FlickR Pictures Taken Without Permission: Babble Apology Not Accepted.
In case you haven’t heard yet, Babble was accused of lifting kid pictures from FlickR and using them for several articles over the past few months. The call-to-action went out and the blogosphere responded. Sweet Juniper, one of the all-time best-written and most-beloved parent blogging sites headed up the campaign (he found a picture of his daughter used without permission on Babble’s front page earlier this month).
Posting pictures of my children on the Internet makes me jumpy and nervous (which is why I do not use FlickR) and someone using these pictures without my permission gives me hives. So I’m sympathetic to those folks who found their kids pictured on Babble. If I didn’t write for Babble, didn’t believe that it was an honest mistake on the part of a photo assistant somewhere in an office building in New York, I’d have joined right in (I have plenty of Mommy Lioness wrath to share). But I believe it was an error. I do not believe it was a terrible abuse of power on behalf of a heartless corporation.
People like me love David and Goliath stories (especially when we get to be David). It is our duty as parents to defend and fight and insure that our beautiful little people aren’t used and abused. But what I want to know is this… Will these parents accept Babble’s apology? Even though every single picture has been taken down.. even though FlickR abuse isn’t new to Web 2.0. If you read the comments on SJ’s flickR page, it seems the answer is a resounding ‘No!”
It may be fun to imagine Babble is a faceless corporation full of insensitive louts who like to steal pictures from your personal family album. But I’ll tell you, Babble is parents like me.. like you… writing and sharing our stories and wanting to make parenting a less lonely, much more amusing job.
Babble has now put safe-guards in place to make sure this sort of thing never happens again… But clearly, that’s just not good enough.
Like my Momma will say: “Don’t be sorry, be correct”…shame on you Babble. Just want to let you know that I’m part of a really big Mommies network and you’ll definitively be out of our lists.
I did notice they removed the “Urban” claim. Not that the Strollerderby part was ever Urban…
This is the most pathetic excuse, ever. Last time I checked, this wasn’t a tiny little mom and pop setup. This is part of a major company WHO KNOWS BETTER. If your “interns” are stupid enough to think they can steal, you might want to consider getting new interns.
Actually, while you’re at it, might want an entire new staff.
I couldn’t stomach this site when it touted itself as “urban” when it was really “white, middle-class, but still with-it hipsters in gentrified neighborhoods” and now? Plagiarists and photo-stealers who think it’s fine? Not only will I not visit it again, but I will encourage everyone I know to stop coming here.
So…where are you getting the images used in this blog?
I’m a journalist and I have to say, my teeny tiny newspaper in East Bumfuck, U.S. knows better than to do that. At best, you look unprofessional, and at worst, completely and totally malicious and underhanded, which is embarrassing, given that you are a media company, and last time I checked, it was your responsibility to not plagiarize.
While I think it’s being blown a *teeny* bit out of proportion, I have to say, as a professional writer and photographer, that what’s happened here is *not okay* by any stretch, apology or not, given the magnitude of the situation. ONCE is understandable. Twice? Three times? No no. It’s a giant, huge, stinking NO NO in the media world, and to pretend that you didn’t know any better is laughable. I work with page designers and photo editors that are still in college, and THEY know not to do that.
Plagiarism is a very big deal. A very, very big deal, to a writer or a photographer. It’s not flattering, it’s stealing. That’s what gets me about the whole thing — not the taking photos of your kid, or personal pride or whatever. It’s that you’re actually stealing people’s WORK
Rufus,
I too read your snarky comment on SJ’s flickr site before reading your latest comment over here. GIve me a break. Turn off your computer and take a break from the internet for awhile. It seems that there are few people who are buying your “aw shucks” apology. Babble is no longer on my favorites list.
Dianne- a former fan.
seriously? because someone chooses to stay at home, they are focusing on the small stuff?
they’re protecting the image of their child being used without permission. that really has notthing to do with whether you are a stay at home parent or not.
a lot of parents do realize the chances we take by posting video or images of our family or children. but we (wrongfully) assume that our children’s photos won’t be used without permission by a…parenting’s website. i mean it just doesn’t make sense to me in that regard.
further, i’ve been a huge fan – and still am – fan of sweet juniper. i saw the comments on flickr and on their blog. it was wrong that rufus accused dutch of being after the money, of going on the defense. what they should have done was apologize, but NOT accuse a parent of wanting money. that wasn’t the intention at all.
as of this post here nd all the latest, i have definitely restricted the use of my photos and deleted several photos of my daughter from flickr.
Oh, please. I agree with Amanda – this is all just a tempest in a teapot. Both sides of this need to shut up, get over themselves already, and get on with their lives. If you put pictures of your kid or your dog or your legless grandmother on the internet, you know what chances you’re taking.
For those who are worried that we’re over-reacting, let me cross post the comment Rufus made over at SJ’s flickr account :
—-
Hey folks –
All I can say is that we are trying to do the right thing here, as we always have in the past and present (little bill describes our policies well above … nice to hear from you Bill). Our posts here and communications with people who have posted have one purpose only: to politely and respectfully get information about any problems. Sweet juniper, on the other hand, has a very specific agenda here: he is trying to find a way to make some money off of us. I do hope the rest of you will consider reading Babble.com now and then … though we are not perfect, we put a lot of energy every day into making what i think is a pretty great website for young parents.
best to all (including even you, sweet juniper),
Rufus
—-
Adds some context to the kind of person we’re dealing with here, no?
While I agree that it is inappropriate to use photos without permission, I find this whole thing to be a bit ridiculous. It seems like this was a two-person “fight” and one of the people went and got the football team and the cheerleaders and hell, even the freaks & geeks, and returned to show that guy who’s boss.
This applies to most internet “arugments. It is against blog law to ever disagree with the blog writer and should you dare make such an eggregious error, you will pay for it in the comments.
Again, I don’t think what Babble did was right or fair, but I think it’s been blown out of proportion. I’ve read about this in a few different places, but haven’t been presented with any of these “others” who have suffered the same fate at the hands of this horrible, terrible no-good company.
And as for comments on flickr about nerve selling out, show me one compmany that doesn’t branch out and build a brand and you’ll show me a company that won’t go far.
I will end this by alienating everyone and saying that this is why some people shouldn’t be stay-at-home parents– they have nothing else to do but focus on minutae. Ha, that will piss a bunch of you off, but god, I’ve been wanting to say that for years.
Now this last comment is what the original post should have been more like… unfortunately, I think same damage (and additional damage from this post) has already been done.
Hey folks –
I have addressed a few questions and comments here:
http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/archive/2007/09/26/flickr-pictures-taken-without-permission-babble-responds.aspx
Our core message to readers is this:
1) We absolutely positively messed up and are very sorry about it. The blame goes straight to the top because we clearly should have communicated our photo policies more clearly to the whole team.
2) the minute we learned that a handful of images on the site were used without permission (earlier this week) we did a full review of all the photos and removed those that were used improperly. The vast majority of images used on Babble since the beginning were used properly. In the last two days we have had a series of meeting with editors and designers and put in place a new set of policies that are very stringent.
Much of the information posted elsewhere about a history of improper use of photos is just plain not accurate. We have only had two cases in 10 years of our publishing history in which photo rights issues have come up. The first was in February when a photographer who agreed to have her photo on Babble complained that a small thumbnail version of the image appeared in multiple pages. We agreed to pay her $100 to compensate her for the misunderstanding. The second was in 2001 related to the Nerve print magazine — it turned out that one of our advertisers gave us a photo for which they did not have permission and we got sued.
That is the history of Nerve Media photo usage issues. We have published some 6,000 articles and 20,000 photos in 10 years, and until recently I think we had a pretty good record.
Again, we clearly made a sizable mistake, and we have moved quickly to learn from that mistake and observe the best practices in the marketplace. I hope those disappointed by these developments understand that we take your feedback seriously and our working hard over here to live up to your expectations.
Feel free to e-mail me directly at rufus@babble.com.
best, Rufus
(Co-Publisher, Babble)
Huh. I hadn’t heard anything about this debate. Now, thanks to this passive agressive post (I just love the “not apology” of “we’re sorry you got upset” as opposed to “we’re sorry we wronged you”) I’m debating whether or not I think babble is a site I should continue reading. I had already been on the fence because of the content, but now I think perhaps it’s also ethically wrong to continue to support this site. The excuse that you’re parents is weird… lots of people are parents and that doesn’t excuse them from violating the law. Or can I go mug somebody and claim that I should be excused because I’m just a mom trying to pay her baby’s copious hospital bills?
Ha, funny you bring up that slogan in this discussion, Liz:
http://www.amazon.com/Mother-All-Parenting-Books-Preschool/dp/0764556185
lol you said blogosphere
Too little, too late. Someone needs to teach y’all some manners.
We learned about plagiarism in elementary school, junior high, and high school. And college. And grad school.
Stealing images is a form of plagiarism. If Babble is staffed by people who don’t understand what is a relatively simple concept (don’t use work that isn’t yours) and can’t afford their own photo shoots, they shouldn’t be in business. At the very least, common courtesy demands that even if a picture is not copyrighted, one should ask before using the image. But, according to you, Babble shouldn’t be bound to common courtesy or common sense. Babble isn’t some tiny, one person blog entitled to an “honest mistake” any more than the New York Times is a ‘zine that should let Jayson Blair keep writing. Your blog is promoted as “The Mother of All Parenting Blogs” – Babble promotes itself as an authority. If you want to be in a position of authority, there are certain journalistic responsibilities you must abide by.
Last time I checked, saying, “I’m sorry” is not considered to be adequate recompense in a court of law.
Yep, have to also agree with the others. Badly done, SD.
I have to agree with the others.. I am sure this post was well-intentioned, but… I think it really just made matters worse.
You’re right – it’s not good enough. You have a responsibility as a corporation to not steal other people’s material. (I’d also like to think that you have a responsibility to set an example for other web users, but that is just me). And, as a publication targeting parents, I think you would be particularly careful not to take advantage of a child. I can promise that I will not be supporting your site, and that I will encourage others to do the same.
1. It’s happened before, same excuse, same attempts at buying people off with $100.
2. That Babble dude accusing SJ of just ‘being after the money’. Ludicrous, false, turned the tale from company-making-a-mistake to company-bully.
3. Petulant SD post. Had this post been a public apology then great. But it’s a public whinge. A public foot-stomping, arms-folded “We said sorry but NOOO, not good enough for them, they’re the money-grabbin’ bad guys!”
Rufus’ comment made it worse, this SD post is the nail in the coffin.
How do you respond now that it’s come out that this EXACT thing has happened before?
& trying to position yourselves as “mom & pop” while at the same time blaming the your big soulless corporate overlord lackies as the ones who actually did the dirty work is more than a bit disingenuous.
As a “professional company”, Babble should have known better. Simple journalist ethics should teach that you don’t use what’s not yours, or what you haven’t received permission to use. It’s not rocket science….and not a mistake. I don’t believe malice was intended, of course.
As parents, you (collective you) really should have known better. I don’t post pictures of my kids online for reasons such as this. I can understand why the parents are still upset.
It’s the repeat offenses which have people a little, dis-enchanted. Coupled with the ludicrous response from Rufus, I am awed.
Sorry, mom, the mob has spoken!
I don’t speak for anyone but myself, of course, but the sense I get is that Babble’s apologies and promises are not “good enough” precisely because the revelations of similar incidents in the past tend to hollow them out: “I’m sorry, baby, I’ll change this time, I promise.”
I’ve got no problem taking a wait-and-see if Babble lives up to its promises of respect for other peoples’ content. A similar flareup happened at Consumerist a few months back, and their editors’ very upfront efforts to correct their flickr misuses seem to have proved a boost to their credibility.
Pingback from GadgetGadget.info – Gadgets on the web » FlickR Pictures Taken Without Permission: Babble Apology Not Accepted.
I KNOW I’m not the only one who went “OMG, Juney has lead-poisoning?!”
Pingback from Clearly Now…