feedback for "Bad Parent: Unschooling"

1. I am about as open-minded as it comes, and an AP hippie Mom to boot but.... wow. This is self-indulgence taken to the next level. If you feel there are issues with our current educational systems, then you are in good company. Feel free to work towards reform. Be active in your child's learning.And yes! expose him to the big bright world out there. But the consequences your son will reap as a result of having no formal education is beyond words. This is really heartbreaking.

   posted by : sassinaglass on 9/18/2008 at 1:57 AM Flag For Abuse

2. Somebody call CPS on this woman. That child needs to be placed with a parent not some adult that thinks she is still childless.

   posted by : PeterPan on 9/18/2008 at 4:13 AM Flag For Abuse

3. Get a grip, people!!
   I actually applaud this writer's honesty. Come on, you know it's so much easier to dump your kid at school and pick them up at 3pm than to have to entertain and educate them all day. I think you haters are missing the point here. There are many ways to give a child an education, spending the day with your kid and opening their eyes to all the city has to offer doesn't sound like such a bad one to me. In fact- I wish I had the patience to do more of it myself.

   posted by : bvillemama on 9/18/2008 at 10:35 AM Flag For Abuse

4. There are other alternatives to public schools that do not "squash" learning, like Waldorf, Montessori, Emilio Reggio, etc. I think that children need their own world, a world of friends and grown-ups that they negotiate and learn from on their own. I agree that public schools are lacking, but I still have a bit of the "wow" when her child sleeps all morning long.

   posted by : LeighS on 9/18/2008 at 10:37 AM Flag For Abuse

5. The thing is, bvillemama, it doesn't really sound like she spends her day entertaining and educating this kid.

   posted by : Walker on 9/18/2008 at 10:50 AM Flag For Abuse

6. I don’t think she’s as bad as everyone here is making her out to be. I wouldn’t do some of the things she does. Yes, this article is nothing more than an excercize in self-aggrandisement - yes your son is so much cooler and smarter and funnier than ours because he likes Juno and not Monsters Inc. I also think it silly and pretentious to have your kid out in NY bars late into the night. But being pretentious is not a sign of bad parenting. She was probably that way before her son was born. Her son is reading, counting and he seems happy and he has friends. What more can anyone ask?
   
   Also, I fear all this edumication at too young an age is not healthy for any child, even the bright ones. Kindergarten, these days, is too focussed on learning through structured methods. I didn’t have a desk in kindergarten and I didn’t learn to read until grade one.
   
   I’ve known kids who were home schooled in this loose and lazy way. Education by library card I call it. They turned out better than fine. They were better read and more knowledgeable than I was in many areas. There’s a lot to be said for home schooling by an educated and artistic mama and papa.
   
   If I could work from home, I would certainly consider keeping my child out of school until first grade.
   
   However, I do think Ben Franklin was right about one thing. Early to bed, early rise..... but that's just me and him.

   posted by : Beeker on 9/18/2008 at 10:55 AM Flag For Abuse

7. Let's remember one thing here - this kid is 5 years old. I think we have a problem in that too much focus is put on structured education early in life and not in the later, pre-teen and teen years when it really needs to be structured and defined. Give it a rest you haters - let the kid color and play and roll around in the mud..there'll be plenty of time for classrooms and textbooks when he's a bit older. This is the age when exploration and nurturing are important..if she's providing that (which it sounds like she is) then she's doing a great job

   posted by : bklynheights on 9/18/2008 at 11:04 AM Flag For Abuse

8. I thought this was supposed to be an openminded community. I don't quite understand why there is such negativity here. Let's save the nasty comments for parents who don't bother to stop and think about what is best for their children. I have no issue with parents who try to find new, alternative ways to meet the needs of their children as well as their own. To me, a balanced homelife is a healthier homelife. I'd rather read about mothers like this than those who overparent and drag thier kids from one enrichment class to another from the time they're 3 months old simply because some expert tells them to.

   posted by : jillian k on 9/18/2008 at 11:16 AM Flag For Abuse

9. The comments are based on the way the story was written, which comes off very self-centered. It really does sound like they're doing it for their own benefit. Couldn't she write while he was at school?
   
   I don't think staying out of kindergarten will damage a child's education, but I also didn't see much effort being made by the writer to educate. Just hopping on the train for a play date while the parents drink beer and discuss homeschooling isn't really much of an experience, even if he does read the signs. He sounds like a really bright kid, so I guess he'll do well either way.
   
   If she does end up putting him in a regular school environment, he's going to have to get used to going to bed on time though. Kids are supposed to be awake and alert in the morning for class.

   posted by : lilmissyny on 9/18/2008 at 11:28 AM Flag For Abuse

10. eh, i think it's fine. We homeschool in NYC, and while we're not unschoolers, we are definitely more chill with our younger one who is only 3. Our older one is 6 and we have a structured morning curriculum, but after that? We go to homeschool soccer groups, free stuff at the Met, homeschool reading groups and the like. Would I have done all this when my eldest was in Kindergarten? probably not. But my guess is there's a LOT more learning going on in this woman's household than the article lets on. I think it's exceedingly difficult to spend the entire day with your child and him not actually learn an incredible amount, assuming he's not spending all day watching t.v. Homeschool kids have a vibrant, active life, and come on-her kid is 5! I think he can play and goof around to his heart's content at this age. Now, if she were writing this article about her 9 year old, maybe it would give me pause. But 5? Nah.

    posted by : nycgrrl on 9/18/2008 at 11:41 AM Flag For Abuse

11. is the problem that her kid out-cooled your kids? just because she lives in a different way to the rest of you (heaven forbid, they go to bed late), doesn't mean she's a bad mother or she's not educating her kid. if he's reading and happy and enjoying his life, what's your problem? i thought this site was for edgy, interesting parents. not people who can't tolerate difference. surely, we need to hear about people living different lives, to stop us slipping into a boring monoculture

    posted by : ryantr on 9/18/2008 at 11:52 AM Flag For Abuse

12. "we'll sleep well knowing that Benny is learning, growing, and enjoying his five year old, mud-splattered life, even in the absence of workbooks, fingerpaints, and school bells."
    
    this is the last line. she's clearly concerned with her kid and his education. plus, he's 5. give them a break.

    posted by : tribkelly on 9/18/2008 at 12:03 PM Flag For Abuse

13. Hey - I don't think her kid has "out-cooled" my kids. I think she thinks her kid is cooler than most kids with her tired examples of preferring Juno over Monsters. Yawn. Different strokes for different folks. I maintain that conventional schooling needn't be a mind-sucking/soul-crushing experience. But for those who fear that? Probably should find an alternative. The comments are way more interesting than the original piece. The original piece is nothing new and smacks of the privilege of having choices at one's disposal -- unlike 90+ percent of our fellow Americans who rely on alarm clocks, school buses, daycare and not getting laid off in order to raise their kids.

    posted by : BBBGMOM on 9/18/2008 at 12:15 PM Flag For Abuse

14. CURRICULA.
    
    I don't have any issues with home- or unschooling, but for heaven's sake, it's CURRICULA. Perhaps she should send him to school if she can't even use the proper plurals.

    posted by : baconsmom on 9/18/2008 at 12:17 PM Flag For Abuse

15. I dont think she should be taking her child to bars or letting him watch Juno, omg he's only 5 years old, it doesn't matter how smart or mature he may be, that type of movie is not for kids, beside the fact that a BAR is the last place a child should be. This comment doesn't mean that I am against homeschooling,but I am against blaintaintly irresponsible parents. Homeschooling is the best choice a responsible parent could make, at least for me it is, since our public schools have issues as overcrowded classrooms, lack of education, lack of personal connection between teacher and child, leaving children behind, out dated books which can lead to mis-education, lack of supplies, not moving at childs pace which can set a child adrift, bad influences and bullies, etc. I believe that socializing can be a possitive element to the learning process but too much socializing in schools can also be a negative. Many of these schools are like social clubs or a fraternities, the children are distracted and more concerned with name brand clothing, gossip, cell phone text messages in classes, gangs, fitting in, boyfriend and or gilfriends, and DRUG and ALCOHOL peer-pressure, just to name a few. Finally, the job of a parent is to be nurturing, loving and protecting, a BAR is not the place to protect and nurture your child. I believe that you may understand the importance of homeschooling your child because of the individual attention and pace level you can offer, but you are exposing him to an unhealthy environment, too many times we parents want to be more like friends to our children and less like parents and we also like to mature them to fast (the faster they mature, the faster I get to do the things I want), these are selfish practices that should stopped NOW. Raising a child is a sacrifice! Sacrifice your wants for his NEEDS, he needs a loving, protecting and nuturing parent that puts his best interest first, put your best interests aside and focus on his, you don't have to completely sacrifice you social life because that is what babysitters are for, and if you can't find a babysitter then DON'T GO TO THE BAR, SACRIFICE! Let you child be a child, stop trying to grow him to your level, SACRIFICE you adult carefree lifestyle because you are a mother now, take him to see children movies trust when I say that they are more for the WHOLE FAMILY then juno is, you will enjoy them also. Your definition of fun needs to change, at least when it concerns your child. If you didn't already know all of the above, now you do, you have no excuse, start your change today.

    posted by : gina2471 on 9/18/2008 at 12:38 PM Flag For Abuse

16. THE MOST SELFISH PARENTS I HAVE EVER COME ACROSS!
    
    This is the story of an incredibly selfish parent who, under the auspices of unconventional learning, is simply too lazy 9and perhaps too cheap) too be an effective and dedicated parent. They certainly have enough money to go away for the summer, drink in bars regularly and fly to Europe, why not focus on tasks that are less self centered? He needs to learn to interact with his peers, not bartenders and adult friends of his parents. While he may be precocious in some ways (knowing how to order a cranberry juice straight up), I'm afraid that his socialization skills with peers and his ability to resolve interpersonal issues will never develop. What about the role models he is dealing with? It is ok to drink beer every afternoon while your kids are playing in the dirt so your parents can have happy hour? It seems to me that the parents let the kids run around while they drank.

    posted by : Father of Three on 9/18/2008 at 1:16 PM Flag For Abuse

17. What an awful human being you are. You're creating a freak.

    posted by : Not Me on 9/18/2008 at 1:26 PM Flag For Abuse

18. @MMMom: Are children exposed to drunk, out of control patrons, and a highly sexualized environment at Starbucks? I thought not.
    
    While I admire the concept behind homeschooling, my experience with the products of homeschooling has made me dubious of the practice. Without exception, homeschoolers I've known have been a poorly socialized, odd bunch. If you have issues with public school, consider Montessori or other alternative schooling models as the above poster mentioned. Children need structure and they need to be with other kids.

    posted by : DoctorMom on 9/18/2008 at 1:32 PM Flag For Abuse

19. I love that Joanne admits that she hasn't even bothered reading the book by the man she bases her "educational" beliefs upon. Nor has she set a curriculum to replace what her child is missing out on, read any of the extensive literature about homeschooling, or investigated her local school to see if they really are squashing creativity like bugs. Public education didn't hurt her or her partner... but, uh, it might hurt her son? Based on... uh, her lack of desire to get the kid ready in the morning? Of course, this sort of research would take time and effort that she'd clearly prefer spending in bars and traveling.
    
    Try this: imagine this charming little article as written by a working-class woman. She opens by bragging about her five-year-olds greasy, unwashed hair (baths are such a BOTHER, really) and tells us that it's noon and he's still sleeping because she kept him up half the night... not at a trendy SoHo bar, but at the neighborhood drive. She had buddies she wanted to drink with! Party hardy! But no worries about his sleeping schedule, 'cause she's decided to keep him out of school. He'll learn just as much by playing with mud and experimenting with a bungee cord, she's decided. To hell with education.
    
    How many calls to CPS do you expect she'd get? How long do you think she'd retain custody? Personally, I'd foresee a story on the nightly news with an anchor incredulously reading excepts while sadly shaking her head over the irresponsibility of those stupid poor people.
    
    Oh, and Joanne? Kindergarten in 2008 has very little to do with fingerprinting. It's more like what we remember of the first grade -- which is something you'd know if you'd done any research into your decision.

    posted by : Knitty on 9/18/2008 at 1:38 PM Flag For Abuse

20. I personally wouldn't take a child to a bar, mostly because on the few evenings I go out with friends for a drink I want a break from children, and while they wouldn't surprise me at a restaurant, a bar seems like a pretty safe bet for avoiding kids.
    
    I think people are over reacting about the educational aspects though. She has a PhD. Her husband has a PhD. These are two people with a lot of education and a world view that encourages teaching moments, intellectual curiosity, and reading books. The kid is socializing with other kids his age. He's burying things in mud with them. In the end, I imagine he will be just fine.

    posted by : anne05 on 9/18/2008 at 1:44 PM Flag For Abuse

21. BBBGMOM has it right: this isn't an article about a parent's measured decision to opt out of the education system. It's either a braying account of white, upper-class privilege or perhaps pure fiction written with the intent of annoying the Babble readers.

    posted by : Knitty on 9/18/2008 at 2:06 PM Flag For Abuse

22. Personally, I don't feel like kids have any place in a bar. Not necessarily because of the alcohol, but it is an ADULT place. Where other ADULTS go. To hang out with ADULTS. Not some kid, sitting at the bar, sipping his cranberry juice like a grownup. I'm with you on all pints, anne05.
    Also, while Juno was funny and witty, it had adult themes that I don't think are appropriate for children. Disney movies ARE mostly drivel, but there are plenty of intelligent, fun thoughtful movies that don't have adolescent and adult themes. I think bragging about "My kid watches Juno!" is contradictory to the whole "My kid plays in the mud instead of going to school."
    All our lives changed when we had kids. Except for the authors.

    posted by : Gretchen on 9/18/2008 at 2:17 PM Flag For Abuse

23. This is the height of self absorbtion. Someone should notify DHS or Child Services. As for the child in the bar, most bartenders I know tell anyone who comes in with a child to leave or they will call the Police. Kids do not belong in bars. This kid is probably closing the place with his parents. And why is he dirty? Is that part of the "unschooling"? I hope he's trained. What a pair of a##holes?

    posted by : ED on 9/18/2008 at 2:26 PM Flag For Abuse

24. Hmm, let's see, you are opposed to schooling your child, yet your husband is a PROFESSOR?????

    posted by : cbukszpan on 9/18/2008 at 2:29 PM Flag For Abuse

25. I generally like Babble, but "hipper-than-thou" articles like this one drive me crazy. OK--we get it. You are cool. Way cool. Hooray for you. I feel sorry for your child.

    posted by : jmarie on 9/18/2008 at 2:32 PM Flag For Abuse

26. Bad Parent mission --- accomplished.
    
    And lest you think I imply that this parent is "bad", I don't. The mission of this column -- as I see it -- is to give voice to parents who are behaving in ways that are considered "bad" by the mainstrem and then have a lively discussion about it.
    
    So -- mission accomplished.
    
    Everyone has to live their own life and make their own decisions. While this parent certainly sounds like a person who I would describe as "dippy", I'm sure her son will grow up to be a great person. And even if he doesn't, I doubt it will be because of "un-kindergarten".

    posted by : k1 on 9/18/2008 at 2:32 PM Flag For Abuse

27. oh i get it!! you keep your child out of school so he can hang with you and your husband "for drinks" and then you let him play in the mud with a few naked children the next day while you have...oh, that's right, more drinks!!
    
    thank goodness the Lord watches over fools and babies. in this case, we've got a little of both!

    posted by : niki t on 9/18/2008 at 2:36 PM Flag For Abuse

28. While I can understand why many people are opposed to her lifestyle, calling Child Services? Are you freaking kidding? Do you have any idea what kind of slippery slope we're on when people think Child Services should be called because someone else JUST PARENTS DIFFERENTLY? Should we call Child Services when someone is raising their kids into being Christian, or Muslim, or Wiccan? How about if we see someone buying McDonald's more than once a week? What if they're not saving for their kid's college education?
    
    In other words, let's save the calls for getting Child Services involved for when there is, you know, ABUSE going on.

    posted by : Seriously on 9/18/2008 at 2:43 PM Flag For Abuse

29. You know what makes me sad... not the fact that there are thousands of different ways to raise a happy, healthy child and I will never realistically be able to accomplish them all- or the fact that each and every opinion on this page is fantastic, because we live in a time and place that allows for difference of opinion and some parts of the world still don't... WHAT MAKES ME SAD is the fact that we as a society feel so entitled to judge, criticize and otherwise admonish one another without considering that perhaps we don't have all the answers for everyone and perhaps some people live their lives differently then we do. Call CPS on parents who beat their children or burn them as punishment. Worried about her child's future in the competitive job markets of the future- smile knowing that your child no has one less "competitor", STOP BEING SO JUDGMENTAL!!!!!! Last time I checked, GOD didn't blog and that means you aren't the one to stand in judgment of this woman and/or her choices. Take all that fear and anger and direct it at the issues out there that are really terrifying and please remember that all you are doing is contributing to more anger and hatred in the world you are leaving your children.

    posted by : LittleMoreLovePlease on 9/18/2008 at 2:44 PM Flag For Abuse

30. This article doesn't seem in line with others I have read on Babble. I have to admit, Babble has now lost some credibility with me. This isn’t even close the philosophy I have when it comes to raising children. And it isn’t one I want to support.
    
    Spending the day with your child and letting them count out the change is FAR from a real education. Kindergarten isn’t high in the academic department, but “unschooling” your child is neglectful. A great education is a door way to the future. With two parents with PhDs I’d think the author would understand this.
    
    This parent is selfish. They are denying their child’s basic right to an education and it is borderline illegal. You would think in a country were education is free, parents wouldn’t squander their child’s rights.
    
    I have encountered many home schooled children in my life and the picture of a high-functioning genius is the exception to the rule. Many many home school kids are far behind their peers academically and socially. Just because a parent can read and do a little math in NO way qualifies them to become their child’s sole teacher.
    
    I am honestly concerned for the author’s child.

    posted by : sarag on 9/18/2008 at 2:47 PM Flag For Abuse

31. I think some of the reactions here are a little extreme. I can see many of the points she's making - Although their choices are very different than my own, I dont' doubt this child is loved and cared for and is very smart (reading at 5) and will be up to par w/ other children his age in knowledge...my only concern is the lack of schedule - it's probably not hurting anything at the moment, but if this schedule, or lack of schedule were to continue his whole life he might get the impression that the rest of the world is just as laid back as his family. It might be hard for him to conform to aspects of society like college and workplace.
    
    But that's just my opinion - and in fairness, she didn't say they were going to have this schedule/attitude throughout his educational years. I think there's something refreshing about a family that's dancing to the beat of their own drum.
    
    http://heyyourememberme.blogspot.com

    posted by : that girl on 9/18/2008 at 2:48 PM Flag For Abuse

32. I agree with you, That Girl - kids need some structure, and I'd be worried about how he fares later in life. Not everyone in the world gets up around mid-day and spends their waking hours comfortably numb. At 5, maybe not such a big deal, but in a couple years, that kid's going to act out when he has to adjust to the real world. One can find a balance between a rigid preschool or kindergarten schedule and curriculum and a "learn as you go" education.

    posted by : MamaMello on 9/18/2008 at 2:58 PM Flag For Abuse

33. i like how she goes out of her way to say that her son loves to count coins at the store (see, he's learning!).
    
    two PhDs can raise a kid in bars and mud pits, but two parents raised in bars and mud pits are not going to raise PhDs. that seems lost on the author.
    
    but i think this is just a "look at me" article and the boy(???) will be in a normal school setting before long.

    posted by : adam on 9/18/2008 at 2:58 PM Flag For Abuse

34. Knitty - HA! What an amazing observation! You are SO right.
    
    Can you imagine the reaction if it were a poor black woman who was saying: Well, I don't want to send my kid to school and I don't really have a job, so I take him out to the bar at night and then let him sleep till noon and then take him to play nude in the mud with other kids while I drink more beer.
    
    Most people actually have to work for a living and that doesn't mean puttering around with a novel. School, especially public school, is the only way most people can work and put food on table.
    
    Yes, he's only five NOW, but how is he going to cope when all of a sudden he goes from staying out in bars till 10 pm sleeping till noon to the rigors of first or second grade? (If they do put him in school.) It's totally unfair to him.
    
    And every time I hear a parent brag about how their kid turns down Kraft mac and cheese but "really loves" sushi or hates Elmo but loves Animae, I know that what we're really talking about is parental ego.

    posted by : me on 9/18/2008 at 3:05 PM Flag For Abuse

35. She could at least do some reading up on "unschooling" so that she can be getting the most out of it. I know these articles are supposed to be controversial, but come on...
    
    I think that the PP who suggested that a story relayed like this from an average working class, less educated mom would be taken differently by CPS or the nightly news anchors, is right on.... imagine Nancy Grace on that kind of story.

    posted by : tiffer on 9/18/2008 at 3:07 PM Flag For Abuse

36. There's no better way to create adults that expect everything in the world to be tailored specifically to what they want and what they're interested in than to homeschool them as children.
    
    One the most important lessons traditional schooling can give is that, at some point, you're going to have to interact with others and when you do, it isn't always about you.

    posted by : Our Miss Brooks on 9/18/2008 at 3:09 PM Flag For Abuse

37. I don't think the author is so bad. She sounds like a cool person. She is questioning whether she'll continue this as her kid gets older.
    
    I think too many people DON'T engage their kids in their everyday lives and what they do, art, music, entertainment...including bars, at appropriate times...and choosing the right bars. I don't know what kind of places some of the commenters go to, but not all bars have drunk people and are overly sexualized. Many are just gathering places where folks enjoy a pint or three. My real name is Gretchen, so I hope none of my friends think the "Gretchen" that said kids don't belong in bars is me (since it's a fairly uncommon name) because that opinion is just so crusty!
    
    I am lucky to live in a county with great public schools so I am going to send my little girl to school when she's 5...but for now, we're enjoying discovering life together, free-form (she's 15 months).
    
    How many of you haters dumped your little babies off in daycare? Maybe you wish you could spend more time with your kids!

    posted by : mama4avie on 9/18/2008 at 3:10 PM Flag For Abuse

38. I love this article and the description of this wonderful life for a five year old boy! Sometimes we forget the true priorities, having happy and healthy kids. Benny sounds like he fits that description. We forget that the following the crowd isn't always the best answer. (That's why we worn our children against peer pressure!) Why would you look down on someone who allows their FIVE YEAR OLD to sleep until his body has rested enough (since most the nation has overweight and exhausted children), or play with friends in the mud (when imaginative play is a milestone that doctors look for in a healthy growing child). And a five year old that can read road signs...that is simply amazing. (Children aren't even learning to read until first grade in the NYC public school system. And when they do, they are reading, "Jane has a ball.") This article shows that learning happens in many ways. It is so ignorant of people to think that school houses are the only way to receive an education and social interactions. Benny can play and read and enjoys time with his parents. What more can a mother ask for?

    posted by : Spinderella on 9/18/2008 at 3:17 PM Flag For Abuse

39. Advanced degrees do not qualify one to teach young children unless they are in education. I have advanced degrees in English, but that does not mean that I believe that if I kept my child out of school she would somehow learn everything she needs to know on her own, with little to no effort on my part, simply through her exposure to me, her hip and highly educated mother. Give me a break! I agree with many of the posters above...this article takes alternative parenting too far. This is just LAZY parenting.

    posted by : sangsterrific on 9/18/2008 at 3:18 PM Flag For Abuse

40. A number of these posters seem to be confusing homeschooling with unschooling: homeschoolers follow a curriculum that ensures that their children will not be behind (and many, if not most, end up ahead of their agemates) if/when they enter public school. Unschoolers do not follow a curriculum, allowing, in the words of the author of this piece, “a kid's curiosity, interests and natural hunger for knowledge guide their learning”.
    
    How wonderful it would be if the rest of the world worked this way!
    I have a couple of questions, however: How many of these unschooled kids are going to make it to college? And once they get there, and are met by “rigid” curricula in their various classes, how are they going to function?!
    
    My best friend and her husband have a rock-and-roll lifestyle (they own a record label/distribution company based in Manhattan). Up until the age of 3, their child followed their schedule: late mornings, late nights. Then my friend started her daughter in pre-school to get her ready to follow the 4K and kindergarten time tables, because she knew that this was the best way to acclimate her daughter to the WAY THE WORLD WORKS. Her child has adjusted beautifully, and is very happy to be in school learning how to be with other children—learning how to share, cooperate, and follow directions—all skills that both children and adults need to function in the world.
    
    This piece basically illustrates a set of parents who make decisions based on the way they’d like to keep their lifestyle, not on what’s really best for the child. “Bad Parent”—you’ve got that right.

    posted by : katydidmama on 9/18/2008 at 3:22 PM Flag For Abuse

41. Wow, Our Miss Brooks, you got evidence to back that assertion up?
    
    I mean, all of the homeschooled kids I've ever met turned out great. One's in college at a major university in Texas, another's about to go there as well (entering as a JUNIOR! Thanks to taking a bunch of classes at the local community college during "high school"), another decided to do missionary work for a year before going to college, another is applying to a performing arts school for 'high school' since she is a tremendous dancer... etc. etc.
    
    Oh, and like no snotty brats ever come out of government schools, nuh-huh, never happens.

    posted by : Seriously on 9/18/2008 at 3:22 PM Flag For Abuse

42. That's a good point Miss Brooks..I can also see the point about this lady's financial situation vs. lower middle-class mom writing this.
    
    I think the author was writing under the assumption that we all know this child is smart, probably above his peer level, and also that we would deduct educational experience from things like trips to museums and Europe...I wish we could just discuss this without being so nasty and taking things to such extremes.

    posted by : that girl on 9/18/2008 at 3:25 PM Flag For Abuse

43. Wow, katydidmama, I guess your anecdotal evidence totally trumps mine! I didn't realize this comment area required footnotes and empirical documentation.
    
    If all the people YOU know are homeschooled are great, I guess it must be so.
    Or maybe they're just like you..and prove my point.
    
    Let's see how these terrific people do once they leave the world where they can pick what they do. Hey, non liberal arts colleges are perfect for homeschoolers--they can thrive by focusing on exactly what they choose to do. Can they cope in circumstances they don't control? We'll see, I guess.

    posted by : Our Miss Brooks on 9/18/2008 at 3:29 PM Flag For Abuse

44. There needs to be more educated people in this world, and no, I'm not talking about the author, I'm talking about the negative commentators. Educate yourselves on the subject of homeschooling before creating your opinions and bashing others. Perhaps the recent news piece on CBS News (Sept 14, 2008) could help. It noted that in 2002, Princeton University's valedictorian was a home-schooler. The school's website has a special section for home school applicants. I don't think they do that for all the kids they aren't going to accept. Really now?

    posted by : CHolt on 9/18/2008 at 3:29 PM Flag For Abuse

45. Hoorah for your family! If anyone ever read "Dumbing Us Down, The Hidden Agenda of Compulsory Education" by Gatto you would never allow the government to brainwash your child again. Here is an excerpt.
    
    http://www.noogenesis.com/game_theory/Gatto/Gatto.html
    
    They teach our children to stifle their intelligence, follow the crowd, cruelty to others, classism, dependance on authority figures for self esteem but most of all to not think independantly. I homeschool my children now after horrible encounters with the Public School system. My 138 IQ child was told she was too "talkative" for the gifted program. She was punished for fighting back when a bully,a boy, twice physically attacked her. In Kindergarten!

    posted by : Alice on 9/18/2008 at 4:30 PM Flag For Abuse

46. "How many of you haters dumped your little babies off in daycare? Maybe you wish you could spend more time with your kids!"
    
    Mama4avie, you really couldn't make my point about privilege any better.
    
    The white, upper-middle-class mom who opts not to educate her child so she doesn't have to get up in the morning and spends her time dragging him into bars at all hours of the night? A cool person! What fabulous ideas she has about child-rearing!
    
    The working-class mothers who take their kids to daycare so they can work and support them (like, oh, I dunno... responsible adults?) "Haters" who "dump off" their "babies" into that sinister daycare system! Clearly, they are filled with guilt and self-loathing over how much they suck and object to this cool lady only because she is so much more awesome than regular people!
    
    Again, I have no objection to home schooling. What I object to is irresponsible parenting, removing children from the educational system without the faintest idea of what you're doing, and once again -- the unacknowledged privilege that drips from every line of this article. Never would a poor person feel comfortable and righteous bragging about their unwashed child sleeping until noon, their late-night bar-hopping, or swilling beer with their buddies while their children play in mud rather than attend school.

    posted by : Knitty on 9/18/2008 at 4:51 PM Flag For Abuse

47. Is 9 pm late-night these day?

    posted by : huh on 9/18/2008 at 4:55 PM Flag For Abuse

48. This is absolutely insane. Someone please call Child Protective Services and have this child placed in a loving home where he belongs. Bar hopping with your 5 year old. Yeah, you sound just like the McCann's and Casey Anthony. Look at what happened to their kids. You'll reap what you sow.

    posted by : MarriedMomof2 on 9/18/2008 at 5:01 PM Flag For Abuse

49. 9pm is when she ARRIVED at the bar with her five-year-old in tow.

    posted by : Huhhuh on 9/18/2008 at 5:04 PM Flag For Abuse

50. Alice, after your rant I believe you might find a home on the anti-vaccination Babble blog page from a few days ago. It's just chock FULL of government conspiracy knuckleheads like yourself. Good lord, truly, truly incredible.

    posted by : comeon on 9/18/2008 at 5:07 PM Flag For Abuse

51. "Is 9 pm late-night these day?"
    
    ---------------------
    It is for a kindergarten-aged child who should be at home getting a good night's sleep so that he can awake at a decent hour in the morning and head to school to get a decent education. Instead, her 5 year old is out sitting on the floor of some bar drinking cranberry juice and playing by himself while Mommy & Daddy get drunk with their friends. That is absolutely sickening!!!

    posted by : MarriedMomof2 on 9/18/2008 at 5:08 PM Flag For Abuse

52. My first impression of reading this article was that it sounds like a pretty good childhood, and that I wish I had the financial means to unschool my child. My own experiences of school certainly didn't instill a love of learning in me, and I mostly self-educated in spite of formal education, begging for any opportunity to be left alone in the library. I talked too much, I couldn't sit still in a row, I challenged authority and was "insubordinate." Beginning in middle school, I literally kept a count of the days until high school graduation. I begged to be homeschooled. So I am quite sympathetic to the unschooling mission, to letting kids explore their world, and just standing by and provide support for their curiosities. This sounds like a mom who deeply cares about her child, and is looking for a way to balance her work and spending as much time as possible with him.
    
    I also agree with Miss Brooks that its great to integrate kids into the activities of your life. I do somewhat question taking a child to a bar, but I think it depends on the context. I have been to plenty of bars that were basically like restaurants, were people just sat around talking, and plenty of bars that were more like nightclubs. So we really don't have enough context to judge whether its a safe and appropriate environment. Assuming its a restaurant-like environment, I don't think there is anything wrong with engaging a child in conversation in a diverse age group setting. I also don't think there is anything wrong with letting your child keep a non-traditional sleep schedule, as long as they get enough sleep.
    
    I also agree that the choices of working class or poor moms get subjected to more scrutiny than the choices of wealthier moms. That doesn't mean we should start scrutinizing wealthier moms more, however, it means we should be far less judgmental of all moms.

    posted by : jealous of unschoolers on 9/18/2008 at 5:09 PM Flag For Abuse

53. He's FIVE, people. Relax. There's quite a bit of time left for him to get used to an industrialized schedule. Kids are resilient. He'll adapt.
    
    Also, all this "common sense" knowledge about the value of a formal education beginning in Kindergarten is received wisdom with no sources (that I've seen) to back it up.
    
    My parents didn't send me to school -- or make me do homework or follow a curriculum. They were unschoolers a decade before the term was coined, and I learned just fine by reading my way through our local library and doing math games and conducting science experiments. And as long as I got up early enough to feed the chickens (I grew up on a farm), my time was my own.
    
    My parents didn't stop me when I decided I wanted to go in junior high. I was worlds ahead of my peers academically, and thanks to lots of non-school activities with other kids (4-H, Pony Club, community theater, etc.), I was socialized as well as any essentially nerdy kid can be.
    
    I went to Vassar after high school and graduated with honors. I started and successfully ran my own business before I hit 25, have done well in the corporate world (with -- horrors -- business hours!) and as a freelancer, and have recently gone back to school to get my PhD. I have great friends and colleagues, work I love, an awesome partner, and a great relationship with my folks. Honestly, I could ask for nothing more for my own future kids, except maybe better health.
    
    
    So tell me again how unschooling has doomed me to a terrible life in which I can't adapt to the pressures of the real world?

    posted by : HomeschooledYetNormal on 9/18/2008 at 5:10 PM Flag For Abuse

54. Everyone's variables are so different that it's hard to make any blanket statements. However, I would think twice before un-schooling my kids long-term. I was un-schooled until I went to (an Ivy League) college, where I did fine, but didn't feel like I got the help I needed making the transition. I was raised by bohemian parents and think that the overall lack of structure and respect for authority was harmful. Sometimes it's good to have some organization! Plain and simple, I think children need help in their education and it is the responsibility of adults to help them. You can't expect children to find everything they need by "following their nose." I feel like I have huge, embarrassing gaps in my education that I've been trying to fill, and that the gaps are my fault! And it has been a struggle for me to find my own rhythm and sense of how to organize my days, as opposed to the improvised, free-for-all that my parents imposed on me. But maybe I'm just neurotic! I guess just listen to your kids and evolve with them. E.g. I asked my mom if I could go to high school when I was 13, and she refused because she didn't think it was good enough for me. Overall, what starts out feeling liberal can end up feeling republican - if you succeed, great. If you fail, it was your fault, because you're on your own. Maybe not the best metaphor, but you get the drift. On that note, I don't feel like my parents can share in my achievements, because they really didn't have much to do with them. Good luck!

    posted by : mnop on 9/18/2008 at 5:51 PM Flag For Abuse

55. This woman is selfish and irresponsible. She is not choosing to "homeschool" her child, which might take time away from her precious novel and some real effort on her part. She would rather just tote him along to all the adult activities, evenings out and movies that she and her oh so educated partner go to because it's EASIER. Yes, kids are resilient but it doesn't sound like this mom is actively involved in parenting her child. It's more like "Oh look, he learned something by playing in the mud while I drank my beer. Whew! Another productive day!"
    
    I am a well educated (U.C. Berkeley in 3.5 years) working mother. It is not EASIER to drop my child at pre-school each day on my way to work. The author is speaking from a place of priviledge that most of us cannot relate to. Would I prefer to stay home with my child and educate him through daily activities and the like? Possibly. Woe to all of us poor unenlightened masses who send our children to school and then go to work.
    
    Why isn't there room for both? You can send your child to (gasp) a public or private school AND be involved in their lives by using everyday things as teaching moments. My child will go to school AND I plan on taking him to Europe in the off-season. But that would take more work than this author is willing to do.

    posted by : Annoyed on 9/18/2008 at 5:59 PM Flag For Abuse

56. Here's my problem with this and many homeschooling articles I've read: the notion that the parent teaches whatever the kid is interested in. Obviously, there are times that parents should follow their children's lead in play. However, kids should not always be able to do what they want. The real (adult) world is not like this. You need to learn that life is about give and take, and realize that you don't always get your way. I didn't enjoy sitting through math class, but I did learn math and I learned how to work on something I'm not interested in. Which is a helpful life skill.

    posted by : Some structure on 9/18/2008 at 6:04 PM Flag For Abuse

57. I think it is misguided to say that she's a bad mother because she happens to think of herself and her own happiness, as well as her child's. She is obviously not abusing or neglecting her child and he may just end up being a very well-adjusted person. Who knows? I'm not implying that everyone should do things her way, but what's wrong with trying something different? All the parenting magazines are constantly reminding us to take care of ourselves as much as we take care of our children. A happy mom definitely contributes to a happy childhood. I'm sure there are a lot of people raised by miserable moms who would agree me.

    posted by : mesojealous on 9/18/2008 at 6:13 PM Flag For Abuse

58. how is someone who looks after her children all day every day selfish? in europe kids don't go to school until they are older. they often go out to restaurants and bars in the evening with their families. they don't timetable their kids up the wazoo. and the kids turn out to be far more educated and probably happier than kids in the US.

    posted by : distom on 9/18/2008 at 6:23 PM Flag For Abuse

59. She is NOT looking after him all day. She makes a point to say that she is glad that her son is sleeping until noon so that she can work on her book.
    
    I highly doubt that even in much more socially advanced Europe they think it is a good idea for a child of 5 to be out at 10:00pm and sleeping until noon on a regular basis.
    
    Yes, it is important that a mother is fulfilled, lest her child suffer because she is unhappy. However, if her idea of happiness is maintaining a childless lifestyle, than she probably should have remained childless.

    posted by : Annoyed on 9/18/2008 at 7:08 PM Flag For Abuse

60. Actually, to dispute you distom, kids in Europe may have a later compulsory age to start public school, but many of those countries also have pre-school or pre-primary schools that cover the basics of what kindergarten is in this country. And, not all countries in Europe start later than the US. Northern Ireland starts compulsary schooling at 4, England, Malta, the Netherlands, Scotland, and Wales start at 5. This is the latest age that kids can start school, but you'll find that many start at an even earlier age by parental choice.

    posted by : Momtoo on 9/18/2008 at 7:13 PM Flag For Abuse

61. Ummm..... distom, I don't know where you've been, but when I was in Europe I didn't see kids in bars at 9:00 unless there was an community event or a family party. Europeans do things differently, but not that differently. Kids were often out in cafes but not late at night. Those with children tended to go home in the evening after dinner.
    
    I'm not against kids in bars ( as most are perfectly clean and appropriate much of the time). Rowdiness usually starts later in the evening. I often see kids on bar patios on my way home from work. But 9:00 seems late. Maybe things are different in NY. At 9:00, in my town, people are already getting drunk and picking up.
    
    I also think that people attending a bar late at night have the right to be child UNfriendly. And I'll bet this writer's friends wish she would sometimes leave the kid at home.
    
    Some structure: Most home schoolers embrace an holistic approach to education. If you're studying history, you might map out battle patterns and learn geography with your history. The theory is that this embraces the whole child and encompasses a greater range of material. Home school advocates say school is convincing kids that they don't like certain subjects because they are taught in an removed and boring way that doesn't engage children as an individual. I can see that. Who wants to sit at a desk all day with fractions when you could be out exploring the woods for leaves or building a tree-fort.
    
    I have my doubts that every child would thrive under such a system. It wouldn't work with a dull child. But I'm not sure many parents who have such children would bother.
    
    Kids also need to be able to set goals and develop their own passions and finish projects they have chosen. We have too little of that these days.

    posted by : beeker on 9/18/2008 at 7:39 PM Flag For Abuse

62. why did you bother to have a child? glad you could make him accommodate to your lifestyle needs (beer, euro getaways, narcissistic writing). glad, too, he knows how to count out quarters in the subway. that will come in handy when he's pan-handling there in later life because he couldn't function.
    
    kids should not be out in bars at 10:30 at night. period.
    
    why is anyone--including me--wasting precious time commenting on this stupid article? this whole this is a joke. "honesty" my a**.

    posted by : mamarama on 9/18/2008 at 8:32 PM Flag For Abuse

63. As a public school teacher I find this "mother's" story repulsive. Get your facts straight and then accept that fact that you are a parent. Grow the hell up! Taking your 5 year old to bars and movies he should not be seeing is a disgrace. Get over yourself already.

    posted by : realmom on 9/18/2008 at 9:35 PM Flag For Abuse

64. To Our Miss Brooks:
    
    You totally missed my point in your haste to make a snippy remark. I was pointing out the difference between homeschooling and the new fad of "unschooling". Homeschooling still involves structure, whereas unschooling is basically a free-for-all where the kid decides what to study. Which might be fine if that was the way the world worked.
    
    These kids can grow up and choose what to do, sure; what happens when they get a job that entails tasks that they decides they're not interested in? Will they do them? They will if they want to keep getting paid because that's how jobs work. How did you miss the point I was making--oh right, you only read the first part.
    
    As an FYI: I don't homeschool my four-year old; she's been in daycare since she was 4 mos. old because I am a full-time college professor. I have had students who came out of the public schools and students who were homeschooled up through 8th grade and beyond. I'm happy to have both kinds of students as long as they're willing to do the work I assign, regardless of whether or not they decide they want to do it. I am not looking forward to dealing with a generation of "unschooled" 18 year olds 15 years from now--

    posted by : katydidmama on 9/18/2008 at 9:40 PM Flag For Abuse

65. To the author: you are sooooo hip!! If only I could be as hip as you are (sarcasm)

    posted by : yepyep on 9/18/2008 at 9:56 PM Flag For Abuse

66. I disagree with all the above comments. Maybe it is because I have a similar lifestyle to the author. I believe that most parents mold their children to fit into the way they live. That is what sending a child to school is about, molding a child into becoming a productive member of society. All this person is saying is that as parents they have a different life then others, one that is a little less structured. While it can be argued that is not the best environment to raise a child in the evidence for unschooling as a education is in this parent's favor. I also don't see much difference in taking a child to a bar then taking a child to any place where alcohol is served. I actually see a child being raised this way as positive because he will get to spend so much time with his parents. He will also get to travel and learn about the world. He is already reading...can we really argue this person is a lousy parent? I don't think so.
    
    Actually I am kind of shocked by these comments. Sending a child to daycare at 4 months old? That makes you a good parent?!

    posted by : dhsredhead on 9/18/2008 at 10:36 PM Flag For Abuse

67. Since the New York State compulsory age for schooling is 6, the CPS comments are just silly. No educational neglect is legally possible if the kid isn't even required to be in school yet. Kids in bars, well, it isn't abuse, even if you find it distasteful.
    
    Unschooling kindergarten, in my mind, shouldn't even be controversial. It's kindergarten! A place where most of us played with blocks, coloring books, finger paints and crayons, and enjoyed cookies and milk. Kids today, however, are subjected to unnecessarily early academic pressure. Hence the growing trend of "red shirting," not just among those who want their kid to have an advantage at sports, but among parents concerned that forcing children at such young ages into sitting at a desk all day, silently and obediently, is simply developmentally inappropriate and more likely to quash a love of learning than to instill it. This same concern is what drives many to choose homeschooling. The outcry of neglect here seems especially unwarranted in light of the fact that the author of this piece has expressed her uncertainty about continuing to unschool as her child grows. Personally, I hope she will find the time to read Gatto's books and make an informed decision about whether this philosophy is really a good fit for her family before plunging ahead without a road map. I don't understand not doing the research going forward.
    
    School may be the norm in our culture, but it is far from an ideal, especially for kids who aren't "average". Fall at either end of the spectrum, and it's pretty much a pipe dream that your needs will get met in an overcrowded classroom. Gifted kids are just as much casualties of our current system as children in need of special education services. There are a million good reasons to homeschool (and yes, to unschool, if you understand the concept and are comfortable with it and can make it work).
    
    The comments about how it is ironic that two PhDs seemingly don't value a system they benefited from ignore the fact that schools today are not what they were when we (today's adults) were kids. We didn't have No Child Left Behind and a mania for standardized testing and test prep at the expense of real curricula to contend with, as today's children must. You can count me as another person with a doctorate who has chosen homeschooling over today's public schools. Call me privileged if you want to (and coming from poor folks, I get a kick out of that, actually), but we are squeaking by financially on one income so I can make a priority of my son's education, which I consider the most awesome responsibility I've ever undertaken, short of deciding to become a parent, and far more personally fulfilling than trying commercial cases for a big bucks NYC salary.
    
    Socialization is simply a red herring that homeschoolers are jaded about answering. There are so many wonderful homeschool groups that provide opportunities for play and learning experiences, especially in a place like NYC. Homeschooled kids are not isolated in their homes. They are out enjoying the real world that all too many people glibly doubt their ability to deal with. Homeschool isn't for everyone, but it can work wonderfully well for those who choose it. Please don't listen to tired stereotypes and bash something out of unfamiliarity.
    
    ~Chele

    posted by : Chele on 9/18/2008 at 11:39 PM Flag For Abuse

68. Here in Pennsylvania the compulsory age for children to be schooled is 8, and for some of my children I have taken advantage of it. Not to deprive them of an education, but rather to let them be children while working into the learning process slowly.
    I have spent the past 16 years homeschooling my 6 children. My two older girls have graduated, the oldest is pursuing a dance career and the second is in college. Neither of them have any difficulties socializing or coping in the real world. My oldest son is a special needs child who has a moderate level of structure, but in some ways could be seen as an unschooler since we don't adhere to a particular schedule, or use a strict curriculum. I allow him a great deal of freedom as to when he studies, and when to do which subjects. Having that kind of flexibility has helped him to aquire a love of learning, not a dread of it. We use a variety of text books, video tutorials and hands on learning.
    My younger three while a little more structured than their brother find they have a lot more time to be kids than their public schooled peers, and they don't want to go to public school. With the exception of my special ed son all of the other children are on grade level or above. The children of my friends who homeschool(regardless of their method) have all had good success with their programs as well. In fact I've only known one family who didn't do well, and even their children weren't any worse off than many of the children I see coming out of the public school system. So much for the stigma that the ignorant like to wallow in that homeschooled children are so backward, or socially inept. I feel that there is too much stress put upon children in the schools today to behave like miniature adults. The child in this article is still very young, and should be allowed to be a child. In this respect he is not going to be harmed by spending his time playing instead of studying, time enough for that when he is older. His parents bohemian lifestyle, exposing him to bars, etc. concerns me a little more, but it is their decision. Hopefully as he gets older his parents will also mature abit and rethink what they are teaching him, by their examples if in no other way.

    posted by : d3master on 9/19/2008 at 2:29 AM Flag For Abuse

69. She's a novelist. Her genre MUST be satire.

    posted by : Katherine on 9/19/2008 at 5:40 AM Flag For Abuse

70. Your argument against schooling would be much more convincing if it didn't so much involve your desire to drink beer, pursue your career and bring a child to a bar and a PG film. (Also, imagine how much writing you could get done while your child was at school for seven hours!)

    posted by : krista54ed on 9/19/2008 at 6:20 AM Flag For Abuse

71. I had to start taking my daughter to daycare when she was 6 weeks old. I work for a small, non-profit (in education) and did not have the option of taking an extended maternity leave. The little bit of time I did take was unpaid. I resent the implication made by one poster above that working parents are taking the easy way out by putting our kids in daycare. It's not easy, sweetie. It's unbearably hard...emotionally, physically, and financially. But we do what we have to. You see, I HAVE to work. It's not a choice. Would I rather be home with my child and writing a book? Of course! Do I like getting up at 5 am? Hell no! I understand the heated debate over this article and why half of you are outraged and half of you are supportive, but why would you crap all over working parents?? In respond to dhsredhead, I don't think putting my baby in daycare made me a good parent. But because I work, she has health insurance, food, and a clean and safe place to live. THAT makes me a good parent. The author (and some of you posting on here) are coming across as pretty elitest and that bugs me. I don't use my daughter as an accessory to communicate how cool I am to the rest of the world. And if you are, that's your business. We all make our own choices and have to live with them. But I think it's really effed up to drag those of with kids in daycare into this mess.

    posted by : Walker on 9/19/2008 at 7:07 AM Flag For Abuse

72. While I don't have venom for the author, nor do I think it is neglectful not to send a 5 year old to kindergarten, I do have strong ideas of my own about structure for kids. Some kids are very resilient (and I'm assuming this mom knows her kid better than a bunch of opinionated people on the internet), but I would say most kids thrive with structure. I do a lot of study of the brain and how it functions, and I believe there is a reason most kids wake up and go to sleep with the sun - it is how we were evolved and how we work best, and I do tend to find myself cluck clucking when I am out at night and see parents dragging around their young children.
    
    If I had the money not to have a job other than writing, I might consider a similar route. Except I loved kindergarten and school (for the most part), and why deny my child the opportunity to try to thrive in the same way?

    posted by : bisous on 9/19/2008 at 7:08 AM Flag For Abuse

73. Hold on. The author's 4 year old can already read, learns about art and art history at The Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC, and studies geography/ foreign cultures by going to Europe. He's socialized, and he's being educated by 2 parents with their Phd's. What kindergarden in this country can provide that? So bedtime's unorthodox. So what? Seriously - why does that matter as long as he's getting enough sleep? I thought this site was about creative parenting? Think outside the box folks.

    posted by : ManhattanMama on 9/19/2008 at 7:23 AM Flag For Abuse

74. One thing I've learned as a home schooling parent is how narrow minded the rest of the world can be on what home schooling is. When you try to explain yourself to everybody else, what seems to stick is all the negatives as opposed to the positive. While I wouldn't take my 4 year old to a bar (we don't like the noise), she has been up putting together 100 piece puzzles, drawing endless pictures, writing her alphabet and different words she sees and is able to read till well past midnight. Does that make us bad parents?
    
    I think the author does very well to educate her child at his own pace. You have to see past all the other stuff and notice the nurturing of a free spirit. The world as we know it is his classroom. He is not sitting boxed up in some building having to learn the lesson du jour with 30 other kids. Too many of our childhood dreams and learning desires are quashed in our school years because we cannot expand our minds at the rate of our interests. I am not completely against public school either. Someday, we just might have to do it too or maybe our daughter will say she'd like to see what its like to be in such an environment.

    posted by : HulaK on 9/19/2008 at 7:37 AM Flag For Abuse

75. As I often tell my wife when she sees something she doesn't like "It's not your child let them screw them up as they see fit".
    
    Your article certainly goes against the grain of what normally is read on parenting websites, I found it refreshing.
    
    However have you considered how a child with a unstructured childhood will be able to coup with living in a structured world?
    
    I hope that you have made your decision not based on whats best for you rather whats best for your child. Have you taken in consideration what you will do if he comes to you one day and says he wants to go to school?

    posted by : Donald on 9/19/2008 at 8:10 AM Flag For Abuse

76. I am a product of New York public schools and I am now currently an educator at a high school for at-risk youth in the New York City public school system. I am also someone who has actually spent a lot of quality time with Jo, Brad, and Benny. I would like you all to know that Benny is a very smart, loving, and well-adjusted child. He actually reads better and poses more "deeper thinking" and "critical thinking" questions about things that we read together than some of my high school students. His social skills are right on par with other children his age (I can say this because I actually spend time with him at places like parks and museums where there are many other children playing). He actually does quite well with structure, too. When people put activities together for kids to participate, Benny has no trouble waiting his turn or helping another kid. Unfortunately, our readers can't see these things happening, because they have not spent time with Benny.
    
    Additionally, Jo is one of the most attentive, genuine, and involved parents I have ever met. To call her selfish for being thankful for her son taking a nap is not a crime. How many parents say, "Oh, thank goodness the baby is asleep. Now I can rest"? How about when parents say, "I can finally get some work done, the kids are out of the house. It's so peaceful and quiet." C'mon everyone. Parents say these things because it's how they genuinely feel. Let's not get hasty here. Jo has a very strong and active peresence in her son's life. There are many of us out there who can't say the same about our own parents for one reason or another. Jo is far from "selfish" and there is no need to call CPS (unless inundating a child with hugs, praise, many educational opportunities that actually challenge and nurture a child, and providing creative outlets has suddenly become a crime).
    
    
    While I do understand that everyone has their own opinions on how, when, or why a child should, would, or could be educated, as well as their own ideas on what's "appropriate" for a five-year-old to watch, see, or do, I am very surprised to see how so many of the people who have commented on this article have jumped to attacking Jo's character as an individual and as a mother. It seems unfair to ridicule someone's parenting practices when one has not had any interactions with any of them. It's hard to believe how one can so readily pass a jugement on someone when one has merely read a brief article describing only some aspects of the individual's life and choices.
    
    I'm glad that there are parents like Brad and Jo in this world, because they truly appreciate children as the precious gifts that the world has to offer.

    posted by : TeachingGoesBeyondthe ClassroomN on 9/19/2008 at 8:50 AM Flag For Abuse

77. Now if HulaK, D3Master and Chele had written the essay I don't think there would be nearly as many negative comments.
    
    They have obviously researched homeschooling, they have a PLAN and a focus and more importantly, it's clear their decision was rooted in a sincere, deeply-held belief. None of them mentioned their primary reason for homeschooling was so they could stay out late at bars and a vague discomfort with the public school system.
    
    I don't have any problem with people making unorthodox parenting decisions _ but if you are going to go against the grain, for your sake and your child's you should be prepared and educated.
    
    For example, I don't eat meat and neither does my kid. But it's not like I made the decision willy-nilly, I researched it, I make a daily conscious effort to make sure my kid gets proper nutrition. So when I talk about us being vegetarian I'm not saying "Ewwww I don't like icky meat so ... uh.... I guess we eat cheese sticks all the time????"

    posted by : anonymouse on 9/19/2008 at 9:01 AM Flag For Abuse

78. Thank heaven for parents like Jo! Benny will get to explore his own interests and learn in ways that are comfortable and natural. He can also learn at his own pace! Anyone ever felt lost and frustrated in a classroom? Lighten up on the woman. She may be on to something here....

    posted by : Unschool is Cool on 9/19/2008 at 9:24 AM Flag For Abuse

79. Get over the whole bar thing. It's better than the kid stuffing his face with McDonald's and sitting in front of the tv/computer all day. They serve alcohol in other places (Applebee's, TGIF, etc.). Kids stay up late in front of the tv. The kid was drinking juice and sitting nex to his parents. The child is probably so well-behaved that no one seems to mind that he's even in the place. I thought the article was very eye-opening and encouraging. Leave Joanne alone and kudos to the kids playing in the mud. We should be hearing more about kids being outside in the sun and playing with mud!!

    posted by : BarsLate NightsandLateNightsOhMy on 9/19/2008 at 9:30 AM Flag For Abuse

80. I think a lot of readers failed to see the irony in this piece. I don't think for a second that really the purpose behind "unschooling" their son is so they can party all night. The reality of the standardized school system is that it does put the family into a structure and it doesn't work for all families. Allowing children a few more years of childhood and freedom is often a really good thing. Having sent one child off to college and two others in high school, and having experienced many different school experiences for my children, I am convinced now more than ever that schooling--and testing, but don't get me started--really need to be viewed on an individualized basis. Alas, this is not very doable in our system of education. But for those parents willing to allow their children to flourish in their own independence, bravo. I see nothing necessarily laudable about thrusting your kid into school simply because that's "what's done." In fact, I feel more convinced now than ever that schools were generally invented because at certain points in developing kids' lives, they need to be away from their parents. Or rather their parents need them to be away from them. Particularly the really high-maintenance kids. Or conversely, these kids need to be in a structure because they've never known structure at home, and a school can, with a little luck, provide what structure is needed to get a kid on the straight and narrow. But what this family is doing seems really quite loving and nurturing--let this kid enjoy his mom time, let him enjoy learning on his own level, let him pursue his interests and passions. It's really how children learn best. He'll have plenty of time for calculus and such down the road, but he'll also learn a level of self-confidence that will prove invaluable to him as he navigates childhood into adulthood. The types of children who are allowed this sort of independence (as long as that homeschooling time isn't spent brainwashing the child into narrow-minded extreme ideology) really can and do flourish. And isn't that what learning ought to be about?

    posted by : Jenny G on 9/19/2008 at 9:39 AM Flag For Abuse

81. Normally, I think "Bad Parent" is a misnomer- all the contributors have been good parents, even great parents, when it comes down to it. But this- this is a bad parent.

    posted by : VT mom on 9/19/2008 at 10:05 AM Flag For Abuse

82. It took me a while to figure out what I found so repugnant about this article and by extension its author.
    
    It wasn’t that she believed she could do better by her child than a kindergarten could. With the state of kindergarten these days, that is probably true if you have the patience and time.
    
    It wasn’t really that she kept her son out in bars until late into the night. Even if I’d bet a million dollars other patrons and her friends wish she would leave her son at home. It wasn’t his sleeping schedule, despite my thinking it silly.
    
    It was the obnoxiousness and arrogance hidden behind a veil of offhanded self-deprecating attempts at wit. She’s NOT really explaining how her son benefits from more time with his mother and the wonderful experiences New York has to offer. This author is simply bragging about her child in the form of a column that pretends to be about unschooling. Unschooling is barely mentioned or explained and she admits to not having read the books or done much research. (Why did Babble take this article again?)
    
    This article is nothing more than an extended brag session about her son is not boring, stupid or lame like most of American children. He’s so much hipper than your child because he eschews traditional kids media.
    
    This article comes off as obnoxious and smug. There is no helpful information about unschooling or homeschooling and its potential for success.
    
    Arrogance is not attractive and certainly not a perspective from which I can learn and open my mind.

    posted by : beeker on 9/19/2008 at 10:52 AM Flag For Abuse

83. My husband was home-schooled (definitely not un-schooled, very strict schedule and curriculum) and I went to public school. I'm familiar with the concept of un-schooling, and that home-schooling often takes different forms.
    
    A logistical question: at what point does the law say that you have to either put your child in school or prove that you're homeschooling? Is there some point when theoretically a social worker comes to your home to ensure that your child is being educated sufficiently?

    posted by : EG on 9/19/2008 at 11:09 AM Flag For Abuse

84. I am shocked at the negativity of many of these comments. Ms. Rendell was being extrememly honest and I don't see why people are so up-in-arms because she spends time with her kid in a bar, lets him go to bed and wake up late, and doesn't send him to school. He's 5. Maybe you're jealous because you have to get up early every morning and go to a dreaded job so you have to convince yourselves that that's the only way to be. You might not agree with her choices, but can you honestly say that her kid is worse off than yours? That in the end, he'll turn out worse? What about the parents who have to send their kids to some horrible ghetto school? Just because it's school, does that make it better than this woman's lifestyle? Yes, she is privileged. Not everyone has the luxury to keep their kids out of school. But she's not abusing her kid. Stop being so judgmental.

    posted by : jbronx on 9/19/2008 at 11:20 AM Flag For Abuse

85. Who are we as readers to determine who is or is not a "bad parent"? What really defines a "bad parent"? Honestly, this woman has a different way of raising her child and unless we are there for the day to day routines (or dare I say "unroutines"?)then we truly cannot judge her for her actions. One person commented that she actually knows the family- perhaps she may be biased, but at least she sees some of the interactions between the parent and the child as well as the interactions the child has with other children. Take it easy on the woman. She's raising her child in a way that may not be conventional, but maybe this is the kind of thing that our celebrity worshiping, media obsessed youth needs in their lives.

    posted by : AnotherPerspective on 9/19/2008 at 11:26 AM Flag For Abuse

86. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there kids dying of hunger and abject poverty in this world? Kids working in sweat shops so that we in the West can enjoy the smug, materialistic life we live(and so our kids can march off to school with their nice colorful backpacks)? This kid does not seem to be doing that badly. He's got a mommy who spends every day with him. He goes to a bar now and then. Big deal. Why not channel your passion and vitriol toward helping kids who really need it?

    posted by : nymamasrule on 9/19/2008 at 11:29 AM Flag For Abuse

87. "Actually I am kind of shocked by these comments. Sending a child to daycare at 4 months old? That makes you a good parent?!"
    
    No, but it makes you a working one who might not have luxury of deciding not to work so that you can teach through experience. Do working parents not deserve children too?
    
    I personally dont care how this woman educates or doesnt educate her kid...but I agree with the prior posters who said it says more about upper-class vs working class privilege than it does about the actual parenting.

    posted by : Nik on 9/19/2008 at 12:07 PM Flag For Abuse

88. nymamasrule - oh please. so we're supposed to now feel bad because we live in this country with all its attendent blessings? Perhaps you'd rather ALL kids live in poverty. I hate attitudes like yours. My life isn't smug nor materialistic, thank you very little.

    posted by : comeon on 9/19/2008 at 12:40 PM Flag For Abuse

89. To the friend of the author that posted above: I think it's great that you have this insight into this family's life. I think the problem is the picture she painted in the piece. She chose to focus on things like going drinking with him in tow, not bothering to read about unschooling and in general how convenient it is for her that he sleeps until noon. So, it's nice that you have these thoughts, but it's important to remember that the author has put herself out there and has chosen what to reveal to the readers. We can only draw conclusions based on that.
    
    I'll repeat my previous comment.... come on, she could at least READ about unschooling so that she can be sure to get the most out of it! And, yes, I do believe that if someone else from a different background painted a similar picture, even more people would be up in arms.

    posted by : tiffer on 9/19/2008 at 12:44 PM Flag For Abuse

90. I happen to know Jo and Benny. Benny is a wonderfully sweet,gentle, well- adjusted child. During their last play date,Benny sat down next to my own 5 year old, who attends kindergarten, and read to him from his "learn to read" book. Jo and Brad are more than equipped to home school their little boy. People who know nothing about this family or the benefits of homeschooling should keep their inane comments to themselves.

    posted by : olivia carroll on 9/19/2008 at 1:27 PM Flag For Abuse

91. Well then Olivia, perhaps "Jo" should have kept her inane article to herself.

    posted by : MotherofThree on 9/19/2008 at 1:43 PM Flag For Abuse

92. Since I actually have known the author since before the birth of her child (a week before the birth of mine, which would make it just about 5 years now), I feel I must say a couple of things.
    
    1) The author is in no way a selfish person. I've already witnessed too many times her and Brad's unselfish nature. They are as warm and giving as any of the other posters here, if not more.
    
    2) Benny (the child) is quite happy, yes, even in a bar at night (which by the way is actually a rare situation). Were he to be tired and cranky, Joanne would in no way keep him there. There is no "unhappy child kept against his wishes" scene.
    
    3) Benny is very social, very bright, and still plays well with others, including my son. They don't get to see each other that much since they moved to the West Side, but when my son and Benny get together they still play very well together, exchange information, and generally have a great time.
    
    4) The little downtown NYC "bar scene" is quite different than pretty much anywhere else in the U.S. Yes, there are the usual sports bars, "Irish" pubs, and slick velvet-roped pick-up joints, but there are also many real "family" type pubs, and there are often lots of kids with their parents. The ambiance is usually very warm and kid-friendly, it just doesn't involve primary colors and scary clowns.
    
    5) I am not homeschooling my child (although I had considered it). Joanne ad I don't always agree on methodology, but we certainly both see that the way one raises a child is a personal decision, and stems from the specific needs and lifestyle of that particular family set. Yes, I have concerns about how Benny is being raised, but I have concerns about the way my own son is being raised as well, as I'm sure most of the posters here do. I would also be alarmed at certain aspects of sending a child to military school, yet I could also see definite advantages there as well.
    
    6) Joanne, Brad, and their son Benny are actual people, with real, 24-hour-a day lives, full of all the drama, worries, concerns and nightmares that all of us have. None of us should be so quick to encapsulate and pre-suppose what goes on in anyone's life. The kinds of "conclusions" that people are drawing: "arrogant" "upper class", "head up her ass", etc. - based on tiny fragments and snippets (this article, her personal blog, etc.) are not only wrong in substance, but also derived from far too little information. Sort of like saying I was crazy for getting on top of a guy when he was on the ground and beating him on the chest - and not realizing the guy on the ground was having a heart attack.
    
    So, feel free to disagree, please. Honest discourse is the cornerstone of a healthy society. But no more talk of calling Social Services, privileged lifestyles, and other outright attacks based on a couple of hundred lines of text. And by the way, saying that "that's all we have to go on" does not mean that a judgment is therefore justified.
    
    I am using my real name here, in the interest of honesty and openness. Thank you for reading with an open mind.

    posted by : Benny Rietveld on 9/19/2008 at 1:46 PM Flag For Abuse

93. I agree that the bar thing isn't an issue. In the UK pubs are often seen as "family friendly" places, and as a PP mentioned I would rather bring my kid to a bar than to a McDonald's... but that's just me. It's the smug hipper-than-thou attitude of this article that is disturbing, especially when a child's future is involved. Funny how these parents are reaping the benefits of a formal education yet they will deny their son one.

    posted by : wynter08 on 9/19/2008 at 1:47 PM Flag For Abuse

94. Tiffer: I'm not sure if you're referring to my post or not (thank you for recognizing it), but I can see where you are coming from. I just realized that I did not put this in my post, but the article Jo wrote is an article that was much longer and it was actually edited for posting. So, while I may not have read the original article in its full length, I'm pretty sure there were other pockets of information in there that were lost due to general (and understandable) "print" (although this is posted on a website, I do remember Jo mentioning that the article was to be edited for length) media contraints. As a former journalist, editing content can certainly change perspectives.

    posted by : TeachingGoesBeyondthe ClassroomN on 9/19/2008 at 1:57 PM Flag For Abuse

95. I have been reading these posts and I'm noticing that some people comment on homeschooled children being "socially awkward" or "academically behind" when compared to kids who go to school. I would like to respectfully argue that kids can be "socially awkward" and/or "academically behind" whether they are homeschooled or not. I think it largely depends on the child and his or her surroundings. I would implore everyone who is posting/commenting on this article to remember that the author is indeed a parent who lives, breathes, loves, and has feelings- just like the rest of us. Ideologies may differ, but let's remember the human element here.
    
    Peacefully Yours,
    
    Lil

    posted by : Lilly1 on 9/19/2008 at 2:13 PM Flag For Abuse

96. TeachingGoes Beyondthe ClassroomN: Yes, I was referring to your comment, and I see that there are other friends of the family posting things. Thanks for thinking some about my point. It's to be expected that in a column entitled "Bad Parent" there is going to be controversy in the pieces presented. It is pretty much the whole point. It's too bad that the article was edited in such a way that the author ended up actually looking "bad" to so many people! People's feelings about homeschooling or "unschooling" put aside, the piece was clearly written (or perhaps just edited that way as you suggest) to get a rise out of people. I actually think it does a bit of injustice to the author and others who chose to homeschool or unschool, particularly if she is doing it truly to encourage her child to learn through experiencing the world around him.

    posted by : tiffer on 9/19/2008 at 2:39 PM Flag For Abuse

97. Benny (the poster, not the child),
    
    You make what would be fair points had the author not gone WAY out of her way to sensationalize the way she's raising her child.
    
    She basically put a "Kick Me" sign on her back (in the name of "literary nonfiction") and now you are surprised that people are kicking her.
    
    I don't think people seriously think the child is doomed. They just hope he doesn't end up a navel-gazer like her mom.
    
    -adam

    posted by : adam on 9/19/2008 at 2:46 PM Flag For Abuse

98. Benny - The rest of America, can't understand how awesome you are and how clearly different your life is. Afterall, there are no other cities in the US or the world. (Maybe parents who live in Paris or London might understand.)
    
    I didn't know there were places that accept children that do not involve “primary colors and scary clowns”. In fact, I only eat at such places with my family. In Bumblefuck, they are the height of sophistication.
    
    Yes you are so much cooler than the rest of us. Thanks and Congrats.

    posted by : beeker on 9/19/2008 at 2:53 PM Flag For Abuse

99. Agreed...it's nice to hear from some real people who know the author and her family. It's softened my reaction a bit, I admit.
    
    However, that doesn't mean that I (and I bet many others here) are entirely confident that letting kids sleep the day away after staying up so late in an adult environment is a good idea. Nor will it sway us that opting out of "formal" education so your kid can do what he pleases is a good idea.
    
    Moreover, the article was for sure written with a holier-than-thou attitude that numerous folks here picked up on. We're all parents who are clearly interested enough in our kids to be on this site, so that many of us noticed that means it's not a figment of a couple folks' imaginations. She should have written with a different tone if she wanted to avoid criticism.
    
    That said, I'm sure they love their kid and that he'll be okay. In the end, love is the most important thing we can give and teach our kids. (With discipline and structure a VERY close second!)

    posted by : mrb on 9/19/2008 at 2:54 PM Flag For Abuse

100. mrb
     
     I don't think the tone of the article was "holier than thou" although I do think it had a tone of "look how DIFFERENT I am. i want my kid to be a bohemian like me". Which can be a bit nauseating sometimes. :)
     
     But let's remember that "different" or "edgy" (god, I hate that word, btw) is the whole angle of Babble, so I'm not sure why people are that surprised.
     
     I also feel that a lot of the commenters have been extremely judgemental and rude.
     
     While I think the author sounds a bit "dippy", she also obviously cares a lot for her kid and thinks a lot about how best to bring him up, which is more than I can say for a lot of people in the world, no?

     posted by : k1 on 9/19/2008 at 2:59 PM Flag For Abuse

101. I don't dismiss this woman's POV or think its heinous like some others though this would never by my style of parenting. I don't even necessarily think she is being selfish or all those other things. In the crazy world in which we live there is some Utopian mindset in me that craves that slowing down and allowing time to smell the roses and not rushing a child from activity to activity and sports to music at the end of each day. Like rats in a maze. However I understand that it is utopian at best...i have neither the patience nor the laizzer faire attitude to make it my mission in life and my kids would not do as well home 24/7 with no structure...so I do what I can...make every effort to buck conventional trends and not enroll my child in every activity and try to foster that creative spirit past the age of 5 when alas it is true school and society will try to take it away.
     
     Having said that I found the article interesting and as someone who has lived and travelled as a child and adult overseas in Asia and Europe...people the world over raise children very differently than we do here in America and they do it successfully by their definition too. And I truly think what passes sometimes for American school culture here is not very effective or productive. Scandinavian countries do not even beging formal education till the age of 7 and their kids outperfom ours. Asian cultures place a very high value of education at home and school and don;t expect a school to do all the work. And there are homeschooling families whose kids do wonderfully well and the families have saner lives than many of us probably. Look no one is going through parenting a child unscathed. Save the venom for the really important issues...not a mother who lets her son play in the mud at age 5 and sip cranberry juice at a bar.

     posted by : mommyfromtheBIgD on 9/19/2008 at 3:08 PM Flag For Abuse

102. Whether the comments are positive or not, it is clear that she got us talking. Well done, Joanne!

     posted by : KidsRulethe World on 9/19/2008 at 3:29 PM Flag For Abuse

103. Friends and family of "Jo," you are SO right. We DARE we judge your friend based on the article that she wrote about her life in her own words? That's just so UNFAIR and we are MEAN to take her words as being actually descriptive of her stance on education and parenting. Clearly, we should all have read the article that she didn't write or the parts that were "edited out."
     
     Now excuse me, I have to go find some mud for the kids to play in while I chug 40s with my friends while they tell me what an awesome parent I am. Carry on!

     posted by : MotherofThree on 9/19/2008 at 3:30 PM Flag For Abuse

104. Responding to EG's question about whether at some point you have to "prove" that your child is getting an education--
     
     New York has one of the most restrictive sets of regulations regarding homeschooling in the US. Parents must comply with them, or face potential legal consequences. The requirements include submission of paperwork such as an Individualized Home Instruction Plan, quarterly progress reports and narrative annual assessments in years when permitted. Testing is required in alternate years from fourth through eighth grades, and every year in high school. If a child does not meet threshold test scores, or demonstrate at least an academic year worth of progress, the homeschool program is placed on "probation" and the parent has a year to get things straightened out or else the state can require the child to attend public school. The state doesn't swoop down and remove kids without evidence of abuse.
     
     Some states have little or no oversight at all of homeschooling. As a libertarian, I wish I lived in one of them, because in my mind, the reason schools are held up to scrutiny is that the state is responsible to its citizens. Making parents answerable to the state for anything less than abuse is, in my mind, taking things much too far in the direction of the Nanny State. If love and a desire to see their child grow into a successful adult doesn't motivate a parent to provide at the very least an adequate education (and I will tell you that from personal experience, the homeschoolers I know are striving for excellence, not adequacy), then I sincerely doubt government regulation will prove more effective a motivator. But that's all an argument for another time and place, as is the efficacy of standardized testing as a measure of actual learning or ability. We must live with the regulatory environment as it is, not as we would like it, the author here and myself included.
     
     ~Chele

     posted by : Chele on 9/19/2008 at 4:06 PM Flag For Abuse

105. To dhsredhead,
     
     Sending a baby to daycare at 4 months old certainly doesn't make her a BAD parent. It's far less indulgent, negiligent, potentially harmfull and completely narcissistic than taking a 5 year old to a bar. At least someone other than a bartender is keeping an eye on the child, because in the author's case, she clearly wasn't.

     posted by : Me on 9/19/2008 at 4:42 PM Flag For Abuse

106. What's scary is the number of people who immediately want to call in Child Welfare as if there was anything at all abusive in the post. I personally don't approve of religious schools but I don't believe state agencies should be called on parents who insist on teaching their children the world was created by a deity six thousand years ago, or that all Muslims/Jews/Blacks/hippies/Mormons/gays/etc are TERRORISTS and have to be stopped. If letting a kid stay up late deserves interference from the state then pseudo-religious ranting about the 'sanctity of marriage' or 'life begins at conception' is also abuse. Should I call Child Welfare?
     
     I understand this post won't play well with the posters who feel she's bragging about her lifestyle. Many of you have been well trained to distrust all things from us elitist media snobs on the coast, even when you live next door. Enjoy your gas mileage.
     
     Full disclosure: My two year old is going to go to public schools, more for street smarts than anything else, but if it looks like he's not learning I'd have no problems pulling him out.

     posted by : anotherdad on 9/19/2008 at 4:55 PM Flag For Abuse

107. Jo, Benny, and Brad are good friends of mine, too; in fact, I'm the host of the weekly playgroup she describes. (BTW, most weeks we drink nothing stronger than seltzer; the beers were a rare not-back-to-school indulgence.)
     
     Many recent studies have found that unstructured play is crucial to strong cognitive and emotional development in early childhood, yet the trend in our culture -- especially in hyper-parenting locales like New York -- is toward boxing small children's lives and brains into one structured activity and setting after another. Well-meaning parents drag their kids from baby class to baby class, then to toddler class after toddler class, then to full-time preschool and full-time pre-K and full-time-with-homework kindergarten; by first and second grades, kids' school day is supplemented not just with a pile of homework but also with organized sports and classes. This is what passes for good parenting nowadays, even as evidence builds that all this overscheduling is harming this generation of kids.
     
     Jo and the other parents in our playgroup think this is way too much school -- and structure -- too soon. We're trying to give our kids the space and freedom to play in the way that many of us played as children: without constant adult meddling in the name of "education."
     
     Sure, Jo and Benny's schedule is eccentric, but you'll notice that Benny regularly gets an age-appropriate amount of sleep -- and the late nights mean he gets to spend way more time in the company of both his parents than he otherwise would. Yeah, Jo and Brad bring Benny to bars; thanks to all the time he has spent doodling in such settings, he's way ahead of his age-group in writing and drawing skills.
     
     It's a shame that some readers took Jo's dry, usually self-deprecating English wit for arrogance. She's a warm, loving, and attentive mother, who has found a unique way to balance her writing career and full-time parenting.

     posted by : LeslieK on 9/19/2008 at 5:35 PM Flag For Abuse

108. I admit that I would never bring my kids to a bar UNLESS there was a certain section for families there. Now on the Unschooling thing, what they do with their kids as far as schooling is their busines. Besides, he's only five years old. I would go about the schooling for my son differently though if that were me, but it's not my business and it certainly isn't me. What people need to talk about is the fact that there are kids who are in high school who read at a 3rd grade level because their parent/parents don't know english. Because of this they can't teach their kids anything or help with their homework. Many people go through the whole 12 years or more of schooling, but still end up in jail, bumming off their parents, or joining the military because they can't sort their lives.
     People need to just mind their own business. A lot of people making negative comments about this article are the same people who let their kids run wild in public places and let them get away with anything they want. I've seen parents do worse stuff with their kids and around their kids in WALMART. What works for some people is not a guarantee it will work for everyone else. I do wish the parents in that article the best with what they are doing.

     posted by : cleoc on 9/19/2008 at 5:51 PM Flag For Abuse

109. I hope your child doesn't have to go through years of therapy due to your irresponsibility. I know there are worse things out there to do to a child, but how selfish can you be? Really!

     posted by : Unbelievable on 9/19/2008 at 6:04 PM Flag For Abuse

110. As someone who has been unschooling with my two children for many years now, what struck me as the most careless aspect of her point of view is that she openly admits to not reading the works of John Holt. I am not sure why, perhaps that was edited out.
     
     Unschooling is a leap of faith (actually, I think sending your children to school is a leap of faith too, but unschooling is a more lonely leap of faith). You have to have real faith that human beings are naturally compelled to learn and that this compulsion, which starts with learning to move one's body as an infant and continues on to learning to walk and talk, will keep on going all the way to learning to read, write, do algebra or whatever needs to be learned to get where ever the child is going. In our society, this is a hard, hard path to travel because it is often misunderstood, even among homeschoolers.
     
     I hope the author will read John Holt and be inspired to keep going: to take her ideas and deepen them, to give them a solid foundation from which to work. I think the whole family will benefit.

     posted by : spinningfrolic on 9/19/2008 at 6:07 PM Flag For Abuse

111. Parenting choices aside -- and really don't we all just do the best we can, Joanne included? -- I did found this author's tone insipid, smug, and self-congratulatory. Further, she wrote the article for "bad parent," she invited critique, and now she's dumbfounded that people are judging her? Seriously? Bringing out the testimonials of friends about her solid parenting smacks of junior high to m. She has made the choices she's made as a parent, and had the courage to share them. So be it. Don't whine and try to convince us to love you now.

     posted by : irked on 9/19/2008 at 6:38 PM Flag For Abuse

112. I agree, irked. It's hard not to just laugh as they insist that what she wrote isn't accurate, she's actually a wonderful self-sacrificing mommy who had dozens of excellent reasons to keep her son out of school. Those reasons unconnected to alcohol and travel convenience were simply, uh, edited out or something. The thing is, you can't have it both ways: she's either a wonderful mommy who wrote a pack of lies in order to get her insipid article published here, or what she wrote is truthful and she puts her own needs and desires before her child's. (Well, unless you're cool enough to think a bar is an ideal place for a five-year-old to spend his nights.)
     
     Personally, I'm convinced that it's the former. The article was written for one reason and one reason only: the check from Babble. And it was published for one reason and one reason only: to garner a ton of comments from outraged readers followed by a massive deluge of shrill retorts from her friends.

     posted by : AllClearNow on 9/19/2008 at 6:57 PM Flag For Abuse

113. I could care less about her parenting choices. Seriously, calling CPS cause the kid was out late? C'mon. But the fact that she is touting her son's education as "un-kindergarten," when in reality she is not doing anything to teach him is kind of annoying. BFD, your 5 y/o memorized some street signs and can repeat them back to you. And I sure hope a 5 y/o would be able to count out 4 quarters, since you know, he's 5 and 5 is bigger than 4. But, hey, explaining that might be dangerously close to teaching him something, and we wouldn't want to do that, huh?

     posted by : pshaw on 9/19/2008 at 7:02 PM Flag For Abuse

114. Pshaw, could you please provide evidence that she is doing nothing to teach her son?

     posted by : reader on 9/19/2008 at 7:27 PM Flag For Abuse

115. it is not surprising to me that many people are in disagreement with jo's parenting choices.
     what IS astonishing to me is the venom you are spraying, the name-calling you are screaming, and the threats you are making. aren't there more appropriate ways to disagree? what kind of example are you setting for YOUR children by such fierce and mean attacks? don't you see the irony in treating someone with such disrespect while yelling about how disrespectful SHE is?
     
     i know jo. she is a loving, compassionate, smart mom. she is gentle and kind and honest with benny. benny is a wonderful boy. she had no idea that babble would put her article under the title of, "bad parenting." had she, i am sure she would have re-routed some of her british wit that doesn't always read right to our american ears. had she been able to foresee this response, i am SURE she would have included in her article many of the amazing things she does with benny--the art classes, the aquarium visits, the reading groups etc.
     
     parents who homeschool are some of the most thoughtful, intelligent people i know, and their kids reflect that. as mentioned above, unstructured playtime is sited again and again in study after study, as critical to the social, imaginative, physical, and intellectual development of the child.
     
     my partner is a science teacher in one of the most respected nyc public schools. she teaches pre-k through 5th grade. she knows the public school system like the back of her hand.
     she wants us to homeschool our son.
     
     i would encourage those who are reacting so intensely to read john holt. you might be surprised by what you learn!

     posted by : leslie n on 9/19/2008 at 7:41 PM Flag For Abuse

116. Woooooot, another shrill retort from Jo's friends! Y'all are SO MEAN, wah-wah-wah, blah blah blah. Give it up, you're not going to convince those of us who agree with her self-appointment "Bad Parent" label even if you drag the entire population of NYC into this.

     posted by : EnoughAlready on 9/19/2008 at 8:20 PM Flag For Abuse

117. Enough with the British wit bullshit. (Yah, I cursed!) This excuse always gets me. Whenever we don't find a British person hilarious, we're all told that our tiny American minds don't get their dry British wit.
     
     I took the attempts of wit for what they were. I took the self-congratulatory arrogance for self-congratulatory arrogance. I'm American, not a moron.

     posted by : beeker on 9/19/2008 at 9:19 PM Flag For Abuse

118. Leslie N, why should I read John Holt? Since your friend didn't bother to do so, it will hardly offer insight into her motivations.
     
     The author's parenting choices are atrocious, but her behavior hardly qualifies as abusive. As someone who was removed as a child from an abusive home, I read the "call CPS!!!" posts with amusement and the even more idiotic "so this child can be placed in a loving home!!!" addendums with dismay. CPS, or whatever it's called in your area, is far too busy trying to place children who've been raped and burned and chained to radiators in clean, non-abusive homes, of which there are a minimum. Talk about your privileged, blinkered world-view -- do you people think that social services is sitting around waiting for you idiots to call them about a woman who lets her kid stay up late and play in mud with other kids? And that a host of foster families are right now gathered around in the kitchen, kneading dough for sugar cookies and talking about how they hope another child will soon join their merry band? The realities are much harsher, and one can only hope that your calls for social services were used for hyperbole and not because you're the most out-of-touch, mentally unstable, and low-intelligence monkeys to ever get their paws on a computer keyboard.

     posted by : please on 9/19/2008 at 9:23 PM Flag For Abuse

119. Beeker,
     You're mean but I like you.

     posted by : Alice on 9/19/2008 at 9:30 PM Flag For Abuse

120. I too am sick and tired of the Anglocentric defense. "You just don't understand us because we're so much cooler and more civilized!" Please. You're British, not French. You're just like us, but uglier and less colorful. You still think Madonna and Gwyneth Paltrow are awesome, for god's sake. We send you our worn-out celebrities when we're finished with them, and you cheer as they ape your lame accents, which are just like Massachusetts accents but with less flair. Your government makes ours look stable, and while you've done a lot of carping about the War on Terra, your people -- just like ours-- were super behind it until you started losing. You haven't produced a decent poet since Shelley or a decent painter since Bacon. Your major contribution to fashion is Burberry. Your major contribution to literature is Harry Pottah. You consider snaggle-toothed, ill-fed, septum-deviated Kate Moss the ultimate beauty. And your TV shows look like ours did back in the 1980s. And you make a lot of noise about being egalitarian and classless, but you pay a bunch of weedy, overbred creeps to live in a castle -- several castles! -- for no reason we Americans can understand, but might have something to do with preserving the purity of the British bloodline. Go choke on your tea and crumpets, Limey!

     posted by : anglophobic on 9/19/2008 at 9:36 PM Flag For Abuse

121. Motherof3 I do live in one of those less restrictive states and it is wonderful. No testing unless we want to do it and then the scores count for nothing really since they are used to determine the caliber of the public school. There is an alterniative on line school for homeschoolers here but it is really a state public school on line. A teacher checks up on you and the child. There are deadlines and strict rules. Not for us. The reason we decided to homeschool was I was told that if I did not get help (medicate) my tantrum throwing, gifted child in kindergarten that the principal could notify DFACS that my child was being "educationally neglected". Because she threw 5 year old fits when being punished in school. Talk about the Nanny State! I would get mad too if I had to spend hours and hours in the Copy room outside the principals office all alone doing stupid worksheets about the colors. It was like a prison and when I dropped her off she belonged to them. So I signed her out and we have homeschooled ever since. I looked over her lesson plan for that class and I estimated that only about 2 hours out of 6 and a half were even spent on actual core curriculum. I can do that at home in an hour. I will not put my child on drugs that have not been fully tested on growing children so the teacher has an easier time teaching a class of 15 five year old. The Montessori school in my little town told a friend of mine who was working there that 70% of the boys at the school are medicated. What are we doing to our children? The psychologist who tested my daughter and found nothing wrong with her except she was functioning at a 4th grade to 6th grade level, told me if a child does not behave well in a situation that it is easier and makes more sense, to change the situation not the child. I agree. Public school is not for everyone.

     posted by : Alice on 9/19/2008 at 9:44 PM Flag For Abuse

122. Jillian K is spot on.

     posted by : niallsmama on 9/20/2008 at 1:38 AM Flag For Abuse

123. Wow, this is the first article I read here. Not sure what else I will find.
     I know that when I have been in bars, with friends and other people's children have been present I have asked the bartender to ask them to leave. (If I wanted child time, my sister and I would have stayed home with her kids, instead we got a babysitter.) I have seen others do this as well. I have also seen someone call the police (who responded with CPS) in response to drinking parents sitting with their children at a bar, at midnight, drunk. (arrested for child endangerment)
     Our job as parents is to guide this small body (and soul) until he/she is big and strong enough to live in this world on their own. We do this by example, in everything we say and do. We may not like things about our world, but our JOB is to raise a child who can be happy, independant, and function in this world. I am not sure how bar hopping fits into that. (it seems she drinks when she takes her kid out???)
     I understand our education system has issues, some states more than others. I have no problem with alternative education systems, when applied correctly they can have great results. But, counting change, reading signs, going to the Met. now and then, sleeping late and watching Mommy drink does not strike me as opening a mind. It strikes me as kinda lazy? Most elemenetary age homeschooled children I have met, have had SERIOUS social skill issues. Getting him good learning time with children of his own age is a healthy postive thing. Instead of beers and mud, maybe museums and hands on learning?
     Kids not only need structure, they thrive on it. When you know what is expected of you, you can focus more on learning about the world around you. Having a child means sacrifice and change, having to put someone else first, 24 hours a day. I am not sure anyone told her that.

     posted by : maratama on 9/20/2008 at 2:53 AM Flag For Abuse

124. It is a pity most of the negative feedback focused on the author or homeschooling in general and is not directed at the rapidly, becoming irrelevant, U.S. public education system. Parents that homeschool make a hard choice and sacrifices to homeschool AND, continue to pay taxes to the declining public education system. Homeschooled children represent only a fraction of children being educated in this country. If the individuals responding to the article with such negativity and disgust toward poor, little homeschooled Billy, use some reason and direct your negativity and disgust toward public school educated Sally, Bobby, Toby, Brenda, etc.

     posted by : HomeschoolingParent on 9/20/2008 at 8:34 AM Flag For Abuse

125. Homeschooling Parent, you're not exactly a ringing endorsement for alternatives to public schooling. Your grammar is abominable! This magazine editor learned the basics of her trade in public schools, thank you very much.

     posted by : educated on 9/20/2008 at 9:18 AM Flag For Abuse

126. I myself am only 14 and I can't stand school, but that may just be because I'm a freshman in high school. I don't know. What I do know is that a child needs their education. And they do get to have fun at school when they are littler. I remember that. I absolutely loved kindergarten, first, etc. right through fourth grade. I totally respect the people who home-school their children, as long as they are learning just as much as they would in school. But this woman, isn't doing it for a good reason, she's doing it to have a care-free life, and I personally don't think she knows what she's doing. Does she not understand the privileges that come from getting a high school diploma and/or a college degree? I mean, her and her husband both have degrees and high school diplomas. Does she not want her son to have the same experiences and privileges that her and her husband had?

     posted by : Alexis on 9/20/2008 at 9:33 AM Flag For Abuse

127. To start out - I thought this article was assinine. I agree with an earlier poster in saying that it didn't have much to explain their "unschooling" and mostly felt like "Not only am I cooler than you, my kid is cooler than you, too."
     
     I am a teacher in a public school, but I am not adamantly pro-public school. If the schools in my area were "ghetto schools" I may look into homeschooling. I think every parent needs to do what is right for their individual child
     
     A few comments that bothered me from other people:
     People who said "I was homeschooled and I'm perfectly fine." No one ever says "I was __________ and I'm a total mess." Not even my stepbrother who is an incarcerated meth addict who had his parental rights for his son forcibly severed. My aunt was homeschooled, and is a doctor, but she is a social moron. I teach high school, and I see kids enter school for the first time as 9th graders, and they often have a very difficult time adjusting both socially and academically. Just because one home-schooler out of millions wrote a novel doesn't mean they all do. (Of course, not all home-schoolers are social morons, either - I'm just saying home schooling isn't perfect, either.)
     
     The comment about how "European kids don't go to school until later" is blatantly untrue. French kids are potty trained by 2 and go to "ecole maternelle" at 3, which is run by the government, so it's essentially universal pre-school. From talking to my other language teacher friends, this is common in Europe.
     
     Also, I hate the implication that schools (particularly public schools) are "institutions" where cold teachers hand out worksheets and bark out orders for kids to sit still in their rows. Education is changing a LOT right now. I know schools where teachers literally aren't ALLOWED to have their desks in rows (personally, mine are in "flexible grouping" to facilitate the social aspect of language learning, and to make transitions go more smoothly. Some days I don't enforce my seating chart, or let them sit on the floor!) I agree that education needs reform, to keep teachers that DO teach that way out of the classroom.
     
     However, most teachers I know are hardworking, caring, educated professionals who have dedicated their lives to learning not just their subject, but about the brain and social development of children, learning styles, learning disabilities (both how to recognize and facilitate students who have them) and different teaching methods and strategies to bring out the best in their students.
     
     As a teacher who is very committed to using Best Practices, Differentiated Instruction, and modern teaching methods (and who works with a staff that is also committed to these things) as well as being part of conferences and curriculum committees to improve our program I take great offense to this idea that teachers are trying to create obedient drones with no creative thought.
     
     I LOVE doing what I do, and spent yesterday creating a TPRS (google Blaine Raye) story and illustrations to teach to my kids, and will probably be looking for new, interesting, creative, thought-provoking things to share with them. (The conversations we have before, during and after watching "Hotel Rwanda" are amazing! I use a Socratic Seminar approach to discussion, which really models for them how to listen as well as participate in intense conversation.) We do not just sit around and drill verbs and adjective endings!
     
     Funny aside: Many people said that school is "too much pressure" as a reason for not liking traditional school. Maybe that is true at the younger levels, but my colleagues and I shake our heads at how much we are asked to "dumb down" or "soften" our curriculum and policies, and students are not held accountable for things we were as students (late assignments, tardies and absences, retaking tests over and over until they pass. . .)
     
     Well, this is too long, but I feel better now. . .

     posted by : epona3 on 9/20/2008 at 10:06 AM Flag For Abuse

128. epona3, your "funny aside" is really sad.
     I am a college professor, and I am totally fed up with students who don't want to learn--they just want to get good grades. There is a distinct difference. I hope I meet more homeschooled and unschooled students in the future; my experience so far has been that they excel in university-level courses.

     posted by : ack on 9/20/2008 at 1:32 PM Flag For Abuse

129. So is this article supposed to make us think negatively about homeschooling? A child has no business in a bar and he has no business watching Juno. I bet this woman is a liberal democrat. Sounds to me like she doesn't want to have to get up early and get her son ready for school. Lazy parenting is what I call it.

     posted by : hollmct on 9/20/2008 at 4:34 PM Flag For Abuse

130. This article made laugh ... I can see how it can be misunderstood.
     Growing up in the former Soviet Union as child I been brought to every party, gathering , funerals and weddings my family attended (sometimes they went way past midnight). My mother didn't forget me anywhere and it didn't make me an alcoholic considering that Russians drink a lot more vodka that any New Yorker who would go out for an occasional drink. Having dirty bangs as a kid was not a problem at all. I didn't smell and had no lice . Europeans bathe once a week - because it's not good for our skin to take showers every day. Having routine baths so that our cosmetic industry can sell more shampoos is what we got used to here. I don't drink but I do bring my homeschooled kids to every gathering, work (I'm a freelancer and my clients are very supportive and understanding ), shopping and never had a nanny not because I couldn't afford but because I felt a lot better having them with me. We decided to homeschool our kids because 4 1/2 minutes on the jungle gym at Manhattan school wasn't enough for my son and sitting in the class learning things that he already knew was not a school we were looking for . We want our kids to enjoy learning. There is no socialization happening in overcrowed schools . Tippy toeing in the corridor of the school and lining up under the whistle for lunch and playground seems to me more like a prison. I watched it all week during the lunch and recess while my son was attending public school. There is no way on the playground to unbundle kids energy - schools limit what kids can do (espesially in 4 1/2 mins), afraid of lawsuits on broken bones while playing on playgrounds. Of course, after that schools label your kid with ADHD and should be put on Ritalin instead of allowing them to be kids . Again, only pharmaceutical companies will benefit. Your kid will be screwed for the rest of his life - learning difficulties , troublemaker, etc. May son wasn't labeled but I see it happening to many, many kids. Growing up in the former Soviet Union was not easy but kids at school really socialized and played outside even it's below 40F (in public schools in NYC kids sit silently drawing @ recess when it's below 40F outside). We decided not to send our kids to good private school - for hefty 24K in NYC ( cost of private not religious school ) we can find a best tutor for a couple of hours a day . I agree with an author traveling in less busy time around the world is the best field trips , as well as going to museum during the week not on the packed weekend - when my kids can enjoy and play at the science museum as long as they want not to worry about other person waiting.
     FYI: our son reads 3 grades above his level , very outgoing and loves science and reading . HE can read all day long. our daughter going to be 5. She loves math and drawing. I can see why an author is been judged so harshly. People love routines, if you happened to do anything out of "pack" you are going to be judged - no matter what country you living in. Of course, seeing that you enjoying your life is annoying to most people. People need to enjoy their lives and be more relaxed. Live lives for youself not for the crowd and certainly kids shouldn't be an obstacles - they should be a part of it. Drinking at the bar with kid next to you doesn't make you a bad parent. Been a part of my parents life made me realize and value life more- good and bad . ME and my sister were part of a reality . Kids in this country often removed from attending wedding and funerals. Babysitter takes place of the mother. I was judged for nursing my kids for a long time , used cloth diapers (for my kids health and safety of the environment), never left my kids with nanny and the only wows I got on my kids been potty trained before 1 years old. but I didn't see anybody want to follow my hard work on potty training kids early . It's time consuming. American Academy of Pediatrics don't recommend potty training before 2 - 2 1/2 years old - diaper companies won't be able to sell many more diapers . People want to follow what they been told by advertisers and lawmakers what is normal , acceptable life. Kid not at bed after 10pm and you are bad parent - even worse if you are in the bar.
     My kids go to bed around 10:30 pm as well and get to sleep late in the morning. My husband works late and I think it's more important for my kids to see their father and spend a few hours with him than go to school early , learn things you already know and pick up bad habits. If my kids would go to school they would see very little of my husband , they would need to be in bed early and my husband is gone to work before they would get up. It's important for our family to be together every day. I'm sure there are some positive things about scholl but for us there were more drawbacks. Biggest one living in the big city is that school didn't have a good recess time with kids running around. Kids living in the suburbs can go outside after school to hit the ball or jumprope but not so easily in NYC. Game stations, TV and computer is the only alternative. The truth is- we had choice. I'm not judging anybody for having help, nannies, routines. IF I had to work full time - we would do what rest of the people do - meaning my kids would be in school...
     back to the the article : homescholling wasn't portrayed properly but this was propably a wrong place to write about it. May be attachment parenting magazine was a better place... there is a chance you would be understood instead of judged. I'm sure I opened another can of worms. Good luck everybody with your parenting . Do what you think is right for you and your family. Every family is unique. Where is no way to say which way is better parenting - when our children are grown we will see the product of our work. We should all be able to say that we did what was right for our family - enjoying the living not the existence of it. This country has a lots of choices, freedom and opportunities for it. Sorry, I ended up with much longer comment but I wanted you all to understand where I was coming from. Thank you for your time.

     posted by : schoolathome on 9/20/2008 at 4:52 PM Flag For Abuse

131. Parenting FAIL

     posted by : FAIL on 9/20/2008 at 6:55 PM Flag For Abuse

132. Wow, I relate to this column 99.999999999% of the time, but seriously, not sending your kid to kindergarten so you can write your novel and go to bars??? seriously??? Man, I felt a guilt when I put my son in the class with the younger kids (tues. and thurs mornings) because it was better for my current childcare situation (I'm also a published novelist, BTW, currently working on my 5th book) worried my boy wouldn't thrive if he was the oldest kid in the class. I'm one of the more selfish parents I know, but in comparison to this selfish bullshit, I'm mother of the freaking year. You're not homeschooling, you're not unschooling, you're selfish, plain and simple. You have a fucking kid. It is NOT ALL ABOUT YOU EVER ANYMORE.
     
     And ack, I'm a liberal democrat. We put our kids first too, a-hole.

     posted by : bettermom on 9/20/2008 at 8:04 PM Flag For Abuse

133. Maybe she's Sarah Palin pregnant daughter.

     posted by : hahaha on 9/20/2008 at 9:52 PM Flag For Abuse

134. I am not against home-schooling at all. I know several people who home-school their children and do a great job preparing lessons and teaching their kids - it's a real commitment of their time and talents - I have great admiration for them. My problem with this author is that she blatantly states that the reason she has chosen to "un-school" her child is for selfish reasons - so she can write until noon, so she can go have drinks with friends at 9:00p.m.- with her child in tow (!??), and so she can go to Europe when she wants to.
     
     Also, she seems very proud of the fact that her 5 year old has seen "Juno." This makes me think of this incredible film and how Juno herself realized that she was far too young and immature, and therefore not ready to make the sacrifices necessary for rearing a child properly, and then chose, very unselfishly, to give her child up for adoption. Ironically, maybe this author should take a lesson from Juno and understand that life changes for you after you have a child, whether you want it to or not, and in making the choice to have a child, you also choose to put aside your own "schedule" in order to accomodate and nourish your child with an age-appropriate lifestyle (and I mean age- appropriate for the child, not the parent) --This has nothing to do with whether or not to home-school, but I don't think that's what this article was really about. It's not that she sincerely desires to home-school her child, she just doesn't want to deal with the hassle of having to get her child to school each morning and to bed early at night!
     
     This is really sad - especially after getting my 12-year old son through 4 years of chemo after he was diagnosed with leukemia AND school, (he couldn't wait to get back!)-and my husband and I also managed to get his 6 year old sister to bed every night and to school the next morning too! Granted, we didn't get to go out to bars with friends whenever we felt like it or go to Europe when it was convenient (or at all for that matter) - but we have two beautiful kids that love school, have friends, and are kind in their words and actions. And we don't feel at all deprived, and we don't want any pats on the back - we were just doing our job as parents, even though it certainly wasn't what we expected it to be.
     
     I wonder if this author's parents made sacrifices for her (like staying home nights so she could get to bed and go to school the next morning) ---so that she could get a good education and end up with a Ph.D.? Actually, I don't even consider this a sacrifice, it's a basic qualification for the job!
     
     
     It's very sad for her child that her own "wants" come first and foremost before her child's needs. Sacrifice and commitment to people and things ('people' like your children and 'things' like their annoying schedules that don't mesh with the way yours was before you had kids) are part of the deal when you choose to have a child, as far as I'm concerned. I think parents should certainly tend to their own needs and have time to themselves, but not at the expense of their children's needs or education.
     
     Oh, and by the way, I'm an early childhood teacher for special needs kids in a public school(ages 3-5)- We play in the sand and water every day, we sing songs, read street signs, listen to stories, and sing songs every day - and it's great fun!

     posted by : Livestrong mom on 9/20/2008 at 10:41 PM Flag For Abuse

135. Livestrong mom, you are my new hero.

     posted by : Knitty on 9/21/2008 at 1:56 AM Flag For Abuse

136. I've got a 14 year old and an 18 year old, both in what would be considered a good public school system. I've been down the pike, and I know the bumps in the road well. I completely understand how a school system can crush creativity and pigeon-hole students---if you let it. Viewed as a centralized system of education that appears to have been designed primarily as support to the scheduling and educational needs of the industrial age, today’s schools may seem a bit out of mode to some. But this grand experiment with Benny, particularly as presented in the context of the writing, seems so egocentric and self-righteous that I feel as if I know these people without ever having met them. Simply fabulous rebels without a clue. On the one hand, as long as Benny is a happy bartender someday, or novelist, or mountain climber or rocket scientist, or whatever and wherever it is that his heart takes him, who the hell am I to judge? On the other, I read this article and realize that it isn't about Benny and his education at all. It's about Ada and her partner Brad (I'm assuming not husband, because apparently that would require an institutional commitment as well, and who needs institutions to validate a lifestyle? Just ask the hippies). Oh yeah...and let's not forget the new child co-star of thier fabulous life, Benny. It's all pretty lame. Not a fan, really. Sorry.

     posted by : Unimpressed in Massachusetts on 9/21/2008 at 10:14 AM Flag For Abuse

137. Oh, what a selfish woman! Granted, I come from a different world; I live in the midwest and am decidedly working-class. But neglect of the intellectual development of one's children is what it is regardless of economic priveledge or a cosmopolitan lifestyle. My five-year-old daughter has a stunning capacity to learn, as do all children, all people. As her mother my primary concern is that she fulfill her potential. I realized early on that if I were to attempt to teach her myself, she could learn only what I knew, or only what it was within my power to conceive of teaching her. Keeping her from adapting to a classroom environment would cripple her in her future learning prospects. Of course it is difficult to let go of my daughter when I take her to school in the morning. But while she is at school she is gaining confidence in her ability to function apart from me, to learn things that I don't know and to teach me, to have experiences that reinforce her self-concept as a whole person and not a mere subordinate facet of my life, to assert herself in her own world. To allow her any less freedom of mind would be an act of cruel sabotage.

     posted by : mimirenda on 9/21/2008 at 11:56 AM Flag For Abuse

138. Thanks so much, Knitty, for reading my post. I love your earlier post about imagining if this article had been written by a mom with little education and/or lower economic status. You're absolutely right - this wouldn't be considered "cool" or "Bohemian" parenting at all. Good point and a real double standard!
     
     I think so much of the outrage on this board comes from parents who do sacrifice their own "wants" day in and day out for their kids just because it's the right thing to do. And then to read the attitude from this writer, who has no concept of adjusting her lifestyle to suit her child's needs, nor does she make educated decisions about his, well, education (and she obviously has the financial means that most of us don't have)- and she clearly feels very superior for doing this.
     
     It's clear that she is proud to be in an artistic community, and she doesn't want her life, nor the life of her family to be, in any way, conventional. I have no problem with that. I just wonder if that desire to be "hip" is trumping her common sense. All I can say is, she is young - and is trying desperately to make sure everyone knows that she and her family are "different." (Heaven forbid if one becomes a frumpy mom who takes their kids to Disney movies and gets them to bed early!)
     It just seems like she also thinks she and her family are better than everyone else too. I could be wrong, but that was the tone of the article to me, and obviously to many others as well.
     
     I wish her and her family all the best - and I certainly hope that we all misunderstood her words and tone- for her own sake and especially Benny's. Life happens, as I know all too well, and at some point, she is going to have to set aside her own schedule for her son's.

     posted by : Livestrong mom on 9/21/2008 at 12:53 PM Flag For Abuse

139. I agree that the writer's tone suggests she is more interested in pointing out how awesome her kid is in her rarefied urban environment, rather than providing deeper thoughts on homeschooling/unschooling. If the writer is indeed a professional writer, perhaps next time she should be more thoughtful about what she commits to paper, and not be so surprised when her glib puff piece is skewered by people who have spent a lot of time and effort thinking about and living through alternative education situations. Sorry, Jo, but you were asking for it, and people are just responding to what you wrote.

     posted by : ms on 9/21/2008 at 1:07 PM Flag For Abuse

140. I certainly can understand some of the mass irritation that the "tone" of this article caused among indoctrinated and school hardened individuals. HOWEVER, living a relaxed family life in the midst of the crazy pace in New York City is not an easy feat.
     
     I have been in this author's shoes. I have also been in all of your shoes. I sent my first two children off to a good public school in the New York area and I did the whole get involved and CHANGE THE SCHOOLS THING ...... and
     
     Come the third child..........I just couldn't do it ....... I had educated myself, and knew better.......for my children. I highly suggest that you all educate yourselves and stop just GOING ALONG and being led by the nose. Our schools are beyond reform, and this is a FACT. I have attended a very good college of education and they actually TELL the students that IN CLASS !!! They teach the students exactly how a good program should be run, they teach how children learn best, they give hundreds of examples of excellent systems to reach every student with all types of learning styles..........AND THEN......they tell you to simply not expect to be able to actually provide such an experience in pretty much ANY PUBLIC SCHOOL IN THIS COUNTRY......period. Not going to happen. They tell these young aspiring teachers......to just go along, follow the established (failing) system.....if they want to keep their jobs. Don't make waves.
     
     I never did register my youngest. I investigated my alternatives and spent time with a local homeschooling group and spent some days with them. I took my two older children out of school a few days that spring and let them come with us. Then I sent in the letter that changed their lives. It was one of the best things I ever did. It was against the grain. There were no homeschooling families in our school district. We were mavericks. And....my husband was a policeman. And.....we the decisions to homeschool was certainly going to precipitate some financial difficulties. We did it for the our children. .
     
     My three children have grown and are very close, even though six years separate them. They are exceptional college students, extremely responsible and by all measures, good people. The truth of the matter is that school in this country started out to train factory workers to follow the directions of their managers. It is still providing that service, but there are no more factories. We do need to think outside of the box. We need for our children to learn about community and to socialize with all levels of society. We need them to meet the baker, and to learn to bake; to become a close acquaintance with the many wonderful children’s librarians who we have in our public libraries, not just be shuffled from place to place all day long by people at the school.
     
     Any you talk about this Mom being SELFISH because she wants to keep her young child close and deeply immersed in her own life. I would call the mother’s and father’s who just can not wait to send their little ones from them and hand them so willingly over to be in the charge of STRANGERS all day long, selfish and totally blinded by the regrettable norm of public schools in this country.
     
     Do you know that, on an average, kindergarten through 4th grade, youngsters are supervised by 12 to 14 adults during the course of a single school day! How can they keep track of all of the styles of ‘parenting’ that these people supervise with?
     
     And do not fool yourself that being stuck in a classroom of 20 to 24 students in your own age group, with a single adult or two, provides SOCIALIZATION. This is far from the case. Socialization is the process of learning about your community; getting along with young and old alike. Picking up paper that blew away from someone at the park.; smiling at someone at the bus stop; sharing your lunch with your Grandpa.
     
     If you are thinking that this family is on the wrong track……you need to re-check your definition of education, and open your eyes,

     posted by : RealityCheck E D U C A T I O N on 9/21/2008 at 3:27 PM Flag For Abuse

141. My partner, Brad, and I haven't really mentioned that he wont be.
     
     "wont be"???
     
     Were you unschooled too? Yikes.

     posted by : sweetpotater on 9/21/2008 at 7:22 PM Flag For Abuse

142. abba1416
     "Teach a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it." "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." "Give instruction to a youth about his way, Even when he is old he turneth not from it."
     No matter how you slice it there is learning going on here. We might agree to disagree but it's still learning.

     posted by : abba1416 on 9/21/2008 at 7:27 PM Flag For Abuse

143. Dear RealityCheck E D U C A T I O N, did you read the article and the responses? I don't think there are a lot of people that are against Homeschooling here. I think the majority of responses are against the way this person is choosing to "Unschool" her child. Your motives for homeschoolong your child were sincere. The author's motive appear to be selfish based on her article. If the school system in NY is so bad, move! We are very lucky that the school system where we live is rather forward thinking and liberal. We are a "hippie", "liberal" couple with two kids in public school and we believe our job as parents is to educate our children in the areas our public schools cannot. Ironically, the things we do with our children are many of the same things the author does with her child (minus the bar hopping and sleeping late). Our kids love museums, reading, playing in the rain and the mud, they love to cook and are very curious about life. We teach them at home what they want to learn and cannot learn at school, and they learn at school what we cannot teach them at home.
     
     Bravo to all those parents that can homeschool their children. We know many of them and they have some of the brightest kids we know. But none of them let their kids sleep late and spend late nights in bars. They put a lot of unselfish and hard work into teaching their children. And they do it for their children, not for their own personal convenience.

     posted by : guitardad on 9/21/2008 at 11:14 PM Flag For Abuse

144. One of the better reasons to unschool is to avoid having your child taught that permanent, committed marriage between a man and a woman is not best for children. Many teachers seem unable or unwilling to teach the truth, in spite of statistical evidence, even while they daily experience the chaos from rejecting moral standards.

     posted by : Grandma of adoptee on 9/21/2008 at 11:38 PM Flag For Abuse

145. As a home-schooling mom I appreciate all the fair minded and logical comments. However to “Sarag”, “Our Miss Brooks”, “Dr. Mom”, and the other ‘dump on home-schooling’ type comments- I say- GET THE FACTS before you speak about something you know little or nothing about. Knowing a few people who home school and then judging the rest of us by those encounters is small minded and poor logic. Educate yourself a little by going to homeschoolinginformation.com or any other of the hundreds of sites with facts and studies about home schooling. You might learn, for instance, that home schoolers “score on average significantly higher than their public school counterparts.” Several studies have also shown that home schoolers are “better socialized” and have a better “self-concept” than those sent to school. (Quoting national, reputable studies you can find on the internet) So comments like Sarag’s, that the high functioning smart homeschooler is the exception to the rule, are just plan ignorant.
     You will find all types of kids that are home schoolers, just as you would in any PUBLIC school…smart or behind, socialized or not, confident or backward…but in general homeschoolers are NOT lacking in education nor are they social misfits. In general they excel above peers in both areas.
     This is not meant to bag on public schools either. I have three close family members who are public school teachers and I admire them greatly for the challenge they have and the great effort they put in. Public schools can work just fine too. I have walked both sides. I started out with kids in Public school in California. When my oldest son hit 5th grade I took him out. After a few years I was home schooling all my children. But- before I decided to home school I researched it for almost two years! …Going to information nights, visiting homes, and reading books. I also visited the public schools. I EDUCATED myself first! Before I made a decision.
     As for this article, it is not the ONE day this five year old kid spent playing in the mud and sleeping in that will ruin him forever! If the kid reads and counts then he has learned as much or more than he would learn in a whole year of kindergarten (at least of the real important stuff- trust me – I have put 6 kids through public kindergarten). Even though I would personally not follow the same routine etc., I hardly think her kid is in any danger. I wouldn’t take my kid to a bar and I don’t particularly like the tone of her article, nor do I think this is someone I would have a lot in common with…and I can understand those commenters who felt a big ego was behind there somewhere. Still... no reason to come down so harsh on her parenting …like people saying ‘they should call CPS’… UNBELEIVABLE! Those of you who feel that way can make the call. I’d like to hear your report… 'One day I saw this 5 year old playing in the mud! AND SLEEPING IN!' Scary!

     posted by : HS Mom on 9/22/2008 at 1:12 AM Flag For Abuse

146. I am going to speak from the standpoint of a individual who was homeschooled their entire life. kindergarten-12th grade. my mom was a brilliant involved teacher. As I personaly faced challenges such as dislexia and hearing loss mom was able to talor my schooling to my needs as well as to that of my two brothers. I have heard every argument against homeschooling and i'll be the first to admit it is not for everyone. However to the dedicated parent with the right circumstances, in seeking their childs best interest it is the most amazing and wonderous journey a parent and child can experience together. What people seem to look at is the end result, so here it is in my personal experience. At 23 years old I am a successful adult with a well paying job, i support myself, i have traveled to Japan, the Dominican Republic and all across the USA on my own. I speak spanish and am learning sign language. Beyond all that I have a wonderful relationship with my family, my mom is my best friend who i do everything with. I am still learning from her to this day. I have solid relationships with individuals of all ages and have never lost my love of life or my childish couriosity. My fellow peers that I grew up with who were homeschooled also have similire experiences. The are succesfull in the most important areas of life as well as being fully capable of supporting themselves. When taking the required state tests me and my homeschooling peers often scored far above average. Yes I still struggle with my spelling and grammer and math will always be a stuggle for me due to my dyslexia, but I am succesful and much of that I atribute to the many hours of time, attention, tears, laughter and love given to me from my teacher, Mom.

     posted by : lalala on 9/22/2008 at 2:17 AM Flag For Abuse

147. I think that the mother is wacky and self absorbed, but not due to her choice to unschooled.
     
     Those of you who seem to think a child of five years playing in the mud or sleeping is abusive are out of your minds (which the officer of the day will tell you if you call CPS/DFS). I say that as a mandated reporter.
     
     Public schools in this country have schedules which complement adult work hours. Does anyone remember when the school hours switched form 9-3 to 8:30-2:30? They switched so that the parents who had to be at work at nine had time to drop off their kids and get to work on time. When most employers shifted or extended work hours so that the work day started earlier, so did schools. In my community, most children must be in class by 8:00am. Did they do this because getting up for school builds character? Nope. Do data exist which indicate children learn better early in the morning? Not at all. Most high schools begin even earlier than elementary schools, yet there is ample data that suggests teens retain more information when they have later start times.
     
     For all of you who denigrate parents who shift their kids schedules for their own comfort, I have some questions for you: Have you even made your child get up so you could get to work on time? Did you ever drop them off at school early so you could get to an appointment? What about making them got to daycare until you get off work? Of course you do! Parents do that to their children. The author if this article merely does it in a different way than you do.
     
     During my childhood, I attended both public and private schools (some good, some atrocious); I also was both home schooled and unschooled. Why? My parents (one of whom is a college professor) were extremely invested in my intellectual, emotional, and social development. They cared deeply about my entire education. Each year, and once-due to a terrible, abusive teacher-during the school year, my parents made a decision about where and what type of environment was best at that point in my development.
     
     The local school district in my community warehouses children, uses outdated curricula and low quality teaching methods, teaches to low achieving students at the expense of all the others, and is testing obsessed. How do I know this? I worked for local elementary schools while getting my M.S., I would not send my kids into that type of social, emotional, or educational environment. While there are some great (and expensive) private schools in town, none of them are right for every child. Neither is home-schooling or unschooling. The choices I make about educational placement depend on what I feel is right for each child. I plan to homeschool or perhaps unschool (I HAVE read extensively on both topics), but will not continue to do so if it is not appropriate for the child.

     posted by : Star on 9/22/2008 at 3:26 AM Flag For Abuse

148. Wow! Do we still have truant officers out there? Someone should call one on this amazingly selfish woman. Newsflash: you aren't home schooling him - you're providing him with NO EDUCATION AT ALL! It sounds to me as if you aren't willing to make any concessions at all to the fact that you have a child - your needs, writing, bars - still come first. A 5 year old will not sleep until noon unless he is kept up all night. I think another valid point to make is the fact that your child has a RIGHT to an education - you have no right to deprive him of that, and make no mistake, you are. Put this child in school where he will receive the structure, discipline, and instruction he needs to live in this world. Let me throw this in as well. I am a teacher, and hold a master's degree in education. I still would never homeschool my child. By the time she was five, she needed to separate from me a little, so she could form her own identity. Socialization takes place on the playground, in gym class, in the cafeteria, etc . . . this aspect of school is just as important as reading and writing. Also - if I was only forced to learn about things I was interested in, I would not know how to add. I would never have learned any science, either. I would have read books and learned about history and art. I would not be a very well rounded person. In a perfect world, it would be great to pursue our own interests all the time, but that's not reality. I go to work, and I would love to just teach my kids. I hate parent meetings and paperwork. Here's the thing, though. I still have to do it! I was prepared for this by GOING TO SCHOOL! You need to stop pretending this unschooling business is about your child, because clearly, it's about you.

     posted by : Missd on 9/22/2008 at 3:52 AM Flag For Abuse

149. Reply to MissD:
     
     Like you, I have my master's degree in education. Additionally, I am an educator in a public high school in New York City. I would like to respectfully disagree with the notion that going to school is the only way to socialize a child. There are many homeschool groups where children who are homeschooled can get together and socialize by playing together, having picnics (similar to being in a lunchroom), and participating in organized sports and games.
     
     Moreover, I would like to respectfully point out that the author is not "providing him with no education at all"; she clearly takes him to classes at the MET, works with him on his reading and writing, and does indeed practice math with him (counting change may not seem like math to most of us, but I distinctly remember learning how to do exactly what this child is doing, only my education happened in Ms. Lopez's classroom and the money I was counting was made of cardboard.) I implore you to understand that while attending school has been beneficial for you, it may not be the best place for all children. Some children may learn better/faster in different settings.
     
     I do see your points about children needing time away from parents to develop their own identities, your arguments for "structure", and being "forced" to learn things that you didn't want to learn (I did not enjoy math as a child either), but there are other ways for children to learn how to add without being in a classroom with textbooks, computers, and SmartBoards.
     
     I don't know if I'm misinterpreting your post (please forgive me if I am) but I feel as though your arguments are supportive of a schooling system that has been in place in the United States since the 1800s (which I will admit, I am currently employed as part of this same system) that may not be preparing our children for the present day.
     
     Please try to see the author's article from another angle.

     posted by : teacherforchildren1 on 9/22/2008 at 9:40 AM Flag For Abuse

150. Grandma of adoptee, your senility is showing.

     posted by : what are you talking about on 9/22/2008 at 10:29 AM Flag For Abuse

151. I have no problems with this mom doing "un-kindergarten" with her 5 year old. Often, especially with boys, there's good reason to avoid structure in their education until they're somewhere between 8-10 years old. And even at that age, there's no reason to have to institutionalize the child in a school. There, I started off saying something nice about this woman.
     
     The rest of her approach is an utter train wreck, and an unfortunate smear of many fine homeschoolers and unschoolers. No doubt many homeschoolers will read this article, and find themselves shaking their heads with disgust.
     
     What a pity she had to take such a gratuitous swipe at Christian homeschoolers by characterizing them as "a bunch of Bible-thumping Seventh Day Adventists who teach their kids at home in order to avoid the heathens at public school." True, they may not be hanging out with their kids in bars at 9:30 at night or swilling beers at the playground...not everyone can be so self-indulgent and narcissistic.
     
     Joanne Rendell: you're a mother, start acting like one. If you treat your kid like a contemporary, he will come to view you with contempt. Kids need boundaries and authoritative parents. Lastly, call me old-fashioned, but what's up with setting up house with a man you love, having a child with him, and being married in every sense except the legitimate one?

     posted by : HomeschoolMama on 9/22/2008 at 11:55 AM Flag For Abuse

152. The comments were by far, the most interesting part of the article.
     
     Since we appear to be voting, I'll also state that I think Benny will probably turn out fine. He clearly has more than 1 "someones" interested in his welfare and that in the end, is the prerequisites to a better adulthood.
     
     I agree that the issue with this article is the tone. The author has very written fluffy piece that speaks more about her place of privilege and choice than any deep thinking about schooling and education.
     I've read much poorly written articles that were more interesting because the topic obviously meant more to them.

     posted by : AVM on 9/22/2008 at 2:01 PM Flag For Abuse

153. I'm torn on this one. I HAVE a 5-year old in public Kindergarten. He is DYING to learn something (anything!) and comes home frustrated each day. "All we did was read books and color, Mommy" It's been 4 weeks now and during "computer class" they have yet to actually USE the computer. Meanwhile, he's on my laptop each night, playing educational games or looking at digital pictures we've taken.
     
     Maybe visiting the museums and being alert enough to go out to dinner with Mom & Dad provides more stimulus and socialization than Kindergarten. I dunno.
     
     Definitely depends on the kid, too.

     posted by : Goofy Girl on 9/22/2008 at 11:07 PM Flag For Abuse

154. Strange, I had to reread the article to see if I missed something, but no. I just didn't find it to be self-absorbed, cooler-than-thou, or bragging. I didn't think Rendell seemed selfish or a navel-gazer. I just saw a woman writing about her life. It seemed like a nice life, too, and yes, one that is not available to everyone, but I can't see why I should fault a person for taking advantage of the resources she has to live the way she wants, with and for her family.
     
     And, for what it's worth, money isn't always the reason people can't make the same choice; here in rural Kansas, I know several moms who would go get jobs if they could find childcare, and the reason my daughter is in preschool (which we have to pay for) is not for lack of money but for lack of support and/or a network of other homeschoolers.
     
     It's not helping me write my novel, though, 'cause I still have a littler one at home . . .

     posted by : prairiecricket on 9/23/2008 at 12:56 AM Flag For Abuse

155. She seems to want a friend, not a child.

     posted by : fenya on 9/23/2008 at 8:29 AM Flag For Abuse

156. I feel that every parent has their reasons for raising their children in the ways in which he or she feels fits their child's learning abilities. I agree with the person who mentioned how this article demonstrates a glimpse into someone else's life- it's not written as a "how to" guide for others. I say take this article, or leave it. Just try to keep an open mind about it.

     posted by : OverIt on 9/23/2008 at 8:39 AM Flag For Abuse

157. I have nothing to say but enjoy typing

     posted by : me too on 9/23/2008 at 12:00 PM Flag For Abuse

158. You hit the nail on the head. Life is about learning, and separating it out into sections (math, reading, social studies) is not beneficial. Your un-kindergarten reflects an awareness and appreciation of of your family's current needs, and currently, you're not needing to subject him to a segmented and irrational institutionalized education. We're "accidental unschoolers" because I spent a fortune on curriculum and school supplies, in fact, every year I still do it, I happen to enjoy having it in the house when people come over, so we "look like" homeschoolers. But the fact is, the kids keep so busy with their own natural explorations that every year they test several years ahead of their "grade." So it's true, school really does make them dumber (read Dumbing us Down) and embrace the funky-cool world of unschooling. You're raising a leader.

     posted by : haters get a grip on 9/23/2008 at 12:15 PM Flag For Abuse

159. For me, the real pain is having to listen to the homeschoolers, unschoolers, no schoolers... talk about how they can do a better job at teaching. This is just another class driven elitist stereotype. Not all of you are smarter than your kids teachers! Enough already, please. As a matter of fact to maintain credentials most teachers have to have masters degrees. For those of you who are smarter than a potential teacher-- you still might not be able to teach. My dad has two masters degrees one in physics and the other in mathematics and couldn't tutor me to save his life. He was the first to open his wallet to a tutor for me. I was in high school and close to failing and the tutor, she had a 6 month waiting list and she taught 4th grade special education at a city public school. She must have been a subversive.
     
     MOST OF TODAY'S WORLD LEADERS WENT TO SCHOOL (No, I don't think all of the worlds leaders are "evil".) Oh, and so did the CEO's of most companies (Waldorf and Montessori-- they are schools too)

     posted by : School wont kill you on 9/23/2008 at 12:44 PM Flag For Abuse

160. Can we get a follow-up every 5 years until he has his own kids?

     posted by : BMORE on 9/23/2008 at 12:46 PM Flag For Abuse

161. I am scared of all these parents who think they can teach without educating themselves first.
     
     Nope, this does not apply to everyone. Author of the article, yup. Oh and the, "no one knows my child better than me argument is a lazy excuse for being ignorant to the philosophies of homeschooling and unschooling. Read a book or ten, take a class or join a support group that holds researched based informational sessions. Gain insight on the subject, don't just call yourself a teacher. Your a parent--it's a given.

     posted by : BMORE on 9/23/2008 at 12:58 PM Flag For Abuse

162. Can we please draw the line at calls for sterilization? I have a high tolerance for assholery, but not of the Nazi variety.

     posted by : please stop on 9/23/2008 at 1:24 PM Flag For Abuse

163. The only thing that bothered me about this article is the title. Unschooling. Clearly (to me: an unschooling mom of 3), this is not unschooling. She also states clearly that she isn't trying to unschool. So it bothers me that the word unschooling and bad parent are appearing in the same title. That is all.

     posted by : crud on 9/23/2008 at 1:52 PM Flag For Abuse

164. She's so superior because her kid plays in the mud and can read subway signs. Guess what sweetheart, your kid could go to school AND play in the mud. School provides more than academic education--like independence, socializing with your peers, responsibility. But of course that is not important, as long as the author can have another beer with her friends.

     posted by : Grow Up on 9/23/2008 at 2:20 PM Flag For Abuse

165. If I'd been able to follow my own inclinations as to learning, I'd never have learned to add and subtract. But I'd have done really well in Duran Duranology.

     posted by : public schooled on 9/23/2008 at 3:31 PM Flag For Abuse

166. So true, 'public schooled'. If I had been given permission to learn and do whatever I wanted as a kid I would have become an expert on Grizzly Adams, CHiPs, and Emergency! televisions shows. I also would have had a large collection of toads.
     
     Instead, I had to go to school. Damn my parents; as a result of their forcing me into formal education in the 1970s and 80s now I have an MBA and am a happy, successful healthcare administrator.
     
     At least most of the shows I watched less than I would have wanted are now on DVD.
     
     Take your kids to school for chrissakes.

     posted by : mrb on 9/23/2008 at 3:49 PM Flag For Abuse

167. Nothing wrong with a large collection of toads! Particularly if you have a garden full of slugs.

     posted by : public schooled on 9/23/2008 at 4:30 PM Flag For Abuse

168. Please Stop , She made the irresponsible decision to have a child and then treat it as a drinking buddy ( and that is a generous estimation of her relationship with him) . I hope she does get herself ( and her boyfriend as well) sterilized as not to subject an innocent child again to her stupidity, laziness and horrible parenting. If that makes me an asshole or a Nazi , Sie Heil ! Her poor son is not capeable of telling her what a total ASSHOLE she is , so I am GLAD to do it for him .

     posted by : Puuuleeezzee on 9/23/2008 at 6:27 PM Flag For Abuse

169. Puuuleeezzee, if anyone is an argument for population control, it's raving lunatics like yourself. Please shut up. You're embarrassing yourself. You can't even spell your own Nazi slogans.
     
     I'm surprised nobody has pointed this out, but saying that a pregnant woman looks like a planet is not adorable at all, it's extremely rude. If any child said such a thing to me, he would get some pretty public schooling.

     posted by : ramona quimby on 9/23/2008 at 8:08 PM Flag For Abuse

170. I gotta say, I'm having a real hard time believing this article. All those bar and beer references oh so casually dropped here and there, the "conveniency" of having the kid sleeping till noon so she can write, the father being a professor... It's practically begging for a massacre.
     She can be an irresponsible lunatic, alright, but this piece doesn't sound serious to me, period.

     posted by : Something Fishy on 9/23/2008 at 9:40 PM Flag For Abuse

171. I just wanted to clarify I wasn't bashing parents working or sending their children to daycare at young ages. I get the need, although in all honesty I personally did stay home for the first year of my child's life even though I couldn't afford to, put college and my life aside during that year and even now that my daughter is almost two I work hours that allow her to spend some of the time I am at work with her dad instead of with a babysitter. I know not everyone can do that, but I also don't believe anyone can honestly say putting a child in daycare at 4 months old makes them the greatest parent. That it makes them a good enough parent to judge someone else's parenting choices or lifestyle just because they happen to have a PhD.

     posted by : dhsredhead on 9/23/2008 at 10:34 PM Flag For Abuse

172. anne05- Great--go defend your thesis to 7 year old children. Clearly you have no experience in an "ordinary" classroom elementary, middle, high school or otherwise, gee!
     
     So now teachers are garden-variety? Please come down from your "Ivory tower" and actually spend the day with an "ordinary" teacher. I think you will find most are extraordinary trying to do superhuman tasks with little support, fewer funds, and having to carry the "What do you do scarlet letter" at a dinner party--Teacher, (dramatic pause)Hmmm, it must be nice to have your summers off." Believe me they leave as soon as you start to explain that you have to have a part time job teaching summer school, dog walking, tutoring, nanny... That bartender or waitress serving the parents beer, hey that could be their night job.
     
     Oh, and please save the argument about teacher turnover. That makes my point, not everyone can teach.
     
     "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -- Benjamin Franklin

     posted by : BMORE on 9/24/2008 at 12:22 AM Flag For Abuse

173. dhsredhead: Hooray for you that you got to stay home with your kid the first year. You win. You're the better parent. It must be so wonderful to know how much more superior you are than those of us who had to go back to work after 4 weeks. I guess I should have just given up on those mortgage payments and student loans and said to hell with my job.

     posted by : bynum on 9/24/2008 at 7:12 AM Flag For Abuse

174. dhsredhead, either you couldn't afford to stay home with your daughter and didn't, or you could afford to and did. There's no such thing as "I couldn't afford to do it but did anyway" because if you did it then you could afford it. Unless you're saying that you went on welfare in order to stay home with your daughter, which doesn't make you mother of the year either.
     
     Very few of us WANT to put our babies in daycare at four months, but unlike you we honestly can't afford to not work. And despite what you might think, kids do just fine in daycare.
     
     Also, if you think it's somehow awesome that you work opposite hours from your husband for the sake of the child, I invite you to take a long, hard look at the state of your marriage. Don't you want to spend time with your husband, or together as a family?

     posted by : reality chex on 9/24/2008 at 10:25 AM Flag For Abuse

175. I agree with bynum and reality chex. It's hard enough being away from my daughter during the day without hearing things like "I also don't believe anyone can honestly say putting a child in daycare at 4 months old makes them the greatest parent."
     Whatever. I work like a dog to provide for my kid and keep us all above the poverty line. If the author of this article can garner such support and praise from you for letting her kid play in the mud, then I should at least get some respect for making sure my baby has health insurance. I don't even think I can look at this post anymore because every time I do I just get more and more depressed. I'm not perfect and I don't pretend to be, but lay off working moms. Realistically, if you don't want to receive criticism, you may not want to write under a column called "BAD PARENT." And now my break is over and I have to go back to working and thinking about how I'm not the "greatest parent."

     posted by : MomofBeans on 9/24/2008 at 10:35 AM Flag For Abuse

176. Having been raised by a "greatest parent" I can tell you that selfishness on the part of the mom can be a godsend for a kid. My mom gave up everything for me, and never let me forget it. She had no hobbies, no interests apart from me. Her marriage to my father suffered, as did my relationship with him. I was totally isolated and felt responsible for her happiness. I would have loved to be in daycare with other kids. And when I got older and needed to rebel, I couldn't because I was my mother's entire life. When I moved out of the house for college, she fell into a deep depression. I've never been able to move more than thirty minutes away from her. We're still unnaturally close. I love her to the point of obsession, and resent her for making me so dependent on her, and for being so dependent on me. I think every day of what will happen when she dies. Will I fall apart completely, or finally be free? Or both?
     
     I encourage all moms to keep the day job, keep the hobbies, keep the friends, and work your kid into life you have. She'll be able to grow up to be her own person, not a tiny version of your own frustrated ambitions.

     posted by : bad parents are good parents on 9/24/2008 at 11:01 AM Flag For Abuse

177. No, BMORE, the teachers that you yourself say turn over rapidly because they aren't good at being teachers are garden variety. They make up the bulk of those in the classroom. Certainly there are great teachers who do a far better job than I could teaching public school, presumably you count yourself amongst them. But the majority of teachers don't fall into that category, and you can't determine which ones you'll get in a public school.
     
     As for my "ivory tower" and defending my thesis, this just proves that you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to higher education. Throughout my career I have taught a variety of ages, including writing camps for kids from third grade through high school, many who were non-Native speakers or who had learning disabilities. The same practices apply when teaching any age group, you just scale the material to the abilities of the student. Certainly you wouldn't argue that elementary school teachers are incapable of talking to adults, would you? Who do you think are teaching the teachers? Those with higher degrees.
     
     It sucks that people don't respect school teachers. Certainly many of your children are contemptous and disrespectful of education when they hit the college level as well, so I get that. But a good teacher is a good teacher.

     posted by : anne05 on 9/24/2008 at 11:01 AM Flag For Abuse

178. anne05-
     
     Of course I have no idea what "you" are talking about. Do you like "guilded cage" better? I am sure your camp counselor days make for great party conversation over your glass of merlot or is that passe'. What are we drinking these days at dinner parties and charity events? Wish I could join you but-- I have papers to grade, home visits to make, students to tutor because they are three levels below grade average, progress reports and report cards to write, IEP meeting to prepare for, DSS to call on a child who's parent hasn't been home in three days, differentiation for lesson planning to wrangle with, classwork to put up in the hall and classroom, fundraising to plan so there are two field trips this year, and take a trip to target for folders, copy paper, printer ink, pencils, and markers.
     
     As for my students going to college? Our city drop out rate is over 70 percent. Curses to those garden-variety teachers. And my students yes, some are disrespectful and contemptuous but not for any of the reasons you would EVER understand.
     
     Get over yourself! I have to go back to work to pay off those student loans I needed for TWO masters (in education)from Hopkins. What was I thinking? I should have gone for that PhD.

     posted by : BMORE on 9/24/2008 at 4:37 PM Flag For Abuse

179. BMORE, I have no idea what you are so bitter about in regards to people teaching on the college level, or how anything you've said does anything but prove what I've said, that public school teachers are often busy, over worked, underfunded, and dealing with a lot of distractions that prevent them from focusing on teaching.
     
     I do get that you think you are somehow morally superior to me and working harder, which we'll just have to agree to disagree on. Particularly since I think you're kinda just being irrational. I mentioned that there were obviously exceptions to the garden variety teacher with a BA and little experience, but that because public school teaching is such a difficult job, they are exceptions. They have also apparently been driven nuts.
     
     You certainly haven't proven that college teachers are incapable of teaching other age groups though, which was the only thing my post stated.

     posted by : anne05 on 9/24/2008 at 7:19 PM Flag For Abuse

180. The anne05 v. BMORE debate is interesting... I'm going to go out on a limb and say my humble, moderately informed opinion is that good teaching requires a LOT more than all the assistantships, office hours, pedagogical philosophizing, etc. in the world could provide. To me, the best teachers have been those with the passion, the right "touch", the flexibility and adaptability, the heart and, yes, the book smarts (of course) to do the job well every day. It is possible for a brilliant, high achieving PhD to be a total asshole who is utterly incompetent in the classroom. I know several.

     posted by : BBBGMOM on 9/24/2008 at 7:50 PM Flag For Abuse

181. Ma Ingalls was a trained teacher, but she still felt strongly about sending her kids to school. There are benefits to school beyond the ability of the teacher.

     posted by : lil house on 9/24/2008 at 9:22 PM Flag For Abuse

182. Of course it is BBBGMOM. I never said all PhDs would be awesome home schooling parents. Just that there are facets of her education that could provide tools and experience to help her be a good home schooler.
     
     I think BMore is confused, thinking I'm suggesting that this author could BE a public school teacher, which I'm certainly not saying. I'm just saying for all the people freaking out about her son that she's likely picked up skills along the path to help her educate HIM.

     posted by : anne05 on 9/24/2008 at 9:26 PM Flag For Abuse

183. anne05
     Confused, no, it must be my middle class sensibilities, oh I mean working class sensibilities that are just offended at your caviler teaching comments. So by your logic really anyone who is multifaceted could be a home school teacher? There are facets of a "street" education that are valuable too. Good to know my street "creds" are good for something.
     
     Most college prof's (full time PhDers I am speaking to)can't walk into a elementary school classroom and teach children. I can't even believe you are that obtuse to suggest it. I will go to the mat on this- survey your peers.
     
     On the flip side: I think I had 5 PhD profs the whole time I was at Hopkins. Most were teachers and retired principals (won't even talk about pensions). I even had a county executive prof once who had his secretary raid the supply closet for us. So most teachers can teach adults. My classes with these profs were so different that the standard lecture. A lecture by design has no differentiation.
     
     Will you now really argue that most PhDers are differentiating instruction for their students. Didn't think so.
     
     Please stop pretending to be a sympathetic mouthpiece for teachers.

     posted by : BMORE on 9/24/2008 at 11:33 PM Flag For Abuse

184. I don't think it's your working class sensibilities. I think it's your lack of reading comprehension and your personal (apparently bad) experience with college education.
     
     Best of luck in the future.

     posted by : anne05 on 9/25/2008 at 12:07 PM Flag For Abuse

185. I can totally get behind people who think outside of the box when it comes to how to best educate your child. I am open minded and consider myself to be very tolerant. This, however takes the cake. This mom is not against school, she's against having to give up any freedom. Dragging your kid to a bar at night, Jetting him off to europe at a moments notice, and taking him to age inappropriate films is not an alternative to kindergarten for him. It is an alternative to kindergarten for her. only for her. I don't see where her child benefits at all from this arrangement.
     
     Does she know she can write while her child is in school? Does she know she can go out and have cocktails and see movies by hiring a babysitter or planning a night out with her girlfriends while Benny's dad stays home? Does she have any idea of basic child development and what children actually need to flourish at this age?
     
     This is not about her child's education at all. It seems it's just about her not wanting to be bogged down in the responsibilities and limitations that usually come with raising a family. It sounds selfish and very narcissistic to me.

     posted by : catsmom on 9/25/2008 at 12:44 PM Flag For Abuse

186. To the friend of the writer, Benny Rietveld:
     
     I can appreciate your defense of your friend after many personal attacks in this column. However, you ask everyone to stop the critiques of "privilege." Not to critisize those of means, but the choices the author has made regarding unschool/undaycare IS a choice due completely to privilege. The median income in this country hovers around $30,000 annually. Roughly half of Americans are struggling far below this $30,000 marker. And for those just above it, the choice whether to unschool or send to school/daycare is non-existant unless they are willing to lose clothing, shelter, food. Yes, the author DOES work...but her ability to do it on her time and in her choice of location IS a result of her privledge, education, life circumstances, etc. Therefore asking posters to ignore this in their critique of her article is really asking too much. I'm sure others wonder how aware the author is that her choices ARE a result of a life where such options are only a dream for most. Public school and or daycare may not always be the ideal situation for every child but almost always is the only option for most Americans. I for one would have liked to hear more from the author on this.

     posted by : msleora on 9/25/2008 at 2:26 PM Flag For Abuse

187. I enjoyed this article. While it is certainly not my kind of lifestyle, it would be very interesting to grow up in the city like that. I really don't understand what all the backlash is about. It seems people are mostly upset that he sleeps late. wth? Who cares if he sleeps late? Would you wake up at six a.m. everyday if you didn't have to? He's a little boy who is learning, has friends, and when he is older can make up his own mind about what he wants to do. What's so bad about that?
     
     It also seems that people are hung up on her honesty about how the school's schedule doesn't work for her family. Her family's lifestyle is different from yours, so what? One person actually said to call the cfc on her and have her child given to someone else. That is disgusting. She's not abusing him, he's apparently healthy and well fed, she spends time with him, and genuinely appreciates his company and gives him praise. How the hell is that being a bad parent? I'm sure you can all think of some parents that are worse than that, can't you? Do they send their kids to school? Does that make them better parents?
     
     Seriously, how is it any of your business to judge her? How many of you are Christian, by the way? What does the bible say about judging people? Something about throwing the first stone?

     posted by : swanvalkyrie on 9/25/2008 at 2:35 PM Flag For Abuse

188. I think the Bible says that you should judge people first and then throw stones at them.

     posted by : pretty sure on 9/26/2008 at 2:07 PM Flag For Abuse

189. I can't remember what It says about judging, but yes, the Bible definitely does include some good stone-throwing. The Bible rocks!

     posted by : SP on 9/28/2008 at 1:45 PM Flag For Abuse

190. It's so cute that the article's author thinks she knows jack sh*t about unschooling.
     
     Because REAL unschooling is work. Lots of work and dedication and very little chance to take your child out carousing. It means being answerable to the whims of your child and finding educational opportunities at every turn. It generally doesn't involve sitting around drinking beer.
     
     True Unschooling doesn't have a lot to do with being cool. Not that the author is cool in my books. Pretentious? Yes. Ineffectual? Yes. Delusionally self-absorbed? Double yes. With a cherry on top. But cool? No. Tepid? Perchance.

     posted by : Joy Filled Girl on 10/7/2008 at 1:10 AM Flag For Abuse

191. I agree with Motherofthree. This article made me sad. To think of the child dirty and sleeping all morning because his mother doesn't want to be bothered bathing or getting him ready, I don't know, this is just depressing. Does she really think that having a child out at a bar at ten o'clock at night is good for him?
     
     I don't want to flame this person, but I hope they stop being selfish and look at the damage they are doing to this delightful-sounding child. If you really are ok with choosing cocktails with friends over caring for your child, you need help.

     posted by : chowmain on 10/9/2008 at 9:47 AM Flag For Abuse

192. This whole premise is sweaty.

     posted by : Werewolf Bar Mitzvah on 10/10/2008 at 11:09 AM Flag For Abuse

193. Come on: the bar anecdote is a red herring -- the kid isn't in danger or unsupervised. He certainly gets plenty of sleep -- so what if it's not between the hours of 8pm and 8am? I'd do the same thing if I thought my kid would sit still long enough for me to enjoy it. Clearly, the majority of commenters here missed public school on the day that "irony" was taught. Here's an example of irony: when a bunch of commenters accuse an author of being self-congratulatory about her parenting choices, and then proceed to behave in exactly the same way about their own. Ridiculous.
     
     Why do you all think that there is a one-size-fits-all approach to raising children? What makes you think that you're in on the secret to raising a well-adjusted, self-sufficient child and that the author of this piece needs to be at best enlightened, or at worst, have her child taken away from her? I wonder what the average age of your children is: how is it that you're sure yours is going to turn out beautifully, and the author's won't? Instead of admonishing the author to read up on homeschooling, maybe you all should read up on the history of public school education and ask yourselves why you assume that a textbook approach is the only way to get a good education?
     
     I've been a working mom to a baby in day care, a working mom to a child in school, a working mom to a homeschooler, and now I'm a SAHM to a teenage unschooler and a toddler who will eventually be homeschooled, or unschooled, or whatever seems to work for him. My kids aren't better or worse than anyone else's: they have some stellar qualities, and some annoying qualities. Most people who meet my teenage son remark on what a polite, intelligent and well-spoken person he is, even though I sometimes worry that he's a bit anti-social. (OH NOES! What about SOCIALIZATION?)
     
     Anyway, I liked this article a lot. I think the author sounds like a great mom, with a great kid. I suppose she could have written an "informative" article about homeschooling; of course, then it wouldn't count as a "bad parent" column and I doubt you all would have felt nearly as good about yourselves after commenting on it.

     posted by : Live and Let Live on 10/12/2008 at 6:07 PM Flag For Abuse

194. I was aghast so many times during the course of reading this article that I don't know where to begin.
     
     First of all, I have 2 kids and we've been homeschooling for 4 years, and I love the fact that we can homeschool and generally support most homeschoolers.
     
     I'm not sure if the author was aiming to shock the readers or if she truly believes her attitude and behavior towards her son is the right thing.
     
     1. I'm not sure if socializing with friends and having your kid stay up late is responsible parenting.
     
     2. I'm not against unschooling, but in this case unschooling is no-educating. You don't need to stick to a curriculum, but one should have some ideas what you want to do with your child.
     
     3. When Ms. Rendell says, "dirty bangs," she gives the sense that the child was dirty and I had the sense that things in the room were in disarray and dirty as well. I'm not accusing, but that was the sense I got.
     
     4. If Ms. Rendell wants to unschool, it would be nice if she could have said she read John Holt.
     
     5. You don't need to get academic in kindergarten, but at least give the appearance that you are doing something instead of taking your son and staying out late and letting him watch movies like Juno. I don't even know if I would let a teenager view this movie, let alone a kindergartner.
     
     6. PhD or no PhD, published book or no published book, you need to take a look at what you're doing. This is your child. It is not all about you, your career and cheap flights to Europe.
     
     7. Who's idea was it to add Bad Parent to the title of the article? Is this a question or a statement?

     posted by : BrooklynMom on 10/15/2008 at 4:03 PM Flag For Abuse

195. get over yourselves. how dare you people refer to CPS???
     have you any idea of what that means? maybe someone does
     not like the idea that you spank your child, let he or she run
     around naked or kiss the opposite sex parent (if there is one)
     on the lips. let her raise her son the way she wants and try getting
     involved where there is REAL abuse and neglect at hand. These are
     the same people who would be outraged if anyone questioned
     their own parenting style.

     posted by : nyc on 10/16/2008 at 10:10 AM Flag For Abuse

196. I think they're doing a fantastic job, way to go! As an Ivy graduate, I too, plan to educate and rear my future children in a similar manner. In today's world of so much disinformation and industry competition, the truly 'responsible' parent should grab the reins of their child's education and yes, part of that is allowing their child to experience and discover the real world while applying those lessons to a superior educational program that will allow for them to surpass and succeed years later in this world where most children are simply being prepped to be mindless worker drones.

     posted by : wolfenraider on 10/16/2008 at 10:38 AM Flag For Abuse

197. With terrible options for middle school and knowledge of international standards (we lived in Germany and Australia) I simply refused to send our twin daughters into a failing middle school system. Unschooled for 3 years, we exposed our daughters to travel ; Peru,Turkey,Estonia,Latvia,Germany,Switzerland for example, courses via the internet of their choosing; Spanish, Algebra,Photoshop, music ; piano, flute, guitar,sport ; tennis, tae kwon do. We adored every minute we were able to spend with our children. Everyone had an opinion, friends, family, educators about our decision and I am glad to say in our case they were wrong.
     
     The girls have recently returned to "regular" school, 9th grade, one attends a fine arts high school for drama, the other another arts school for graphics, to find themselves well ahead, actually years ahead in knowledge,composure, understanding of the world and love of learning. Each different trip was exposure to the real world, outside of books and classroom walls. Peru for 3 weeks brings insight into a different culture,language and history, fostering an understanding of the challenges others must face, a compassion and desire to participate in working towards a better future for all.
     Exposing them to so many and varied situations helps them grow into people I am proud to know.
     Best job I ever had was unschooling my children. I wish you and your son a fantastic ,exciting, knowledge filled year.

     posted by : MiamiMama on 10/16/2008 at 11:04 AM Flag For Abuse

198. I find the time I spend with my 3.5 year old is quite similar to what is described as unschooling - following her interests, folding lessons into daily experiences, like learning the names of plants as we take a walk, learning the shapes of the street signs, etc.
     
     Also I take my child out for dinner and drinks.
     
     But I have changed my drinking time to 5-8PM to fit her schedule.
     
     I do feel sorry for the kids in all the mediocre quality day-care environments we experimented with before I stopped working full time. I have put a lot of effort into finding an environment that allowed her creativity and natural learning process to thrive.
     
     She goes to preschool where she loves the cooking, art, songs, playground time etc. It is a play based program and fantastic. Even kindergarten is only what - 6 hrs a day? Theres lots of other time for enriching your child as you spend time with them, if you have the luxury of being able to work less than full time.
     
     The lack of structure for this child would certainly not work for my daughter. Most kids thrive on structured activities and that is part of why there are so many negative comments to this article from parents. Also it does not seem like the due diligence was done to determine if the school environment would work for her son, it truly seems to be about the family entertainment schedule.

     posted by : oranger on 10/16/2008 at 11:53 AM Flag For Abuse

199. This article isn't about school bashing or depriving a 5 year old. If any of you have volunteered in a kindergarten classroom lately, you would see that a lot of what is happening there is conditioning to succeed in a group environment in the upper grades: pay attention, complete a task, eat, practice your writing and numbers, play, read, follow instructions, play, eat, work nicely with others, etc. Different stuff than what this kid is getting for sure. As long as the kid's needs are being met *not just the parents* there isn't any harm being done.
     
     However, their son's teacher will have a big job trying to teach him all these things when he does eventually join the group, long after other kids are in the groove. Perhaps maturity will temper it a bit? Tough to say with all the early schooling we now give - is it really necessary or do we just think it is cause everyone is doing it? The late night events will be the kicker: the work/school world works on a very early schedule so it will be a hard transition later to getting up at the crack of dawn!

     posted by : educator on 10/16/2008 at 12:00 PM Flag For Abuse

200. Unschooling is fine if it's something you believe in, but in this piece is seems to be more for the convenience of the parents than for the good of the child.
     
     The most bothersome part is that the parents are dragging this kid out to a bar and keeping him out late...to play on his own with toy cars and sip cranberry juice when he's likely bored out of his mind, would rather be in bed, but his parents are too cheap or lazy to get a sitter and won't deny themselves a night out.
     
     If that's not irresponsible and lazy I don't know what is.

     posted by : shocked on 10/16/2008 at 12:41 PM Flag For Abuse

201. WOW....Amazing how many perfect parents there are on this site!!!
     
     If the kid doesn't affect anyone in the community negatively, who is to say what's the right approach to a home-schooled child? Basically, as long as no patron in the bar didn't complain and he doesn't bring his Charlie Brown, Pig Pen routine out in public sight, he's his mother's problem only.

     posted by : LiveAndLetLive on 10/16/2008 at 1:08 PM Flag For Abuse

202. Boy, are 95% of you guys idiots--like 95% of all people. You can tell that there are hardly any real intellectuals responding to this well-written, literary, and captivating piece. Great article, and the reason most people are up in arms about it is that they are brainwashed to thinking that education as it is now handed to us is actually the only way to educate children. I'm laughing my *** off here.

     posted by : college professor on 10/16/2008 at 1:49 PM Flag For Abuse

203. Congratulations. Your child will grow up learning that life is about sleeping in late, trips to Europe, and 'writing' novels no one gives a rat's behind about, and that the entire world revolves around him and his wants.
     
     
     Thank you so much for bringing yet another self-absorbed, uneducated moron into the world! You must be so proud!
     
     
     PS: You aren't 'cooler' than me by raising your child this way. It just means you are just as mentally immature as your 5 year old.

     posted by : Yougottabekidding on 10/16/2008 at 2:11 PM Flag For Abuse

204. I admire the parents for their courage to choose to be free and most importantly to give their child a happy childhood.
     
     I went to regular schoold and like the parents in this article was an A student, double major, and finished graduate school. However, just like the parents in this article I will not force my children into this system. One size does NOT fit all. And happiness is more important than which school you attend or if you got all As during graduate school....
     
     However, not everybody can afford to stay home with their child....

     posted by : monica from new york city on 10/16/2008 at 2:31 PM Flag For Abuse

205. Happiness doesn't pay the bills, nor does it get you into graduate school with a PHd as an afterthought. The kid is being left to his own devices.
     
     Laziness on the part of the parents does NOT make you 'cool'. It makes you irresponsible.

     posted by : Yougottabekidding on 10/16/2008 at 3:08 PM Flag For Abuse

206. It's amazing to me that so many people who are ignorant of something such as unschooling, will angrily toss their judgments onto the internet for all to see.
     
     The author has a sense of humor that most of you seem to have missed. She's also intelligent and obviously loves her child. Unschooling is not for wimps or for those who think it's an easy way out; it's very hands-on. If there's a lazy unschooling parent, I haven't met him/her yet. And I've met over a thousand.
     
     I unschooled my daughter for 18 years and she is now A.B.D. All But Dissertation. She'll be receiving her PhD soon. She embraces learning with a passion I envy.
     
     If you're going to judge, at least make an effort to understand what you're talking about.
     
     Valerie Fitzenreiter
     author of The Unprocessed Child: Living without School

     posted by : valfitz on 10/16/2008 at 4:19 PM Flag For Abuse

207. This parent is neither homeschooling nor un-schooling. She is, in fact being lazy and pretty irresponsible. She treats her son like an accessory. She should get a dog--oh wait, you wouldn't be able to keep your dog in the bar, and would have to have a regular schedule of feeding and walkies, perhaps even early in the morning. It's not all about the author anymore, nor about cheap flights to Europe. And there's nothing wrong with Monsters Inc. anyhow, or Finding Nemo--all the other posts about how those boasts are all about the author's ego are spot on. I beg the author to please control her hyper-hipness long enough to really parent, okay?
     
     The author's friends have leapt to her defense, and she may be a better parent than she is a writer, but all we can go by is the hogwash she put on the page. I agree that if this article was written by a poverty-stricken mother there would be far fewer supporters for her words. I'm actually acquainted with a stay at home mom who treats her kids in a similarly cavalier fashion with regard to schedules and routines. We were all so grateful when those kids got into school and away from their mom for a good chunk of the day. Not CPS-level abuse in either her case or the author's, but still crummy parenting; it's compounded for the kid in this article because there is no school to which to escape.
     
     I also agree with that her novel will probably be worthless. If you want to read a parent who handles writing and her kids, try Catherine Newman. Plenty of self-absorption, but Newman manages to put her kids first in some great ways.
     
     The author's dilettante experiment will perhaps be over by next year, as age 6 is the mandated age for some type of education. By then the author will perhaps: read John Holt and properly un-school her son; research curricula and study groups and properly homeschool her son; or put her son in a regular school. Here's hoping!
     
     p.s. Babble managed to get a good spike out of this piece of polarizing fluff, esp. with a mention in the NY Times. I for one won't be back.

     posted by : accessory on 10/16/2008 at 4:47 PM Flag For Abuse

208. Wow! Such negativity....Are you really all sheep who can't imagine not following the herd? Try to really think about what's happening in public school. Your child is being socialized by 30 other 5 years olds! My child is being socialized by all the people he meets. He's learning to interact with everyone and see that everyone can be interesting. He doesn't have the prejudice that only certain age children can be your friends and you can only learn from teachers. He's learning so much more about the things he's interested in, when he's interested in them. What could be better than that? It's common knowledge that that's best way to retain the things you learn. He's also learning many more skills that he would never learn in school. He's got time to explore, to figure things out, to question and try out the things he's learning.
     
     Schools are completely outdated. Public school was implemented to train factory workers not to question or stray from their duties. To respond to bells that tell them what to do and when to do it. No thinking or questioning allowed! It's no wonder we've fallen so far behind other nations in so many subjects. It was planned and it's working quite well. If you're not able to think, you don't protest or try to change anything for the better. You're very well trained.

     posted by : sense2008 on 10/16/2008 at 4:50 PM Flag For Abuse

209. Interesting ... my view is that school provides a social education, and hopefully a little learning in the process. Social fluency as every bit as important as deep knowledge in life, perhaps more so. If anything my response is that the unschooling approach sounds more difficult than it needs to be -- doing these things after school would give a child the best of both worlds, and provides the parents with some very necessary time among other adults. One thing I can give my children, I figure, is a father who is happily engaged in the adult world at least part of the time -- a world that they will hopefully want to enter at some point.
     
     But I think the authors objectives are admirable.

     posted by : chattydaddy on 10/16/2008 at 5:47 PM Flag For Abuse

210. This is wierd. I went to ny public schools and learned about 16 things in the first 8 years. it was like a nightmare and i grew to be depressed. the only redeeming factor was that teachers left me alone to read the dictionary or work on number theory. then i went to bx science and started to be challenged. but there are no elite elementry schools in ny public system.
     
     how i wish my mom had let ne roll in mud. as it was i had to wait for college to do that.
     
     people want their kids to get good jobs so they send their kids to schools that make them into worker bees. this may have made sense in past, at least for selfish parents ends, but i have news for you. in future there will be no jobs execpt for crappy ones. self sufficiency is the way to go. that kid benjy? is very lucky. he is learning to be human.

     posted by : paul easton of bensonhurst on 10/16/2008 at 6:14 PM Flag For Abuse

211. I have to say I've enjoyed very much reading over the reactions of all you petit bourgeois parents that consider yourselves "progressive", ie. tolerant. Really, it's quite amazing to see how so many of you "open minded" folks feel you have the right to judge how others raise their children, to determine what is good, or bad for a family and a child you don't even know and will probably never meet.
     
     My prediction is that this kid will grow up to be a creative, happy, fulfilled adult. Your kids? sure, they'll be happy and fulfilled too, just like you are.

     posted by : appylikeippo on 10/16/2008 at 6:35 PM Flag For Abuse

212. I guess I don't get it. First off, the tone of this piece was clearly written to instigate--that it did! But beyond that, the author did nothing except admit that she wasn't yet ready to enroll her child in kindergarten. That same decision is being made by parents across America, and more than you would think--it's called red-shirting.
     
     Whether or not she teaches her child at home or she enrolls him in kindergarten next year--she legally has a year to figure it out. I am a teacher, and I see first hand the need for educational reform. If a parent wants to nurture and support creative development and foster independence and self-interests, I say Bravo! Clearly, if you were reading the same article that I was, you wouldn't have missed the obvious love that she has for her child. She doesn't sound any more self-indulgent than the average American to me, but rather her indecision displays her ambivalence toward an educational system that is failing American children right and left.
     
     I'm sure she is reading these responses with a chuckle. She obviously doesn't care what her readers think of her, or she would have crafted her story differently. How fortunate for her son that he gets to spend another year wrapped in the love of his mother.

     posted by : momandteacher on 10/16/2008 at 10:47 PM Flag For Abuse

213. I'm blown away by the harsh comments from so many readers. My daughter is well past (un)kindergarten age and as I look back two and a half decades to when I was a single mother in Manhattan, I wish I'd had the awareness and the community to educate my daughter in an UNconventional manner. Instead, after I got divorced, I went to a job each day, leaving her with a nanny I could barely afford, paying for private pre-school I couldn't afford. 25 years later what I wouldn't give to go back and have that time with my child.
     
     That cliche all of you young parents hear "it goes by so fast" should be heeded. That little boy will benefit more from those hours with his mother on the subway, at the museum, shopping in Chinatown than any fancy $20,000+ a year preschool or kindergarten in Manhattan has to offer!

     posted by : AlmostGrandma on 10/17/2008 at 2:18 AM Flag For Abuse

214. Benny is missing out on hours of standing in line, waiting, being told to put his head down because the kids are too noisy, being told to be quiet, and being forced to sit quietly in his seat. Otherwise, he is getting the best education possible with his two highly educated and loving parents. Get a life, all of you with your negative and "concerned" comments.

     posted by : Maia_Mom on 10/17/2008 at 9:35 AM Flag For Abuse

215. Dear Clueless Commenters:
     
     Reading your comments I see that most of you know nothing about Unschooling and you'd like to keep it that way. Fine. But to participate intelligently in a conversation, it really, really does help to have some knowledge about the subject rather than just shooting off the first thing that comes to your mind. (Hey, I understand if you prefer that your kids be schooled so that they can someday work in a factory. Pssst, those are now in China. Lofty aspirations, indeed.)
     
     Here's just too small facts about Unschooling:
     
     Unschoolers do better in college than those traditionally educated and are in demand by college recruiters.
     
     The #1 occupation of a home schooling parent is (ta-dah!) Public School teacher. Yes, those who get paid to teach are the number one group choosing to Unschool their children. Might they know something that you don't?

     posted by : Santa Rosa Dad on 10/17/2008 at 4:05 PM Flag For Abuse

216. Different strokes for different folks. Diversity is what makes this world as interesting and challenging as it is.
     
     When I was in graduate school with a toddler I knew people who thought that the fact that we did not have a TV made us unfit parents (and seriously talked about calling CPS). Because our research and family ties required it, we traveled with our baby/toddler through remote parts of Latin America and Central Asia. Although there were those who felt that this, too, verged on neglect, the child was (and remains) fine. We never had a babysitter, he came to every dinner and party with us and hung out drinking juice on cafe patios while we (gasp) had a beer. As far as relief at his sleeping late -- my dissertation was written because I got up at 5am and he slept until 9am. In short, he was an extension of his parents in the early years and I can't imagine not having him with me as we did the things we did. Today he excels in public school while his little brother goes to a fairly non-traditional preschool. he shows no negative affects based on the unstructured nature of his infancy and toddlerhood. Many of our friends did (and do) it differently, but it's all OK; parental nurturing and care take different forms. If un-schooling (even if you're not following the traditional un-schooling methodology) is what does it for you (and your kid) then viva la difference!

     posted by : weddedtoacademia on 10/17/2008 at 5:11 PM Flag For Abuse

217. Perhaps she's homeschooling her son so that he'll come to understand use of vivid imagery and literary devices?
     Our days probably look a lot like slacking to people who are focused on competitive academics. My 10yo son got up at 7 when his dad left for work, but his twin sister was still in bed at 10:30. Right now she's reciting a long involved story involving two foxes and a suicidal echidna, and he's finally getting dressed (it's five PM).
     I could also point out that she's elaborating on Joseph Campbell's hero archetypes and how the animals fit into the framework, and that he just finished working in Autocad...but why? Probably CPS won't care when they come bust us for sleeping late.
     
     Jenan

     posted by : FLhomeschooler on 10/17/2008 at 5:23 PM Flag For Abuse

218. my parents were worldly MD's and globetrotted with four children through every continent working free clinics; the four of us went to bed sometimes when i sun went down, sometimes when we were tired, but always contented and excited about the next morning. today, we hold PhD's, MD's, JD's from Columbia, U. Penn, UofM and Harvard between us, and we admire the strength and determination of all parents!
     Why are we wasting time judging and criticizing homes in which we are not a part? Celebrate our diversity: we know that it makes for a richer humanity. Jealousy and contempt are so unbecoming: teach your children that at least, if you haven't learned it for yourselves!

     posted by : Ming on 10/17/2008 at 5:55 PM Flag For Abuse

219. Circumstances dictate that both of my children attend public school right now. Were we to have our way we would homeschool/unschool. We did it for two years -- and it was wonderful. Public school here isn't that bad, it was just much better when we homeschooled. We were less frazzled, able to enjoy our time together more, and could get into the things that interested my children on a much deeper level (as we had the luxury to do so).

     posted by : StephanieD on 10/17/2008 at 7:08 PM Flag For Abuse

220. My children have always been unschooled. They are night owls and frequently stay up past 2am and sleep in. They are intelligent, compassionate, and capable human beings despite not following a rigid schedule or doing homework. They have traveled extensively with me in our RV.
     
     My daughter is 14 and a budding photographer and graphic artist. She is also familiar with html code. She is also rides horses and has worked at the barn.
     
     My son is 10 and an avid skateboarder and gamer. He is also familiar with html code, delves into WWII and has a working knowledge of weapons and planes; he's also a huge fan of the Discovery Channel and the History Channel.
     
     The basic tenet of unschooling is trust: trust that your kids will learn what they need when they need it. It also involves exposing your kids to lots of things: movies, TV, museums, battlefields, parks, hiking, beaches, books, internet, games, opinions, and ideas. Unschooled kids have retained their enthusiasm for learning and their curiosity hasn't been squashed.
     
     Those condemning the author and unschooling without educating themselves on what, exactly, it means shows ignorance and is very telling. Unschooling is nothing new. There are plenty of grown unschoolers out there living lives as productive citizens without ever having stepped foot in a formal classroom. And, there are plenty who chose college and graduated and did very well.
     
     Don't believe everything you think. Open your minds to the possibility that other parents have figured out another way that works for our families.

     posted by : Unschooling Dad on 10/17/2008 at 11:59 PM Flag For Abuse

221. I find it highly amusing when some of the unschoolers tell the author that she could unschool better if she got it out of a book...Do you believe in your method or not?
     
     As far as the rest of you, jeez, talk about mass stupidity. She has a few drinks and she's roaring drunk (says more about you than her), she has a beer with friends with her child present (do you people not barbecue?) which no other parent EVER does, her kid is on a different time frame than yours AND she takes advantage of it to work (are you aware it'd be EASIER to write if he was at a school all day, not harder?), she doesn't lock her kid up in a classroom with 30 other kids who don't talk to one another and listen to lecturing all day and yet SHE'S guilty of not socializing? And another thing: socialization and socializing are two different things. Look them up. Socialization is learning about your community and how to get along in the world. Socializing is interacting with others. He's getting plenty of both I'd say and I wouldn't brag that your kid's socialization consists of other children telling him how to properly act in the real world. I have 5 kids, I don't want them teaching other kids how the real world works. The things some of their immature logic comes to are hilarious, but not nice for daily living. Farting in someone's face is hardly the proper reaction to having someone kick over your blocks. I think that's a lesson best left to parents. I write too, I take advantage of naptime to do so since I have a couple of morning people kids. OOOO..how selfish am I to put them down for a nap so I can write!!! Wait, they'd be asleep at that time ANYWAY. I let one of my kids sleep until 11:00 am today and let her stay up late last night...ouch, kids should all sleep at the exact same time: nighttime. I mean ALL adults are day people, there's no such thing as a night person. It's not like kids are individuals with their own traits and behaviors, they are all exactly the same.
     
     And yes, the biggest secret of them all, we homeschoolers have TONS of disposable income just lying around. I mean, jeez the only reason my bills are behind is because we're lazy. It has NOTHING to do with living on one income. We're secretly rich, we just live like this for FUN. Ahhh, the life of the privileged...
     
     I'd like to also point out the arrogance of those accusing Jo of arrogance. You think your way is the best, you are just as guilty. I think my way is the best. She may think her way is the best. It's easy to accuse someone of arrogance for saying how great she thinks her idea is while you're yelling at her for not doing it YOUR way...Perhaps this world could use a little more thought and a lot less squalling...but then again, I've noticed the internet is a bit short on thought when comments sections are included. No offense to those of you who bothered to THINK about the article before having a hissy fit.

     posted by : Jales on 10/18/2008 at 12:40 PM Flag For Abuse

222. Just read about unschooling in today's NYT's. YEAH FOR JOANNE AND BENNY!!
     
     I am disgusted by mothers who view their children as another project to be perfected as opposed to a human being with unique needs. Like everything else in their lives, these mothers make it all about them. And they have the audacity to decry how difficult it is; how crazy their lives are and how they've lost themselves.
     
     They love being the martyr and God help you if you mention that maybe they should eliminate a playdate.
     
     These moms aren't doing their kids a bit of good. Only time will tell how this generation will turn out.
     
     I don't agree in un- or homeschooling in their entirety but must admit we could all learn some excellent lessons from them.
     
     Stay Strong and don't give in.

     posted by : Shasta on 10/18/2008 at 7:01 PM Flag For Abuse

223. Wow. A whole lot of arrogant, nasty, judgmental people calling someone else arrogant and misguided. Good for you. ::sarcasm:: Hope it made you feel better, because to me most of your posts felt as though you were overcompensating for something lacking in your own lives.
     
     I am not a homeschooler or an unschooler. I just don't have the temperament for it. My older son (he is 4.5yo) will be entering kindergarten next fall, though, and in many ways I wish I were wired for that sort of education. He is very bright and very, very sensitive, and I think he would benefit from extra, focused time with me. But I know my limitations as a teacher and a parent and a human being, and for all of us, I think it's best he spend a few hours a day with someone else.
     
     That said, I resent the emphasis on book learning in kindergarten. For me, lo these many years ago, kindergarten was about play and exploration. Not reading readiness. Not actual reading. My son is in an optional, 3-half-days per week pre-K this year, and there is SO much emphasis on reading and writing that it makes me sad. I have him in the program so that he can meet some friends and play and socialize. He learns plenty about reading and writing and math through play at home. . . are drills and exercises so necessary for 4yos?
     
     As for the column, I got none of the negative things out of it so many of you seem to see. I thought she was trying this out for a year or so, with a sense of humor, because she has some questions about public school (as do I) and she doesn't see the need for such structure at such a young age. She even expressed uncertainty about what comes next. What's so upsetting about that?!
     
     No, my kids don't stay up late, but I have a lot of friends with bedtime rituals (from the whole family going to bed together, at 8:15pm, to late nights for mom and kids) that would NEVER work for me, but seem to work for them. So what? As to bars, well, my husband and I are foodies, and my kids have been traveling and going to restaurants with us since they were babies. Does it mean we're watching women in skimpy clothes pick up men? No, but there ARE plenty of pub-like bars and restaurants that are welcoming to children and allow parents and kids to be TOGETHER for socializing. Have none of you ever been to one? Too bad for you if you haven't, I guess. I don't see a THING wrong with it. We have lots of friends in Mexico, and our kids go home and to bed early, by their estimation.
     
     Finally, I think people are missing the fact that it can be amazingly challenging to be a SAHM. I am currently at home with a 2yo and a 4.5yo, pretty much full time. My husband travels extensively, and I do not have a nanny or other caregiver. I try (note, TRY) to supplement our not-so-awesome income with some writing on the side, but you try to do that with two rambunctious boys and many days with almost no *free* time? It's hard to keep your kids entertained, stay sane, and maintain something even remotely resembling adult speaking skills, much less teach them things sometimse. I often say this SAHM thing is the hardest (but most rewarding) job I've ever had, and I used to commute to an 80hr/week job with tons of travel and lots of hiring and firing and all of those stressful things.
     
     Parenting is hard. HARD. And no one way is perfect. So stop being a bunch of self-righteous asshats, and focus all that energy you have been expending on vitriol on your own parenting.

     posted by : Mollmonster on 10/18/2008 at 10:19 PM Flag For Abuse

224. I'm an unschooling mom, and I think it's great that this family has decided to explore their options. However, my impression from the article is that they are at the very start of their journey into the homeschooling world and haven't done much research yet into the different philosophies and approaches that exist out there. They're feeling the initial rush that comes of claiming your freedom from the oppressive institution of structured schooling. They should definitely take some time to bask in that feeling! But once they've come down from that a bit I'd urge them to definitely read John Holt! Know what you're talking about when you talk about unschooling! Please don't misrepresent us - unschooling is definitely not unparenting. Read all about it at unschoolgirls.blogspot.com and best wishes to all the conscientious, creative unschoolers out there who are giving their children so much more than school ever could!

     posted by : hollyrebekahgraff on 10/18/2008 at 11:58 PM Flag For Abuse

225. Very interesting article and I am fully d'accord. Mention this in Germany and you would get nasty, downright hostile remarks from lots of parents. Small wonder in a country that has a three-tiered school system where selection start at age 10 (class 4). When you learn as a kid you're the one for the pisser jobs, you somewhere in the middle and you over there, yes you, may go to university. So it's a given parents bend over backwards, hire tutors, press their kids just to make sure it gets accepted at a gymnasium (only here can you qualify for a university). Funny thing is that others do the same and only later parents realize they are in a circle of competition. Well, have fun.
     
     We have lived 15 years in Nepal. True, school system is a little rigid, but there is no mobbing, no bullying. Kids get along just fine. Unfortunately, homeschooling is not allowed in Germany, so I am planning to leave this country again.
     
     Taking kids to a restaurant is very common in Italy, when they are tired they sleep. So, where should there be any damage?

     posted by : Cho Oyu on 10/19/2008 at 2:42 AM Flag For Abuse

226. If you don't want to have your child go through the formal education system and teach them at home, that is fine. I don't personally believe that an unstructured environment is at all beneficial to a child's development. I think that no structure just teaches them that they don't have to do things they don't want...
     
     The primary issue I have with this article is the alarming amount of alcohol that appears to go hand in hand with the way the parents are raising their children. I don't know about the laws in New York, but I know that where I live, a bar that allows minors would be fined and shut down by the state excise police. Then she takes the child to play and sits drinking with the other parents. This means that for every drinking parent, when they leave they are solely responsible for their childs safety while at least partially intoxicated. How many of these parents drive to/from these play & chug events?

     posted by : ACO on 10/19/2008 at 12:03 PM Flag For Abuse

227. this is the problem with many new york parents...they THINK they are cool. but really, they are super uptight and they just wear the cool uniform (which they overpaid for). they pretend to be laid-back, but they are actually quite rigid. we live in brooklyn and i see it all the time. respect the kids and let them be happy.
     joanne, see u at the bar!

     posted by : BrooklynDad on 10/19/2008 at 9:21 PM Flag For Abuse

228. WOW, do all of you posters realize how jealous and insecure you sound?

     posted by : NYC lady on 10/20/2008 at 12:00 PM Flag For Abuse

229. All of them? All of them except you, of course.

     posted by : not NYC lady on 10/20/2008 at 4:06 PM Flag For Abuse

230. I have been a part of the unschooling (or as we call it, life learning, because we learn from life and for life) community for 9 years now, and see this article as a humorously written defense of a lifestyle that is often hard to live, for reasons that should be pretty apparent from the comments here. People who choose to unschool are challenging the notion that one has to learn to live a life of suffering and discontent in search of the almighty buck. We want better than that for our kids -- we want them to be able to follow their dreams and passions, to become experts in their chosen field, to be able to explore any and all topics that interest them, and to live the life they want to live, measuring success on their own terms. We're not trying to raise well-behaved sheeple, we're trying to raise independent thinkers who dance to the beat of their own drum -- and that is very threatening to many people.
     
     How does this lifestyle prepare them for "the real world?" My kids go to sleep when they're tired, and wake up when they're done sleeping. Sometimes we have to get up early for some reason or another, but they do so happily, because it isn't part of a daily grind that they would not choose for themselves. When they grow up and choose the work that they want to do, they'll be motivated to get up early either because of their joy for their work or for their paycheck -- hopefully both. Or maybe they'll choose a profession that doesn't require getting up early -- a basic tenet of unschooling is finding creative solutions that work for everyone involved.
     
     As far as all the crowd-management skills that kids in school learn, like standing in line, sitting quietly, waiting to speak, etc, they get those skills at the grocery store, at the library, in classes they choose to take (art/hockey/gymnastics/underwater basket weaving) but because they have chosen to be there, the rules are meaningful. The more oppressive skills like being subservient to a boss, and doing mindless work that they don't like...
     honestly I hope they never have to experience that, and the biggest reason we are raising our kids this way is so that they are more prepared to live the lives of their choosing, determining their own path. Perhaps they'll want to be circus performers, or doctors, or plumbers, or architects, or rocket scientists, or filmmakers...the options are endless for kids who have grown up learning how to learn, and being trusted to follow their hearts and minds to whatever path is best for them. It's an amazing thing to see unfold in the trusted child!!
     
     As far as socialization goes, unschooled kids are out in the world, interacting with people of all ages in all settings, learning the skills necessary for living comfortably each and every day. Their curiosity is piqued several times a day as we move through the world, and we make efforts to follow up on those intellectual inquiries at the library or on the internet, or by talking directly to the experts. People ask "how will they learn calculus?" and right after I ask them "well, how are YOUR calculus skills?" I tell them that a kid who is trusted to learn what they need to learn when they need to learn it will easily learn calculus if they need to learn it to go to university or for a particular career path. Kids learn to walk and talk because it is necessary in this world, and we trust that everything else in the world will follow suit. My kids ask me to give them math and spelling tests because they see a need to know how to spell and do mathematics, and they are motivated to learn these things that are essential to living in our world.
     
     On the topic of "cool" -- most unschoolers actually reject the usual notion of cool, which is why many unschooled/homeschooled children are seen as "odd" by their peers. They don't conform to the tween standard, they have their own (often unusual) interests, and yes, they are usually brought up to assume that they have as much right to speak and be heard as the rest of society. Learning social graces takes time when they aren't bullied into you, and I'd rather have my kids annoy an irritable grown-up than be shamed into a silence that can last a lifetime.
     
     Lastly, in the unschooling community I don't think you have to actually *read* John Holt to get the John Holt message and understand what his philosophy was. I've read all his books, but would be doing just fine without them, just from the abundance of conversation with other unschooling parents that we are blessed with in the life learning community. I don't think anyone comes to the unschooling lifestyle without being influenced by his work, whether directly or indirectly.
     
     Nobody is insinuating that unschooled or homeschooled kids are superior in any way to public or private schooled kids. People homeschool for as many different reasons as there are homeschooling families -- and let's not forget that some families are forced to choose homeschooling because their kids are suffering in a school setting -- those "troubled" homeschooled kids were often far more troubled in school than they are out of school. Just because they annoy you doesn't mean they aren't well on their way to being amazing adults with rich lives.
     
     and joanne, my kids and I would love to have a beer-playdate with you and Benny anytime! :)

     posted by : life learners on 10/20/2008 at 7:39 PM Flag For Abuse

231. I find it bizarre enough that our society even allows parents to subject 3 and 4 year old children to the rigors and stresses of a highly competitive 40 hour work week. It's absolutely mind-boggling that anyone would consider it negligent to not do so.
     Herd mentality at its worst.

     posted by : Actually raising my own children on 10/21/2008 at 11:52 AM Flag For Abuse

232. Are we not discussing a not- yet- five- year- old child? Do the cynics here honestly believe that all five year old children need to spend at least four, usually 7, hours per day, five days a week, under artificial lights being drilled about the alphabet and number tables to have a happy, healthy, productive childhood?
     That's how my child spends her days simply because it is easiest for me to send her off at this time. But each time I pick her up and see her looking like a wilted flower, and find her lunch only half eaten because "she doesn't have enough time to eat before the bell rings" I have to wonder.....

     posted by : numbmum on 10/21/2008 at 2:52 PM Flag For Abuse

233. I wish all the people casting scorn and derision would actually take an objective look at what happens to kids in today's schools:
     1) They lose an interest in learning as they get older. Once they're in upper elem. and MS, the vast majority simply don't like school. As a teacher who observes what happens in these institutions (a polite form of incarceration), I don't blame them. If your kid is in a "regular" school ask them if they want to take tomorrow off and instead, do something with Mom. See what they say.
     2)They're stressed out unnecessarily. They are told to chase points and are taught to step on each other's heads so that they can get to the top of the class. This competitive attitude does not improve learning nor is it conducive to well-being.
     3) Kids are rewarded for providing "right answers" and for being compliant. They are rarely given opportunities to practice deep thinking or to follow their own interests.
     4) Schools are no addressing the issues that will impact students' lives. Does your school have an environmental curriculum? Does the school connect them to their planet and those on it, or does it disconnect them through the use of dull textbooks, worksheets, and uninspired, outdated, dysfunctional material?
     
     Kudos to the author and kudos to all who are trying to make schools better places for people.
     
     Bill Farren ed4wb.org

     posted by : ed4wb on 10/21/2008 at 10:00 PM Flag For Abuse

234. as a conservative Christian (no Bible thumping though) I think that this is the BEST article ever written on the subject of un-schooling. We choose to teach our children taking note of their interests and gifts. I totally understand what you are saying and your day looks much like mine. We do some seat work just because me daughter loves too ( silly child) and we have her in a co-op class on Monday mornings..We will take things year to year on methods but know I will always be a "mom in the world" with my kiddos-
     I just wanted to thank you for such an encouraging post!
     
     Donna
     
     FYI I attend http://www.rockharbor.org

     posted by : Donna on 10/22/2008 at 4:03 PM Flag For Abuse

235. The article brought back a lot of memories of my child-raising days. Because I chose to stay home when our four kids were little, there wasn't a lot of money for those extra lessons and programs. I liked that our schedule could be fairly loose, and I think it was good for them, too. My kids had many many back-yard mud pie sessions. We baked, we played outside a lot, and they amused themselves a lot, too. That's what toys and books and big boxes are for. I did not feel compelled to play with them 24/7 so that every moment would be "enriched." I'm a little appalled at the micromanaging of so many parents these days. Some of these kids don't know how to run their own lives--they've never been given a chance to. If they somehow do manage to make a mistake, mommy and daddy are right there to rescue. And what do they learn from that? I suspect some of the holier-than-thou posters have exactly that kind of relationship with their kids. It will be interesting to see how all these kids turn out in 20 years. I think Benny will be just fine.

     posted by : kmac on 10/22/2008 at 6:52 PM Flag For Abuse

236. what this woman is doing to her child is nothing short of abuse and should definitely be reported to authorities. this is all about her, she is meeting none of her child's needs. He needs structure to feel safe, regualar bedtimes, not partying with mom and dad. IN general I am opposed to all homeschooling unless a parent has a elementary teaching degree. What in the world makes a parent think they can teach better than a person with actual training? I know, there are some bad teachers..... no kidding! There are also bad doctors, bad lawyers, bad dentists, bad haircutters, bad plumbers, bad architects... the list goes on and on, does this mean we do it ourselves? No, of course not, find someone good at what they do to meet our needs, This woman may be looking to get a reaction which she did, but she is obviously a friggin idiot,

     posted by : summitgal on 10/22/2008 at 11:02 PM Flag For Abuse

237. I cannot believe the sheep commenting here on this supposed progressive site. First of all, this kid is FIVE YEARS OLD. FIVE. I'm only in my 30's and plenty of kids in my era didn't even go to kindergarten.
     Next, I challenge everyone yammering about calling the "authorities" to do some volunteer work or perhaps become a foster parent, so you at least know what the hell you're talking about. In fact, please *do* call the "authorities" to report this author - you have her name. You will be laughed at, and then they will go back to dealing with their regular case load of drug addiction, rape, and starvation, just to name a bit of it. I trust they will not have time to investigate allegations of "staying up late" and "going to museums" instead of school. That's the stupidest sh!t I've heard all day.
     See, in this country, we have something called freedom. That means freedom to educate our children as we see fit and as we are able. May not be perfect, may not be what everyone else would do for their kids, but it's freedom and I will stake my life on it.
     When my time comes, I hope I do what's best for my individual child and family, regardless of what the indoctrinated masses think.

     posted by : CDG on 10/24/2008 at 2:19 AM Flag For Abuse

238. I was very excited to read the article in the Times last week, and that lead me here.
     
     As a second grader in rural Massachusetts I was unhappy in the public school. My mother, who was always seeking alternative ways of life as an avid hippie, read the writings of John Holt. She took me out of school, and from third grade until college I was homeschooled. I was active with Growing Without Schooling, John Holt's magazine, after his death. I studied writing with Susannah Sheffer, the editor of the magazine, and wrote for it as well. I was part of the large community of homeschoolers who were paving the way for what is now a nationally accepted way of educating.
     
     Over the years we followed a Waldorf curriculum, a Montessori curriculum, our own curriculum, but much of what we did was unschooling. I passed standardized testing in the top percentiles ever year. In order to integrate me socially my mother enrolled me in local theater groups and dance classes, and I fell in love with the theater. Homeschooling allowed me to pursue that dream. At the age of 14 I convinced a local community college to let me take classes, and at the age of 17 I was admitted to the ART Institute for Advanced Theater Training at Harvard University. I am now a professional actress.
     
     This is just a summary to say I turned out well, as every homeschooled friend of mine has.
     
     As my partner and I try to start a family, I have been asked a lot if I would homeschool myself, and these articles certainly make me feel inspired.
     
     Lastly, my mother died of cancer at 62 just about a year ago. I am an only child, and she was my best friend. The loss is beyond words for me. The only thing that makes it sting a little less is that we had hours upon hours together that many mothers and daughters miss out on. I feel so lucky to have been the daughter of such a woman, and hope to be a mother that would have made her proud.

     posted by : emmasunny on 10/24/2008 at 5:20 PM Flag For Abuse

239. I’d like to take a moment to address the economic disparity issue.
     
     We unschool *and* we hover around the poverty level. We are at that level because we made the decision to provide a stay at home parent for our children- in our case a stay at home father.
     We live in a tiny house we can afford on one salary. Our car is safe, but it’s older and paid for. We don’t have many expensive things, but we eat amazingly well and do lots of fun things by being creative.
     
     We made a decision to live this way because we felt strongly about unschooling our children. I don’t think it’s as much about privilege as it is about working out the issues that prevent you from living the way you want to live.
     
     I know there are many unschoolers who are not economically privileged. We hang out with a large group of them. One of them is even a single mom!

     posted by : Neomax on 10/26/2008 at 3:56 AM Flag For Abuse

240. I'm floored by the negative reaction here. I hadn't thought very much about what kind of school my 2-year-old will attend (because I'm in the military, move a lot, and can't forcast future geography and school options), but unschooling sounds pretty great to me. I think I'll leave it up to the kid. If he wants to go to school, fine. If not, that's cool too. I want him to be able to follow whatever course of education interests him. I got straight As in school and finished a masters degree. But I do not have great memories of formal education -- a very boring experience, most of the time. Most of what I learned that is important to me now was stuff I chose to explore on my own.

     posted by : open minded mom on 11/8/2008 at 11:49 PM Flag For Abuse

241. Honestly, my first thought was that probably never bothered to get that soil they let their kids play in Brooklyn tested for lead. I know a lot of people who've poisoned their kids that way.
     
     My second is that, of course, she's absurd. And she's trying even harder to be more so. I think schools are as important to communities as churches, and raising your kids in a bubble outside either one is a stupid conceit.
     
     Not to mention, for all her laziness, more work.

     posted by : Maujer2 on 11/17/2008 at 8:03 PM Flag For Abuse

242. The kid's FIVE. By New York law, he does not have to start school yet, even if he is technically old enough to go to kindergarten. CPS ain't gonna intervene because his parents let him stay up past his bedtime and play in the mud in his underwear.
     
     As for kids in bars: I guess in England that's normal, and pubs really are "public houses" and are gathering spots for the community, young and old. But most places in the U.S., it's not normal to take children into businesses whose primary business is selling alcohol. I don't think your kid is going to be scarred by this and I think a lot of people in the U.S. are puritanical, but I still wouldn't do it. When I go out to a bar, a big part of the appeal is that there are no children there. I would not bring my kid to a bar out of respect for the other patrons.
     
     If you want to meet up with your friends and have a drink or two and have your kid along, what's wrong with a restaurant that also serves beer and wine?

     posted by : yeahuhhuh on 11/20/2008 at 6:02 PM Flag For Abuse

243. My son Kayden was out late last night at Hank's Honky-Tonk south of town. It's now 10:30 a.m. and he's spread-eagled across his bed, one long chicken leg dangling off the mattress. His dirty bangs hang over his closed eyes. His mouth flutters open and shut as he breathes deep, sleepy breaths. As usual, his socks are on, brownish-gray with holes in the heels.
     
     He’s just your average teenage boy, except for two things: he's just shy of 5 years old, and today he starts un-kindergarten.
     
     It's the new school year, and while Kayden's been sleeping this morning, most of his babyhood friends have already eaten breakfast, donned their backpacks and shoes shiny new from Wal-Mart, and bravely boarded that big yellow bus for their very first day of kindergarten.
     
     Kayden knows the word "kindergarten." He's read about kids going there in his books, many of which he insists on reading on his own these days. But he still hasn't asked if he'll be going to kindergarten. My boyfriend, Jake, and I haven't really mentioned that he won't be.
     
     Kayden's never heard of un-kindergarten, though. That's because I made it up last night.
     
     We were out drinking with friends. Kayden was with us, as usual. We'd hit that slow time around 9:00, between the folks coming off shift at the mill and the late-night youngsters, when good old Hank doesn't seem to mind 5-year-olds playing with Tonka tractors and slurping Coke near the bar.
     
     Our friends don't have any kids, at least none they've got custody of, but they were curious about why we're not sending Kayden to school. Some of them still think homeschooling's just a bunch of holier-than-thou fundamentalists who teach their kids at home in order to spare them learning about dinosaurs and condoms and such at public school. As we tried to tell them, parents homeschool their kids in different ways and for different reasons.
     
     Still, when I used the word "unschooling," they wanted to know WTF.
     
     "There's no short and simple way to describe it," I said, "just like there's no short, simple way to describe school. But generally, unschoolers don't send their kids to regular school and don't teach by any set curriculum. You won't catch them at the kitchen table every morning doing math, then reading, then geography."
     
     I went on to explain how unschoolers believe in letting a kid's natural curiosity, interests, and wanting to know more drive their learning.
     
     "So y'all are unschoolers, then?" our friend Sherri asked.
     
     Jake and I exchanged looks, then waggled our heads vaguely yes-no.
     
     As homeschoolers go we're probably a lot closer to unschoolers--at least for the time being. We've got no lesson plans made up for the coming year. We haven't ordered any curriculums. The way we taught Kayden to read was pretty natural and straightforward. (He liked signs a lot, so we started with words and phrases like "Stop," "Free Kittins," and "Theres no beer in Hell," and just went from there.)
     
     Neither of us has ever actually read any of those scholarly-type books on how schools are failing our children and unschooling's the way to go. And we don't think it's the best way for every kid out there, either.
     
     What's more, to call ourselves "unschoolers" just seems so final and defining. I'm really not sure if in 2, or 5, or 10 years' time, the unschooling approach to Kayden's education will still work for us.
     
     That's when I came up with my new word.
     
     "He's going to un-kindergarten this year, that's for sure!" I joked to our friends last night, before ordering everyone another Bud and Kayden another Coke.
     
     Our first un-kindergarten day, Kayden got up at noon, a little later than his usual 11:00 a.m. start. I folded the laundry and watched my morning talk shows while he slept, like I always do ever since the old Dollar Galaxy closed and I couldn't get hired at Wal-Mart. Jake, who works for Bob Jankins at Jankins Heating & Air, headed out on his first job of the day.
     
     After he got up, Kayden spent an hour playing some kind of complicated game with about five toy trucks, a couple Transformers and some old jumper cables. Those I had to take away from him to start my '99 Kia off Suzanne's truck next door. Then we headed into town down Bearwallow Mountain Road, stopping at Samir's Exxon on the way for gas and BBQ pork rinds. Kayden delighted in helping me count a five, 3 ones, and 7 quarters out of my change purse to pay for our 3 gallons.
     
     Now, in the warm afternoon sun, Kayden's playing with two other kids in a strip of mud in the common area of our mobile-home development. His friends are both naked as jaybirds. Kayden has on his Lion King underpants and a pair of socks. Almost every inch of childish skin, cotton, and hair is covered with wet, sticky dirt. The kids are totally absorbed in what they're doing, which is burying a bobble-eyed baby doll in the dirt. At the moment the poor thing's torso and legs and totally interred. Her head's exposed, but one eyelid is glued shut with mud. A fat nightcrawler wriggles a couple of inches from her dented plastic scalp.
     
     The whole scene could be straight out of some twisted horror movie about child serial killers. But no, this is just an average day at the brand-new Cherry Creek Estates Unschoolers Association, of which we're founding members.
     
     While Kayden and his accomplices bury their latest victim, other kids in the common area are just as busy. One's screwing around with the brake system on a banged-up bike he found in the dumpster. Another is feeding a carrot to a kind of worried-looking pet goat tied to a dog kennel. Two little girls are dancing, fully dressed, in someone's sprinkler.
     
     We moms and one out-of-work dad sit around a nearby picnic table, drinking ice-cold Bud. One gal's been laid up with her fibromyalgia, another just got switched from day shift to night, and we’re celebrating being back together again. We're a ragtag bunch--mill workers, collectors of workman's comp and unemployment, jugglers of 2 or 3 part-time fast-food and retail jobs, a nurse's aid, an aspiring romance writer, and the lucky wife of a busy plumber. Our kids' ages range from 1 to 6.
     
     As the baby doll takes her last one-eyed glimpse of daylight and the goat retreats inside his kennel, our conversation turns to "the whole school thing." It's the first day of school for the rest of the county.
     
     Some of the group are die-hard unschoolers. They believe the school system poisons kids' minds and that there's nothing worse for toughening up and learning to think for yourself than some nit-picky state college graduate standing at a blackboard, telling you what to think. The square red brick school buildings, according to them, are "f***ing robot factories" and the only way to teach kids how to get along in the world is to toss them right out in it.
     
     Others of us are on the fence. One mom decided not to send her kids to Head Start this year like the social worker wanted, but is still up in the air about kindergarten next year. Another mom has three boys in first through fourth grade at the local elementary school, but couldn't bear to send her baby girl to preschool, and hopes someday to homeschool all four.
     
     A few of us like the idea of some kind of curriculum, or at least adding more regular-type activities like story time or science experiments to our weekly meetings. One member of the group actually ordered a couple of different homeschool curriculums off the Internet, and tried to join the big county homeschool association, but got turned down because she's not married to any of her kids' dads and doesn't go to enough church.
     
     As we talk, I realize Kayden isn't at "real" kindergarten today because that's what suits my family at the moment. I'm not against school. Not by any means. After all, Jake and I both did pretty okay with a regular public education. With two high-school diplomas and almost 20 community college courses between us, our love of learning obviously wasn't crushed.
     
     But un-kindergarten for us means Kayden can sleep late, so I can too and watch my shows. It means we don't have to worry about bedtimes and can go out and have fun with our friends any night of the week. We can drive to Georgia and visit my folks as soon as gas gets a little cheaper. Un-kindergarten also means we can pick and choose how we spend our days and who we spend them with. Kayden can go to free crafts time at the public library during the week when there's not a million other kids hogging all the glitter. He can read a book about sharks when he feels like it. He can play with jumper cables while eating his Cocoa Puffs at noon.
     
     By the end of the afternoon, the baby doll is good and sealed in her dirt grave, and the kids have been hosed down with cold water. Their shrieks are heard all the way to the road. Now Kayden and I'll head inside our own trailer, where I'll teach him how to read the directions on a box of Kraft Easy Mac ("Pour into microwave safe bowl," "Heat 3 minutes on high.")
     
     Tonight we'll meet Jake for dinner at Arby's, then drive out to Taylorsville where they've got a movie theater. Kayden's not into kiddie crap like Finding Nemo or Monsters, Inc. He’s way too cool for that. Knocked Up was Kayden's favorite movie last year. Whenever he sees a pregnant lady in Wal-Mart or Food Lion, he likes to giggle, "Won't say it...but rhymes with smashmortion."
     
     After the movie, we'll drive home, read a book, and all fall asleep around midnight. Our first day of un-kindergarten will be done, and we'll sleep well knowing Kayden is learning, growing, and enjoying his mud-splattered 5-year-old life, without any workbooks, fingerpaints, or school bells.

     posted by : Gemma Kaye Brown on 11/24/2008 at 6:53 PM Flag For Abuse

244. Wow, this sounds like a disaster! What a chaotic lifestyle for the poor child.

     posted by : happymom on 11/25/2008 at 9:19 PM Flag For Abuse

245. Nice one, Gemma! And extremely apt.

     posted by : Maujer on 12/3/2008 at 1:50 PM Flag For Abuse

246. I was initially freaked out until I stopped and really started to think about it. This article was probably written to get a reaction. I do believe there are some people who probably put their social lives before their children's life, but I don't think it is a thought out intended education or parenting style. I think this is pure fiction. You have all been Punk'd! I hope.

     posted by : a former concerned parent on 12/5/2008 at 10:38 AM Flag For Abuse

247. I'm amazed how many people still harbor the delusion that formal education does anything at all besides train young people to follow orders.
     
     I was "unschooled". I received no formal education except for flirting with textbooks here and there. Mostly I read books (from Jane Eyre to the Baby-Sitters Club), fell into hobbies (dance, theatre, piano), and took part-time jobs. My mom took me to her protests and her volunteer work at a local bookshop, and my dad, a college professor, took me to scholarly conferences as young as ten or eleven. I was raised to be curious, ask questions, and never take anything at face value.
     
     When I turned 17, I designed my own transcript and personal statement based on my self-guided experiences, and was accepted into one of the top universities in the US. I'll graduate in December six months ahead of the rest of "my class" had I attended public school.
     
     I feel sorry for anyone that believes you need to hire other people to teach your kids. This article deliberately makes this mom come off as lazy and selfish - I don't believe that not conforming to a normal 9-5 schedule means you are a bad parent, or indulging your own career and social life means you are doing it at the expense of your child.

     posted by : unschooled child on 1/20/2009 at 12:05 AM Flag For Abuse

248. Although I regret the attitude of the author, I've got to say, I was unschooled all the way through school--till university--and so long as this parent doesn't actually leave the kid alone and bar-hop, and so long as he's got access to books, art supplies, and so on while she's writing, he'll probably be fine, for a while, anyway. I was a rare-ish kid in that I could handle completely unsupervised unschooling for my whole child and teen-hood, and still get into college, but no one's going to be hurt by a few early years of casual unschooling, and quite possibly he'll actually be better for it. School isn't a great place, in many cases, and for many children. And for the record, I'm now a degree-holding (employed) librarian, with excellent professional prospects--I turned out okay.

     posted by : unschooledlibrarian on 1/21/2009 at 12:59 PM Flag For Abuse

249. It is pretty disgusting to use your child to make a statement about how hip and quirky you are. Keeping your son from going to school so you can stay out late and get hammered with your peeps. Way to think outside the box.

     posted by : Vanmuma on 1/24/2009 at 3:31 AM Flag For Abuse

250. I don't see what the big deal is, mainly because the child in question is only 5. There are many people who don't send their kids to kindergarten until they're 6, especially if they have spring or summer birthdays.
     As for the whole bar issue, again, I don't see what the big deal is. Growing up, my parents took my brother and I to bars - because they served great food! We didn't belly up to the bar to have a beer, for goodness sake.
     People need to lighten up. I'm sure that this little boy will be just fine.

     posted by : Amanda B on 2/20/2009 at 1:53 PM Flag For Abuse

251. If I did this ACS would be at my door in a heartbeat. Not to mention that this woman lives in Manhattan, where some of the best schools in this state are. If this were an article written by a lower-class minority this woman's child would have been taken away immediately.
     
     Not to mention it's illegal to have your child at a bar in  NYC past 10 pm. I bartended to pay my way through college, and I loved nothing more than to kick out these infuriating hipsters and their kids at 10 o'clock.

     posted by : QueensBound on 3/9/2009 at 6:57 PM Flag For Abuse

252. Why does it matter when a 5-year old sleeps, so long as they get in the sleep they need?  I have friends who are filmmakers and others who work night shifts and their toddlers, too, have late night, late morning schedules, so that the family can spend more time together.  Perhaps their schedules will change later, but this works for them now.  If you have the option, I think young kids spending as much time with their parents as possible is a great gift that you can't get back. 
     

     posted by : Solid10Hours on 4/6/2009 at 12:57 PM Flag For Abuse

253. Do those of you who have brought it up REALLY think CPS needs to be called in to tear apart this family?  Take this child away from parents who love him and provide for him?  Let's not cavalierly toss the threat about and start a witch-hunt just because someone's parenting practices are different from ours. The mother may be lazy, selfish, but that is not abuse.  
     

     posted by : Scary on 4/6/2009 at 1:10 PM Flag For Abuse

254. All of the hip folks on the board here need to remember that we're talking about a FIVE year-old.  First off, whoever brought up that K is more like First Grade now needs to get a grip. There really is not much difference between the two. If the kid can read at 4 and count out the CHANGE at a vegetable stand, he's ahead of the average First grader. ;)Also, I LAUGH at the folks here that think it is "terrible or shocking" to take a 5y/o to a bar! Have you never been to France, UK, Spain...?  It is a pretty regular occurrence. Grow up. It's beer, not the devil incarnate.  I thought this site was supposed to be for "edgy" parents who think outside the box? HA!  You guys are really disappointing. 
     And to the "bartender" who is waving the "NYC laws" for bar attendance around?  You have no imagination. ;) Perhaps you should have been homeschooled. 
     The deal here is that the "haters" are jealous that their kids can't sleep late and have the luxury of succeeding in this world. Make no mistake, people, homeschoolers do WONDERFULLY at college.  You can delude yourself into thinking that kids need to jump through the bureaucratic hoops, but that's exactly what NYC schooled children will be good at!  Enjoy the circus. ;) While you are at it, you might want to read up on the "homeschooled" Founding Fathers;)  They certainly didn't go to the local school district. Cheers!( I 'd also like to point out that my 8 y/o, who is 3-5 grades ahead, depending on the subject, will NOT tutor your kid. ;) )

     posted by : Binismom on 6/14/2009 at 9:59 AM Flag For Abuse

255. Heavens! A 5yo isn't trapped inside a building all day, sitting at a desk, listening to a paid worker drone on and on, and doing busywork! Whatever shall we do?!
     
     How awful that his parents take him with them when they go out, rather than leave him with a sitter. How terrible that the child watches movies about real things instead of artificial, cartoony images.
     
     And how disgusting that a bunch of sanctimonious morons on a message board are so quick to involve CPS in the discussion. "Scary" mentioned the Founding Fathers.....yep, many of them learned in freedom (just like the author's children, and my own). And all of them would be horrified and repulsed by the level of government intrusion into our lives that you people embrace.
     
     I hope none of you live in MY neighborhood! What a bunch of freakin' sheep!

     posted by : skwerl on 7/21/2009 at 10:58 AM Flag For Abuse

256. Ack, this piece is a year old, and still getting the comments. 
     
     Many moons ago, I was a teenage, community-college mom.  Wonder if people would've said I was hip and unconventional if I took my five-year-olds along to the bar when I was 22, as this more "mature" and "educated" mom does?  I don't know, I never dared to try something like that.  Hmmm...and what if a teenage mom said she couldn't be bothered to get her kid up for kindergarten (assuming this teenage mom was working from home or had a sitter in the home) and said "Oh, it's okay, my kid counts the quarters at the store and plays in the mud.  I bet he'll be smarter than his half his first grade class anyway!"  And if it was your waitress who boasted that her 5-year-old's favorite movie was PG-13?
     
     Yeah, this is the stuff that really turns my stomach.
     
     

     posted by : myanna on 8/1/2009 at 1:14 AM Flag For Abuse

257. I have always ( ever since I myself was a teen mom way back in the 70's) said that ever child is home schooled - it's just that many of us by choice or necessity have to add regular school in order to continue to make a living. I do hope that Benny gets a good grounding in the love of learning, not just adaptation to his parents' lifestyle, but most kids do learn how to get along in the world at large. My own have made lives for themselves, some that included university, some not, but all of them have continued to learn and that is the true measure of good upbringing in my book ( yet unpublished... ha ha). I watch my children raising their own children and see a lot that I recognize from their childhoods. So it would seem many of the things we unwittingly do while raising children ( reading, counting change at the grocery store, commenting on plays/tv/movies, reminding kids about responsibility, the environment, politeness and grammar) rub off and continue through the generations. I would also hope that everyone who reads the article takes from it the main point that each of us is the primary teacher (for good or bad) of each of our children. We can be more mindful of all we do if we just take a moment to think. Appreciate our great position and power in being entrusted with another human life and spirit to nurture toward a good, productive and happy adulthood. Blessed Be.
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     posted by : greymoon on 8/4/2009 at 12:25 PM Flag For Abuse

258.  A quick word of encouragement. Your son is lucky to have you. I write as I visit over coffee with another unschooling parent. Between the two of us we have 4 unschooled teens ranging in age from 15-19. The 19 is currently working on his MA. in electrical engineering. The 16 year old runs his own European transmission repair business. The 15 year olds are still exploring the world around them...this year they have spent a lot of time exploring architecture, cooking, parkour, art and volunteer at the local Boys and Girls Club as after-school tutors.  All 4 of these boys are regularly involved in family support for refugees from Darfur. They are surrounded by other unschooled peers (who..spent years playing in mud..and yes,  they learned fractions by making margaritas) who include a 17 year old concert pianist, a 16 year old college freshman doing research at a lab on a cure for cancer, their are three 15 year old airplane pilots...and many more who are fully engaged in life.
      We wish you the best.
     

     posted by : grilledcheesechic on 9/22/2009 at 9:57 AM Flag For Abuse

259. whoa. the out-of-control vitriol here makes me want to take a couple of five year olds down to the bar.sounds like he's gonna be a pretty nifty kid.

     posted by : milly on 9/27/2009 at 11:47 PM Flag For Abuse

260. Kudos to Ms. Rendell for recognizing that traditional schooling is free day care for parents.
     
     I'm sure that Ms. Rendell can teach her son colors, ABC's, counting, how to write his name, how to stand in line, that he should be polite, etc. more effectively and efficiently than a certified "teacher."
     
     Posters are taking her to task for taking her son to bars.  I don't get the impression that she is staying out all night with her 5 year old.  Go to Europe.  Europeans often take their kids to bars, and it's no big deal.  This erases the "mystique" and kids see how to drink responsibly.  One result:  less alcohol-fueled crime.  Maybe America should try it.  It has to be better than the status quo.
     

     posted by : karenelizabeth on 9/28/2009 at 2:55 PM Flag For Abuse

261. Absolutely unbelievable the severe judgment this woman faces from this supposedly broad-minded readership. Get OVER yourselves!
     
     I have schooled my kids in three different environments: Homeschooling, public school, private school (for one short year--and never again--at least in this private school).
     
     Homeschooling was done for a mixture of reasons. Some were social/moral decisions, and some were personal/lifestyle reasons (that's right-- I wanted to be able to take month long trips with my kids at any time of the damned year I wanted to. I wanted to sleep in after taking them to a late night function).
     
     I've homeschooled probably half the years my kids have been in school, and our school day has always been very unstructured (aside from math, which I used a curriculum for because I'm, well, awful at it).
     
     A couple of years ago, after homeschooling my son for three years he had to take a test to determine where he was academically upon entering high school. He tested at 4th year college in every subject and had the intellect of your average 32-yr-old. In ninth grade. So anybody who wants to tell me how much I damaged my son by homeschooling him in an unstructured way can BITE me.
     
     But there always comes the cries of, "But homeschooled kids aren't socialized!" Well, he's now in public school and as a junior he's a star athlete and one of the more popular kids, as is his younger brother who is also an honor student and star athlete. Both boys have been homescholed by me on and off since they started school.
     
     And my daughter, now in seventh grade, has also been homeschooled for many of her school years. She's now attending public school. I got a call from her teacher this morning who just had to call to let me know what a delightful daughter I have. She commented on what a great sense of humor she has and told me she's getting a B in English.
     
     Did anybody bother to note that the young boy featured in this article has learned to read just fine, and is counting change. He is able to play in a social setting with other children. But...OMG--he slept until NOON! He watched mommy drink a beer! TRAUMA I tell you, TRAUMA!
     
     Meanwhile, 27 children have been killed in Chicago's public school this year alone. Why don't you direct your rage where rage is deserved for God's sake!
     

     posted by : Karma on 9/29/2009 at 12:43 PM Flag For Abuse

262. This is really simple: we have a whole bunch of people who are using the State for free daycare so they don't have to watch their kids. They know it's nnot so good, but if they admitted it, they'd have to change. So what they do instead is PROJECT.
     

     posted by : Nick Danger on 9/29/2009 at 2:59 PM Flag For Abuse

263. @ mrb: Regarding your quote - "Your kid is gonna be one of the "weird" kids who doesn't go to school and thus doesn't:
     Learn how to interact as a member of a large group where he is not necessarily the center of attention.
     Learn what it feels like to develop a crush on a classmate.
     Get exposure to different kids from different backgrounds and life styles.
     Experience the joys and miseries of that little thing called SOCIALIZATION."
     
     This attitude toward homeschoolers in general is a huge pet peeve of mine.  I have unschooled/homeschooled my kids for the last 9 years, and through all that time my kids have experienced the joys and misereis of a very diverse and very busy social life.  Weekly groups, meetings, park days, movies, game nights, hanging out with friends and other families with kids of mulitiple age levels, karate classes, co-op classes, field trips, music lessons, visiting grandparents every week, you name it, we do it.  I don't want to hear any more crap about socialization.
     
     @ Our Miss Brooks: Regarding your quote - "Let's see how these terrific people do once they leave the world where they can pick what they do. Hey, non liberal arts colleges are perfect for homeschoolers--they can thrive by focusing on exactly what they choose to do. Can they cope in circumstances they don't control? We'll see, I guess."
     
     Can public school people cope in circumstances they do control, or are they too used to being controlled?   Start your own business?  Or get a job and follow the herd like they teach in school?  Sure, public schooled people can do both, and so can unschooled/homeschooled people.  We need to overcome this mentality of "If they don't do/learn it now, they'll never do/learn it later."  We as adults should know this!  How many of you have learned a new skill or habit that you never thought you could - because you finally chose to do so?   There is a book titled "The Unprocessed Child" about the true story a young woman who was unschooled her whole life.  She scored in the top 10% of the state of Louisiana on her college entrance exam. She enrolled in college when she was eighteen, and graduated summa cum laude three and a half years later.  She CHOSE to do it, as anyone can do -  homeschooled, unschooled, or public schooled.
     It can be done.
     
     As unschoolers ourselves, I've often worried about whether what I was doing was right, because there were times when my kids didn't seem so "interest driven," but I hung in there.  Now at the age of 15, my son has chosen to take classes 2 days a week at a homeschool resource center (free, and servicing over 100 families), getting high school credit for those classes, as well as high school credit for activities he does on his own (music lessons), and qualifying for 2 years of paid college courses starting his "senior" year.  My 11 yo daughter also goes for the 2 days, taking Musical Theatre, American Sign Language, and Girls Choir.  Are we still unschooling?  Sure, the kids are doing what they want.   And you know what?  On Wednesday and Friday they're up at 6:30 a.m. but every other day depends on what we have going on.  And yes, they sometimes sleep in on a weekday.
     
     Anyway, in getting back to the original story.   While I don't agree with taking the kid into bars while the adults drink, or drink beer while the kids are playing for that matter, the kid is 5 - sleeping in won't kill him, and the mother never said she was going to do that for the rest of his life.  Circumstances will arise one day where they will need to get to the museum by 8:00 a.m., and if they want it badly enough they'll make it happen.

     posted by : wizmom on 9/29/2009 at 5:08 PM Flag For Abuse

264. As a 28 year old Father, Professional and College graduate who was home-schooled k-12, I applaud your work! Don't listen to these naysayers.
     
     Being home-schooled, I believe, Has made me one of the most well rounded people I know.
     The best thing a parent can do, is spend time with his/her children.
     

     posted by : MTaylor on 10/1/2009 at 10:26 AM Flag For Abuse

265. Sounds to me like Benny is a lot better off than kids in conventional school.  I know my kids have thrived through homeschool.  I did unschooling a little when they were younger; now I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum, using classical curriculum.  Recently, they tested well above grade level.  My daughter, in 4th grade, is reading and comprehending at almost 10th grade level.
     I do feel the following quote is unkind:
     "homeschooling is no longer (and probably never was) just a bunch of Bible-thumping Seventh Day Adventists who teach their kids at home in order to avoid the heathens at public school."
     It was courageous Christians who gave us the option of homeschooling.  Some of them even went to jail to defend their, and our, right to teach our children.  It is unfair to characterize our benefactors as just these religious nuts, when in fact they paved the way to such a wonderful opportunity for our children.
     

     posted by : Lisa in California on 10/10/2009 at 12:31 PM Flag For Abuse

266. Sorry, I'm confused by many of the posts here. I'll lay out my questions, and maybe some tentative opinions too, and maybe you'll all be kind enough to help me understand.
     
     1) What is wrong with taking a child to a bar? It's interesting for them, and they like listening to conversation (it's been suggested that the more a child is exposed to quality communication, the 'brighter' they will turn out). I'd assume that most adults are able to censor themselves enough not to scar the kid, and I'd bet most of it goes over his head anyway. I've gone to bars sporadically throughout my childhood, and I'm not socially maladjusted in any way.
     
     2) If he's getting a full night's sleep, what's wrong with going to bed late? He doesn't need to be up early in the morning, and I've yet to see any evidence that kids, especially young children, need a particular bedtime to develop normally.
     
     3) If you read the whole article, you'll see that he plays with other children regularly, so what are these comments about socialization all about? Also, I don't get what's wrong with someone being exposed to a wide range of ages on a friendly basis. Surely that's what we expect in adults; why not allow a child to experience a wide peer group before his majority?
     
     4) I don't get how this is selfish - it's not a permanent decision on the mother's part, and she's clearly spending a lot of time/energy on his education if they go out to museums and local homeschool groups. If she was selfish (and, as many commenters have noted, well-off), she could just give him a live-in nanny to do the parenting and get him off to school each day, and continue living the life she always has.
     
     I am home educated (that's what we call homeschooling in Europe), and I've got a job, good qualifications, friends of all ages, and a boyfriend, at 16 years old. Personally, I didn't have quite the style of education shown here, but I was pretty much self-taught, and I know kids who's lifestyle is even more 'alternative' than this. They're all doing fine educationally, have friends, and in many cases are considered 'model citizens' by the adults who feel like judging them.
     
     In particular, I have a friend who went to Oxford after spending his entire childhood playing on the trampoline. Maybe you'd have considered it neglect, but it's produced a guy worth knowing.
     
     Anyway, I hope some of you will be able to answer my questions, and as a last point, I'd like to point you to some statistics about homeschooling in the US - http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hslda.org%2Fdocs%2Fstudy%2Fray2009%2F2009_Ray_StudyFINAL.pdf&ei=X3rhSrT2MaDSjAf4trXIAQ&usg=AFQjCNEKbm2g9rXKhYGTTeurNaiuU5GmDQ&sig2=REwORbgpLK4lu2FGJpWL5w
     

     posted by : CloverGrl on 10/23/2009 at 5:53 AM Flag For Abuse

267. Just one question: Why did you have a child in the first place???? This article has nothing to do with home-schooling or "un-schooling" or whatever you want to call it; it has more to do with self-indulgence and selfish parenting. You describe the cutesy situations of an afternoon playdate (while you drink beer and catch up with the other grown ups) and include details like the earthworm nearby and the brake system on the bike as if those details are making up for the fact that you are too lazy and too full of your own schedule to make plans for your child's education. the key is in the PLANNING, and "un-schooling" seems to lack a plan! a bit irresponsible if you ask me. I hope you figure this out before you create another selfish little being.
     

     posted by : schooler on 10/31/2009 at 8:10 PM Flag For Abuse