Strollerderby

I think this is just politically correct going wrong.  The parents should be in charge of what their kids experience until maybe Twelve or Thirteen years of age rgeb the child  can choose for themselves This seems like parents trying to get cash to me.

I would have been livid if my children were taught to memorize that song and then told they couldn't participate at all if they didn't sing it. I don't know if I would have pursued the lawsuit after the song was yanked from the program... I think changing the song would have been my goal.

I wouldn't pursue the lawsuit after the song was removed, but I would still be mighty pissed off that it was ever introduced in the first place.  I wasn't familiar with it and just now couldn't get through the entire video.  It blatantly stating that America is a Christian nation and all better fall in line.  It's scary stuff if and the teacher should be disciplined for her religious persecution.

The kids probably had no idea what the song was about.  Yes, the teacher should have checked with the parents before the song was chosen, but in my opinion, it probably wasn't as big a deal as it was made out to be.

They didn't need to pursue a lawsuit. Just saying they found the song offensive and asking for a different one to be used should have been enough. The teacher was out of line to exclude some students, but that should have been easy to remedy without a court case.

I would be angry, just like those parents. But I'm not a big fan of sue-happy people, either.  

I don't like it when people try to influence my 5-year-old about religion. We are raising our children without religion (I grew up Catholic and ditched it as soon as my parents let me), but I read books to my daughter about ALL the world's religions and when she's older I will support her if she chooses a religion on her own (and my son, too, but he's only 1, so we haven't reached that topic with him yet).  

I live in the South, where it is common for the cashier at the grocery store to tell me to have a "blessed day" and I have people coming door-to-door trying to recruit me to their church monthly. I've just grown to accept that this is how people are here, but I still don't like it, and I feel it's important for those of  us who don't believe teaching Christianity (or any religion) in school should speak up, and speak up loudly. Unfortunately, sometimes the only way to make a point is to sue.

What's fascinating is how none of the parents (at least from what was written) are concerned at all about the blatant Christian nationalism of the Diamond Rio song. This is a song Christians should be outraged over, not secular parents. Songs like this continue to perpetrate the myth of the Christian nation. This isn't a religious song. It's a nausea-inducing obfuscation of the Gospel that should outrage Christian parents more than anyone else. But who am I kidding to ask so much...

As an atheist family, I would be furious.  As a public school administrator, I would be furious.  At some point in this country we have to learn to stop pushing our beliefs on other people.

I just find it funny that this is the *St. John's* County School Board.

Excerpt from the song - sounds like the teacher was trying to make a point.  The parents were absolutely right to be outraged.  You should see the local paper coverage of this, though.  Nothing but support for the teacher.  I mean, seriously - look at the last line:  "all believers?"  Not in this family.

"Now there are those among us, Who want to push Him out.

And erase his name from everything, This country's all about.

From the schoolhouse, to the courthouse,

They're silencing His word,

And now it's time for all believers, To make our voices heard!"

Melissa- I agree with you. I have heard the song and it's cute but it is not religious.

I would be more upset that my kiddo was singing a song about someone dieing. That would bother me quite a bit. The song makes me cry a little. It is sad not uber-religious.

Want to know the difference between religious and non-religious people? The non-religious are loud and bitter. When my daughter brought home a book (in first grade) about gay penguins, I was outraged. I took the book and my concerns to the principal. I did not go to a lawyer nor to the media. And, yes, this fits the topic as it teaches different then my religion that governs my household. Why should these things be available to my children but not a song that says the forbidden word "believe" in it?

If we are going to fairly fight this battle of church and state, we need to include all the components. Especially because the misused clause was meant to keep a religious sect from governing. It was not meant to keep religion out of government. There is a huge difference.

And Tango Makes Three is a book about actual penguins in a zoo - it's a true story, and the illustrations look nice too. Nothing short of homophobia or intolerance would make someone complain about that book.

Just looking at the excerpt sumoo has quoted here I can say that this is an incredibly inappropriate song for school children to sing in a school concert. There are people in this country who aren't religious and those that are religious, but don't happen to be Christian. Everyone needs to feel welcome and included in school. Plenty of religious people are loud and bitter. I've met them on the street corners of my college campus telling me I'm going to hell (for belonging to another, MUCH older religion). I've met some quieter people who ring my bell to tell me "the good news." As Kyle said in the comment above, "At some point in this country we have to learn to stop pushing our beliefs on other people."

As an atheist, I think this song is beyond ridiculous. I understand why some parents think suing is going too far, but honestly, I believe we need loudmouth, annoying people at the extreme to push the center to a more reasonable place. People at a public school should immediately see why a song like this is inappropriate. If it takes a fear of "sue-happy people" to make others follow sensible constitutional amendments, so be it.

Manjari- I guess the book is well known. Homophobia is not my problem nor is intolerance but I really don't want to fight this battle again with you. My problem was the conversation that followed with my young daughter and her confusion. My family's chosen religion and morals govern our household. It is not the school's job to teach those things. My point is, if people are so hellbent to keep religion out of school, they need to also keep the absence of religion out of school. Does that make sense? Yes, schools should teach kindness to all people without specifics but primarly the school should teach math, language, science, etc.

Like I said, I would not have liked this song but for different reasons. And if I don't want my children to learn about Islam teachings (for example) then I have to respect that you don't want yours learning about Christianity. I am okay with that.

It is not just that it is religious, it is that it is partisan.  I am a Christian and an American and I still don't want the 10 Commandments on the courthouse door, which means to Diamond Rio I am neither sufficiently Christian nor American.

Oh and congratulations for not suing over Tango Makes Three.  But since other religious people have sued over Tango Makes Three that's not really the difference between religious and non-religious people.  It is the difference between sue-happy people and not sue-happy people.  Or maybe the difference between people who feel the principal listens to their concerns and people who feel the principal ignores them.

I did not know anyone sued over that book?? That is crazy! I am pretty anti-lawsuit. It was a matter that we dealt with quietly as it should be. I did suggest the book be available to the school counselor to help a child that might benefit from the book. And to be kept away from my kids.

Twyla, I tired to bite my tongue about your abuse of church/state jurisprudence above, but now I'm goona say that it makes me sad and frustrated that you use some religious bigotry masquerading as principle to shield your kids from homosexuality. You know that many kinds of animals, including humans, engage in homosexuality, right? Why try to hide from your kids from something they can see by paying attention to the natural world around them?

Bean's dad: You are somewhat assumptious. I do not use any "religious bigotry" and I do not keep my kids from seeing the natural world. We also do not lift the tail of every animal to check and see if we are looking at a male or female. I have Will and Grace on DVD (love it) and my husband's aunt has been in a homosexual relationship for a very long time. She and her partner are very important to my kids. We spend time with them and adore them. We don't, however, discuss thier choices with our young children. We don't talk about them as acceptable or not. We just let them live thier life and we live ours. I don't know how that is bigotry.

The song is entirely religious and partisan.  That is a no-brainer.  It is specifically critical about those who are pushing religion away.

The lawsuit is about setting legal precedent.  Not trying to make money.  If money is involved, it is usually because that is the only consequence that will move people to action.  

Private school, your church and your home allow you to teach your children anything you want.  This is NOT a Christian nation, despite the majority.  The whole point of American self-government set forth by the founding fathers (and their brilliant wives), clearly stated, in hundreds of documents, is to avoid the tyranny of the majority.

Is this tyranny?  If there is no precedent to legally prevent this and the Public School can do whatever it wants with impunity, then yes, it is.  

Just because they wanted to avoid the lawsuit and changed their behavior in this one instance does not protect the Public from future problems.  This is a nation of Laws.  Sometimes those laws have to be clarified.  

It isn't malicious against Christians or rejecting them in any way.  It is simply preventing one group from acting as if it were the ONLY group and leaving everyone else behind, specifically when it comes to things paid for with Public funds.

The one thing my fellow Americans seem to be horrible at doing is seeing things from outside of their own head space.  Would you Christians like it if the music teacher was a Muslim and taught your kids a song about Jesus not being the Son of God, but just another prophet, like Abraham and Mohammed?  Would you want to make sure the school couldn't legally laugh in your face and ignore you next time around?

It is a bummer for the kids and the parents.  It was stupid of the music teacher to try to use this song.  Her decision will cause this to escalate and require money to be spent to do the clarifying.  And that is simply what is required here.  There should be a legal precedent set to clarify what is appropriate for Public schools so there aren't ongoing problems like this.