feedback for "Bad Parent: Theyre on Their Own"

1. By the time I applied for colleges I was aware that my parents would help financially as much as they could - which meant not all that much.  It helped me focus on what colleges I was going to apply to and in the end I picked a great college but it was based on how much financial aid I received.  I still had to take out loans (ended up with about 20k in college loans) and knew from the get-go I would be making monthly loan payments about 6 months after graduation.  It definitely motivated me to manage work-study jobs and baby-sitting gigs in with my classwork.
   I think as long as parents take the time to help their children understand what paying for college will be like and the responsibilities of a big loan, their children will understand what they're getting into and be more prepared to deal with it.  No one is entitled to a free college education - it's great if you get one from mom & dad or from full scholarships - but otherwise it's just part of life if you want that degree to invest in your future.

   posted by : Ariel on 7/13/2009 at 7:02 AM Flag For Abuse

2. I think this is a fascinating piece, full of information I never even considered before.  But my gut reaction was still, no way.  I am only having two kids because I can afford to send them to school.  My parents footed the bill for my school entirely (160k, in fact) and I expect to do the same for my kids.  Letting your children start life awash in debt is a surefire way to make the road to becoming a doctor, attorney, PhD or other specialist very difficult.  Not impossible.  But very difficult.  Why would you CHOOSE to make your child's life and road to success harder?  That makes no sense to me. 
   

   posted by : twobabiesonly on 7/13/2009 at 7:32 AM Flag For Abuse

3. Really great "bad parent" article!  I'm impressed: a topic that actually qualifies (rather than "I don't feed them organic" or something equally inane) well-written, interesting, and timely.  Twobabiesonly, I think the writer made excellent arguments about why she's going to make things more difficult for them -- did you skip over those parts?  Besides, this country is well-stocked in attorneys already; what we need are young adults willing to roll up their sleeves and work hard without having an easy life handed to them on a silver platter because let's face it, those days are over.
   

   posted by : Annabella on 7/13/2009 at 8:52 AM Flag For Abuse

4. This is a good piece on being a good parent. You do your children no favours by handing things to them for free. As well, a university education is no longer a guarantee of a better life. I especially agree with the point that by paying for their education you're sacrificing your own financial independance in retirement. I'd rather my kids have to experience reality and a bit of struggle as young adults than be burdened by me in my old age.

   posted by : Sid on 7/13/2009 at 8:54 AM Flag For Abuse

5. My parents had five children and, from the beginning, told us we were on our own for college. My mother worked her way through college and law school and my father went to a military academy, so their attitude was understandable. The only problem I see with this attitude is that my parents didn't really agree with each other.
   My father thought we'd handle our college costs solo, except with co-signed loans. My mother thought that they couldn't afford to send five kids to college, so agreed with my father, but secretly wished she could do more. This meant that the older kids really had little to work with, while the younger kids had a lot of options and help.
   Even though I fall into the 'younger kid' category, I still see the great injustice of how my brothers and sisters had to struggle, plan, and sacrifice while my sacrifices were minimal. One sister got into Sarah Lawrence, but we couldn't afford it. One brother attended the school that gave him the most financial aid, period. I merely had to take a semester off and work before going to my 'dream' school (which was as expensive as Sarah Lawrence). It just isn't really fair. And telling your children that one child is 'motivated' and thus deserves your aid while the other child is not...well, unless your kids agree (which it's doubtful they will), I envision many a future therapist session for your decreed 'un-motivated' children.
   

   posted by : Morgan on 7/13/2009 at 9:04 AM Flag For Abuse

6. This is an excellent article!  When I went off to college, I knew that my parents could not help me very much.  They would buy me groceries from time to time when I came home, etc.  This, however, did not stop me from getting into the best public university (tier one) in my state.  I took out loans, applied for grants and scholarships, and worked at summer and campus jobs.  While at college, I noticed that many of the students who were getting their entire degrees paid for them by their parents simply viewed their time in college as four (or even five) years to party it up.  There were some who were appreciative, but not many.  It was really sad.  I came out of college with debt, but I knew that this was going to be the case, so I budgeted appropriately when determining where I could afford to live. 
   
   As far as the comment made by twobabiesonly about it being difficult for kids to become specialists with student loan debt, I don't think it makes that much of a difference.  My husband attended the same school that I did for both his undergraduate and law degrees.  His parents helped him in much the same way that mine did, so he got through school with loans and by working. 
   
   I think that our loan debt has actually helped to turn us into more responsible adults than we would be if we didn't have it.  Sure, we would have loved to immediately be able to buy a house after graduation and trade in our clunker cars for shiny new ones, but we knew we would have to wait until we had the needed money saved.  Even with our debt load, we have still been able to save money and do pretty well for ourselves.  We don't want life to be hard on our kids, but we have already decided that we won't hand them a blank check for school.  We'll help to cover the gaps between of what isn't covered by loans, scholarships, and working, but they need to know that this is something they are doing for themselves.

   posted by : Suzy on 7/13/2009 at 9:09 AM Flag For Abuse

7. I do agree with this article and some of the comments here in theory... but I also think there is some important information that we may be missing here.
   
   The world is a VERY different place then when many of us went to college. While it may have been possible for you to pay for the majority of your tuition through summer jobs, scholarships, and grants, very few students can do that these days. Even "affordable" state schools are increasing tuition by 6-10% each year to cover the costs that the states are cutting. In the last ten years, the average amount of debt a student needs to take on to graduate from a state school has doubled. (Check out this link for more info: http://projectonstudentdebt.org/files/File/Debt_Facts_and_Sources.pdf)
   
   Because the government is giving out fewer grants and colleges and universities are offering out fewer scholarships, most students pay for most of their tuition with loans. When I started college (only ten years ago) my in-state tuition was around $8,000. Today, it is over $14,000.... for the exact same university. And that's an affordable school. I work at a state university and the tuition is almost $30,000 a year. 
   
   The problem with saying "I paid for college myself and so my kid should do it, too" is that our entire system of how we pay for higher education in the US is shifting. Whether we agree on if this is a good or bad thing, we simply can't compare the world in which our kids will go to college with the world where we went.
   
   As an administrator at a university, I do agree that the students who have some responsibility for their educations take their studies more seriously. However, I am deeply, deeply disturbed by the average amount of debt our nation's students have upon graduation. Sid, we're not talking about "a bit of struggle." In my state, the average student graduates with $25,000 in debt. That's the average.
   
   I think it's important that our young people take responsibility for their lives and their educations. I think it's important that we not write them blank checks. But I also think it's important that we educate ourselves about how things are different now than they were ten, fifteen, twenty years ago and think about what things will be like by the time our kids are ready for college (if that's what they choose to do).
   
   
   

   posted by : anonymom on 7/13/2009 at 9:29 AM Flag For Abuse

8. Complex! You've got a lot of good points.  As a tradesman with a college degree, and as someone who got my degree at 30 (and who has the loans to prove it), I think something is missing from this analysis.
   
   Certainly, it's a waste to send a kid who isn't ready to college, and certainly, it's important to teach young people to stand on their own. It's also important that you don't reduce yourself to poverty. Most of what you say seems pretty spot on!
   
   On the other hand, I'm really glad I have my degree, even though I don't use it at my job. I think it makes me a better neighbor, a better husband, a better citizen. My hard work (and the associated debt) pays off a lot for me, and also a lot for the people around me, in ways that have nothing to do with my job, but which are pretty important nonetheless.
   
   So where does that leave you as a parent? Should you bleed so your child has a chance to read Socrates and learn Calculus? Probably not. Should you sacrifice at all? I can't say.
   
   Thanks for the great article!
   

   posted by : Not at All Certain on 7/13/2009 at 9:33 AM Flag For Abuse

9. First off as a recent college grad (I can still say that if its been 2 years right?) I have been told over and over and over that student loan debt is the best kind of debt to be in because it shows lenders that you're working towards something (which is the answer I got when I bought my first car and the guy said my debt was fantastic).
   I was VERY lucky because my mom works at a college and I went there and only had to pay room and board, which still wasn't cheap. My parents covered books for my freshman and sophomore year and spending money (the college is relatively rural so it wasn't too bad) when it was needed, but I also had a job on campus (not work study) so I covered my random movie, outlet, or bar trips.  I'm glad to have the debt because a) it really does look good, b) it made me get off my ass to get my first job.
   While help is nice, there are many scholarships out there as well (as I have learned from my siblings who decided that going $80K in debt was an option).
   Just some thoughts and more power to you.
   

   posted by : a recent grad on 7/13/2009 at 9:39 AM Flag For Abuse

10. One of the better "bad parent" articles I've read. 
    When I was twenty years old, I decided to cut my parents off and finance my own college education, an education of my own choosing and at my own pace.  I wanted to take some time off, travel and pursue what my parents thought was an essentially useless degree. 

    One point I take issue with.  In my experience, choice is an important factor in a happy life.  A college degree may not be as valuable an economic investment as it was in the past, but a degree still opens a lot of doors.  
    My three year old daughter tells me she wants to be a truck driver like her uncle.  If she still wants to be a truck driver when she's eighteen, I'll say "Great, be a truck driver.  But get yourself a degree along the way."   

    posted by : denise on 7/13/2009 at 10:20 AM Flag For Abuse

11. OK, my two cents:
    I graduated from Tufts University in 1990.  My grandparents paid for my education, which totaled almost $100,000 by the time I was done.  If my daughter wishes to attend Tufts, or USC, her father's alma mater, in 2029 that cost may be close to a quarter of a million dollars.
    Universities have been on a spending spree lately, and their endowments have taken a major hit along with everyone else's 401K.  There's a very interesting article in the July Vanity Fair about the mess Harvard is in because of the aggressive investments in their 36 billion dollar endowment, which has lost at least 20% in the last 18 months.The point is you have to factor in the cost of inflation IF your child chooses to go to a 'top tier' school.  That's a crushing burden on any student or parent.
    I think what would benefit everyone is to take a hard look at higher education and what they have spent their money on in the last twenty years, and ask yourself if these prestige universities are really worth the money.  In my experience the alumni network is a major factor in future earnings. Look at Yale - a direct political pipeline to the White House; USC and UCLA open doors in Hollywood, etc.  
    However, that's not the case for everyone, and sometimes not being in that alumni network makes you hustle harder.  But it also can be a real impediment to getting in the door.
    Again, just some more information to factor into the discussion from someone who spends a lot of time helping young alumni.  There are a lot of things to consider in this decision.  
    Frankly, being bankrupt at 70 isn't going to help your kids, whether you pay for their educations or not. 

    posted by : NoHo Mom on 7/13/2009 at 10:51 AM Flag For Abuse

12. My parents helped me as much as they could while in college, but I still ended up with 25K in loans. I will do that same for my 4 children, and help them as we can, but they will be paying their way, just like my husband and I did.  I've been told by many a financial advisor - "if you can pay for your children's education, great, but you can't take out loans for your retirement, and your children can for their own education."

    posted by : mommydoo10 on 7/13/2009 at 10:53 AM Flag For Abuse

13. I think when kids are paying for most of it (or all of it) they get a sense of ownership and responsibility that they won't otherwise get if their parents pay for it. It forces them to decide if they're ready for school and if they can afford to party it up all day and all night.
    
    My husband went to a military academy and spent 10 years in active duty "paying" it back. I went to a small private college and had scholarships and loans. My parents paid nothing out of pocket. I also worked 4 jobs while I was in school to have spending money.
    
    We believe strongly in education, but also feel that not every kid is ready for the same college experience at 18. We've decided to set aside a lump sum for each of them and then the rest is on them.
    
    And I feel even more strongly about weddings. We're doing the same - for our daughters AND our son. If they want a 30K wedding, we're happy to give them some of it, but there's no way in hell I'm going to lose my retirement so my daughters can have a fancy wedding.
    
    Kristen Chase
    MotherhoodUncensored.net
    

    posted by : Motherhood Uncensored on 7/13/2009 at 11:01 AM Flag For Abuse

14. My oldest child is done college, my second child is about to leave for college, and they are both paying (or have paid) their own way.
    
    For starters, we can't afford to. It's a fact for many people that they can barely afford day to day living, let alone events 18 years from now, which may or may not happen or be a good idea.
    
    I think we do our kids a disservice to assume that they are going to go to college in the first place, and that mommy & daddy will pay for it. Why? then it's not their dream, it's mine.
    
    When they are 18, 20, they are adults, and they should be treated as such. Now, we're just insulating them even more if we pay for college and "help" them, and yes, even assume they're going to college. If we're going to make them make adult decisions, then they had better be *their* decisions.
    
    Both of my older children have found that their peers have no clue about how expensive life, let alone college, really is. Both of them have worked since age 16 - yes, at fast food places, but no, not for 10 or 20 hours a week with me nagging them to get there. (Yes, they had coworkers like this). They knew the money they were earning had to go to higher education (if they wanted) and they both worked their asses off at their jobs. They have a good work ethic, excellent resumes, and now the oldest has graduated with top honours and a decent paying steady (government) job in his chosen field.
    

    posted by : Momof4 on 7/13/2009 at 11:05 AM Flag For Abuse

15. I think that this article is refreshing in its level-headedness. I'm stunned when I hear about parents really suffering to bear the burden of their kids' college educations.  Not only do they feel like they should foot the entire bill, but they even feel that they must be able to cover out-of-state costs.  It's insane.  We've advised our sons to go in-state and told them that we'll help -- but we have no idea what that will mean. The burden is largely on them.

    posted by : brett on 7/13/2009 at 11:25 AM Flag For Abuse

16. As a fairly recent high school graduate, I feel whole-heartedly that the modern day higher education system creates anxiety, stifles creativity, and has created a generation of hard-partying and irresponsible young adults.  I made the decision to attend my local community college after attending a prestigious high school.  The decision was based on many factors, financial and emotional.  I was acutely aware of the "shame" I was causing my parents, even though my decision was partially based on not putting them through the financial stress and being able to continue to send my younger sister to that same prestigious high school.
    I wish that my parents, and everybody's parents, would snap out of it and realize that college is not the sole determining factor in whether or not you will have a fulfilled and successful life.  University has become as much of a value judgement as a way to pursue a vacation.  And because an undergraduate degree has become all but compulsory, the value of it has gone down signifigantly.  I work at a coffee shop, and we are receiving applications every day from young adults who graduated from our local, VERY highly ranked university-- with degrees in things like theater and biochemistry-- and they aren't getting the job.  It doesn't exactly fill me with hope for the future. 

    posted by : anya24 on 7/13/2009 at 11:43 AM Flag For Abuse

17. I am completely on board with this article.  I had to put myself through college and emerged six years later with a magna cum laude diploma from a large and well-respected private university, a master's degree, ZERO debt, and $7,000 in the bank.  I also traveled to Europe and Africa four times, all without any contributions from my parents.  It was a wonderful time for me and I am grateful to my parents for not stepping in.  I finished my master's in 2006.  Things haven't changed that much in three years.
    
    You bet I'm going to let my kids pay their own way through college.  In my opinion, doing otherwise would be cheating them out of a brilliant experience.
    

    posted by : iulia lactans on 7/13/2009 at 12:00 PM Flag For Abuse

18. Interesting article. First, I would say it is a mistake to quote that NYT article. They so often base conclusions on anecdotal information, and I think this is one of the cases.
    
    Personally, I am planning on helping out my child, while having him pay for part of it through jobs and through loans. (As many have said, college costs have gone up astronomically.) 
    
    Also, what I spend would depend on what my child wanted to study. If he studies something practical (engineering, accounting, etc.) where they could get a job upon graduation, I would offer more support. However, I never understood parents who spend a ton of money on private colleges where their kid studies something like art history. I know people are going to get mad at me for saying this, but when I have met these former students (who studied things that were not practical) they almost always say they chose something that would allow them to have a lot of fun in college. If that is the student's goal, I would say they are not ready to go to college yet. The idea of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars so my child could get a degree that would almost guarantee them not getting a job seems ridiculous to me. 

    posted by : anon on 7/13/2009 at 12:33 PM Flag For Abuse

19. Meagan,
    If my daughter chooses to become a landscaper or a hairdresser or a plumber or a farmer (like my father) or a SAHM (like my mother), I will be thrilled for her and support her choice. What I do want, though, is for her to have a choice. My father died leaving a wife and 6 kids. If I hadn't lived in 1970-80s Canada when gov't education grants where available, I simply would not have gotten an education b/c a) I wouldn't have been able to afford it and b) my working class lack-of-entitlement issues would have sabotaged all my aspirations. (e.g. When you grow up dirt poor, you tend not to take on debt b/c you have a hard time believing that your future self will be worth the investment.)
    
    My 10 years of higher education were the best thing that ever happened to me and not just b/c they raised my standard of living, but because I (and I mean just me here) needed that education for my mind, body and soul. Now, as a comfortably middle class woman, I save for my daughter's education not because I think it a given that she will want to go to university but b/c I think she should be able to make fair and equal choices. Remove the money; remove the choice.
    
    I agree with a lot of what you say here--that kids need to help support the burden of their own costs and that they need to make decisions that are in their own best long-term interest and that life should not be a free ride--but I do take issue with a couple of areas in your article where you have conflated ideas so as to make your point.  For example, you conflate the value of different kinds of deprivation: sitting on milk crates eating crap food and watching movies from the library is not the same as working to pay for a 200k education. Also, the sweeping assumption that middle class parents save for their kids' education b/c it would be demeaning for them to have a non-university educated kid is quite unfair. That attititude may exist in some families but I don't believe it to be pervasive. Its use in your article is a bit of a red herring.
    
    We (all of us) do need to raise kids who will work for and fight for what they believe in. We do want to raise kids who place value in learning, whether that be academic in nature or skills-based. I, however, cannot agree with your bootstraps approach to making this happen. And so, I save. But, hey, I just have the one kid to pay for so I clearly do not face the same issues as you. I respect the fact that with five children, you are in a very different position.
    

    posted by : Mad of MadjustMad or Under the M on 7/13/2009 at 12:39 PM Flag For Abuse

20. My husband and I both graduated from Ivies with no debt because our parents paid.  Now we both have well-paid jobs where we are treated with respect, a small but nice house to live in with our darling baby girl, and the money to pay a lovely and professional nanny a living wage.  We would not have any of those things if we were crushed under the weight of mid-six figures school debt.  You can bet we're putting away as much money as we can so that she has the same starting point that we did.

    posted by : Chiken on 7/13/2009 at 12:52 PM Flag For Abuse

21. I wholeheartedly agree with this article. My parents didn't pay my way through college--I had to rely on scholarships and loans and working, and I think because of that, I studied harder and managed my time better. Yes, I went out like everyone else, but one night a weekend, not Thurs-Sat with Sunday to sleep off a hangover. Because I worked and I worked for my grades, I couldn't afford to party my college years away. So many kids I knew whose parents were paying skipped classes, dropped classes, took the 5- or 6-year route to a 4-year degree...and I think some of that was not having the monetary responsibility.
    
    That said, I know education costs are getting higher. My husband's parents footed his bill and we've reached a compromise. We put in enough money in education funds to pay for what our financial adviser estimates will be 1/2 the cost of state tuition when our girls are ready to go. If they want something different, they will have to crunch the numbers themselves.
    
    And THAT said, if one or both of them decides to do something else for awhile or even permanently, I don't think college is the end-all for career happiness. How many people do you know who are actually happy at their jobs, college or not?
    

    posted by : Gretchen on 7/13/2009 at 12:55 PM Flag For Abuse

22. I'm not sure why, since its not my family, but this article just makes me mad. Five kids? Why? I think in today's world paying for college is pretty basic. If you can't support them properly, don't have them. There seems to be a new trend of people having a gaggle of kids with little thought of the big picture. You don't have to go broke paying for college if you start saving when they are born and there are plenty of good state/public schools they can go to so as not to have it cost hundreds of thousands of dollars (or whatever the future exorbitant rate will be, adjusted for inflation). People are living in fantasy land. I had to pay my own way and it wasn't that big of a deal except that I had to bust ass working and it took me a long time. I guess it's just a matter of whether you value education. I do, my husband does, my parents didn't so much, and it seems the author doesn't either.
    

    posted by : GP on 7/13/2009 at 12:58 PM Flag For Abuse

23. I just posted a long response to the comments here, and somehow it disappeared! So I'm just going to address the red herring issue Mad brings up. I would never argue (and didn't--I said "some of us") that all middle-class parents are academic snobs. However, I've witnessed this kind of attitude -- both blatant and more subtle -- enough to know it's out there, and I think it serves us well to examine our motives to make sure we aren't being influenced by it.
    
    Also, I think there's a huge difference between a kid living in poverty who truly has no resources and a kid coming from a middle-class home in which this is even a question. One has very few choices, the other comes from a culture in which higher education is valued and the norm and where parents know how to navigate the system even if they don't have the funds available to pay for it (or aren't willing to go into debt for it).
    
    Fact is, many parents who fully intended to pay for their kids' education now find themselves in a position where they can't. Saving is not a guarantee, either-- not if you lost your job or all the equity in your home right before your children were supposed to head off to school. But I believe that with the right attitude, encouragement and support (whether financial or not) those kids will still make their own way.
    

    posted by : Meagan Francis on 7/13/2009 at 1:15 PM Flag For Abuse

24. If you are willing to pay for college, you have to be willing to pay for whatever degree your child wants to pursue.  If you only agree to pay for something 'practical', then your kids will really not have ownership of the experience.  What's practical can change with the times.  It used to be practical to go into finance, no it isn't.  In my work with successful alumni many of them majored in subjects that have little to do with their daily careers.  Instead, the experience taught them critical thinking and developed their curiosity and inquisitiveness, and these traits are what fueled their later success.  Many former Art History majors have started their own businesses.

    posted by : NoHo Mom on 7/13/2009 at 1:16 PM Flag For Abuse

25. I agree with NoHo...college isn't necessarily about what's "practical" and who are you to decide what someone should do with their life? A liberal arts education, many would say is not "practical" in terms of directly translating to earning potential, however, it makes for a well-rounded person and can pave the way to an interest for a graduate program.  And, further, like NoHo points out, people often get jobs in things other than what their degree was. If they are smart and savvy, that's what counts. But the good foundation of a basic undergrad degree is helpful. If you raise your child right, they won't look at college as only an opportunity to party and choose the easiest major.
    

    posted by : GP on 7/13/2009 at 1:30 PM Flag For Abuse

26. Another argument in favor of the author's take on paying for college: With life expectancies as high as they are these days, you probably do your kids a bigger favor if you put most/all of your savings into retirement. I'd rather my kids have some educational debt than have to support me in my old age.

    posted by : ohk on 7/13/2009 at 1:34 PM Flag For Abuse

27. Although the author makes a few good points about the value in having children be invested in and responsible for their formal education (including deciding whether to go to college, and what to major in) I also suspect the author is making convenient excuses for the fact that she had five children who she can't afford to help with their educations.  The truth is that working one's way through college is becoming nearly impossible with today's costs, and it's quite a burden to undertake on one's own.  I had to work my way through college with a nearly full-time job and missed out on incalculable valuable college experiences that did not involving drinking (joining clubs and groups, making friends, participating in campus activities).  I got the degree, but I missed out on so much.
    
    I read about a hard-working, affluent father who could well afford to pay for his four children's college and graduate school educations, but who required them each to pay for their first full year of college (with money saved from high school part-time jobs and birthday gift money, etc.) so that they would be fully invested in the effort and take it seriously.  Then, he paid for all the rest.  That solution solves the problem of having lazy ungrateful kids graduate from college with a useless degree, but it sounds like it's not an option for the author's five children.  Too bad.
    

    posted by : mom to one on 7/13/2009 at 1:40 PM Flag For Abuse

28. I put myself through community college, then our local university via a full time job and federal student loans. I went part time for 7 years before graduating with honors. I work at a job I love in the nonprofit world now and don't anticipate having much money to help my son pay for college. But I think he will be better off for that.

    posted by : poorbuthappy on 7/13/2009 at 1:40 PM Flag For Abuse

29. Mom to One: I actually started thinking this way about 1/2 way through my freshman year of college. As I've gotten older and wiser, many of my viewpoints from that time of my life have changed, but this one has not.
    
    I certainly didn't wake up one day, say "Oh no, I have all these kids and not enough money to pay for them! I better conjure up a worldview to justify it!"
    
    However, you are right in a way: this opinion definitely did factor in when I considered whether or not I felt I could afford to have a large family.
    

    posted by : Meagan Francis on 7/13/2009 at 1:53 PM Flag For Abuse

30. Working your way through college is not impossible with today's costs, mom to one.  I did it and I was better off for it.  I don't understand why people persist in thinking that in order to be well-educated and successful, a person is doomed either to depend on their parents or take out student loans.  It simply isn't true.
    
    I worked my way through school.  I worked full-time in the summer, part-time during the school year, and I worked my brain to the white meat in my studies.  It was magnificent!  I got through on what I had earned and on scholarships.  I made friends, I traveled to twelve different countries, and when it was over, I was in a position where top-rated research institutions were recruiting me for doctoral programs.  No, I didn't go to an Ivy, but after six years of hard work I could have, and they would've paid me for it.  So I think I can say most emphatically that I didn't miss out on a blasted thing.  All without relying on my parents or a penny of borrowed money.
    

    posted by : iulia lactans on 7/13/2009 at 2:08 PM Flag For Abuse

31. You know, I have thanked my lucky stars many many many times that my father chose not to pay for my college (I annoyed him by getting pregnant and refusing an abortion).  At 17, having never paid my own bills, I was all set to go out of state and study political science, mainly because I found politics interesting and wanted to get out of Texas.  I had no clue what my dad was getting ready to pay, or what exactly one does with a political science degree.  My grades were good enough, though, and I wrote a decent essay, so all the adults were ready to send me off to figure that whole political science thing out.
    
    Instead, I worked hard, hard, and harder to support myself and my kids untill my husband and I figured out a way for me to start taking community college classes (just the basics, we thought).  I ended up stumbling across funeral science at the community college, and took just two years to become a funeral director.  I love having a career that serves my community, is totally recession-proof, and is really and truly fascinating.  I never would have discovered it if I had gone the "traditional" route, and what a loss it would have been.  At best my parents could have spent $40,000-$100,000 on a degree that would have likely had me earning around $35,000 a year at first, maybe.  More likely, I would have then struggled through grad school, or dropped out when I realized that unpaid bloggers are the new political journalists for the most part.
    
    My husband and I have a compromise in mind--We pay for two years, which we strongly suggest is spent on a trade, like becoming a paralegal, medical office specialist, teacher's aide, etc.   That way, they can stay at the paraprofessional or trade level, if they like, or use it to work their way to a higher degree.  It would sure beat slinging burgers!

    posted by : myanna on 7/13/2009 at 2:13 PM Flag For Abuse

32. I find the idea that young adults take their education for granted if they don't pay for it themselves fairly ridiculous and a little disingenuous.
    
    Now if, like the author, you simply feel that the money is yours to do what you like with, that's another argument entirely. I don't think it makes you a bad parent, but I do think it's out of touch with the reality of college costs. I'm a mid-career professional and I still don't earn enough in a year to pay tuition at my alma mater. (Holy cow.)
    
    I was fortunate enough to receive a good deal of need-based financial aid. My husband was fortunate enough to have parents who paid for his degrees. The financial leg up and stability this gave us was invaluable. Neither of us takes that for granted. We both studied hard, use our degrees professionally, and give back to scholarship funds. And we hope to give our two kids the same leg up as much as we are able.
    

    posted by : MNMom on 7/13/2009 at 2:18 PM Flag For Abuse

33. To NoHoMom and GP - My viewpoint may be because of how I was raised. My parents (who are both immigrants) were working-class, on the lower end economically. They struggled their whole lives. They also decided to only have one child so that they could provide me with a good education. (I still worked and paid for a lot, but they contributed as much as they could.) I always viewed education as a way to better oneself economically. Thinking otherwise is a privilege of the middle-class. I got an engineering degree from a top university, and my life was instantly easier than my parents' life ever was. The idea that I would get a degree and then eventually get a job in something completely different was foreign to us.
    
    Of course people with liberal arts degrees can go on to do something else, but that requires either a graduate degree (more debt) or really struggling to make it. I guess if the parents are well-off and can continue to support the child after graduation (which I guess applies to us), that opens up more options. The student just needs to understand the struggles ahead of them.
    And yes, if someone really loves art and that is why they want to study art history, that is one thing. However, I have met so many people who got a certain major because they did not want to work too hard. This is really an American way of thinking.

    posted by : anon on 7/13/2009 at 2:39 PM Flag For Abuse

34. when push comes to shove, are you going to tell your kid he has to go to community college instead of amherst or smith?
    it just seems like you're manufacturing all these "philosophical" arguments simply because putting 5 kids through college is hard.
    if you have one kid, you don't write an article about bootstrapping and "your money"

    posted by : adam on 7/13/2009 at 2:46 PM Flag For Abuse

35. I PLAN to pay for college fully.  By plan, I mean I am saving for it.  If of course, if my child is a lazy, unmotivated person who doesn't deserve a free ride to college- then they won't get the money.  If it turns out they want to go to tech school or something else, then I will use the money I saved to help them and whatever is leftover, well who knows.  But this way if I get a bright, motivated kid who doesn't take hard work for granted, I am ready to support them financially in this endeavor.
    
    I guess I kind of think this article rails against those of us who place a significant priority on planning to send our kids to college fully paid.   There is nothing wrong with planning to do this (assuming one can).  There just may be something wrong assuming automatic entitlement to that money regardless of what your kid does or wants when the time comes.
    
    I
    

    posted by : CollegeMom on 7/13/2009 at 2:48 PM Flag For Abuse

36. I think it's fine not to pay for kids college, if you can't afford it or if as a parent you haven't managed to foster a work ethic and sense of responsibility in your child. Even though my parents paid for my college, I knew SOMEONE was paying for it, and that the money didn't just magically appear. That's the problem when parents, like the author, say "my money" and "their education." They're totally separate. Which I can see would easily  lead to pissing away an opportunity at college.
    
    
    And, it will be interesting for the author to see what happens in her family if one of her 5 kids gets a parent supported 4 years at Harvard and another gets to stay at home and apprentice with a plumber.
    
    I agree with the authors main premise--it's ok not to pay for kids college if there's a reason not to. But I think a lot of her reasoning is selfish, unfair and pretty immature.
    

    posted by : USandTHEM on 7/13/2009 at 2:49 PM Flag For Abuse

37. Something you should keep in mind if you plan on NOT paying for your kid's education.  Don't try to have your cake and eat it, too.  If you're not going to pay for college, don't try to claim your kid on your taxes any more.  They'll be eligible for more financial aid and tuition wavers if they're independent students.  They will not have to file their FAFSA and have it based on YOUR income. 
    
    For some (except for orphans, those estranged from their parents, etc.) this might mean living on their own for a couple of years before going to college so they can get this status, but it might mean the difference between making it or not. 
    
    If finances are so tight that they have to make a choice between working and school just to make sure all the bills are paid, you are doing them no favors (and are being pretty selfish to boot) if you continue to claim them as dependents.
    

    posted by : Mama Rati on 7/13/2009 at 2:53 PM Flag For Abuse

38. As a sometime college teacher, I see so many kids who really probably don't need to be there--they don't care about the education, they are there for the party and have their parents snowed, footing the bill because it's an assumption that middle-class kids get four-year degrees.  If some of those kids had to pay even part of their expenses, they might decide to study more or they might decide college isn't for them--or for them right now.
    
    My parents paid for my first degree and suffered to do it.  I paid for subsequent degrees and have huge student loan debt.  With my kids, I'm saving, but not aggressively.  We'll have what we'll have and they can cobble the rest together.  But we also have the cultural capital to help them find funds if needed.  My partner is especially good at that, with years of university teaching and admin work under her belt.
    
    So I guess we're kind of 50-50 on this question.  If I was Meagan, with five, I'd probably either do what she's doing or save a certain amount and split it 5 ways--though it wouldn't fully cover anyone.
    
    Great article, Meagan!
    

    posted by : Shannon LC Cate on 7/13/2009 at 3:02 PM Flag For Abuse

39. Most of the alumni I work with are in the entertainment industry, and hate to say it, but none of the ones who are running major media companies, showrunners, or represent a-list talent majored in drama, film or screenwriting.  Some of the majors were International Relations, Spanish, Physics, History, etc, etc.  Only one got an advanced degree (Law School) but is a senior talent agent.  Let's face it, it's hard for schools to keep up with the changing dynamics of day to day job responsibilities so what they work to foster is the ability to absorb ideas and process them quickly, and then demonstrate mastery of the ideas presented.  In the workplace this thinking process can help you sift through massive amount of information and make informed choices moving forward. You can still do that with art history, just as you can do it with a trade.  It depends on what kind of thinker the student is and how they process information.  The only person who knows how the student will best process information is the student themselves, not necessarily the parents.

    posted by : NoHo Mom on 7/13/2009 at 3:03 PM Flag For Abuse

40. I am a mother of a new baby and returning to college in my thirties and it is very difficult to afford an education these days.  I have opened a savings account in my daughter's name.  In it will go money that people give to her as gifts or money that I might have otherwise been tempted to spend on one more toys she does not really need.  It will probably not be enough to fund all her undergraduate studies should she decide to pursue them, but it will be a head start and I am proud that we are helping her.  I do not think it will make her lazy.  I certainly wish I did not have the thousands of dollars of debt which I promise is adding to my anxiety and not my character.  I got a tuition scholarship and for that I am luckier than most.  I still have other expenses that it does not cover and so have still had to borrow.  If she decides not to go to college she can use the money for a down payment on her first home.  Many years ago before it was all gone our family used to give their children land to build a home on, to start a life.  It was certainly not the answer to all of their problems but it gave each one of them somewhere to begin.  It was a gift of love from a family of farmers who grew up poor with nothing but their land to share.  We have all left the country, but I still want to give my daughter that gift.  If your child is someone who is lazy and takes things for granted it occurred because of some thing you did long before you turned over a bank account at age 18. 
    

    posted by : College Student and Mom on 7/13/2009 at 3:10 PM Flag For Abuse

41. I'd like to add something to the conversation about choosing a "practical" major. Although I agree it is wrong to straight out tell your child what they can and cannot major it, there is certainly nothing wrong with encouraging and guiding them. My husband grew up in a wealthy town. He and all his friends had college paid for them, and almost all of them (including him) majored in liberal arts. He struggled to get a job that paid the bills for years. (He believed strongly in not living off his parents after college.) He finally realized he had to get a graduate degree in something more practical. He did this part time, while working full time, and it was a huge strain on him. He always says that he wishes his parents would have encouraged him to think more about the major he chose, and what he could do with it once he graduated. They were all so sheltered and thought the world would just give them jobs off the bat. The amazing thing is, when we visit his home town, so many of his friends are still living off his parents dime. (And we are in our mid-thirties.)
    
    I may be biased because I am a nerdy science girl, but I think already there is so much in our culture discouraging kids from going into math, science, engineering, etc. (Especially girls.) In so many other countries, it is actually considered cool to be interested in such things. 
    
    And someone said if you decide on paying for college you have to pay no matter what major. If I am paying, I certainly have the right to try and guide my child. I know what is "practical" changes with time, so it is more about asking your kids to do their homework to understand what is waiting for them after college. If they choose something non-practical and can accept the struggles, more power to them.
    
    And this is where I can see the point of having your kids pay for at least some of their education. They will be much more likely to think about what they are studying. 

    posted by : gpgirl on 7/13/2009 at 3:39 PM Flag For Abuse

42. I had no one to help pay for college.  Lucky you if you had parents that were financially able to do so.  I was able to obtain grants and loans and I WORKED, during school, not just the summers.  A novel concept for friends and for current college students that I know.  Yes - I missed out on a lot of the "college experience," but I also did not spend my free time drinking and wasting away valuable time in a meaningless sorority or other social clubs.  Somehow I still managed to find time for fun.  It took me 7 years to graduate with my 1st degree and 3 to finish my Master's.  It was difficult, but the work and life experience I gained while in college made me much more marketable and has enriched every aspect of my life, personally and professionally.  I have a ton of debt and so does my husband.  We were still able to buy a house, we drive 10 year old cars, and have 1 child.  Through struggle comes strength.  I want to assist my son as much as possible, but I also want to be responsible for his own life and education.  I do not want him to become and overindulged child who expects his parents to pay for his life until he is 35 or looks down on others who choose a different path for their life.  Our children are capable of much more than they are given credit for.  While I hope my son avoids many of the struggles I endured, I hope that he also experiences enough to become a compassionate and well-rounded person.

    posted by : hardworkingmom on 7/13/2009 at 3:46 PM Flag For Abuse

43. As a fairly recent liberal arts grad  (With a "useless" double major in English and Art History) I feel I should set the record straight a bit regarding the difficulty of finding a job with a non-"practical" degree. My closest friends majored in things like English, Sociology, Creative Writing, Film & TV, Journalism and Theater. We are currently employed by a top PR Agency, television network, giant tech company, financial planning agency, art museum, I could go on. We all had these jobs within a month of graduating from college. Having a degree that teaches critical thinking, emphasizing writing and communication, actually opens doors. I had a job lined up before I graduated college (2 yrs ago.. I know the landscape has changed a lot now) and have a million options if I choose to switch fields. There are so many careers out there that, because they aren't as flashy or common as doctor or investment banker, tend to get overlooked. It's absolutely ridiculous for a student to discount a major they love because they feel they "should" do something with an obvious application. When you study something extremely specific, you're actually limiting your choices after college.
    

    posted by : Audra on 7/13/2009 at 3:54 PM Flag For Abuse

44. Bottom line, we all do what we think is best for our kids. For my part, my husband and I are saving a reasonable amount for our children, and beyond that, it is up to them. I'm sure we'll contribute as we are able, but we won't sacrifice our retirement for our children's education.
    
    However. I think it is a little easier to have this attitude with five kids than one or two, and I don't mean that in a dicky way, just the way things sort of work. For starters, you're almost guaranteed financial aid in the form of grants and good loans no matter what your income, just by the nature of how many children you have. That alone makes it .. easier on your kids, and I know that sounds stupid, but I think it's true.
    
    We're in the (lucky) unlucky income bracket that our children are unlikely to receive much, if any, financial aid (assuming we stick with two), yet we will be unable to fully fund their education at an expensive university, particularly at a small liberal arts college. Meaning, we pretty much HAVE to save something for them. Which leads me to ...
    
    The one decision I am making for my children with regards to their education, if they want my money, is that they will go to a large-ish university, preferably of the state variety. It's pure economics -- they, and by extension me, will  I've had three different careers, and to be frank, have noticed that where you go to college, provided it was of a reasonable standard, means very little. I am not, for example, paying any portion of the $55K tuition of the school in my small town or any of its ilk.
    

    posted by : jonna on 7/13/2009 at 3:59 PM Flag For Abuse

45. I am the oldest of six.  I do not have a degree.  I do not feel slighted or devalued because my youngest brother does.  My next in line brother, the one 2 years younger than me, was accepted to MIT in his senior year of high school.  He threw up when they told him that it was $35000/per year.  That was my fathers annual salary.  He is a nuclear physicist, courtesy of the United States Navy.  I did end up going to community college for a couple of years, on my own dime, that and grants and loans.  I am ok with that, 25 years later.  I am ok with that because I found that I was studying for a career for which I am totally unsuitable.  I feel lucky that I found out before I had spent 100G's.  I had 3 kids.  I have been telling my children all of their lives that I will not be here forever, they must learn to fend for themselves.  They have to know how to balance a checkbook, fill out their taxes, and do a fsfa.  and they knew that if they wanted to go to college, that they would have to find funding.  I do not see a college education as a right.  Quite frankly, I have had my fill of degree holding twenty-somethings that are so full of themselves they are fit to burst, and haven't a clue about how the world actually works.  It will kick their ass someday.  I am watching my sone make something out of himself, by himself, which is what a man does.  He has become a fine man, a credit to himself.  My daughters know the value of a dollar and how to work for what they want.  If they never "achieve" anything more, I will die a proud and happy woman.  Everyone of my sibs are hardworking and productive citizens, and all of my children have followed suit.  Suzy feels guilty because her younger sibs had opportunities that her older ones did not.  Suzy, life isn't fair.  It is never going to be fair.  I am ok with that too.

    posted by : lalahem on 7/13/2009 at 4:14 PM Flag For Abuse

46. Can I say how glad I am to be Canadian?
    
    First, education is not nearly as expensive as it is in the United States.
    
    Second, there is a government program I can save up to $50,000 per child in a Registered Education Savings Plan and they are able to withrdraw the income on that investment at their own tax rate (which will probably mean it is tax free while they are a student). Also, for parents that use the RESP, the government will also top it up with up to $7,200 (as a percentage of what parents invest with low income families getting more than high income families). So our plan is to take full advantage of that program to try to save the $50,000 for each of our kids plus take the top-up from the government and the earnings on the investment. That will be what they have to pay for their education.
    
    Beyond that, they will need to earn the money themselves or get scholarships.
    

    posted by : Annie PhD in Parenting on 7/13/2009 at 4:18 PM Flag For Abuse

47. May I please just say for the record that I HATE the reverse classism all this stuff brings up?  There is the bootstrappin' working class folk who see all the privileged upper middle class kids and use this as their opportunity to bash them on Babble.  I say it is all out of jealousy.  I was lucky that my parents chose careers that made a lot of money and I have grown up in privilege.  I appreciate their work and sacrifice.  They paid for my school, then my grad school and I have used both degrees to make a name--and a happy life--for myself.  I am grateful.  I know I did nothing to "deserve" it and was lucky to be born into the family I was.  But I will not apologize for that and I get so sick of these "proudly blue collar" types knocking our choices.  It is so red state/blue state.  I am not privileged dropout.  I took the private schools, summer camps, SAT tutors and Ivy League education and I turned it into a successful and (semi) lucrative career.  Now 31, I no longer rely on my parents.  I will do the same for my two children and do not expect any less of them.  They pay for that privilege with success.  Period.  I do not feel bad about offering them the absolute best so they can make it. 
    

    posted by : privilegedandproud on 7/13/2009 at 4:30 PM Flag For Abuse

48. I'm surprised at how many parents on here bitch about how lazy and selfish the author is, rather than about how screwed up our higher education system is. It seems to me that the real problem is how much school costs and how much its price has gone up in relation to the average worker's yearly wage. Shouldn't we as parents be way more concerned about that than about what this particular woman does or doesn't do with her money? I shudder to think about how much college will cost when my grandkids want to go to school. One year at $200,000 at a top school, $50,000 for a lower school? Sounds ridiculous, but if tuition keeps rising the way that it is, is it really impossible?
    
    Besides that, since when is a college education a "right," which is how many parents treat it? I wish that there were more respect for trade schools and the like. Not everyone is cut out for a liberal arts education, and I don't think that there's anything wrong with that. The author is totally right when she says that not going to college is considered shameful by many people. I wish that would change, too, but I think that I ask too much.

     

    Great essay, Megan Francis!

    posted by : ChiLaura on 7/13/2009 at 4:50 PM Flag For Abuse

49. You know what? My parents didn't pay for my school, they aren't paying for my sister's, either. They helped out, though. I lived at home rent-free, they paid for the occasional bag of groceries once I moved out, and sometimes they treated me out to dinner. It taught me responsibility for my successes and failures. I have no interest in paying for my son's college. He's only seven months old right now, but he'll know it way ahead of time. My plan is to put half of any monetary gifts he recieves into a savings account that will be his when he turns 18. He can put it towards college or whatever he wants. By then, I just hope I'll have taught him well enough to be smart with it.

    posted by : coolteamblt on 7/13/2009 at 5:49 PM Flag For Abuse

50. @ privileged and proud: let's not be too quick to equate hard work with wealth.  Just as not every rich person worked hard for their wealth, not every poor person is in their economic situation because of laziness.  To suggest so is extremely insensitive.  Many people work their asses off every single day for a paltry sum which would never be enough to send even one child to college.

    posted by : dkh2 on 7/13/2009 at 6:07 PM Flag For Abuse

51. privilegedandproud - well, duh. Of course people without means are envious of those with. That's one of the reasons I worked so hard and chose the profession that I did - because I wanted to have more for myself and give my future family a privileged life. The problem is that so many people I have met that grew up in privilege just don't appreciate it. I say amen to you for appreciating what you have, but I wish I met more people with your attitude. I am tired of hearing people whine over every little thing they have to do because they think things should be taken care of for them. Or when they look down on me because I chose a lucrative profession, and that they chose more "noble" fields of study because they say they don't care about money as much as I do. It is easy to not care about money when you don't have to worry about it.
    And I actually consider myself privileged. My parents came to this country and worked hard so I could have a better life. I have opportunities they could only dream of. There are so many people who work hard everyday without anything to show for it (as dkh2 says).

    posted by : anon on 7/13/2009 at 6:32 PM Flag For Abuse

52. There are a lot of ways to 'help out" with your child's education.  I"m with the author of this piece - i also have a lot of children :) - but besides that, my husband and I worked our way through university - and graduated with a ton of debt which we paid off as quickly as we could, taking advantage of tax freezing, debt forgiveness etc - every government program we were entitled to - and my ex boyfriend, whose university was paid for, not only flunked his first year, but then his mom lost all the money she had put aside for him, as it was in one of those fakey "save for university" plans where if they fail, the money is all forfeit.  Crazy!It was hard but good to be an adult, to move out at 18, get my own little basement suite with a girlfriend, budget every quarter... it taught me everything i needed to know about being grown up (except the kids part!) - how to put off desires for needs, how to get by on less, pay your bills on time, and meanwhile, i had a blast.we are hoping to get all our children into a trade *before* university, if they don't know what they want to do.  That way, they can work as a plumber or electrician on weekends, and make enough to actually get through university with much less debt than a McD's kid flipping burgers (which is also a great start into the workforce!)...If they love their trade, hooray - if not, it's still a tool in their pocket.  Our kids are all very bright, and i think if you can't get *any* financial aid at all, you probably don't have the marks to make it in university.  Not everyone has to go!I'm in canada, though, and i think a lot of my peers look in incredulity at how pampered American teens are - not just paying for university, but the excessive proms, the dream weddings that people remortgage their houses over... i know it happens here, but it's still not the rule.Sooner or later, we all grow up - and there is no benefit in artificially keeping that butterfly in the chysalis.When i moved out, i was the second youngest in my program, but as my mom drove away, leaving me with a new shower curtain and a ton of groceries, in the apartment she helped me find - she said "This just feels right!"  and it did!

    posted by : mamazee73 on 7/13/2009 at 6:37 PM Flag For Abuse

53. Oy, privileged and proud, OY. I find it ironic that you bring up reverse classism and seemto take this personally and yet you say some pretty ... insensitive things, to put it mildly. "My parents chose careers ..." etc.
    
     If only it were that simple. As others said, do not mix up wealth with hard work. Or that by simply choosing the right career, you'll be wealthy. And further, I saw no one beating anyone up, and I would be considered among the current "privileged" group of which you speak. I'm not offended by anyone's comments but yours here.
    

    posted by : jonna on 7/13/2009 at 6:38 PM Flag For Abuse

54. This does not make much financial sense to me. You would not save up for your child to go to college, but if your child happened to be a genius and was interested in going to Harvard you would be willing to go get a loan to help pay for that??? HELLO what about saving up towards things instead of just running out and buying debt at an interest rate. I agree that getting a degree may not be the best way of getting a job in the future or the only way. I'm living proof of that. Looking towards my future, deciding if I should attend college or not I am discovering staying the position I am in instead of attending college and racking up debt, I will probably be making close to a college graduate in the same amount of time it would take me to complete college. Many of my co-workers have graduated from college, it freaks me out that I could have spent thousands of college on a college education to be in the same place I am now. However, when it comes to my daughter I don't want her to have to make that choice. I won't be able to pay for everything or Harvard but if she is interested in attending college I will do anything to make sure that can happen.
    
    The "if I can afford it" issue is b/s. If you cannot afford to save at least some money toward your children's futures then maybe you should take a serious look at your expenses. What is more important, cable TV or a college fund?
    

    posted by : Brooke Johnson on 7/13/2009 at 7:34 PM Flag For Abuse

55. Wait, what is this article doing in the 'Bad Parent' column?  I thought this column was all about pathetic attempts to make bad parenting decisions seem palatable.  I thought you were going to tell us about how pop tarts five times a day and cereal with coke is actually good for your kid.  Maybe you could write an article about how you love the fact that your kids hate each other.  This article is completely out of place because it is thoughtful and well written.  Thank you for your mistake.

    posted by : jojo44 on 7/13/2009 at 7:37 PM Flag For Abuse

56. Jonna, you are just a liberal apologist, it is quite clear. 
    

    posted by : privilegedandproud on 7/13/2009 at 9:27 PM Flag For Abuse

57. privilegedandstupid, you are just an idiot, it is quite clear.
    

    posted by : Cramit on 7/13/2009 at 9:44 PM Flag For Abuse

58. Interesting article. A couple of comments. You imply that it is silly for a parent to not want their kids to work during college so they can immerse themselves in the college experience. I worked a lot through college, and in a lot of ways it helped me appreciate my degree more. However, I went to a very competitive school and it was very hard for me to keep up with the students who did not have to work on the side. I don't know which way is better. I am certainly not complaining - I really appreciated my experience. However, it is not all about partying.
    
    Also, you mention going to trade school as a viable option. I don't pretend to know about all the trades out there, but my father went to trade school and was able to provide for us. However, he tells me now that all the new people in his job that his company hires are engineers. They are not letting anyone go, but as the people without engineering degrees leave/retire, they are replacing them with engineers. He says he is glad that he is close to retirement because there will soon be no place for people without college degrees is his line of work.

    posted by : Laure68 on 7/13/2009 at 11:05 PM Flag For Abuse

59. I think middle class parents have substituted feeling that going to college is a "right" for the hope that their children will have a better quality of life.  For so many jobs that lead to a career, a college education is a bare requirement.  The "right" to go to college is the "right" to pursue your dreams, and for better or for worse, by not going to college you run the risk of closing a lot of doors.  And ChiLaura is right - just what have these universities been spending their money on that they justify such rampant inflation?

    posted by : NoHo Mom on 7/14/2009 at 12:07 AM Flag For Abuse

60. Wonderful essay!  I agree with everything the author said.  Paying my way through college did motivate me.  It made me work harder in my classes since it was on my dime.  I learned time management, made contacts in the field of my choice and did not waste time or money partying all of the time.  I really grew up.  All of my siblings went to college and my mom borrowed a bit here and there to cover a few expenses but for the most part all four of us paid our own way.  A lawyer, a doctor, a scientist and a photojournalist.  Not too shabby for 4 kids who had to work parttime or full time most of the time they were in school.  One reason my mom, a single parent, was unable to help much with our education was she was paying for her own.  She has three degrees so far.  All earned while working full time and raising four children on her own.   We learned from her example.

    posted by : Ali on 7/14/2009 at 12:40 AM Flag For Abuse

61. I graduated from a private high school in 1994. I spent the whole time understanding that I needed to get the grades to be offered scholaships. My parents spent the money for the private school tuition for me & my sister knowing that we would get a bettereducation and be eligible for more merit-based scholarships than if we attended our local public schools. (I'll give you a hint, my state is always in the bottom 5 in the country)
    I graduated with honors, 2 full scholarships to the 2 big state 4-year schools, and a 1/2 tuition scholarship to a private college. You know what I chose to do? Work as a waitress for 10 years, then a police dispatcher for 5. I am now working full time and putting myself through nursing school. And raising a family. And yes, I have loans. To get my RN (ASN) I'll accrue less than $30K in loans, not grants - about half of what I stand to make per year with my degree. I'll have 10 years to pay it off. And I'm ready to do the college thing right now - I'm mature enough and have my priorities straight. I'm also very proud that I'm doing it for myself, that no one handed it to me (I was proud to get the scholarships, but I knew I wasn't ready to go to college. I needed to figure out what I wanted to do so as not to waste the time and money).
    My sister got scholarships in 1996 to a private college, worked, lived at home, took student loans, and my parents took loans. I think they'll be done paying them off in the next year. She uses her degree and was hired by the college she attended. My husband finished his B.S. and M.S. on the GI Bill, both while working full time. My BIL took loans and finished his B.S. last year while working full time.
    We invested in the pre-paid tuition program our state has for our 2 older children (13 and 8). I've already tried to explain to the older one that she should work hard in school to get scholarships - when the economy tanked those pre-paid programs lost a LOT. We haven't decided what to do for the 3 year old. I'm thinking a mayonaise jar...

    posted by : plan all you want on 7/14/2009 at 1:33 AM Flag For Abuse

62. The vast amount of parents don't pay for college. Crippling student debt is a testament to that.  Not out of choice but most people can barely afford to pay their mortgage on time. I know my parents couldn't. And I never dreamed it was a possibility. So, there is no bad parenting here.
    
    That being said this article seemed lacking a lot of actual knowledge and information. Dismissing off hand the idea of preventing debt doesn't own up to the fact that debt today is crippling most college graduates. I went to all state schools. My current debt is $112,000 and I am mostly lucky to  pay off interest. I worked the whole way through. Not part time, either. But like most people who work that went to my needs. It did nothing to mitigate my college expenses. And since I didn't have a degree, yet, I wasn't making much. Getting a job and working your way through is basically a fairy tale today unless you have significant help with scholarships.
    
    And lets not forget if you have income than you are hurting your children's chances of getting grants. Your income and savings count against them even if you don't plan on putting a penny toward it. This whole article had the ring of someone who has never filled out a fafsa.
    
    I see nothing wrong with being a plumber or carpenter or hairdresser or anything else. Neither of my parents went to college and most of my high school friends didn't either. But you have to understand that these fields aren't exactly bursting with demand and it takes a certain amount of skill. Everyone without a degree wants those jobs.Your child is more likely to be a sales clerk for minimum wage than a plumber unless they are actually good with their hands. Entry level jobs like receptionists, secretaries, mail room etc. often require college degrees now. You can't say my child doesn't need college she will be a plumber and have that solve anything. Its just not that easy.
    
    I don't think the article was wrong. I don't think not paying for college is bad parenting. I just don't think parents should entertain fictions about the ease of paying for college through loans and hard work or the availability of good paying jobs that don't require an education. Even crappy jobs require some degree now.
    

    posted by : Cheruth on 7/14/2009 at 1:48 AM Flag For Abuse

63. College seems like such a scam... ever expanding, prices ever increasing, subsidized by state supported savings plan schemes that have ridiculous restrictions...  They've pushed this myth that all you need is higher education to be successful - that everyone needs higher education.  Bullcrap!  That is why the costs are so inflated.  Everyone from every background has to go, or they're a failure.  It's everyone saving since before the baby's born that allows such ridiculous tuitions to skyrocket.  It's called enabling.  The price wouldn't be so high if people stopped paying it.
    
    I have no interest in sending my kid off to college to learn how to drink and be promiscuous.  I went to college.  That is what you learn - the classes are just in the background.  The older students there - the ones seeking higher education, not just an extension of their responsibility-free youth - they took classes seriously.  Most of my friends dropped or got kicked out at worst, graduated in five or six years at best.  They were at college because it was the next stop.  One with no curfew and lots of booze.
    
    Are there worthwhile things about college?  Absolutely.  But only if those attending are focused and mature enough to take advantage of them.  The degree itself doesn't mean all that much.  A good work ethic and some smarts will get you far, and they don't teach that in college.  I'd rather pony up the cash for my kid to have a house, and let them pursue an education on their terms.  Let them get a leg up on the college crowd by getting four (or five or six) years of marketplace experience under their belt.  They can always go back to school if they need a degree.
    
    I loved college.  Truly enjoyed it.  But it didn't prepare me for the world worth a damn.  Four years of living with all of the benefits of my parents' paychecks, and none of the rules.  And none of the responsibility of adulthood.  I succeeded at college.  I graduated with high honors.  Phi Beta Kappa, even.  I value education.  But it didn't prepare me for the world any more than some other post high school experience could.  Travel abroad, join the military, strike out to a new city on your own.  It's about finding yourself.  The education thing can be done any time.  The Brits have the right idea with the gap year.
    
    I cringe at how Bush and Obama are destroying our nation and economy in an attempt to slow down the impending economic crash.  One of the biggest explanations for TARP?  If the credit markets freeze up, kids won't be able to go to college.  You trash the whole damn country so Johnny can do jello shots and beer bongs!? 
    

    posted by : relrev on 7/14/2009 at 3:17 AM Flag For Abuse

64. Relrev, Your experience is not the universal experience. My parents helped me pay for college, though I took out student loans as well. I worked the entire time I was there, and valued both my time in the classroom, my paid job and my unpaid internships. I balanced all three, graduated with honors, and loved every bit of my college experience. I went to a great school in a huge city and it certainly prepared me for the real world more than staying at home with my parents, working at a job where I barely have to think all day, would. College is not the be all end all, but it opens doors and at the end you have a choice. You can go to grad school, learn a trade, get on a professional track... That's just not the case if you decide not to go to college. And just so you know, most people wouldn't get to "explore" and travel abroad during a gap year. Most of us would have to find a retail or service job and spend the year living at home, esentially an extension of our high school lives. Sorry, but I don't really see the value in delaying the real world unless you aren't ready for it.

    posted by : Audra on 7/14/2009 at 10:17 AM Flag For Abuse

65. Amen!
    
    Wonderful piece. I have a my masters, my husband has his ph.d, we have 3 sons and we don't plan on paying for college for any of them unless we've got our retirement secured first and our house paid off. The oldest child was recently awarded a full ride scholarship to a local university, so we haven't had to deal with the judgement about not paying for him. The second son is in high school and is totally unmotivated. He loves the arts, hates to study and he will have to deal with those consequences when it comes time to think about college. I would have NO problem at all with any of my sons going to a trade school or a community college (and I work in higher education at a private liberal arts college).
    
    

    posted by : Monkey on 7/14/2009 at 11:03 AM Flag For Abuse

66. Relrev I think has part of it right - in terms of fulfillment and meaning, a college degree might not get you much, depending on how you approach it and what you get out of it.  But I think it gets you insurmountably much in looking for a job.  Having that piece of paper - no matter what you got from the experience - gives you a major advantage in almost any job, and an opportunity to advance that is unfortunately denied to those without that piece of paper even if they are more qualified.  I've seen this in my own family.  That's why I want my kids to have that piece of paper - so they'll have the ability to earn enough money to support themselves - whether they get much out of the college experience or not.
    

    posted by : leahsmom on 7/14/2009 at 11:36 AM Flag For Abuse

67. This is a great article, and one that absolutely belongs in "Bad Parent." I totally disagree with the premise, but it was worth reading.
    
    And yet ... I totally disagree.
    
    I agree with the "school of hard knocks" principle. Kids shouldn't just spend their summers being shuffled between exclusive summer camps, prestigious internships, and trips to Europe. They should flip burgers, wash cars, and learn what it means to work for your money.
    
    BUT, parents need to support aspirations, too. They need to say, there's another life out there, and if you work for it, we'll support you. If not, kids, like millions of kids whose parents don't have the choices this author seems to, will settle for less, and less, and less.
    
    It's one thing to stand over your kid and insist that he/she practice that instrument and keep on practicing it, and don't even think about video games. But then, when the kid DOES practice, you need to fork over the tuition for that music camp. It's one thing to insist that the science homework be done, and be done right, but then you need to help your child navigate the hurdles of signing up for that cool volunteer EMT program.
    
    It seems instead that this mom is participating against the backlash against the helicopter parent phenomenon, which is a much-needed backlash, IMO, but she's using the backlash to justify some pretty extreme selfishness on her own part.
    
    Sorry, but children learn by example. If you're selfish toward your children, you will raise selfish children. And you'll have no one to blame but yourself.
    

    posted by : Mira on 7/14/2009 at 12:22 PM Flag For Abuse

68. There appears to be a theme here that kids NEED to go to college to be happy, financially sound, fullfilled, etc. and that we need to pay for college to give them that.  We need to make sure our kids have the tools to do that which they like and have the ability to do.  If college is what makes them fulfilled, then the debt is secondary.  If it is vocational school, an apprenticeship, the militaty or starting their own business, then they should receive our guidance in those pursuits.  We as a society have bought into the myth that college is the only way to become successful.  The idea of college for all has so watered down the pool of professionals that an advanced degree is now necessary to stand out.
    
    I am the author's brother.  I have 2 masters degrees in business that I paid for myself (still paying for), and I have a sibling with a bachelors that she paid for herself.  I have 2 siblings that have some college, but no degrees.  Looking at the 4 of us, the 2 that have created their own path seem to be much more satisfied in their professional lives and I know are more financially successful.  Take a guess as to which Meagan is.  Meagan's kids and mine can look at the role models in our family and decide where their futures lie knowing that they can be successful either way. 
    
    It seems to me we need to be more concerned with those aspects of life that Meagan talked about, such as teaching our kids compassion and how to put food on the table then making sure our kids are richer (financially) than we are.  Meagan's kids and mine can look at the role models in our family and decide where their futures lie knowing that they can be successful either way with work and the support of their familys. 
    
    

    posted by : buckofthenorth on 7/14/2009 at 12:26 PM Flag For Abuse

69. My parents made it clear that we would have to take care of ourselves once we graduated, and make our own decisions about our future, and I'm very glad that they did. They didn't kick us out, but we had to get jobs, have a plan for the future- something. It's easy to be envious of those kids who seemed to have everything given to them, but when I see the consequences of parents who cater to their kids and give them everything they want, the envy soon wanes.
    
    I worked part time and went to a community college where I had a partial scholarship, took the classes that I wanted and got an associates degree. I now work as a buyer at an electrical firm. The irony is that my boss has two "children" who are the same ages as my brother and I- 25 and 27. He is still paying for their education, board, and even food, happy in the delusion that once they've gotten a degree, they'll finally be happy and successful. He constantly complains about how he doesn't have any money, but somehow fails to realize that he's enabled them to live off of him long past the time when they should have been turned out on their own.
    
    The assumption that a 4-year college degree is the only path to success is one that constantly irritates me- a willingness to learn and common sense is really what employers want to see. As an honor student in high-school with no desire to pursue such a thing, I was ridiculed by teachers and guidance counselors for "wasting" my intelligence. But I live in a college town, and I can see the results of such "intelligence", and I'm glad that my parents didn't make that eventuality easy for my sister, brother and I. Just because college costs has risen doesn't mean that they're any more effective at guaranteeing happiness and success- because those promises, despite what society tells us, do not come with higher education.
    
    I plan on raising my child with the same mentality that my parents had- 'they're smart, they can do anything they put their minds to- with or without a degree'.
    

    posted by : songbird516 on 7/14/2009 at 12:27 PM Flag For Abuse

70. We do intend to help our twins go to college if that is what they want.  Whether that help will be financial or some other kind of support remains to be seen.  We certainly would not want to bankrupt ourselves and have nothing to retire on.  A small college fund, and assistance finding financial aid may have to be enough.  We are just not rich people and I do not think we could afford to pay 100% for two million dollar educations at the same time.  I don't think that makes us bad parents.
    

    posted by : Marj on 7/14/2009 at 1:37 PM Flag For Abuse

71. My husband and his sister are the children of professors. They were given some help with college, but not in any way that would bankrupt their parents. They are now both in their 40s, self-sufficient professionals with graduate degrees.
    His cousins were given zero help "on principle." One has finally managed to graduate at the age of 35. She has limited job options because she's starting her  career so late. 
    I don't think college  or help with college is mandatory, but making people "work for something" doesn't always teach them a lesson, sometimes it holds them back from reaching their full potential.
    If you raise kids with middle class expectations and goals you should help them achieve them.
    I think there's a middle ground here.
    
    
    
    

    posted by : we all need help sometimes on 7/14/2009 at 3:44 PM Flag For Abuse

72. You have said everything my husband and I think about paying for our kids' college.

    posted by : toomuchstrong on 7/14/2009 at 5:11 PM Flag For Abuse

73. Iulia Lactans, since you responded to me directly, I will reply.  It sounds like you had a really great situation:  worked your way through college, with zero parental help, zero loans, got great grades, and traveled all the while enjoying outside interests, graduating with no debt.  (I did too, minus all the apparent free time).  I'm glad that was your experience, but with your worldliness and education, surely you realize it was fairly unique.  If your situation were the norm, and it were easy to replicate that for even a reasonable number of others, there would hardly be so many other heartfelt replies here about the struggles and debt that most undergo to attend college and/or graduate school.  Most parents (along with their college-bound children) do a great deal of planning, saving, and sacrificing to see that their children have the best educational and professional opportunities, whatever those opportunities may be based on their abilities, aspirations, etc., rather than cavelierly assume that their children will easily obtain all that has come your way.

    posted by : mom to one on 7/14/2009 at 5:31 PM Flag For Abuse

74. justification justification justification I'M SELFISH AND DON'T FEEL BAD ABOUT IT justification justification justification
    

    posted by : not convinced on 7/14/2009 at 6:40 PM Flag For Abuse

75. Mom to one, thank you for your kind reply.  I regret having come across as cavalier and I do recognize that my situation is unique.  I just wanted people who were feeling hopeless about paying for their children's college to realize that there are alternatives to parental help and student loans when it comes to their children's higher education.
    
    My time in university was difficult, to be sure.  It was very intense.  I had no real free time to pursue outside interests.  All the friends I made in college were people I worked with or studied with.  The traveling I did was under the guise of the university: study abroad programs or working as a research lackey for professors.  Even my now husband was a colleague that was teaching the same undergraduate course that I was.  So everything but everything was about school during that time.  There was no partying and no spring break vacations.  But it was glorious!  I don't feel I deserve anyone's pity for having been so crazy busy while I was a student.  I was lucky, as you have already pointed out.
    
    That's why I don't see having to put oneself through school as a fate I need to save my own kids from.  From my point of view, paying for my children to attend university might actually handicap them.  I understand, though, that others had a different experience in college, which is as real to them as mine is to me, and so they feel differently about paying for their kids to go to college.
    
    
    

    posted by : iulia lactans on 7/14/2009 at 6:40 PM Flag For Abuse

76. As the product of a single mom, I had to pay for my college entirely on my own. Because of this, I am 23 and STILL pursuing my bachelors degree, but it's teaching me a valuable lesson. I'm working diligently, holding 2 jobs, and receiving scholarships and grants to help cover costs. Student loans are making up the difference and I know I'll graduate at least 25k in debt.
    
    I would love to be able to foot the bill for my almost 3 year old's college education in 15 years however, I don't want to. My husband and I will HELP him, but he will have to work to save money and prove to us that he values his education as much as we do. The last thing I want is for my hard earned money to be wasted on booze and frivolous excess.
    
    Do I want him to have a great college experience? Absolutely, and we will help him as much as we can. I'm not going to let him struggle with 2 jobs and eating ramen on a nightly basis. But by not writing him the blank check that so many parents are willing to do for their kids, I feel like we will teach him about carefully planning what school to attend, working hard to get good grades and receive merit scholarships, and overall feeling like he worked for his education and it wasn't just handed to him.
    
    In the end, each parent can do whatever they want for their kid, but by letting them have a completely free ride, they will most likely never appreciate it as much..
    

    posted by : xMaureenx on 7/14/2009 at 11:07 PM Flag For Abuse

77. I also put myself through college with scholarships and student loans.  I worked part time throughout the school year, went to summer school and worked full time, and graduated in 3 years.  I also did my fair share amount of partying.  Were there parties I missed out on because I was babysitting or working?  Absolutely.  Did I wish at the time that I could go?   I honestly can't remember...I'm sure I did, but now, it is long forgotten.  Was I envious of my roommates whose parents footed their bill and gave them spending cash.  Yes.  But now in hindsight, I am the person I am because of it.   I learned work/life balance at an early age and having student loans motivated me to get a job.  I knew I wouldn't be able to pay them back without working.  I grew up with a single mom, and her paying for college was never an option but that college itself was an option.  I began high school knowing full well that my only ticket there would be through grades, activities, and hard work.  So, at the ripe age of 14, I was essentially having to work for my future. 
    I look back at my college experience and it was wonderful.  I don't remember missing anything, although I'm sure I felt that way at 18 or 19.. I loved the author's mention of eating top ramen and looking for something cheap and fun to do with her time.  Those were good days for me as well, filled with hope of the future and knowing that my life would be what I made of it.  Also, because I was financially responsible for my education, I was free to explore any and all of my options without parents influencing me.  If I chose to get a "useless" degree...so be it.  I didn't because I knew I'd have to pay it back...
    Anyway, I think those who want to bear this burden entirely for their children are in a sense doing them a disservice.  I would never have learned what I did without my experience and I fully intend on doing the same with my kids. 
    

    posted by : earn it yourself on 7/15/2009 at 10:34 AM Flag For Abuse

78. Our current president is proof that hard work and a dedication to getting an education can lead to a rewarding and successful career, even if mom and dad can't pick up the whole tab. 
    My husband and I (and our three siblings) both worked hard in h.s. to get scholarships and grants to cover our in-state tuition. We continued to work p/t through college and live with our parents until we graduated. Our parents helped where they could, mostly paying for books, car insurance, and the like, but they did not pay our tuition. It took us both a little longer to graduate (we both took a few quarters off to work full time and then to travel some), but we both had 4-year degrees by the age of 22 and graduated with 3.0 gpas and minimal debt. My husband went on to get two more degrees, which we paid for entirely ourselves. 
    We are opting to pay for our children's private elementary and h.s. in order to give them the best foundation we possibly can. When they graduate h.s, we fully expect them to get a higher education- be it a college degree, a trade certificate or an art degree. We will help where we can, but will NOT go into debt or spent our retirement income on a fancy undergraduate school.

    posted by : terram on 7/15/2009 at 11:28 AM Flag For Abuse

79. terram - I have a question about your comment. You say you won't pay for a fancy undergraduate school, but you are paying for private K-12. In our area, private school tuition is that that far off from private college tuition, and one has to pay for 12 years. Unless the public schools in your area are absolutely awful, I'm not sure I see the logic in this.
    
    In my experience, kids who go to public school get as good a foundation as those who go to private - in some cases better. Like I said, I don't know where you live, so maybe that makes a difference. Still, it seems like you will be going into much more debt this way.

    posted by : Laure68 on 7/15/2009 at 11:37 AM Flag For Abuse

80. This article is so well written and so interesting that I really enjoyed reading it. Honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about the whole hard-knocks p.o.v. I paid for 20% of my college education (at an Ivy League school), which was really hard -- it meant using every penny of savings I had, working at least two jobs (book store jobs and babysitting) and counting every dime. I never had furniture besides milk crates. Was it character building? Probably. Do I want my kids to have that kind of stress? I don't know. But I also got an unbelievably incredible education, I was totally motivated (because *I* was paying for it), and I feel grateful to my parents for paying the 40% each (they were divorced and this is how they divided things up) so that I could attend my dream school and get such a good education... So, I'm on the fence. Thanks for writing about this Meagan!!
    

    posted by : Jennifer Margulis on 7/15/2009 at 3:17 PM Flag For Abuse

81. My parents paid for 100% of my college education, and I am eternally grateful for that. Deeply deeply grateful. I am 41 years old and I still thank my father for it. He made extraordinary sacrifices for me and my siblings -- not just college expense but private school from pre-school through 12 to boot. The reason I am so grateful to him (and my mother for that matter who made large sacrifices as well) is that is was gift, not an obligation. I consider it above and beyond the call of duty.
    
    I hope to be able to give my children the same gift. But if I can't, I will not feel like a failure, or like I have shirked some mandate from the heavens.  I think that's the author's point. You do what you can and make the decision rationally based on  your financial circumstances. Impoverishing yourself to a degree that might make you dependent on your children in old age -- and remember we are likely to live longer than our parents -- may not be doing them a favor in the long run.
    
    
    

    posted by : chatty daddy on 7/15/2009 at 6:01 PM Flag For Abuse

82. I would never make the choice not to save for my children's education, unless it became financially impossible.  Three reasons:

    1.  Because the government pays you to save for your children's education.  529 plans subsidize savings for children's education, then allow that subsidized contribution to grow tax-free until used.  Over time, the amount the government gives you by saving in these plans will grow enormously.  In the event the funds don't get used for education, they can be withdrawn with a tax "penalty" for whatever purpose the grantor chooses.
    
    2.  Working full time in college is an unhappy distraction.  I say this from experience.  I worked full time to pay for the bulk of my undergraduate education, meaning life was grueling at times. 
    
    3.  Opportunity.  I was Ivy material and, in one sunny morning in the fall of 1985, was shown that my parents had saved a total of less than one year's tuition to any Ivy league school for my entire college fund.  So I went instead to a (very good) state school to stretch those dollars and worked to make up the difference.  I want my son to have options that were cut off to me because my parents did not save enough.
    

    posted by : bakerjake on 7/15/2009 at 6:23 PM Flag For Abuse

83. I think bakerjake's perspective here is informative ... I have found that my friends who had to pay their way through college are more adamant about saving for their own children's education than those who did not have to pay. Telling.
    

    posted by : chatty daddy on 7/16/2009 at 10:06 AM Flag For Abuse

84. very well written. my mother kicked her ass to send me to school. all i wanted to do was move to new york city and write, cook, take up odd jobs here and there, and most importantly, travel. I wanted to live. I wanted to learn through life. Unfortunately, she had other plans for me. So i went to school in new york, owe $42,000 in student loans (the entire cost of my education was $120,000. She paid for most out of pocket). I got my degree in Advertising which has yet to be used. After I finished school I stayed in nyc, and worked. Soon after I got married, and have a beautiful son. But i'm a housewife (and God willing will be able to stay that way till he goes off to grade school) and when I go back to work I am going to do something I really love. My sister wanted to stay @ home and go to state school. My mother made her go away and in her last year of college she got pregnant. (YIPES!) Needless to say my mother is furious because she's spent $80,000 (not inclusive of student loans) on my sisters education only for her to move back home, & switch her specialty from pharmacy to nursing,. She's learned her lesson with my brother (her youngest) and is allowing him to make his own educational choices. He has decided to go to a cheap in state school so he will come out debt free. He's even gotten scholarships to cover the very low cost of school, and he is living at home. 
    
    
    I knew that the only way to acheive my dream of living in Manhattan and finding my niche was by going to school there. I knew my mother would pay for it. Had I tried to stay @ home and save money from work to move to Manhattan, my mother would have kicked me out. All I wanted was a foot in the door, not a degree. I knew that in the industry I am interested in experience and first hand knowledge is more important than sitting in class. My sister wanted a degree and knew that the only way to get it was by going to the school of my mothers choosing, now she is in quite a mess.
    
    
    
    The point i am trying to make is that people do what they want to get where they want in life. There is no point in spending boku-bucks on college when your kid wants to travel, go to in state school, or get a trade. You cannot fester all the hopes and dreams you had for yourself on your children. You will more than likely be very disappointed, and they will resent it.

    posted by : let your kids live on 7/16/2009 at 11:01 AM Flag For Abuse

85. My parents (decidedly blue-collar but wise with their money) agreed to pay for as much college as they could, and between my parents, loans, scholarships, and me working my butt off we managed to pay for a four-year private college.  I also took advantage of local programs through my high school and came into college with enough credits to graduate early, which saved a lot of money. 
    
    The catch to my parents paying was that I had to sign a (binding, notarized) contract agreeing to maintain a 3.3 GPA or upon graduation I would be expected to pay back every. last. cent. my parents spent on my education.  Hell of a motivator--under those terms I graduated with a 3.7 while holding down two jobs and volunteering.
    
    I think the key is appreciation and hard work.  My parents made it clear that they would not have extended the offer of college if they didn't think I would work hard and show gratitude.  When my daughter is of age, I will extend her the same opportunity--if she has proven she has the maturity and work ethic to deserve said opportunity.
    

    posted by : dmkm on 7/16/2009 at 1:42 PM Flag For Abuse

86. College costs are the next bubble ... they have grown at a huge amount each semester.  something has to give.   And they've been financed by a lot of people taking mortgages out on their homes (with their false equity) to pay.  Colleges need to slim down, reduce the ridiculous # of requirements, and stop admitting so many people.  Not everyone should go to college.  Our country would do better creating internship/apprenticeship programs for a variety of degrees.  Think beyond the status quo ...
    
    So ... you save what you can and ... we'll see what happens years from now.  There is no way on earth the cost of an education can increase 10% a semester for the next 16 years ...
    
    And I agree with many here who wrote that a lot of students I met, who had their education paid in full by parents, just didn't appreciate what they had.  4 year party ....
    
    

    posted by : j1525 on 7/17/2009 at 12:35 PM Flag For Abuse

87. @buckofthenorth - I wish that I had your confidence that college was not necessary in order to have a career that enabled you to meet your responsibilities and put food on the table!  In my family, the folks without college degrees have struggled, earned less, had more difficult lives than those without.  I don't believe that college is for everyone - and I certainly agree that you don't need it to have a satisfying life! But I haven't seen, in practice, the possibility of financial security without one.  Do you have any resources you could suggest where I could learn more about opportunities like that, or how to help family without degrees?
    

    posted by : leahsmom on 7/17/2009 at 1:24 PM Flag For Abuse

88. @dmkm: I appreciate your parents involvement and the signed document, but take credit for your accomplishments. You graduated with a 3.7, not a 3.31 (3.4). Graduating just above the cut off would mean that it was a motivating factor... graduating with a 3.7 means that you took an investment in your schooling!
    

    posted by : College is the way to go on 7/17/2009 at 5:18 PM Flag For Abuse

89. My husband and I have gone to the top schools of the northeast and have paid most, if not all, of the tuition ourselves.  He's a retinal surgeon and I, a special education teacher, turned SAHM.  The fact that we were responsible for the tuition did not deter us from attending the schools of our choice.  Paying our own way allowed us freedom to be whomever we wanted to be, without the guilt or resentment of being who our parents envisioned.  As for our children, we'll cross the bridge when we get there, but we can say for sure there isn't going to be free ride.  Things are always more meaningful when they're earned.

    posted by : tipytop on 7/17/2009 at 5:21 PM Flag For Abuse

90. I taught at a high school in a district (Santa Ana) where kids, not parents, had to make these choices everyday. As far as their parents were concerned, they got them to the a place where they could receive high school diplomas, with some of them being the first in their families. Were they helping with their kids' college careers? Hell, no! (Or at least the vast majority weren't.)
    
    I watched as my cream-of-the-crop students, who suffered through full AP loads, 4.0+ GPAs, extracurricular activities galore, AND were considered "low-income," got accepted to Ivy after Ivy and had to turn them down because the financial packages didn't come. That was heartbreaking. But they didn't care (much). Instead, they investigated two-year junior colleges and wrote letters to the universities that accepted them, asking to be waived admission until their junior years. Talk about a character builder ...
    
    

    posted by : MissSea on 7/18/2009 at 9:03 AM Flag For Abuse

91. I'm 22, graduated last year from UCLA, and yes, I paid for everything myself. And by everything, my mom gave me $20 the day I moved into the dorms (which I paid for with a combination of aid, loans, merit scholarships, workstudy and credit cards), and $50 for both Christmas and my birthday. I checked out my books from the library and used those computers too. I skipped breakfast and instead ate the fruit I snuck out of the cafeteria the night before. I walked everywhere and grocery shopped for essensals vs buying them at overpriced campus stores, and feel like I got to "experience" college just fine- yes, I drank and partied, but I still pulled straight As, took two more classes than recommeded each quarter, switched my major my senior year, and added a minor two quarters before graduating. I was also able to study abroad in Oxford, and lived there for 5 months, visiting 11 different countries with just $1800. It's easy to skip that pizza when you know you'll be paying the next 10 years for it! YES, I have debit- around $13,000. But, I also worked as a banker at a large, well known bank my senior year in college and got a promotion to management as a result after college. I graduted a year early because I could not afford to waste time or money, and I don't believe my mom was obligated in any fashion to help pay for MY education. I actually feel bad for my friends who didn't work and didn't pay for themselves- most of them now do not have a job, and have never learned to live in the "real world."
    

    posted by : ParisChick on 7/22/2009 at 8:54 PM Flag For Abuse

92. well, if, during high school, the student refused to wake up, was late for 9am classes, skipped classes, never brought home a book in four years, always went to tutoring the week before progress reports to make extra credit, faked injuries to his team-mates so that ineligibility for games was due to injury and not bad grades, and so forth, i don't feel like there is much hope for change. during his senior year he stopped working, and his dad feels that since he 'doesn't have a job' we should help. well, it's mid-july, tuition is coming up, and it's my fault, and that of my savings and retirement, that he didnt have a job his whole entire senior year???? his girlfriend gives him everything he wants. why would he want to work? maybe she should foot the bill on his tuition, too. i dont see him working hard at school, if he doesnt have to pay for it. i agree with parischick. get real. get into the real world.

    posted by : musicbaby63 on 7/23/2009 at 12:34 PM Flag For Abuse

93. I never normally post anything about articles I've read but I felt I needed to comment on this one:
    
    A few points don't make any sense to me:
    
    1. The statement that the author has "sacrified her body, free time, career advancement, and much of her cash" for her five kids: This is not a sacrifice. Mother Theresa sacrificed her life to help others. Many have sacrificed their lives to protect their beliefs. What the author is talking about isn't sacrifice. It's called parental responsibility. No one asked her to have kids, let alone five. She brought them into this world and is responsible for providing them with the necessities of life. If all of these other things were really that important, why did she have kids in the first place?
    
    2. The idea that kids who pay for their own education will act less entitled and be more financially literate than those who don't: If that were the case I don't think that the nation would be in the situation it is in. People would have bought homes they could afford and would be living within their means since I'm sure a large number of them paid for school on their own. Debt doesn't make you smarter or more responsible. Just look around. I don't know where that idea comes from. Set aside money for your kids from the time they are born and I can assure you that helping them to graduate debt free won't be as much of an issue as it is for those who left it too late.
    
    3. The idea that college/university degrees are the only way to success: Hard work and motivation is what makes people successful and if you don't have it, you won't be - doesn't matter if you're a Phd or a plumber.
    
    If people want to pay for their kids' education that's great. Plan for it. If they don't, then don't but I don't think there's anything to be proud of when you're talking about deliberately allowing your kids to get into debt. You have no way of knowing what the future will bring and whether or not they'll even be able to work to pay it off (ie: they could get into an accident and be unable to work). I think people need to be more thoughtful about the big picture here.

    posted by : memyself33 on 8/1/2009 at 9:09 PM Flag For Abuse

94. While I don't expect that a parent should foot the entire bill for his kid's college education these days, I can't have much respect for a parent who congratulates himself/herself on paying for none of it. Higher education is so important. Not only does it enable most people to learn more throughout their lives, but it also enriches their lives in intangible ways. I think a college education should be financed in a variety of ways--through work by the student himself, through scholarships and loans, and through help by supportive parents. That help might be in the form of giving them a place to stay or buying them a clunker so they can get to and from school instead of paying for tuition and books, but I think a parent that does not want to help in some way is shirking his job. There are certain responsibilities that come with parenthood, and some of them are financial.
    

    posted by : oldfogey on 8/2/2009 at 4:51 PM Flag For Abuse

95. I think that the biggest issue here is not the fact that parents do/don't pay for college, but the fact that the author of this piece is flat out REFUSING to pay for college for her kids.  From reading the article, it seems to have nothing to do with the number of children she has, nor a lack of funds. It just seems like she does not want to pay for their college, and then she states a bunch of reasons why she feels justified in her decision. 
    
    As a parent myself, I could never see myself flat out refusing to pay for my children's college; however, we are not rolling in it, and I have put aside what I can for the future; however, I am praying that my children will be geniuses who get scholarships :) But I would do everything in my power to help my child, and if I had the cash, it would be theirs. 
    
    To sum it up, I would never deny my children any opportunity, provided that I can actually give it to them.  Keeping 'my cash' for myself?  Never.  But making the impossible come true?  Well, that is a bit harder.  But you can bet that you will see me in 10 year old clothes and driving an old clunker before you will see my children denied financial support that they need.  How can a mother deny her own children?
    

    posted by : mykidsaremyworld on 8/3/2009 at 12:14 AM Flag For Abuse

96. I personally think you are very selfish. Your kids didn't ask to be born, and, even if you don't foot the entire bill for their education, you owe them some support. I'm glad I don't know you.
    
    Did it ever occur to you to have one or two instead of five?
    

    posted by : amanda34 on 8/3/2009 at 4:42 PM Flag For Abuse

97. Wow - clearly some passionate responses here. I wanted to reply because I agree with the author and actually put myself through college with grants, scholorships, and student loans. I think I am all the stronger a person because of it as it really allowed me the opportunity to become an adult and actually work for something. I went to school with far too many people who were there with their parents paying for everything and they didn't get the same value I did. An additional observation / tip - my mother refused to be listed for parent loans, and that worked to my advantage as the financial aid offices work off of total need. As they couldn't turn to my mother for a loan, they were forced to look for funds elsewhere, which they found in a grant / i.e. funds that do not have to be paid back.
    
    I do plan to save for my children's education and will freely admit that, however I highly recognize the importance of not sacraficing in other areas to be able to do so, most of all that being my retirement. I plan to save for both, but if I could only afford one, it would be retirement.

    posted by : Shane P on 8/4/2009 at 12:57 AM Flag For Abuse

98. Why do people have children they can't afford? It's so selfish. I come from  family with 5 kids as well, which in my opinion is way to many. We didn't have a lot growing up including a college education. I have done great with my life despite this fact BUT I feel that my parents failed me, failed all of us!
    I am about to have my first and only child because right now he's the only one I can afford and that INCLUDES a college education.
    
    

    posted by : amsush on 8/4/2009 at 8:36 AM Flag For Abuse

99. Do you think it makes a difference less in how much a parent gives in absolute terms than in how much they are able to give given their resources? A parent who gives $20 but for whom this represents a lot of sacrifice and effort, not to mention hopes and dreams for the child, and a parent who does not consider helping their child with college expenses to be a priority are quite different, whether or not they have the funds. A least, this is how these comments seem to crystallize to me. Fortunately, it seems that most posters (and author) will help their children as much as they possibly can. IMHO, that is what will mean the most and set the best example for their children in the long run.

    posted by : jessiebird on 8/6/2009 at 10:05 AM Flag For Abuse

100. Wow, I am so thankful I have parents like mine, and not like the one who wrote this (who apparently decided not to spring for orthodontia either, nice). My parents -- one of whom put herself through med school -- have hopes that their children won't sacrifice the dream of home ownership because of being saddled with student loan debt. They have been pushed to the brink financially to see us through school.
     
     There was never any question my brother, sister and I were going to college, and when I went off, I was not particularly motivated and was a poor high school student. But once I got to school, everything changed. I graduated near the top of my class, served as the editor in chief of our college paper and led by example for my younger siblings.
     
     Now I'm pursuing my career as a journalist, which means it may be awhile before I own that house. But someday I will, because I won't be spending $80,000 to repay loan debt. And as I look at my friends struggling to balance rent, cost of living, a car payment and student loan payments, I thank my lucky stars again and again. I don't know what my future holds, but I do know I'll do everything I can to help my kid(s) through school when I get to that point, like my parents did. And I won't sacrifice that idea by having five of them either, because even at 25 I know I'll probably never be able to afford that.
     
     Foresight -- it's a beautiful thing. As is birth control and dentistry.
     

     posted by : ACinDC on 8/10/2009 at 6:44 PM Flag For Abuse

101. Yeah to all the parents who finally understand that children are being ruined because everything is always given to them for free.  Nowadays one of the biggest problems facing the youth is that they have never had to earn anything, from privilege to costlier things such as an adult education. The world is flooded with youth that feel the world owes them everything.  They have no morals no work ethic no motivation.  And let me tell you parents who are giving their children everything, they are cheating their way through their free education, because you have taught them nothing except that the world revolves around them and they are entitled to everything they can grasp.  If a child or adult for that matter has to work for something that something is so much more precious to them due to the fact that they have earned it.  Moral character and ethical behavior are formed by hard work and determination, not by giving a child it's every desire and whim.  Anyone who has had to work with the youth of today know exactly what I am talking of.
     Growing up in the 60's as one of 6 children, we always knew that everything was a privledge not a right.  From the clothes on our backs to the food on our plates to the possessions we had, all were privilege that were earned by good behavior, respect and hard work. Guess what? Because of that, my parents are proud to say that they raised 6 children who all are good decent honest hardworking people.  Most of the my siblings have pursued college from 2 year degrees all the way up to PHD and multiple degrees, all by their own hard work and determination.  I never hear one gripe that mom and dad didn't foot their bill for schooling.  I say bravo to the author of this article, she will be so proud of her children's accomplishments and they will be better people for it.

     posted by : d smith on 8/22/2009 at 12:38 PM Flag For Abuse

102. You are a peice of shit mother

     posted by : BIYATCH on 8/23/2009 at 12:44 PM Flag For Abuse

103. I am the second child of seven.  I was the first in my family to go to and graduate from college, but I was not the last to do so.  My parents helped in the ways they were able, which was very very little financially but always emotionally.  I met my husband at the end of my college time, he was finishing law school.  Neither of our parents paid for our college and we worked, got grants, and took out loans.  Fifteen years past college we have also struggled to put food on the table, driven 10 year old cars, and saved and then had to use that savings.  A college degree is no more a promise of success than our own parents success is a marker of how well we will do. 
     
     My husband's parents paid a grand total of $1000 his first semester of undergrad and nothing for the next 7 years.  They paid the entire tuition, living expenses and books of a private college for his sister 4 years younger.   They could have easily paid for both children without a hiccup.  We have always been grateful that we both worked our way through school.  It has been a mark of personal pride to know that we accomplished it on our own.
     
     We are now the parents of 4 children.  One who is entering his second year of college.  He is still 17, yes he started a year early.  The first year he lived with us and we continued to support him as we always had.  Since he was small we'd told him we had no intention of ever covering his entire education and he would need to be working.  As with many others I knew so many people who had their education paid for and just didn't take it as seriously as they otherwise should have.  Before our son's second year of school started we had to move 1400 miles away from his school.  Instead of moving with us this son lined up all his housing, job, and funds to cover books and tuition.  I paid a grand total of $22 for his class fees a month ago.  When I told him how I really would like to do what we can he melted my heart by saying "mom, I'm a big boy now, I *want* to do this on my own"  He wants to be a grown up, he doesn't want me to take over and keep him receiving all the time.  I am thrilled that I raised a young man who wants to be able to work and doesn't want me to send money.  All he wants from me is to be mom, to talk to him, lift his spirits and be the biggest cheerleader I can be.  While he is 17 for some of the rest of the year (fall birthday) this coming year we will not be claiming him on our taxes, he is a big kid now, he wants to support himself and we will honor that by allowing him the chance to fly *and* fall.  When he has problems, and I expect he will, we will do all within our power to help in the way that will best assist him which may or may not be financial. 
     
     The decision to cover college expenses for our children was made before we had even one child.  The decision to have more children was made not based on finances but the ability to love and care for our children.  There are as many theories on the best raising of children as their are families.  I happen to agree with the author in this respect.  Allowing a child to grow into an adult and act as an adult and experience consequences as an adult does not make one a unfeeling parent nor a selfish one.  It appears to me to be far more selfish to limit the amount of children solely to how much you can buy.  However, maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's a great thing that a parent like this only have a child or two.  I'd much prefer my parents who loved us and didn't take our education personally to one who felt that it reflected on their parenting to be able to tell their friends how much money they shelled out to the adults they hadn't finished raising yet.
     

     posted by : happy44 on 8/27/2009 at 2:39 AM Flag For Abuse

104. My kids know that I will not pay for their education either. If they want it bad enough they will work for it and apply for scholarships or get a job. I offer them time, connections and encouragement but there is a reason I went through school and started a career and it wasn't so that I can pour it all down the drain with absurd tuition costs. Especially for an undergraduate degree. There is very little you learn in those first fours years that require an institution as expensive as Harvard. Ill keep my hard earned 50K a year! College isn't all weve made it into. I think Americans should take a little wisdom from some South American countries where Primary school education is only available to those students who work hard and score high. We need to set aside our pride. If your child is unmotivated or just not smart then college might NOT be for them. Get over it. There was a time when a higher education was only available to those who wanted to learn and truly had a future in an academic field. Nowadays, we want to send ALL kids to college--half of which spend the first year year partying and the second flunking out. Get a job. We need working people in America. All these lousy generic degrees wont get you anywhere. The best thing you can do in college is make good connections. Don't get a useless degree in Business or Psychology!!!! Everyone has one, promise! I own my own business and Id take a kid who never stepped foot in a university but knows the trade, or someone referred to me by another business contact over a college grad with a 10 page resume any day. This is America. The dream for young people used to be going off and making their own way in the world. People need to stop letting their kids goof around for so long. Give the youngsters some responsibility! Great article! End of Speech.

     posted by : Parker on 8/27/2009 at 6:38 PM Flag For Abuse

105. If you can't afford college for your kids, I totally understand that. But it seems completely unfair to have (or have the chance to have) the money to send your child to college and to not.
     
     Maybe it's because I'm from a culture that values education over anything else, but it seems a tragedy to deny help for your own offspring, who you (hopefully) willingly decided to have and accepted the consequences for, with something that is becoming more essential but harder to achieve.
     
     And you think, if you are making a comfortable enough income to provide at least some of your child's college education (and spend time writing for Babble), that your child is going to (or should) meet the requirements for financial aid? Give me a break. That money should be going to the people who are in the position you were in in college: on their own, parents not able to afford to pay
     
     And a job that a teenager will get hired for is not going to pay for a college education. The highly qualified older people who graduated from college but now cannot find jobs because of the economy are taking the well-paying jobs you have fond memories of performing in high school and college.
     
     What makes more sense to me is having your child work during high school and college to pay for their private items, like clothes, books, i-pods, pencils, phones, whatever. When they start college, have them pay for board and food. Even some of the actual tuition seems entirely reasonable to me.
     
     Also, why not encourage your child to volunteer with some of the time they might have to spend working otherwise? Looks great on a college (or job) application, builds good morals, and just a wonderful thing to do.
     
     I think that in portions, you might have a good idea, but there are better ways to build morals and a good work ethic than just leaving your kid on their own in an amazingly difficult situation.
     

     posted by : mah on 9/20/2009 at 4:42 AM Flag For Abuse

106. I would not be surprised if a lot of parents proclaiming that their offspring will need to man it up and work for themselves send the little "money-grabbers" to private schools so they won't have to have the same public-school education as the future plumbers and beauticians of America.

     posted by : Zulema on 9/20/2009 at 4:54 AM Flag For Abuse

107. If this woman thinks she gave up so much for her children then why did she have them? She certainly wasn't doing them any favors!! You should really consider your ability to provide for a child BEFORE YOU HAVE FIVE OF THEM. As someone who got through college with no help from her parents I can tell you that it's really really hard. I did it. Now I'm a Doctor, but it took longer than it should have and I didn't get a good nights sleep for 8 years. I really don't know how my brain functioned at all. Working full-time while being a full-time student and trying to have something that resembles a social life is not easy. My grades were no-where near where they should have been and everything was always half assed, because I was busy working. I still have loans, I took out everything I could, but factor in living expenses and tuition for eight years and you are easily over the limit on what you are allowed to borrow from the federal student loan programs. The worst part is that had my parents planned for the future before I was born, or even after, then they would have been able to contribute to make things easier. Advising parents to not to plan for their children's future is irresponsible. When it comes time for my children to go to college you can be sure I will be footing the bill. The extra opportunities they will have because of it will be well worth any price I pay.
     

     posted by : reallife on 10/12/2009 at 3:27 PM Flag For Abuse

108. HEY REALLIFE! did it ever occur to you that you could have chosen a easier path. my husband and i paid for our school and worked full time.  it is hard. you chose to be a doctor, what do you expect.... you could have chose another career. hopefully your career will pay off your loans. but I went to school with kids who were funded by government or parents, and their character level was below par. they need to work for what they want. it is simple. . We went to Jr. college as much as we could to apply to business...went on to a university, and it took us 5 years. try taking 14 units, working 30 hrs at a bank, and being pregnant with twins. I just did it.  then my husband continued to study and get his CPA licence...miserable with newborn twins, but we were blessed to have the opportunity and not have to leach off of our parents. My parents were millionaires at one time. I chose to get married at 18, they said, "pay for your own college" . and i did. not a big deal. being spoiled is not going to benefit you in any way.
     

     posted by : I DID IT SO CAN YOU on 10/20/2009 at 12:42 AM Flag For Abuse

109. The future plumbers of America will not have to worry about much. Neither will the future electricians, mechanics, etc.
     
     The people in my class who chose trades are MILES ahead of everyone else financially.
     

     posted by : reverse classist on 10/25/2009 at 2:17 PM Flag For Abuse

110. I recently just graduated from college with a degree in Engineering.  I went to community college and transferred to a University.  Community Colleges are a great option.
     My parents helped me as much as they could.  The same for my sisters.  At the end of the day I have 30 K in debt. 
     
     I know my parents would of helped me more if they could.  I don't know what it is like from their side but here is what I can say.
     
     First of all I would like to address financial aid.
     
     The financial package you recieve is based on not only you, but your parents.  FASFA considers a student a dependent until the age of 24 years old or the student has a child of their own, has joined the military or is legally emancipated. It does not matter if you file independently on your taxes.  Parents of a dependent must fill out the FASFA for the student to qualify for anything. It does not matter if you cannot find your parents.  If you were a ward of the state you have to get the state to sign off on it.
     
     I found out Grants are only given to students who have financial need. Many middle class parents like mine can pay the mortgage but don't have enough money to pay for tuition and other educational expenses on top of it.  So your left in the scholarship and loan category.   I would apply to over 25 scholarships a year but only got about $1,000 a year.  Most scholarships you must show financial need as defined by FASFA, or some other qualification.  I once went through the State of California Scholarship book, I was only qualified for about 20 out of thousands of scholarship.  Yes, I applied for more scholarships then I am qualified for. My boyfriend had it even worst, he is an uppper middle class white Caucasian male, who had a 3.8 gpa in engineering.  He only qualified for about 6 scholarships.  He received about a $1,000 a year also. 
     
     Much of the dialog above said they qualified for grants and helped use it to pay for college.  I just wanted to clear up the fact that their is a good chance your children will not. 
     
     Not all student federal loans are subsidized loans either.  If it is determined your parents can pay for your education all they will offer you is unsubsidized loans to only cover tuition.  This is what my boyfriend did to cover two years of tuition.  He had to fight his parents to get the information so he could apply to FASFA, just to get these loans.  I have known kids who "borrow" their parents tax returns or  others who sue their parents to get them to fill out the FASFA. 
     
     Now about actual school.
     
     I can take 16 engineering units and work an internship; but there were semesters were I was taking on so many units I could not work.  My parents helped me out. I can also say not taking one class  can set you back one year in your education.  In my case that was about 10K a year.  College curriculums are often set up with consecutive  classes only offered once a year. 
     
     College for most people I know was a time to grow up and learn.  A person can struggle even if everything is paid for.  Personally my best and most productive semesters were the ones I was not working.  They also cost me the most money, because of interest on student loans.  My worst and most under-productive semesters I actually paid for.  Paying for a class did not make me do better or worst in it.  Learning to live life had a direct effect.  Learning to deal with a bad relationship had more of an effect then money.  Try to remember what it feels like to be 18.  I look at freshman and think "baby".  So do most upperclassman. 
     
     College has changed.  I was asked why engineers have to take advance composition, history, and world music.  The answer, they are trying to make well rounded students.  Which means to graduate in four years you must take 18 semester units every semester and never change your major.  The average college graduate is looking at a 5 year degree.  Many argue making well rounded students is a waste of money.  There are many counter arguments.  Please call your local college for all the reasons.  They have many valid points.
     
     I think it is important to instill your children with the knowledge of money and money management skills.  It is important for your children to work hard for something they want to achieve.  Its important for your children to have a good work ethic. If you pay for college their college you make their lives easier, but you can still give them these values.  I know many people whose parents paid for everything.  All they had to get was a part time job for fun money.  They either had these values walking into college or they didn't.  Same with  the people I know who paid for their own college.  You have those values waking in or you didn't.  Very few students have a meant learned those values while in college.  There are some, but very few.
     
     

     posted by : College Grad on 10/27/2009 at 7:46 AM Flag For Abuse

111. I understand the burden putting a child through college must be, but my philosophy is that if you can't afford to put a child through college, then you should have it in the first place. I know that seems harsh, but I honestly think my life would be a lot easier if I didn't have to worry about putting myself through college.
     
     I went to a pretty middle to upper class high school as one of the fewer lower class students in the district. I did well (Honors, National Honor Society) and got accepted a year early to a prestigous college a few hundred miles away from home. I was able to finance the first year of my education through grants, scholarships, and loans. But once I got to school, I was so terrified of losing my scholarship and not being able to get enough money together for the following school year that I suffered a mini-breakdown and ended up having to take time off. Now at eighteen, I'm stuck living with my mom working full time until I can get the nerve up to try to go back to school again.
     
     I know that going out on your own and supporting yourself is supposed to just be a regular part of becoming an adult, but I can't help but to think that the kids who don't have to pay their way through college have a huge advantage.  I've been  financially supporting my mother and myself since I was 15 and I'm tired of having to struggle for everything. I've been through the sitting on milk crates, eating crappy (or sometimes no) food, and going to the public library for entertainment, and I'm sick of it. I'm ready for someone to take care of me. If I had someone to pay my way through college, my life would be perfect right now. It just infuriates me when people outright refuse to help their kids through college. If you have the opportunity to start your child's life out on the right foot, why wouldn't you?

     posted by : paurri on 11/9/2009 at 3:13 AM Flag For Abuse