Strollerderby

Good point about the book versus a private relationship with his daughter, but I really don't think that he needs to do anything for the public - his performance on "30 Rock" is very well received, and if he'd just shut up about his problems, we'd all forget. I almost think that he really does feel he has a lot to teach us because he continues to talk about what he went through.

I pay little-to-no attention to celebrities, but that vile VM message to his daughter is permanently scarred into my brain.  That was one of the ugliest, most hateful things I've ever heard, and the idea of leaving that for a little girl makes me sick.  Nothing that he has to say on the subject of fatherhood would have any validity to me.

I'm with Knitty. If he felt that his ex was alienating him from his daughter, then why didn't he unleash on his ex? But no, he unleashed on an 11-year-old child. Hearing that message made me think that *he's* the one to blame for any alienation from his daughter, not Kim.

Hopefully with Alec Baldwin's notoriety and clout he can expose the fact that there are many parents who are fighting for their constitutional right to be a parent to their children.  Family court judges and lawyers are running a racket to ensure their pockets are well-padded while at the same time systematically destroying families.

Parental Alienation is an epidemic which does exist.  The damaging effects PA is causing to our nation's children is disgusting and appalling.  We will no longer be silent!  So Alec, be our national spokesperson, tell the world how Parental Alienation is driving some of us to commit murder and suicide.  We will stand up to our government and protect our parental and constitutional rights.  We are not going away.  UNITED WE STAND AS PARENTS FIGHTING FOR OUR CHILDREN!

Parental alienation is driving some of you to commit murder and suicide??

I suggest you seek professional help immediately.  

I'm haunted by that voicemail, as well. I know that as parents we sometimes lose it and go off like that, but having grown up with two parents who frequently cursed me out (as well as each other), I just think it's over the line. Words stick with us. I remember every hateful word my mother ever said to me. I don't doubt that parental alienation is a serious problem, but it's not cool to talk to your kids like they are garbage. Take the high road and walk away or keep your mouth shut.

Before all of you self righteous people make your judgmental comments; take a walk in the shoes of ANY parent who is alienated from his/her children by the custodial parent. We have been in a battle for ten LONG years over this very subject matter.  Those who have gotten away with the sick game of Parental Alienation...your days are numbered. Children grow up and speak for themselves. They are much smarter than you could possibly imagine.  In our situation, the children are fully aware of the mother and her games. Now they are writing about how this NASTY situation has robbed them of their rights as children. Of course I am sure you all would never be driven to say regretful things to anyone including your children. Enjoy tucking them in tonight. My husband won't have that opportunity.  

I read the NYer article, and Alec Baldwin came off as a very unhappy guy. His recent success on 30 Rock, his SNL glory, none of it means anything because he has been so steamrolled by what has happened with his family. Yeah, he made a huge mistake with that voicemail, but who leaked it to the public? He's more than paid his penance.

The best we can hope is that someday, his daughter will understand the complexity of the position he was in and be able to forgive him. He owes HER--not the public--a lot to make up for it, and I think his heart is in it.

Give the guy a break. No one's perfect.

There can nothing but positive impact with a discussion of PAS in public. Too bad the media will continue to wait for discussions of this kind unless or until a celebrity speaks about it.

You should beware of such groups like Justice for Children, Stop Family Violence, Courageous Kids, The Leadership Council, Garland Waller, Mary Kay Foundation and others are busy about intruding themselves into courtrooms with thier basis as repudiation of PAS. SOme such as Justice for Children have been destryoing children and their fathers for 22 years already. Just ask my daughter.

No one is disputing that PAS is serious. That doesn't excuse bad behavior, though. If a parent kills his/her child, are we supposed to understand and feel sympathy because he/she had been alientated?

Lisa, I am assuming your husband doesn't speak to his children the way Baldwin spoke to his daughter in that message. I don't think anyone here is being self-righteous at all. They are reacting to that awful message. No one should talk to a child that way. There just isn't an excuse.

Self-righteous? Because we object to a parent showering an eleven-year-old with abuse?  Are you kidding me?  Any parent who speak to a child like that damn well deserves to be "alienated."  Also?  A positive relationship with one's child isn't a "right"; it's a privilege, and if you blow it by losing your cool because you're unhappy with a court's decision, you reap what you sow and I have no sympathy whatsoever.

Alec is just like my ex-husband.  He is responsible for his own alienation of his children.  While he cries that I am responsible for the alienation of his children, he never once looked at the fact that he was his own worse enemy when it came to this.  Even if I wanted to do this, I never had to stoop to it, as he did it himself.  Let Alec keep up this type of behaviour and not look at what he is doing. His real interest is continueing to abuse his ex-wife with the only means he has left to do it with, his daughter.

Oh, cry me a river.  He needs to stop using his daughter as now the only means he has available to continue to abuse his ex-wife.

Listening to someone rant about corrupt courts and being driven to murder/suicide and their "rights" and "your days are numbered muhahaha" doesn't exactly fill me with certainty that the judge made the wrong decision.  

I don't know. I saw his latest Diane Sawyer interview, the man has some serious aggression issues. He seethes underneath...I wouldn't call him a very stable person in general.

Just curious, those who say they have experienced PAS  - what does that mean? I am a custodial parent of a young baby and I definitely don't want to alienate my baby's father. I am trying to set up a reasonable schedule where he sees him 3 times a week. Am I alienating him? Am I being cruel and selfish? I don't think so, but probably the father would say so. He wants visits every day. There is always two sides to the story.

Parental alienation is a problem that most people don't know about. It is child abuse and needs to be stopped!

I'm glad Mr. Baldwin plans on speaking out more about it.  The world needs to be informed.  Parental alienation has driven many divorced fathers to murder/suicide, it's driven many divorced fathers to take out the whole family (children included), and of course you (should)know that parental alienation is the cause of a rise in ex-husbands-killing-ex-wives. Yes, if Alec is thinking about suicide, he should get help, (divorced fathers are more likely to commit suicide), but that whole family needs to be in therapy because children without fathers are more likely to commit suicide, and more than likely their daughter Ireland will walk away from this situation more hurt than what either parent will ever be.

I don't care how "alienated" dad is over his custody/child support situation.  There is NEVER any valid excuse for violence.

You really aren't helping your case any with these threats of violence in every post, either.  Whatever sympathy I might have had evaporated the minute I read about men "being driven" to kill.  They aren't being driven to anything.  They are making their own selfish choice to do the most reprehensible, evil thing a person can do to another.

"Parental alienation" does not drive men to murder/suicide or to the slayings of their wives and children.  Men have always murdered women for the flimsiest of reasons (usually rooted in “I’ll show her who’s running this show”) and then gives us excuses why she deserved it/was asking for it/etc.  It's just another excuse in the long line of excuses offered up in a violent society that seethes with violence against women and children.  Miss Kat has the right of it; there's always two sides to these stories.  For every whiny "alienated" father threatening violence, there's a woman who will tell you a story of an abusive spouse who drove her to the edge.  You don't really think that ordinary, peaceful men just suddenly snap and kill their ex-wives over "alienation," do you?  The murder of a spouse or an ex-spouse is almost ALWAYS the last step in a long, long history of abuse.  

I agree with Knitty! In Baltimore an "alientated" father threw his two year old son over a bridge. I don't care what his wife was doing. That's on him. He has to live with that.

Talking to the wrong girl here folks. The father of my child was the most violent man I have ever witnessed. He abused me physically and emotionally abused me for 6 LONG years. I tried to get away and did not succeed many times. Once I got the chance, I ran. He found me and my INFANT daughter took her and fled. She was 6 months old at the time. I did get her back after a 11 day search and rescue. He later stalked me, shot at me several times, the list goes on and on. So, I know violence. Now. There are times when children are manipulated by the custodial parent and they too learn the same behaviors as the alienator. That is no excuse for speaking to the child in a violent or threatening manner. However; until you are in his/her shoes you have no idea what you are capable of or DRIVEN to. That is all I was trying to explain. Please educate yourselves about Parental Alienation. By the way. I was not talking about the parent's rights. I was talking about CHILDREN'S RIGHTS. There is an organization called The Children's Rights Council. Check it out.

Oh my God, Juliet, are you KIDDING me?! Talk about blaming the victim(s). And Lisa, spare me the talk about educating myself - Knitty is right on when she writes that when men are "driven" to kill it's usually the last part of a vicious pattern of abuse. I get very suspicious when I read of men (and their new wives/girlfriends) bitterly complaining about the injustices of the court system. As Knitty alluded to, it makes me think that the judge saw what was really there.

Passing judgment on reformed celebrities is difficult undertaking, kind of like death row inmates finding religion while they wait to be executed. We will only be able to speculate at the truth and intentions with no sure way to find out. That's not to say I condone Mr. Baldwin's infamous voice mail. Actions obviously have consequences, one of which being that no matter what Mr. Baldwin says on the topic of parenting, his message will always be tainted by that one moment.

That said, Parental Alienation is a serious subject, and regardless of personal feelings concerning Mr. Baldwin, the fact his book addresses this issue and brings it to a public forum deserves some merit.

Unless you've experienced the circumstances related to Parental Alienation, it's difficult understand what it feels like to have your own children turned against you because of the selfishness of an ex-spouse. Anger, frustration and even desperation are all part of the equation. Not to mention a sense of injustice at the legal system because parental alienation is difficult to prove without the involvement of experts. Without even realizing it, the alienated parent can be drawn in and begin a alienating campaign of their own.

As a father of three boys whose mother has no intention of allowing me to be an involved father, I am well aware of the  destructive patterns of Parental Alienation. And although I never inflicted any abusive behavior towards my children in my frustration, I did fall prey to becoming an alienating parent as a means of retaliating against my ex-wife. Just because I don't leave nasty messages, does not make me any less guilty of harming my boys. I was hurting them psychologically in ways they might never realize until later.

It would be easy to point the finger at my ex-wife for doing the same thing, but I can only take ownership for my actions. That is the first point you must understand as I  educated myself fully about the matter. Although, it hasn't dissolved my frustration, recognizing the symptoms and patterns involved has given me a positive avenue in dealing with the situation.

Kuddos to Ms. Brigham for her honest comments and her recommendations which I fully agree with. Education is the key.

Will Mr. Baldwin win Father of the Year anytime soon? Probably not. But if his words cause others to become more aware of this issue, and thus better parents, then Mr. Baldwin's motivations become irrelevant.  

Ashland Avenue: the judge did not make the decision; my husband made the choice to not fight for sole resident custody because he and thousands like him; never expected the mother to take this CHOSEN path. This man is a kind gentle human being who has fought for many years to have one day with his two children without harassing phone calls, riding by his residence then our residence; harassing my daughter, etc. I find it interesting how you just assume I am a"new girl friend/wife who is bitter."  This writer has lived on both sides of the equation. Did you read what I wrote before going off?  I have never stated that I agreed with Mr. Baldwin. Just informing those looking at this as black or white...where the gray matters!  

Knitty, You need to wake up and smell the roses...until you have been a "targeted parent" of parental alienation and have walked in those shoes, you have no idea what a person can be driven to. And yes, ordinary people do snap!  Everyone has a breaking point.  The question is, will they ever get to that point?  Most of us don't but some do.  There doesn't have to be one single ounce of previous abuse.  It happens!

I just want to clarify something. My writing in a previous comment about "her days are numbered" was not a threat. My husbands kids have been asked to write about their experience in a divorce/mixed family.  Within those pages the alienating parent will be exposed.  Some of us actually want to help... not attack. However; when accusations fly...I have learned to stand up for the truth and not be forced to back down.

Oh Roberta, there's nothing wrong with my sense of smell.  I can, for example, discern scent of roses from that of utter bullshit.

A person can't be driven to do anything that wasn't in their character to being with. If you decide to "snap," then you'll be spending the rest of your life in prison, and good luck on finding a jury to buy "daddy was alienated" as a valid excuse.

There is NO excuse for violence.  

Knitty you are easy to read. You have your mind made up and don't bother me with the facts. You obviously have great self control and have never sat across a restaurant table being continuously insulted by your alienated children who you raised.  You even have uttered an epithet in your description to Riobeta. Now that is most excellent self control. If you think you are losing control of a situation does that cause you to become "miffed."

Read Dr. Richard Warshaks "Divorce Poison" and many other recent professional assessments of Parental Alienation. You remind me of all those religious zealots who didn't believe the world was round way back in the day and in their zeal pilloried those who would dare try to break the silence to reveal the truth. PA is real, it exists, it is abuse and it is torture. Mr. Baldwin is taking this abusive use of children and target partners out of the closet for those, such as yourself, who need to know about it but more importantly law makers and targeted parents caught up in a misandric and dysfunctional family law legal system.

You should feel lucky that your own flesh and blood hasn't turned on you because then you would know what it is like to walk in Mr. Baldwin's shoes - and mine. What kind of parent releases the message left by Mr. Baldwin and exposes their child to people like you and literally billions of others worldwide. Where is your angst toward this kind of person. You haven't been able to recognize that part of the issue because you are so caught up in vilifying a man.  Is that the key - he's a man - and intrinsically violent? Because you refuse to see the tremendous emotional toll this takes on the child and target parent you unwittingly become an enabler to those abusers who think of children as nothing more than pawns in their war against the target spouse be they male or female.

A BIG thank you to Mr. Baldwin for having the courage to overcome opposition and bring this behavioral form of child abuse to the mainstream.  His heart-wrenching experiences relating to the inalienable right to be a father to his own child is felt worldwide.  

My sincere appreciation to Alec Baldwin for doing 'whatever it takes' to be a good example to his daughter, Ireland.  As each one of us is imperfect and all come from dysfunctional families, the proper way to handle any situation is always with love and persistence.  Children love unconditionally and parents are obligated to teach honor and respect.  My advice to anyone dealing with high-conflict custody's is to remain firm in your character and remember WHO it is you really answer to.  

For those who point fingers at Mr. Baldwin in an effort to discredit his love for his daughter -- shame on you!

I have read all of the comments and they are very similar to how it is when alienation begins. Everything is about mud slinging, then placing blame, taking things out of context, calling names and then BAM your alienated and one side is turned against you and one side understands. No it isn't fair or right for that child to have been talked to the way she was by her dad, no matter what. No excuses. It also isn't fair or right that her mom sent the messages out to the world either, for her own gain. They both showed no thought for how this child could have felt or continues to feel. It's not just about the parent's rights it's about the children not having the right, benefit or even a Privelage to have both parent's without the fighting, anger, hate, sabotage and being completely destroyed by the someone they love.  

I am alienated and as angry, sad, disgusted and heartbroken I have been through this, I have never talked to my kids that way. Does that make me better? No just more thoughtful of how damaged my children already are. Why add to it? I am sure that Kim and Alec are doing a fine job together in destroying this childs life, they are both to blame. I am sure their marriage was rittled with major problems prior to this coming from both sides, this just magnifies it. Murder or Suicide is the worst form of alienation there is. I don't think PAS drives people to do it. I think an in- ability to process ones hate, anger, sadness and not knowing how to problem solve does. PAS does cause alot of emotional damage for all involved, but if we love our children and are willing to see this as damaging why not all of the above? America needs to wake up and see what is happening to our children through all of this.

NotWithoutHope, What is the culprit causing the emotions of hate, anger, and sadness you speak of?  Think about it, if it's PAS causing those emotions, then PAS is the driving force.  

But you hit the nail on the head when you emphasize the bigger picture here, our children are enduring serious emotional damage that will take them years to overcome, if they ever do.  Why aren't the courts protecting our children?  Why can't the courts see that children have the right to have a relationship with both their parents?  

Our children are being used as weapons to inflict pain upon their own parent, at the assistance of our family courts and lawyers. The guilt they are sure to feel one day when they realize what they have done.  It is an unfair sentence to render on these innocent victims caught in a war between the people they love.  And what about the time and memories lost forever?  Who pays the price for that loss?

After having read several comments, and not all....I will say this. NO ONE KNOWS what Alec Balwin is speaking of unless you have been through it yourself. I have been through it with my significant other and it IS VERY REAL. Alec spells out the horrors of the system with the utmost of clarity. I would advise those of you that are interjecting your opinions on the "grey area" of this subject, to very careful of what you say before you say it. Unless you have lived it DAILY as I have as a partner to someone who experienced the very same circumstanses....you simply can not wrap your mind around the reality of this issue. It is real, and it needs to be addressed. Women need to take responsibility for their behavior as well, but the system does not require that of them. Women are excused at every turn for the horror that they contribute to the destruction of their own children and it is viemently ignored. All in the name of MONEY.....folks....this is REAL. VERY REAL. Ladies, PLEASE for the sake of your children, if it is the only thing you ever do.....take responsibility for your part. Children simply deserve to be with their daddies equally. Do not continue to disrupt that father/daughter bond. It is quite possible one of the worst things you could EVER put your child through.

The link above leads to a brief article about this situation and about Dr. Richard Warshak's book, Divorce Poison.

Thought you might find these of interest.

I was divorced nearly 25 years ago, thing were much worse for men back then. My Ex Wife will eventually put me through hell. We were young 22ish and had a Beautiful daughter, we had been married for just 10 months when the relationship fell to pieces. She was a Bartender with other plans with her customers, just a guess. But we separated and I was devastated at that time, I know this sounds cliché, but I would have given my right arm to have her and my daughter back. Having a beautiful baby girl at my age at the time truly taught me what Love really is. This obviously did not happen. Not long after our separation, within a couple months my ex and child moved in with, well call him Dan, well Dan was a police captain in a small town. The thing was I kind of liked Dan he would have been a great neighbor .Then it started… My visitation was to be… that I would have my daughter every Sunday and every other weekend overnight, plus alternating Holliday’s. Ha Ha Ha. This of course never happened. I don’t want to make this to long (but there is a lot to say) after a couple of months of my visitation my daughter was at my home and referred to Dan you know that other guy, As Daddy Dan and I was Daddy James granted out of the mouths of babes. This was only the beginning, then she cant come to day because Dan's family was having a party, everything revolved around her new relationship ,she got pregnant, had a son, saw my Daughter less. Went back to court the judge signed an order, I went to pick up my daughter and again they were going somewhere and told her that I had a signed order and it was Sunday. I did go to the local police station and was told to see the judge. So back to court and he signed another order, and spoke with now Husband Dan “a Cop “ I get What can I do James.

Ok I guess you get by now my daughter is now 26 has a 2 year old child that I have not met, nor have I set eyes on her in at least 7 years. This story is for more interesting than I have the time for now or you patients. One thing Mom became a Heroin addict add lost custody of her children I got custody of mine Dan got at that time 4. my Daughter lived with me and my new family for 5 years till 18> The poisoning of her ran deep and here I am telling you this 27 years after it all started. I LOVE MY CHILD

James, your story was really sad and touching. I hope your daughter finds her way back to you.

How did this blog get overrun by creeps talking about their personal problems????

Bunny,

Your sensitivity is overwhelming!  I sure hope you don't work in the family court system.

One who knows:  well put know can even imagine what us dads have to do just to show LOVE to our Flesh and Blood. Nothing seems good enough for these court, and it doesn’t matter what state you may live. I went through it, as I type there is still a tear on my cheek literally. YEARS LATER THE PAIN REMAINS, I still hope for a relationship with my Precious Child and now also Grandson. I don’t even know his name, if not for some freak luck I would not now he exists. I’m only 47 hopefully time is on my side.

Well as for Alec, I thank him for what he has done and for what he is doing now.

Yeah Yeah the tape we should have never heard it in the first place, this is the case in point, get a few well paid divorce lawyers in a room and this is gold. I have 4 sons now 12 years 10, 8 & 5 years, well I will tell anyone their are times when you immediately say to yourself “oh I shouldn’t have said that” or you did something stupid. I am not talking about Abuse just life. I am lucky now my boys live with me so I can respond to a parental screw-up when it happened. As for Mr. Baldwin he was on a tape maybe a couple thousand miles away, what do you do? There is Honey I’m really sorry I did not mean to say that, dads just frustrated, not at you sweetie I just need you to know that I love you more than anything else and I’m Sorry. Then to have that backed up by Kim (listen to me like I know these people) I do know people, there are at least a million couples going through this s@#% as I wax legal. Don’t get me wrong I’m not a Alec Baldwin fan especially his Politics.

But I do believe he is doing every man a great service with his book, not for his celebrity.  These parental issues would be were they where….. before the shocking trap Kim and her pen of Lawyers put into play. So I guess I need to thank Ms. Basinger as well THANKS KIM.

Well with a name like Bunny I'm sure he or she sits to the right of some Judge out there.

I would personally love to hear what bunny has to say that has something?

MomofBeens  Thank you I needed that today...You should hear the whole story. Have a great day.

It is no suprise that it is overwhelmingly women who are put off by this topic of discussion. It is women who are overwhelmingly the perpetrators of PAS. Before anyone attacks that statement, I suggest you do your homework. There are stacks and stacks of research to back this up as well as peer reviewed studies....so.....I am prepared to debate this should anyone think that I am incorrect in my stating of the facts. I do not present this to be argumentative, I state this in the hope that it will motivate people to read and learn. Alec is not the first to write a book on this topic and I am sure will not be the last. It is his celebrity status that helped to propel the attention to this fantastic expose of the family court system. I urge everyone to research this topic as well as the corrupt family court system. There is NO exaggeration in Alec's book. He is spot on the truth. Please, if you are in the midst of a divorce, for no one other than your kids....please put them first above ALL else and know that the courts are the very last place that will make right the horrible wrong of no fault divorce.  

Miss Kat,

I would like to pint out that you said: "I am trying to work out a reasonable schedule" rather than WE. Visitation is not about YOU it is about the developmental well being of a child that you created with his/her FATHER. He was a good enough parent to you at the time you were making the child, so what makes him less of a father now? Children NEED BOTH parents equally. Not one more than the other. Please try to understand that. By YOU taking control of when your ex can and can not see the child you two made TOGETHER, you are in that very action alienating your child against his/her father. Ther is no reason in the world that he should not spend as much time as possible with his child IF he was affordrd this prior to your break up. This is something that the two of you should work out together rather than creating unnecessary stress for your young child. I hope that makes sense to you and others who may be in the same situation. Put your frustrations with your ex aside for the sake of the children. It is really that simple.

I can't even imagine being in your position James. I would be utterly devestated. My parents got divorced after being married for 27 years. My father had philandering issues and when they split my mother went to work telling me every horrible thing he had ever done. I went through a period of hating him, but after having my own child it put things into perspective. He's still my father, and even if I don't like his behavior, the love doesn't go away. So I hope your daughter gets to a place where she can at least sit down and talk with you. Life is too short and there is already enough hate in the world.