feedback for "Reform School"

1. I realize that this site is primarily liberal, but if I wanted to read an Obama booster piece, I know where to find them. Sheesh. I thought I was reading a thoughtful article on how to improve education, not on "Vote for Obama."

   posted by : Dwtintx on 7/21/2008 at 8:12 AM Flag For Abuse

2. Well, since NCLB has such a big effect on our children's future, and teachers, it's good to have things like this pointed out. Perhaps if McCain didn't have contempt for teachers, the article wouldn't read so "pro-Obama".

   posted by : poppa_d on 7/21/2008 at 1:00 PM Flag For Abuse

3. I completely agree with this article. Because of NCLB, the school where I work has had budget cuts (we are in a very poor area, with many English as a Second Language students). We have had to lay off teachers to keep the district running. This has led to 31 children in a kindergarten classroom. Smaller class sizes lead to greater learning, and thus fewer children "left behind".

   posted by : teachk on 7/21/2008 at 2:21 PM Flag For Abuse

4. Thank you for this article - perhaps the opinions expressed within the article and within this site are predominantly liberal, but I didn't see it as a booster piece - Obama is only one of many folks quoted, and of course the consevative views are going to be softer on current administrative policy.
   
   I just finished a Master's degree in Texas that brought me in contact with literally hundreds of teachers overall, and in long-term contact with at least 100 GREAT teachers. I heard not a SINGLE good thing about NCLB during my time in this position, and it was not because these teachers are "poorly performing" - all met and EXCEEDED the "highly qualified" expectations laid out by the law. In the case of Texas and most other states, cities and school boards, I have to agree with Matt Miller in the Atlantic Monthly article "First, Kill all the School Boards" (and with Obama, b/c this is what I thought he meant) that the real issue is not sweeping (if unfunded) mandates such as NCLB that raise a challenge to teachers/schools/students, but to the school boards and other local mandates that follow along, shackling the teachers to a detailed miscellany of standards and requirements that kill the joy of all.
   
   Teachers are easily inspired, highly giving and creative individuals - all they need is a "Jean-Luc Picard" to give them some direction and say "make it so" (as in inspire them to get their students to the moon, to love to read, whatever the challenge), and we would all be amazed at the creative and cheap ways they would solve the problems themselves.

   posted by : kendrabobendra on 7/21/2008 at 2:38 PM Flag For Abuse

5. Erase that political bit from the article and you still have a "meat and potatoes" version of why NCLB is ruining education. No matter what regulations are enacted, teachers will never have the power to change kids' home lives without parents stepping up the plate and delivering on moral guidance and common sense education.
   
   Schools are not day care facilities. Until we bring back some kind of consequence for non-performance and incentive for positive performance, the good kids will continue to suffer at the likes of the bad kids who continue to waste resources and resist learning how to become responsible.
   
   NCLB does NOTHING except to increase the amount of bureaucratic rhetoric without proof of positive impact to the system.

   posted by : lindenboy on 7/21/2008 at 2:48 PM Flag For Abuse

6. NCLB is a travesty as currently executed in public schools. Outrageous amounts of rote memorization are expected in Kindergarten, and tasks which are clearly developmentally too advanced are foisted on them. Some 5 year olds may be ready to work a LITTLE bit with pencils & writing,but for most 5 yos if you are having to draw a map for the kid to make the letter E - they aren't ready!! Developmentally you can see when they are ready, as by the next year it 'clicks' and they can do the work without a map of the letter because their brain is closer to being ready for that kind of work.
   
   Forcing more faster and earlier is a disservice to all. Top that off with a seasonsed teacher's observation that she is currently spending 20% of her classroom time TESTING and EVALUATING. That was 2 years ago - she may be spending even more now.
   
   The idea may be solid but the execution is a joke and needs to stop. Lots of money spent on what? Smells like Halliburton!

   posted by : charmschool on 7/21/2008 at 3:07 PM Flag For Abuse

7. I realize that there are major flaws in the legislation. However, I've seen proof that it's working. I've toured and written about numerous high-poverty, high-minority schools that are extremely high-performing and wouldn't be successful were it not for the funding and requirements of NCLB. The administration and faculty of these schools will tell you the same thing. These educators and their students are dispelling the myth that certain children, because of race or zip code, can't learn. The truth is, every child can learn at high levels if they are taught to high levels by a caring, competent teacher who is supported with resources and ongoing professional development.
   Ultimately, the success or failure of the law really depends on how the states set up their accountability and assessment systems. Some states, like Alabama where I've seen success in both rural and urban schools, got it right. Sadly, most states did not and the experiences described here are the result.

   posted by : jennp on 7/21/2008 at 3:08 PM Flag For Abuse

8. Thank you for writing this. NCLB is ruining public education, and increasing the likelihood that teachers will leave the profession within the first three years.
   
   Under current NCLB legislation, control of what is taught in the classroom is given to people and organizations many times removed from the children they claim to serve. As a result, NCLB reflects the views primarily of business and industry leaders rather than those of parents and working educators.
   
   Current NCLB legislation ignores the root causes of poor educational development, blaming teachers and students for problems over which they have little or no control.
   
   NCLB relies on market forces to improve schools, which suggests that learning must be manipulated like tangible goods and services.
   
   NCLB legislation forces schools to follow a rigid testing format, with no flexibility for imagination, creativity or individuality of the students or their teachers.
   
   NCLB legislation emphasizes minimum educational standards rather than maximum development of human potential, and results in many unintended consequences - increased drop-out rates, loss of teacher autonomy and professionalism, negative student reaction to excessive rote instruction and drill, increased costs of testing and test-related materials, the destructiveness of the “failure” label.
   
   http://www.educatorroundtable.org/
   
   http://robinatwoodsweblog.blogspot.com/2007/05/id-rather-learn-from-one-bird-how-to.html

   posted by : teacherlady on 7/21/2008 at 3:25 PM Flag For Abuse

9. I'm one of the few parents who saw the effects of the Bush administration and the No Child Left Behind policy while I was in high school (I graduated in 2005, I became a parent in Dec 2006). Before Bush was elected to office my high school had a flourishing student body, on site daycare and great teachers. After he was elected to office things started to change. With a population of students living below the poverty line, minorities, special education students made the impact of "No Child Left Behind" widely felt among teachers. A few left the teaching professional altogether including my principal the year after I graduated. The on site daycare was removed. The great teachers who left were replaced by teachers who had just graduated from local colleges and in my opinion could not teach or challenge their students. The focus became teaching for the test, disciplining students (even with legal action) and creating a negative environment for students. Sports programs were effected and our football team went from being one of the best in the state to being one of the last. This happened across the board for our sports, arts and science programs. Where previously the large student body of students who were excelling or doing pretty well kept the rest of the school afloat, now the students who were having problems in every area became the focus and the school started to sink. Students like me who previously had gotten away with breaking the rules because of their high test scores in every area where threatened by the school system to be thrown out of their classes. I was almost thrown out of an economics class I should not have even needed to take (failed an entirely different class because a teacher refused to let me make up busy work, yet passed the AP test for the same class with flying colors) because of my poor attendance record, only to get the highest grade on the final. The reason why students like me were allowed to get away with breaking rules was because most of the teacher recognized underprivileged students like me were often absent because we did have parents around to take us to the doctor, drive us to school if we missed the bus, faced abuse at home and a wide range of issues. The year I graduated as things started to dramatically shift, students who excelled started to fail. One of my friends who planned on graduating a year early and was already excepted into NYU failed a Physics class and was not allowed to graduate. She failed because she was often absent due to medical issues (which anyone could tell, she was almost completely bald)and was not allowed to make up the work she missed. The year before she would have been allowed to make up that work, if not excused from the assignments altogether as long as she passed the final, she would also have been offered tutoring.
   
   Accountability also should not be measured by a test score. I know from taking these tests on any given test day students don't show up or don't take the test. Since these tests are not required for graduation some students randomly answer the questions given. Even though I had high SAT scores, had passed two college level English classes, I still received a low score on my English state exam. I choose to retake it. Other students in lower level classes who were not passing received higher scores them I did, including someone I knew who got an 800 (total score) on his SAT. So these tests are not reliable indicators of how well a school is doing, especially when these tests require a hand written essay when most schools require students to always type their essays. I am sure I lost points on my test for bad handwriting, if my essay portion was not thrown out completely.
   
   The focus for schools should be preparing children and teens to survive in this world. My school did a great job at that even though I decided to stop attending college I still continue to think about things my teacher taught me. Now I work at a health food store, I became a manager in less then a year, I'm only 20. I would be lost without the time management skills I gained in high school.

   posted by : dhsredhead on 7/21/2008 at 3:34 PM Flag For Abuse

10. Schools should seperate students based on itelligence and ability rather then grouping the hard learners with the easy learners...everyone suffers when they do this. Half the school year seems to be based on prepping for the standardized testing. What a waste of childrens time. I could care less if my children know the standerdized tests. I am more interested in the growth of their minds not their ability to memorize mind numbing garbage they will have no use for as adults.
    No child left behind is a mere cover up for programming a nation of bots that all easily controlled. It is behavior modification. Mental prepping to follow the dotted line.

    posted by : carlie on 7/21/2008 at 3:43 PM Flag For Abuse

11. I, too, was disappointed to hear the political "now you know who to vote for" rhetoric at the end. We do have to remember, that the system we had before NCLB was failing, too, so I don't think it single handedly "ruined American education". However, I do agree with most of the article. I am a teacher in a relatively high performing school, and even with our good performance we are all tired of testing pressure. I think that the IDEAS behind the NCLB initiatives are great, but there is absolutely no fair way to actually implement them. When a student is being tested ONCE a year on whether or not they understood a whole year's worth of information, we are bound to find faliure. As the article stated, most teachers are so easily inspired to be creative and I, too, love to get my kids excited about something, but when I am constantly reminded of "THE TEST" by the many data workshops we have to attend throughout the year, it is very hard to KEEP being inspired.
    
    As teachers, we are also tested -and given bonuses- based on how our children "succeed" on our statewide test. I missed getting the bonus last year by ONE point by ONE child. His parents got divorced that school year... and that was not supposed to affect him? So not only did that lower his "success" according to the state, but it also affected how much money I received that year. It is quite a let down to put your heart and soul into giving all you can and then be told you weren't good enough. Very uninspiring to say the least.
    
    I have many solutions. If we MUST test (which is a possibility- it's hard to measure anything without data of some sort) then they should have the child's success rated more than once a year in more than one different way. And, the government should take away money attached to a school's (or teacher's) success on that test. When someone's paycheck is on the line, it makes the test priority no matter how many times the state says that we don't have to "teach to the test". When we get paid based on that test, you better believe we will do what we can to show "success". Parents also need to be more involved. Can we measure their success somehow? However, the easiest, and best, solution is to put teaching back into the hands of those who know it best- the teachers. They need to get rid of the "bad" ones and keep rewarding the good ones by letting us know that we are doing a good job.
    
    After teaching for 8 years, I am now considering getting out of the school system. The politics of the institution are becoming too much to handle. I'm tired of being treated as though I can't be trusted to teach. Instead, I will find a way to teach on my own terms and in the way that I know is the best for my students.

    posted by : KTame on 7/21/2008 at 4:31 PM Flag For Abuse

12. Yeah, I'll chime in that the political stuff undermined the authority of the article, and I'm not in disagreement with the points made at all (including what each candidate has said, which is what it is). It's just that when I got to that point I suddenly questioned whether this was a partisan commentary rather than what it was presented as, which made it feel weaker. I guess the GWB side-comment early on should have been a tipoff too, even if most people would agree with it.
    
    As for the points made, this is all the more reason that more and more people are going to homeschool - to avoid all this nonsense. Unfortunately, that will just concentrate the problems for the ones who can't, which are the ones that were supposed to be helped anyway...and so it goes. But at the same time, I will have to do what's best for my own kid, to the best of my ability, when the time comes.

    posted by : CG on 7/21/2008 at 7:53 PM Flag For Abuse

13. I don't see how the political stuff "undermined the article." She was reporting the candidates' stances on NCLB, which in an election year strikes me as being pretty damn relevant to the subject.

    posted by : Knittymom on 7/21/2008 at 9:22 PM Flag For Abuse

14. CG, how could anyone endeavor to write an article about NCLB without mentioning GWB? It was a major initiative of his first term.
    
    And I agree with Knittymom that discussing the two major party candidate's positions on NCLB is not only appropriate, but necessary. My God, the NCLB act was created by politicians. You can't avoid making the discussion political.

    posted by : poppa_d on 7/21/2008 at 11:34 PM Flag For Abuse

15. Oh, of course - I should clarify that the side-comment I was referring to was the "as has been the case with other Bush policies" aside, rather than to explaining his role in NCLB. The comment is true enough, but seemed extraneous and revealing. I mean, the author is certainly free to argue for electing Obama, but like others have said, I don't read Babble for election opinions. I felt the article was strong and informative until the end when it turned into an editorial, which I would have skipped, because vote-for-so-and-so, blah, yawn, it's everywhere else, but that's JMHO!

    posted by : CG on 7/22/2008 at 12:32 AM Flag For Abuse

16. Let's not forget one horrifying fact that NCLB has brought to fruition--if ANY public education institution refuses to give ALL personal information on students to the US military it faces immediate withdrawal of government funding. It's lost in the pages of NCLB, around page 600. Hopefully, that far into all the jargon we'll fail to take notice and unwillingly ready our children for war games with the false promises of recruiters in our children's learning environment.

    posted by : mommyburd on 7/22/2008 at 8:33 AM Flag For Abuse

17. The ridiculous emphasis on testing and the denial of money to the very schools that need it the most is the main reason why I opted out of public school completely for my daughter, AND there are many private schools, Waldorf, Montessori, etc. that have no testing at all. The whole funds=performance premise of the act is punitive, and narrows the scope of education even further. Good bye, art, music, P.E. And, yes, quoting both candidates in an election year is perfectly appropriate.

    posted by : LeighS on 7/22/2008 at 10:46 AM Flag For Abuse

18. I work in textbook publishing, and the focus on testing is pushing out everything that is not tested. We have had several projects canceled in the last year because they were social studies projects. Social studies is not tested through state exams, SAT or ACT, so it gets less funding and hence fewer sales, so publishers aren't motivated to pursue this area of study. They're being hit just as hard by the economy as any other segment of business.

    posted by : Owensmom on 7/22/2008 at 1:58 PM Flag For Abuse

19. Thank you, JennP, for expressing a dissenting opinion. I have worked in public schools for sixteen years both in Los Angeles and Boston, and, while I agree that there are flaws in NCLB and its implementation, there is no doubt in my mind that it has resulted is a renewed emphasis on academic achievement in urban schools which is critical if we are ever going to erase the achievement gap. For far too long, schools and districts were not required to assess whether or not students were making academic progress. It was all too easy to maintain the status quo, with vast numbers of students passing through school without the skills necessary to open the doors to college. Here in Massachusetts, the curriculum frameworks outline what students should know and be able to do, but they don't prescribe how to get there, so teachers still have the freedom to be creative about their methodology. And quite frankly, that kind of road map is a good thing -- while I value their creativity, knowledge, and talents, I don't want my children's teachers individually making the decisions what to teach them -- what's to prevent them learning the same science or history year after year?
    
    In my experience, through its testing and accountability mandates NCLB has put a positive pressure on my school and others in our city to increase the achievement levels of our urban kids (as measured both by test scores as well as by the work they do day in and day out), and get them more in line with those being achieved by their suburban counterparts. Sadly, this has not been the case everywhere, and schools and districts need more funding and technical support (neither of which have been properly thought through under NCLB).

    posted by : slak on 7/22/2008 at 4:44 PM Flag For Abuse

20. There are many excellent comments here. I'm frankly surprised to read any favorable comments from educators, but I guess that any policy, no matter how ill-conceived, can work for at least a minority.
    
    I do know a number of teachers personally -- many of them truly inspired educators, the kind this country needs -- and they are uniform in their harsh criticism of NCLB. Their arguments have already been made by the author of this article and many of the commentors here, so I won't repeat them. However, I might add a suggestion for a fresh angle (and a welcome bit of levity) on this important topic.
    
    Author Donald Gallinger (THE MASTER PLANETS, 2008), a high school English teacher of 23 years' experience, writes hilariously about the reality of teaching kids today. You might want to have a look:
    
    http://www.donaldgallinger.com/dons-blog.html
    
    I sincerely doubt that the real problems in our educational system can be solved with the simplistic policies laid out in NCLB. Indeed, I think at this point we have VERY sufficient evidence that they have not been.

    posted by : donitamblyn on 7/24/2008 at 10:43 AM Flag For Abuse

21. It's good to see someone notice the difference between nice/naive intentions and the actual realities of life. Improve our schools? Great idea. Presume that whatever stupid thing we do in its name is working? Bad idea. We've put the public school system into the position of cloning mediocrity, ignoring the differences amongst children, disregarding the real virtue of educating wise human beings, and treating our kids as 'things' that can be improved and upgraded like products on an assembly line. If doing a good job of educating our citizens, rather than doing a lousy job of educating mere economic servants, is 'too liberal', then it's well past time that conservatism was on the wane.

    posted by : Andrew Cort on 7/25/2008 at 5:37 PM Flag For Abuse

22. A little history lesson:) NCLB probably got it's beginnings in my state, Florida. During Jeb Bush's first term as gov. the cabnet head for the Dept. of Educ. (FL) was a Mr. Brogan. Mr. Brogan did a "misinformation" campaign about the failings of the "American" education system. Mr. Brogan compared our overall scores with other countries and showed how much better their scores were. When our math and science teams compete, we do very well. Mr. Brogan was telling the truth, but only part of it. Those countries track average students to a trade, with no chance to bloom late and go to college. He explained the problem was the fault of teachers and teachers unions. To fix the problem he proposed a state wide standardized test to measure the performace of our students, thereby identifing which teachers and schools were failing to do their jobs. It's called FCAT, Florida Comprehensive Assesment Test. The forerunner of NCLB.
    
    FCAT helped get Mr. Brogan elected to Lt. Gov. and helped Jeb Bush get elected again. George Bush picked up the idea and pushed NCLB. A whole industry developed around FCAT, NCLB and charter schools. I suggest you track the money around these new industries.
    
    I'm a certified teacher working in Florida, and I say FCAT and NCLB has hurt, not helped education in my state. Follow the NCLB to its conclusion and it is not possible to meet the requirements.

    posted by : brownmrscience newsvine com on 7/25/2008 at 9:29 PM Flag For Abuse

23. "Track the money" -- a very good idea. I've read that McGraw-Hill got major contracts to produce NCLB teaching materials, and that the McGraw-Hill family are personal friends with the Bush family. Have a look at one of several articles that have been about this:
    
    http://www.trelease-on-reading.com/whatsnu_bush-mcgraw.html

    posted by : donitamblyn on 7/27/2008 at 1:19 PM Flag For Abuse

24. I'm a children's librarian in a public library. We never have visits by anyone but K and Pre-K classes during the school year anymore, because the rest of them are (and I quote two principals and a bunch of teachers) "too busy taking tests". And they all cited NCLB as the reason. Great. So the tests are keeping the kids so busy that they can't visit us, learn to use a library, learn research skills, or even get a library card so they can check out materials and (gasp) do something fun and educational. For that matter, they can't access our offsite resources (much better than the local school system's) without a library card, either. And I'm told that the 2nd graders at a nearby school are required to take tests which were designed for children in 4th grade and up, and which the test designers specifically stated could be harmful to the development of younger children if administered to, say, grade 2 students. None of this happened before NCLB.

    posted by : librarywoman on 8/27/2009 at 1:07 PM Flag For Abuse