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There's a much bigger myth than Santa being spread at Christmas.
We are doing the Santa thing. My kids are going to have to face the honest truths of the world soon enough, a few years of make-believe is the least I can give them.
posted by : Whit on 12/17/2007 at 4:00 AM Flag For Abuse
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I don't get it. Santa scared you so you're not doing it? I understand making that decision if it's in your child's best interest (because they're easily frightened, or they've been uncomfortable around "Santa"), but I don't get not doing it because when you were little you were scared. Your kid is not you. Yuck, no wonder we have helicopter parenting these days.
posted by : mcglory13 on 12/17/2007 at 9:03 AM Flag For Abuse
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I don't know... I don't think Santa is a lie- more of a story we tell kids to teach them a deeper, more real truth that can be hard for little ones to understand. Something about selflessness, generosity, and magic. That's how my parents seemed to present it, and they NEVER used the threat of "no presents" to get us to behave; there were more important reasons to be good, but Santa wasn't going to leave us lumps of coal for acting like kids, either. And when I found out that Santa Claus is really a game we play to teach that generosity and to have some fun believing in magic, I didn't feel that I had been lied to; it was a beautiful tradition.
Now that my son is 2, we have to think about these things. He's getting a few presents from "Santa" this year, but most of them are from Mommy and Daddy. The plan, for now, is to play the game with the understanding that we'll never lie when S. asks questions about Santa, and we'll keep the focus on the "real" things that make Christmas magical- sharing with others, spending time with family and friends, decking the halls and singing carols. Santa is only one small part of Christmas, and I hope that my kids will have happy memories of believing in him, if they choose to do so.
(But yes, the thought of an omniscient fat man writing down my naughty and nice deeds would have freaked me out as a kid, too- sorry you went through that!)
posted by : AllisonWonder on 12/17/2007 at 11:50 AM Flag For Abuse
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It sounds like your Santa experience was so off-the-wall bad that it's made it impossible for you to see Santa for what it is - a fun, harmless make-believe icon. I became skeptical of Santa at four or five because I was a voracious reader and had come across a story in which it was clear that Santa was make-believe. I was jealous of my "innocent" friends in elementary school (but I never told.) We never hang the "Santa's watching" sword over our kids' heads. The kids have fun writing little notes to Santa and are delighted with the three or four small unwrapped gifts that appear Christmas morning on the hearth rug. My oldest doesn't officially believe anymore, but he is a good sport for the littler ones. Bottom line, it is fun (at our house) and I wonder if it could be at yours especially since your spouse seems to want to play along for a few years anyway.
posted by : BBBGMOM on 12/17/2007 at 1:41 PM Flag For Abuse
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Gotta agree with the previous posters. I am so sorry that your parents ruined the Santa experience for you. It's not about believing in an obese, fat man who has a naughty and nice list. It's about believing that somebody is still caring enough to share themselves with the whole world without question.
Let your child believe, and enjoy the spirit of Christmas. Teach them about Santa the way you wish that he been taught to you. If you feel it's too much pressure on your child, ask who's putting the pressure on. Relax, and let the obese slob become the jolly, roly-poly person the rest of the world sees.
posted by : OldParrothead on 12/17/2007 at 1:49 PM Flag For Abuse
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I just had this conversation with someone. They were quite shocked at my view point. Whats new I think I shock everyone with everything I say.
Anyway my babysitter was the first to mention the santa story to my son. Like his Mom his skeptical 3 year old brain looked at me for a real answer. He already knew the answer but need a little reassurance that Santa wasn't really going to land on our roof and it was just a story. Some people think I am robbing him of a magic childhood...to that I say PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
A few nights later we were talking about the Geminid Meteor shower on the 13th. My highly imaginative son got it in his head that meteotites were going to bring him presents after Dad instilled the whole wish upon a star game while trying to ease his fears that meteorites weren't going to crash into our house etc. So because it was my son's own persistent belief that the meterites were bringing him a present sure enough Dec 13th the meteorites left a present for him and his sister under the tree. So just because we don't say be good or santa won't bring you stuff or santa is coming down the chimney I do leave Christmas to be a magical time in a childs imagintion and I don't set a controlled
mythology around it.Christmas is what my children want it to be not what society has deemed it to be. No Jesus or Santa myths are made to be real here in this house...although there are a few Santa decorations we tell him Santa is from a story about a man that used to bring presents and food to needy people and we try to re-live that message every Christmas by giving to those we love. So in a way we are all Santa's. I never really fell for the Santa line as a child but some of my sibilings took it into their teens. So I guess it really won't matter what you push on your kids....their personality type will decide whether they believe you or not. But just remember when they stop believing you or taking you serious that you sort of cemented the ideal in them. I always approach my son in a way that it isn't my idea and it is all his idea and if he believes that then it is fine by me but I never instill stories of my own into him as truths. Different strokes differents folks. I am sure life will go on regardless of whether you believe in santa or not.
posted by : carliec76 on 12/17/2007 at 2:40 PM Flag For Abuse
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You're writing a skeptical article about Christmas, and it's about Santa? How about the other myth that is used to keep kids in line and protect their innocence? Jesus is just as fictional, and most full-grown adults still believe that a human boy was born from a virgin and later rose from the dead. At least Santa is not a long-term lie like religion is. You mean I have to worship this skinny dude with a beard who is commonly depicted being executed by being nailed to planks of wood? Umm... can I go see that mall santa again?
posted by : ticktock on 12/17/2007 at 3:25 PM Flag For Abuse
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Wow, I'm kind of stunned that not lying to your child makes you a "bad
parent." My parents tried to do the Santa thing with me, but I
was so skeptical and probing in my questions that they dropped the
fiction when I was 3 and we were all the happier for it. I still
loved Christmas and had a a very imaginative and creative
childhood. Now that I'm expecting my first child, I know I won't
be playing the Santa game. My husband's Jewish, so he thinks the
whole Santa thing is mystifying, if not creepy. Rather than try
to explain to our daughter that Santa doesn't visit her Jewish friends
and family, and that she only gets presents from Santa because her
mama's a shiksa, we're going to tell her the truth from the
beginning. My husband and I both had happy Santa-free childhoods,
so I don't understand what's so terrible about it.
posted by : snorkmaiden on 12/17/2007 at 3:30 PM Flag For Abuse
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who said she was a bad parent?
posted by : BBBGMOM on 12/17/2007 at 3:38 PM Flag For Abuse
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The article is part of the "Bad Parent" series, which I interpreted as
implying that one is a "bad parent" if they don't play along with the
Santa thing. I find the whole "bad parent" label annoying in
general, since it is too often applied to people simply for having
differing opinions on controversial issues. But applying the "bad
parent" label to the Santa issue is particularly insidious, because it
suggests that anyone who isn't the same religion is somehow letting
their kids down. I already mentioned all the Jewish kids I know
who aren't on Santa's route (yet somehow still manage to have happy
childhoods). But I also know Christians who don't perpetuate the
Santa myth, because they believe "Jesus is the reason for the season,"
and those kids seem to be doing just fine, as well. I don't
intend to tell my daughter any nice stories about Jesus or Santa, but I
do intend to teach her that Christmas is about generosity and helping
others (a lesson that is often lost when the story is focused on Santa
and how much loot he's going to bring you).
posted by : snorkmaiden on 12/17/2007 at 5:07 PM Flag For Abuse
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This is being debated at my blog, too. Basically, I mentioned that my husband and I don't think we're going to do Santa with our kids, and my entire family and most of our friends spazzed.
Here's the thing, though - we've noticed that the people who are most committed to Santa are the ones who don't believe in the rest of the Christmas magic (Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, etc.). For them, without Santa, Christmas is just a day that we eat too much and give each other presents. The people who have agreed with us are the ones who have religious faith. For them, the magic of Christmas is separate from the magic of Santa.
Anyway, it's interesting. Fortunately our oldest is only two, so we have some time to decide. She's still in the "terrified" phase.
posted by : aaustin on 12/17/2007 at 5:42 PM Flag For Abuse
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Hey all, sorry to burst your bubble, but the Santa myth is totally unnecessary. I was raised Jewish, and every year at Hanukkah, I knew exactly where my presents came from. I don't think this made me any less selfless, giving, or loving. If anything, it made the holiday more of a family bonding thing than a "believe in magic" thing. I don't see anything wrong with that.
posted by : jeremy on 12/17/2007 at 6:05 PM Flag For Abuse
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Oh - sorry I missed that it was titled "Bad Parent" at the top. I see what you mean. I think the "Bad Parent" designation is just to light a fire under people and get readers - it can't really be what the editors think... I mean looking thru the list of essays under this category... No way. As for the Santa-detractors, I have no delusions that believing in Santa or not will affect a child in any way; it will not offer up sweet lessons in morality and altruism, etc. To us it is simple fun - nothing more than that.
posted by : BBBGMOM on 12/17/2007 at 6:10 PM Flag For Abuse
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In response to Tickock's comment, I think it's pretty universally accepted by historians that there was an actual Jesus. Whether or not he was the son of God, rose from the dead, etc....well, yeah, that's where myth comes in.
But whether it's Jesus or Santa or Satan or the Great Pumpkin, I think myth is an important part of any culture. Myths speak to universal human questions and desires. They keep us questioning and marveling and hoping. For children, I think, myths are especially important, because they teach the importance of believing in things that aren't measurable and tangible and concrete: love and generosity and forgiveness. They teach us to have faith -- and not necessarily in a religious sense.
Of course, there are plenty of myths other than Santa that can serve this purpose. It's up to you whether or not you want Santa to be part of your daughter's imaginary repertoire. But I have trouble with calling Santa a "lie," just like I have trouble when people call novels and short stories "lies." Sometimes the "lies" are truer than reality.
posted by : Roper on 12/17/2007 at 8:05 PM Flag For Abuse
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It's not universally accepted that Jesus was a historical figure. There is no uncontested archaeological evidence from his time, and the gospels were written long after he supposedly died.
Compare the scant proof of a historical Jesus with the detailed evidence of "Saint" Nicholas, and you might find that Santa Clause is a lot more real historically than believers can prove about their own savior.
posted by : ticktock on 12/17/2007 at 10:26 PM Flag For Abuse
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I included links that don't show up in the comments. But check wikipedia's entry of historicity of Jesus and compare it to wikipedia's entry on Saint Nicholas.
posted by : ticktock on 12/17/2007 at 10:29 PM Flag For Abuse
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Is it because the letters in Santa's name also can be rearranged to spell Satan?
Not only did I demystify Santa, but I also made sure to tell my two-year old about AIDS, sexual abuse, spousal abuse, murder of children, starving children with rats eating their corpses, cancer, MS, gang rape, torture, bankruptcy, racism, classism, etc. Because I don't want to tell any lies about the world.
Hurrr.
posted by : GetOffMyLawn on 12/17/2007 at 11:00 PM Flag For Abuse
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That's a pretty black and white perspective about Santa! I agree about the lying thing, and actually am on the fence myself regarding what to tell my son when he is old enough. Simultaneously, it wasn't my parents who wielded the Santa myth as a threat, it was my silly little friends. They were the ones whispering about Santa's elves watching all my naughty deeds. My parents did a lovely job of representing Santa in a most positive light, and Christmas Eve was full of magic and excitement. So I guess it is how the parents choose to explain the Santa myth. And as for the whole lying thing, well,. I am still trying to figure that one out. There are plenty of things I am going to have to own up to once my son starts asking the questions. Whether Santa is a real or not is the least of my worries!
posted by : RobinH100 on 12/18/2007 at 8:24 AM Flag For Abuse
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PS
posted by : RobinH100 on 12/18/2007 at 8:55 AM Flag For Abuse
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Really, that is the spirit of giving at anytime during the year, making sure that everyone knows who got them what? I guess those Angel gifts I gave should have had my name written in big bold letters, so I could get those thank you notes and the kids can lose faith in their parents or Santa. I think giving is about knowing that you have done something nice for someone else. You don't need credit for every good deed or gift you give/do for someone. It is about knowing that that person's day was made a little better by a simple gesture.
As for Santa, I take time and care to make the visit pleasant for my kids. I pick the right Santa and he is not the one with the line snaked around the mall. Also, I assured my 22 month old son, who doesn't like most people, that Santa would still bring him gifts even though he cried. Because Santa understood.
And what is so hard with giving the kids the presents, that they directly asked Santa for, from him and then any others from the parents? I truly don't see what the big deal is with this issue. However, you spoil it for my kid and you will see the wrath of me.
posted by : Wendy on 12/18/2007 at 11:05 AM Flag For Abuse
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This is a really interesting discussion ... though i come out on the "pro-santa" side, i do think the subject merits a vigorous debate, and i haven't heard anyone take the "anti-santa" position until now.
On the one hand Santa encourages materialism and breaks the consistency of parents being a source of the truth for parents. Editing out information (such as all the scary details of the world outlined by GetOffMyLawn above) is different from deliberately misleading children. I have to say that i do it with some reluctance (even though my son is only 2.75 years old).
On the other hand children will want toys with or without a Santa, and tales of magic and fairies are part of the magic of childhood -- the silver lining, you might say, of their inability to fully grasp the scientific reality behind life.
In the end, it is perhaps more beautiful to know that your parents love you enough to buy you gifts and set out milk and cookies and put sleigh marks on the lawn (or whatever you happen to do) than it is to believe in a magic fat guy. If its done properly, it may not be a disappointment when the curtain falls.
I do think the Santa - God anologies above are appropriate -- when I stopped believing in God at around age 12 I was crushed at first, and then the more I thought about it the more beautiful it was: all the morality and goodwill (and occasional callousness and cruelty) that I previously believed emanated from some being in the sky now came from the people around me.
posted by : Papaganoose on 12/18/2007 at 11:53 AM Flag For Abuse
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I think the to-Santa-or-not-to-Santa issue is just like everything else: Santa is fine in moderation. My child is only 2 this year, so he doesn't quite understand Santa yet, but my husband and I have decided that he'll get one Santa gift, and the rest from Mommy and Daddy. This way, if in a few years Santa has to be phased out, he won't be so stressed about the prospect of not getting toys. I don't like the idea of using Santa as a threat, so that won't happen. I suppose when he does start to ask the tough questions about Santa, we'll have to consider whether or not to tell the truth, but I'm hopeful that by that time he'll have enough happy Christmas memories that don't revolve around Santa that it will be ok.
When I started adding up all the impossibilities and rationalities, my own mother explained Santa perfectly to me: Santa represents the spirit of giving, and as long as that spirit lives in your heart, then Santa is real.
And to be frank, I hope that anyone who celebrates Christmas, Santa or not, will remember the holiday's true meaning: the birth of Christ. Whether or not my child believes fully in Santa, I hope to give him the religious foundation to make every Christmas special.
posted by : MelloMama on 12/18/2007 at 2:24 PM Flag For Abuse
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"Editing out information (such as all the scary details of the world
outlined by GetOffMyLawn above) is different from deliberately
misleading children.
"
Liar. It's fraud by omission.
posted by : GetOffMyLawn on 12/18/2007 at 7:43 PM Flag For Abuse
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This whole argument is silly - why should I care what you think about Santa? It's hardly a huge issue of parenting. You either say he's real or you say he isn't. I doubt too many kids are all that affected either way. It's not as if most children are really traumatized by finding out that he's not real, and no one goes to college still believing. And if you don't believe in Jesus, just celebrate the holiday in a secular spirit for your own family, and feel free to look down on the people who see another meaning. They won't mind, because you can't disprove someone's faith by sending them to wikipedia. Which, as we should all know, is hardly the most reliable source of information out there.
posted by : leebs on 12/19/2007 at 1:50 PM Flag For Abuse
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you can't disprove someone's faith by sending them to wikipedia
Heh--excellent. I'm gonna get that put on a t-shirt.
I wasn't at all traumatized when I found out about Santa. First off, my dad didn't say, "There's no Santa." He said, "Mom and I are Santa," which I thought was a nice way to put it. And once I did know, I felt very grown up to be in on the secret. I thought it was cool.
posted by : chyna823 on 12/19/2007 at 2:05 PM Flag For Abuse
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Teaching your child to be honest at all costs has its drawbacks.
"Hi. Why are you fat/ugly/short/horribly scarred?"
Myth, allegory and tact are all very important things. Santa was an early lesson in each for me.
Kind of like goldfish being a good first experience with death.
Training wheels for adulthood.
posted by : jenseju on 12/21/2007 at 4:06 PM Flag For Abuse
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i definately will do the whole santa thing for my kids once they get old enough. same with the tooth fairy but not with the easter bunny since we're not religious and don't celebrate easter.
i believe that you all can do what you want but i'm going to do it for my kids because it's fun. watching movies like "The Santa Clause" and writing notes to Santa, hoping he gets it in time to get what you want was just a fun part of childhood.
I wasn't crushed when i found out either. I actually figured it out myself. One christmas, i got a remote controlled car and i noticed a sticker on the top right corner of the box. being curious, i peeled the sticker off and saw that it was bought at wal-mart for such and such a price. but that's not where i lost faith. i rationalized and figured that for whatever the elves couldn't make, santa sent them to wal-mart to get it.
when i found out, it was actually on easter. i got a huge egg with a lot of candy in it. later on that day, i noticed a bag from target and it had a reciept in it. i looked at the reciept to see what my parents had bought and it happened to be the egg. my mom was in the bathroom and i stormed in there and was like "Guess what i found!" i was 10 (yeah, pretty old to still believe but i loved it). i wasn't heartbroken. we just laughed it off and i realized since the easter bunny wasn't real, neither was santa claus and the tooth fairy.
posted by : jesskat on 8/28/2008 at 3:59 AM Flag For Abuse
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My mom was raised to believe in Santa and she did whole-heartedly and when she learned there was no Santa around the age of seven she was devastated. She can still recall how shocked and hurt she was when she found out; she honestly felt like her parents had lied to her (which I guess they had). When she had my siblings and me we were not taught to believe in Santa. We learned about the history surrounding him and we watched movies and read books about him but we knew he was pretend, the same as the tooth fairy (mom left a quarter under our pillow), and Star-Bright (HUGE in our house). But looking back we didn’t miss out, we made Christmas lists and gave them to mom and dad. We baked our goodies, we sang our Santa and other Christmas songs and we thanked our parents for the awesome gifts they gave us. You don’t lose the magic of Christmas and innocence by teaching the truth.
posted by : Still Love Christmas on 12/18/2008 at 9:56 AM Flag For Abuse
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I loved this article. Mine is still a little young for santa but I've started wondering whether I'll encourage her to believe in him or not. I wasn't really brought up on the Santa myth; my family Christmas was much more about the nativity, the food, the gathering. My husband and I are debating but it's really encouraging to her other points of view as I just don't get the Santa thing.
posted by : cocoa on 12/19/2008 at 2:20 PM Flag For Abuse
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Still Love Christmas, I could have written your post! My mother believed in Santa long after her classmates stopped. She used to get into arguments at school with people who said Santa wasn't real, because her parents said he was and she knew they would never, ever lie to her. When she found out that they had been, she was devastated, and she felt humiliated and stupid for having trusted them.
So my sisters and brother and I were never told that Santa was real. We were told the myth of Santa, because it's a nice story, and we got the whole "Santa is the spirit of giving" thing. It certainly didn't make us any less imaginative, or less excited about Christmas (even though our family is also atheist/agnostic, so we got the Jesus myth the same way we got Santa - as a nice story people tell). Christmas is about generosity and family and joy. Santa doesn't make that more special - nothing *could* be better than what is real about the season!
When I have children, I'm going to do Christmas the same way my parents did. You don't need Santa to make the holidays magical.
posted by : Kelmendi on 12/21/2008 at 6:49 PM Flag For Abuse
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We never really believed in Santa. They never said he didn't exist, but it was kinda a Santa is coming (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) kinda thing. Like a fun holiday game of pretend we played with our parents. We all pretended Santa was real, when we knew he wasn't any more real than Mickey Mouse, or Tom & Jerry. Santa was a fun holiday story. We had presents under the tree from him, but we knew they were from our parents. I honestly don't remember ever actually believing in Santa, so on the upside I don't have a Santa disillusionment story so common among my friends. I'm an atheist but I still celebrate Christmas as kind of a family and friends appreciation holiday. I think I'll try the Santa game with my kids, but if they ask point blank I won't lie to them.
posted by : mchaos on 1/14/2009 at 6:14 PM Flag For Abuse
