Strollerderby

LilySea, with all due respect, I think you may be forgetting someone...those of us straight kids who would actually like to get to know kids of different orientations. It's kind of hard to relate to people of any group without actually knowing them, and I think separating LGBT students from the rest makes casual inter-identity conversations in relaxed settings kind of hard. Not that this is the only issue at play here--I agree with the pointsin your article--just putting in my 2 cents as a teenager.

@Della-agreed. I want my kids to grow up in a mix of different orientations, race, genders etc. I think thats how you build tolerance (and with some help from the parents). I think once the kids are exposed to all different sorts of people on a regular basis their differences aren't an issue. Well thats what im hoping will happen (at least in my kids instances).

They aren’t ripping all the gays from local schools and sending them off to be with eachother.  Afterall, many young people aren’t even sure if they are gay while still in high school. Most gay kids are capable of remaining in mainstream schools and they are happy to stay with their friends even if being a queer teenager isn't always puppies and rainbows.    

Specialized schools tend to serve students whose orientation is so problematic in their lives that it is preventing them from getting an education.  Some of these kids are emancipated and living on their own because their homelives were intolerable or they were rejected by their guardians.  Other students may be trans-gendered teens who are less accepted and whose special needs aren't being met in a mainstream school.  These needs can be emotional or academic.  At a queer school, students get psychological help and social services that are an important part of getting them to graduation day.

The fact is that your school and my schools will always have queer kids. If you teach your kid that being gay or trans is something to be accepted without mockery or malice, they will get that message.  

And trust me, these schools are not places studens wuold want to attend unless they were having a really hard time. And angry or rejected children do dangerous shit.  In my hometown there is a real problem with the trans-gendered students getting beat up by other students.

There's a reason the queer community supports these programs.  They don't want queer kids to be ghettoized any more than you do.

Well, yes - the Harvey Milk school says it will admit kids who are not queer identified.  But I highly doubt any kids who weren't would want to attend.  

I don't know about the Chicago school, but if you click over to the website for the the Harvey Milk program, it specifically mentions that its goal is to service the needs of AT-RISK kids.  These aren't kids who are at risk of being teased.  They are often at risk for injuries or at risk of becoming homeless or simply at risk of dropping out.  

And while you don't need to be queer to be interested in queer studies or civil rights, I think it's unlikely that a non-queer (straight?) kids would be so interested in those subjects that they would leave a local school to attend a queer program.  Most of those kids would simply start up a Gay/Straight Alliance club or join a local protest or parade group.  (All good acts imo. I admire the kids who run The Gay/Straight alliance clubs.)

That being said, it could also be a place where kids of queer parents would feel welcome.  I could see being at risk or interested enough if you have queer identified parents or siblings. Or maybe if you're good friends with someone who is queer.  

I doubt most kids want to attend these schools.  Most teenagers want to stay with their friends and in their schools, even when they aren't perfect.  Like the people who run these schools, I'm looking forward to a time when these schools are no longer necessary.  

With all due respect, Della, queer students shouldn't be forced  to stay in high schools that are unsafe because straight kids want to say that they know a gay person. Schools weren't desegregated primarily so that white students could interact with black people up close -- they were desegregated because black students didn't have access to the same educational resources. Would you deny the right of an African-American student to choose (and here is the heart of the argument -- that all people should have choice)to go to an historically black college because she doesn't want to face both the blatant and subverted racism that is rampant in most (predominantly white) colleges and universities? Would you argue that we have a responsibility to shut down HBCs because their existence is detrimental for white students?

In an ideal world where queer students weren't harassed and killed because of their sexual orientations and gender identities (check out just two examples: www.rememberinglawrence.org/  and www.sfgate.com/.../article.cgi ), maybe we could talk seriously about the importance of people meeting people who are different from them for  social and intellectual development. Maybe when schools (and, heaven forbid, the US government) commit themselves to protecting students' right to sexual and gender expression. Maybe then. But right now, though, this is an issue of life or death.

Great, thought-provoking piece LilySea. I continually argue that the issue for GLBT activists right now shouldn't be JUST gay marriage; at least not when are youth are being harassed, beat-up and even killed in their own schools.

beeker:

<i>Well, yes - the Harvey Milk school says it will admit kids who are not queer identified.  But I highly doubt any kids who weren't would want to attend.</i>

So queer kids need to shut up and get with the heteronormative program because, while straight kids want "diversity", they wouldn't go so far as to volunteer to be in the actual minority?

I'm excited for such a school in Chicago. It's needed.

To the parents of straight kids who want their straight kids to benefit from exposure to Queer kids, I say this: Queer kids have enough going on in their lives without being expected to serve as object lessons in "diversity". Just like other "minorities", they want to get their education and do their social growing and come to know themselves on their own terms -- tasks which are currently severely curtailed by the prejudice and abuse they too often face in our schools (public, private, charter, whatever). Diversifying straight kids' lives shouldn't really be on their priority list.

Your straight kids have plenty of opportunity to mingle with Queers of all ages here in Chicago. YOU have plenty of opportunity to prioritize LGBT interaction as a family, like volunteering with About Face Theater or one of the many programs at the Center on Halsted or Howard Brown Health Center. If you want your kids exposed to Queeritude, take them to where the Queer folks are already hanging out feeling safe and happy in their Queerness. Then your Queer-friendlied straight kids can take their good attitudes back to their schools and help smash the phobic BS that makes school so miserable and dangerous for the many LGBTQetc. kids who have no safe spaces of their own.

It's good for majorities to experience being in the minority. Find ways to put your kids in that position instead of expecting Queer kids to teach your children how to "tolerate" them.

(And while we're at it, can we please get rid of that horrible word? I don't want to be tolerated! I don't want heteros to believe they're doing me a great service by *tolerating* me and my kind, esp. our youth! Yuck!)

Kate: That's not what I said or meant.  It's not about wanting diversity.  It is about attending a school for at-risk students.  

Many straight kids will happily join groups of gay kids and be in the minority.  There are all sorts of kids who join organizations that promote acceptance of queer people.

From the Harvey Milk School website: "HMHS and The Hetrick-Martin Institute care about the needs of children in crisis and focuses on their educational needs."

Are there straight kids whose educational lives are in crisis because they are passionate about queer activism and civil rights?  Maybe I am wrong.

I know it's selfish, but if it was my straight kid, I probably would not want him at this school.  Not because the students were queer, but because my child would hopefully not be in crisis. I would want my child's school focused on HIS needs.  If he wanted to volunteer and make friends, I think that would be fine.

My comments were that the objections commonly made against these schools come from a misunderstanding of what they do.  This school serves students in crisis.  They are NOT encouraging queer kids en mass to leave their local schools.  They are not exclusionary, but it is just unlikely a student who is straight would join just because of passion for justice or civil rights when that passion can be channeled without switching schools.  

But I do suppose there could be kids at risk because of their connections with gay friends or family.

I just don't think the fears about serving kids with unique needs are warranted.  Some kids have unique needs and if this helps them, we should support it.  The queer community appears to support the school, so that makes me think its goal isn't either exclusionary or to isolate other kids from queer people.  

There have certainly been instances of peer abuse against straight kids who ally with LGBTQ kids, mostly of the "YOU must be gay TOO because you LIKE THEM!" flavor. Also, there are straight kids who present as Queer despite their hetero inclinations, as well as some kids whose general freakiness lumps them in with the LGBT kids by default. In addition to the kids who are harrassed because their parents are gay/lesbian/trans, I can see how a certain contingent of heterosexual kids would end up feeling safer and better served by The Gay Magnet School than by a regular neighborhood school. If some other straight kids want to attend for the social-justice aspect, right on for them.

Here, quoted from the HMI/Harvey Milk FAQ:

[quote]

Q: Who comes to HMI?

A: It’s exciting, it’s comfortable and it’s mad cool! Above all HMI is a safe place where young people can be who they are without the fear of being ridiculed, harassed, beaten up, or treated different.  

It doesn’t matter whether you identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or straight, transgender female or male. It doesn’t matter if you are “Out, loud and proud” or on the “DL”.  “In the Closet” or “Living Large”.  You can be a goth or a geek; a baller or a candy raver,  --- or, WHATEVER.

If you are 12 to 21 and want to be a part of a progressive youth program set in a hate-free space, then HMI is for you.

[/quote]

If I had a kid who fit any of the above descriptions, including wanting to be educated in a dedicated "hate-free space", I'd sign them up with bells on. Wish we'd had an option like this when I was in high school, in a town where punks & Goths were regularly harrassed and spat on (literally) regardless of our sexual orientation. I was Queer, but most of my friends were straight -- didn't matter. In the uncreative haters' eyes, "fag" and "dyke" cover a vast spectrum of reasons to make life hell for young people.