Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

Shannon LC Cate — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 15:36:24 GMT

I'm not sure why expressing an opinion on pirate play is leading people to assume I'm "controlling" my children's play to any greater extent than I am by not letting them watch Hanna Montana. Until they're in school and exposed to other kids' interests, it doesn't exactly require a heavy hand to say "I think I'll buy toy A and not toy B for my kids." My kids--in spite of owning a toy pirate ship--don't really know what pirates ARE. They've never learned it anywhere. I hardly lie awake nights worrying about their pirate exposure. I just buy them other things to play with and read. My kids are 4 and 2, for crying out loud. When they're 8 and 6 and develop an intense obsession with pirates, sure, we'll read Treasure Island. Until then, I get to decide what they learn about cannons and planks (ie: summary execution at sea). I really don't think I'm stifling their learning or their creativity when I call it a diving board.

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

Shannon — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 13:27:38 GMT

I guess I just would rather let my son's imagination go where it goes and then let that lead to learning, rather than trying to control how he plays to such an extent. Kids will do what they do, and I say let them. Maybe playing pirates will lead him to reading some classics of literature or playing with farm animals will lead him to want to learn more about biology, agriculture or gardening. Who knows?

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

BroknRechord — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 19:22:45 GMT

Honestly, the more I read about pirates, the more I understand their appeal... I feel a heck of a lot better about my kids playing pirates for their future than I do princesses and knights. Thematically, violence has always been a trigger for me, but at least pirates foster democracy, divergent thinking and creativity rather than loyalty and misplaced a sense of honor.

www.huffingtonpost.com/.../you-are-being-lied-to-abo_b_155147.html

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

Manjari — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 18:52:55 GMT

I love your comments, Lula. I agree with this one 100%.

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

Lula — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:32:10 GMT

I am no more down with teaching children a concept of God that includes Him/it drowning 99% of creation because of "sin" than I am with romanticizing piracy, so I'm ??? on the subject of Noah's Ark. In fact, there's tons of Bible stories that are pretty scary from a child's viewpoint, or offensive to my spiritual worldview (Jonah and the whale? Job and the boils? Lot's wife turning to salt? Not to mention the whole misogynist Eve & Apple thing). But then there's Greek and Roman mythology, with all the sex and violence and blah blah... we humans seem programmed to require morality tales and stories of questing and Good vs. Evil.

So in the end, I think children have some sort of developmental need to play-act such stories, violence and all. If we're going to keep up the tradition of telling various fairy tales and singing weird ditties like "Rock-a-Bye Baby", then I think the toy pirate ship can stay -- with some occasional input from adults re: why REAL piracy is not remotely groovy.

As for Halloween: It's not supposed to be about gore and chaos and violence, really. It's supposed to be about acknowledging the reality of death, and setting aside time to remember those who have passed and to pay respects to the Spirit World (if that's your belief). I'm not a huge fan of the modern gore factor myself, but I think Halloween as it's currently practiced in much of the US *can* serve a purpose similar to play-acting violence -- it gives kids a chance to play-act feelings of powerlessness against "monsters" and other manifestations of general angst. Plus you get to knock on your neighbors' doors and get candy. I'm fine with people of certain faiths objecting and/or not wanting to participate, but I do think the holiday serves a community purpose.

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

BettyWu — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 05:40:01 GMT

ChiLaura - The book I got the most out of was "Raising Cain: Protecting the Emotional Life of Boys" There is also a PBS documentary ("Raising Cain: Boys in Focus") that I know is available from Netflix.

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

Shannon LC Cate — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 02:31:31 GMT

hmm, Treespeed, I would actually say I err on the side of benign neglect. After all, I work from home, so most of the time the kids are doing who-knows-what in their room while I cook, clean and write in the kitchen. I just hear a lot of giggling and get called to come look at them when they've dressed themselves up like super heroes or something. But I do choose what books to buy them, what videos to let them watch and what toys are available to them.

And in a couple of years, I will probably start teaching them about feudalism, which seems an appropriate enough topic for 6-year olds to me. I think there is a lot of veiled privilege in the idea that certain histories are "just fun" for "kids." Not all fun, not for all kids.

Who knows, maybe in a couple of years, my kids will be playing "Underground Railroad" considering all the Harriet Tubman books they have. Not a far cry from super heroes, really.

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

Treespeed — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 00:03:32 GMT

Shannon, Why is that not surprising?

Do you seriously monitor your kids play themes to this extent?

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

Shannon LC Cate — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 22:23:20 GMT

Actually, Treespeed, knights and dragons bug me too. But I think my kids have plenty of fun playing in a zillion different imaginative ways.

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

Treespeed — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 22:16:53 GMT

Wow, it must be fun for the kids playing at some of these houses. If the kids want to play knights and dragons do you first give them a lesson on feudalism? And despite the veggie propoganda there are plenty of farms where you can find cute and cuddly farm animals that will eventually be eaten, they are not mutually exclusive ideas.

Just like I've taught my daughter that bees are cute and fuzzy, they can sting you, but we don't kill them because they're important. I think kids are quite a bit smarter than some folks give them credit for, it seems to be the parents that have trouble with complex realities.

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

Sheri — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 22:10:24 GMT

I'm one of those people who had a Noah's Ark theme room.

I kept on coming across Noah's ark themed pieces with rainbows and the phrase "God keeps His promises" and it spoke to me.

I know that it isn't cool to be a person of faith on Strollerderby. But I'm Catholic, and while I do question the Church's doctorine from time to time, I believe in God and believe in Jesus.

I have always wanted to be a mom, and was at the tender age of 21. When I finally did marry, we wanted more kids (like 6 of them) and found out we had issues. After a couple of years (8 exactly) of throwing around the idea of adoption, foster care or a combination of both, we found out dh's insurance covered infertility. This entire time, I had been collecting Noah's Ark stuff with the rainbows and the God keeps his promises on them.

When I finally got pregnant, I just did the room in that. I thought the room was cute. Animals and an ark.....not the whole world flooded thing.

As far as pirates go, my sons also have a pirate ship. They have seen Peter Pan and a couple of years ago, Nate was Peter Pan and Quinn was Captain Hook. Kids that age just are playing. They don't get the whole picture yet. Captain Feathersword is a Wiggles character and my kids love him too.

Maybe I'm not looking enough into this stuff. But really, do kids that age get it??

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

ChiLaura — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 20:31:20 GMT

I can't stand Halloween for this reason. It celebrates death, chaos, and really nasty creatures! Some of the displays in our neighborhood are so gruesome that I avoid them or walk past them really fast or distract the boys. I don't care how cute those baby costumes are; I can't get past the horrific nature of this so-called "holy-day." Ugh.

BettyWu, which resources did you find most helpful? I'm raising two boys, after having only a sister and only ever baby-sitting girls. I did play with neighborhood boys a lot growing up, but I'd definitely be interested in doing some reading of my own.

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

Dori E. — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:27:54 GMT

I'm with you Shannon. I've always been baffled by "pirates for kids". Not that I didn't let my kids play pirate (Cooper has a Playmobil pirate ship), but it has always bothered me. What bothered me most was that a lot of the toys and kid play (such as pirate themed birthday parties where kids dress up like pirates) play it off like the pirates are the good guys, or even heros of some kind. When Kestrel was younger she would ask a lot of questions and was confused about whether pirates wre "bad guys" or "good guys", or if they were even real. We always tried to explain to the kids that there are real pirates, and they are "bad guys", but Kestrel especially would get a lot of conflicting messages from others. Cooper, on the other hand, never seemed to question it.

Right now with Cooper we are dealing with the whole Anakin Skywalker as hero issue...but at least I am confident there are not any real sith lords, unlike pirates.

OK, I will admit I always loved Capt. Jack Sparrow, but I wouldn't want my daughter to.

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

BettyWu — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:03:05 GMT

I definitely used to be of the opinion that I didn't want to provide my son with any weapons or violent toys and, like many boys before him, he bit his sandwiches into the shape of guns and attacked the family with empty toilet paper rolls. So I did a little research and found some very persuasive and compelling work done on allowing (sorry to be sexist here) boys in particular the opportunity to work out their very natural and biologically rooted aggressive and violent behavior through play. In essence, giving them the opportunity to work out their impulses through play gives them a safe place to figure out what's going on. The statement that really stood out for me was the assertion that when we, as parents react overly negatively to their violent play we confuse the heck out of them. THEY know it's play and pretend...why don't we?

That said, I still have my lines in the sand. Much to his dismay, I will not let him play with army guys. Just makes me too uncomfortable to "play" war like that (see your pirate problem). I also won't let him have realistic looking guns - which may be ridiculous - but I want to make sure we're keeping this in the fantasy "blaster" arena.

It's as you say. Every family has to find their own comfort spot and live in it.

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

Lee — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:43:50 GMT

I would also think it is worth mentioning (I have no problem with it) that children are inundated with various fairy tales and the accompanying 'stuff'. If you are familiar with the original, unsanitized/Disneyfied versions they are quite dark and sometimes even gruesome. Think the Brother's Grimm.

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

Barbara — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:21:51 GMT

I think pirates are appealing the way cowboys and cowgirls are appealing - rebels, bucking the system and running wild are awfully attractive when grown ups are constantly telling you "no" and "don't touch." The myth of Jesse James and Robin Hood, too (both were law-breaking, both hurt and killed people) -- but in a child's play world, it's not about pillaging and worse.

And no, I am not associating rampaging killers to the bonds of matrimony :), but just like playing house has nothing to do with mortgages and infertility, I think this is about deep-seated role exploration.

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

Lee — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:14:07 GMT

I grew up with first hand knowledge of where my hamburgers, eggs, & bacon came from, (not a cellophane package at the market) but that didn't stop me from loving to chase piglets or let the calves suckle my fingers. I loved 'Charlotte's Web' and now read various farm themed books to my children. If anything the reality imparted by my parents has given me a lifelong respect for the origins of the food on my table.

As for the ubiquitous Noah's Ark themed nurseries -- the story is one of rightousness & faith. God's purpose in flooding the earth was to rid it of wickedness & sin. The ever present rainbow symbolizes God's covenant with humanity.

Maybe the finer details of Noah and the flood are a bit much for a toddler to understand, as are the specifics of crucifixion during Easter and the massacre of the innocents in Bethlehem during Christmas but the primary messages are important for families raising their children in the Christian faith.

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

Knitty — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 16:36:09 GMT

We don't need to introduce all the various horrors of the world to our children, especially at the pre-school level. The pirates that exist in the play of little ones have no resemblance to the terrorists currently stalking the seas, and I don't have a problem with that. It's part of imaginative play and if pirates capture their imagination, then let them play.

And Diera, that's a good point. I'm dreading the day I'm going to have to explain that the cute mooing cow currently resides on our dinner table.

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

Shannon LC Cate — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 16:36:06 GMT

Shannon (the other one), I actually think most people should think harder about what they encourage their kids to do and to pretend. Perhaps every single toy ever made is objectionable to someone. Good on someone. Each of us has to think about what does and doesn't jive with the values we want to pass onto our kids.

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

Shannon — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 16:23:36 GMT

As for the pirates, there is a long tradition of pirate adventure stories for kids (Treasure Island, Peter Pan), which is probably what leads to pirate toys. I don't see any more harm in it than playing cowboys or war. Once you start really thinking about what's behind play, then everything probably becomes off limits for one reason or another. I really don't like the toys marketed at girls that teach them how to clean house or cook, but a lot of kids really love the toy kitchen. Maybe just don't think so hard about it?

My mom forbid us to have play guns when I was a kid. So we played war by lobbing stuffed animal hand grenades at each other. And yes, I am a girl.

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

Shannon LC Cate — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 16:17:18 GMT

Yeah what's with the farm animal thing anyway? It's a fiction, for one thing. I'd like to see a board book about corporate agribusiness: "They cut off the chicken beaks and cram five into a 2-foot square crate, cluck! cluck! ouch! say the chickens..."

And I have always tried to teach my kids to be extra gentle with bugs because they are small and we are supposed to protect creatures smaller than ourselves. (Then when they're not looking I go "ick!" and toss them out the door. But I try not to pass my prejudices to them.)

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

leahsmom — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 16:03:38 GMT

I'm with diera - especially in that we teach kids that insects and bugs are "icky" or "scary" - when so much of the survival of our planet depends on these critters - and the microorganisms we're busy killing off with antibacterial soaps.

re: Pirates Are Not Appropriate for Kids (and Other Ranting)

diera — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:18:40 GMT

You know what I don't get? Why we go to so much trouble as a culture to make food animals seem cute and cuddly to kids. We teach them that the cow goes "moo" and the duck goes "quack" etc. before they can even speak, we have countless books about farm animals (we've probably got upwards of ten ourselves and I don't particularly seek them out), there are lots of toy cows and pigs and so on... but we EAT those animals. I'm not a vegetarian and am all about eating cows (tasty cows!) but doesn't it seem creepy to spend all this time encouraging kids to think cows are our friends and to equate them with horses and dogs and only THEN break the news that while horses and dogs are to some extent considered part of the family, cows are just dinner?

But I'm OK with pirate play. Go figure.