Straight From the Bottle

Am I really the first to respond to your heartfelt plea?  OK, then.  I have a 5 1/2-year-old daughter who has only been pooping in the potty for just over a year, so I've been there.  We've been through the poop tantrums, the 8 poops a day because she tried to hold it in, pooping in her pants in the chair in the restaurant, the whole works.  What finally did it?  I have to assume she just did it when she was ready, but I'm sure the power struggle (because we were all over her case about it so much) didn't help.  It's hard to do, but you have to not only act like you don't care, you have to really NOT CARE.  (This was especially hard for my husband, whose filter doesn't work so well--he just says what he thinks, and what he thought was "you've really got to start pooping in the potty!")

But that said, I think I'd advise you to dial back your reward.  Are you really going to produce a cake with candles the minute he drops one?  Probably not, and even if you did, it may seem a little overwhelming.  We told C. that we'd go out for ice cream, any time of the day or night, as soon as she did it.  One evening, she was running around naked and in obvious need to go, when, would you believe it, the ICE CREAM TRUCK came by.  There was the potty, there was the ice cream--she made the connection and she did it.  We only had to do the ice cream thing maybe once more after that and then we could go to a couple of M&Ms.

I wonder if you could just send him to school in undies--do you think he'd hold it until he got home?  My younger daughter (a couple months younger than Archer) has been in undies since she turned 2 (really), but rarely poops in the potty; she usually waits until nap time or bedtime when she has a pull-up, and she never poops in her pants. And once a week or so she surprises us all and goes in the potty, and she gets her sticker and her M&Ms, and we're all happy.  I know she'll get there eventually.  As will Archer.

A friend of mine teaches preschool and suggested an alternative method to potty and poopoo training: have the kid run around naked all weekend. The logic being that without a receptacle, an older child won't go on themselves. (This surely wouldn't work with any of the 2 or three year olds i know) but perhaps with Archer it may.

So, nakey time and bran muffins?

there is a concrete reason he doesn't like to poop on the potty.  not sure if you can talk to him about it to try and figure out what the fuckity-fuck is wrong with pooping on the commode.

My child was also afraid of pooping on the potty, and was still using a pull-up to poop several months after mastering peeing in the potty.  One day I just told her that after the pull-ups in the package ran out, they'd be all gone.  What will you do then?, I asked her.  Poop in the potty (duh) was her reply.  It was a difficult week, and she held it in as much as she could, but eventually she DID start going in the toilet, and she's fine about it now.

Now if I could just get her over her phobia of automatic flushers in public restrooms......

Sundry just posted about this yesterday as well.  Read the comments of her post for some good ideas:

www.sundrymourning.com/.../goodness-gracious

My son is 2.5 and we're still struggling with potty training as well.  I think that I'M the one that's not ready yet.  I don't have the patience for the nagging and constant reminders that I fear are required.  Sorry I don't have any advice, but I'll be reading the comments carefully.  :)

Super Pooper -- that's a great idea. Wow. Maybe I'll try that this weekend. Also, we tried the weekend naked time and you know what happened? Archer pooped on the floor in the laundry room. Which confused me even more because DUDE! DUUUUUUUDE.

I'm in the exact same situation - it's so frustrating (and bribes have not worked for me).  I'm going to try out Super Pooper's suggestion - it just might work.

Oy, MB! I'm glad to hear I'm in good company. Good luck!

See my advice at http://www.sundrymourning.com/  Linda's having your problem :-)

Tessa flat out refused to poop in the potty so we started making her wipe her own butt. that worked until she figured out how to con her big sis into wiping her butt for her. After that, whenever she pooped we spayed her butt outside with the hose on the stingy hard spray. Magically, she decided that pooping on the potty was a better option.

Since youi're asking, here's two things that might help:

1) Back off for a couple of months. It may well have become a *thing* now, and I always figure if they don't know it's a big deal to you, they canm't use it. It also gives everyone a chance to regroup and to back down more easily. This is especially true right now, because with a sister coming, there's a big change on the horizon - not a great time for this, ass many kids regress when a sibling comes along, and the potty poop is progress, quite the opposite of wehat will be natural. Give him a couple of months, fruatrating as it might be, and by the time you have energy to think about it again, it might be a better time.

2) This is what worked for us. It may be that we were just never going to hasve a problem, but another blogger just said she tried it and it worked after months of no potty poops, so it's worth a shot. Basically, the fear of pooping on the potty seems to come down to fear of losing part of themselves, and the great unknown destination for their product after the flush. So when Pumpkinpie asked me where my poop went, I made up a bit of whimsy and ytold her that the flush carried the like a waterslide out to the lake, where they went to play with the other poops. I ecall her confirming this story with me a ew times, especially when her first several were going down to play, but we never had an issue. We would flush and wave them goodbye and wish them a fun time. Silly perhaps, but ity worked here!

Good luck! (and patrdon the 1-handed typos!)

I thought we were a long way from pooping in the potty but one day, my son did it all on his own while I was on videophone with a friend.  We use the tiny Bjorn potty so that he can pull it out from the bathroom and put it wherever he wants to do his business.  I wonder if the kind of potty makes a difference for Archer?  Otherwise, I would suggest the naked idea or wear underwear even when you know he's going to poop.  See what happens.  The first few times may be messy but persist.  

Now, I just need to work up the courage to put panties on my son when we go out in public (he's 100% potty-trained at home but 0% in public, sigh).  It's just that I'm nearly 9 months pregnant and really don't want to deal with wet undies/clothes or wet carseat covers, etc. =P

My second daughter had this problem.  She not only was afraid of pooping on the potty she would go hide behind chairs or doors when she went.  All I remember, she's 44 now, is that when she finally did, we did as a previous person did, and waved bye-bye and let her flush the toilet. She half laughed and half cried while it disappeared.  She was 3 1/2 before we really made it.  Good luck.  Oh I bought my grandson a poop book and on one page there is a pile on the floor and it reads "OH NO, not on the floor!!"

Of course he then went on the floor and proudly showed his mother his pile as he said,

OH NO, not on the floor!!.  Sometimes things just backfire...no pun intended.

Just remember that there isn't any ONE way to make this happen. I shudder to remember training my boys.... Seriously. They're 9 and 6 and I STILL get the heebie jeebies... I agree with Super Pooper: Once the Pull ups run out, that's all there is. He'll either poop in his underwear or on the toilet. Might I suggest if he poops in his underwear, have him help you clean it up? He did, after all, MAKE the mess. If he spills milk all over the floor, he probably has to help wipe that up, right? I have found that it really helped my boys accept responsibility for their own bodies. I wouldn't say that it actually worked like magic, but they are in elementary school and I no longer wipe their asses. That has to count for something, right?

I don't suggest spraying your child with a HOSE with the spray on stingy hard; that is downright child abuse! I can't believe anyone does that. I wouldn't do that to my dog. Seriously, take a parenting class before someone calls CPS on you!

All 4 of my kids "got it" precisely at the age of two-and-three-quarter years of age, after starting training a little after the two-year birthday. I know it seems frustrating and then one day "Bam", they get it.

My last one was right at that same age and I had started to give up when he got a bout of diarrhea and his sensitive skin gets an IMMEDIATE rash, and that pushed him over the edge. Then, I looked at the calendar, two-and-three-quarter years.

Also, that's just my kids, every kid is different, but I have NEVER seen a kid get it before two-and-a-half, NEVER. I've had people tell me that and you look down and the kid has peed his pants. Sure, you hear stories, but they're few and far between. I think they are just that, "stories" and I mean excluding "accidents", 100% potty-trained.

The naked thing works well, too.

I must read through your comments and see who has the answer, because I certainly DO NOT. My child will be 4 in November and has been peeing on the potty for about a year. Pooping? Not so much. It. is. HELL. We tried to "stay strong" last week and not "give in" like everyone told us and we ended up at the Children's Hospital at 10pm bec he was crying about his butt hurting, etc. He had plugged himself up and had to have an enema :( It was AWFUL. So now we make him at least just sit on the potty and "try" before we completely give in with a diaper, but he's no fool. Though I'm beginning to think we, as parents, might be.

Oh, Kelly! That sounds horrible! I'm afraid we're headed down the road. Also, Kittenpie? OMG. I love you. Your poop story? Love. I'm absolutely going to sit down with Archer and give the poop story a try. In the past, I've told him that poops like to party and the only way to get them there is to put them in the toilet but maybe I should elaborate.

As for the poops in his underwear situation, Archer does it no problem and without the slightest care in the world... And then of course I end up throwing them away. Asking him to help me clean them is a good idea. I'll have to try that, too.

I have three kids and bribery worked for me.  I thought my baby was going to go to college in pull ups because she slipped on the potty one time while she was pooping and fell in the water.  After that she categorically refused to poop on the potty for eight months.  You would have thought I was trying to flay the skin off her body by the way she screamed whenever I suggested it.

That is until I bought the most girly, flouncy, ruffly pink dress up dress complete with shoes and hung it up high like potty bait.  I told her that as soon as she pooped on the potty for one week she could have the dress.

It took less than ten days.  She really wanted that dress and I wouldn't even let her touch it.  Archer has to have something that he really, really wants.  Hang it up like bait.  Bribery isn't usually by parenting method of choice but desperation leads to a relaxing of the normal parenting ideals.

You know, it`s not so bad having two in diapers. :) My firstborn was 16 months when the second arrived and I was pretty worried, but we just did assembly line changes . . . open diaper, open diaper, wipe, wipe, new diaper, new diaper, powder, powder, close, close.

Of course, now we`re trying to potty train the eldest who is now nearly three and he has ZERO interest in the potty at all. Not even to pee. If you ask him, he will say, "Yes, the potty is for pee and poo. But I like diapers. I want diapers." Leave it to me to get a kid who talks like a grown up and acts like a baby!

Lisa, I do not abuse my children. I did not take a pressure washer to her bottom. "Stingy" is like the back massager setting on our showerhead. When your 3.5 yr old wags her shitty butt at you and says "haha now you have to wipe my butt" you know she knows better and that she just doesnt want to bother. No way was I going to coddle her because she was too busy to take 5 minutes to sit on the toilet. She's nearly 5 now and I'd still be changing her diapers if I did that.

We are having similar problems at home. My son turned 3 in June and he is withholding his poop and has been for months. We have tried lots of things but finally we are having to use laxatives because it is getting so bad. He withheld up to 3 weeks recently. UGH! That doesn't sound like that is what is happening with Archer (thank God) because he WILL poop, just not on the potty. My guess is that it will just take a little time for him to be ready to go on the potty. The main thing is that he is not holding it in so that is good. Just give it some time and he'll probably decide enough with the pull-ups. Good luck!

Oh man, Tamara, did I laugh at your potty bait comment. I especially liked this part: "I didn't even let her touch it." That is gold.

I heard you start getting them to do it in the bathroom (in their diaper) then sitting on the potty still in their diaper and then cutting a hole in the diaper as a way of slowly progressing to using the potty. Haven't had to do this myself yet though. Good Luck.

I've only just cracked it myself! My 3 year old is as stubborn as yours, and refused all treats, bribes, books, etc. And he could recite where poos were supposed to go. "In the toilet"! So then my mum forced the issue, and I ditched the nappies altogether. He too went in his pants loads at first, but on the odd occasion when i physically grabbed him and held him cradled (big hugs seem to combat the fear) on the seat, he went. BUT I think the biggest help was his nursery school. Can't they help you? His first day there in pants, and NO PROBLEMS AT ALL. Now, weirdly 2 weeks on, he's big on privacy and tells me to go away when he needs to go... He wants to do it all himself. It's a control thing obviously.

Has he hung out with kids his own age who DO poop on the potty? Maybe some peer reinforcement would help. Can you enlist some friends with kids of similar age to hang out at your house and then pull out several potties when it's time?

What worked for me (twice!):

Step 1: Get yourself a bag of M&M's.

Step 2: Get a bell (any bell will do, but one of those hotel desk bells are a big favorite, though)

Step 3: Explain the rules to child and they are simple.  #1 in the potty gets a candy.  #2 in the potty gets a candy AND a bell jam sesh.

Step 4: Keep bell out of reach.  Child will sneak bell privledges without depositing #2.

Step 5: Ask 7,485 times a day "Do you have to go potty?"

Step 6: Say 7,484 times a day "Let's go potty."

Step 7: Praise.  Praise.  Praise.  (and this time, you don't even need to be in a church!)

Step 8: Lather.  Rinse.  Repeat.

My daughter was 3.5 before she was out of Pull-Ups.  She only wore them to poop in them like Archer.  She refused to poop on the potty and would only poop outside (in her Pull-ups, not on the ground).  She would be watching TV or playing and stop and announce, "I have to poop in the Poop Tree" and promptly go out to our backyard and sit in a shrub and do her business in her Pull-Ups.  I tried everything to get her to do her business inside, but she wasn't having it.  How did we break free of the Pull-Ups?  Preschool.  They wouldn't let her in unless she wore big girl panties and that was it.  Done and done.  Archer will come around.

We still laugh about the "Poop Tree" though.  

As a a preschool teacher and mother of 3 potty trained children i have to tell you- there is no magic. i wish there was. my daughter was potty trained very early (it's not just a story! lol!) then my son took until right before he turned 3. my last daughter also didn't train until her 3rd birthday. i have kids every year who come into the 3 year old class wearing diapers. sometimes they turn 4 and are STILL in diapers. this goes for boys (mostly) and girls. one little girl held her poop so long that it would hurt when she went so of course she was afraid. she'd leak in her undies all day and then scream on the toilet while i rubbed her back and told her to "let it out, it's okay..." different things work for different kids but man, some of those kids are just stubborn! the best advice i've seen so far is to let it go. he will do it when he's ready and nothing you do will help (most of the time.) drop the issue and i guarantee that one day you will wake up to him screaming from the bathroom "i'm dooooone!!"

Dr. Phil said that you should have the child potty train a doll. then you throw the doll a party, complete with confetti, and in no time your child will want their own party. i've never tried it but it's another suggestion to add to the list. good luck!

Maternal Mirth, that was so funny!  That was the best laugh I've had all day, thanks!  :)

On the pooping front, the only thing that worked for us was backing off for a while, then intense bribery.  We used Thomas trains as rewards for poops....we have the largest set of them now, but also 2 boys who use the potty all the time!  

My boy's preschool helped with getting him out of pull-ups.  An aide (not the teacher) pulled me aside and told me the teacher wasn't making him go to the bathroom, but she'd take care of it for me - to just sent him in underwear and send a couple of changes of clothes.  He peed in his pants for two days, then never again, except for the occasional accident.  He was a three and a few months old.

Poop, as just about everyone here has agreed, was a different story.  He'd wait until I got him home, then would go in his room, close the door, and poop in his pants.  Every. Day. Then I'd get him into the bathroom, help him take his pants off, and dump the contents into the toilet.  He started yelling "PLOP" whenever it hit the water - it turned into a big joke for him.  Desperate by this time, I told him that if he thought it was cool when it plopped in the water when I dropped it out of his underpants, just imagine how cool it would be if it plopped out of his backside!  He thought about it for a minute, then agreed to give it a try.  When we got home the next day, he headed straight to his room as usual, but I chased after him saying no no NOOOO, you promised me, remember?  I couldn't believe it, but he actually tried it, and it worked!  We both laughed our heads off.  Then we had ice cream.  Bizarre, I know, but he went in the potty every time from then on out.

At that time, I used a little potty ring over the toilet seat that made the hole smaller so he wouldn't fall in.

nashvegas -- your story just totally inspired me. I need to have a talking to to Archer's teachers. See if they will help me with this.

I didn't read all the comments, because there are just so many of them already, so you might have heard this one already.

First, get rid of the pull-ups.  I learned that with Noah, he wore them until he was nearly 4, until one day I asked him if he needed to poop and he said no and did it anyway.  I flat refused to change it (I only made him wait about 5 minutes, and he cried the whole time).  

Second.  Bribery.  Serious bribery involving money.  With Tessa, I gave her a small jelly jar and threw in a few coins.  When she peed in the potty she got 5, pooping earned 10.  We talked about what she would buy when it was full, and every time I gave her more coins, I reminded her about the wonderful, glorious, beautiful Barbie she would buy (of course, I chipped in, but she didn't know that.)

However, if she had an accident, I took 5 or 10 coins out.  It took about a week before she gave in, because she's uber-stubborn.  She would scream and pitch a fit every time I took coins out, but it finally sunk in.

I think the most important thing is getting rid of the pull-ups.  You might have to deal with the mess for a while, but if you take away the convenience, it'll help.  Good luck!!

So my son has gone pee in the toilet since 3 1/2 years old and as of about 3 weeks ago he stopped holding his hand on his bottom like that would keep the poop in.  He would go crazy and start crying, running around holding the bum while we picked him up screaming "I don't have to go poop!!!!!!" and kicking us.  We then proceeded to put him on the pot and hold him there....we did this at the point that we knew he wasn't able to hold it in any more.  He would then poop, and be really proud of himself,  Like "why are you guys all sweaty and flustered???  I just had to poop!"  This went on for like 5 months, the screaming, kicking, hysteria....and then one day 3 weeks ago, he just walked up to me and  said..." I have to go poop".  And the clouds opened and I cried tears of joy!!!!!!!!!!!

When I found out I was pregnant with our fourth child (from my second pregnancy), it became my OBJECTIVE IN LIFE to get our then, two-year-old triplets potty trained. Because the thought of FOUR children in diapers was mind numbing.

I tried and tried and tried everything. I had four children in diapers for several months and STILL have four children in diapers every night.

One of the trio day trained just shy of her third birthday. Another one of the trio day trained just after their third birthday. With their fourth birthday less than a month away, the third of the trio JUST started pooping in the potty (but not all the time) within the past week. I cannot begin to adequately capture the angst it causes me to clean up the poop from a 43-pound child.

The only advice I have is to keep offering, asking, suggesting. Putting them on the potty whenever you can. Rewards may or may not work. Ultimately, they will not train until THEY are ready. Suppositories, laxatives, nakedness may do NOTHING to help and may in fact make the shittiest mess you've ever seen. Trust me.  I've tried it all.

I have tried to capture some of the challenges we've faced with potty training on my blog (potty training the masses), but haven't updated the section recently with our newest success. Unfortunately, I pulled down our YouTube potty training video which was AWESOME because several radio stations linked to it and I had over 15,000 psycho comments in less than two weeks.

Good luck. Stay calm.

I had this problem with two of my three kids. The first time was with my oldest, who responds well to authority. His doctor told him, "All the three-year-olds I know poop on the potty," and that was that. All done.

My youngest was not cool with that approach. Plus he'd been constipated since he was an infant. What finally worked was holding a much coveted Thomas the Tank Engine train in front of him when he was on the potty and telling him he could have it if he pooped. Voila.

We had to scale it down a little after that, but still used semi-lavish bribes. Now he poops every single day and it doesn't cost me a penny. It was totally worth it.

It's great to see all the other parents that have trouble with this. I was made to think that my daughter was behind because she screams if I even try to get her to do anything on the potty. She's only 2, but a lot of other mothers I know with children the same age have said their kids are showing interest in it.  I have a feeling I too will be finding my child squatting in the laundry room.

We so had the same problem. My daughter was terrified to poop in the potty. What eventually worked were a couple of things, We put a second potty in the playroom so she could watch tv and read books while she was trying to go which was a huge help and put less pressure on her.  We also promised her a sandbox after she was using the potty regularly and all the pull-ups were gone. We also watched "Potty Power" everyday and read the potty books endlessly. We were getting desperate because they wouldn't accept anyone who isn't potty trained at our local preschool. so we just kept at it and things eventually kicked in. I have to say it really helped talking about it over and over again with her. Once she truly understood why her body had to go poop and how it came out and all of that good stuff it was a little scary for her!

She had us hold her hand for awhile when she went but hey whatever works! She eventually got past the handholding as well but it took her a full year  to be able to poop at preschool, poor thing would wait till she got home!

I have to second Tamara's bribery suggestion.  My son wanted a big boy bicycle (with training wheels) and we told him that only kids who wear underwear can ride a bike like that.  Of course, my parents gave it to him for his 3rd birthday.  Well, we put it in the basement and reminded him that he could ride it when he was wearing underwear.  How he wanted to ride that bike!  And it was in the basement tormenting him - right next to his tricycle, which he had to ride until he was wearing underwear.

We then just dropped it for a few weeks and he asked us after a bit to wear underwear and started pooping and peeing on the potty - he was trained in no time.  The funniest thing is that one day his little friend came over and asked to try his bike and he told her, sorry, but it is really uncomfortable to ride in a diaper, but, hey, I have some underwear upstairs if you want to borrow a pair - then you can ride it!!  She really loved the bike too, so her mom did the same thing and it worked for her too!

Good luck!  Don't stress - it will happen!  

My friend just told me she had this same problem with her oldest.  What finally worked was a combination of bribery and jealousy.  She got the best car she could find (substitute with whatever item your child is crazy about) and then left it OUT and visible to basically taunt the kid.  Didn't work to make him poop in the potty until one day her husband said "If I poop in the potty can I have the toy?" Her kid was pushing the dad out of the way to get there first.  And that kinda of broke the ice so then he was able to go.  Just one more war story...

We went through the exact same situation with one of my twins. She peed fine, but would not poop in the potty. Eventually, we gave in and just let it be for months. She needed to poop, she asked for a diaper (we didn't call them pull-ups -- wanted to keep them sounding babyish and, therefore, hopefully, less appealing), we gave it to her, she went into the bathroom and put it on and pooped, we cleaned it up. Then one day we needed diapers and she didn't want to go to the store to get them. I told her we wouldn't have any more tomorrow when she needed to poop -- what would we do? She said she would poop in the potty. I took a cell-phone video of her saying it and replayed it for her the next day when she asked for a diaper. She didn't like it, but she did it. And, lo-and-behold, it worked. Here's the full story: www.leapdesign.com/upsideup

Good luck. Sending loose vibes.

With my fisrt son we had a major issue just with pooping and finally our pediatrician suggested a suppository, thinking that he maybe didn't know the correct muscles while sitting.  We put it up there and put him directly on the potty and that was the only one we had to use, he hated it that much.  Never had the problem again...I have since had 2 more son's and am almost at the potty training stage with one, and one is only 2 weeks, his name is Archer!  Good luck, I'll be awaiting a trillion dollars if it works:0)

You guys are AWESOME!!! All of your advice is so great. I'm going to try all of it! I actually brought five pairs of underwear into Archer's school this morning so we can try training him there, too. I also think maybe the cake bribe isn't working so well because he can't SEE it so I'm planning on taking him a trip to Target to pick up the Little Einsteins Rocket Ship he's been coveting. My plan? To wrap it in front of him and write REALLY BIG on the paper "YOUR POOPY PRESENT!" and then I'll just have it waiting there for him for when he wants to poop. FINGERS CROSSED!!! Stay tuned.

There is this Bear in the Big Blue House DVD about going potty that worked magic for my kid. We bought books, offered up bribes and all that jazz, and in the end it was a few different DVDs that got her to do it. And once she did, that was it. She didn't even wear diapers to bed. We told her that if she pooped in the potty ten times, she got to go to the toy store and choose ANY toy she wanted. It totally worked.

1. Take child's pants off.

2. Lift child up under his shoulders.

3. balance child on toilet seat.

4. Shift hands down to belly area.

5. Literally, SQUEEZE THE SHIT OUT OF SAID CHILD.

Sorry. No real advice. Potty training was the ONLY thing that came easy with my child.

I liked super pooper's idea, but I'm afraid that the trick really is when they are ready.  My guy was just shy of three when he finally got around to using the potty to poop.  Before that I started noticing signs that he was ready because all of a sudden he would get this look on his face and run into his room, slamming the door behind him.  When I would follow him with the inevitable suggestion that he put it in the potty, I would find him crouched behind his train table screaming, "I need privacy, I need privacy" and waiving me away wildly.  Finally, when I thought he'd never get it, he did.  Now if I could only get him to wipe his own butt...

My assvice (heh) would be 1. To get rid of the Pullups.  Let him feel how yucky gross it is to have a poopy ass.  2. Use FiberCon if he starts holding it in.

Yeah, he still poops in his undies is the thing. But you're right. Eventually (I hope) he figures out that it just isn't that fun to sit in ones own fecal matter.

My son was also afraid to go poo poo in the potty. He had turned 3 in June and was told that in order to start preschool with kids his age he would have to be potty-trained. They of course said don't worry it will happen. What do you mean don't worry? Its 2 months away and he shows very little interest. For months I tried gummy bears as a treat - 1 for pee pee and two for poo poo. He finally mastered the pee-pee thing one month after 3, but did not want to go poo poo. I figured out that pull-ups were virtually diapers and he used them as such. I then decided to just put underwear on him. For a month he went poo poo in his underwear (it was so gross and a mess). However, he finally got disgusted with himself and finally went poo poo in the toiler, literally 2 weeks before preschool started.

My second son just mastered the poop thing about, oh, 2 weeks ago.  We went the bribery route--you've gotten plenty of advice about that.  

However, with Gideon he was frightened of falling into the toilet (yes, I had the toilet insert seat, but he refused to use it;  no, I absolutely would not use a special separate potty, the kid needs to know how to use a regular toilet).  Anyway, he liked to sit facing the toilet, holding onto the back of it--I guess he felt a little more secure.

quick question: is the issue with the toilet (vs. potty)?  My now 3.5 year old was scared of toilets (i.e. the big things with water in them) for pooping until fairly recently, but pooped on his little Bjorn potty no problem (all the while happily standing up to pee in the toilet once he'd mastered peeing in the little potty).  All the fears about where the poop goes are not an issue, because the friendly little pile is still sitting there smiling at you when you get up. (Of course, there's more clean-up for you this way, but those flushable sanitizing Method wipes are good for that after you-- or they-- do the dump into the real toilet).  Also no scary water to fall into.  Anyway, my .02... good luck.

many good comments and helpful advice. Having been through it twice, I can say the same thing doesn't work with each child... as you might have guessed. For my son, I used the diaper/ split pull up across the toilet seat trick, because he had a feeling that part of his insides were coming out when his butt dangled over space. After that it was let's sit in the bathroom for a few hours and see what happens. Lots of books were read. The wall chart of progress was also helpful.For my daughter, we tried to make it be a "baby" thing and all kids want to be grown up, don't they?

Good luck.

Dre-- He doesn't want to poop on his potty or the big potty (he will pee in whatever's available)... We've been working on the whole "babies poop in their pants. Big dudes poop in the potty!" and he always agrees, wholeheartedly admitting that he isn't a big boy because he doesn't "go poop in the potty..." I'm starting to think he's just not "emotionally" there, which sounds funny because its poop but Archer's taken his sweet time with everything since crawling so I'm hoping, without too much force that one of these days he'll surprise me... which he does so well.

Wow this brings back memories of a couple of years ago.  Our problem was that he had a fear of pooping on the potty that it manifested into anxiety where it would actually hurt to poop on the potty because he couldn't relax.  He was potty trained (he knew where pee-pee and poopy were suppose to go, but he was withholding his poop while on the potty).  We had to go to our pedi and he suggested giving him mylanta... whoa buddy that sucked big time for us ALL!!! Yeah it didn't hurt coming out but he didn't even get the chance to try to make it to the toilet.  I'd suggest a poop friendly diet for him if he starts withholding.  I think the pull-ups give a comfort zone that's hard to get out of for some kids.  My first goal was to get him to realize that even if he pooped in his pull-ups in the bathroom that was okay.  But he had to do it in the bathroom... then we worked up to going on the potty :)

Great advice.  My oldest learned quickly but I had the help of daycare.  Extra underwear, extra clothes.  He even night trained shortly after.  He just decided he wanted to wear underwear one night before bed.  I was scared as heck but followed his lead.

Now, my second is 18mos and I'm already thinking of introducting the pt'ing.  Well, I've sat him on the insert and he thinks it's cool.  Nothing happens but that's ok.  I flush it and we wave good bye to the tp square he threw in there.  

I'm so lax this time around but mainly because once I bite that bullet there's no turning back or doing it half assed.  

Sounds like no pull ups and one HUGE prize w/in eye sight is key.  

Tell us how it's going and good luck!

Peer pressure and ridicule were my greatest allies in the battle to get my kids to crap in the toilet. (We use the word crap around here. I know my toddlers sounded like characters from an Al Pachino movie but I always hated cutesy talk.)

When the male kidlets went to nursery school in pull-ups, proud of their big boy underwear, they were soon informed by their smug peers that pull-ups were actually diapers in mufti and diapers were for babies. They came home in tears but they were soon completely toilet trained and in cotton underwear.

Thanks, mean kids!

My daughter was trained before she was a year old. She insisted on it. Girls are just way ahead of boys in some respects.

Hi, I haven't had time to read through all the posts, but I got through well over half of them and OMG!! I don't envy the toilet training fiascos I have read about!

My baby is only 10 months old and at 6 months when he started sitting up and eating some solid food, I started watching for cues as to when he had to pee and poop.  When I thought he had to go I would take off his diaper and hold him over the pot and let him pee and poop.  Peeing is hit and miss somedays, but we have only had maybe 2-3 poops in the diaper since we started this.  It helps that he only poops once or twice a day since eating some solids, but he is not scared at all of going on the toilet or of the toilet flushing.  Some people start this process from the time their babies are born. I wish I had started this when my son was born because I think it would have prevented the severe diaper rash he had for quite a while.  Of course I don't know if this will completely prevent the tantrum stage when he gets older, but I am pretty sure it will help.  

There's lot of info on the web about 'Elimination Communication' and its not an all or nothing approach so you do what works best for you.  I use diapers on my son, but I just try to keep the diaper dry.  That way I don't have to clean up messes and my son still gets to go on the toilet.  

Anyways, hope things work out with Archer sooner than later for you!