Strollerderby

As a cocktail waitress, I've always been told that I cannot refuse service except to someone who is intoxicated.  

As someone who has been pregnant, I would be pretty angry if that happened to me.

As someone who may or may not have *looked* pregnant while not actually with child, I would have LOST MY SH*T if someone threw me out of a bar for drinking while "pregnant."

Just sayin.

This pub was completely out of line.

Call me crazy, but I happen to think that you should not drink when you're pregnant.  I'm sorry it had to be the manager at a pub to teach her that.

Natalia, I'm curious, where did you get your medical degree from?

If you happen to think that you should not drink when pregnant... then don't.

The pub was out of line.

That's nuts! What's next - women like myself with a gut, no baby inside it, being kicked out of bars?

I'm with you Natalia.

I did go with friends to bars while I was pregnant but I didn't drink.  All of the warnings about fetal alcohol syndrome kinda gave me the impression that you shouldn't drink while pregnant. I guess I'm crazy too!

What's more important to you folks - protecting babies from undefined harm (no study has definitively indicated how much alcohol a woman must consume to give a fetus fetal alcohol syndrome), or protecting your own rights? Saying that women shouldn't be permitted to drink if they appear pregnant leads us down a slippery slope at the bottom of which the government arrests pregnant women for eating soft cheese, or for being overweight.

Whether you approve of this woman's actions or not, mothers have to be permitted to make their own decisions with regards to their children, unless the children are in immediate, definite danger.

Amen, Bunny. Ms. Williams may have been making a foolhardy decision, but unless we want to be required to submit fresh urine samples before entering a bar, amusement park, or purchasing Brie, we'll have to accept that some parents and parents to be will make dumb choices.

This story reminds me of a recent trip to IHOP, where I asked for coffee and was immediately given decaf. I ignored the decaf and helped myself to my family's carafe of regular coffee. But what if I were in Starbucks alone, and a high-handed barista refused to serve me?

Just a thought: was the pub afraid of getting sued by Ms. Williams? It would be just the thing in today's society for a woman to knock them back by the dozen at the pub, knowing she's pregnant, and then sue the pub who served her from not stopping her from drinking when her child develops FAS. Not unique to pregnant women, as dumb lawsuits are the worst nightmare of many property and business owners for lots of reasons.

Oh please....those of us with northern European ancestors survived the plague(s) thanks to beer(which required the boiling of water to brew)...  fetal alcohol syndrome is a real problem, but only for those who do some very serious drinking(which is to say those with serious drinking problems).  A half pint of beer every once in a while is not going to harm a baby, and may in fact be beneficial in terms of relaxing the mom.  

Granted a pint and a half would be more than I would be comfortable with, but we don't know how Ms. Williams metabolizes her beer, and a pint and a half would not be so much for her...  Either way, the pub owes her and her friends an apology.  

nah

i wouldn't want my shit fucked if i was that baby

Regarding the "slippery slope" arguments, this story makes me wonder if the bar was smoke-free. Let's assume it wasn't: funny that this self-righteous "manageress" drew some sort of ethical line between second-hand smoke and alcohol use. Now let's assume it WAS smoke-free: would she have stepped in if the same pregnant patron were to order cheese fries, based on the lack of nutritional value? Pah-leese. Live and let live, people.

In the not too distant past, women were given alcohol intravenously  to stop preterm labor. Moreover, current research is starting to show that FAS is not just strictly an issue of alcohol consumption-it's also tied in with nutrition.

It's a well known fact that fish, nuts and seeds provide essential oils and proteins for brain development... there is nothing new about any of the studies done or current research still on going. You just have to go to China to find this out, for example, eating certain fruit/vegetables after sea food creates a poison... also eating tomato's and cucumber creates a poison... this has been known for hundreds if not thousands of years in China, yet this has not come westward.

Drinking while pregnant really doest not do any favours to the baby's health, and neither does unintentionally eating mixed foods that create poisons. If you do not believe me, then I would recommend going to China and speaking to a high class chef, OR try eating lots of sea food and then lots of fruit (Vitamin C) and then tell me how you felt and how long you spent on the toilet after. :P

Bunny - amen^2.

I had exactly one drink during each of my two pregnancies (a Valentine's Day glass of champagne in one case, a birthday toast in the other) and both of them happened to be in public.  I don't know of a shred of medical data that indicates that a single drink during the course of a pregnancy is harmful, and I would have been SUPER pissed if someone else had decided they were entitled to kick me out for ordering one.

Just because a woman is pregnant, doesn't mean that the general public owns her body and can tell her what to do. Bunny, that may be the best comment I've ever read on this site.

Any parent/mother to be that puts their unborn baby in any risk (by drinking or whatever) is a disgrace to society. I would never dream of doing such a thing.... They are not responsible at all, but downright stupid, "oh it's my body, I can do what I like", get a life, you're pregnant, you're number one goal is to ensure no harm comes to the unborn child. I have been in this country for 3 years now, and I am beginning to understand why this society is so bad.

To the best of my knowledge, all Fetal Alcohol Syndrome studies are based on heavy drinkers. As in, "let's get drunk" heavy drinking. I don't drink during the first trimester, or really even during the second, but my nurse friends tell me that a glass of wine or bottle of beer (even one a day, if I remember correctly) during the 3rd trimester is fine. To which I say, "Bottoms up!" (Though I usually keep it to half a bottle.) Two healthy babies so far, incubating the third.

My 2 year old did ask for a "big beer" on his birthday though. Hmmmm, maybe something did enter his bloodstream in utero. =)

Which society would that be, Crystal?  My friends in France assure me that women drink moderately throughout their pregnancies there, and no one bats an eye.

While you were pregnant, did you drive or get into a car and allow someone else to drive you?  That's about highest-risk thing a pregnant woman can do, so I can only assume that you chose to walk every where you went while pregnant... that is, if you chose to leave your house at all.  After all, any woman who would take even the slightest risk is downright stupid!  Better to just stay in bed the entire 40 weeks.

Well I don't drive anyway. But the society in the UK is getting worse and worse, and I won't even go into what France is like. I remember reading one comment from a German woman on another site; "is it not illegal to drink while pregnant in the UK?". But please go ahead if you think that you have the right to, I won't be here for much longer, so the state can't take more money of me for supporting those born retarded because of their mothers actions.

Crystal: if the US, the UK, and France are so dreadful, what societies, if any, are OK with you?

Keep in mind, also, that prior to the '80s or thereabouts, no one knew that drinking during pregnancy caused FAS, and so there was no stigma on drinking during pregnancy. Smoking, either. So if drinking and smoking during pregnancy means a society is "bad," then our society has actually gotten much better, by your standards.

Japan/China are not bad, some eastern European countries also, you just have to look around, chav's, obese people, uneducated fools... all on the rise in the UK, and when you get kids that can't even do simple maths, it is only because the mother did not eat/drink the right stuff to encourage brain development...

A very very good example is China.... I have some Chinese friends who have done Master courses here (mostly maths courses), they found it so easy here because they were doing the same things that they had learnt throughout high school in China... yet that is the UK's master level. I found that hilarious.

Also, it is incredibly shameful to be a young single parent in China (not sure about Japan, but could be the same there also).... so the teenage pregnancy is far far lower. It is als quite shameful to be divorced. so whether you agree with any other policies there or not, that is the sort of moral that should be beaten into young people here.