Strollerderby

I took my 15 month old son to a FAMILY restaurant yesterday with my mother, and I thought he was being remarkably well-behaved. He let out a few shouts, but they were happy shouts, so that's okay, right? Not according to the women sitting behind us, who felt the need to loudly say to her husband, "If that kid yells one more time, I'm going to freak out"! I was so mad I almost started crying right there. What am I supposed to do, keep him inside the house until he turns 18? Give him a laryngectomy? I'm sure she was quiet as a church mouse when she was a baby.

I've had my run-ins with those who insist that they have a right to a child-free existence. To me that's tantamount to resigning from the species. You know, these kids are the ones who are going to be the doctors and lawyers and auto mechanics when we're old and gray. If they hate them so much now, I suggest they just refrain from visiting any professional younger than themselves until they drop dead.

Well, you do realize that those loud-and-proud child-free people never made a peep in a restaurant themselves. And no one ever held the door for their mother pushing a stroller or stopped for them in a crosswalk. And they ALWAYS stayed in their yard. So why should they expect to treat other kids differently?

For a clarification:

This should be titled "Childfree and Bitchy" - childless is the term used for couples/individuals that are unable to have children and cannot afford adoption... they are not choosing to be childfree - the term that is used forcouples/individuals that specifically choose not to have children.

I am childLESS... and greatly resent the idea of being lumped into the wrong category.

Edited: Thanks to an enlightening comment, the title is now changed to : ChildFREE adn bitchy..

What amazes me is that the ones who are "childless and bitchy" as you put it often can't see that their behavior is worse than the children they hate so much. Their writing nasty little diatribes about kids and parents is just as rude and offensive as they find the kids who dare to cross their path. They are selfish, self absorbed, and inconsiderate always thinking that everyone and everything in the world revolves around them. Everyone must cater to their desire to never be anywhere near a child or the parents who breed them. To always have the PUBLIC  environment to their personal liking because they themselves never do anything in public that would bother others - never snore on an airplane, never fart and dart, never talk too loudly on a cell phone, never cut in line, never cut someone off on the freeway, never  snatch the last of an item off a shelf from someone, etc.

Yes, there are some parents who just don't care and let their kids run wild and out of control. Most of the time the parents are doing their best and their kids are just being kids, but someone who hates kids will never understand they aren't born being the perfect upstanding well behaved saints that the "childless and bitchy" seem to thing they themselves are.  

Newsflash to the Childfree:

Nobody but your mother gives a shit that you don't want to have children.  Everybody else is just making conversation.

This post was so vague I had no choice but to click on the link to see what was up. I found the blog to be pretty snarky and sarcastic, but not totally off target for those who are truly rude and thoughtless (who, btw, would probably never read it in the first place.) But it was a harmless little rant--it's not like this ran on the front page of the NY Times or anything. I'm not really sure of the point of ADVERTISING something you disagree with. You're sending more traffic over there...why? So you can feel superior?

I kinda think you and Childfree are pretty similar in your attitude. Different points of view, but same snark and self-importance.

I've had too many run-ins with people like this, and I've only been a parent for about 11 months. Because most of our friends don't have children, it's hard to find a sympathetic ear. So thank you for writing this. It's nice to know that other people have a problem with this as well...for a second I thought I was just supposed to suck it up. The worst time was when this saleslady at a store rudely complained about a baby crying. We were at friggin Marshall's and it was my baby! My husband was escorting her to the parking lot just as the clerk started ranting about it. I calmly said "That's actually my baby. She's just tired and her dad is taking her for a walk outside." She replied by saying that the baby sounded hungry and I should feed her. "Do you have kids?" Uh, no. But I've been around them a lot. "Alright then." I ended up reporting her to the manager, because frankly, I don't need to spend my money at any place that can't handle children. It's their perogative to be ass hats, but it's mine to take my business elsewhere.

I was on a plane with my one-year-old on Sunday at 3pm.  It was past her naptime, the plane was hot, and she was getting cranky.  I held her in my arms and sang in order to stave off the impending meltdown--and it was working!  I had been singing as quietly as I could for approximately 1.5 minutes (we hadn't even buckled our seatbelts yet) when the lady in front of me turned around and snarled (she actually snarled) "Do you think you can NOT sing for the entire flight?"  Really?  No, I mean, really?

FSE- I would've asked if she would prefer the crying. I would probably cried, myself, though...

Some people are idiots. Maybe someone should've come to your defense and asked that "lady", "Do you think you can NOT be an asshole for the entire flight?"  

I bet she couldn't do it.

i agree with Critical. childfree people AND parents could both use a little more patience.

people who don't have kids just don't know how taxing it can be. people who have kids don't always realize how inappropriate their child's behavior is sometimes. of course there are extreme examples of people being super rude (like the lady on the plane that asked mom to quit singing), but lots of us constantly run into parents who let their kids run over them and ME if i am in the way!

I am childfree by choice, but LOVE and ADORE children.  My friend informed a large group of people at a party that "Diane Hates Kids, she only likes mine".  !!!!!!  I was upset, her two kids are my godchildren.

This happened to me and my husband out of all places...in Disneyland! My son was 2 yrs old at the time and it was in the evening after we had spent the whole day there so he had missed his nap and was cranky. We took the train around Disneyland and he started crying and fussing. A woman two rows in front of us kept turning around and giving us the evil eye! I kept my mouth shut but wanted to say something so bad. Again, this was in Disneyland where there are more kids than adults! We got off the next stop just to avoid her glares! Why must people do this???

I USED to have a problem with people's loud children until my sister had 2 of her own, its just that I wasn't used to being around children. Those Child-free people are actually ignorant, they don't know that babies are supposed to make loud noises when happy, sad, or any emotion. We should almost feel sorry for them, they just don't understand. But I did say ALMOST.

I never wanted children until I met my husband. After we had been married a year our biological clocks kicked in. Our baby is now 13 months old and is a very well behaved baby. We had decided that we would learn from the parents that annoyed us, i.e. the parents who let their kids run rampant and the parents who would just sit in restaurants and let their kids cry, that sort. We are working hard to make sure our daughter knows rules and respect. If she is cranky, we see the signs before she gets out of hand and take her outside or leave. It isn't that hard to take time to respect others. On the other hand, that doesn't mean that those people without kids (and I have even seen some with) that make the remarks about the children being children. Children learn from the actions that the parents take, and I like to just chock it up to those people had parents who expected their children to be adults like mine did.

And I do have to add about the woman on the airplane. I have had someone make comments to me and my baby. My daughter was just a few months old and was sleeping. I went to a restaurant and a woman said to her husband "Why did we have to be seated next to a baby?" and I turned to my friend and said "Why did they have to sit a raunchy bitch next to us?" They left. I didn't mind at all.

wow....parents are cranky.  maybe you need the nap? i am childless NOT BY CHOICE and i adore having kids run and play.  i have glass and breakables in my house. you know what? if you bring your kid over and something breaks, OH WELL.  what's the point of being upset?  kids are kids. let them run. let them play. let them explore. it's usually the overly-doting parents that drive the childless up a wall.  

I have children and love children in all of their stages. It is mostly the mothers I take exception to, not the children. Some women believe because they reproduced and the care of their children is so difficult and they are so unique in having to actually care for their children themselves, that their children can behave obnoxiously and they are entitled to do so just by the virtue of being mommy's little angel. Get real, not everyone is in love with your child as you and the awful behaviors you find to be cute are just annoying to many others.

WOW!!!  Have you got it all wrong.  I have two children and for the most part can't stand alot of other peoples children.  What is wrong with some of these parents?  My children were disiplined and talk respect from a very early age and I never spanked or slapped them.  They were disiplined with alot of love.  If they misbehaved in public, they were removed from the situation.  Small infants can't help it, but if they are sick and screaming then why are they out in public in the first place. people who hate children are definitely the minority.  I know plenty of people who choose to be childless and love children.  The woman who wrote this article needs to understand that you have no right to inflict your social choice on other people.  Stop running over us with you massive strollers. Stop thinking that handicap seating on mass transit is for you and your stroller.  They are for people with true disabilities.  Stop bringing your sick and screaming children to public places, because you feel that it more important to do what you want than to take proper care of your child. Stop making excuses for there bad behavior.  And yes, some of these kids will take care of us when we get old, but alot of them will just grow up to be criminals and assholes.  

this is for esther.  You need to be more tolerant also.  Mabey the woman in the restaurant had a mental illness that she couldn't help.  If you want people to tolerate your child then you need to be more tolerant.  No one owes you anything for getting pregnant.  

sherry, apparently you think the world should revolve around you because you have children.  before you open your mouth, think about what you are saying.

I think what happens is that as a parent you as so used to being around "childlike" behaviors, crying, screaming, running loose, etc.. that you don't notice how annoying it is to those who aren't.  If your child is laying in the isle screaming in the department store, put down the blouse and leave the store.  Don't pretend you don't hear that.

I am childfree and used to be quite bitchy about having loud kids around. But then my brothers and sisters starting having families and the little nieces and nephews arrived and I was still being grouchy about it. I resented my boyfriend's children and all kids. But then a friend of mine told me "children are always a blessing" and thought about all the women I know that want to have children and can't... well, I finally realized kids are kids and will behave as so. I'm ok with children around me now and at worse, tolerate them, but never make hurtful remarks to their parents. Whatever I may think, I think it's better I keep it to myself and don't go around ruining people's day

Way to go, Colleen!  I agree with you.  (I am a mother of a 6 month old).  

Well, we all start out as children.  It's an intrinsic part of being a human.  So, all these child haters better get a grip and deal with reality.  I don't get it.  Hating children is a completely unreasonable mind-set.  You don't have to want to become a parent, but sorry, you're going to have to come to terms with the fact that they exist and that they, yes, behave like children.  We were all one once.  It's an attitude that is way too self-centered for me to respect.

Have you ever considered there are rude people in the world both with and without children?  While we don't have kids I am  lucky enough to be surrounded by many nieces, nephews and godchildren.  My friend's children have a special place in my part as well.  Does that mean that when we go out for an expensive dinner at 9 pm that I want to do it with your toddler because your babysitter canceled last minute?  No!  I am the first person on a plane to offer assistance to a stressed out mother but when on a flight with a mother who sat a row away from her three children who proceeded to fight with each other, kick the seat in front of them AND mouth off to the flight attendant...do you really expect others to sit back?  I know people with children who are more intolerant of other's children then I would ever be.  This is just another attempt at turning parents against non-parents.

Oh and btw...if you want to see/hear bitchy, the looks and comments I get from people when I tell them we have chosen to not have children, I am confident I could top your best story!  Stop perpetuating the hate and instead focus on RUDE people not CHILDFREE people, they are not one in the same.

Ok, first I have to stick up for my childfree brethren - not all of us childfree people hate kids. I have chosen to not have children because being a mom was never a desire for me, but I in no way hate kids. I adore my 15 month old nephew and used to teach children of all ages martial arts for 5 years. I think kids are extraordinary creatures. However, this is what I hate: a screaming child during a movie, unruly children in restaurants and other public places (family friendly or not, children do not need to be running amok while parents simply look the other way), and childern who are disrespectful or just plain rude. Obviously it's the parents that have chosen not to teach their kids how to behave in public, so I place the blame on them, not the child. But, please, don't lump all of us together - just because I've chosen not to have kids doesn't mean I hate the fact you did.

You wanted 'em....we didn't. Keep your smelly little snotty little bacteriological factories at home.

Ok,I just read all comments.  Thought I would give my own opinion.  I am a mom of 2 great, responsible adult children, 26 & 30! I taught school, preschool, daycare, etc. for many years-love children. I believe what people with or without children do not love is the behavior.  Most of that is the responsibility of the parents. It appears these days that many parents don't have respect for other people and let their children do whatever they want. I, too, want to go out to dinner without a two-year old jumping up and down on the booth behind us or a couple of little ones who can't sit still and are allowed to run around the tables at a restaurant-simply not acceptable.  But, it is the parents responsbility. I truly believe respect for others is the issue and not the lack of love for children. My issue would be with the parents.  It is much easier to let children do whatever they want than to take the time to teach manners and respect. When these children have children it probably will only be worse. Across the board, people (parents or not) need to be more aware of other people and show respect.  When they show it, their children will learn it.

I agree with some of the other people's comments.  It's not the children that grate my nerves...it's the parents.  I understand that babies cry because it's the only way they can communicate.  I understand that children want to exlpore and play (within reason, of course.  restaurants, grocery and department stores should not be viewed as a playground).  I'm fine with that.  It's the parents who act as though they are the only people on the planet who have ever given birth and we must bow down and throw rose petals at their feet.  They can be just as rude as those who make snide remarks about children. Case in point:  I was at a Starbucks and had just been handed my (very) hot cup of coffee when a small boy ran directly into me, almost causing me to spill my (very) hot cup of coffee either on myself or on the child.  I smiled at the boy and said, very nicely, "Opps, be careful."  The child's mother reacted as though I had just spit into her child's face.  "Don't you talk to my child that way!  He wasn't doing anything wrong! What's your problem?!"  I, as calmly as I could, told the mother that she needed to relax and walked out of the shop as she continued to screech at me.

In todays work-force you are the ones that 1) call in do to some family problem 2) tell employers when and when you can't work. 3) complain that you are tired all the time 4) and last but not least are short on money because of either missed work or a poor planed family budget. Oh I forgot....

new home and two new cars and mutltiple kids equal forclosure sign in front yard...

I dont remember our parents generation or their parents generation having these problems. They planed and saved then had kids........

The writer of this blog must be that lady that sits in a restaurant and talks on her cell phone while her four brat children shriek and snivel while she pretends she doesn't hear them. *rolls eyes* I’m a mother, I have a ten month old and she does not cause a spectacle in any public place. You “mothers” need to catch a clue the world doesn’t owe you anything! You are the extremer case, opposite to the example of the woman on the airplane. Nobody thinks your child is cute but you! If your child is hollering remove it, and don’t take children to places where they don’t belong! If I have to sit through another movie with a screaming I’m going to slap the “mother”, babies do not belong in the theater.

Speaking of spitting in the face...I was one spit on by 3-year old when I asked her as nicely as possible to get off the bunkbed (at a furniture store where I worked).  She spit at me and I was dumbfounded.  After raising my two kids, teaching 100's of others, I could find no words. The parent explained that she was the product of a divorce and that she also spits on her teacher and sometimes bites her-she can't help it because of the divorce.  What?? I am divorced and my children never spit on anyone.  Then the parent asked the child if she still wanted to go get ice cream?  What?? Are you kidding me?  Like I said before, you need to teach respect and rewarding spitting or other unacceptable behavior with ice cream just won't cut it. Again, it has nothing to do with hating children-it's the parents.  Is my point getting across to the writer?

I am childless by choice and do not consider myself bitchy.  What I am is tired of parents who want to have kids but do not want to change their lifestyle.  I know this may come as a shock to some parents but there are places kids do not belong.  We were recently celebrating our 7th wedding anniversary with dinner at a very nice and pricy restaurant.  It was 8:30 on a Saturday night and there were 2 screaming kids under the age of 2 in the restaurant.  Please tell me why some parents think that was an appropriate thing to do.  It's not the kids that irritate me, it's the parents who do not want to take full ownership of all the responsibilities and lifestyle adjustments necessary to support their decision to have kids.      

I'm 36 and childless, though not because I hate children, but because I know and accept that I wouldn't be a good parent. Mostly because I'm not done living my life for me yet.

I don't hate children, but I find it hard to enjoy the company of parents that let their kid squall at the top of their lungs directly into the ear of the person seated next to them in a restaurant, or on a plane or in a movie theater. Obviously, there's times when it can't be helped. Babies will sometimes cry for no Earthly reason whatsoever. That said, you can take the kid outside or at least try to calm him/her down, for the sake of the people around you.  Maybe I want to eat a nice meal without the tears and crying that don't seem to bother you in the least.  Maybe I want to hear some of the dialogue in the movie I just paid $10 to see.

I have a niece and nephew (1 and 3 respectively) and I love them to death. But even the fact that I'm related to them doesn't keep my eyes from rolling into the back of my head when they cry. Not because I hate them, but because I'm not able to block out that noise, nor am I able to make it stop.

I'm 36 and childless, though not because I hate children, but because I know and accept that I wouldn't be a good parent. Mostly because I'm not done living my life for me yet.

I don't hate children, but I find it hard to enjoy the company of parents that let their kid squall at the top of their lungs directly into the ear of the person seated next to them in a restaurant, or on a plane or in a movie theater. Obviously, there's times when it can't be helped. Babies will sometimes cry for no Earthly reason whatsoever. That said, you can take the kid outside or at least try to calm him/her down, for the sake of the people around you.  Maybe I want to eat a nice meal without the tears and crying that don't seem to bother you in the least.  Maybe I want to hear some of the dialogue in the movie I just paid $10 to see.

I have a niece and nephew (1 and 3 respectively) and I love them to death. But even the fact that I'm related to them doesn't keep my eyes from rolling into the back of my head when they cry. Not because I hate them, but because I'm not able to block out that noise, nor am I able to make it stop.

This discussion is pitiful.  People are being unnecessarily rude.  Some of you are saying the most disgusting things.  Fred, I'm talking to you.  Who cares what anyone thinks?  Have kids.  Don't have kids.  I don't care what you do.  If you don't want to encounter screaming/misbehaving children, annoying senior citizens, smelly people, smokers, or any other person that may not behave in what YOU consider to be socially acceptable MOVE TO PLUTO! A public place is a public place.  You don't own Earth.  Ever think that perhaps people consider YOU to be an asshole?  Kids used to annoy the hell out of me (sometimes still do) but I realize now that an ill-behaved child is the product of his/her environment.  I'm 8 months pregnant now and when I have my child I dare someone to tell me how to raise my child.  Everyone's so damn self-righteous.  Who told you that you were special?  We all deserve stress-free, peaceful, enjoyable environments--we don't always get what we want.  Friggin' get over it already!  Geez...

All you whinning mothers can deal with the decisions you made. I didn't force you to have children, you decided to do it so stop complaining about being tired, fat, no sex-life, changing diapers, cleaning spit-up and whatever other issues you have. YOU CHOSE IT.  Now, because of YOUR CHOICE, I have to deal with your kids who are completly undisiplined. Why would you ever take a baby to a restaurant? My mother NEVER took me to a restaurant until I was old enough to understand how to behave in public. Hey, it's just too bad for you if you want to eat out. Hire a babysitter or just...don't...go...

Again, who made this choice? YOU DID. Why then must I suffer in a restaurant listening to your kid whine, cry, watch him/her throw food and ruin my dining experience? Talk about self-absorbed...that describes about 80% of today's parents.  Bottom line?  Quit your whinning and deal with the decision YOU made.  If I hear one...more..parent...whine and complain about getting dirty looks from other people or having to deal with the "childless" I'll go insane. This is your world....you created it....so DEAL. Disipline your kid, don't take them in situations where there is going to be a problem and deal with the fact that maybe you can't go to a restaurant/movie with a baby.

CHILDREN AREN'T ALWAYS THE PROBLEM.  OVERINDULGENT PARENTS ARE SOMETIMES WORSE.  WELL-BEHAVED CHILDREN ARE JUST FINE IN MY BOOK.  THAT SAID; THERE ARE APPROPRIATE PUBLIC PLACES FOR CHILDREN AND THERE ARE PLACES THAT SHOULD BE FOR ADULTS ONLY.WHEN I'M AT A FIVE STAR RESTAURANT DRINKING A $200 BOTTLE OF WINE AND TRYING TO ENJOY SOME AMAZING FOOD AND ATMOSPHERE, I SURE AS HELL DON'T WANT ANYONE'S SCREAMING KIDS ANYWHERE NEAR ME.  THEY DON'T BELONG THERE. GO TO RED LOBSTER.

TO ADDRESS THE OPINION THAT CHILDLESS PEOPLE ARE SELF-ABSORBED...GUESS WHAT.THIS IS AMERICA.EVERYONE IS SELF-ABSORBED, IT'S WHAT OUR CULTURE IS BUILT UPON.  

PARENTS: EVEN THOUGH YOU THINK EVERY LITTLE THING LITTLE JOHNNY OR SUZY DOES IS WONDERFUL AND ADORABLE, NOT EVERYONE AGREES WITH YOU.  TEACH YOUR KIDS HOW TO BEHAVE IN PUBLIC FOR OUR SAKE AS WELL AS THEIRS. yOU DON'T WANT THEM GROWING UP TO BE COMPLETE ASSHOLES WHO THINK THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WHENEVER THEY WANT, DO YOU?  AND CHILDLESS PEOPLE: IF THE KIDS ARE BEHAVING, LEAVE IT ALONE.  IF THEY'RE BEING LITTLE TYRANTS, TAKE A LOOK AT THE PARENTS. THEY'RE THE ONES THAT SHOULD KNOW BETTER.

Now hold on!  Yes, people who are irritated by kids in general ought to check their bonnets for unnessecary bees, but sometimes they have legitimate complaints.  When you've got kids running around, opening sugar packets on other people's food or the like, complaints are more than justified.  A little fussing here and there though should be left alone, true, and there is a point where complaining is just being bitchy, but parents should try and teach their kids "NO!" about the more extreme behaviors, and many fail to even try these days.

Way to go Tess!!! I have a child and I sgree with what Tess said! My daughter is well-behaved when we go out in public. She is NOT allowed to run around anywhere we go and she uses manners and is quiet and respectful of others. I love children, but I can't stand some peoples kids! My neighbor has a daughter a few months older than mine and one day she called my daughter a bad word! I was really unhappy about it. We do not swear and call people names in my house. Teach your kids some manners and respect. Also, when did parents start letting society raising their kids? I believe in discipline!!!!

Well I would just like to say that I am child free, and am around plenty of kids all the time babysit on a regular basis and love kids, I think what maybe is mis-understood, and no offense.. But I guess It's like this Why do mothers get special treatment, why do you get a special parking spot so you can pull closer because you chose to have children and I didn't, why do you get to leave work early for your children or get accomadating schedules because you are a mommy what do I get? Do I get to set my own schedule because I party and need fridays off to do it? Also Mommy's think the world revolves around them and there kids.. and you always get the I dont get to take a nap.. well I do, I am not rich just because I dont have kids either and I dont have tons and tons of free time so maybe Mommy's need to look at thereselves you know its a choice to be a parent not a handicap, and I think that sometimes you forget your single friends and family members have lives that are just as stressful as yours... When I read these comments I hear a lot of poor mommy me... so as you talk about the childless people maybe you should be looking in your mirror before judging...

I don't have em, and I don't like em.  But I do stay out of the areas that seem to be runover with them. I do get angry when they invade "adult" places. Parents have to realize that when they make the decision to have children they have to adapt their lifestyles as well and not expect to drag them to thier adult events. Stay home or get a sitter.

Josie:  You have such a crappy attitude about people who choose to have a family.  I am the mother of three number four on the way.  I do not call in sick unless it is an emergency.  In the passed six years I have called in sick a total of 10 times. That means I worked over 1530 days.  

All people whether they have children or not tell their boss if there is a day they can't work  for family problems or occasions.  Unless you have no sisters, brothers, parents, cousins, etc then you may have to go to a wedding out of town, funeral out of town, etc.  

As for foreclosures, last time I checked not all the people losing houses have children.  Could it be the crapy economy that we have thanks to a inappropriate war we are waging?  

For all you people complaining that parents need to change their lifestyles, etc because they have children, get a clue.  Parents can go out to a restaurant, shopping, gallery if they want to.   Children learn when they are exposed to different things.

Where I agree a child who is screaming should not be in the movies and restaurants, I find I am just as annoyed by people talking loudly on their cell phones in movies, restarants, etc.  

But being an adult I understand that I am not going to get what I want all the time especially in PUBLIC.  

I love this discussion. The funniest part is all the "Childless and B*tchy" people coming onto a *PARENTING* website to say how horrid kids are. Ha!

How many of you complainers ever felt cranky in stressful situations? Sitting on a runway on a hot airplane. A long line at the store. Babies simply can't cope like we can. They cry. They squirm. They scream. I know I've wanted to at times.

Plus, yeah, there are obnoxious parents out there who let their kids do whatever they want. There are also obnoxious single/childfree people exactly like that, too. How many times has my dinner conversation been interrupted by a dude screaming into his cell phone? How 'bout that chick who double parks her car in fron of mine so she can grab Starbucks? Point is, it's not just the parents out there who feel entitled. EVERYBODY DOES!

alwayssmilin0910

Are you for real?!  You are whining because a parent gets the closer parking because they a young baby?!   If you want a day off, ask your boss.  If you want to go to a party and want to leave early, ask your boss.  

Don't tell me you have never asked your boss for a day off for a family obligations.  They do not come only because you have children.  

I have not read any posts that indicate parents are the only ones with stress in their lives.  I do see a lot of people who do not have children by choice telling people who have them that they have to change their lifestyles and not go to public places because their children might cry and laugh to loud and bother someone.  

Adults are the main problem, not the chilren.  If parents were not afraid to discipline their kids so much, there would be less problems with children in public.  

As I said a few hours ago, it all comes down simply to respect for other people-parents or not.  This value is very missing in today's society. Many of your comments are proving it to be unfortunately true.  If you give respect, you get respect.  I know, it's old-fashioned.  But it makes for nicer people.

I think that what people should take from this discussion is to give others a little more tolerance and respect.  For example I would never bring my son (until he is older and knows better) to a nice restaurant after his bed time, or to a movie. I'm a mom and I don't want to hear someone else's child screaming during a movie when I have finally found someone to babysit for me.  Because I try to respect other's and their experiences I ask others to be somewhat tolerant of my child and I. I was at the YMCA for a children's swim class and my son who is 16 months was walking down the stairs holding my hand.  It was a weekday morning, not busy, and I had an old man give me the evil eye and tell me to hurry up. I told him that there was nobody else on the stairs and he was welcome to go around us.  Sometimes kids need experiences outside of the home.  

As a parent I ask other parents to be respectful of the places they go and to ask others to be a little tolerent.  You were a kid once too.  

There are many parents (i live in San Francisco, where people have a strange sense of entitlement...) who insist on taking their children out to nice restaurants. If you can afford a $50 meal at Boulevard, you can afford a freaking baby sitter. Just because you think he’s the most amazing thing in the world doesn't mean the rest of us do.  

Look, I feel for the mother with a baby on plane & the baby won't stop crying.  No need to give her looks because she’s probably horrified & frustrated herself.  There is nothing she can do, but if you are at a restaurant and you baby is screaming his ass off...be nice enough to remove yourself... I’m sorry but putting up with your child’s tantrum that is not fair to the rest of the people in the establishment.  I’m not an extremist, I don’t mind cute child coos, kids laughter.  I realize that some kids talk loud. I think people who find that annoying are just jerks but a restaurant is no place for screaming, or tantrums.  You shouldn’t be allowed to ruin everyone else’s meal with you screaming child.

Last week I had a mom complain that because she had 3 kids with her ( one being kind of whiny), I should have let her go in front of me in the grocery store line.( I had 7 items, she had a cartful) She had the nerve to lecture me on how thoughtless I was.  Just because I don't have kids does not mean I get to give stuff up for hers. She chose to have 3 children, chose to deal with the stress and complications that come with that.  I chose not too, but just because I don't have kids doesn't mean I do not deal with my own set of difficulties and complications.

Some parents (Not all) have a strange sense of entitlement, and expect me to accommodate them for being parents.  I’m sorry; I’m not going to let you go in from of me in the grocery store with you 500 items just because your 5 year old cannot behave.

I'm going to take a wild guess that:

1) The angry childfree folks were horrid children;

2) The angry mommies were horrid children;

3) The considerate, reasonable childfree folks were nice, well-behaved children;

4) The considerate, reasonable mommies were nice, well-behaved children.

I must say, as a child free woman in her younger twenties, I see how some of the other childless people out there can be, and it is wild that some of them have absolutely no patience. There is a HUGE difference in parents that do nothing about bad behavior, and kids just being kids. For the parents sakes, I wish other people could see it this way as well. It is not only rude, but embarassing to be around one of those people that are intolerant to a childs cry every now and then. The comments, the looks, they're just completely unecessary. Who knows, though. Some day, some of these people MAY just have a kid, then they will know.

TOLERANCE IS KEY!!! GET OVER YOURSELF!!!!   :)

I am of the mind that very young children should not fly because it hurts their ears and is a wholly unpleasant experience both for the child and the passengers. As far as restaurants are concerned I believe there are ad hoc differentiations: If the restaurant's atmosphere is quiet and subdued, the joint has every right to intervene if the actions of one individual ruins the experience of everyone else. However if the place happens to be the HardRock then it's a non-issue.

I am 24 with no children and most children out don't bother me, but it does drive me crazy when parents bring their children to inappropriate places.  Like fancy restaurants or movies at 11 at night.  There are some places that I'm not allowed to go-sure I would love to go play in the play thing at McDonald's but with no kid I look really stupid, so is it so hard to make a few places still be adult only?

YOU KNOW, ABORTION IS LEGAL.. USE IT...

Do you feel annoyed when you go to places with noisy, obnoxious teens?  Well think about it, they are people children also.

If you have to question why people don't like your children, you didn't need to have any because of your immaturity.  It was your choice to have a child and others do not have to love your children or tolerate their behavior.

Do you feel annoyed when you go to places with noisy, obnoxious teens?  Well think about it, they are people children also.

If you have to question why people don't like your children, you didn't need to have any because of your immaturity.  It was your choice to have a child and others do not have to love your children or tolerate their behavior.

Girls, im Asian and childfree by choice, round of applause for that please its practically impossible to be both!

I have actually seen my elders share that look of horror when they see "some" kids screaming/swearing or lashing out at parents. When i ask, they say, that "stern look" and "spank on the bottom" took care of all naughtiness back then, but even they wouldnt know what to do with most of the behaviour they see now in kids. Personally I think noone likes rude people. Babies are ofcourse ok, its kids after the age of i dont know 4 or 5, who should be taught some social manners by parents so they learn how to behave outside the house. A bit of that and a bit of respect and tolerance on both sides and we wouldnt be having this discussion.

BUNNY: I come under considerate,reasonable childfree folk but was a horribly sulky child according to my mom.(ofcourse i dont beleive her;-))

I too do not know why people get so pissy when a child is with a 20 perimeter if them. I mean people should expect children to be around in places like the mall, or family restaurants. its not like they're busting in through your window unexpectedly and running around in your living room or anything

I would gladly move to one of those 55 and older communities but I am not allowed since I'm only 25. I don't necessarily hate all children, I think most are adorable, what irritates me is those moms that let their kids do whatever they want and never let them know what is good and bad behavior.

I have 3 kids.  As much as I love my children I have never thought my children are angels who can do no wrong.  They are kids and will get into trouble.  It is my job to direct them, teach them, discipline them, and make sure they stay safe.   I'm just glad I haven't had a run in with a person who hates children because I have no idea what I would do.  

My oldest is autistic and when he has a meltdown we immediately leave and go home.  So far, knock on wood, every one has been understanding.  I try not to take him to places he is not familiar with though.  

My only problem is having someone yell at me because I work.  I have been "tutored" so many times about a mothers place is in the home not in the work place.  I just smile and say thank you and walk away.

Life is way too short to argue and fight about some things.

I agree with the reasonable remarks posted.

Just please, if you're a parent, don't allow your kids to rollerblade and scooter really fast around a busy grocery store. It's dangerous for them, and it's obnoxious when you're stepping out of an isle and some little kids are zooming around on wheels, almost crashing into everyone. The other people are all dodging these kids because God-forbid, if the kid slams into them and gets hurt (by say a falling bottle of juice on their head)it's going to somehow end up being the adult's fault.

Nobody mentioned that it costs over $500,000 to raise a chile to age 18 (not including College). Is it worth losing your house by getting pregnant, or making the tax payers pay for your kid?

kids are annoying. so is your kid. you just cant say it.

Hmmm. There are a lot of unhappy people out there. Can I throw some fuel on the fire by saying a lot of people I know who actively dislike children are having a lot of trouble growing up themselves?!

Ouch! Think about it objectively for moment. They don't want to share their space or time with kids, and they chuck a tantrum when they don't get their own way.

Having said that, I was at a cafe for lunch today where two other mums let their 5 kids run about like mad things. It was very hard to take.

Watching the kids it was easy to see they were genuinely having a ball and making good memories to keep. I love that.

BUT parents, come on!! When you are in public, when you are in a cafe, there are rules of behavior and if you can't get your kids to follow them with gentle (but firm) instruction, then the only polite thing to do is pack up and get out. Be and adult and teach your kids that the fun stops immediately when they can't control themselves.

Easy. Be consistent with it and you'll be surprised at how quickly you can visit you local cafe with you kids without the patrons all groaning and scowling at you. (Some drawing paper and pens help too - for the kids that is, not the other patrons).

I am going to start by saying that I am childless, and no I do not hate children. I am one of six kids myself and I do know that kids whine and cry and throw fits. But you know what, I think that when parents have their kids in public they need to behave, why do i have to respect your right to let your kid throw a fit, but you dont have to respect my right to have a nice dinner at a restaurant without hearing your kid cry. If you cannot handle your child, DO NOT bring them in public. If you want to have them act like hethens leave them at home, and let them annoy the shit out of you. It is very rude to bring your child somewhere and let them run and cry. And dont say kids will be kids. Kids understand how to behave if it is something you enforce at home, but if they never eat at the table at home, what makes you think they are going to at a restaurant. Oh and to those people with their children at wal-mart at midnight saying "man, i just dont know why he is so fussy" uhhh... im no genius...but maybe it is because you have him at walmart at midnight and not at home in bed where he should be. People with kids are insensitive, not people without. If you kid cant behave in public, well then yes...they shouldnt leave the house until after they are 18.

My adult daughter and her husband are child free by choice.  This decision was actively made by the both of them from their years of babysitting.  They were both the preferred sitters in their neighborhoods because they had boundaries for the children in their care.  It was a lucritive first job for both of them.  As a result of being the best childcare providers back then was that they ended up raising most ofthe children in their respective neighborhoods!  At one time, my daughter was nanny for 3 wonderful girls (2 had moderate to severe neurological and physical disabilities), when another mother would arbitrarily drop off her out-of-control twins (who also had a reputation for bringing guns to school!) because my daughter was "the only one who control those boys...."  

Parents have the responsiblity of planning ahead and taking their children to appropriate places.  

My daughter's greatest complaint is timing.  For example, when she wants to go to a movie and jdeliberately chooses later times to avoid young children yet families bring their children to R-rated or late night shows where the children are obviously over-tired and really should be home sleeping.   Her other concern is the violence that parents are deliberately exposing their children.  

Similiar for restaurants and shopping:  she chooses to go out at later times, yet she must endure exhausted babies.  

But the most blatent experience was when she went to a department store and an out of control 3 year old ran right up to her and kicked her hard in the shins!  the attending parents didn't apologize or gather up their spawn; they acted like it didn't even happpen!

one more response....as the parent of adult children, I do not encourage them to procreate for some perceived-inherent need that I may have to be a grandparent.  I have no desire to be a grandparent and i refuse to put that kind of pressure on my children.

by the way, I'm a school counselor.  I love working with kids and watching them grow into wonderful personalities.  I also recognize that parenting skills are taking a nose-dive in my community and the immersion parents who take parenting seriously are becoming the minority.

Nothing pierces the air & disrupts a nice professional conversation faster that a brat screaming in the background, and/or parents who don't care that their child is disruptive: restaurants, airplanes, shopping, movies: all the things that we PAY to do shouldn't be compromised by extremely annoying, piercing interruptions. I go out of my way to let people know that they are infringing on my right as a polite member of a working society when their offspring disrupts what I'm paying to enjoy or do.

Keep in mind: they are your precious little treasures, but to us child-free & happy people, they are worse that rats without leashes (at least the rats are quiet!). I will go out of my way to legally make someone feel disruptive if they are or cannot control their out-of-line child. Period.

There are those of us who choose not to have children and yet have no problem with other people having children or with their children.  Apparently it's assumed that I hate kids because I don't want my own, which is insulting and shortsighted.  I used to teach preschool, I was a substitute teacher for a time, and I enjoy kids very much.  I'm just not ready to come home to one every night, and maybe I never will be.  You know what?  It doesn't make me a bad person and it doesn't mean I'm inconvenienced by your kid.

And why is it considered appropriate for mothers to bombard me with questions about when I'll have kids and why I don't want them?  Could you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot?  

I think that parenting should be reserved for those who are ready financially and emotionally to put a child's life first for the rest of his or her life.  If I don't have a burning desire to do just that, I'm not going to give it a go just so I can fit in or be treated like I'm not selfish, spoiled, and self-aborbed.  There are plenty of craptastic parents out there - some of us don't feel the need to add to that category.

Amen (above to J's comment)

I resent being lumped into a huge category of people who don't have kids are automatically bitchy.  How completly rude.  I don't have kids because I CAN'T get pregnant, and it's the most painful aspect of my entire life.  I can't afford adoption.  I've never treated anyone badly in public because of their kids, and I'm offended to hear that so many people with kids assume that those of us unlucky ones who will never be able to experience the joy of having kids assume we're all a bunch of a-holes.  Nice attitude!

Sherry, Sherry, Sherry.  Talk about hateful diatribes!  

This is directed to "Happy with Kids"  Dont use this article to start blaming the war for peoples inability to pay there bills.  People in this country to often feel entitled to everything whether they can afford it or not, including to many kids or kids at all.  If you lose your home and cant support your family you have no one to blame but yourself for being ill prepared.  Apparently you are one of those people who doesnt think anything is your fault, you just blame other people and the goverment.  Can't wait to see how your kids turnout.  Apparently you spend more time at work than raising them.  So who is raising them by the way.  Apparently other people that you can ultimately blame for you kids bad behavior.  If you are going to comment on an article, stick to the article.  Don't use it to voice your unsolicited political opinions.  By the way, i raised to kids and I stayed home and took care of them myself.  We didn't live beyond our means.  What happens when you lose you prcious job?  There will be a foreclosure sign in your yard and one more thing.  Who will be do your job while you stay home for 6 to 12 weeks to recooperate from your social choice????????????  

ERICA MARIE-  tolerance is key, so why dont parents of ill behaved children, be more toleratent of those who don't want to be run over by there kids.  Tolerance goes both ways!!  apparently you are single minded when it comes to tolerance.

BEAT YOUR KIDS!!!! from little start smacking them in the mouth, legs, ass!!! yes a little spanking goes a long way. oh and dont forget the "look". do that and if your child acts up 1st comes the look and if they dont get it together then comes the hand (or pinch like my grandmother used to do in church) whatever works. Pain pays off in discipline! remember that.

hello. all of you get a life, damn. life is to short to be so bitchy. no wonder most of you will end up divorced. if you spent as much time on your children as you do on this sight, maybe you would not have all these issues.some of you could use medication. there is alot of anger here. how sad, because your child is going to turn out just like you.

For all the parents who think child-free people are bitchy because you have annoying kids; we're bitchy for a reason. I am pretty sure I have the right to get upset if I can't hear my dinner partner speaking at a reasonable level because your baby feels the need to serenade the restaurant with their screaming. Uneccessary. If you have kids, you should be respectful of other people in public places. No one wants to hear a screaming baby. I have no problem with people having kids, but at least have the decency to raise them to respect their environment.

When I was little, and I screamed in a restaurant, you'd better believe I got my ass spanked right then and there. And you know what, I'm pretty well-behaved in public now, as are my siblings.

Also- ignoring your child is not a punishment for them. They get away with being disrespectful, and they piss off everyone around to the point where they want to smack you and your child. Try disciplining your child, not ignoring it. Most children act up because their needs are not being met, ignoring them will just make it worse.

All of you have WAY too much time on your hands! Can't we all just get along????

Thank you all for giving me a taste in what I will be entering into. It will help my husband and I when we choose to be parents. I am gathering as much information as I can. (Some of it might go out the window when I do become a mom, but I will try to remember it all)

First of all, for those who choose not to be parents. You are respected for your choice and are understandably upset when there are children who are not disciplined correctly. I also don't like it when children are allowed to run around with out parents telling them to behave. However, for those who think all children run into this catagory, please understand that not all children are raised the same and each parent has their own way of raising a child. If you see a child come into a restaurant, wait to see how the child will act. If the child is well behaved, then what is the problem? If the child is unruley, politely ask your server to be seated at another table away from the child. There is no reason to be catty or rude.

For mothers, you again are to be respected for your choice to have a child. I give thanks for the parents who do discipline their children. As for the ones who let their children run a muck, please be respectful to others and start keeping your children with you and ask them to be quiet. If you are having trouble handling your children, please remove them and comeback later or on another day when you have found somebody to watch them. I know it is understandably hard to be a parent and it is even harder when you get little to no help. But that doesn't mean that we have to let you early in line because your have a child. That doesn't mean you get a special parking space. I don't expect it when I have a child. I would like it if somebody holds a door for me to push a stroller through but I don't expect it.

If I have offended anybody with my comments, I apologize but this is my opinion. I don't expect everybody to be perfect, not even myself, but this is how I feel.

just start using bad language so the kids can hear you...their parents will gather them up and leave right away!  Works every time. :)

I really like what Collen said above. It's about behavior. Kids are fine when they are well behaved and I realize they can't always be that way, but too many parents try to push their kid's limits..When they are tired; take them home to sleep, when they are hungry; feed them, when they are cutting a tooth; leave them at Grandma's..or a sitter's to get groceries. Don't try to get that last half an hours errands done. You aren't done? Too bad.

I know it takes planning but if more people planned having kids maybe we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I really lose patience when parents scream or belittle a kid in public because they are tired and frustrated with them. I feel for the kid! Kids get bored easily, that's why they wander or want a treat in every store.

One last thing..I am brutually tired of people trying to convince me that I NEED to have a child because I don't know what I am missing!! I mean, who cares? Isn't it better to know it isn't for me, then to have one and realize ~ oops! I was right and now I am one of the frustrated, screaming mommies now too?

I'm glad I'm not the only parent who let's their children run amok in restaurants, stores and other public places.

In response to Benny and others, if  you don't have any children, you really are not in a position to judge whether a parent is not properly controlling her child in public.  Kids, especially toddlers, are very challenging and need to release energy almost constantly.  

I've reached a point where I take my child to appropriate places and if he acts up, he does.  I do my best and to hell with others who stare or make boring remarks.  What I find ironic is that our society likes to talk a good talk about families and children, blah, blah.  However, we do not live in a family friendly society.  

By the way, being a mom DOES NOT automatically mean that you will lose your looks, your figure, or any sense of independence.  You have to be very systematic with how you structure your life.  And you need to take care of yourself. A happy momma equals a happy family.  I am pretty sure many mothers regret having kids (it's okay, you can admit it) but many, many more are happy that they decided to have children of their own.  I've been around children all my life and I still want to have one of my own.  If she goes to Red Lobster and acts a fool guess what? It's my damn fault.  But if she is just a little fussy, I'm gonna finish my damn food and I don't care what you have to say about it.  There are pros and cons to everything.  Just because you never had kids and you never had to experience pregnancy doesn't mean you maintained a killer shape.  I know plenty of pregnant women (including me) and mommies who take very good care of themselves and look damn good.  Let's not generalize.  There are women who choose not to have children and women who can't.  There are women who were irresponsible and should NEVER procreate and women who have kids and are very satisfied with their decision.  This discussion should be about rude people, ill-behaved children, and irresponsible parents.  There are many of them out there.  I've seen extremely polite and well-behaved children out in public as well.  Are they the exception to the rule?  I believe they are.  I'm going to try to keep my child well-behaved in public, but sometimes kids are just tired/frustrated/hungry.  They don't have control over their emotions like we do.  Cut them some slack.  

Besides, if you can't bear with a little discomfort every now and then, YOU are the one acting like a child.

By the way, those of you who are using this as a forum to genuinely discuss what parents can do to show more consideration to the "childree" in public--everyone really (without being an asshole about it) are giving me a head's up.  I agree that it is my responsibility to plan my outings with my children and that I must be sensitive to the times of the day that I take my kids on excursions.  It wouldn't be smart to take my daughter to a late night movie, or to the mall late in the day if she hadn't had a nap.  Those points make sense.  Thanks for those insights.  I may not always to be able to adhere to those rules, but I do see the merit.  

Nice bitch session - glad you breeders get the opportunity to bond against the bitter childfree.

"There are plenty of ways our society doesn't embrace kids, from tough to find quality childcare to unsupportive family leave policies.  Momsrising notwithstanding, most people who choose to have kids these days cobble together their own semi-functional system of care and support that makes raising kids much harder than it was 30 years ago." Are you freakin' kidding me???

You must have forgotten what it was like not to have kids - especially in the working world. As one of MANY examples, I'm the one that gets asked to work late b/c everyone else "has to pick up the kids from daycare" and "you don't have anything else to do".  How about the financial support for maternity leave (which I will never be able to take advantage of)? Adoption support? Family Sick Leave? My company splits wellness by personal and dependent care. What, I miss an additional 5 days of wellness available to parents because I choose not to have children?  Can I claim my dog, then??  Bitter? You bet your A$$!  How about all the starry-eyed moms that tsk, tsk me and tell me I can't possibly believe I'm fulfilled because I don't "know the joy - it's like heaven on earth!" Whatever, FREAKS!! Your body, your choice - but quit whining about how you are persecuted whenever you blithely ignore your child who's having a major meltdown for 20 minutes and then get pissy because people start giving you dirty looks. America not child friendly??? It's quite the other way around. I don't make a big deal outta kids - even though people make a big deal outta it for me - but you all are irritating in your self-righteousness. D*mn.  

THANK YOU!!! Some people like those with out children are usually selfish and self absorbed. So if they hear noise and its not coming from them, in their minds, it must be stopped. With their looks of disgust and the sighs of frustration, well if you ask me... Doesn't that sound like a child...

YallAreNutso I agree with you.  I am now with child, but I remember when I wasn't even thinking about having kids and my boss assumed my time was not as precious as those who had kids.  I was expected to stay late, work 6 days a week, go on extended business trips and like it.  Maybe I didn't need time to pick up my kids, but damn, can I get time to have a social life?  

Hi everyone,

I am childless.  It is by choice.  I have raised children in my home.  Not by choice, but because of difficult circumstances.  I consider them mine.  I am sure there are rude people everywhere.  Trust me you get looks for anything even if you don't have a child, but I will say discipline and teaching of good manners does not start when the child begins to speak sentences and is running around.  Acceptable behavior in a public place needs to be taught again.  The "time-out" revolution is over.  I don't believe in it and never have.  I watched my sister do this with her son and I rolled my eyes.  Yes, I did.  It is time for old fashioned rules to be inforced and not with a stupid time out.  I am tired of worrying about the child that is running around the restaurant with a knife, or getting in my booth, or screaming at the top of his lungs, while the parent, parents, or adults sit there and say quietly "Oh Johnny, you know you should not be doing that."  I am sure that the descriptions given earlier are a result of people being rude and not polite, but you must realize that childless people and people out without their children are paying to be there also.  While I understand that without children the human world would not exist, it does not mean that anyone's child should have full control of a captive audience.  I watched a child throw a hissy fit in a "family restaurant" one day.  I then watched the father get up silently and take the child and proceed to walk out of the restaurant.  The man and the child did not return until they were both calm and able to sit and enjoy their meal.  The child was approximately 2-3 years old.  I watched the man outside with the child talking to him and then getting into the car with him and sitting in the car talking.  I never once saw him raise a hand or look like he was yelling.  I turned to my mother and told her I remember when she would just look at us and we would be silent.  She turned back to me and stated it started with me taking you outside and having a stern talking to you first.  My opinion is this any female can give birth, but not everyone can be a parent.  I have to agree with Joan B also.  The world does not give you a pass just because you have children.  You made the decision to have a child, now live up to it and raise the child into a healthy goodmannered adult.

Keep in mind that those little angels are just mirrors of yourself.  Think about it...

Honestly, I have no problem with kids crying and whining because I know it happens. I've been there, I have two little brothers i've dealt with and I have a baby cousin that is the exact same way. I am more blown away at the people that actually say things the the parents of the kids. I was in a pizza hut once (I know, not the fanciest of places) and there was a family there with 5 kids, all were about 5 or 6. Now I can see the occasional scream or whatever, but these kids were running around to other people in the place, screaming, crying, staring at me and I was amazed that the parents did absolutely nothing to stop the kids. I have no problem with the kids occasionally screaming, but when they are out of control and the parents are sitting there pretending that nothing is happening is insane. I expect kids on planes and restaurants to be exactly that "kids," but when the parents are not disciplining their kids something is wrong. But I totally agree most people need to just keep their mouths shut, because it is none of their business. Just say something to the management, because you are only going to piss off the parents and nothing will happen.

There is life after kids..Those of us who are empty nesters can see if from both ways.  We are now childless and enjoying it. I do remember how it was to go to the store and your child has a tamtrume in the floor, run through the store and hid under the racks. I remember how it feels to go to a resturant and my little angel would decide it was time to get notice, start screaming and throwing food.  As the parent it does not feel to good.  I had to leave  many places because of my kids. The key word here is leave, I always tried to take my kids into public early in the morning when the were well rested or after their afternoon naps.  Grumpy kids make for grumpy parents.  As a empty nester and also a grandmother I do not like to sit next to children in resteraunts. If I go to a family restuant I expect to see kids. If I go to a late dinner in a nice resturant no I don't want to listen to a tired baby. I don't like to see little hands trying to serve themselfs from the buffett.I see parents who continue eating ignoring the child who is sitting there screaming his heart out while mom and dad continue on. I love kids but a crying baby can make a sane person go crazy. And god forbide if you are not used to it, it can be really bad.  I think most parents have gotten to the point that they kind of tune it out. They don't understand how the childess cannot ignore it.  I think everyone would be alot better it we just kept a set of ear plugs in our purse and learn to ignore it. Afterall oneday those little ones do grow up and become obnoxious teenagers. so which is worse.    

u ppl with kids should take a trip to Germany, I really don't know what they do to their kids over there but they're the quietest little cute kids in the world (and believe me i've traveled a lot!), funny thing is that they're not zombie like, but actually happily disciplined, so i guess it's all about knowing how to raise them and really teach them that there are boundaries they gotta respect and stuff. =)

my baby sis has a little 2 yr old and she's absolutely mad and wild and just seems sooo uncontrollable, so i'd to learn to be patient with her and with all the other kids i've run into, so at last it's all about patience and learning how to make them understand they cannot do whatever they please.

I am the second child of six, 3 girls, 3 boys. We are all too young to leave home, I am 14. I plan on having kids and do not expect any special treatment. I am being raised in a loving and not truly strict household. Our parents correct us when we are wrong and reward us for hard work. They both had shit for childhood. Unlike most people, they learned how not to raise children and have shown us only happiness. Nothing is given unless it is Christmas or a birthday, I have worked for almost everything I have, though most would call me spoiled. My mother and I watch news together, and I work with my dad outside. I love children and adore my youngest brother Liam. He is three, and not always in best behavior, but he knows respect and when to be quiet. Responsibility is with parents and older siblings. I take that gladly, as well as my daily chores. When I was little, I not only listened to my parents, but observed those around me. Kids can figure out whether or not to act badly once they reach about three or four, so quit only blaming the parnts!!

Whoa, you self righteous hypocritical bastards.  Quit feeling sorry for yourselves.  Your children are only precious to you.  We were in a fancy restaraunt the other day and a family was there with two young girls, and they were so well behaved my spouse complimented the parents on how good their kids were.  These were one in a million.  If you can't teach your children, respect, and manners, and how to behave in public, then yes,  you should keep them at home.  Just because you chose to have children does not give you the right to ruin my evening because your precious child is misbehaving.  It's not all about you!  

Childless and thankful:

If you want to control all your surroundings, keep you own butt home.  I have three children and I will take them anywhere in public.  If you don't like it that is just too damn bad.  

I waited until I was 42 to have my son. I had 20 years of being "childfree" and I loved it. That said, I can't imagine my life without my son and he is the best thing that's ever happened to me. It doesn't have to be either/or, people.

As in all aspects of life, it pays to use common sense and realize that you can't always get what you want. Before I had my son I knew that going to a chain restaurant early in the day meant sitting near kids, so I either went after prime time hour for kids, or sat in the smoking section, or avoided chain dining (which is usually crap anyway). I sure as hell didn't sit around and whine about it as if life was dealing me such a bad hand, and wah, wah, wah.

I also waited tables while working on my graduate degree and I know there are some parents who let their kids dump sugar packets everywhere, leave tons of food under the tables, and smear food on the tables. IF YOU ARE THAT PARENT THEN TIP ACCORDINGLY.

On the other hand, I was in Barnes and Noble around 2:00pm the other day with my son when a girl walked in wearing a dress that was completely sheer, talking on her cell phone and using the foulest language in a very loud and annoying tone of voice. I'm no prude, I can cuss like a sailor, and feel people should express themselves, but again, there is a time and place for everything. My son thought there was something wrong because she had such an angry whiny tone and he started sucking his thumb. (something he only does when stressed) I wanted to pimp smack the girl.

So, childfree people, quit whining. Act like you have some common sense and suck it up. Somebody's child will be the one to wipe your ass and feed you food when you're too old and decrepit to do it yourself and have no children to help you. (I have seen this scenario MANY times since I work in healthcare)        

Childless and thankful:

No truly "fancy" restaurant allows children. Applebee's and Macaroni Grill don't qualify as "fancy".

And therein lies the problem. People without kids go out to eat at place that are MADE for family dining and complain when there are families there.  

If you must eat at Crapplebee's go after 7:30pm, (like most adults do anyway).  

Thankfully, I haven't had too many rude looks/comments regarding my son (14 months).  I agree with the idea that children should not be in movies late at night, nice restaurants, etc., that the parents need to remove a child in certain circumstances.  I had no idea how hard it was to keep a toddler under control, until I had one. I hope I wasn't rude to anyone before.  

The only thing I've had happen - a very rude look/comment in a Target!  My son was in the cart and not doing anything, and someone passing by was very rude.  Why?  Because we shared an aisle?  That I don't get ... but I find most people to be ok.  

Why are all of you on a parenting website if you are childfree by choice? I'm not saying kids aren't annoying...many of them are. But so are a lot of adults. And last time I checked, my wife didn't have paid-maternity leave or any of these benefits you're talking about. We both work and hustle like everyone else. For all the rude parents and non-parents out there, look into manners.

Parents, I'm a steadfast liberal and listen to conservative talk radio so I can get a perspective on the "other" side. While I mostly never agree with what they say, at least I know who I'm dealing with when I have an encounter with them. I do the same with parenting. Look at the other side, no matter how angry it may make you. At least youll have a perspective and ammunition when confronted by their glares. Try to and remind them as nicely as we can that their mothers made a choice to have them and that because of that choice that you are forced to deal with them as crappy pissed off ignorant bitter adults.

Maybe we "breeders" can have a crappy pissed off ignorant bitter adults with or without kids Free club and give them our best glares. That would be a fun contest!!! Just like grammar school all over again. Yippee.

Google ChildFree in "your town" to see where they gather.

You Know, I understand your question, Why do childfree people "the childfree people that hate, obviously" hate on us with childern. It is quite complex. We were all childern at one point, "captain obvious strikes again" I think you could break it down into two catagories. 1, Those that love childern, and 2, those that don't. I have a strong educated guess, those that don't love childern, probably don't love themselves. Good day.

Yikes, what a thread!  I have two kids and I've always taken them out to eat, shopping, and to the movies even as babies.  The places are considered public (including children) and kids have to learn sometime in life how to behave in public.  My kids are elementary age and they  ALWAYS know to sit still & behave in a movie.  I can't usually say that for the teens or adults that talk during the whole movie & kick our seats behind us.  If we go out to eat, as long as they get crayons & something to draw on until the food comes, they are pretty good.  If we go shopping, mama's using lots of coupons and its going to take a while, but if they misbehave they don't get rewarded later.  That said, my dd has never misbehaved in public, but my ds has adhd and gets hyper sometimes and the looks I get while calming him down, whew!!!  I do have some childfree relatives/friends and I don't think they act any different around my kids than the ones with kids.  

Wow!!!!  Talk about opening a can of worms.

If you want kids, have em.  If not, don't.  Jeez.  We all have met parents who seem to care less about their children's bad behavior.  My kids have thrown their fair share of fits and I've had to deal with them.  I always apoligize to those who are giving me dirty looks and get on with trying to calm whoever is losing it.  My children are not perfect.  They cry occasionally.  We have changed our lives and know where to eat and don't even attempt movies that aren't child oriented.  

To those of you who have perfect children--and any type of misbehavior means you are a bad parent....wake up.  Sure, it is extremely important to teach your child proper manners and respect, but taking a 18-36 month old child to a public place is a crapshoot. Kids get antsy and bored.  It isn't a sign of bad parenting.  Children are individuals.  Some of them love shopping and eating out, others are overwhelmed or bored.  I used to say the very same thing--"MY child will NEVER do (insert behavior here)"  My words have come back to bite me right in the butt.  

I can say that having kids is great--for me.  It isn't for everyone.  

That being said, I've met more than my fair share of obnoxious and rude adults--they should know better.  At least a child is young and inexperienced in life.  What's the adult's excuse???

Re:  Parking spaces.  What's the big deal???  So you have to walk another 25 feet.  Is it so hard for you to do so???  It might be for a pregnant woman.  Why not be nice???  I have a neighbor who fell off his roof and can't walk anymore.  Should I say to him "too bad for you stupid.  you should have stayed off your roof???"  I don't think so.  

Why can't we all just try to get along.

I'm childfree and don't have a problem with children acting appropriately in appropriate places--such as sitting and eating at a family restaurant as opposed to running around and trying to escape through the emergency exit and setting off the alarms.  Yes, I have witnessed this.

However, I have a problem which I'm wondering if it is unique or common.  One of our acquaintances has a 4-year-old who is a hellion.  Whenever we are at social events, such as weddings, graduations, etc., his mother will just leave him with other people, including myself, and say, "Could you watch him?"  She does this ALL THE TIME.  It's her responsibility to care for her child and make sure he behaves, not mine, but she seems to view these events as her chance to escape from the child.  Has anyone else experienced this problem?    

Are you people for real?  You should all be forced to drink belach and then deported.  To Canada, or Iran.

I guess people who think that they have a choice in deciding the social and demographic structure of our society and being totally unrealistic, irrational and stupid. I mean common you don't have a choice as to who can drive next to you, who your teller in the bank will be , who your neighbour will be...u know what I am saying.. I am a mom of a very sweet 18 month old boy ..who has his moments of sreaming and crying due to hunger, lack of sleep etc.. I never even react to people who give me stares or utter profanities..because seriously those people are idiots.. why even bother getting upset over people less intellectutal then you.. i just focus on my baby and getting that smile back on his face..and when it really gets to me I just stare back at those people and give them the ugly stares..and not once let them make me feel guilty of my role in this universe.. to me..to be a mom / parent is crrying foward God's work..

i dont have kids coz im not ready.  what i dont understand is why people act like they should be able to do the same things once they have kids...why would u take a baby to a department store?  why didnt you leave them with thier dad? when i have kids when its time o go shopping, the hair salon, nail solan, they ar satying with daddy!  why would u take them to a restaurant do they really know the diffrence? they are kids.  kids are kids keep them in their space.

Unfortunately it seems easier for people to judge what they haven't experienced. Furthermore, children are the most vulnerable people in our society and need to be treated with respect, patience and kindness. They learn more from what they see rather than what they're told to do. It's important that everyone remember that, childless or not, because we all need to be very careful about what emotions that all children, no matter whose, are exposed to.

The way I see it there's nothing wrong with being or wanting to be childless, but there is no excuse for our society's national dislike of children.

I don't like kids.  I don't like parents who think that I have to like kids.  I don't go to family restaurants when I don't want to hear/see kids because I know there will be kids there.  I don't want kids in adult places where they don't belong.  That's why I didn't go to the family place.  Your child doens't belong in a bar or pricy restaurant, or any other adult venue.  If you don't understand it take a reality check.  

Roxy this has nothing to do with children vbeing vulnerable.  I don't mind children who are behaved. There are very few out there.  That goes to parenting.  Probably the same people writing "my child belongs everywhere" on this blog.  Idiot parents raising entitled brats who carry on their idiot attitudes.  

And yes, I have moved to an area where there are not a lot of children on purpose.  I stay off your turf- stay off of mine!

This thread is amazing!  I am childless by choice and I have never regretted not having children.  Don't get me wrong, I love children and I actually work with children ages 0-3.  I just never had the desire to be a mother.  I do not lump all children into one category.  There are the well-behaved and there are the brats.  As evidenced by this thread, adults can easily be lumped into one of those two categories as well.  All I ask is that you parents not lump ALL childfree people into the same "bitchy" category.  What everybody on this thread needs to remember is that these are all just opinions.  How you choose to let it affect you is up to you.    

I want the 10 minutes back it took to read these comments.

Ahh, where to start...

I am a very young parent with two children, 8 and 10 respectively. My husband and I both strive to teach our children respect, kindness, and what is appropriate for them as kids. Because of those beliefs, we have made a conscious effort to keep all activities correct for them and their age range. We did not go to movies with two babies. The rare times we were able to get a babysitter were when we would enjoy a film. We did not set foot in a theater with our children until our kids were 5 and 7, and that was for a kid friendly Pixar film. Our kids have never seen the inside of a restaurant nicer than Johnny Carino's, because anything better than a Casual Dining is inappropriate and overkill for them.

All that to say, we set rules and follow them so as a result when we do take our kids out they are generally quiet and respectful. Neither of my children have ever cried or whined in a fit to get their way, to get a treat, or because they were tired. Not even as toddlers. It wasnt tolerated. They do not run around places that dont involve sandboxes, they walk next to or immediately behind me at all times. My son opens doors for ladies. Both my children are well versed in the art of "please" and "thank you". They arent perfect (oh LORD are they NOT perfect...), if they forget ~ I do my job and remind. If one of them cops an attitude, they get nothing as reward only the reminder that I am an adult and they should remember their place. I have zero tolerance for undisciplined kids and have no issue "shooting looks" or making comments to people who have such a blatant disregard for both their children and other people in public. I dont like watching unruly brats scream their way through Target, either. However,they shouldnt be locked away for our comfort. They should be taught whats correct.

Its called teaching. Its called discipline. If I can do it, why cant you?

So much of this thread comes off as self-righteous entitlement that it effectively moots all points from both sides. *noting that my post comes off pretty damned self-righteous also, but hey... so far my kids are nothing like what the complainers are describing so I mounted my lil' Soap box*

Parents: If you are the ones who teach and discipline and your children generally are well behaved in public, then bully for you! Im sure no reasonable person has an issue with you or your kids.

ChildFree divas: Not everyone needs offspring to feel complete. Though it is your right and choice not to have children, it doesnt mean those that do should have to hide thiers away for your benefit. Afterall, my kid could have been the one that held the door open for your girlfriend last week when YOU didnt! ;)

look having chi;dren is a choice not your duty why should the rest of the world bow down and cater to you. at work most of my co-workers who have kids are always whinning about how they need more money but when overtime opens up they don't want to take it. so me and the other people who don't have children get stuct with it while having to listen to the mommy divas whine about money!

Thank you TeenageMomPolice!!!  

I'm childless and love it.  But I also love to see a well behaved child when I go out in public.  I've been to a store where some kid is crying at the top of his/her lungs cause they can't have the toy and the parent just keeps rolling the cart like they're deaf.  I was having a nice lunch with a friend on my birthday and some bratty kid threw a noodle at my head.  Did the mother say anything?  NO!  But she did see it and acknowledged it, just not to me.  She should have been embarrassed!!  I know I would have!

However, I've also been to stores and resturants where I see children that are well behaved.  Its beyond cute when I see that.  I generally cannot stand children (I know I was once 1 myself, but I know for a fact that I was well behaved), but I can tolerate them when they aren't making my (and several others) shopping and dining experiences a nightmare.

This is just my opinion on the matter.  Take it or leave it.  You are entitled to your own!

Peace!

Marki. Sounds like your issue should be more with your boss who allows the double-standard rather than the parents who take advantage.

I know personally during my time in the work force I did my share of working extra days and overtime for people who called in sick the day after talking about the massive party they were going to... then came in the day after talking about their wretched hangover. Remember, it goes both ways. I dont deny that some people use their kids as an excuse for poor pity BS (and I can't stand that as much as you), but some singles use sick days to cover the fact that they stayed drunk or just didnt want to come in. IMO, that has more to do with the person and their morals rather than the fact they are parents.

It's as unfair for the group of you bitter childfree's that have come here complaining to lump all parents and children into one convenient category of crap as it is for the crappy parents to think its their brats right of way to be obnoxious.

It was my choice to have a kid, so it's my responsibility to take care of them and make sure they are not a disturbance to others. I wonder why all parents dont believe the same.  

Abortion and birth control- best decisions i ever made! :)

Just be considerate of those of us that Do NOT want to have children.  Its like smoking in a public place...just don't blow it in our face. I don't mind children in public, just be don't assume we all can block out the sound of your kids yelling, crying, or saying "mom, mom, mom...over and over". I'm 33, able to have children but I don't want to.  Sometimes I think you non-breeder-haters are just jealous because parenthood isn't all its cracked up to be.  Most of my friends with kids wish their life was different, they wish they could enjoy a nice dinner out and a movie.  I don't doubt your love for your children (and by the way...most will NOT be doctors lol don't fool yourself), but don't doubt our love for NOT having children.

I worked in daycares and worked as a teacher's aid for many years, and found that most problems come from people's intolerence to anything, not just someone else's children. Those people who make you upset because of their disrespect towards your kids, well you choose to allow their opinions to bother you. The same goes for those of us who are childless/childfree, to get upset with other people's children while out at dinner or whatever the situation...

Here is the bottom line: Use the "Golden Rule"  "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." If you want childless/childfree adults to be more understanding or caring to your situation, be more understanding to theirs. Some of us are without children by God's great sense of humor, but given the choice, I still wouldn't have any. Simply because I am selfish. At least I'm mature enough to admit that. God Bless all the mothers and fathers for putting up with such stupidity, and may God forgive those who are stupid.

I'm a 26 year old teacher. I've taught 4th grade and 1st grade. I do not have any children of my own. Children who are well-behaved are one thing, children who are not are another. Yes, some kids do silly things, but there are parents who do not discipline for even the more serious incidents. Parents who just laugh (or ignore) when their children swear, kick, bite, hit, or generally act disrespectful to others. As a teacher, I love children, but I do not love the fact that parents think they have the most wonderful child in the world when their child is very badly behaved. Who wants to be around a child who acts like that?

I have 2 children 3 and 1 yr. I have had the looks and comments and I put it right back on the child free and bitchy ones. I would like to muzzle them up and put them back in kindergarten so they can learn some manners and respect and stay out of FAMILY friendly places.

I don't know why I don't like kids much. I'm the youngest of three and my cousins closest in age lived far away, so I was never around kids very much, and when I was, I didn't know what to do with them. On the other hand, my older brothers are great with kids. Maybe that has something to do with it...

There are a few kids that I like. Those tend to be the ones you can actually have conversations with. Little people who know the world really does not revolve around them.

The more I drive around, the more I observe the world around me, the more I see how ignorant people are of others around them, and it sucks to know that those ignorant people are going to raise even more ignorant children. I don't swear or say mean, negative things around the little kids I know, so it doesn't rub off on them, so you'd think maybe a parent would return the favor and shush their kid if they're being inappropriately obnoxious. It's not just the "I hate kids" thing... It's become an I hate everyone thing, because everyone is so damned self-absorbed!

I prefer the company of four legged furry critters...

Hey, one thing I don't get, because I don't have any kids, is this: if it's so horrible, why do people have more than one? You hear so much about the misery and sleep deprivation, etc. What makes you want to do it over and over? My best friend has four kids and she's great with them. I can't imagine being able to do that! It's cool for her, but for me... *shudder*

I'll try not to say "I hate kids" anymore. I just dread them. I'm sorry. But I won't make scenes about it in public, and I never purposely go around hurting peoples' feelings.

My BF (he loves kids) said he doesn't get why I'm so uncomfortable around them, because I'm like a big kid myself. I love love love Harry Potter, SpongeBob, merry-go-rounds, ice cream cones, candy, and cute little dolls. Maybe I'm just jealous of them! lol

Oh, and someone earlier commented that they don't know why people who don't have kids are coming onto a parenting website and complaining. I actually got here via a link on Yahoo Shine and had no idea it was a parenting site. Just an FYI... We're not all going around looking for someone to hate on!

I, too, am child-free by choice. I do, however, have a dog. She is a very sweet dog and I love her to death, but she does have a few behavioral issues. I would love to take her out in public but seldom do because she isn't very good at coming back when called, she insists on sniffing crotches, and in general, tends to run around and act like a spoiled brat.

Let's make a deal... I'll keep my dog at home if you keep your kids at home, okay? You won't have to step in my dog's poop and I won't have to smell your kid's poopy diaper while I'm trying to enjoy my dinner. I won't let my dog bark or howl throughout the movie if you promise not to let your child cry, scream or chatter during this time.

I recognize that not everyone finds my dog to be as adorable as I do. Why can't you recognize that not everyone feels the same about your kid?

Well-behaved children are a joy to be around and I make sure that I always compliment their parents. Unfortunately, there seem to be increasingly few opportunities to do so.

I would love to have kids someday, unfoutunatly, I can't...

but if I ever do I will certainly relize that if my child is being loud and obnoxious in a public place, that the other people there shouldn't have to deal with it! And I am sorry but I'm sick of some (not all but yes some) parents wanting to be treated special because they are parents (example "sorry I'm late for work the kids blah blah blah) we all have responsabilities (I take care of my fiance who just had open heart surgery, at 29 years old and his mother who is about to go in for hers) and I don't ask for special considerations...

So we're comparing kids to dogs now? Are you sniffing glue?

Wow. Some people really reach to make a point while simultaneously disnissing anything they dont agree with.

Darwin isnt working fast enough in this thread.

The people with kids think having kids is the greatest thing a person can do with their life.  If you have a child do it with intent and raise that child to be the best person they can be...don't just go through the motions of being a parent.  Don't get lazy and blame others for your children's bad behavior.  There are good kids out there that will eventually contribute to society. I'm not saying everyone should stop breeding, I feel like you should have to qualify to be a parent.  Too many ignorant people out there are raising ignorant children.  Back to the original comment about children's behavior in public.  I think its hilarious and can't help but laugh when a child is throwing a tantrum in public... Its a great reminder of how much I love my life!

I have no children by choice.I would find it irresponsible to bring another life in to this already over crowded world.

To have a child is a personal decision.

At the young age of 25, people are harassing me constantly:

"When are you going to get married"

"When are you going to have children?"

As if it is my social obligation to tie the knot and automatically pop out a kid or two. Does anybody understand that it not my obligation to do this!!!

The Science:

Procreation is the act of having sex simply in order to keep the species alive. (AKA "Keep the numbers up).

But if you actually look at the number of human beings and resources per family worldwide, there is a severe shortage of resources.

And since humans keep on procreating irresponsibly worldwide, our resources will keep on shrinking, eventually snuffing out our own species.

This is Darwinian science.

This is Nature.

The species needs to be thinned out before any productive procreation can take place. The type where new adaptions to the environment can take place, as well as innovations as to how the environment can be used in a way that is productive and renewable.

Thats just my thoughts on the whole, why I don't have children thing. I guess its for the good of the species. We all die after all.

CHILDLESS & GLAD said:  TEACH YOUR KIDS HOW TO BEHAVE IN PUBLIC FOR OUR SAKE AS WELL AS THEIRS. yOU DON'T WANT THEM GROWING UP TO BE COMPLETE ASSHOLES WHO THINK THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WHENEVER THEY WANT, DO YOU?

Apparently your mom didn't teach you how to behave!!!!

MaekR,

cuss around my kids at dinner and I will have your ass thrown out and/or cited.......I would rather liten to a child cry than an ADULT make an ass out of himself cussing..

PUBLIC means open to anyone...if you dont like kids crying then YOU STAY HOME AND EAT DINNER THERE, YOU NEVER LEAVE YOUR HOUSE SO THAT WAY YOU NEVER HAVE TO SEE AND OR HEAR CHILDREN.

i love that idea so much better.

Now for parents with out of control children... DICIPLINE them, if they are running all over the store leave your cart, take their little ass outside or even infront of everyone and spank them. My kids are well behaved but from time to time they have been known to act up...I will leave my cart ( on my way out I explain to the nearest employee) and take them out and diciplin them....now childless persons don't look at me like I am some crazy child abuser when I am dicipling MY child in public. You dont get it both ways, if I need to diciplin my child in public to YOUR peaceful public place then let me.

I understand both aspects

I get that infants cry and there's not a whole lot the parents or anybody else can do. What I do resent is when a child is disturbing others in a public place and the parents don't even try to keep the kid quiet. Just flew a 4 hour flight and the 5 year old behind my row yelled the whole flight. The parents clearly knew the kid was disturbing others and did nothing to stop him. Would it have been so hard to ask the kid to talk quietly? He was basically giving a running commentary of the whole flight. Like most 5 year olds the very few times the mommy made the feeble effort to actually "shhhh" the kid he completly ignored them. When he ran away from his parents and they yelled for him to stop again he completly ignored them. You want to have kids great good for you but please for everybody's sake especially the kid have at least a little control over him.

I do not have the right to keep people awake for 4 hours on a plane listening to babble and parents neither do your kids.

Nakia  said: "Apparently your mom didn't teach you how to behave!!!!"  

Yet you used the same curse word as the person you just called out.  Nice.  

Things won't change, kids will be in public, people will keep breeding because that is what they are taught to do. Both sides just need to be considerate.  There are good parents,there are bad parents.  There are people without children that like kids and there are those that find them irritating.  Just live your life the best way you can and offend as few people you can in the process.

Banning unsupervised teenagers from a mall has nothing to do with "hating children."  I am a soon-to-be parent and love kids, but agree about the mall issue.  I'm surprised people are taking such an affront to this.  It's private property.  What's the big deal?  I was a teenager who hung out at the mall and I can see why vendors wouldn't want me there.  I never spent any money and annoyed the customers who might have.  

sounds more like "with child and bitchy"

I think that you baby makers are getting the wrong idea. I am one of those people who give dirty looks and ban your kids from my house. Why? Because you think your kids are "too cute". Sure they are cute. But it isn't cute when they break, distroy or disrespect my stuff and all you have to say is sorry. I want you to say I will pay for it reguardless of the price. Your kid broke it or ruined it because you thought they were so cute and let them run free as apposed to keeping a "close eye" on them. I want you to feel that I want to drop kick you when you kid ruins my stuff like I would do any other adult that did. It isn't ok because your kid did it. You all feel hurt when you start to get shunned from events. Its because your kid breaking and ruining things is equal to the drunk jerk who later barfs on my couch, new carpet, or whatever. Its a mood killer as well as a budget killer. Ask around its why so many people loose friends after having kids. They think the rules change about you break it you bought it.

I had 2 incidents lately with unruly kids.  At Red Lobster, on date night with my husband, the bly next to us ran all over the restaurant and even climbed UP and sat on the windowsill!  Mom kept calling him back to sit by her and yet she let him sit on the aisle side of the booth!  Yesterday I was at a swim meet and trying to use the restroom.  Children were blocking the entrance and squirting some sort of liquid candy at each other.  They wouldn't get out of the way and were upset when I loudly said "excuse me".  I HAVE a child- 17-years-old- and I STILL dislike poorly-behaved children.  Do not take children somewhere where they are not capable of adhering to the behavior code- and yes, there is one for every place, even if it is unspoken.  Yes, my child is well-behaved and others have commented on that.  When she is not around me, I ask other adults how she was.  I go to teacher conferences and ask her teachers about her behavior.  It is MY job to raise a productive human being and this is one job I take seriously!

Most people I know just stick their kids in daycare all day because they don't like to be around their own kids(though they word it differently). Parents say they need the money and they have to work. There are those that need to work and those that choose to work.  They don't need the big house, the fancy cars, or the material things, but they choose to

let some 20 year old raise their kids.  

Of course you think your kids are great, you only see them 4 hours a day!!!!  

If you can't raise them yourself you shouldn't have them.  

If you choose material items over actually raising your own kids you should have used birth control like me.

I understand working once a child goes to school, but putting an infant or toddler in daycare all day so someone else can teach them to walk and talk is not parenting.  

No wonder you think your kids are Gods gift to the world...you only see them several hours a week.

Sheesh, I am raising 5 kids, 4 of my own plus a foster.  Three teens, a tween and a 7 year old.  I would take my kids anywhere, I coach 2 soccer teams and have a revolving door of friends and friends of friends.  Kids are a product of their upbringing.  My kids are respectful, mannered and engaging.  Don't lump them!

Hmm..I am childfree and I don't think that I should have to live in special child free areas, nor do I feel i should have to burdened by parents who don't teach their children how to behave in public and enforce it. Just because you have a child doesn't mean you can go off into public and allow them to annoy people. Most kids are great,, then there are the ones who have been raised like a pack of wild wolves...they need to reside at the zoo in a cage, I need not more to a retirement community.

I do not have any children but I don't mind them being around. What I DO mind is how often those with children have a false sense of appropriateness. I'm sorry but YES, I am annoyed when I go to a BAR and someone has brought their whiny kid. YES, I am annoyed when someone brings their whiny kid to an ADULT dominant party. YES, I am annoyed when someone brings their whiny kid to a MIDNIGHT showing movie. If some parents would learn that though you may want to take your kids everywhere, children are not meant to BE everywhere then maybe the "childless" wouldn't shoot you dirty looks.Having little kids around can completely change the environment of wherever you are at. If I want to go to a bar and hang with my friends and drink and have fun...seeing a three year old sitting close by is going to make me tone down my speech topics and anything else because I have respect for children. Also, a lot of parents let their kids run around and act crazy. That is annoying. Soo, it may not be that the "childless" don't like kids...it's that the childless don't understand why parents just don't have a sense of appropriateness with their kids.

exactly, loulou.

Just like all childfree's should not be thrown under one umbrella as child-hating, self-centered, arrogant aholes (as several people in this thread have shown themselves to be...), all parents should not be viewed as people who allow their children to run rimshod in public and be rude, obnoxious, or a combination thereof.

There is a distinction between the groups, and my main issue with this thread so far is not that people who dont have children (and even us that DO have children) have low to no tolerance for bad behaving kids and their crappy parents, it's the fact that there are good parents with good kids who don't let them interfere with other individuals lives/outings/plane rides get no acknowledgement whatsoever.

Why don't some of us like children?

Because they're often poorly tended and their ugly, unhealthy and spoiled behavior should be banned from public just like smokers blowing their cancer clouds around them.  If your kids are well behaved, *we're not talking about you*. We don't notice you 90% and we are glad of it.  Or didn't. Now well behaved and sweet children are so rare I find myself remarking on it and smiling at both parents and children - probably a mistake since everyone seems to hate people who don't want or like children around them.  But i like every rare and vanishing breed and sweet, unspoiled children seem to be one.

The really sad thing is that if you are one of the people with well behaved children, you already know enough to control your kids and we don't need to try to circumvent being put anywhere near you and your kids.  If you're not, no kind of trying to work around you will meet with your approval because like the people who won't take their screaming baby out of a theater, you just won't understand why you should even try.  We should all love your screaming part parrot part monkey child.

To me, ill-behaved children are like cigarettes; I don't allow them in my home, why should I have to put up with them elsewhere?  That being said, it really boils down to the parent.  Oh, you have your story here about places being non-screaming-child friendly, but did it ever occur to you where you are bringing your child?

Was it Princess Anne or Princess Margaret that said that parents shouldn't let their children run like wild mules everywhere, and wonder why they get poor marks for citizenship at school?

It depends on the parents' intelligence in what is a child-appropriate location, and whether the parents can curb said child.  If they scream, either take them out in the parking lot until they calm down, or give them the Childrens' Chewable Valium that you have been pilfering from them....BTW when your precious little snowflake is addicted to all the drugs they can get his/her precious little hands on at 14...well, obviously, I don't know anything, because only selfish, irresponsible and immature people don't have children, right?  

Kids can be SO annoying. When I am out in a nice restaurant, shopping, a movie anywhere I want to have a nice time, it totally ruins my peace & enjoyment to have some kid yelling or crying for no reason and the parents usually do NOTHING to stop it. I was in a movie theater just the other night, and there was a young kid TALKING through 3/4 of the movie and the stupid parents just SAT THERE!!! Yes, they may have been "trying" to keep it quiet, but Hello! it's a movie and people paid good money to hear the MOVIE not your dumb kid BABBLING gibberish!!!! It's people WITH kids that are rude, people without kids are just trying to ENJOY themselves without having to listen to incessant babbling, crying, yelling, whatever. If your kid acts up, TAKE IT OUT OF THE PLACE, don't just SIT THERE like a moron!!!!!!!! And guess what? I DON'T hate kids, I like them, I just HATE when they ruin something I'm trying to ENJOY!!

Are you sure that the people you are complaining about are childfree?

My CF husband and I go to Disneyworld frequently. We don't spend a lot of time around kids, but something we fully understand and expect is that at Disney the kids are going to be over-excited and exhausted, and understandably have a few tantrums. The behavior doesn't bother us at all, because we expect it. In fact, being surrounded by kids at Disney is great because their excitement is contagious.

You might be surprised that the scowling, intolerant person is actually a parent, while the smiling, indulgent one is CF.

I am CF. And glad that I am.

If your child is acting out and unhappy at disneyland, I shutup and color. I have no right to complain, because I am at a child-orientated venue.

On that same note, be fair, when your little angel starts screaming at a romantic candlelit dinner, don't be upset when people complain.

If parents want their children to respected at child-orientated venues, then CF should be able to enjoy adult-orientated venues.

If you can't find a babysitter to watch your kid, then stay home. There is no point in ruining the night for everyone.

bec_b said that if you have to put your child in daycare, you shouldn't have had the child. Um...How do you recommend that I earn money to clothe, feed and provide shelter for my baby?  

I am not saying that having a child is a burden in any way, but I do think that unless you have a child, you have NO right to have any sort of opinion about someone that does- and especially their children. It's kinda like that saying that unless you vote, you can't complain about the president.  I don't care that you have had to be in the presence of a child with behaviour issues.  You were a kid once too and I bet even if you think you were well-behaved, you weren't perfect 100% of the time.  

If you don't want to be around children, don't go out in public.

Yes, those of us who are childfree DO know what we are missing.  That's why we are childfree!!!!  If we appear to be bitchy while we are listening to little Snotleigh's tantrum, it's because you self-absorbed, entitled breeders make us that way.  You are not special.  Breeding is something every species on the planet does daily.  Get over yourself, and keep Bratney at home where she belongs, until he/she is old enough to sit down and shut up!!!

Samantha Dear....bec_b is right.  If you can't afford to STAY HOME and raise your own kid, you should keep your legs closed.  If your husband (assuming you even have one) can't support you and your offspring, you should be childfree like the rest of us lucky folks.

As far as being a kid once, yes I was.  My parents stayed home with me, and when they went out very rarely, they got a babysitter...familiar with that word at all?  Paying ADULTS have a right to peace when they go out in public.  

Breeding should be allowed only through licensing, and from what I've read on here, most of you would not have passed the required test.  Stay home with the mess you made for yourself!!!!

My mom always tells me that God sent me to keep the human species going...but...I don't want to HAVE kids. I want to adopt already born children and give them a better life instead of bringing in more children to overpopulate. I'm still a child myself, but I just tend to think more so than others.

Good thinking Lana. You sound very intelligent. Don't ever let anyone talk you into anything you know isn't right for you.

I have no problem with children, per se. I have a problem with poorly behaved children and the parents who endulge them. Since children are a reflect of their parents, maybe my real problem is with the parents, hmm.

I have a son who is 6 yrs who I can tell you he is a handful. I do the timeout, The sit down lets talk and let me explain to you why your in trouble, the say yes maam, please and excuse me. Sit at the table till your done eating and you know what kids are going to be kids and I say that because my son has acted out in public. No one is perfect so I dont always blame the parent nor am I blaming the child. I just ask, dont be quick to judge us parents who are trying to do the best and it doesnt always show what we instill in our kids. All children go through a phase, so do us adults. Ones who have children, who cant bear or who just cant stand children. We all act out, if its how come my bill is this much or this meat isnt cooked all the way we act out!! =)I have been told, just let him be because I am constantly on my son on how to act, Im telling you he is one hyper kid. So what is it people, i let him be a kid or do I keep doing what Im doing? No one who is not dealing with what you are at home or in public is satisfied.

Love they way my previous comment has not been published. Even after 10 days. So, its clear that the author is moderating all comments and only letting through what she wants. Nice.