Strollerderby

Should you also educate yourself about breastfeeding if you really want to do it too???

I read 2 books and called LaLeche before my last two children were born.  I knew what was what before I tried.  Needless to say, I didn't have enough of a supply to feed any of the 3, but it wasn't because I didn't know what I was doing or didn't try.  Or because I wasn't given any information at the hospital or misinformed at the hospital.

Can I believe these things happen, sure....but isn't it up to us as mothers to at least make an attempt to educate ourselves too?

The lactation consultant I had was the meanest woman ever. She really injected  such a great deal of anxiety into the whole learning process. She would become very impatient very quickly with both me and my daughter. It was not fun at all. I was so tired after my C-Section and this was not the person I needed to have helping me. I felt if left alone I would have done a better job. But no there was this nasty looming bulldog of a woman constantly jumping into my private moment.

TolaniLucia, I had several horrible lac consultants also. I had a c-section, and I remember her coming into my room the same day with a pump telling me I had to pump every 2 hours. (My son was in the NICU.) Thank goodness the nurse came in right after, told me I really needed to rest because I just had abdominal surgery, and that sleeping for 1 night would not affect my supply in the long run, and would probably help because an exhausted mom would probably have more problems. She also explained how my milk would not come in for a few days. You know what, the nurse was right!

I actually find the lactation consultants to be the most misiformed. (I had several bad experiences with a few more of them after I left the hospital.) They were all so impatient. How can this be? They are supposed to be the experts!!! I was thinking that their education must be very poor, or that is must be very easy to become a lactation consultant, so they get the lowest common denominator. I am really not trying to be mean, but I have heard so many awful stories about these people that there has to be some systemic reason for this. I am actually convinced that their attitude is one big reason why more women are not breastfeeding.

Like I said, the nurses actually helped me so much more, and they seemed to understand how my milk should be coming in.

Some people are saying you should educate yourselves beforehand. I did read several books and took a class on breastfeeding, but when you are exhausted after a birth and you have a lactation consultant telling you something completely different, there is so much confusion.

Damn Straight

This article is right on the money. Even in progressive, urban Washington DC I know tons of moms who "didnt have enough milk". I find this very hard to believe. How could our bodies be so remarkably INADEQUATE for sooo many women to be cursed with this? Ha. The hospitals are partly responsible.

You wrote that information about colostrum is in the baby books...so then why would you need a nurse to tell you about it? I think women need to be their own advocates and stop assuming that nurses and doctors have all the answers. The maternity Ward in a hospital is an assembly line: they want you to have the baby and get out as soon as possible. Empower yourself, educate yourself, and try to surround yourself with positive and helpful people when you get out of hospital. It took me three weeks of painful, bleeding nipples and a bad latching technique before my baby and I got the whole breastfeeding thing down. It takes time and patience. Hard work--but well worth it.

"And I put a lot of that blame on the misinformation swirling around the maternity ward where I gave birth to my daughter."

I'm glad you were smart enough not to take all the guilt on yourself.  And Jenn is right about women being their own advocates, having a lot of knowledge on board is the best solution.  And a support system (mom, sister, friends, etc.) who've also breastfed.

I don't know where you live but here in Seattle RN's and hospital staff are plenty informed about colostrum and that your supply doesn't come in for a few days. However, I do believe the lactation  consultants are overworked and don't get enough time to spend with each patient.

i wanted to breastfeed but i only made it one day after i left the hospital. and i had to beg the nurses to supplement with formula while i was still in the hospital. They had a nurse who had gone to lactation classes or something, but she wasnt a lactation consultant. and all she did was keep shoving my kids head on to my boob! My milk came in rather quickly, and i was already pretty big up top to begin with, and my daughter had a tiny little mouth. so it was practically impossible to get her to latch on right. and so it just hurt really bad, and the nurses just kept telling me the same thing over and over. i hated breast feeding, but i didnt want to admit it to the nurses because they kept pushing, and i didnt want them to think i was a bad mom.

The nurses I experienced were very helpful and very understanding.  They finger fed my last daughter to give me a break the first night.  When she seemed like all she wanted to do was nurse they exlpained that the constant need to suck was bringing in my milk and not to think that she was hungry and I wasn't giving her enough.  They also told me she wouldn't be "hungry" at first but just needed to suck out of instinct so that my milk would come in.  It was the lactation consultant who made me feel like I commited a crime allowing the nurse to finger feed with her all or nothing attitude.  She also told me to pump in between feedings because I must not be producing enough.  I actually stopped breastfeeding when I got home thinking I confused my daughter and must be starving her when the pediatrition assured me we could do both if my daughter was taking to it.  His positive attitude is what made me start nursing her again while supplementing some bottles.  Now we breastfeed with one bottle a day so daddy can feed her.  I wish more lacatation consultants would be willing to work with the woman and what would work best for her and her family rather than scare women into thinking there is only one way to feed their baby.  

As a labor & delivery RN, I'm saddened to hear about all the horrible experiences. Especially all the women who were tortured after c-sections. It only takes a tsp of colostrum to count as a full serving. I always start any breast feeding education with the instructions to relax because it's perfectly natural for it to take some time for both baby and mom to get the hang of things and if a tsp is all it takes in the beginning there's nothing to worry about. A lot of the troubles people encounter are symptoms of our beyond screwed up healthcare system where just about every action is based on avoiding being sued instead of being based on what's best for the actual humans involved. It always makes me cringe to hear about subpar nurses.

I was frustrated with the hospital where I gave birth because a nurse woke me up at 4 am telling me my daughter had lost too much weight and I was going to have to start supplementing. This was two days after I had a cesarean, and both of us were so full of water from waiting for surgery while hooked up to an IV that we jiggled. My daughter was incredibly large at birth, and my milk came in pretty early (by day 3), but I was told I wasn't feeding my daughter enough! I had done quite a bit of research about breastfeeding, my mother and best friend were successful breastfeeders, and my husband was extremely supportive, so I felt secure in my choice to continue exclusively breastfeeding. I just worry about the other mothers who delivered in that hospital who didn't have a strong support system. I know the hospital could have done a better job training its nurses about breastfeeding.

I also read a book about breastfeeding. However, I don't reccomend it. The book was a little overboard and I was so scared after my c-section and while my daughter was in NICU that I was going to dry up and start by failing. Luckily, I seem to have had the reverse experience. My hospital has only the best nurses and they were so kind and knowledgable. I even yelled at one because she did not wake me up in the night to pump. (I apologized later). I just knew that was it for me because the book was adament that I must pump or feed EVERY 2 hours. The nurse explained that I was sleeping so peacefully and after all I had been through, sleep was best.

It is a shame that lactation consultants have been bad for you. Mine gave me her home phone number in case I had problems in the night or after office hours. When I got thrush on my nipples she was the one who assured me that my daughters butt creme was safe for my nipples too. Cleared us both up in about 2 days. (We suffered for over a week with horrible treatments from my doctor. Do not use the violet stuff- it is nasty). If it wasn't for her I don't know what I would have done.

I am going to agree with the author (my favorite blogger) that the hospital staff is more influential and needs to be better educated. And, for heaven's sake, needs to be more compassionate.

'And, for heaven's sake, needs to be more compassionate.'

I think that is it more than anything..the nurses seem to forget how completely addled your brain can be if you are a new mom with this squalling pink thing that you have NO idea what to do with.

Between the constant checks of your foo foo to see if you are okay, to the annoying people shilling photos, you are supposed to be figuring out this equally confused new born and what your boobs do.

and rest.  and try to get the baby to rest.

Ha.

I am soooo happy about having a midwife this time around who is geared up for getting me out of the hospital as fast as possible.

Wow...my hospital not only had some pretty good lactation specialists and really great nurses, but they also offered a breastfeeding course in addition to new parenting and Lamaze classes.  Yes, I made my husband go with me and thank goodness because trying to breastfeed when you are a new mom is stressful.  He really kept me calm.

I wonder how much is regional?  I delivered at a top of the line hospital San Francisco that delivers lots of babies and deals with high risk pregnancies.  

So even though I was feeding my baby colustrum every 2 hours and she became dehydrated should I have not given her a bottle?  This is dumb.  Mothers choose to breast feed or not.  Blaming the hospital for not making them do it is ridiculous.  No one coached me, I demanded a bottle for her and still breast fed her for almost a year.  Why is it always some else's fault?  

Alice, I think you are missing the point. It is not the hospitals fault that some choose not to breastfeed. All we are saying is that the staff at the hospital should be better informed and more helpful to those who do want to breastfeed but are overwhelmed. No one should talk down or degrade a new mom for any choice she has made. The problem is when the nursing staff or lactation consultant is so rude and hurtful making the experience harder than it is.

mamallama: I am in southern oregon. Pretty rural area but a phenominal birthing staff in the hospital. Maybe it is the West Coast?? just kidding

After reading the books that advocate breastfeeding, I DID question some of the things that I was told at the hospital.  Why not ask??  Just like I'd ask if something was normal if I had any medical procedure.  It is my body and my baby's.  

And there is no victim here.  If your children are alive and well, you've done your job.  Really.  Acting as if getting pain meds, or had a c-section makes someone less a mother or woman is just plain stupid.  Everyone has different experiences and stuff happens.  Sure we all want the perfect birth, but the perfect birth, a beautiful breastfeeding experience, a perfect recovery aren't in everyone's cards.  But when something goes off of what is supposed to be all love and light (I'm not talking a big medical mistake here), we have to blame someone.  We are victims.......

If your baby is alive and kicking, you aren't a victim...now I have a friend who had her triplets at 23 weeks and none of them made it....Yeah, she has something to complain about.

I'm not saying you didn't run into your fair share of idiots when you tried to breastfeed, but what about personal responsibility???  Even 5 percent worth.  Or are you not responsible for anything that happens to you???  I would say it is a combination of factors and not just the mean old horrible people who work at the hospital.

Jeanne, I was not trying to blame you or attack you, or any other mother for that matter. I was suggesting that women take more ownership and responsibility when it comes to things like breastfeeding because, as much as we would like for things to be different in the medical community, things probably will not change. Doctors, nurses and lactation consultants are not infallible, and sometimes they do not have our best interests in mind.

Our society has strayed so far from the close-knit, supportive communitites that we used to live in. Women are often left alone to figure things out for themselves when they have their babies and I think that breastfeeding is one of those things that requires the kind of support that many women do not have access to. It seems that we have become disconnected from our bodies and from each other.

We need to educate and empower ourselves and each other and stop relying on the medical community to provide us with the support we need. I agree that this is what they are trained to do and what they should be doing but obviously that is not the reality. Read many books, call you local La Leche League, reach out to other mothers who have breastfed their babies and understand that it can be very hard and very exhausting to learn to breastfeed.

I wish all new mothers out there the best of luck - whether they are breastfeeding or bottlefeeding. We are all trying to do the best we can, we need to support each other as much as possible.

You said it, Jeanne!

Jeanne,

I'm not completely saying, "Put up or shut up."  What I am trying to say, (and obviously not saying it well) is that women get pregnant and they hear all kinds of stories and fairy tales.....They make birth plans and when everything doesn't happen exactly the way it should happen in their mind, instead of being thankful for what they do have--a healthy baby, they freak out and must either turn themselves into a victim or blame someone for whatever happened that wasn't all that it was supposed to be.  

I think telling women that they may or may not run into nurses, doctors and lactation consultants who are less than knowledgable in the area of breastfeeding.  They need to start thinking about this when they find out they are pregnant, and they need to read up on the latest findings and interview doctors, go on hospital tours, talk to OB nurses, join LaLeche, check out bfing materials at the library or buy a book.  They also need a supportive person who will also act as an advocate for the bfing mom and baby and make sure everything is done to insure the BEST chances of success.  

And then, yes, you have to let it go.  Really, because how long are you (and I'm not directing this at one person) gonna hold on to this stuff???  When your kid is 21??? You are a grandparent???

If you want to help women, they need to be empowered, not made into a victim.  Tell them and show them what they need to do....

Sheri, I would agree that we should all try to "let it go" eventually when anything disappointing or upsetting happens in life. The point here is that some hospitals are not serving mothers and babies very well. There is no way that medical institutions and professionals should get off the hook, and that we should put the entire responsibility on patients. Part of feeling empowered is standing up for better treatment. When so many women are voicing the same feelings about their breastfeeding experiences in hospitals... maybe it's time for some things to change.

I was also determined to breastfeed, and I have, exclusively, for a year now.  However, I managed it despite the mishmash of misinformation I got from the (well meaning) nursing staff at my hospital.

I was shown how to latch by one nurse, then yelled at that I was doing it wrong by another.  I was told that my milk wasn't coming in and that if my baby's weight didn't go up soon, I would have to supplement, then told (an hour later) that my baby was setting a new hospital record for speed in returning to birth weight.  All the nurse told me that it shouldn't hurt at all, even a little, so I kept pulling my son off and relatching, frustrating us both to no end.  Finally, one of the nurses allowed as she always thought it did hurt a little in the first few seconds when the milk was coming down.

I ended up using a nipple shield for a couple of weeks, and I was told to pump to keep my supply up, since the shield did not provide full stimulation, but no one could agree on how often.  I was told 12 times a day, no 6, no 8.  I finally ended up with a blocked duct and seriously engorged breasts.  It turned out my supply was already really strong, which was actually part of why my son had trouble latching (my nipple was too full for him to compress it easily), and all the pumping just made the problem worse.

I did take classes, and read books.  I spoke extensively with a relative of my husband's who is a lactation expert.  I was prepared, going in.  But post-c-section, with a spinal headache, little to no sleep, and a half dozen nurses and doctors all telling me something different, all the prep I had done was useless.

I am grateful for my beautiful, healthy baby, and I'm glad I stuck with it and learned to trust my own instincts.  I don't dwell on the difficulty I had in the beginning, but comments like the ones above declaring that women should stop playing the victim and bel glad for what they have really anger me.  My family and I went through hell those first few weeks because of the contradictory and overly broad information we were given.  If I hadn't been so hell bent on making breastfeeding work, I might have been talked out of it, despite having a baby with a strong suck and good latch and a strong supply of milk.

The next time I go through this, I'll know better, but I have 4 friends all due in the next couple of months.  I've told them all about my experiences, but I worry that they'll be where I was, tired and scared, desperate for the "experts" to help them make sure they do everything they can for their little ones, and terrified that they're not doing enough.  

The point is not that our experiences weren't perfect, or that we want to dredge up old slights so we can complain.  The point is, new moms shouldn't have to go through all of this.  Being a new mom is hard enough without medical professionals actively making things worse, and the only way to improve the situation is to talk about it.

Manjari: You said: "Sheri, I would agree that we should all try to "let it go" eventually when anything disappointing or upsetting happens in life." I actually disagree. If we all 'let it go,' then what about the women who come after us? Do we all have to suffer in silence, being brave soldiers who accept that such is life?

My experience with nursing has shown me how important and difficult it is to get that support when you are feeling most vulnerable: in the hospital post partum and then if you are having any problems later on. With both of my daughters, I had both very positive and very negative experiences with nursing support. They were both delivered at a state of the art hospital in Boston, but I had mostly negative experiences with the consultants at the hospital. The first time was worse -- one consultant insisted that I sit straight up to nurse, in spite of having just had a second degree tear and significant stitching. She was unmoved by my tears and dismissive of my efforts, and on reflection I'm sure my milk was slower to come because I was under so much stress from her treatment. Lord, I wanted to deck her. If I hadn't been so adamant about nursing (AND taken the breastfeeding classes AND read the books) I never would have kept trying.  I did find a great lactation consultant afterwards, Gail, who helped me in every way by being compassionate and lovely as she guided me toward doing the best thing for the baby. I swear they could even have said the same things but the way Gail said them I felt like we were on the same side. I partly credit her with the fact that I was able to nurse my older daughter until she was 2.

With my second baby, I had a similar run-in with two terrible consultants at a hospital when I found out that she wasn't gaining weight adequately in spite of nursing around the clock. They ganged up on me and insisted that I 'just' start pumping after every feed -- and were absolutely appalled at the suggestion that I supplement with a bottle while I worked to get my supply back up. Luckily I ignored their 'advice' and now my baby's 7 months and exclusively breastfed, in the 95th percentile for length, but only because I had the strength of conviction (and experience from working with Gail) to ignore those terrible consultants and just do what was right for my baby.

Jennifer, I think you and I are actually in agreement. What I was saying was that I understand Sheri's assertion that we can't dwell forever on every disappointment, but I went on to say that I think things need to change in hospitals and that patients should stand up for better treatment.

It is absurd to say that despite the immense sums we spend on medical treatment, we shouldn't expect medical "experts" to give us the correct advice. Just what the hell are we paying them for, then? We should be angry and we should demand better. We can't all be experts on every subject - that's why we pay people to do things we don't know how to; that's we we go to hospitals instead of curing our own diseases and having babies at home. To blame moms for not going out and finding out things that the experts they pay are supposed to know? come on!

Just out of curiosity, can anyone comment about their experience in prenatal classes?

I've never had a baby in the U.S. (the experience this research seems to be based on) or in a hospital, for that matter, but when I had my babies in the U.K. we had midwife-led pre-natal classes for both parents that ran one evening per week for 6 or 8 weeks. Breastfeeding was covered in these classes. Is that not the same in the U.S.?

I only had a little input from midwives in the birth centre following the births of my children, but they checked our latch and offered some encouragement. There was no big deal made of it; I put in my birth plan that I intended to breastfeed and that was respected. No one offered my children any formula. No one 'decided' that there was a breastfeeding problem on my behalf. I assume that if I had said I had a problem, they would have helped... Having said that, both my babies were born at night and I was home by noon the following day. If American women tend to stay in hospital for longer, I guess there would be more opportunity for interference.

Until becoming a Babble reader, I had never heard of anyone being told that their milk wasn't coming in fast enough and that their babies were losing too much weight while they were still in hospital. (I'm not sure how long on average women stay in hospital in the States, though.)I read a post on Babble recently where the mother said, according to her doctor, her baby had lost too much weight at her THREE DAY CHECK. Why the hell would anyone weigh a baby at a three day check when in all likelihood your milk would just barely be in? Of course, babies will have lost weight at this stage. Think about babies thousands of years ago - before formula or scales. I don't think women found wet nurses when their babies were three days of age and the species survived pretty well. Seems to me it's just part of nature's rhythm.

I think it's appalling that very professionals who are supposed to be there to support new mothers post-partum are undermining their confidence and jeopardizing their chances at successful nursing. Of course the staff on duty in maternity wards should be trained in breastfeeding counselling. Really, there should be people there who have first hand experience at breastfeeding. American women who have suffered through this should definitely stand up and be counted so that future generations have a better start to their breastfeeding experience.

It does beg the question: If the American medical system is structured as a private enterprise, shouldn't you be getting what you are paying for? I would assume that you should be able to demand the best care, best choices and best staff or you will take your business elsewhere. I guess the insurance companies make that impossible, though, so why have a private system when the customer seems to lose out so often? More often than not, I read about new mothers who have had disappointing birth/post-partum experiences in the U.S. It breaks my heart that normal, labouring mothers are treated as medical patients and that a normal, healthy birth is seen to be a retroactive diagnosis for so many women there.

I can't help but wonder if there's a link between the profit-making nature of 'care' in the States vs the nature of care in countries with universal healthcare.

Just re-read that last sentence and it doesn't make any sense. Apologies.

Obviously the healthcare on offer in the U.S. varies greatly from state to state, city to city, facility to facility. Overall, though, I can't help but wonder if there's a link between the quality of care and the fact that there is the profit-driven medical system of the U.S.

It seems that having entirely private healthcare is a completely viable (fantastic, even) option if the end users are completely satisfied. But with 40% of Americans without ANY health insurance and a huge number of dissatisfied (seemingly damned angry) people who DO have insurance, I'm wondering whether satisfied users actually constitute a majority. What percentage of the end users actually do feel satisfied with the profit-driven system?

Universal healthcare has its flaws, to be sure, but it seems to me it's a system that's largely care-driven and that's a huge benefit to the end users.

VOR: hear, hear!

The only thing I hear from defenders of the profit-driven US system is that state-funded health care is supposedly "worse." But there's only anecdotal evidence that it's worse - and the lower infant mortality rates in the countries with state-funded health care are not anecdotes indicating that a state-run system is better, they're proof.

Voice of Reason: With my first daughter I was in the hospital five days starting Wednesday. I deliverd on Friday afternoon via emergency c-section. With my other two, I had scheduled c-sections including 3-day stays. All my kids were weighed before leaving. With my first one, she was born weighing 6 lbs, 5 ounces. In the three days before we left her weight had dropped to 5 lbs, 10 ounces. The hospital told me if she lost one more ounce, she would be staying. I don't know that I have ever packed up so fast. I knew she was fine and we weren't staying. All babies lose a bit of weight after delivery but somehow medical professionals act like each time it is an absurdity.

JeanneSager: Thanks for the good posts that are interesting and relevant. Much appreciated!