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Perhaps I'm reading this wrong - but is this article about attempting to Ferberize a 4 and a half year old? Because... That isn't a toddler. I'm pretty freaked out by a kid the age I was when I started kindergarten smearing feces around her room and screaming regularly each night. Clearly she grew up just fine, but that sounds like the behavior of a much, much younger child. I think the article may just need an edit to clarify her age, though.
posted by : Confused on 6/24/2009 at 12:16 PM Flag For Abuse
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I have read SO MANY sleep books, and I have to say, I completely disagree with the author's characterization of Ferber. People think they know what his research shows based on watching Meet the Fockers or reading what someone said in an online bulletin board. I really think it's unfair to critique his methods if you haven't read his entire book.
Ferber does no advocate one method for every child. He does not say you should let "him scream his little lungs out all alone wondering where the hell you went."
It's dishonest to represent his work that way. Maybe the author should have met with him so he could clear up her obvious misconceptions.
posted by : anonymom on 6/24/2009 at 12:38 PM Flag For Abuse
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It seems pretty obvious that most of this article is pretty tongue in cheek. After all, most people who ask if your baby is sleeping are just friends asking how you're doing, not competi-parents, and I'm sure the author knows that. Also, it sounds like she made the appointment when her daughter was 4 1/2, and stopped needing it when her child was five. Which pretty much goes along with what the book "The Science of Parenting" tells you about brain development and sleep.
posted by : catmom on 6/24/2009 at 1:11 PM Flag For Abuse
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Yeah, I get that it's all tongue in cheek, and I am not a Ferber fan, but, he doesn't say to let them cry for 2.5 hours without checking in...aren't you supposed to go after 5 minutes, then 10, then longer, over the course of a few nights? The whole shit thing is just too much...geesh
posted by : GP on 6/24/2009 at 1:29 PM Flag For Abuse
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Oh my god people. Did you READ the freaking article?!! Can't you see that the whole point of the thing is to call into question the kind of sanctimony you yourselves are now dishing up???
posted by : SM on 6/24/2009 at 2:45 PM Flag For Abuse
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I enjoyed the article very much, thank you. It was comic and funny, and hence exagerated. I had a non-sleeper, who has in turn spawned two more non-sleepers that don't sleep at my house every weekend, even though we call it a sleepover. Hooray for the courage to tell it like it is and blow it out of proportion a little for a belly laugh.
posted by : lalahem on 6/24/2009 at 2:46 PM Flag For Abuse
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was the maudlin ending supposed to be part of the "humor"?
"I also walked away from what those books represent: the idea that every child can and must be shaped into the same perfect being, and our need to get the gold star for doing it perfectly and by the book."
ummm, Ferber says nothing about turning children into "perfect" children. that's completely unfair.
he does want a child to SLEEP so they can function and be happy when they are awake.it's not like sleep is some yuppie luxury. it's a freaking necessity.
i agree with "Confused" that a near-5(!) year old has more than sleep problems if they are smearing feces all over the wall. but let's not make her conform to our ideal of what a child should be!
i'm beginning to suspect these "reports" of bad parenting are mostly fabricated to drive page view.
posted by : Adam on 6/24/2009 at 2:59 PM Flag For Abuse
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Great article! Funny and reassuring!
posted by : lola in san francisco on 6/24/2009 at 3:04 PM Flag For Abuse
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Wow. All you judgers. It's funny, since that's what this hysterical piece was all about--how parents feel the need to compare themselves all the time. Thank God this writer had the guts to tell it like it is!
posted by : Max on 6/24/2009 at 3:45 PM Flag For Abuse
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If you read carefully, it appears that the smearing s#$t part happened at an earlier age (I'm guessing around 2 years old). I live in Boston and know quite a few moms who went to see Ferber. They weren't competitive in any way. They just wanted some help! Ferber did help them, and he did not advocate leaving them to cry, contrary to the long-held myth. Also, they all were able to get in to see him within a month of calling. This is for anyone who wants to make an appointment: keep calling to see if there's a cancellation, because there always is. Just like in this article! I am guessing that lots of parents make the appointment, but then the kid starts sleeping better and they cancel. Finally, I thought this article was mediocre at best. There have been much better articles on sleep deprivation. And I hate the way Babble writers often complain about other parents being competitive or nosy or judgmental. I think people just want a topic of conversation that they have in common with other parents. Sleep is almost always a common issue for new parents.
posted by : Beth in Boston on 6/24/2009 at 3:50 PM Flag For Abuse
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This article isn't about sleep deprivation, it's about finding humor in the moments when you aren't getting it right. Sounds like there are alot of Ferber clients on this board!
posted by : JB on 6/24/2009 at 3:53 PM Flag For Abuse
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Thanks for this article. It brought it all back to me. We ferberized our first child and it was a disaster (e.g. bad sleeper till he was 6). We used the similar - in some ways harsher - but ultimately way-more-effective Weisbluth method the second time around (Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child) and it worked like a charm. But you never know if it's the child or the method. Personally, I'm a huge fan of sleep training and I left this article thinking that you should have kept the appointment. But I also think people are way too judgmental about these things and you have to do what works for you. Good luck!
Delia Lloyd
www.realdelia.com
posted by : Delia Boylan on 6/24/2009 at 4:02 PM Flag For Abuse
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I am completely against the cry it out method and I did read ferber and healthy sleep habits and did decide it wasn't right for me... but hell this article made me laugh out loud when I got to the part about leaving the house with the brest friend. I mean laugh out loud for too long. Maybe it's my sleep deprivation for 2+ years but I did think the article was quite funny, funny, funny. And I think she tried doing everything and that at the end of the day she felt like there is no one way to be a good parent, just the best parent you can be for your children. And there is a bit of comparing and judging about sleep, you know there is... I think she probably felt it much more deeply because she was judging herself for not having the child that goes to sleep at 7 and wakes up again 12 hours later. I know I have felt ridiculous sometimes when I admit to other people that my kid still wakes up multiple times a night and that i still nurse her. Who knew I'd be this kind of mother but my kid is fantastic and I am happy so I know that is all that matters in the end. When people see other people judging them all the time, it usually means they are judging themselves. If they were absolutely fine with their choices and decisions, they wouldn't give others a second thought.
posted by : katiesimon on 6/24/2009 at 4:05 PM Flag For Abuse
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I agree with delia, that weissbluth is better than ferber. I don't know if it can be called harsher: I found it less effective and more cruel to walk in every several minutes to give the kid a hope that if he cries i come again (i will!) than just let him cry, transition and fall asleep.
posted by : DaintySplendor on 6/24/2009 at 4:17 PM Flag For Abuse
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To be honest, if the kid were still waking up in the night at 8 years old, I'd tell her fine, just play quietly or read a book. Do not wake the rest of the household unless there is something wrong. Eight is more than old enough to be considerate that other people need sleep, even if Miss Nightowl doesn't.
posted by : Marj on 6/24/2009 at 4:25 PM Flag For Abuse
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we all get the humor and most of the piece was funny.but the author turned sanctimonious at the end by suggesting that Ferber somehow wants to create Stepford children.
and, as others have said, you probably should have kept the appointment if you have an 8 year old who can't sleep through the night. that isn't a unique badge of honor. that's a health problem.
posted by : Adam on 6/24/2009 at 5:23 PM Flag For Abuse
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<blockquote>...I also walked away from what those books represent: the idea that every child can and must be shaped into the same perfect being, and our need to get the gold star for doing it perfectly and by the book.</blockquote>
I have yet to read a book that asserts that every child can and must be shaped into some perfect being. Sounds like the author is projecting her own anxiety onto the authors of the books that she reads. People need to self-regulate a little...
posted by : highAnxiety on 6/24/2009 at 5:36 PM Flag For Abuse
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I'm still laughing at the line about walking out of the house with the brest friend. This is a great article offering some much needed perspective on the problems we face as parents: the kids do grow up and a lot of the problems sort themselves out.
posted by : mumus on 6/24/2009 at 5:43 PM Flag For Abuse
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Perfect! This is the best article I have read on Babble in a while. Love it, love it!
posted by : jojo44 on 6/24/2009 at 8:43 PM Flag For Abuse
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I thought this article was hilarious! Thanks for the laughs!
I have been to Dr. Ferber four times now with my son. I know some people do not "agree" with his approach, but I have to say that he is one of the most thoughtful, sensitive and considerate doctors I have ever dealt with. If you really read his research, esp. the latest, he does not believe in torturing babies and actually he never once told me to let my child cry. Rather he helped us understand how sleep works. He helped our family work on a routine which is really the key, not the crying. While we did see some improvements in our son's sleeping patterns, Dr. Ferber said that my son was one of those kids who just doesn't need a lot of sleep. In the end, you either have a child who likes to sleep a lot or you don't-- you can work on some things but each child is unique!
posted by : ferberfan on 6/24/2009 at 8:57 PM Flag For Abuse
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i was so surprised to read some of the responses about the tone of the piece.
this writer is so hilariously self-deprecating!!!!! this is smart, sharp writing that got at how we ALL try so freaking hard sometimes (and then realize it's time to stop). I totally related.
posted by : karenmadison on 6/24/2009 at 11:51 PM Flag For Abuse
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RE: crap on the walls @ 4
she's referred to as a toddler in the paragraph, and it's specifically called "baby shit" which if I remember correctly is its own specific category of shit.
posted by : stopoverracting on 6/25/2009 at 3:06 AM Flag For Abuse
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The article is funny, that I agree with. I just can't imagine living without a good night sleep for over 5 years. That just doesn't make any sense to me. I would have literally lost my mind.
My reality check was when I went to pick up my baby/toddler from day-care and realized that he was exhausted from getting up multiple times. And yes, I was voiding sleep training.
For my son, Ferber worked, we were lucky, but we certainly don't deserve a prize!
posted by : needsleep on 6/25/2009 at 12:33 PM Flag For Abuse
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IMO, cry-it-out methods are a form of emotional neglect. If uninterupted sleep is that important to you, don't have kids or hire a night nanny.
posted by : LindaLou on 6/27/2009 at 5:06 AM Flag For Abuse
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gosh, that was funny, thanks Babble.
and, honestly, don't you wake up once a night to pee or get a drink, or tell the dog to move over, or listen to your husband snore, or just look at the clock and then go back to sleep. waking up at night is not a sleep disorder.
posted by : just visiting on 6/27/2009 at 2:03 PM Flag For Abuse
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I think the writer should seriously reconsider the book's title - "Do you have Afterbirth?" or "I really want to buy Afterbirth" or "I'm going to consume Afterbirth all in one night" (sorry)
posted by : poop on 6/29/2009 at 2:44 AM Flag For Abuse
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Just Visiting- You're right... we all wake up at night and that's not a sleep disorder. Dr. Ferber agrees with you. His book says that everyone wakes up countless times in the night. The difference, of course, is that you don't need anyone to rock you back to sleep or to feed you to fall back to sleep. You've figured out how to do it on your own. His book says that feeding a baby to sleep or rocking him to sleep then moving him to his crib is what causes problems. He equates it to an adult falling asleep in bed with her favorite pillow. Then, when she wakes up in the night (as we all do) she realizes that someone has moved her to the kitchen floor. If this happened, the adult's sleep would be more disrupted because she would have to get up off the kitchen floor, walk back to bed, and try to fall asleep there. It's the same for a baby. When a baby falls asleep one way and then wakes up in a totally different location, it's jarring. Since the baby doesn't have the ability to recreate the original way of falling asleep, he cries and demands that the original way of falling asleep be recreated.
LindaLou- it's not that the uninterupted sleep is always that important to the parent... rather, interrupted sleep becomes a problem for the child. Children need sleep at night. It's how their brains grow and process information. Good sleep is vital to their health. Their bodies and brains are so busy when they're awake taking in SO much new information. I think by not helping children learn healthy sleep habits early we do them a disservice.
posted by : anonymom on 6/29/2009 at 8:15 AM Flag For Abuse
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Also the whole, if you need sleep don't have kids, is kinda an insane concept. Everyone NEEDS sleep. Not wants, or selfishly desires, NEEDS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_deprivation
posted by : Marj on 7/6/2009 at 2:13 PM Flag For Abuse
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I really enjoyed the humor of this piece.
I'm all for trusting your intuition. I am also all for reading the experts, taking time to balance what you read and hear with knowing who your child is. Who is this one? What are their special gifts? Special needs?
Knowing our child... then going right back to trusting our intuition. It's OK that one person likes one method and another does not. We asa paretns and households are as unique as our kids!!! The highest form of parenting is not giving our kids everything they need, nor is it doing what works best for us as parents alone...it is finding that balance between our needs and our kids and doing our best to walk that fine line. We're gonna slip off now and then and tha's OK. Most important thing for me in parenting? To love and forgive myself everyday for who I am and who I am not.
posted by : Zen Mommy on 7/10/2009 at 12:40 PM Flag For Abuse
