feedback for "Notes from Underground"

1. You are 100% right about people's unwillingness to give up their subway seats--and it's not just in New York. I was regularly taking the Chicago L during a particularly hot summer when I was in my third trimester, and I rarely was given a seat. And when I was, I found the same thing: 1. Older women, 2. Younger women, 3. Men of color.   Given that you found the exact same phenomenon in your town, there has to be some explanation for this, and I'm curious about what it is...

   posted by : chyna823 on 6/14/2007 at 1:32 PM Flag For Abuse

2. You are soooo right. In fact I thought of printing your article and distributing it to those awful men on the subway. The worst offenders are those young white yuppies who open up their Wall Street Journal right into your pregnant belly. I can't believe them! So what should we do? Tell them they have no education?
   

   posted by : mariebaguette on 6/14/2007 at 7:10 PM Flag For Abuse

3. It is remarkable who actually gives up their seat (senior citizens! old men!) I have had a surprisingly good experience, though. I am 6 months pregnant and I have to give New Yorkers credit; I think I can safely say I get a seat 95% of the time. But, I do not travel in rush hour, so this may account for my luck. When I do get caught in a rush hour crowd, it does often feel like people are trying all they can do to avert their eyes. If my husband is with me and I don't get a seat, he picks the youngest and healthiest who are sitting hiding behind their books and ipods, and glares down at them. As long as I live, (and after I have this baby) I will never, ever allow a pregnant woman to stand on public transportation!
   

   posted by : chantalart on 6/15/2007 at 2:10 PM Flag For Abuse

4. I had the exact same experience....only once did a white younger man give up his seat for me when I was pregnant.  It was always the elderly, other women or the African American men.  The only time I got a seat out of  the caucasian male subway population was to ask him if he could give up his seat for me on a crowded subway during evening rush hour on the 7 train from NYC - Queens....he ungraciously obliged....wtf is wrong with the population of the 20 - 50 year old caucasian men these days???  They need a good kick in the a**.
   

   posted by : bellabast on 6/15/2007 at 3:25 PM Flag For Abuse

5. In London, England the only people who give up their seats - or indeed ask others to give up seats on your behalf - are the women - young and older. Everyone else is so brazen they don't even avert their eyes. They just look at you trying to balance on the jerky underground. In nine months a couple of men have offered up their seat. I just try to walk everywhere I can otherwise I find it all too demoralising.
   

   posted by : cocoa on 6/15/2007 at 5:02 PM Flag For Abuse

6. It seems to be a world wide problem this one. Hasn't escaped Japan either. A going on 8 months pregnant friend was on the shinkansen going from Kyoto to Shizuoka. There's a couple of hours in that trip. Not one person offered their seat. NOT ONE! I couldn't believe it when she told me. Why aren't we helping each other any more?

   posted by : bex on 6/15/2007 at 5:35 PM Flag For Abuse

7. How funny -- I also had a mental list of likely seat volunteerers by demographic, on the BART here in the Bay Area.  It was: 1.  Women in their 30s-40s, any ethnicity or race (my guess is it was a BTDT situation) 2.  Latino men over 25 3.  Filipino men under 25 4.  Younger women   Least likely?  South Asian men and older women.  My experience was not at all the same as yours with the older women -- wonder what accounts for the bicoastal difference there?  Then again, no one helps with the stroller here either.   I wasn't shy about asking, especially in my second pregnancy.  I would just walk in, stand near the door, and announce, loudly but without shouting, while glancing vaguely about but without making eye contact with anyone, "Excuse me, I'd like a seat please."  I think it's important not to ask any one person in particular.  People get defensive, there's a nonapparent disability, something like that.  Better to ask for volunteers from the masses, and hopefully you'll get someone near the door (you know, in the seats reserved for that purpose), because it *sucks* to try to squeeze through a crowded train car with a huge belly. 

   posted by : AnneCA on 6/15/2007 at 5:43 PM Flag For Abuse

8. Excellent piece! I can totally identify. I rode BART from east bay to San Francisco everyday and depending on my mood, would be demoralized, outraged, saddened and fed up with those who would ignore my 8-9 month obviously pregnant standing self. I took an early maternity leave in part b/c I couldn't take riding BART anymore! White business men (all ages) NEVER gave up their seat. Correction: One white yuppy offered his seat but had to add "I'm getting off at the next stop anyway." WTF? I always prefered the side seats by the door and would often stand close to those side seat sitting Wall St reading yuppies only to have a lovely African American woman half way down the aisle "psssst" and wave me over to her seat. It was always women and almost always black women who would offer their seat. I was always thankful for that. What's wrong with our society? Rude.

   posted by : mama2v on 6/15/2007 at 9:37 PM Flag For Abuse

9. Not that this is an excuse, but I also wonder if it has to do with the fact that pregnancy is now considered...completely voluntary.  As in, no one HAS to be pregnant anymore, so if you are, you obviously did it to yourself, so don't expect special treatment for something YOU chose.  I will note that when I was pregnant and riding a shuttlebus in downtown Nashville, I was always given a seat.  But then, Tennessee is full of the kind of old-school southern gentlemen who can inadvertently cause a back-up on elevators trying to let the ladies out first. 

   posted by : Chiara on 6/16/2007 at 1:46 AM Flag For Abuse

10. I live in Berlin, Germany, and it is worse here! When I was pregnant no one would give me a seat on the bus or subway unless they were old, Muslim men....God bless the old, Muslim men.   After two years of  schlepping my son around the city, I've learned that no one will help with the stroller either........except for the old, Muslim men....who are frankly, too fragile to be attempting such arduous work.   Out here our dog gets all of the attention.  Germans love dogs more than people.......there, I've said it and I don't care how rude it sounds.   -Semoffett

    posted by : SEMoffett on 6/18/2007 at 6:18 AM Flag For Abuse

11. OK.  This is a good one.  I have observed this many times and the lack of civility toward those of you who are "out to here" is truly surprising and inexplicable.  I weep for my people ( young and not so young white men) and their lack of manners/civility.  I'm an early 40's father of 3 with one coming in August . I live and work in San Francisco and am often riding the streetcar, often with my kids.  I don't think I"ve ever sat while a woman is standing and my boys (6 and 2) are learning this also. I would wonder if the pregnant woman is just not on the radar of these nobs who sit but something I saw on the big road one day struck me as a sign that something is seriously off in the mind of the young American male.  We were on our way up to Tahoe and encountered a huge back up in the eastern suburbs.  When we finally got up to the source of the problem we saw that it was a young, attractive woman stranded in her car which had presumably broken down.  All around are young white men in pickups and cars, many looking like construction guys on the way home.  It would have been no task at all to hop out of the car, push her car off, and take her to the next exit, relieving the congestion, helping what can only be called a damsel in distress, and ultimately feeling pretty good about one's self.  Didn't happen. I applaud those of you who called those sitting yahoos on it; female insistence on manners and civility may be the only way to nuture it. 
    
    

    posted by : benhops on 6/19/2007 at 4:04 PM Flag For Abuse

12. I actually found it much better in NY than in Boston. When I was in NY everyone would leap out of their seats and insist I take them (although, you're right, it was often older women), even though I was only four or five months and fine with standing. In Boston when I was seven and eight months and the ride was longer... nobody. Nobody would give me a seat. And I think Chiara's on to something... that's exactly the attitude I hear from people all the time. No, I didn't expect anybody to give me a seat, but it would have been nice if they had.

    posted by : mcglory13 on 6/19/2007 at 9:53 PM Flag For Abuse

13. benhops wrote: female insistence on manners and civility may be the only way to nuture it.
    
    I would argue that it's "female insistence" (the women's liberation movement) that is partly responsible for getting us to where we are...
    
    MDD
    

    posted by : MailDeadDrop on 6/20/2007 at 6:12 PM Flag For Abuse

14.  Same thing in Washing DC on the Metro, and I'll tell you something else...I tore several ligaments in my left ankle when I was seven months pregnant and the A##hats here won't even give up a seat for a pregnant woman ON CRUTCHES.  IF a seat was offered it was most often a woman, and one memorable time by another pregnant woman – who at least had two good legs.    Tray

    posted by : trayletha on 6/21/2007 at 10:08 AM Flag For Abuse