feedback for "Wanted: Baby Daddy"

  1. Nice story. I'm always fond of people finding ways to make this work outside the traditional realm. Good luck!

    posted by : Marie-Eve Laforte on 3/18/2009 at 11:47 AM Flag For Abuse

  2. I have a sister that did this but not in an honest way - she told the guy she was on the pill, but the pill was folic acid.  I appreciate that the author was up front and honest, but I lost a lot of respect for my sister and the fallout of her deception is still being tallied.  The most devastating being the sweet little boy who wants to know why his daddy doesn't want anything to do with him.  The lifetime of pain this little boy has to endure is definitely not worth a woman satisfying her baby-itch for.

    posted by : childrendeserve2parents on 3/18/2009 at 1:28 PM Flag For Abuse

  3. whoa...somebody found a soapbox. childrendeserve2parents, I appreciate that your sister did this in the worst way possible, but this article is not remotely the same situation.  I myself am a single mother to be (due in 3 weeks) and I am in contact with my baby's father, though he is not a part of my life, nor will he likely be a part of my baby's, and that is his choice.  Just because a child doesn't have a father figure present, does not in the least mean that they will be wanting for male role models, or the outpouring of love that any good family provides.

    I know a two parent household is a blessing, but as one of the millions of children of divorced parents, I can tell you that a great deal of us grew up just fine with one parent, and a great many more were deeply effected by angry unhappy parents who refused to get a divorce on the grounds that it was "what was best for the kids".  I would much rather raise my child alone then rush into a relationship in order to secure a "baby daddy" that I could spend the rest of my miserable life with.

    posted by : pregnantpeanut on 3/18/2009 at 5:54 PM Flag For Abuse

  4. There is nothing more heartbreaking for a child than to grow up without both parents.  Sorry but it is true.  Ask anyone, including myself, what it is like not to have a dad.  It is like a giant hole in your heart that is never filled.  You watch other kids play with their dad and your heart longs for that.  Did you grow up without one of your parents?  How can you make such a decision for someone if you have no experience in that area yourself.   If you really want a child so much adopt a child who needs a parent.  Then they will have at least one instead of none.  Depriving a child of a parent because you "want to be pregnant" is the most selfish of things to do to an innocent child. You are only thinking of yourself, not the child.  There are thousands of children right here in the US wishing and hoping for a mom.  I guess they weren't good enough to fit your fantasy of single motherhood.   Perhaps you thought they were the wrong color or not cute enough.  You can adopt for less than a thousand dollars in the US.  so money is no excuse.  I can guarantee that raising a child without a father will come back to bite you on the ass someday and the person who will suffer the most is your child.  Some things are not just tradition but necessary.

    posted by : Ali on 3/18/2009 at 6:56 PM Flag For Abuse

  5. Am I the only person who would find this WAY less disturbing if the author and her chosen "baby daddy" had just used a turkey baster or something? As it is, it seems to occupy a strangely sad, skin-crawly middle ground between a relationship and stallion service. If the author is genuinely as okay with it as she claims, her emotional/psychological wiring must be very different from that of most women (heck, most people) in our culture, and for that reason I question her ability to single-handedly parent a child past the baby stage.

    posted by : brazen on 3/18/2009 at 9:39 PM Flag For Abuse

  6. Ali, you say you can adopt for under $1000, but most people I know have had to spend way more than that, even for older kids. Could you explain more? I'm not trying to be snarky, but I think this would be great information to have for those who want to adopt but do not have the tens of thousands of dollars to do so.

    posted by : Laure68 on 3/18/2009 at 10:22 PM Flag For Abuse

  7. Nan, you've probably already had to deal with a lot of judgmental finger-shaking like that in a couple of comments above (I swear, people like Ali are just looking for a fire hydrant against which to pee, and your essay appears to be the nearest one to her today). I hope it doesn't affect you; no doubt you've already developed a thick skin against such nonsense. You're clearly a thoughtful and loving parent...and you and your kid will do just fine on your own. Thanks for your honest essay.

    posted by : back off torquemada on 3/18/2009 at 10:51 PM Flag For Abuse

  8. I grew up without a dad, so did many of my friends.  For me and most of us, it really wasn't a big deal.  Some people that I know had negative experiences being raised by a single parent, but some that I know had similarly negative experiences being raised by two parents.  Really, I think it depends on the parents.  
    I do think kinds need close relationships with more than one adult (and I imagine having close relationships with adults of both genders probably helps a lot too,)  but there's more than one way to make that happen.
    Seriously, I was raised by a single parent and it was okay.  The only thing that bothered me when I was a kid was all the negative media attention focused on families like mine: telling me that my home was "broken," that my mom was "selfish" and "irresponsible," and that I was going to grow up to be somehow damaged.   Well, my home wasn't broken, my mom did a damn fine job, and I turned out just fine.  

    posted by : Jessica Brown on 3/19/2009 at 2:53 AM Flag For Abuse

  9. I am not up on anything, I am just saying that we experienced something similar in my family and it has not played out as rosy as the author's situation.  My heart breaks every time my nephew pushes his cousins out of the way to get to their daddy.  And the way he gloms on to any new date my sister has and calls them Daddy before he has even met them.  I am sure it is different for everyone, but I personally think that little boys in particular need their daddy's to be a big part of their lives.  We have lots of male role models in our family, but none are his daddy, and he knows it.  The research is pretty clear that boys in single mother families suffer particularly in a number of ways - poor impulse control being one.  I am the mother of 2 boys who have a fantastic, involved father and I can clearly see the benefits - mothers and fathers parent differently, for one thing.  Fathers encourage their children to take more risks.  Mothers tend to be the soft place to fall.  It kind of rounds everything out. 

    I am just writing from my experiences in a similar situation, and I am being respectful to other points of reference.  I read something recently talking about how, as adults responding on these sites, if we cannot be civil and respectful, how can we teach children to behave that way and prevent cyber-bullying?

    posted by : childrendeserve2parents on 3/19/2009 at 7:02 AM Flag For Abuse

  10. Interesting contrast between the two posts above ... it strikes me that one extraordinary parent supported by a loving community is better than two mediocre parents with less community. I also think, playing devil's advocate for a minute, that the perfect childhood is a great recipe for content unexceptional lives. And of course there is nothing wrong with content, unexceptional lives. But imperfect childhoods often produce people who are highly motivated to succeed. Top cyclists, for instance, are often people who survived a painful childhood illness and /or have a bad relationship with their fathers; many of the very best cyclists (think Lance Armstrong) had both.

    I don't say this to endorse single parenthood -- I think pretty much every last single parent would have a loving spouse if they could find the right one (I can't imagine how difficult it would be to raise a child alone, if without people judging you for it!). Clearly two parents is preferable if it's an option. And needless to say, we will all do everything in our power to make our children feel loved and safe and empowered. But I do think that human are very very complex, and we are wired to be somewhat discontent for a reason -- because discontent heightens the likelihood of survival (think intel founder Andy Grove's book "Only the Paranoid Survive) and breeds achievement.

    If we removed all the people with imperfect childhoods from the world, it would be a much less interesting place (and we would probably still be dancing around in animal skins).

    posted by : anotherperspective on 3/19/2009 at 9:58 AM Flag For Abuse

  11. I grew up without a father - and never missed him. My sister felt denied a father, but when you asked her, she really missed the fantasy of what a dad is, the classic TV dad - all wisdom and walks down the aisle, not really a whole human being. As for the research saying that children of single moms have poor impulse control....single moms have been maligned since the beginning of time and much of the research has been done to confirm societal beliefs (think all the research pointing to gays as pedophiles and poorly socialized misfits and criminals to further the cause of a society that believed it...now we know it's simply not true). I recently read a great book by Dr Peggy Drexler (based on her dissertation research) called "Raising boys without men. How maverick moms are creating the next generation of exceptional men." She reviews all of the negative stereotypes about single moms and lesbian moms. Then she talks about the results of her research which suggest that boys of lesbian and single moms generally grow up well adjusted and in fact have a greater variety of quality male role models than boys in an opposite-sex two parent household because their moms work hard to provide them; whereas in the household with mom and dad, no-one makes any effort to provide any male role model besides the one who lives in the house.

    And for Ali...only 23% of US households now have the traditional mom-and-pop...so this configuration actually isn't necessary and is just tradition (and, like all those other great traditions - women barefoot and pregnant; women who only cook and clean; men who don't cry; girls playing with dolls; boys playing with cars; etc, etc, etc, are historical markers through cultural evolution). Also, adoption is one way to grow a family, biological parenthood is another. Accusing the author of the article of racism and selfishness because she had sex and had a child....illogical.

    posted by : Adopterwithnodadinthehouse on 3/19/2009 at 12:46 PM Flag For Abuse

  12. Having one good, loving parent beats the hell out of having two angry parents sticking together "for the kids." There are a million different ways to raise a happy child. Why does everyone need to claim theirs is the best?  And it sounds like the author has made the best of a less than optimal situation. I wish her and her nontraditional family the best.

    I am also amused by the poster above who said that this author is selfish for not giving her child two parents and should adopt instead - so, wait, a child she gives birth to deserves two parents, but those kids who need to be adopted are defective anyway, so they don't? Perhaps you should think these arguments through before presenting them.

    posted by : Bunny 2 on 3/19/2009 at 12:59 PM Flag For Abuse

  13. I know that it doesn't apply to this article so much, but what really protects a "baby daddy" in a situation like this from being financially responsible down the road if things change, unlike a sperm donor? I know that everyone always says that this situation is different, but even the author ends her article with her little family dream. What if the Dad suddenly does well for himself, but then starts up his own family? People can be jealous and vindictive over the issues of money and children, look at most divorce/custody proceedings, and I don't see why single parents should be immune to these shortcomings. It just doesn't seem in this situation that the Father could ever really protect himself from a support obligation down the road, no matter what the original agreement had been.

    posted by : Marcus Brown on 3/19/2009 at 1:52 PM Flag For Abuse

  14. Oh, Ali, sadly there are many, many things more heartbreaking than to be raised by a single, loving parent.

    Nan, thanks for being so forthcoming and sharing your story.  Sounds like Leo has a great mom.

    posted by : WillaWorld on 3/19/2009 at 2:22 PM Flag For Abuse

  15. The one thing that has bothered me about this article is the part where neither participant has financial resources and the mother verbally assures the father that she will not seek financial assistance to raise the child, and both enter into this thinking... what, exactly??  Does anyone else think, as I do, that the father has obligations to this child that preclude his verbal agreement with the mother?  Or that there is something amiss in a society where someone has some holes in there life, where things just aren't working out well, so , hey, I've always wanted children, so let's fill THAT hole, because I can.  Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.  I think both parties are now beholden to that child financially, emotionally, psychologically and physically.  And enough with the 2 parent families = angry & hostile, and single parent families = amazing, loving super heroes.  We are all flawed in our own unique way.  I just think the rights of the child get forgotten in the pursuit of motherhood at whatever cost.

    posted by : child advocate on 3/19/2009 at 2:40 PM Flag For Abuse

  16. Perhaps if people made more sound choices, like being part of a dual-parent partnership in which one adult did not have to bear all the financial and child-care responsibilities on his or her own, they would not face the problem of "(Not) Keeping Up With Our Parents: The Decline of the Professional Middle Class,"

    She's free to make whatever wacky choices she wants to, but don't complain about your struggles when you choose to take the hard road! I can't believe the author is considering a second kid...

    To her: I wish you guys the best, but I think you're nuts.

    posted by : mamaste on 3/19/2009 at 4:41 PM Flag For Abuse

  17. I am fortunate enough to be in a mothers group with Nan, and have known her since our sons were a month old.
    She is an incredible mother.
    No one has the right to judge her unless they have sat there with their clocks ticking and wondered what was next. No one can understand what it's like to be a single woman in New York City unless they have been. It's pure hell. Men there do not want to settle down, and dammit, she wanted a child. She did what she needed to do.
    Seeing her and Leo, it just feels right. He is soooo adorable, and so happy. He's 15 months old now, and Ali, he's past baby and is a certifiable toddler, and is doing great.
    Everyone, please don't judge her unless you know her.

    posted by : sk2 on 3/20/2009 at 12:24 AM Flag For Abuse

  18. Then maybe she shouldn't post her story on a public website.  Oh, wait, she needs the money, right??  I thought the writers for this site are putting their stories into the public domain because they are trying to provoke debate with users of this site so they can show advertisers how much traffic they get.  And, of course, to get paid.  And to justify calling themselves writers.

    posted by : reading between the lines on 3/20/2009 at 9:44 AM Flag For Abuse

  19. The argument for bringing a child into the world despite being broke and fed up with dating just does not wash with me.  Think about it:  if we all just went ahead and got whatever we wanted without doing the hard work to attain it then we would basically be in a financial meltdown that would reverberate around the world, oh, wait a minute, we are.  It all comes back to "but I WANT it!!" ergo I can have it.  Sure, if that's how you operate in the world, everyone else be damned.  Sorry, still does not wash with me...

    posted by : number cruncher on 3/20/2009 at 9:50 AM Flag For Abuse

  20. What a bunch of judgmental prigs! God... listen to yourselves! I think this woman sounds like she hit the nail right on the head and you're all criticizing her. Shame on you.

    I think she went about this the right way. There is no reason a woman should give up her dream of being a mother just because men are becoming less and less datable. And they ARE. They are staying younger longer and growing up slower. No 30 year old woman wants to wait around for some 35 year old Peter Pan to "learn to commit." Do you realize how much time women waste trying to nail down the "right guy?" It's obnoxious. Frankly, I applaud her approach to child-raising. I'd rather do it alone than strapped to some indifferent man for the rest of my life. Single mothers can be great. I was raised by an amazing one and I never wanted a dad. Ever. You don't yearn for something you never had. I think if a parent can raise, from birth, a child on their own, it's easier than wrenching them from a father years later after you learn he's a loser. Single moms can dedicate themselves fully to their children without having to deal with a 40 year old child as well. Sometimes the whole cliched love-marriage-family thing just DOESN'T happen for really terrific women who don't want to compromise on their priorities and independence. Trust me. If you can find a way to have a baby without putting yourself through the hell that is dating and marriage and then risking being single and alone and babyless anyway, then God bless you! I think more women should do than be subjected to traditional standards that may not be what they want. To each her own, and if her son is well cared for, happy, and healthy, then what are you complaining about? Both parents knew what they were getting into, and they went about it responsibly. The End! Everyone needs to get off their sanctimonious soapboxes and accept the fact that single parents deserve respect like any couple, if not more.

    Congrats to you and your baby!

    posted by : heather00 on 3/20/2009 at 1:01 PM Flag For Abuse

  21. Number Cruncher: I don't think finding a man to support you qualifies as "doing the hard work to attain" what we want, but that seems to be what commenters here wish the author had done. The author works to support herself and her child. It's absurd to claim that finding someone else to do the earning is somehow harder work. Also doubly absurd to blame hardworking single moms for the financial meltdown. You have heard of the banking crisis, right? look it up.

    Also, having children is a biological need, not a "want."

    posted by : Bunny 2 on 3/20/2009 at 1:05 PM Flag For Abuse

  22. Thank you for this lovely essay. I am so happy for you, and hope you continue to write about the choices you make in such a thoughtful way. I look forward to your next essay.

    posted by : momcat on 3/20/2009 at 1:47 PM Flag For Abuse

  23. oh, Bunny 2, please learn to read.  I was writing metaphorically, as in the current financial crisis is, in part, due to large numbers of people buying things on credit that they cannot afford to pay for.  Currently, we have a society where people seem to think they are entitled to a standard of living they have not attained.  It is often referred to as a sense of entitlement.  I was comparing that sense of entitlement to the situation where a woman wants a baby but has not found a suitable partner to embark on that journey with, so decides to do it on her own.  I just happen to be one of those folks who think that the child is short changed in this pursuit and that our society of entitlement and empowerment has swung too far.  That's my opinion.  The author put herself out there by publicly telling her story, and when you do that, you have to be prepared for people to say "I don't agree with your logic or with your moral reasoning" or whatever aspect of the story that may offend some people.  That's what this site is supposed to be about.  So for those of you who think people who don't agree with your thinking are simply judgmental, maybe you should join a debating club and learn finer aspects of discussing different points of view without resorting to name calling.  Also, I think it is particularly revealing to assume that women wanting to find an appropriate partner to raise a family with means that they want someone else to earn the income.  I actually think that most women are looking for a life partner to raise a family with - note the difference between have a baby and raise a family - it's a shift from the experience of pregnancy and delivering a baby into the world to the process of rearing children.  And I emphasize the word partner - 2 people who work together.

    posted by : number cruncher on 3/20/2009 at 2:18 PM Flag For Abuse

  24. Number Cruncher uses specious reasoning. Yeah we all have opinions. But we can still tell you that you're not making a rational or even sound judgment at all. It's moralistic and offensive and you have yet to state the inherent superiority of raising a child with a man versus alone.

    This was the case 50 years ago. It's still the case with religionists. People cling to tradition like life preservers. It's sad. These instutitions don't make sense for everyone. You don't NEED a husband. Your child doesn't NEED a father. Your child needs food, clothing, shelter, support, and love. If you can afford to give your child a good life, why would you WANT extra baggage? Plenty of women make excellent livings, enough to raise a baby. But it's not a prerequisite to have children. Broke people have kids by themselves all the time and do fine.

    So don't write it off as name-calling. You're failing to make a cogent argument yourself. You're confining women into this role of wife/mother as if they have to be both. They don't. You can be a mother and raise a happy, healthy baby.

    I wish more women would just go it alone. Maybe it'd pull these men in a state of arrested development away from their video games long enough to even BOTHER committing to a family. You're blaming women, and it's not women who are isolated in this. Men have alienated women. If you don't believe me, ask any single female between the ages of 28-35. I don't blame anyone for wanting to raise a child without some slouchy sloth interfering everyday.

    posted by : heather00 on 3/20/2009 at 3:12 PM Flag For Abuse

  25. Actually, children do need a father - even the sperm bank needs to get it's donations from someone with a penis.  Have you not read the articles about the now grown sperm donor generation that is desperately searching for their fathers??  The lengths that they are going to find the person that ejaculated into a cup for $15 so that they could be brought into this world??  And I do believe the terminology that I used was "partner" - I have not specified that this be a man/wife situation or that the two involved are actually co-habitating.  I am merely stating that I truly believe that children need to have 2 involved parents.  And when did I blame women??  Blame them about what??  I simply believe that the reasoning that SOME women use to justify having a child on their own is faulty.  I think that if we read this from a 17 year old high school dropout, that she was broke, single, and had always wanted a baby and approached a friend's ex who was open to the idea, we would all have different reactions.  It's interesting that you regard 2 parent families as being "traditionalist thinking".  I guess you could call survival of the species "traditionalist thinking".  Again, as far as I know, we still need a sperm and an egg - until the cloning gets stabilized...  I keep trying to bring this discussion back to the rights of the child to know where they come from - and not just from pictures.  I believe real men take responsibility for their children - not just financially, but in all aspects.  If we have all of these wonderfully empowered women taking charge of their fertility and raising the next generation sans men, who is going to teach all of our boys how to be fathers?  How to be responsible for their progeny?  And just for the record, I am not a wife, but I am a mother.  And my sons have a very very involved positive role model in their father.

    posted by : number cruncher on 3/20/2009 at 4:47 PM Flag For Abuse

  26. Wow, you hear about man-hating feminists in theory, but it's rare you get someone being so public with their misandry. I sure hope you aren't raising any sons, or even have access to any nephews, you need to get into some therapy soon. As a father I find your remarks insulting and incredibly ignorant. There a couple of single mothers at my daughter's school, one who adopted and the other that went with a donor. They are both awesome mothers and I have no problem with their choices, but you should see the way these two kids gravitate towards all of the fathers at the group events. Of course single Moms can do a rocking great job raising a kid, but the idea that there is nothing to be gained by a male influence is just as untenable.
    Also, no one has said commented on the fact that in this particular situation there is no way to absolve the father of future financial obligation if things go bad.

    posted by : Marcus Brown on 3/20/2009 at 5:18 PM Flag For Abuse

  27. Wow, people really know how to feel superior. Those of you criticizing the author, the same could be said about almost anyone who has a child. Nobody is in the absolute perfect situation. "That person is too poor, too dedicated to work, too old, too young, etc etc." For those of you who say she should adopt, have you done this? Trying to get pregnant herself would be so much easier. Everything I have heard is that there are potential parents lined up to adopt kids.
    @Marcus Brown, I think nobody has answered your question about financial obligation because nobody really knows. I would assume getting a lawyer and drawing up a contract would provide some protection, but since I haven't been in the situation, I can't really know. 
    Also, I don't think that person is being a "man-hating feminist" as you say. She is just talking about the absolute needs of a child. In the same tone, a child does not absolutely need a mother. Our neighbors are 2 men raising an adopted child, and that child seems to be quite happy and stable. They do make an effort for the child's aunts to be there, to get a female influence. 
    It really seems like you are looking for something that is not there.

    posted by : Laure68 on 3/20/2009 at 8:51 PM Flag For Abuse

  28. > Actually, children do need a father - even the sperm bank needs to get > it's donations from someone with a penis.  Have you not read the articles > about the now grown sperm donor generation that is desperately searching > for their fathers??  The lengths that they are going to find the person that > ejaculated into a cup for $15 so that they could be brought into this world??  
    First of all, let's be realists and accept, flat out, that there's a distinction between fathering a child and being a father to a child. Any fifth-grader knows that. Sperm donors do not qualify, under law, as legal guardians or custodians of the children they father. They're a biological necessity for men - DUH. As for the children being produced, their search for their mothers' sperm donors is independent of their alleged need for a father. Seeking out one's "missing half" is an innate reaction that any child would feel, regardless of the circumstances under which they were born. Their need to fill in the blank does not translate into wanting, or even needing, another full-time parent because GUESS WHAT - they already have one. 
    Secondly, donors receive considerably more than $15 per shot. The donor evaluation process is actually quite extensive and rigorous and qualified donors are compensated very well.  
    > It's interesting that you regard 2 parent families as being "traditionalist thinking".  > I guess you could call survival of the species "traditionalist thinking".  
    Our survival is only dependent on successfully procreating healthy babies and subsequently raising decent human beings. Where is it written that husband+wife is the only means by which to achieve this? Like most archaic traditions that we cling to with such desperation and sentimentality, which we evolve past eventually, social and technological equalizers will allow women to provide for their children as much, if not better, than a dysfunctional marriage would. Women today are given so many more options with regard to their status in the workforce and at home. I'm not saying that men are expendable, but I am saying that if they're not an option for you, then you shouldn't be punished for still wanting a child. At that point, it isn't about marriage anymore - it's about family, and there is more than one kind of family. 
    Granted, the nuclear family has been one of the many building blocks of our civilization, but it's not a constant throughout history and hasn't been for other civilizations. It was an equation we assumed would produce the best possible outcome for economic reasons: a helpless, dependent woman needed a man to support her and a man needed a woman to bear his children. That was the equation for most of history, but circumstances have changed a lot. Just because a person doesn't want to be married, which is an optional institution required to procreate, doesn't immediately disqualify someone from having a baby! People have to stop thinking of marriage as a prerequisite to having children, even if you think it's ideal. It's unfair and judgmental to compel people into lifestyles with which they are not comfortable. You are wagging your self-righteous finger at a woman who is happy, whose child is happy, and whose goals have been attained, from a glass house. People who criticize single mothers need to take a closer look at their own lives, their broken and dysfunctional marriages, their adherence to tradition for tradition's sake, and analyze who it's really benefitting. It's often people with seemingly squeaky clean lives who have the most problems, and yet they're the ones projecting their own failures and inadequacies onto people who just didn't follow the same path, as if it takes something away from their incalculable "sacrifices." I guess misery really does love company then. Just because you think a specific arrangement is better on an aggregate level, you have to allow for outliers. Cases like this are exemplary in this way. It demonstrates that we don't all have to do the same exact thing
    > If we have all of these wonderfully empowered women taking charge > of their fertility and raising the next generation sans men, who is going to > teach all of our boys how to be fathers?  How to be responsible for their > progeny?
    Your arguments are sexist and they marginalize women. Only a man can teach a boy how to be a man? What happened to just raising good people? Women are more than capable of teaching their sons to be responsible, respectful, and successful. Your slight on women seems to argue that women alone are incapable of instilling values in their children, which is also quite insulting. Having strong male role models is one thing, but having any strong role model in general is better than having none at all. Try rephrasing your statement. It's important that we raise good people and, last time I checked, women were capable of doing so. 
    Single mothers confront daunting challenges everyday because they have to essentially be both mother and father; they have to wash and dry, they have to reward and punish, they have to comfort and teach, they have to pay attention 100% of the time, they have to forgive and forbid, they have to be sensitive and stoic, they have to embody the qualities that both parents would bring to the child. I think it's admirable when a single person, man or woman, can do all of this for their chid. Children are not solely influenced by their parents, either. Children can be surrounded by a network of friends and family that raise them. Happiness and well-being is not predicated upon a single standard, a standard that you are preaching as if it's the only solution to an epidemic of sorts. There's room in this world for all kinds of families, all with the same unassailable objective: raise a happy, healthy, well-adjusted person. Men and women, in the end, learn the same lessons about life. They don't have to be steered down neither a qualitatively female path, nor a qualitatively male path. Rather, what we should be focused on is raising our children well. How we do that is not your call to make.
    To say that only a man can teach a boy how to be a man means that you believe that only a woman could teach a girl how to be a woman. So by your logic, daughters don't need fathers, and thus your argument falls apart. I get what you're trying to say, you're just saying it poorly. I agree with you that children need role models, but we ought not confine them to mother/father. Where is it written that a child only learns through the behavior of their parents and the structure of their family? If every child mimicked the behavior of their parents or replicated their parents' structure, we'd never change. Your arguments call into question the author's ability to provide her child with a good life because she has not given him a father, but it's not your place to cast aspersions on her attempts at being an excellent mother. I think that people who argue exactly what you are endorsing are socially negligent and dismissive. After reading all of these comments, it's clear to me that you've lost this argument and now you're holding on to your flimsy premise despite the fact that you've been bested. Your defensiveness is transparent, and your reactionary behavior has definitely provoked the contrarians, and once someone appears to take this issue to personally, to me, indicates that you lack the confidence in the validity of your own argument - and you should - because it's a broken one.
    I think it's wonderful that your child has a father who stays in life, but at least give credit to people who fundamentally want the same thing as you - to raise a good person - but don't follow your rules. Again, it's just not your place to malign her for her means even though your ends are the same.
    For what it's worth, I hope the author's irreducible and immeasurable love for her son can give her the confidence to raise him to have a deeply rooted sense of pride, respect, and admiration in his mother, which will be a foundation for him, with or without a father. Some children don't even get that.
    To the men and the fathers: I applaud those of you who are involved in your children's lives. This goes for husbands and single fathers alike. It's no easier being a father than it is being a mother. That is not my argument, and I am not saying that you are irrelevant or expendable. You have just as much a right to love and nurture your children. The author does not deny the father access to his son. They came to a mutual agreement long before we even had this discussion, and their arrangement remains between them and their son. Her course of action is not militantly feminist at all. That just doesn't make sense. She could have just as easily conned some poor sap into impregnating her, and then taken him to the cleaners for child support, and denied him access to his son. She did not. Rather, she was honest with him, and they agreed with open eyes and clear heads how this child would be born and raised. So maybe they colored outside the lines a little in your opinion, but so what?! At least they did it in a way that based on honesty and a commitment to the same purpose. Making child-rearing so mechanistic by predetermining the structure of their family is extremely narrow-minded and self-righteous. For once, just try to imagine that someone can do it differently, if not better, than you, and stop fighting to fit people into these neat little categories and equations. There is no prescription or manual that instructs you on the singular way to start a family, and you cannot capitalize on your morality and sanctimony. You alone do not possess the answers about how we should all raise our children. Rather than just congratulate her and wish her and her son all the best, you chime in with your superiority and arrogance, as if it's somehow constructive. The problem with all of the holier-than-thou social commentators is that they claim to posses an infallible certitude in their personal choices with which everyone else should agree. If that's not arrogance then I don't know what is. At least have the courtesy and the humility to appreciate that it's possible to love a child and raise a good person on your own. 

    posted by : treber on 3/21/2009 at 11:42 AM Flag For Abuse

  29. I am going to try to do this a little neater...


    Actually, children do need a father - even the sperm bank needs to get it's donations from someone with a penis.  Have you not read the articles  about the now grown sperm donor generation that is desperately searching for their fathers??  The lengths that they are going to find the person that ejaculated into a cup for $15 so that they could be brought into this world?  

    First of all, let's be realists and accept, flat out, that there's a distinction between fathering a child and being a father to a child. Any fifth-grader knows that. Sperm donors do not qualify, under law, as legal guardians or custodians of the children they father. They're a biological necessity for men - DUH. As for the children being produced, their search for their mothers' sperm donors is independent of their alleged need for a father. Seeking out one's "missing half" is an innate reaction that any child would feel, regardless of the circumstances under which they were born. Their need to fill in the blank does not translate into wanting, or even needing, another full-time parent because GUESS WHAT - they already have one. 

    Secondly, donors receive considerably more than $15 per shot. The donor evaluation process is actually quite extensive and rigorous and qualified donors are compensated very well.  

    It's interesting that you regard 2 parent families as being "traditionalist thinking". I guess you could call survival of the species "traditionalist thinking".  

    Our survival is only dependent on successfully procreating healthy babies and subsequently raising decent human beings. Where is it written that husband+wife is the only means by which to achieve this? Like most archaic traditions that we cling to with such desperation and sentimentality, which we evolve past eventually, social and technological equalizers will allow women to provide for their children as much, if not better, than a dysfunctional marriage would. Women today are given so many more options with regard to their status in the workforce and at home. I'm not saying that men are expendable, but I am saying that if they're not an option for you, then you shouldn't be punished for still wanting a child. At that point, it isn't about marriage anymore - it's about family, and there is more than one kind of family. 

    Granted, the nuclear family has been one of the many building blocks of our civilization, but it's not a constant throughout history and hasn't been for other civilizations. It was an equation we assumed would produce the best possible outcome for economic reasons: a helpless, dependent woman needed a man to support her and a man needed a woman to bear his children. That was the equation for most of history, but circumstances have changed a lot. Just because a person doesn't want to be married, which is an optional institution required to procreate, doesn't immediately disqualify someone from having a baby! People have to stop thinking of marriage as a prerequisite to having children, even if you think it's ideal. It's unfair and judgmental to compel people into lifestyles with which they are not comfortable. You are wagging your self-righteous finger at a woman who is happy, whose child is happy, and whose goals have been attained, from a glass house. People who criticize single mothers need to take a closer look at their own lives, their broken and dysfunctional marriages, their adherence to tradition for tradition's sake, and analyze who it's really benefitting. It's often people with seemingly squeaky clean lives who have the most problems, and yet they're the ones projecting their own failures and inadequacies onto people who just didn't follow the same path, as if it takes something away from their incalculable "sacrifices." I guess misery really does love company then. Just because you think a specific arrangement is better on an aggregate level, you have to allow for outliers. Cases like this are exemplary in this way. It demonstrates that we don't all have to do the same exact thing

    If we have all of these wonderfully empowered women taking charge 

    of their fertility and raising the next generation sans men, who is going to 

    teach all of our boys how to be fathers?  How to be responsible for their 

    progeny?

    Your arguments are sexist and they marginalize women. Only a man can teach a boy how to be a man? What happened to just raising good people? Women are more than capable of teaching their sons to be responsible, respectful, and successful. Your slight on women seems to argue that women alone are incapable of instilling values in their children, which is also quite insulting. Having strong male role models is one thing, but having any strong role model in general is better than having none at all. Try rephrasing your statement. It's important that we raise good people and, last time I checked, women were capable of doing so. 

    Single mothers confront daunting challenges everyday because they have to essentially be both mother and father; they have to wash and dry, they have to reward and punish, they have to comfort and teach, they have to pay attention 100% of the time, they have to forgive and forbid, they have to be sensitive and stoic, they have to embody the qualities that both parents would bring to the child. I think it's admirable when a single person, man or woman, can do all of this for their chid. Children are not solely influenced by their parents, either. Children can be surrounded by a network of friends and family that raise them. Happiness and well-being is not predicated upon a single standard, a standard that you are preaching as if it's the only solution to an epidemic of sorts. There's room in this world for all kinds of families, all with the same unassailable objective: raise a happy, healthy, well-adjusted person. Men and women, in the end, learn the same lessons about life. They don't have to be steered down neither a qualitatively female path, nor a qualitatively male path. Rather, what we should be focused on is raising our children well. How we do that is not your call to make.

    To say that only a man can teach a boy how to be a man means that you believe that only a woman could teach a girl how to be a woman. So by your logic, daughters don't need fathers, and thus your argument falls apart. I get what you're trying to say, you're just saying it poorly. I agree with you that children need role models, but we ought not confine them to mother/father. Where is it written that a child only learns through the behavior of their parents and the structure of their family? If every child mimicked the behavior of their parents or replicated their parents' structure, we'd never change. Your arguments call into question the author's ability to provide her child with a good life because she has not given him a father, but it's not your place to cast aspersions on her attempts at being an excellent mother. I think that people who argue exactly what you are endorsing are socially negligent and dismissive. After reading all of these comments, it's clear to me that you've lost this argument and now you're holding on to your flimsy premise despite the fact that you've been bested. Your defensiveness is transparent, and your reactionary behavior has definitely provoked the contrarians, and once someone appears to take this issue to personally, to me, indicates that you lack the confidence in the validity of your own argument - and you should - because it's a broken one.

    I think it's wonderful that your child has a father who stays in life, but at least give credit to people who fundamentally want the same thing as you - to raise a good person - but don't follow your rules. Again, it's just not your place to malign her for her means even though your ends are the same.

    For what it's worth, I hope the author's irreducible and immeasurable love for her son can give her the confidence to raise him to have a deeply rooted sense of pride, respect, and admiration in his mother, which will be a foundation for him, with or without a father. Some children don't even get that.

    To the men and the fathers: I applaud those of you who are involved in your children's lives. This goes for husbands and single fathers alike. It's no easier being a father than it is being a mother. That is not my argument, and I am not saying that you are irrelevant or expendable. You have just as much a right to love and nurture your children. The author does not deny the father access to his son. They came to a mutual agreement long before we even had this discussion, and their arrangement remains between them and their son. Her course of action is not militantly feminist at all. That just doesn't make sense. She could have just as easily conned some poor sap into impregnating her, and then taken him to the cleaners for child support, and denied him access to his son. She did not. Rather, she was honest with him, and they agreed with open eyes and clear heads how this child would be born and raised. So maybe they colored outside the lines a little in your opinion, but so what?! At least they did it in a way that based on honesty and a commitment to the same purpose. Making child-rearing so mechanistic by predetermining the structure of their family is extremely narrow-minded and self-righteous. For once, just try to imagine that someone can do it differently, if not better, than you, and stop fighting to fit people into these neat little categories and equations. There is no prescription or manual that instructs you on the singular way to start a family, and you cannot capitalize on your morality and sanctimony. You alone do not possess the answers about how we should all raise our children. Rather than just congratulate her and wish her and her son all the best, you chime in with your superiority and arrogance, as if it's somehow constructive. The problem with all of the holier-than-thou social commentators is that they claim to posses an infallible certitude in their personal choices with which everyone else should agree. If that's not arrogance then I don't know what is. 



    posted by : treber on 3/21/2009 at 11:49 AM Flag For Abuse

  30. I always find it fascinating how much more entitled we feel an entitlement to judge the lives of other people when children are involved. Of course there is a logic to this -- children cannot be their own advocates -- but it's hard not to suspect that we humans are just itching to pry into each others lives and judge each other, and children provide a pretense for doing just that (much as "family values" enable republicans to dictate lifestyles to the rest of the planet).

    I don't think having a child with limited financial resources without a father is something to be done lightly. And I don't think this woman has taken these steps lightly. It's pretty clear that this scenario wasn't her first choice, that she thought long and hard about it, and that she is rising to challenge, which is far larger than the challenge most married couples face. Hats off to you.


    posted by : rufus griscom on 3/22/2009 at 10:37 AM Flag For Abuse

  31. I always find it fascinating how much more entitled we feel an entitlement to judge the lives of other people when children are involved. Of course there is a logic to this -- children cannot be their own advocates -- but it's hard not to suspect that we humans are just itching to pry into each others lives and judge each other, and children provide a pretense for doing just that (much as "family values" enable republicans to dictate lifestyles to the rest of the planet).

    I don't think having a child with limited financial resources without a father is something to be done lightly. And I don't think this woman has taken these steps lightly. It's pretty clear that this scenario wasn't her first choice, that she thought long and hard about it, and that she is rising to challenge, which is far larger than the challenge most married couples face. Hats off to you.

    posted by : chatty daddy on 3/22/2009 at 10:39 AM Flag For Abuse

  32. One other comment -- I believe our generation (or mine - Gen X) made a serious tactical error in waiting to long to have kids. I know many women in this woman's situation who have not taken the step that she has, and will probably wish that they had in a decade. I am not sure it's fair to blame the problem on men, or subset of men such as those in new york city (although it's certainly true that we are a self-indulgent, good-for-nothing lot).

    In fairness, most of my female friends who got into this predicament left any number of men behind in the last 15 years who would gladly have made babies with them. Had they decided in their late 20s to find a guy and settle down, they could have done so without too much difficulty (or at least that's my impression). However, many of them waited until they were in their early-mid 30s to suddenly realize the window of opportunity was closing, freak out, and start baby daddy hunting in a manner that is understandably a little scary to a lot of men.

    I sympathize deeply with these women, but I do think that they bear partial responsibility for failing to recognize that though our culture has changed radically in the last several decades, biology has not. My impression is that that younger women have learned from this generational error, and women in their mid-20s today are thinking much earlier about family planning than their older sisters did.

    posted by : chatty daddy on 3/22/2009 at 10:46 AM Flag For Abuse

  33. chatty daddy - thanks for your take from the men's side. I do have to give my impression, though. (I am also a Gen Xer.) 
    When we were in our 20's, there was not the sort of information that is out there today on how it is difficult to get pregnant when you get older. All we ever heard about was IVF and how you could get pregnant well into your 30's. 
    Also, I don't think I have met many men who wanted to get married and settle down in their 20's (or even in their early 30's). I do know 2 men who got married in their 20's, but didn't start trying to have children until well into their 30's. Of course, I live in a large city, and I think men and women tend to have more of an arrested development than in small towns. I guess one way a woman can get around this is to try and meet an older man, but not every woman wants to do that.
    Anyway, at least among my friends, the thought that any of us had lot of chances to get married in our 20's is laughable. I'm not saying we were out searching for husbands, but they were not out searching for us either.
    In a strange way, I am kind of glad I didn't have this information in my 20's. I did so many things I could not have done if I had this cloud hanging over my head that I had better rush and get married. I traveled, lived in different places, met so many kinds of people, and had a great career. If I had to add "get a husband" as one of my goals, I'm sure something else would have had to give. I would have not had this wonderfully free and independent time that I so cherished. By the time I met my husband, I was totally ready to settle down, and I love my family life and have no regrets. 
    I am not saying that there is anything wrong with getting married young, but I don't like the idea that we now have to get married young whether we are ready or not.

    posted by : Laure68 on 3/22/2009 at 1:34 PM Flag For Abuse

  34. Chatty Daddy--I think there are several trends driving our (middle-class American's)  decision to start trying to have a family later:
    1. More of us want our marriages to be a partnership based on love, friendship and respect between equals.  People marry, and have married, for lots of reasons that have nothing to do with that--people married by a certain age because it was "expected of them" or to "get out of their parent's house" (this is why my own mother entered her short-lived marriage with my father.)  Women marry wealthier men so they could be taken care of and earn the respect and approval of their parents and peers ("Oooh, Sheila's marrying a doctor!") and men marry younger,  more attractive women so they can walk around with a pretty ornament on their arms (and maybe divorce her for an even younger, prettier model after a few years.)  Finally, some people rush into marriage with the first willing person because they want to pop out a few kids before they hit 45.  Most of us agree that these are all really crap reasons to get married.
    Still, a marriage that is based on "love, friendship and respect between equals" is a really hard thing to find for a lot of us....so we keep looking rather than jump into marriage with "some guy who is willing," to paraphrase you, in our 20s.  Having been raised in a home with two unhappy parents, and then by a happier single parent, I can guarantee that you don't do children any favors by bringing them up in an unhappy relationship.
    2. The economy has been changing for the worse for some time, "real wages" have been falling for decades such that most of us were/ are far less financially stable in our 20s than our parents were.  Many of us stay in school longer to compensate.  Yeah, I suppose I could have had kids at 27, but since I was living crammed into grad student housing with no health insurance and a 10K yearly salary (enduring poverty in the hopes that a could provide a well paying stable job for the kids I would have in 10 years' time) I opted not to.  Sue me.   
    3. I do agree, just from my own experience, with what some of the other posters have said.  It seems like women's expectations for marriage have changed faster than men's have.  Most of us aren't willing to be the "subordinate" partner anymore--that isn't to say we want to "be the one in charge" either, rather, we want a relationship of EQUALS.  A lot of married men that I know are happy to "let" their wives work, but that doesn't mean they're willing to take on a fair share of housework, cooking or the "un-fun" aspects of childrearing (like changing diapers, scheduling appointments, or sitting up all night with a sick toddler.)  Such men also automatically assume that (even if their wife is more highly paid, more successful or more educated,) that their career still has to come first in terms of who drops down to part time or where the family relocates, because, well, they're men.   Finally, I've also seen this trend wherein many men play the happy bachelor until they're in their mid/late-forties and then panic and start frantically looking for a single, fertile 30-year old willing to have their babies.  Peruse any online dating site and you'll find a ton of single men who refuse to date any woman who isn't at least 10 years younger than they are.  Then they get pissed off at your "ageism" when you aren't interested in being their younger trophy-wife/incubator.

    In summary.....no, sorry.  Happy children are raised in happy homes, and marriages of convenience are not particularly conducive to happy homes.  Or as my mother once told me "Honey, remember, there's no place on earth more lonely than in the middle of a bad marriage." 

    posted by : astrid1022 on 3/22/2009 at 4:39 PM Flag For Abuse

  35. treber - you are scary, with far too much time on your hands.  Who is raising your children...

    posted by : finishedwithbabble on 3/23/2009 at 9:09 PM Flag For Abuse

  36. wow, there may be a lot of irresponsible, selfish men out there but after reading the feedback on this site, I'm thinking they are equaled by the bitter, angry women out there.  My goodness, am I the only woman who still loves men and thinks they have something positive to offer us and their offspring??

    posted by : Lisa Hale on 3/24/2009 at 9:32 AM Flag For Abuse

  37. This is not about 'good' 2 parent families vs 'bad' one parent families. This is about a child who deserves to have both parents actively involved in his life

    I am not opposed to a single family home, i was raised by a single parent. however growing up i knew my mother and father should have done a better job of making sure i had a balanced life with both of them weather they got along or not, period, and I still feel the same way nearly 25 years later. children deserve to have 2 active parents in their life. it took 2 'active' people to make them. this does not mean the parents have to be together, or married, or whatever. it means if you are going to make this kind of decision do what is best for the child because believe it or not children are interested in knowing the entirety of where they come from.

    on a side note it strikes me as odd that all these 'open minded' people who think her choice is 'wonderful' cannot understand that all people are not going to agree with them. if they were so 'open minded' then would understand that for some people the 'everything goes' philosophy does not apply.
     

    posted by : everything does not go on 3/24/2009 at 9:04 PM Flag For Abuse

  38. for the comments saying that single parents by choice are equal to families with one mother and one father:

    it is inevitable that this child will learn that his biological father did not want to live with him while he was growing up.  that is damaging.  it obviously doesn't mean that every child who grows up with just a mom or just a dad or two moms or two dads will be dysfunctional.  it just means that the parents created a situation where the child was deprived of living with his biological mother and father. 

    i know a lot of people think this doesn't matter or is a secondary concern to the parent's desire to procreate but here is another way to think of it-- as a society, we are coming to accept the idea that giving up one's biological child is an okay thing to do.  most of us with kids would rather do anything before we gave away our precious children.  so why do we think it's all right for a person to donate an egg or sperm and then willingly have little or nothing to do with the child they created? 

    posted by : gretchen on 4/11/2009 at 9:01 PM Flag For Abuse


   
  
 
 
   


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