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Amen! Amen! Amen!
posted by : NorthernMom on 5/6/2009 at 12:26 AM Flag For Abuse
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AMEN!!everywhere we go people, usually women, stop my husband and i to gush about how amazing it is that he is so involved. when we go places, he's usually the one to wear her and so many people just can't believe that a father would want to be so involved with their child. we both find it entirely annoying to have people basically say they have such low expectations of fathers that something as small as carrying an 8 pound baby is cause for praise. really? no one tells me how great i am for staying calm while my kid starts screaming in a public place, but if my husband is the one to take her outside to calm her down, every woman turns to tell me what a great guy my husband is. And he is. he's the greatest. his awesomeness is the only reason i agreed to have his kid in the first place, but taking a crying baby outside isn't the reason why he is awesome, that's the reason he doesn't suck.
posted by : Mimi on 5/6/2009 at 12:27 AM Flag For Abuse
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Maybe it's not so much that as a society we need to stop congratulating dads for being involved fathers, but that we need to start valuing devoted motherhood as well.
posted by : Mommy Dearest on 5/6/2009 at 7:43 AM Flag For Abuse
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Last Saturday night I left our toddler with my husband so that I could go to a friend's birthday party. When I came home, I thanked him for taking care of our kid, not because it was going above and beyond (it certainly was not!) but in recognitition of the fact that his time is valuable and watching the Backyardigans for the millionth time doesn't really compare when your spouse is out having some grown-up time with some friends. And mostly I said it for the reason Mommy Dearest has pointed out-- I would like some darn appreciation in return when I'm the one staying home because my time is equally valuable! But that's a matter of doing something nice for your spouse and that is the reason that some appreciation should be expressed. I totally agree that "society" and strangers have no reason to congratulate "involved" fathers. It's like that line from Chris Rock about men who brag about having a job and staying out of jail-- those are things you're SUPPOSED to do! You don't ask for recognition for that!
posted by : Heather S on 5/6/2009 at 9:31 AM Flag For Abuse
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I was watching John Rosemond not too long ago and he made fun of this very issue. He says that todays mom is the parent and the father is the co-parent who waits in the wings for instructions to take over hen the "real" parent, the mom, is exhausted and needs a break. He says todays' pressures on mothers makes them anxious and micromanagers. I was laughing my ass off. Boy is he right! Women read all the parenting books from "experts" and the men wait to be told what they say. They are still trying to parent the way their dads did, sans instructions from the wives or the "experts". Look what a great job thier dads did without consulting their wives. No wonder so many women are on Prozac. They are trying to manage their kids and their mates.
posted by : Alice on 5/6/2009 at 10:56 AM Flag For Abuse
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I dunno. I think all the praise may be like with dogs or children. We're reinforcing good behavior. I also thank my husband every time he makes dinner, or does dishes. Of course, he likes to appreciate me, and always thanks me for making dinner.
posted by : Marj on 5/6/2009 at 11:49 AM Flag For Abuse
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As one of two mommies (there is no dad), I'm always flummoxed by the praise heaped on dads for doing the things moms do all the time. You're right, it is an insult to good dads congratulate them for doing a great parenting job as if we expected far less. But I think it speaks volumes about dads in general - why is spending time with your child, and parenting her equally, exceptionally praise-worthy? Do the majority of dads not do this, so when some do, it is really noticable? I think it's part and parcel of the same phenomenon of "single moms bad, single dads saints". The bar is so much lower for dads than for moms, that if he remotely reaches above it, we're head over heels with him. As a two mom family, we constantly hear concerns about "who is the male role model"....but if the male role model in most families has much lower parenting and partnering (ie responsibility-sharing) expectations than the female parent, what is he role modelling?
I wonder what dads think about this issue...
posted by : M on 5/6/2009 at 12:19 PM Flag For Abuse
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Yeah I wonder what my husband thinks of this issue. But he's too busy working to read this article. What does THAT say???
posted by : Heather S on 5/6/2009 at 1:03 PM Flag For Abuse
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This article was not about whether or not men work hard. Some do, some don't, just like women. I hope working hard outside the home doesn't absolve dads or moms of being equal parents and partners inside the home. I just wondered what dads thought about the idea of being heralded as incredible catches for doing what their partners do. I really would love to hear what dads who are equal partners think about the idea in general.
posted by : M on 5/6/2009 at 1:39 PM Flag For Abuse
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Being the person this article was written about, I am obviously flattered. I never got into the job of being a father because I wanted praise. I never get up in the middle of the night to take my daughter downstairs to potty because I want praise. I don't turn on a cartoon for her or kick the soccer ball with her because I want praise. I'm going to get in trouble with other men, and I know it, please don't take it out on your husbands when I say this, but I think some men just want praise. I think it part of a man's nature to want a woman to fall at his feet, based upon what I"ve seen of other guys. That's not what I want. I think all people should be treated as equal. It's great to be appreciated for who you are not just what you do. I hope people like me because I'm a nice guy, and I care about people and I take care of my friends and family. Not because I helped my daughter clean up a spill. She's my little pride and joy. As much as I yell at her, and I know I do it a little too often, I still can't imagine life without her. I probably don't appreciate her as much as I should or at least tell her how much I appreciate her because I let the little things she does annoy me. However, as a father, I can tell you whenever she calls for help, I do what I can to help her. I think that's what fathers should do. I agree with the post about mothers, I don't think mothers are always appreciated for what they do, especially the ones like my wife who stay at home and try to get their job done at the same time. I think she's pretty special too....
posted by : Jonathan on 5/6/2009 at 2:40 PM Flag For Abuse
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Okay, coming from another two-mom family, I have NO basis for comment, so take this for what it's worth... but did anyone recently see the guy on Oprah talking about why men cheat? From the bit I saw, it sounded like he was saying men cheat on their wives because they don't feel appreciated. I wonder if that's not part of this issue... if, like Jonathan says, some men just need a lot of appreciation, and if, like the man on Oprah says, not appreciating this type of man enough leads to cheating, maybe women heap on the praise to keep their husbands happy.
Again, totally a theory from someone who knows next to nothing about men...
posted by : anonymom on 5/6/2009 at 2:52 PM Flag For Abuse
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As one of those obnoxious people who is likely to compliment you if I see you, a stranger, in the grocery store wearing a shirt I like, I'm surprised that people are so upset about strangers saying kind things. I would have thought it never hurts to say something kind to someone. While I see the point of the article, I think if you're offended by someone complimenting your spouse's parenting skills, no matter how they word it, you're being over-sensitive.
Also, while society accepts in theory that parents should be equal partners, I think that's still relatively rare in reality, just like how women have equal legal rights in politics, but only 16% of US Senators are women. It just takes a while for the walk to catch up with the talk. I know many women who DON'T have husbands who take any share, much less an equal one, in parenting duties. Some families even choose to divide tasks that way. In our family, I'm the parent, and my husband is the moneymaker. That may sound horrifically archaic to you, but that's what we decided, together, equally, was best for our family. So if my husband watches the babies while I go for a doctor's appointment or a massage one Tuesday morning, he IS the babysitter. He is doing MY job for a while, though he loves it, and he is more than competent. I have no intention of not showing my appreciation for that, and I think it would be mean not to.
posted by : Mhristie on 5/6/2009 at 2:56 PM Flag For Abuse
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anonymom...I think some men will use that as an excuse to cover up the issues that are there. Maybe they aren't interested in their spouse or maybe something happened that they didn't want to talk about. I think a lot of the problem is that men don't know how to express their feelings. My father, as much as I love him, wasn't a man who really said how much he felt about something or someone. He bottled it up. For years I did the same and then I started breaking out of the mold. Men have to let things out ,but they are afraid to be labeled wimps or wussies, or other not so great terms. Men place huge burdens on themselves to be strong and not cry. For years men could dress like crap and it was ok. I'm glad to see that we are starting to reverse that a bit. As a man, there's nothing more embarassing than seeing another man walking around town looking like crap. But it isn't just that. It's nice to do things for each other. Sometimes I think taking the excuse that they don't feel appreciated is also a two-way street. Maybe the wife doesn't feel appreciated either, so they don't feel like "appreciating" the husband.
posted by : Jonathan on 5/6/2009 at 3:02 PM Flag For Abuse
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Amen!
It used to drive me bonkers (and still does) when people saw me and my husband in the first year after our twins were born and -- almost every time -- asked ME how I was holding up -- not him. Sure, I was maybe slightly more physically involved in the parenting process, being the one with the breasts, but it ended there. We have always been partners in parenting, 100%.
And I *hate* the "babysitting" thing.
posted by : Jane Roper on 5/6/2009 at 3:18 PM Flag For Abuse
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I agree somewhat with Mhristie above. Compliments are few and far between in this world, when someone pays you one, don't treat it as an insult.
People who compliment you want to connect with you, they want to make you feel good about what you're doing. They aren't trying to support a patriarchal system or insinuate that you're the second coming. If we could all be a little less eager to find offense in every comment, we might do a better job of supporting and appreciating ALL parents.
I'm a mom and I've gotten compliments about my parenting. I've also gotten the stink-eye when my kids are being brats. Of the two, I'd rather get the compliment. My husband actually complains about the opposite. When he has the kids older women feel free to criticize his parenting in a way they don't me.
posted by : relax on 5/6/2009 at 3:33 PM Flag For Abuse
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I think most families have settled into whatever their "norms" are as far as parenting and household roles are concerned and when one of us does something outside the norm (parenting or otherwise) we acknowledge that it was nice to get a little help. Anything that we do for each other that is outside of our "normal" gets a thank you in my book. If your "normal" is off, maybe you'd be upset about this. For me, it's just people talking. You know, whatever. Sure, Daddy's babysitting. He knows as well as I do that people say stupid things. Besides, is it any better when he gets ribbed about being "let off the leash" when he goes out? It's just stuff people say, not something to get worked up about.
(And, FWIW, you want to see praise? Watch what he does when I deal with the recycling for him.)
posted by : no big deal on 5/6/2009 at 9:20 PM Flag For Abuse
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@ Relax - Stop and ask yourself if you really mean to say that anyone is obligated to take a compliment, no matter the subject. Also, if the writer receives repeated comments about how "lucky" she is to have a man who does his duty as a parent it says less about patriarchy exactly and more about how low the standards are for fathers. I've gotten the same compliments as the author, from women.
@ No Big Deal - The author isn't calling for revolution in the streets. I'm curious however, how people can be convinced to stop and think before saying stupid things if no one ever gets a bit worked up and calls them on it.
posted by : fuchiafinn on 5/6/2009 at 10:51 PM Flag For Abuse
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Women who have supportive husbands who are active in caring for their children are lucky! They should be happy and thankful even to have a husband who wants to parent. Becasue so many of us are not so fortunate. Last saturday I had to volunteer at my son's preschool for clean-up day and the first thing my husband wanted to know was how long I was going to be gone. And when I asked him to help look for our daughert's ballet slipper because his mom was going to take her to class his response was "I should not have to spend another saturday morning looking for ballet slippers, this is my day off. "My day off." As a mother and one who is at home full-time now I don't get a day off. But my husband has a friend, who though his wife is at home, when he comes from work he does his part. Either getting the children ready for bed or cleaning up after dinner. He has shown up at many of children's birthday parties without his wife. My husband just doesn't get it. And know matter how much I reinforce with my boys that they have to do there share with keeping house if they see there father not doing anything I'm afraid they will turn out the same way as him.
So yes you are a lucky, becasue you have one of the few men who get it! That it takes two to parent and run a household.
posted by : not so lucky on 5/7/2009 at 7:01 AM Flag For Abuse
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I know I am not lucky because my husband is a great dad. I just made a good decision in whom I chose to marry and have a child with. I knew from our first date that he would do his part and that is one of the many reasons I decided to marry him. Like the author's husband, my husband parents, he doesn't babysit. He does get thanked for taking over duties, just like I get thanked for doing the laundry, making dinner, hell, even having sex. We know that appreciation will do wonders for the other person and have no problems thanking them for things they are "supposed" to do.
Personally I think it is time for this "woman" as parent thing to end. It devalues both mother and father and makes the family unit weaker.
posted by : ashersmom on 5/7/2009 at 10:33 AM Flag For Abuse
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fuchiafinn, I think people would be happier if they took compliments as compliments. Obviously, there are backhanded compliments and insults disguised as compliments. Of course, you shouldn't accept those as praise, they aren't meant to be.
Here's an idea:
People often stop to compliment my son, he's very cute and outgoing. They're less likely to compliment my equally cute but shy daughter. When this happens I always make it a point to say "Yes,I'm very lucky, both my children are wonderful." or "Well, he and his sister both get those baby blues from their dad."
Maybe with parenting praise we could all start to do the same, acknowledge the compliment as a gesture of goodwill, but add a comment that lets the person know they've forgotten something: "Thanks, I love taking care of my kids, my wife and I are a great team" or "Yes, I am lucky my husband is wonderful, we make a great team."
Sure it feels fake, but it's a better option than silently seething or insulting someone who thought they were being nice.
posted by : relax on 5/7/2009 at 10:51 PM Flag For Abuse
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not so lucky - the "my day off" thing drives me up the wall, too.
In our relationship, I am pretty clearly the parent, and he is the moneymaker. He loves the kids, reads to them and puts the older one to bed when he's home. He's the tickler, pirate-ship driver, and fixer. I just hate when he has a period of no work, and then suddenly tries to swoop in and challenge what's going on. I feel like he shouldn't get to pick and choose when he's a parent, because I sure don't.
And frankly, I wouldn't want to be the moneymaker. I adore being home with the shorties. And I'm better at it, just like he's better at earning a living. I couldn't put up with half the crap he has to go through. I really hope strangers say nice things to him when he's with the kids alone. Maybe it will make him do it more.
posted by : EllaAnne on 5/7/2009 at 10:55 PM Flag For Abuse
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At first I was ready to completely agree with this article. But then when I actually thought about it, I get plenty of comments for being a good mom too. People are a little more surprised when I tell them my partner changed every diaper when we were in the hospital, but I would say they are equally surprised when they see how happy the interactions between my daughter and I are. I think good parenting, is always in our culture a little bit surprising and worth praise.
posted by : Brooke Johnson on 5/7/2009 at 11:12 PM Flag For Abuse
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Well I will just say that I am a fulltime single father. I am raising a 6 year old little girl entirely on my own. This got me:
"Bad mothers are strung up. Bad fathers are shrugged off. Good mothers are, well, there. And good fathers? They're idolized. "
I hear you loud and clear. I hear it all the time from people how I am some kind of GOD that I am doing this on my own. And when I say on my own, I Mean my family all lives 3000 miles away, TOTALLY on my own.
If I was a woman, that would just be "my job".
But as a man doing it, I am a gift from the heavens.
I know its because its rare and likely more intuitive of a woman to do it. It's rare. It's uncommon.
However all I am doing is fathering my child and loving her. She is sleeping in the other room right now to Purple Rain by Prince. Hahaha. Because she listens to cool music when she goes to sleep. She is so funny.
Anyway I hear what you are saying, but the comments you are getting is out of ignorance. It's out of the history of the situation. He is in essense "babysitting" because he rarely gets them alone, RARELY. So in a sense he is babysitting. Granted, he is the best babysitter money couldn't buy, but yes --- in a way, since he never gets them alone, and it must be hard on him as a man, he is babysitting.
Men aren't meant to raise children on their own. I embrance it and do it and I think my daughter is doing GREAT. But - its not natural. It goes against nature.
Anyway keep writing your fantastic.
Ryan from California
posted by : shiznotty on 5/8/2009 at 2:29 AM Flag For Abuse
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Both my husband and I loved loved loved this article. We hate the "daddy's babysitting comments" and usually respond with a jovial "no, daddy is parenting." My husband did have this to say, however, "Nevertheless, I do have to say I appreciate the 'good will' that comes from people in public seeing a daddy taking care of their kid - the nod from other dads and the knowing smile from other moms."
posted by : Janelle Mattson on 5/8/2009 at 7:09 AM Flag For Abuse
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This article, or perhaps a slighted muted version of it written by a man, needs to appear in a publication like Sports Illustrated. I get that SI is not the right environment and would never run somethign on this topic. My point is that you're preaching to the choir here. Someone needs to point it out to the shameful dads who think it's ok to parent by the same standards adopted by their own dads that it's important to be equal partners in parenting. It doesn't make you "father of the year." My husband is great, and as equal of a partner as anyone could possibly be. But even for him, an occasional public reminder that he's not a saint, just doing his job as a dad, would be well received.
posted by : mom in atl on 5/8/2009 at 11:54 AM Flag For Abuse
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I loved this! One other thing I have noticed, though....when our children were younger, if my husband was either carrying one of the children or pushing the stroller, people would literally run to open a door or help him somehow. I could be trying to juggle a stroller, groceries, and the other two small children (all under 5 years old) and I was just expected to handle all of it just fine.
posted by : mainemom on 5/11/2009 at 9:31 PM Flag For Abuse
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And the most liberated among us STILL fall into this trap! My kids are older now (I still can't say grown up ... probably not 'til they're 30) and I have just one daughter - age 15 - at home. My husband is a hands-on dad. I'm a physician, and when I was in residency he spent every fourth weekend alone with all 3 of them. But to this day, if I'm working unusual hours his sisters who live nearby call to ask if they can help out.
Somehow, dads are not expected to handle the unexpected in the same way that moms are. Motherhood is around-the-clock -- whether you're the one physically doing it, or the one organizing and managing it. Fatherhood is more scheduled and predictable, perhaps?
posted by : mamarachel on 5/30/2009 at 9:45 AM Flag For Abuse
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I couldn't agree more! I have a great husband (not a perfect one...) and he is a great father to our toddler daughter. He is warm, caring, was a baby wearer when she was younger (a job we shared) and has had his fair share of nighttime parenting duties. I'm a SAHM and he is a WFHD dad. We are fortunate to solely provide our daughter with the round the clock love and affection she needs and deserves. We often muse how she has no idea what life is like for other kids, she has a hard time understanding where daddy is going during his rare trips to the office. As the SAHM I carry the majority of responsibility for her daytime care but dear hubby fills an active role before and after work as well as brief interactions during lunchtime or breaks throughout the day. I dislike the term "lucky" I'm fortunate for everything we have, eachother, our health, etc. and are by no means well to do. We've all made sacrifices to ensure our lifestyle. I chose well, I was mature enough at the tender age of 21 to go for the guy who was kind, family oriented and who would make a supportive husband as well as an excellant father, I did not rely on luck rather common sense and a clear vision of how I wanted to be treated and what kind of marriage I would like to have. I was and still am prepared to give it my all it just makes sense to expect no less from my partner.
posted by : Clarity on 6/11/2009 at 6:02 AM Flag For Abuse
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Oh, I think I could go on for days about this, amen sister. My husband is a SAHD and I have the full time career. We are constantly getting the "oh my god, you're so lucky your husband would do that," or some snide remark about him finding a "sugar momma." Or the very worst is when someone looks me up and down and says, "You're the bread winner?? What do you DO?!?" like how could I ever make more than a man, let alone make enough to support one.
It's just what worked best for our family, my job was more secure and paid more. He really is fabulous, but I don't think anymore than what should be expected :) He's not babysitting, he's not "daddy daycare" (gag), he's doing his job as a parent, just like I am, we're in this thing together.
posted by : cooper1178 on 6/18/2009 at 2:53 PM Flag For Abuse
