. Honest? I don't think so. He fits in perfectly with the McCain-Palin campaign.

Not to be a jerk, but I'm going to be a jerk. "Tap dancing" around a question is a standard, accepted figure of speech. Now, off the top of your head without googling, name me a tap dancer. Personally, the first three that come to mind are Sammy Davis Jr., Gregory Hines and Savion Glover.

So would you have felt any different if he had said Savion Glover?

Simple American Woman: I would not want to work for your sorry ass of a so called employer. Seriously, you do not know how to manage and grow your company at all. Period.

Uh...yeah S corps are pass through corporations but the corporation should've maintain some money for emergency funds. Comeon' you're supposed to be smart. Now with you're so call $279K profit, you should've not been so damn greedy and set aside some money for the corporation. With this money, here's a little free advice...you should've hired a knowledgeable financial planner and invested that money and then use the interest and principal to help sustain your business through tough times like these of today. But oops...you're just too stupid as a S corp owner to even do this. Almost sounds like you're operating like a sole-proprietorship...keeping all the money and none for your "corporation".

You are inept that's why you're laying off 6 employees tomorrow. If you somehow couldn't afford a financial planner or did not invest your money successfully with your so-called profit, you are a damn lie hiding behind the internet.

Now you're going downhill with this economy as you so deserve because of greed. You've been OWNED! I'm so tired of listening to ignorant people.  

Simple American Woman: I just noticed you replied numerous times before. Umm...no wonder you're laying off 6 people. Quit googling nonsense and go actually do your "S" corp some good. Goodness gracious.

Good Morning!

You know, you all amaze me.  You've done my taxes, you're better at managing a business, and you're all really good at deciding how and where I went "wrong" in my business.  Oh yea, not to forget that I am "greedy" and used my income and profit unwisely.  I am a "heartless" business owner that uses her staff as stepping stools. Sorry, keep forgetting that. So, why don't you own a business that helps the economy by employing folks in the community?

Heck, as a business owner, I'm not even allowed to use an evening to banter instead of sitting on my ass to watch your stupidity come through silently.

"He's a tax dodging Republican with no plumber's license. Honest? I don't think so. He fits in perfectly with the McCain-Palin campaign."

Hey, stick this in your pipes and smoke it (no racial slur intended) - If he owes the money to the IRS, he is definately not a tax dodger!

Honest?  You know nothing about an apprentise, do you?  Oh wait, that would mean that you took the time to actualy back up your slurs with a couple of facts.  Can't do that, hate is not built on facts, it's built on ignorance. Which you folks on this site have plenty of.

Have a good day and a nice life hating those of us that have figured out how to do more than you.  I, on the other hand, am going into work to do a nasty job and at the same time make it work for all concerned.

Oh, by the way - I am a tax dodger, that's why I am doing this.  I REFUSE to make money for your grubby hands to take from me.  I like the idea of scaling back - I actually net more in the end and so do my folks.  Heck, we are ALL tax dodgers.  Only we are doing a bit better than poor Joe, we figured out how not to owe it in the first place.  His misely $1200 is going to cost him more than $5k when the IRS is done with him.  Oh yea, that's a good fiscal plan isn't it?  

In short... google this...

Time to keep all of the money folks. Start a 501(c)(3) organization and make yourself a member of the Board of Directors. Pay yourself a very small salary, but make sure that the organization is headquartered in a nice rural setting and live there. I'm sure you'll need an aircraft and a boat to entertain all of your large donors, as well.

While your at it start a farm and get paid not to raise pigs, grow rice or produce a damn thing. When a hurricane (or drought, flood, tornando, wild fire, etc...) occurs anywhere nearby file for your emergency assistance, whether you need it or not)

Life can be so rewarding if you just apply yourself...

"SPREAD THE WEALTH, SPREAD THE WEALTH, SPREAD THE WEALTH...sorry, I just wanted to remind everyone of the real reason the Obama campaign is trying to ruin Joe. Joe unknowingly exposed Obama. Obama wasn't supposed to come right out and say it. But he did. He revealed the true objective of all dems. Take from those hard working folk and spread the wealth to those who cannot be bothered to be successful on their own.  

Spreading the wealth is the same as enabling those who cannot be bothered to earn their own success. Why do some people think they are entitled to getting a check for doing nothing? It’s pathetic. To those who think spreading the wealth is a good idea…you are not incapable of making your own wealth. EVERYONE is capable. Stop looking to others and it is not up to the government to decide how much money people should give away.  Obama’s plan will either remove incentive to make money or force businesses to move, BOTH lead to less jobs, less money, less tax money floating around for the government to assign. McCain’s plan is to increase incentive, build businesses, increase jobs, increase taxes (not in percentage per business, but in growth through more businesses and increased productivity). Obama’s plan is good only for those who have no faith in their own ability to be successful. McCain’s plan is better for the country.

ps to those who really care about who Joe's associated to, get in line. I'm still waiting for a response from Obama about William Ayers, ACORN, Nadhami Auchi, Tony Rezko, Rev. Wright, M. Marzook, Farrakhan, Obongo Obama, Allison Davis,

Odinga.

Hey…here’s a funny aside…Obama could never get a government job in the CIA, FBI or secret service simply because of his associations. How ironic is that?

This is what baffles me: These dirt poor conservatives march around the Internet, concoct some egregious story and conveniently mold themselves in this make-belief fairy tale of decaying business "owner" to persuade the impressionable minds.

Here's where SAW's story falls on its face of confusion; SAW fabricated a story that she made $280k last year, net. Now she is scaling back for whatever reason (i.e. credits but odd because according to her, she is just too "good" at what she does [Ya right!]) and laying off "6" people while she is running her net down to match barely below $250k.

For a small business to lay off 6 people as she suggests, it's a clear sign of incompetence in her role as a business owner -- but then again, we all thought she is "one of the best" at what she does *scuff*. Not only that, if she manages to keep her income at $280k like before, under Obama's plan, an increase of 3% in taxes would render her net after taxes to $183k. Now she is insidiously trimming it down to $249k which gets no tax change (i.e. 36%) and would pocket $160k.

Hmm... So she rather drops down her net to below $250 to forgo "$23,000" of profit "after" taxes ($183k - $160k)!!! When liars are caught red handed stuck in a cookie jar... Most importantly, the majority of businesses would have some venue or source of investment that would cushion them against unexpected by retaining interests and what not. Moreover, she could have expanded or reinvested whatever ceiling she makes over $250k to avoid the extra taxes under Obama and at the same time keep her employees -- at least most of them.

It's very interesting to see how all of a sudden all these "businesses" are popping out that the owner makes somewhere between $240k and $260... very peculiar.

elion,

Good point, but I think you made a small error by stating the after tax net income of $183,000. It's actually $170,000; you perhaps multiply $300k but your premise still persists. She should retain an extra $11,000 (rather than $23,000) despite the tax increase instead of dropping the net below $250,000. Bottom line is that it's her lose and her employees. Perhaps she really needs to consult a financial adviser. A growing business like what she has devised should never retract from the expansion due to misery 3% increase in S corp. tax bracket. I rather make $1 million and give 3% in additional taxes than cut back below $250,000 just to superficially escape the tax jump. It's just silly.

Ok folks you are really looking hard to find something wrong and you all got it wrong yourselves - 279k NET IS/WAS my taxable income - you are assuming that the 279k is company gross.  The difference is tax dodging to keep it in my pocket and out of yours. So my NET drops to 249k, my business does not necessarily change and I get to say what I think about OBAMA with my own money that he, under his policy, can do nothing about.

Wow, accusing me of lying still... worthless and tired montra, but very familiar. Like I said, poor joe. You are just pissed that some of us can't be had by OBAMA et al.

I'm sorry, just figured out something - I said in an earlier post that I am not clearing new the 250k one would think.  Clearing and making are two different things - I pay out a lot too.  I have three children, all went to college.  On the last one finally, the annual expenses are down considerably - only about 25k now - last year, there was 2 in college.  Along with that expense (after tax of course) comes the vehicles, living expenses, wow, the cost is considerable.  We don't qualify for tax breaks, college breaks, most scholarships - "we are too wealthy." What we have is high income and an expectation that we can just pay for everything out of pocket as a result.  When all is said and done, we make less than most of you - disposable income is greatly eaten up with what most feel we can easily cover.

Anyway, enough said.  If you haven't lived in these shoes, there is no possible way for you to even have a clue.  Either because you don't want to, or because you are incapable.  Either way, I doubt that you would find yourselves having to worry about higher taxes...  You too are dodging, only I can still hold my head up for having tried.

September 1930 unemployment at 3 million, manufacturing down 17%, bankruptcies up, farmers down, the middle-class feared becoming lower class.  The National Socialists looked good because they believed in something & wanted radical change compared to the opposition. They called for renewal, they promised jobs & bread.  They were young & on the move.

Now the economy is the worst since Charter's 21% interest rate, 13.5% inflation, and 7% unemployment.  Bankruptcies are up and the retired middle class, having lost everything in the markets, slip into the lower class.

Barack Obama, socialist, is looking good because he wants change that differs from the Republicans.  He is clling for renewal, promising jobs & bread to the poor.  He is young and on the move.  He strikes at what is described as the "Jewish aspect of Capitalism," replacing "Jew" with the Rich."

Just as people in Germany became National Socialists, we are nationalizing our commercial markets and about to elect a socialist who is echoing 1930s rhetoric.

And rhetoric it certainly is.  As history has already proven, it just doesn't work.  Thereby a lie.

And here is a summary of Obama’s dangerous economic plans for America. That means you!

He wants to almost double the capital gains tax. He wants to strip the FICA tax cap off every worker making more than $97,500. He wants to increase the dividend tax. He wants to let the Bush tax cuts expire — giving almost every American family an automatic tax increase.

He has called for more than $800 billion in new spending programs.

He is so radical he even backed driver’s licenses for illegal aliens — even though such a move would help future terrorists move freely in the United States.

He is the most pro-abortion candidate in the history of the country. In 2001, as a state legislator in Illinois, he opposed a bill to protect live born children — children actually born alive!  He was the only Illinois senator to speak out against the bill.

He opposes gun rights. He has long history of trying to deny ordinary citizens access to guns.

He originally backed Washington D.C.’s total ban on private handguns — a ban that was overturned. The NRA rated him an “F” on gun positions and says he is one of the most dangerous anti-gun politicians in the nation.

Never forget that Obama is a Harvard educated elitist. To him we Americans are simply “bitter” and he has mocked us saying “[they] cling to their guns and their religion.”

Exposing the Truth

Hillary Clinton was late in recognizing the threat Obama posed to her campaign, but once she did, her strategy worked.

When Hillary exposed Obama publicly, her campaign saw a major turnaround.

Hillary won every major state primary in the nation with the sole exception of Obama’s home state of Illinois.

And even though Obama was “anointed” by the media and Democratic elites, Hillary went on to win eight of the last 10 Democratic primaries.

How did Obama beat Hillary for the nomination?

Well, using a loophole in Democratic rules, he was able to rack up large majorities in caucus states where he outspent and out organized her.

But in large, contested states she won almost every time. Why? Because when Democrats heard what Obama really stood for, they turned on him.

true changes can only come from not one that spend 26 year in congress, american dont be naive he Mccain had added to the pot he have been apart of this mess how could he not, Obama is a man with a vision he have to practice what he preaches, it take you the american people to decied what you want for better o Obama a chance an see what happen .  

I can't believe that a person can't ask a question of Obama without his life being investigated and torn to shreds.  It does not matter if his desire to have a business is a dream or reality, what matters is how Obama answered the question.  You or I could ask a question about any of Obama's campaign promises, would we be treated the same way if we disagreed with him?  It is insulting that someone who has a dream should have it called a "fantasy."  But, that is the way this so called candidate for "main street" is, he doesn't want to let Americans rise above where they are now, but he wants to hold us down and make us all the same, and he will be above ruling us all.  That is what his vision of America is, a few elite people telling the rest of us how to live because he thinks we are all too stupid to think for ourselves.  When someone like Joe asked a thought provoking question, that upset him, so now he has to attack him.  During Hillary's campaign, Bill Clinton called Obama a Chicago thug, and that is what he is turning out to be.  His campaign can attack Palin and Cindy McCain, but no one is allowed to talk about him.  He is a cold, heartless, angry man and I fear for America if he wins.

I guess everytime you ask for a raise, you are essentially asking your boss to spread the wealth, eh? And when my company gives out bonuses based on exceeding the budget, they are speading the wealth... I could go on and on...