feedback for "Bad Parent: Fight Club"

1. I don't know, I think it can be pretty stressful for kids to see their parents insulting each other or engaging in name-calling. I remember trying to defend my mom against my dad's unfair accusations, and have seen my frequently bickering friends' four-year-old ask them anxiously, "Is everyone all right?" It's pretty heartbreaking, actually.
   
   I can see a case for allowing respectful disagreements to happen in front of kids, but if they see you fighting dirty with each other, they're going to grow up thinking it's okay to fight dirty. Tempers are sometimes lost and slip-ups happen, but I sure wouldn't go so far as to celebrate it.

   posted by : violetbeauregarde on 7/31/2008 at 1:09 AM Flag For Abuse

2. good point, violet.
   
   i think there's a big difference between expressing anger or frustration and showing contempt and hate.
   
   it's one thing to have a heated argument and it's another to resort to name-calling and barbs.
   
   i think that it's perfectly OK for a child to see a heated argument, even with yelling. but it's important to maintain a certain baseline of respect.
   
   when it devolves into bile is when i think it is no longer healthy expression or venting.

   posted by : k1 on 7/31/2008 at 2:50 PM Flag For Abuse

3. "Life is stressful", so you pick a fight with your spouse? Dude, do some yoga.
   
   We've fought in front of our daughter, twice. Both times she was crying and begging us to stop yelling, though there was no name-calling, violence, or more than everyday swearing (we're admitted pottymouths). We were in the car, so there wasn't anywhere to go, but I don't ever want to do that to her again.
   
   And memories of my parents' fighting in front of us leave me feeling the same things I felt then: panic, distress, fear. It didn't teach me how to fight: it taught me how it feels to think your whole world is going to dissolve, because I was too young to realize they'd never get divorced.

   posted by : baconsmom on 7/31/2008 at 3:00 PM Flag For Abuse

4. One thing I keep in mind:
   
   The moment when a 4-year-old asks his/her parents if they're all right has a heartbreaking effect, of course, but the situation doesn't (and shouldn't) stop there. When children see their parents apologize and forgive each other and then eventually let the situation defuse, the child is learning invaluable lessons. It is also a chance to reassure her that Mom & Dad are having an argument, they are angry at each other, but they still love each other, and most of all they are not angry at him/her and those Big Things don't change.
   
   I know the books say kids need to view their Mom and Dad (and other adults) as unflappable, never losing control. But in my experience at least, that is such an unrealistic model. My mom taught me to bottle up, avoid conflict, appease others. That turned out to be BS and I became a doormat. I don't want to teach my kids the same thing, and so I have to teach them how to stick up for themselves and proactively resolve conflicts. Sometimes that involves fighting back.

   posted by : julie00 on 7/31/2008 at 3:22 PM Flag For Abuse

5. We learn by our mistakes and hopefully we don't repeat them, and if we do then it is yet another lesson learned.
   Isn't that what we want to teach our children. We want them to express themselves. We ask them "to use their words".
   
   We all have the right to get angry. We all have the right to express our anger, but we don't ever have the right to be cruel.
   Nor do we ever want to teach that our children.

   posted by : LisaAW on 7/31/2008 at 3:43 PM Flag For Abuse

6. I learned to argue, big time. My husband learned that happy couples never argue, but he is also very good at it. My kids hate it when we argue--always have. Does it scar them? Did it scar me? Did it scar him? Absolutlely. There are better ways to resolve our differences- as we just learned at the Relationship Rich Seminar we just got back from. We didn't have the answers and decide to seek out a third party for help.
   (Therapy helped only slightly in the past)
   And I agree with baconsmom. Taking your stress out on your spouse by picking a fight might make you feel better, and your spouse may seem ok with it at the time, but it can chip away at what is good. It would be a shame if you found out years from now that what was fine for you, she just barely tolerated --and one day decided- no more. Now there's an example for the kids.
   
   Examples start very early. You don't have to remember the details to get the message, "fighting is scarey", "anger is bad". The message very often can be different to different children depending on their particular temperament. So the fighting that I saw left some scars for me, but they are nothing compared to the scars they left on one sibling. Yelling in front of the kids is like playing roulette.

   posted by : studio4moms on 7/31/2008 at 4:25 PM Flag For Abuse

7. Regular fighting (arguing) is a normal part of marriage, at least mine and everyone's I know.
   Seems like the key points are simple:
   1) Fight, but don't disrespect your spouse
   2) Nothing physical
   3) Make sure kid is reassured mommie and daddy love each other, but that adults fight sometimes
   4) Most important: make sure kid sees you make up (not make up sex, mind you!)

   posted by : mrb on 7/31/2008 at 5:38 PM Flag For Abuse

8. This is often a hypocridical issue. It's easy for some couples to get away with moving to another room to argue or holding their tempers. However, we have been living with other people in small homes since our relationship began. Moving into another room is simply not an option and at my daughter's age it would be neglect. Simply holding our tongues is not an option either in the time and place where arguements happen. I would be dismissing my own feels to just shut up and suck it up when my partner is doing things that really bother me. I owe it to my daughter not to be the role model of the doormat.

   posted by : dhsredhead on 7/31/2008 at 9:47 PM Flag For Abuse

9. Here, here, Darrin. I agree with you completely that we need to ease up on ourselves and on whether our every argument would or could have an impact on our kids. I realize I have a conviction bias that arguing is okay (because I do it, and can't seem to help it, so God help me if I see it otherwise!). BUT I so happen to agree that our children cannot always be the entire motivating factor behind our every thought and deed. We are human; some of us are more dramatic than others. I think being authentic in front of your kids is more important and vital than trying to play some role wherein you behave very differently from who you really are. I too grew up with parents' fighting; I never enjoyed hearing it, but I think it did give me something positive, in that I realized marriage and people and parents are not perfect. There's something to be said for imparting some of that reality to your children. Within reason, of course. And your apology/forgiveness point is well-taken--let them see that too. So important for us hotheads!

   posted by : crabmommy on 7/31/2008 at 11:25 PM Flag For Abuse

10. ugh, and sorry for misspelling your name, Darren.

    posted by : crabmommy on 7/31/2008 at 11:25 PM Flag For Abuse

11. Just to clarify, I don't think anyone in this thread has actually advocated bottling up one's feelings, being a doormat, or even, in fact, necessarily taking the argument to the other room. I think the crucial thing is to avoid those really hurtful hallmarks of "bad" fighting: calling your partner names, labeling, belittling, etc.
    
    Agree with everyone about the importance of making up afterwards, and showing that the world doesn't have to end just because there was a disagreement.
    
    baconsmom, I remember having those childhood feelings, too. You describe them perfectly.

    posted by : violetbeauregarde on 8/1/2008 at 2:55 AM Flag For Abuse

12. How in the world do you expect to teach your kids that name calling is not okay when you openly do it to your spouse?
    Those sorts of conversations are not okay in front of children, full stop. No one is saying that occasional disagreements aren't bound to happen, but be adults and take it outside.

    posted by : spartic on 8/1/2008 at 3:18 PM Flag For Abuse

13. My earliest memories are of my parents fighting. I think that says it all.

    posted by : chantalart on 8/1/2008 at 10:11 PM Flag For Abuse

14. I'm really glad to see this article. My 5 year old son has witnessed some arguments between my fiance and myself. While some should have waited till later (my own anger issues can result in some nasty behavior) others I think are par for the course. My fiance's parents supposedly NEVER argued in front of their kids, and as a result, my fiance seems to think (he has since been dissuaded from this train of thought) that healthy couples don't argue, period. I think the biggest struggle for parents these days is striking a balance between a safe-feeling environment and a realistic set of expectations for the real world. Our grandparents' generation knew the real world all too well, all too young. A lot of our parents' and my generation (this is subjective, I am an exceptionally young parent so my parents were baby-boomers) were so sheltered that they were a bit shell-shocked by the real world. I'd like to raise my kids knowing that there IS safety and stability in the world, but it's not all peaches and cream, either. I'm glad to see someone else feels the same!

    posted by : kgowen725 on 8/2/2008 at 9:25 AM Flag For Abuse

15. The way I see it is that arguing in front of the kids is regrettable, but unavoidable if you live in a house as small as ours! We try not to, but sometimes it's inevitable.
    
    I personally prefer to clear the air than fake happy. I think that to take the passive aggressive stance of letting the anger simmer under the surface until the kids go to bed just puts everyone on edge for the whole day. Kids aren't dumb, they know when their parents are faking, so I prefer to be genuine.
    
    My philosophy on this is shaped by growing up around domestic violence. Believe it or not, feeling the tension build and build before the violence had more of a long lasting effect on my mental health than the violence itself. Knowing it was coming, that there was nothing I could do to stop it and straining to hear the first punch after bedtime is torturous. It's left me with serious anxiety issues. I'm not passing that on if I can help it.
    
    So my daughter will see my partner and I argue. She will see that it is normal to argue in healthy relationships. She will see what is a normal level of dispute in a loving and respectful relationship. She will learn how to negotiate, compromise and forgive. She will learn that her parents are fallible human beings.
    
    I think it's far more damaging to present your relationship in an unrealistic light to your kids than it is to just be honest.

    posted by : dizietsma on 8/2/2008 at 11:21 AM Flag For Abuse

16. One point I would like to share on bad parenting, our kids are watching us like hawks. If you lie about speeding, call in sick when you are not really sick, or talk about the shortcuts you took on your taxes, don't be at all surprised to see your kids testing out the same techniques.

    posted by : Emily2007 on 8/5/2008 at 9:21 AM Flag For Abuse

17. Yes I agree with Emily2007. Very good point. Arguing isn't the only thing kids can sometimes absorb. I see people speeding and talking on cell phones in their cars all the time with their children in the cars with them. People, their are limits to everything. I believe kids need to see their parents have DISAGREEMENTS sometimes, but in small doses. All out fist fights and name calling is just not the way to go. I saw my dad beat my mom mostly all my life and as a result, I grew up having no respect for men. I got over it, yes, but I learned that if I ever wanted to have a decent relationship with my current hubby, we both had to grow up. Being a mother-to-be who is due any day now has really opened my eyes and I'm glad the writer of the article has touched this subject. Kids need to learn that life will have obstacles and that their will be other kids who will disagree with their views. If they see their parents actually handle situations like these in a mature manner, they will handle them in a mature manner too.

    posted by : cleoc on 9/19/2008 at 6:43 PM Flag For Abuse