Strollerderby

I like it.

I totally agree.  

Very well put. I have been at a loss for how to discipline my toddler. Spanking never feels right and time-outs do not work for us. I've been just winging it and, worse, sometimes ignoring behavior I know I should be nipping in the bud. Your point makes perfect sense. I wouldn't want to be hit when I start getting out of control. I remove myself from the situation to cool off, so why can't I allow my child the same right? Thank you for putting it into perspective.

Sorry about how long this is.

I am a parent educator who works with fathers. Discipline is a huge issue for the men I work with (and, truth be told, in my house too). Here is my two cents.

You nailed why I am uncomfortable with the Supernanny timeout. Despite the fact that her methods seem to work for those families, there is always something about her method that didn't sit right. Now I know, it looks a lot like spanking without the hitting. There is a strong current of I can force you to do this because I'm bigger.

On the other hand, on Supernanny, we are looking at extreme cases. The biggest thing she is teaching is that there are consequences for breaking rules - something that these kids never had before, in a similar situation I might choose the same approach, but since I've never faced it, I don't know.

While her timeout is pretty jarring, it accomplishes a couple of things. It creates a predictability and structure within a household that didn’t have one before. Kids need that. They thrive on it, but they also push against it. When we can hold the line we provide a kind of emotional security. Remember that little kids process information differently than we do. Their brains can’t process all the stuff we can – they don’t have the depth of experience nor do they have the brain development. The other thing it does is set up the other part of discipline – the most important part, as far as I am concerned – teaching.

The more time we spend teaching WHAT TO DO, instead of punishing what not to do, the better things go, and that is what Supper Nanny does alongside the consequences of time out. Kate is absolutely right that many meltdowns (which I don’t consider timeoutable) can be avoided by being predictable and observant. I disagree that formalized rituals of discipline don’t teach as well as showing kids how to ask for help, etc, because you need to have something ready when they don’t do that, I think you need both.

That said, the most important thing is to parent in a way that keeps the kids safe, teaches them how to be civilized little humans, lets you sleep at night and works for your family.

p.s. plase try not to be too mad at a kid who does the same thing over and over again even though you told him/her not to. Just ahve them clean up the juice, pick up the mess, wash the wall, whatever, but don't take it personally.

brianc@strongfathersmaine.org

I do believe that children, grown up too, need to know there are consequnces to their actions.  Losing privaledges, including time with the family, are used at our house.  Sure, teach coping skills and how to self control, most parents do that along with punishment and discipline.  I think the time-out naughty chair does one very important thing for out of control children - it shows them who is boss.  Until you have a strong willed child who is very oppositional you are in no place to judge others parenting styles.  What works for one often will not work for another.  The feelings of humiliation, frustration and revenge are also feelings children must learn to cope with, not be shielded from them.  When you are dead and gone they will have to deal with them then.  The most graceful losers suffer great humiliation and frustration but have learned through experience how to process those feelings and deal with them.  Maybe they learned it early on the naughty chair.

Our toddler often needs a hug or re-direction rather than a time-out when it comes to meltdowns. With tantrums, I tend tell him what I expect of him and then ignore him. I might have to listen to his screaming for a couple more minutes, but typically, once I take my attention away from him, he realizes that this is NOT the way to Mama's good graces. Occasionally, I do tell him to go to his room until he can stop crying/calm down/feel happy again, though I guess that I don't necessarily consider this a time-out because I let him hold his animals, look at books, whatever he needs to do to get himself under control. (Is this technically a time-out, though, since I remove him from "the fun room" and the situation?) I tend to find time-outs exhausting and aggravating for both of us, which is why I choose not to do them.

I do spank, though. I was spanked when I was a kid for two reasons: being defiant or lying and am none the worse for it. We spank very rarely (and let me clarify, though some out there won't believe this, this is SPANKING, not hitting). Interestingly, this often seems to work because it is exactly what our son needs to snap himself out of a fixation and meltdown. I appreciate spanking because it is a once-and-done discipline: no feeling guilty for 3 minutes in the naughty chair and no negotiating with my kid. So, conversely, I use spanking for the same reason that the author doesn't use spanking or time-outs. All families are different.

I thought I'd share this about spanking. Laura you are right that it works in the short term, the problem is that is doesn't work so well long term.

www.slate.com/.../2200450

I didn't mean to open up the semantic can of worms spanking vs hitting. And I wasn't trying to rile up emotions by suggesting parents who spank are equivalent to people who actually hurt their kids by hitting them. On the other hand I am committed to parenting without violence and I consider spanking an act of violence - even if I'm the one who does the spanking. I have, but hope I won't again. And yes, I got spanked and don't think it ruined me either.

Supernanny does not use timeouts for toddlers. And a meltdown and deliberate hitting/disrespectful language/dangerous behavior are two totally different things.

I wasn't going to bother to post until you claimed that most people who do timeouts also spank -- I don't think I'm doing things the "right" way, just the way that works for us. I do not hit my child, we do timeouts and she is a pretty well behaved, independent, secure and loved child.

I really don't understand why so many parents feel the need to demonize and belittle the choices of others in order to validate their own choices.

I completely agree with "Irritable"--especially the last sentence. Thank you!