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You have got to be kidding right?
No parent can reasonably say that Burning man is a safe place for a child.
Between the dust storms and the heat, numerous people doing drugs, the dangerous and unregulated "art cars" and general lawlessness of that scene I can't imagine a less appropriate place for a child.
It always kills me that some parents can't accept there are just some places that kids should not go, BM is one of them. This is one of the first times the "Bad Parent" tag truly applies to the author.
posted by : Spartic on 6/26/2008 at 1:54 PM Flag For Abuse
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Sounds like hell to me.
What I found really striking was this statement: I'd also seen at Burning Man a sense of neighborliness I'd never encountered elsewhere.
Really? I wonder if you should consider moving to a different neighborhood.
posted by : BBBGMOM on 6/26/2008 at 2:40 PM Flag For Abuse
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Um, that's funny. I thought just the opposite. Why is this bad parenting?
I live in a city where people drive recklessly, do drugs and man it was over 100 degrees in the shade 2 weeks ago. At least ya'all had fun!
posted by : Gmama on 6/26/2008 at 2:56 PM Flag For Abuse
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Sounds like you did a great job taking care of your little one in a crazy and beautiful place. Ignore the nay-saying pessimists. Good work!
posted by : amommy on 6/26/2008 at 3:11 PM Flag For Abuse
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Personally I wouldn't even go to Burning Man myself. Gross.
But this parent seemed to take good care of the kid at the festival - and that's all that really matters.
I do wonder, though, what's the point of going to Burning Man with a kid? I thought the whole idea was to get out of your head and have orgies (that's a little tongue in cheek).
Other than seeing some interesting art, a kid really misses most of what BM seems to be about -- especially at night.
So, again, why bother?
posted by : k1 on 6/26/2008 at 3:30 PM Flag For Abuse
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Not entirely responsible, but seems like the parent was watching closely to ensure her kids' safety.
Surely not as irresponsible as homebirthing.
posted by : mrb on 6/26/2008 at 3:46 PM Flag For Abuse
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Um, you're so cool?
I don't know. Usually I read these "bad parents" and think, "That's not so bad". I read this one and went, "Huh? I don't get it."
posted by : gocubs on 6/26/2008 at 4:04 PM Flag For Abuse
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I wish I was as cool errrrr I guess in this case HOT as you :)
I wouldn't take ME to Burning man because I don't do well in the heat and have no clue about deserts... In fact we talked my step son out of hopping on a bus to go down there a couple years ago. (He is more than clueless about it... he figured he could "just get what I need there" Ya , right, even I know that isn't possible at burning man!)
ANYWAY, I don't see how this makes you a bad parent. You obviously knew what you were getting into before you went and you did not abandon your son in the tent while you went out and "did" burning man... now that would have made me question your parenting skills... what you wrote here just made me jealous :)
posted by : rikkicarey on 6/26/2008 at 4:29 PM Flag For Abuse
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Burning Man is is so over. Everyone thinks it is so cool like a new Woodstock. When something becomes mainstream enough to have port-o-potties it is not artistic anymore but just an excuse for potheads to roam naked and pretend to be artistic and hip. Boring. I remember when the Sundance Festival was a place for cutting edge filmmakers to show their films. Now I think it is sponsered by Mennen Speedstick. My main worry with small kids at place like that are the loud noises of the bands that damage their ears and the drugs. No thanks. If that is the ultimate in cool these days in the USA that is just sad. There are other much more educational and truely artistic venues in the world not overrun with idiots, posers and dope heads. Places with true artists, writers and exhibits. Look for them, dont just follow the big, stupid herd.
posted by : Serene on 6/26/2008 at 5:30 PM Flag For Abuse
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Judgments aside, I'm not one for dry heat or drugs, either.
What bothers me is this: the inconsistency. I don't know if the Babble editors recall, but Kris wrote a piece called "Party Girl" for Babble (which I really liked), which she said that:
"I'm glad I shot some cool pictures at Burning Man, because I barely remember it."
That was her essay about being so stressed out that she jumped "headfirst into some kind of hedonistic adventure (and wow, does it ever arise when you're looking for it), I sure as hell was going to take it. I danced until dawn whenever possible. If there was a rave in the desert, a meteor shower after midnight, or a clothing-optional hot-tub party, I was the first to know about it and the last to leave."
I just wanted to note this.
posted by : SingleMomSeeking on 6/26/2008 at 5:41 PM Flag For Abuse
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Huh. This doesn't seem to be a case of bad parenting to me, either. There are loads of festivals in my neck of the woods where more and more parents are bringing their kids, and as a result, more of those fests are creating some sort of kids' area for them. It's just plain good business for the fest organizers to do that.
Besides....it can't be much worse than that episode of "Malcolm In The Middle", when the whole family went to Burning Man....
8-)
posted by : liprap on 6/26/2008 at 6:05 PM Flag For Abuse
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I'm not surprised people are considering the author to be a truly bad parent. Ignorance and misinformation abound regarding Burning Man. For all of the craziness, it's a very safe place. Like any public event, parents who take their children to it must be vigilant, responsible, sensible, and informed.
My wife-at-the-time and I took my 3-year-old son to Burning Man in 2003, and we had a fantastic time. She and I had plenty of time to go do more adult-oriented things while friends watched our son, and he regularly took outings with our friends to go and explore things. I also took him on bike rides and walks, and hitched rides on art cars. Like the author said, there were plenty of places we could see not to go, but a surprising amount of places that were kid-friendly. He had a number of valuable experiences, and he still talks about it, and asks to go back. From his perspective, it was a playground of colossal proportions. Who wouldn't want to go back?
Burning Man certainly isn't for everyone. If you don't like the heat, dust, the desert - don't go. And clearly it extends beyond many peoples' notions of what acceptable expression is, so if things like nudity freak out, by all means stay home or go to the mall where you'll be more comfortable. If anything, Burning Man has become too mainstream, as its numbers continue to grow with each passing year.
Regarding the sense of neighborliness - it is truly a wonderful phenomenon, and one of the reasons why I go to Burning Man (I've been twice, once with kids, once without). The culture of Burning Man is based on generosity and kindness. But you won't know that until you experience it. You won't know what it's like to help someone who can't find their camp, or cook a meal for an entire camp full of people. People treat each other like human beings out there. I have witnessed, been the recipient of, and participated in acts of selflessness and kindness out there that I didn't even know was possible.
posted by : bigd on 6/26/2008 at 7:25 PM Flag For Abuse
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Hey all,
I'm writing from Australia, and it all sounds wonderful to me, I'm tempted to join you next year! I've had a bit of experience with festivals like this. I've got a couple of comments:
1. Don't knock it til you've been there. Plenty of people are scared of a place that can be so countercultural, so they label it as full of drugs, sex, etc.
2. It's a real headspin for adults being somewhere where the DOMINANT values are of respect, love and openness, rather than competition, greed and suspicion. But kids just feel right at home. It's something you can't do everyday, so these sorts of festivals are really inspiring for those of us who find the everyday world exhausting. Isn't it nice to let your kids know that adults can be loving and respectful, that they can live in the moment and be creative? I think it helps them from an early age to have faith that the world can be wonderful with a bit of effort.
3. kids find nudity pretty normal, or even quite funny and fun if it's in a safe environment. Sex is, of course, not on, but I find with these sorts of events that the community will often guide the people who are being offensive, and they're not afraid to say something if it's needed. This is what safe spaces is all about.
My 3 year old daughter wants to go back to ConFest (our quieter, low-tech hippie festival) every week! She got to dance around like a little bush fairy with her friends, she could walk safely without cars around, she could take her time to paint or play with leaves or just hang around camp. It was a space where time was allowed to stretch out before her in ways that it rarely does in our busy life. We went with another family, we shared kids and we got some slow time, by ourselves, together as a couple and as a family.
Don't be scared of places like these and they might just make your life better as the years go by. That's my 2 cents!
posted by : ceecee on 6/26/2008 at 9:21 PM Flag For Abuse
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A lot of "Bad Parent" columns seem kind of tongue-in-cheek - sort of a "you might call me a bad parent, but here's why I'm not" kind of thing, and I think this one fits right in with that. I saw this column and was excited to read it - and I also knew what the comments would be.
Sigh.
Good for you for being prepared! I am constantly amazed at parents who aren't prepared even for something like a trip to the beach or the baseball game! Kids who are thirsty, sunburned, and don't have shade or shoes - not because they are in the middle of the desert, but because their parents aren't prepared. I've seen worse parents at the park than you were at Burning Man.
posted by : hippygoth on 6/27/2008 at 12:12 PM Flag For Abuse
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you're all a bunch of fucking pussies. i'm sure your precious babies are better off inside your air-conditioned suburban prisons.
posted by : cancermoon on 6/27/2008 at 1:32 PM Flag For Abuse
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Cancermoon - who peed in your cheerios? What's wrong with not liking a hot desert? I'm a very healthy, fit 40 year old who thinks it sounds like hell. My opinion that BM sounds like hell has nothing to do with my kids or anyone else's. Oh, no "air-conditioned suburban prison" for me either - I'm happily urban with ceiling fans whirring overhead.
posted by : BBBGMOM on 6/27/2008 at 1:45 PM Flag For Abuse
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For those who haven't been to Burning Man but assume they know everything about it: a monolithic mass of drugged up orgies -- I offer another analogy that you may be more familiar with: Disneyland.
When you go to Disneyland with a three-year-old, do you take them on Space Mountain, the Matterhorn, and Twilight Zone Tower of Terror? No. Those rides are not appropriate for toddlers (or pregnant women, or anyone who experiences motion sickness). But by the logic of some commenters here, one would have to assume that because parts of Disneyland are inappropriate for the very young, that means they shouldn't set foot in the place at all.
When I go to Disneyland with a small child, I stick to Dumbo, Storybook Land, and the carousel. If I went to Burning Man with a small child, I'd stick to the trampolines, kite flying, and bicycle riding.
I've heard of people taking acid at Disneyland, but that doesn't mean I can't going to take my kid there.
Oh, and "Serene" -- it's intersting to learn that the presence of port-o-potties negates the existence of art. I guess "real" art can only exist where people crap on the ground, right?
posted by : anarchist mama on 6/27/2008 at 3:39 PM Flag For Abuse
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At least when I take my kid to Disneyland I don't have to worry about him getting run over by an art car driven by someone strung out on drugs.
posted by : Spartic on 6/27/2008 at 3:53 PM Flag For Abuse
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"Surely not as irresponsible as homebirthing."
Are you serious? Really? Have you homebirthed? Do you know anyone who has homebirthed or prepared for one? Have you seriously researched it?
Then don't talk and keep this thread on topic. Geez!
posted by : unneceserean2 on 6/27/2008 at 3:56 PM Flag For Abuse
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unneceserean2--I have not homebirthed nor has my wife. Neither of us would (though for different reasons--I am male and she values her safety and the safety of our unborn children).
The reference was to another very popular Bad Parent column from a couple days ago which you posted on several times.
Now, my sincere apologies, back on topic, Your Honor.
posted by : mrb on 6/27/2008 at 4:18 PM Flag For Abuse
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mrb- It was not a Bad Parent column. And yes I posted on it, as did you. So you'll understand, hopefully, that to me throwing that comment out where it wasn't needed was quite annoying! And if you'd like to refer to me as 'Your Honor' you are more than welcome to!
posted by : unneceserean2 on 6/28/2008 at 11:18 AM Flag For Abuse
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I've always said there are two kinds of people in the world: those who go to Burning Man and those who couldn't be paid to go. I fall into the latter category, but we have many friends who have gone for years.
My husband and I joke that kids of BM lovers will probably have a good time there, and kids of BM loathers probably wouldn't. I think Hippygoth has the best point - just be prepared. Make sure your kid is protected from heat, dust, etc and focus on the kid areas, and they should be fine.
Also, some of our friends go for the artistic experience, and others go for the more...er...'adult'..experiences. And the adult experiencers don't want to bring kids anyway, so I think the fear of kids inadvertently walking into an orgy or something are probably overblown.
posted by : NoHo Mom on 6/28/2008 at 2:03 PM Flag For Abuse
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unneceserean2--since you are the self-appointed decider of which comments are "needed" (those you agree with?) and which are not (those you disagreee with), it appears that 'Your Honor' is indeed an appropriate moniker for you, no?
posted by : mrb on 6/30/2008 at 10:53 AM Flag For Abuse
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mrb-- I'm sure you feel certain comments are appropriate or not appropriate as well, and I also sure that you have things you agree with as well... are you upset with me because I was taken aback by your comment, and responded? So sorry, dear. But I truly feel it was offensive to me, yes, because I disagree with you and it didn't have much to do with the topic in my opinion... which is the only opinion I can comment on.
I tried to respond lightly to the moniker you chose for me. I'm very lighthearted at this point. But it seems you are quite annoyed that I wasn't upset by your name calling. Too bad. I think it was funny.
I'm now ending this silliness. Peace.
posted by : unneceserean2 on 6/30/2008 at 11:39 AM Flag For Abuse
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The hostility towards Burning Man doesn't make sense to me--while other kids spend Saturday afternoon being dragged around Sam's Club while their parents shop for tires, she's giving her child this magical one-of-a-kind experience. Didn't we crave adventure and novelty when we were young? Disney might encourage imagination, but Burning Man encourages actual creativity and social engagement, and I'm impressed that she went through the trouble to share it with her kid.
posted by : sarahgomom on 6/30/2008 at 1:26 PM Flag For Abuse
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Peace be upon you, too, unneceserean2.
posted by : mrb on 6/30/2008 at 2:18 PM Flag For Abuse
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Do not comment on something until you have done THOROUGH research - not only from biased views, but actually looked at all of the perspectives, alternative information, etc.
Simple. Make that your life's guideline.
That includes comments on Burning Man, Homebirth (especially) and everything else you nitwits have misinformation on.
posted by : sdafa on 7/2/2008 at 8:39 AM Flag For Abuse
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Good grief, sdafa! You only comment on issues and events that you have "thorougly researched?" Either you are an exhaustive and prolific researcher or you don't talk much. I don't need to know one bit about Burning Man to know I'd hate it. I am miserable when the temperatures are above eighty degrees. So. If a desert is 96 degrees? I'm gonna hate it. I suppose you researched all the commenters here to the extent that you feel confident in labeling us "nitwits." Nice.
posted by : BBBGMOM on 7/3/2008 at 3:22 PM Flag For Abuse
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Wow. I don't see this as a moral or ethical issue as much as an issue of practicality. I wouldn't take my son to BM because it makes no sense to take him there. It's an adult festival. If there are provisions and activities for kids then it's only out of the necessity and realization that some folks would bring their kids anyway.
Kids are very resilient and adapt easily, if fairly intelligent. In other words, they can makes lemonade with lemons. To me BM is a lemon for kids. So they do their best they can in the dust and heat, while mama sits by and wishes she were tripping with the others and dancing till dawn.
In short, get a babysitter and be real.
A parent who has been to BM is returning to experience the same joy, fun, and freedom of before, but that can't happen as easily with kids. It's a lose/lose situation.
And to whoever suggested that the alternative is to go to Sam's Club and shop for tires is an idiot. There is a LOT a family can do in the name of art and expression without packing up and going out to the desert with a lot of adults using drugs. Children can't understand that. And you can't teach a child boundaries and responsibility if you allow them to witness adults behaving in a largely illegal way. On the other hand, consenting adults have every right to let their freak flags fly. This is something children are taught, and EARN, as they grow.
If you truly care about art and expression, you don't need BM. You can have a household and life full to the brim of artistic possibilities and adventures. it is typical of educated fauxhemians to laud the virtues of crap like BM (which is a great party, but not much more) as an "enriching" experience. Who's the poseur now?
Oh yeah, Disney sucks a big one too.
You people need to quit being sheep and looking for somebody else to be artistic for you, do it yourself.
posted by : YouPeopleAreFullOfIt on 7/4/2008 at 11:40 PM Flag For Abuse
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I have never been to burning man, but I considered going with my wife and two kids this year. We have concluded they are too young, but I wouldn't rule it out.
Consider this, naysayers -- camping with children might be tossed aside at first glance as a lousy experience for many of the reasons you describe: you are exposed to the elements, pouring rain insects, snakes, sometimes bigger mammals; you are removing yourself from immediate medical assistance, and exposing yourself to unexpected risk, and so on.
And yet camping with kids is one of the greatest experiences you can have as a parent or a kid. I lead canoe and hiking trips with kids for many years, and I can tell you, it's a magical experience all around.
Now let's compare that to staying in an RV (one option at burning man) with first aid facilities and lots of caring adults around.
I think it's all about how you approach it -- experiencing some hardship (like hot weather or what have you) can be a great growing experience for children if they are in the company of caring, attentive adults. I think you, mr. you people are full of it, clearly have your own axe to grind her from some reason.
posted by : inclined_to_do_It on 8/25/2008 at 3:31 PM Flag For Abuse
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No burning man for me....it's too far away and I have low heat tolerance. But there is NOTHING wrong with taking a child to a festival. The people are overwhelmingly kind (drugs or no drugs, it's none of my business what others do to their body at a festival or elsewhere as long as they don't bother me or my child), the atmosphere is creative and magical, and it's a unique alternative to the commercialism-ravaged black holes of resorts and amusement parks (no offense to people who enjoy them, just not my thing).
Rock on Sister Mama!
posted by : ingridsmom on 7/4/2009 at 11:27 AM Flag For Abuse
