Strollerderby

I agree with you in general, but I think you misread what they were saying about child abuse. Non-accidental injury = intentional injury = abuse, even the American College of Pediatricians acknowledges that.

Reading that makes me physically sick.

I have never understood how people are not allowed to strike other adults (even if they "deserve it") without going to jail but are allowed under the law to hit children under the guise of discipline.  I find it totally appalling.

This a general question to all readers. Is there ever a case in which you would allow your child pain or discomfort for her or his own good? A comparison might be to performing an intervention in the life of someone who is doing harmful things to themselves or someone else (e.g. addiction, domestic abuse, etc.) I guess I just see a deeper question/conversation here about how people change? How do people get better? Aren't there examples in our own lives of when we needed someone to withhold something or push us to something we would have not chosen on our own...due to our lack of insight, maturity, objectiveness, etc. Then, how do we as parents translate that kind of benevolent withholding or pushing to the more simplistic world of children? Ideas?

I agree with Julielynn -- this makes me sick. Children are HELPLESS and the only reason parents are able to hit children in the first place is because they can physically overpower them.

Appalling -- just appalling.

So if I hit my husband (a big guy who could probably benchpress four of me), I can go to jail.  But if I hit my small, defenseless child - that's discipline?  Bleh.

In psych we learned about authoritative parenting, where you instill your beliefs in your child and those become ingrained and the child uses them to self regulate.  There are soooo many ways to teach a child that do not involve physical punishment.  

This is so timely in my small bubble of a world right now. I have, within the last week, been approached by two of my child's friends parents inquiring about spanking (and I know a few more that spank). One was AS.TOUNDED at the response that we have never hit our child and that we won't!! I was surprised to find out that their child had been spanked numerous times!

Not only will this information convert some parents to spanking, but it will validate those that already prescribe to that as punishment!

Pingback from  We’re a Nation of Spankers?

I wouldn't give much weight to anything the American College of Pediatricians says.  They are a small group of right wing pediatricians who gave themselves an impressive-sounding, generalist name so that their opinions and endorsements have an air of unquestionable authority.

That's what's so disturbing, Bean's mom.  YOU won't give them weight because you know who they are and where the opinion is coming from.  Most people will hear that official sounding name and think the ACP is a trustworthy organization.  That's what's so deceptive about it.

JulieLynn: Presumably you remove your children from playgrounds (etc.) and confine your children within your home. Were you to do that to an adult, you'd be guilty of abduction and unlawful restraint. By your logic, you shouldn't do that. I think that points out a flaw in your logic.

What the hell is MailDeadDrop talking about? Am I the only one confused by this response?

He/she is taking issue with the statement people have made about how if hitting an adult is illegal, hitting a kid should be too. Basically we do things all the time to our children (make them eat the dinner we've prepared, make them go to bed, etc) you can't really do to an adult. I see the logical flaw. However pointing out a logical flaw doesn't render the idea that we shouldn't hit our children wrong. But hey, why make your own argument when you can pick apart someone else's? I don't think we should hit children because it models violence for them. Hitting a kid teaches them that hitting is an acceptable thing to do. I've worked very hard to overcome the lessons my father taught me (that it's ok to beat up on the smaller people when you're angry) and I'm still not perfect. I sure as hell don't want to teach my son that physical violence is a good way to express emotion.

Umm, yeah.  What mcglory13 said.

How many of you that were spanked (not "abused")as a child think that you turned out o.k.?  I hope most.  

The are many things wrong with the never-ending logic games we play with ourselves.  It doesn't always work that way.  There are several more things that you can do "with" or "to" your children that could have farther reaching consequences than a quick wack on the backside.  Rude to others, no civic duty, narrow minded social views, etc. could all be worse than spanking...

The problem is that no one really agrees on what makes a spanking a spanking.  When my son was two, he reached for a hot stove and I slapped his hand away so he wouldn't burn himself.  Then he got a hug and an explanation about hot things and not touching.  I had his infant sister in the other arm and had I taken the time to put her down and pull him away from the stove, he would have gotten burned.  Does that count as spanking?  

There is a world of difference between wailing a child on his or her bare bottom with a paddle and applying a light (nonpainful) slap to a diapered bottom with an open hand.  There is also a huge difference between a spanking administered by an angry, out of control person and one given by a calm, rational person, and THAT is what I believe is where the line between abuse and discipline lies.

We don't spank for a lot of reasons.  I have friends who do though.  

I prefer the Love and Logic form of discipline...setting limits, sticking to them, and holding my kids accountable for their decisions. They have a great article for alternatives to spanking on their website: www.loveandlogic.com/.../spank.pdf

Pingback from  Adult blog  » Blog Archive   » We’re a Nation of Spankers?

I think spanking is crap and overused.  But I also do not think it is this evil thing that ruins kids psyches and makes them all dope heads.  Until the last couple of decades everyone spanked thier kids or hit them or threw things at them.  The overwhelming majority of kids in this world are discplined physically in someway.  The reason spanking sucks is it makes us feel like crappy parents too out of control to talk to our kid and too afraid to figure out why they are bad and we are mad.  Spank, dont beat, and stop making mountains out of molehills.  The biggest potheads I knew in college we never spanked as kids!

Pingback from  in the waiting line | Lion and Magic Boy

Pingback from  Piecea.Com » We're a Nation of Spankers?

You know what?  When my 2.5 year old ran across the street and I was carrying the baby (in his seat, my bag and eggs, you bet he got a spanking.  Because that is a hell of a lot gentler than the alternative.  We were visiting my grandparents and it was a busy road.  Did it hurt him no, did I do it out of frustration, partly, did he ever do it again, nope.  Does he now tell me to check before I cross, going on a year later, you bet he does.

It was gentle, he is and was fine.

Judge away, folks.

Wonder how many people in prison were spanked? I bet 100%. A lot of good it did them.

I was a huge pot head in college and  I was spanked (not "abused") as a child.  I also believe I was spoiled despite the spankings.  I was 30 before I was able to take responsibility for myself.  Spanking is lazy, disrespectful parenting.  I am strict with my little girl.  I require her to be well behaved and responsible.  We have a good relationship and she hates it when I am angry with her.  She knows violence is always wrong and that I would never hit her.   Yelling can be very effective in a hot-stove/busy-street situation as long as you don't yell very often.

Wow, there is some serious scientific extrapolation going on here.  I'm so sure everyone is prison was spanked.  30 years ago I was spanked, never been to prison, never been arrested...

Spanking out of anger=never okay.

Spanking with clear warning, with clear expectations, and not overly used; like maybe once or twice in their life=okay, in my book.

But, I also respect those of you who would never spank...personally, I would rather raise a child who is  VERY clear about limits and boundries than one who isn't. I have taked care of WAY to many spoiled, out of control, demanding, disrespectful kids whose parents let them walk all over them, THAT should be illegal.

Break  the rules as a child, get a swat. Break laws as an adult, go to jail. Are we or are we not preparing kids to behave well in society? What's with the over reactive rejection of discipline?  I have a healthy, happy, honest, loving  and smart pret-teen. He was spanked, with  the above in mind. I wouldn't  want  anyone to be extremist either way.  And what's with all the jugemental comments?  Live and let live folks.

Every afternoon when Emmeline goes down for a nap, I try to busy myself with writing, cleaning or baking sweet, delicious cupcakes. And by try , I mean I think about one of those things briefly before curling up in a fetal position and falling asleep

Of course it isn't ok to abuse/cause injury to your child. You always try positive reinforcement before entering the level of "consequences."

However, I have seen my child hurt herself and I have also hurt her unintentionally while trying to control her in a fit of rage. These fits of rage are usually because she has lost scope of rules and boundaries. Why the rage? Because kids just do that...they test to the point where rules and other consequences are completely disregarded. It's something I've seen many children go through. Guess what...those injuries where actual injuries -- bruises, scratches...kids can really hurt themselves if they want to. Now, give the uncontrollable child a "next level" of consequence, and they realize that they are not in control. The notion of a spanking alone has prevented the entire episode in our household many times.

Half of the arguments on this subject are due to misinterpretations of the other party's actions and intentions. A pat on the butt verses hitting your spouse? C'mon, that's a B.S. comparison and you know it. A simple pat on the butt is nothing but a "next-level of consequence" for misbehaving...not abuse. I talk to my daughter about this. She knows that spankings are not meant to hurt her. She knows that we don't just hand out spankings whenever. Yep, a 3 year old understands this. She doesn't particularly like it, but she is well aware of why we do it. Why can't you understand it?

You have twisted the definition of abuse to represent your argument...good for you.

So since I was spanked as a child I'll be depressed as an adult, go to jail and when I have children be a bad parent?