Strollerderby : incest

American Incest Dad Gets 109 Years In Jail

Brett Singer — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 04:55:00 GMT

Austrian Incest Dad, meet American Incest Dad.

Josef Fritzl's American counterpart, Lindolfo Thibes of Los Angeles, was sentenced to 109 years in prison for having a sexual relationship with his own daughter and fathering three children with her.

"I hope he suffers," the daughter said. "I want him to die in there in jail because that's what he did to me. He confined me." She is 29 now; her father began abusing her when she was 6. He threatened to kill her if she told anyone, and used surveillance cameras to keep track of her. Thibes physically abused her as well.

Well, I guess this time, justice was served. Horrible story but now he'll be off the streets and out of his poor daughter's life. Physically, at least.

Source: Times of India

Image: SXC

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UPDATE - Josef Fritzl Sentenced To Life In Psychiatric Institution

Brett Singer — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 01:35:00 GMT

UPDATE: Josef Fritzl has been sentenced to life in a psychiatric institution. While onthe surface this seems like justice has been served, The Scotsman says that the ruling means he could be free in 15 years if a doctor says he's been cured of whatever they decide is wrong with him. Basically, Fritzl is eligible for parole in 15 years. It's not a big chance, but it could happen. Which would be bad. The Scotsman's Stephen McGinty does say that, "It is likely...that [Fritzl] will die in prison," since he is 73 years old.

Earlier posts follow.

*-*-*-*-*

Josef Fritzl's daughter Elisabeth testified against him on Tuesday, according to CNN. Thankfully, it was by videotape. Elisabeth and the children she had as a result of her father's abuse are living in an undisclosed location with new identities.

How do you go on after something like that? I'm amazed and oddly impressed that Elisabeth has the strength to go on living, much less testify against her father. Of course, I imagine she would like nothing more than to see him go to prison for the rest of his life.

The case has become a major media event in Austria, with crowds gathering in and out of the courtroom. Press has been barred from certain parts of the trial, including Elisabeth's testimony.

*-*-*-*-*

CNN is reporting that Josef Fritzl will plead guilty to rape and incest on Monday. He will not plead guilty to charges of "murder, enslavement and assault." Fritzl's lawyer says that his client "expects to spend the rest of his life in prison." Um, yeah, that sounds right. That said, the charges he's pleading guilty to carry relatively short prison terms -- five to fifteen years for rape, one year for incest. The biggest is the murder charge, which, as discussed below, some experts think will be tough to prove. I guess it's a good thing that Fritzl will definitely be found guilty of something, although if he goes to jail for only a couple of years, that would be tragic.

Original post follows.

*-*-*-*-*-*

Josef Fritzl, the man who kept his daughter locked in the basement for more than 20 years and impregnated her multiple times, is finally going on trial.

Disturbingly, he may spend only 15 years in jail. Or less.

According to London's Times Online, the "Austrian incest monster" is about to stand trial for "murder, incest, unlawful imprisonment and enslavement." Fritzl thinks that he could receive less than 10 years in prison.

He may be right. Some lawyers feel that the murder charge, which is based on the fact that he allowed one of the children he had with his own daughter to die, won't stick. That leaves rape as the biggest charge, which under Austrian law carries a 15 year sentence. Parole, good behavior -- he could be out in five years.

I know that everyone is entitled to a defense, but the one that Fritzl and his lawyer are offering is almost as disturbing as what he did. Fritzl is "claiming that his daughter was having sex when she was barely out of her teens. She smoked. She took drugs. She drank. He wanted to save her." His lawyer, Rudolf Mayer, says of his client: "He is not a monster. He loved his daughter in his own way." The father also says that he took good care of his "captives", citing the fact that the bird he bought them lived as evidence of good air quality in their underground prison. (This is at least consistent with the insane statements he made last year.)

As a quick reminder, Fritzl kept his daughter Elisabeth in the basement, along with some of the children they had together. Three of them were allowed to live upstairs -- the "upstairs children". The cellar was equipped with soundproof walls. Elisabeth was forced to write a letter saying that she had run away and joined a cult. This was a well thought out crime. Fritzl says that he is "not normal," but that's as close as he's come to an apology.

Making matters worse, prosecutors may cut a deal that will allow Fritzl to choose the prison where he serves his short sentence. One that lets him sing in a choir and take cooking lessons. When he gets out, he wants to go back home and live with his wife.

According to the Times, many feel that this situation could have been avoided if social workers had done their jobs. That may be the case, but the idea that this monster could get off with a light jail sentence in a country club prison is horrible. Not as horrible as what he did. But it's pretty close.

Source: timesonline.co.uk

Image: BBC

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9-Year-Old Incest Victim Aborts Twins, Church Objects

Cole Gamble — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:00:00 GMT

A 9-year-old carrying twins allegedly fathered via rape by her stepfather underwent an abortion in Brazil Wednesday, despite the objections of Brazil’s Roman Catholic Church. Abortion is illegal in Brazil, a country that holds the highest concentration of Catholics in the world.

The stepfather has been in jail since last week.

Fatima Maia, director of the public university hospital where the abortion was performed, said the pregnancy posed a serious risk to the 80-pound girl.

"She is very small. Her uterus doesn't have the ability to hold one, let alone two children," Maia told a Brazilian newspaper.

A lawyer for the archdiocese of northeastern Brazil said the girl should have carried the twins to term.

"It's the law of God: Do not kill. We consider this murder," the lawyer said.

The church excommunicated the mother of the girl and the doctors involved in the abortion. On Saturday theVatican backed that decision.

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In Praise of the "Manny"

Shannon LC Cate — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 16:00:00 GMT

After Amy Kuras posted this piece about Boy Scouts getting training to be baby sitters, I was surprised to see some of the comments assuming that male caregivers are de facto abuse risks to children. Not only do I think this is a woefully discriminatory way of viewing half the human population, I think there might even be some benefits to male caregivers that female caregivers don't offer. I propose that it can even be dangerous to exclude boys and men as boys and men from childcare and that using them as caregivers can even help prevent abuse.

First let me address the discrimination aspect. I am sure that many Strollerderby readers have fathers, husbands, brothers and perhaps old-enough-to-baby-sit sons who aren't abusers and could never be abusers. Of course they do. So I have to scratch my head at the knee-jerk fear some women express about the idea of a male baby sitter. To categorically dismiss all boys and men as potential abusers doesn't make sense. Yes, statistically, most abusers are "heterosexual" men, but statistically, most abusers are also related to the children they abuse. In fact, some statistics show that one third of sexual molestation is perpetrated by a parent. But I bet most moms don't refuse to allow their children's fathers to be alone with their children because of the statistical probability that they will be abusers. It would be ridiculous to use statistics that way, right? Relying on statistical percentages rather than actual knowledge of an individual baby sitter applicant would be similarly foolish.

I think categorically mistrusting male caregivers and categorically trusting female ones is in itself dangerous. Why? Because a false sense of security about a caregiver not being a molester because she's female could cause a parent to let down her guard about other possible dangers. First of all, there is that 1-10% of sexual abuse (depending on the study you look at) perpetrated by girls and women. Then there are the other dangers to children besides sexual abuse that are more evenly split between male and female caregivers. A frustrated caregiver of either gender might well shake a colicky baby, for example. It's important to consider many factors in selecting childcare. Assuming a man is an unsafe choice is a blunt selection method and doesn't seem to indicate the kind of thought that really needs to go into the decision.

I have used two men to provide a significant amount of care for my children. And their legal guardians in the case of their parents' deaths are their godfathers. One of my caregivers worked half-time on a regular schedule for my family for two years during one of which, he lived with us. He could not have done a better job. The single father of a grown daughter he had raised since his ex-wife left them both when the baby was under two, "Uncle" David was my older daughter's third parent from the moment she arrived in our home at three days old.

We currently employ a young man to care for our now four-year old and 18-month old daughters slightly less than half-time. He too is beloved by both of my children and plans to work for us throughout the next year or two while he attends a local community college. I am trying to encourage him to go into early childhood education. He would be a gifted preschool or elementary teacher. My only concern for him is the discrimination against men in that field.

My daughters have lesbian moms. They also each have a birth mother, as they are both adopted. Neither of them have men in their lives that meet our family's definition (or their birth mothers' definitions) of "father." Given the statistics, my girls are likely to grow up to be heterosexual women. When they go looking for men with whom to partner, I want them to have a clear sense that men not only can, but should be nurturing, loving and caring. I want them to have a strong expectation of nothing less. And if they happen across men who offer them less, I want them to recognize that quickly and move on. Giving them male caregivers during their tender years is the best way I can think of to imprint these expectations in their psyches.

But it isn't just faraway romantic benefits I hope male caregivers give my daughters. It's also prevention of abuse in the present. With a concrete example of the proper boundaries of a loving male baby sitter (or uncle, or grandfather, or godfather--which my daughters also have), my girls might better be able to recognize a breach of those boundaries by a would-be abuser encountered in some other area of their lives. In these early years, I am almost always able to have intimate knowledge of the people into whose care I place my children. As they grow older and go into situations in which I have less opportunity to know the adults in their orbit, I want them to have their own strong sense of what is appropriate and what isn't. Male caregivers help them develop that sense.

I can understand that parents with their own abuse histories by boys or men might very well decide they simply can't handle placing their own children in male care. But for those without any immediate knowledge of abuse, I don't think having heard a story or having had an acquaintance or having read something about a male caregiver abusing a child is a good reason to exclude male caregivers from their children's lives. To do so is to possibly deny your children a wonderful relationship with a beloved sitter. It's also to deny boys and men the opportunity to get hands-on experience caring for young children before they become fathers themselves. And isn't more hands-on fathering what so many moms wish for?

"Pro-Choice Women Shouldn't Cry Over Miscarriages"

Hannah Tennant-Moore — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 19:30:00 GMT

Just in case your day is going a little too smoothly, let me share an article that will make your blood boil—particularly if you are one of the numerous women who has suffered the pain of a miscarriage and also happens to believe in a woman’s right to choose.

A guest blogger named Gina over at Mom Logic has written a gem of offensive inanity called “Pro-Choice? Quit Crying Over Your Miscarriage!” Here’s how Gina characterizes the pro-choice women who “break down in hysterics” over a miscarriage: “It's a baby when they want it to be, it's a bundle of cells when they don't.”

This is such a shameless confusion of the issue that we need to put Gina’s thinking in perspective with an extreme—but real-life—example: do I believe that a 12-year-old rape victim should be forced to keep her baby? Absolutely not. Would I be heartbroken if I lost the baby I was carrying, whom I had carefully planned my life around for years? Absolutely. These are two entirely different issues. One has to do with my belief in the universal right to reproductive freedom, which is essential to ending the oppression of women; the other has to do with my personal feelings about motherhood.

Many women who would not choose to have an abortion themselves (except perhaps in extreme cases such as rape or incest) respect other women’s right to choose—as do many men, who will never face the decision of whether or not to have an abortion. That’s why it’s called pro-choice, not pro-abortion. By Gina’s line of thinking, no one who wants kids—male or female—should support a woman’s right to choose.

Gina also writes of pro-choice women who have the gall to want kids of their own: “Suddenly the monthly visitor that they were relieved to get when they were 20, now, at 32, plunges them into the depths of depression.” Well, Gina, this is a little something called “family planning”: making life choices that give both you and your future children the best chances for happiness and success—and therefore, bettering the world. How could anyone take issue with women who were responsible enough to avoid pregnancies when they were too young to care for a child? If it weren’t for unplanned pregnancies, there would be no need for abortion in the first place.

Gina claims that she “respects women’s right to choose.” If she truly is pro-choice—which, by her own definition, means believing that all babies are nothing more than “a conglomeration of microscopic cells” until they are out of the womb—then I sincerely hope she never gets pregnant. It’d be pretty difficult to avoid things like smoking and drinking if you have zero emotional attachment to your baby.

Photo: Flickr/Steve Rhodes

New Organization Helps Incest Survivors

Shannon LC Cate — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:31:00 GMT

Most parents are aware of the chilling statistics:

1 in 4 girls and 1 in 6 boys will report sexual abuse. More will not report it.

That's an epidemic, folks. We all do what we think is best to protect our children from this experience, many of us, while living with the aftermath of our own abuse histories.

There's one more resource out there now, to help on both of these fronts. VOICE Today offers resources to help those recovering from the experience of incest as well as advice for protecting children from it. It has a Christian slant, which may not be appropriate for everyone, but helpful for some.

I hope none of you need these resources, but if you do, or if you know anyone who does, it's good to know they are out there.

Australian Woman No Longer Dad's Girlfriend, Now She Lives With Him and New Fiance

JeanneSager — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:30:00 GMT

When I first read about Jenny Deaves and her father/lover earlier this year on Strollerderby, I had to take a long shower. When Madeline wrote about her, the Australian woman was living with her father and . . . no way to sugarcoat this . . . having sex with him. Willingly. "Lovingly."

Don't think it can get any worse? Just wait.

The Australian has reported Deaves has kicked dear old dad John to the curb, and she's engaged to another (not related - that we know of) man. Oh, but she and Shayne Farrell, a thirty-four-year-old bisexual father of three she met just ten weeks ago, are still living with John. Also in the house? Jenny and John's daughter, the youngest of her three children and the only produced by their incestuous relationship.

The Deaves reportedly split in July - not long after their story hit TV and they were banned by the courts from having sex with one another (who monitored that one, I wonder, and how? Don't tell me, I don't want to think about it). John became self-destructive. Or should we say MORE self-destructive? He started drinking and attempted suicide. Now he's seeking treatment, and Farrell says he doesn't have a problem jumping into his future father-in-law's bed. No problem living with his fiancee's former lover either.

Glad to hear Jenny Deaves has stopped shaking down the family tree for suitors. Or is she? I hate to be the bearer of weird tidings, but let's take a step back here. Court says no more sex with Dad, so she goes out and finds someone who likes having sex with women . . . and men. Then she brings him home. Anyone else wondering if three's company in the Deaves family? Wait a minute, don't tell me the answer to that one either.

Image: The Australian

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National Organization for Women President Endorses Palin

Hannah Tennant-Moore — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 16:10:00 GMT

Remember that video of Sarah Palin misquoting Madeline Albright at a rally in California? Well, the faux feminism gets more and more outrageous. Guess who introduced Palin? Shelly Mandell, the president of L.A. National Organization for Women, who has endorsed the McCain/Palin ticket.

I attended the March for Women’s Lives in Washington, D.C. back in 2004, which Mandell organized. It was one of the most unifying, uplifting experiences of my life, to be surrounded by thousands of women peacefully demanding reproductive freedom. The fact that Mandell would go on to endorse a staunchly anti-choice presidential ticket is not the only reason her judgment should be seriously questioned. Jezebel has done some digging on Mandell and it turns out that she’s got some skeletons in her closet, including helping to get a fellow NOW rising star arrested.

In her introduction for Palin, Mandell pointed out that Palin will be a champion for Title IX because she plays sports. I'm all for Title IX, but will having an athletic woman in office help other women when her running mate opposes equal pay, as McCain has already done? Will the fact that Palin played basketball in college help women when she fights to make abortion illegal even in the case of incest or rape?

If it were up to Mandell, the National Organization for Women would need to change its name to the National Organization for Powerful People with Female Genitalia. Fortunately, it’s not up to Mandell. The California NOW president has issued a statement that says, in part, “I can assure you that there is no local or state affiliate of NOW, including LA NOW, which endorses or supports the McCain/Palin ticket.”

Photo: Jezebel

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Austrian incest mom speaks out

Brett Singer — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 20:00:00 GMT

Remember Josef Fritzl, the human monster who locked his daughter in the cellar and got her pregnant multiple times? She's speaking to the press now, and while you know her story is a horrible one, the details are still chilling.

Elisabeth Fritzl, who was locked in an Austrian basement for almost 25 years and bore seven children by her father, says he raped her three times a week.

Josef Fritzl also regularly threatened to abandon her and three of her children in the cellar, leaving them to starve if they didn't follow his commands, Elisabeth said in her first public comments, The Times of London reported Wednesday.

This went on for 24 years. Other than mass genocide, I have to say that this might be the most horrendous story of all time. It's certainly in the top 10. Back when we first posted this story, commenter SussLW said, "Rather reminds me of some early V.C. Andrews novels, actually, which were also disturbing, but at least they were works of fiction." Indeed.

Source: UPI, via Madeline's excellent Morning News, which you should be reading if you aren't already

image: BBC

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They Say: Incest Is Best?

Adrienne Martini — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 18:30:00 GMT

If you want to increase your chances of having a healthy baby, you might want to look at some of the branches of your own family tree. No, really.

It turns out that third and fourth cousins tend to have lots and lots of babies when they hook up. Procreating with anyone closer than a second cousin is still a bad idea, according to this research out of Iceland.

For those of us who wouldn't be able to pick a third cousin out of a line-up, the idea that having sex with one doesn't exactly feel like it would be incestuous. Still, it's good information to have, I guess. Maybe this tidbit of info has more impact in Iceland, where you have to find something to do indoors all winter.

photo: scientific american

11-Year-Old Romanian Permitted to Have an Abortion

Hannah Tennant-Moore — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:39:00 GMT

Romania has ruled that a young rape and incest victim may be allowed to have an abortion. The shocking news is that this was a very controversial ruling.

"I want to go to school and to play. If I can't do this my life will be a nightmare,'" the 11-year-old wrote in a letter to the government committee deciding her fate. Already, the girl had been shunned by her former friends because of her pregnancy.

Romanian law prohibits abortions after 14 weeks, unless the mother’s life is in jeopardy, and the preteen girl was 21 weeks pregnant. An earlier abortion was not possible since no one, presumably not even the girl herself, knew she was pregnant. Her parents took her to a doctor on June 2 because she seemed sick. There, she told doctors that she was raped by her 19-year-old uncle, whose current whereabouts are unknown.

The mainly orthodox country is divided over the ruling. Pro-life groups have rallied for the pregnant child to give birth, offering to care for the baby after it is born. But child rights organizations say the young victim should not be made to undergo further hardship. Even the Orthodox Church aired on the side of tolerance, arguing that although abortion is a crime, this is an extraordinary situation that can only be decided by the girl and her family.

Photo: Romanian girls on a holiday (pbase.com)

Monster dad's daughter is awakened from coma

Brett Singer — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:00:00 GMT

It's Friday the 13th, which seems like a good day for a story like this one.

Kerstin Fritzl, the incestuous daughter of Austrian lunatic Josef Fritzl, was awakened from an artificial coma this week. According to Reuters, "Doctors put her into an artificial coma after she suffered from cramping fits due to oxygen deficiency and kidney problems and was brought from the prison cellar to hospital by Fritzl."

The case is still being investigated by Austrian authorities, who are looking into charged Fritzl with "coercion, rape, incest and the death" of one of the children he fathered with his daughter Elisabeth. He has "admitted incarceration and incest"; I'm not sure how the Austrian legal system works, therefore I don't know if that admission is equal to an admission of guilt.

Now this is a tricky sentence: "Austrian media reported that Kerstin might have been reunited with her mother, her grandmother and her siblings who are all cared for at the hospital." What I think it means is that Kerstin was reunited with her mother, Elisabeth, who is also her sister. Her grandmother is also her great-grandmother… is that right? It's a little confusing.

If you've forgotten the details of this story consider yourself lucky, but if you want to refresh your memory, click here.

images: BBC

Satan upset at how he's been portrayed in the media

Brett Singer — Thu, 08 May 2008 22:00:00 GMT

Well, not Satan specifically. But kind of.

Josef Fritzl, or "Incest dad" as CNN calls him, told his lawyer that he is unhappy at the picture of him that has been painted by worldwide media outlets. Apparently Fritzl told his attorney, "I'm only being portrayed as a monster and not as someone who committed monstrous acts."

Oh! Because you might be a nice guy who just happens to have committed an insanely vile act. Repeatedly. For over 20 years. Sort of a "Hitler liked dogs and children" kind of thing. Okay.

Fritzl also says that he "must have been crazy," because he knew what he was doing was wrong. "I tried as best I could to care for my family in the cellar…When I went into the bunker, I brought my daughter flowers and my children books and stuffed animals," Fritzl said, adding he would watch adventure videos with the children while Elisabeth cooked their favorite meals. "And then we'd all sit at the kitchen table and eat together."

Considering that the kids only speak in grunts, that must have been some dinner table conversation. Then after dinner he would go upstairs and continue to keep them locked in the basement. But he's no monster.

It actually gets worse from there – he first locked up his daughter (the one he fathered seven children with) when she hit puberty and stopped "following orders," and even makes a vague attempt to blame his actions on an unhappy childhood.

It bears repeating that even Howard Stern said there was nothing funny about this story. (The best I could do was "somebody's not getting a Father's Day present," which isn't very good.) The more we find out about this thing, the more disgusting it gets.

image: BBC

Cellar Dad Update: Dungeon Kids Only Speak In Grunts and Gurgles

Cole Gamble — Fri, 02 May 2008 17:01:00 GMT

Brett originally brought you the story of Austrian Josef Fritzl, who fathered three children with his daughter and kept the whole lot of them locked in a cellar for 24 years. Now comes word what that kind of severe psychological damage can do to people.

The kids, 19, 18 and fives years of age were reportedly “wide-eyed and mouth opened” to see human faces other than their own for the first time in life. The kids believed the outside world was “heaven” after their mother told them “heaven is up there.” Kirsten, the 19-year-old girl, was found missing most of her teeth and now lies critically ill in a hospital.

Authorities say the boys, Felix and Stefan, were shocked by the sudden exposure to sunlight and spoke to each other in an invented language of grunts and gurgles.

"When they want to articulate what they say in order for us to understand them, they do make an effort - presumably out of politeness. But it does cost them a lot of energy, “said Inspector Leopold Etz. Words truly do fail. I hope this is not a story that gets forgotten for the next thing. I want to know how these kids, including Kirsten provided she survives, adjust to life in the real world. Can one ever real fully acclimate after such an experience?

Images: BBC

The face of evil: Cellar Dad revealed

Brett Singer — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:00:00 GMT

Austrian Police have released a photo of Josef Fritzl, who has now confessed to keeping his daughter, and the children he fathered with her, in the cellar of their home for 24 years.

I mean, ouch.

The BBC has a bunch of coverage on this story, reporting that DNA evidence backs up the charges, a timeline of the events of the case going back to 1984, and an analysis of the possible psychological effects the whole being-kept-in-the-basement thing can do to a person. One London pediatrician is quoted as say, "It is possible that if you eat a good diet, you won't necessarily need much sunlight." Oh, OK.

Here's a shot of the cellar, which has "a concealed network of windowless chambers."

This story is so horrible that Howard Stern actually said there was nothing funny about it. If he can't come up with a joke, I don't know who can.

Man kept his daughter in basement for 24 years

UPDATE: Dungeon Kids Only Speak In Grunts and Gurgles

images: BBC

Man kept his daughter in basement for 24 years and got her pregnant 6 times

Brett Singer — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 20:30:00 GMT

Just when you think you've heard it all, there's a story like this one.

An Austrian man kept his daughter in the basement of their home for 24 years. During that time, he had a sexual relationship with her that produced " at least six children." The situation was discovered when one of their daughters, now 19, was hospitalized. After a DNA test hospital officials discovered that the man who brought her to the hospital was not only her grandfather, but also her father.

The man, 73 years old, is being identified as "Josef F." The daughter, Elisabeth F., is now 42; she was 18 when her father dragged her into the basement. Apparently Josef's wife – Elisabeth's mother – was unaware of what was happening. Three of the children that Josef and Elisabeth had together lived with their mother in the cellar, the other three lived upstairs. Josef told his wife that Elisabeth, who had been legally "missing" since 1984, had left the children on their doorstep.

Neighbors are shocked. I'm a bit nauseous.

The video report points out that all of this is "alleged" rather than proven; police are investigating.

There are more details that are actually hard to read, much less summarize. Read it at CNN.com, but be warned: it's rough stuff.

The face of evil

image: CNN.com

Father/Daughter Lovers -- More to the Story

Madeline Holler — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 18:10:00 GMT

Turns out, there's more to yesterday's "father and daughter raise their biological daughter and make the rest of us squirm" story.

A recap: father leaves daughter and mother when daughter is only a year old. Father and daughter reunite after 30 years. They fall in love, despite their (1) shared DNA and (2) actual spouses. "We're normal!" they say. "We're consenting adults!" they argue.

Yet -- and here's the twist -- apparently, they both weren't adults when this started. Their reunion happened a little earlier than they story they tell, according to one person who watched it all from the sidelines.

The Dad/Grandpa's ex-wife says that Jenny Deaves came back into her father's life when she was 15 to attend his wedding to said spurned ex. In fact, Jenny stayed with them at four different times during that marriage, which, according to an Australia news station, "collapsed after the father-daughter duo took a trip together to Dubbo in 2000."

An Australian version of 60 Minutes interviewed the couple and you can watch that here (it's about 13 minutes long). What's interesting to note are the interviews of the two kids from her previous marriage. They're quite defensive of their mother and father/grandfather. The girl even says not to worry, she'll have normal relationships when she grows up. There are bonus interviews with a Scottish brother-sister lover duo. And also an incensed New York psychologist who reminds us that while it's yucky, incestuous relationships aren't as uncommon as we might think (hope?).

Father and Daughter Have Baby (/Grandchild/Sister/Aunt?)

Madeline Holler — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:40:00 GMT

I'm kind of sputtering here with this story. A 61-year-old Australian man and his 39-year-old daughter are raising their 9-month-old biological child. Um, ew?

The story goes something like this: When Jenny Deaves was 31, she reunited with her father, who had abandoned his family when Jenny was just a year old. When they met again for the first time as adults, instead of reliving old times, they (ghaah!) fell in love.

Each was married, but their new-found love kind of got in the way of those relationships. Annnnd, the clothes came off.

What about the baby? Well, she's actually the second child they conceived together. The first, a son, dies of a congenital disease within days of birth. The little girl, however, appears to be perfectly healthy.

Here's what the happy couple has to say about their unconventional -- and illegal! -- relationship.

She said that soon after reuniting with John she saw him as a man first and her father second.

"I was looking at him, sort of going, oh, he's not too bad," she said. "Like you might look at a man across the bar at a nightclub."

Mr Deaves 61, who lives with his daughter in the town of Mount Gambier, South Australia, admitted he "initially" thought having sex with her was wrong, but "emotions took over".

"I knew it was illegal, of course I knew, but you know, so what," he said.

She said sex with Papa was like sex with any other man (hardly a glowing endorsement, but maybe she's being modest). He on the other hand calls sex with his little pumpkin "absolutely fantastic!"

On a legal note, they are basically on parole for incest and have been ordered to not have sex. Apparently, that's being monitored by law enforcement, which, I don't know, that's just freaking bizarre too.

Photo: Daily Mail

News of Oprah's Teen Pregnancy Enriches Relative

Rachael Brownell (Redsy) — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 19:24:00 GMT

In the recent issue of "O Magazine," Oprah describes the betrayal she experienced when her half-sister sold the story of her teenage pregnancy and baby's stillbirth to the Enquirer. Patricia Lloyd apparently made $19,000 from the story, which understandably left Ms. Winfrey feeling hurt and upset.

Poor Oprah. As long as People Magazine and the Enquirer and the like have an audience for the juicy details of celebrity lives, relatives and friends and nannies and landscapers will have too much money to make selling stories and pictures to withstand the temptation to tell-all.

But take heart, Oprah. Your magazine is hot on the heels of People in circulation and sales. And no one can beat the AARP Magazine's circulation, no matter how many celebrity teen pregnancy stories they buy.