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As someone who grew up with an unusual name (I'm now 35) I say to all you parents that want to name your babies something really unusual, DON'T DO IT! It sucks so bad for your kids. My name isn't even weird, it's kinda pretty. But it still sucks. It doesn't make me unique, it doesn't make me stand out in a crowd, and it didn't make me any more successful than anyone else. I get compliments, but it is a complete drag explaining it, spelling it, and repeating it over and over every damn day of my life. I would never saddle my kids with a name that will be a burden for the rest of their lives. Have a heart! If you absolutely must do it then, for the love of your child, use it as a middle name. It's a nice compromise.
posted by : moi on 10/6/2008 at 10:34 AM Flag For Abuse
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I think everyone who wants a truly unusual or unique name should first talk to 2 people who grew up with one. Almost everyone I've met who had a very strange name hated it (like moi above). Our children are not extensions of ourself, and should not be where we express OUR originality or creativity, the focus should be raising a happy, healthy human.
posted by : EngMama on 10/6/2008 at 10:57 AM Flag For Abuse
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'Mordechai' is neither creative nor crackpot.
I know a few of those baseball-related names seem really strange to the average American. But I take issue with the author’s re-enforcement of ‘Kurt’’s veiw. It’s clear that this was a list of what seemed (to these baseball loving parents) like unusual names and they decided to go even further afield However, naming your child Mordechai is not like naming him Dizzy (also perfectly fine IMO). Mordechai may sound weird to some, but it is a perfectly TRADITIONAL Jewish name. It’s not even a nickname like Dizzy or Solly. The only problem is most people will not be able to pronounce it because the ‘ch’ represents a sound that doesn’t exist in English. Solly is probably a short form for Solomon - also a common Jewish/biblical name. The only thing this list represents is that the history of Baseball in America involved a lot of Jews. It’s no different than naming a kid Jose, Carmelo or Hector.
I’m rather annoyed that the writer allowed such an impression to get to the final copy of this article. I'd rather not to back to a time where children named Diego, Pryia, Michel or Barak have to change or alter their names to suit the narrow and ignorant perspectives of others.
The rest of this article is equally uninsightful or offensive.
Even a minor amount of reading up on the subject and on Wattenberg’s blog will quickly show that the names “Lemonjello and Orangejello” and “Shithead (pronounced Shuh-teed)” are urban legends. There are lots of weird names that show up in her discussion of American baby names, like 'Lemon', but the stories mentioned above are not true.
Wattenberg also takes issue with Levitt’s blunt reading of so-called “Black” names and comes up with a much more positive view of African Americans through her more accurate, interesting and subtle review of the African American naming culture.
It is absolute stupidity to think you can insulate your kid from bullying through his name. Kids are bullied and that is the problem that must be dealt with. It may be that little Lemon will bully Andrew or Olivia. While I wouldn’t necessarily want to make it hard for a child, I think there’s better reasons not to name your child Lemon - like a lifetime of having to introduce himself professionally as “Lemon”. But if you love ‘Lemon’ go for it. Most people end up loving their names and it is quite common for people with all kinds of names to hate their names at some point. Personally, I love Moon Unit and Pilot Inspektor. Weird, but also attractive in their own way.
I suggest everyone who reads this article read (or listen to) something by Laura Wattenberg. She does a much better job, her work is more interesting and she actually knows of what she speaks. It’s ridiculous to mention a writer when you can’t be bothered to actually read her work
http://www.babynamewizard.com/blog
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92621093
http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2007/09/the-baby-name-boom/
posted by : Jewey McJewJew on 10/6/2008 at 11:15 AM Flag For Abuse
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If you think your unique name is a pain and don't like it... why don't you change it? It's not that difficult, a friend with a weird name changed her's shortly after turning 21 and has had no difficulties from it.
Also, the parents who named their kid "Catcher"... really? They seriously don't know what that is slang for? He's going to be in a world of pain in JR High.
posted by : seriously on 10/6/2008 at 11:25 AM Flag For Abuse
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The On Point show referenced above was fascinating. Most of the people who called in defense of "creative" naming said that they wanted their children to also be creative, and that's why they gave them unusual names. It's kind of funny, this idea that a name will somehow make one creative. Take, for example, the name "John," which has represented some of the most diverse men in history, such as Kennedy, Birch, Lennon, Adams (and Quincy Adams), the Baptist, Ashcroft, Audubon, Appleseed, Belushi, Rockefeller, Locke... just off the top of my head. If you really want your kid to be a trailblazer, give him a plain name so he'll be forced to distinguish himself.
posted by : joan on 10/6/2008 at 11:31 AM Flag For Abuse
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Anyone interested in this topic should take a look at Baby's Named a Bad, Bad Thing, http://www.notwithoutmyhandbag.com/babynames/. It's hysterical! Also very informative. For example:
[quote]
DAKOTA, LAKOTA, etc. I am an actual Indian, Oglala Lakota. I live in North Dakota. Stop with the so called "american indian" names, will ya? Dakota does not mean "friend", that's just what white folks think.
I saw someone here post something to the effect of "my wife is one-eighth Sioux, so we named our son 'Lakota', which means 'good earth' in American Indian. Spot all the errors in that sentence.
*If* someone is actually Siouan, they would identify themselves as Oglala, Hunkpapa, Sicangu, Nakota, Dakota, Lakota, etc., not "sioux". If the name is a word from the Lakota language, it is not "american indian". There is NO "american indian" language.
How many of you would think 'Pahli', 'Sicamna', or 'Sica' were pretty and unusual "american indian" names? Know what they mean? Mucous, Stink, and Ugly.
Do what you must, but leave the Dakota and Lakota Nations out of it, along with all other American Indian Nations. Find some other culture to co-opt. [/quote]
posted by : joan on 10/6/2008 at 11:33 AM Flag For Abuse
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The idiom is 'toeing the line', not 'towing the line'. As in putting your foot right up to the line, not pulling the line behind you.
posted by : Abema on 10/6/2008 at 11:36 AM Flag For Abuse
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I think if a parent says, "at first we were a little embarrassed to say his name" (a paraphrase of Catcher's parents' comment) then it's safe to say, don't do it!! Jeez. Name the kid whatever you want, but please, love the name. How odd to sign a birth certificate of your baby when you are still "a little uncomfortable" with it. Strange stuff. I didn't read the article very carefully, but now I think I'll go back given the treatises posted above. I agree in re not co-opting religious or cultural names when you have no idea what they really mean (or don't mean.) Me, I stuck with what I know: Plain Jane (not really "Jane", but close) names that are in the bible and in the American history books... just our preference.
posted by : BBBGMOM on 10/6/2008 at 12:14 PM Flag For Abuse
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Wow! Did this coincide with Babble blogger Rebecca's recent baby name choice, or what? The noun as name- Apple, Pilot, Lyric, Archer, Fable- is now a trend. I don't think it's very original now that it's being done so much. Fable Luella sounds like an infant girl clothing line, BTW.
I have a unique name. I don't regret my parents choice because my name has meaning not only for the reason it was chosen, but it's literal meaning as well. I gave my children unique names (boys only slightly less unique than my girls), but all of them have meanings that my husband and I were happy with. There is a difference between unique and obscure. Unique is Suri and Shiloh, not the aforementioned noun names. Those are just obscure.
posted by : nounnamer on 10/6/2008 at 1:35 PM Flag For Abuse
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Shiloh is not unique. It was far closer to obscure. It's a boy-to-girl transfer. It's like naming a girl Zeke. It's a name with a long established history for boys that was VERY out of vogue. But an obscure name to one generation, can become a hit to another, like Olivia.
There are lots of noun names that are common enough with different types of parents - Ruby, Lily, Pierre, Rose, Golda, Taylor, Skye, River, Fern, Heaven, Autumn etc...
What really makes a name like Maverick different from Constance? Time and popularity. That's all.
posted by : J McJewJew on 10/6/2008 at 2:08 PM Flag For Abuse
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I thought that Shiloh was a Hebrew name? It's not a made-up name like Suri, anyway.
posted by : areusure on 10/6/2008 at 2:11 PM Flag For Abuse
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areusure,
Suri means 'red rose' and is Persian according to babynames.com
posted by : ladybug2 on 10/6/2008 at 2:40 PM Flag For Abuse
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"Cruise's spokesperson has said that the name Suri has origins in ancient Hebrew as a variation on Sarah (hence the Kabbalah explanation), but its direct Hebrew meaning is less complicated:
"I really don't know what they were thinking when they chose this name. It's a term that denotes expulsion, like 'Get out of here'," said Gideon Goldenberg, a linguistics professor at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. "It's pretty blunt.""
posted by : gawker quoter on 10/6/2008 at 2:57 PM Flag For Abuse
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Ladybug2, Dov means bear in Hebrew but no one names a child "Bear". In hebrew it's a common enough name. I've never heard of anyone named Bear. A name can mean something and be a recently made up name.
Suri is in guides now because Tom Cruise named his daughter that. I'm fairly sure it is not a Persian name.
Peter Abelard and his lover Heloise named their son Peter Astrolabe. An astrolabe is a device to measure the position of the sun and stars. A book I read likened it to naming your child Microchip or Internet. So, despite having a meaning, it is a made up name.
Of course in a few generations, Suri could become a common enough name.
posted by : J McJewJew on 10/6/2008 at 3:00 PM Flag For Abuse
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I would of loved to give my son a "different" name. However his last name is Hard, seriously, our family name is HARD. You can imagine the ribbing my husband got growing up, so we chose not to give our munchkin a difficult first name (nickname proof was he chapter we used in the baby name wizard). You don't even want to know what my last name is.
posted by : justincase on 10/6/2008 at 3:02 PM Flag For Abuse
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My son's name is also Catcher and I was quite surprised to find that another boy out there shared his name. My husband and I are big fans of Catcher in the Rye and we had always planned on naming our little man Holden after the main character. One day we threw Catcher out there and it stuck. We absolutely love our choice and surprisingly enough we have hardly had any negative feedback. We had our daughter, Louisiana, last October. Her name was the combination my grandmother's (woman who raised me) name Louisa and her sister Anna (who passed away while I was pregs). Her name means a lot to me and my grandfather who dearly misses his wife couldn't have been more honored.
My name is Amelia which was definitely rare growing up. I always got the Amelia Bedilia thing. However I always liked that I had a standout name and knew no other Amelia's. I hope my kids will feel the same way.
posted by : Chefswidow on 10/6/2008 at 3:04 PM Flag For Abuse
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I grew up with a unique name by American cultural standards and I am very proud of it. It is very much a part of who I am and who I have chosen to become. Yes, there were many times growing up that my name was a source of upset and still it takes people forever to figure out how to pronounce it. Unique names are not the issue. The issue here are the parents who use their children’s names to make stupid tongue in cheek hipster statements about themselves. In the process they choose Bad names not unique ones. But as for the not so common names out there, why should everyone be Jane, Mackenzie, Aiden and David and Clara?
posted by : FrutiousMaximus on 10/6/2008 at 3:11 PM Flag For Abuse
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I know someone who wanted to name his son Mordechai after the baseball player who had a nickname something like 'three finger' or some such. Anyway, I agree with JMcJJ, ain't nothing wrong with Mordechai and yet it doesn't exactly flow off the tongue in English. My own name (not Willa) doesn't flow too well either, but what it would have been per my Serbian father's wishes had I been a boy... Yikes! Luckily there is now a good tennis player and a dreamy actor on ER with it, but, boy, golly, I think I would have gotten beaten up a lot prior to these precedents on the international scene.
posted by : WonderingWilla on 10/6/2008 at 3:32 PM Flag For Abuse
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I'm with the person above who basically said 'good' or 'bad' names really shift and depend on time and culture. I also think it's a little silly and immature to make something up - or convert a noun - simply to be trendy. I like the meaningful aspect..I tried, with both my boys, to picture it applying to a sweet baby, a young child, a teenager, and a grown man. My oldest son's name became super popular a couple of years later..my youngest's name is biblical: Jeremiah. I loved the biblical character Jeremiah and my husband loves the character of Jeremiah Johnson. So far we love it - no regrets. Things shift, they change, there's a strong chance that all of our names will go in and out of style during our lifetimes.
that girl
posted by : that girl on 10/6/2008 at 3:53 PM Flag For Abuse
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OK, first of all, the notwithoutmyhandbag site is the funniest thing I've ever read outside of David Sedaris.
Second of all, what's with all the girls named McKenna, Mackenzie, etc? Do their parents just not GET that "Mac" means "Son Of"?
Third of all, I am also weirded out by the -adon generation. Bradon, Kadon, Jadon etc.
Fourth of all, please quit with the last name as first name thing. It's SILLY.
Fifth and last, spell the damn name CORRECTLY. Names have MEANING beyond the sound of the letters tacked together. If you MUST name your daughter Mackenzie, don't get cutesy and saddle her with Mykinzy.
(My husband works with a Kenya. Only, her parents spelled it... Kyna.)
posted by : cattypex on 10/6/2008 at 4:23 PM Flag For Abuse
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cattypex: You hate the names Courtney, Thomas, Martin and Shirley?
posted by : J McJJ on 10/6/2008 at 4:47 PM Flag For Abuse
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My son was born in France, so we wanted to give him a French name, with a lovely meaning. But, I absolutely hate common names! We chose Antoine, which is Anthony in French & quite well known here, but when we move back to Australia, it will be a very uncommon name there. So I feel we got the best of both worlds, classic in France & unusual in other parts of the world.
It also fits in most languages around the world, Antonio, Anton, Antonije, Antony etc..so it suits my son's mixed heritage & please the elders on both sides.
Honestly, it depends on where you live that makes a name qualify as being strange. A Drazenko, Dragan & Milena in Serbia are the equivalent of James, Joe & Emma in America..lol...
My Serbian grandmother thinks James is the most ridiculous weird sounding name...hahaha...You will never please everybody, just do your own thing!
posted by : Antoines Mama on 10/6/2008 at 8:22 PM Flag For Abuse
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Am I the only person who felt sort of like I was faking it with my child's name? For the first few months of her life it just felt bizarre to call her a name that obviously had nothing to do with who she really was when she entered this world. I can see why some people leave the hospital without a name on their child's birth certificate - she must have been at least seven months old before it felt like the name had anything to do with this unearthly little creation/miracle.
Maybe this same feeling leads people to try to create names that reflect that feeling of strange wonder. But....
I have to agree with seriously on Catcher. I'm so sorry. It's the absolute first thing that sprang to mind when I read that. Maybe by the time he's in middle school it will have lost that slang meaning - I hope so, for their sakes. There really aren't that many names I object to, but ones that get a kid hazed are probably avoidable. I would hope for the same reason that Bon Qui Qui is also off limits now.
posted by : catmom on 10/6/2008 at 8:30 PM Flag For Abuse
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J McJewJew
The woman that runs the babynames.com site does a lot of research into the origins of names, so it's a good place to look for the true meaning of a name. Please also keep in mind that different languages can have words that are similar, but mean completely different things.
posted by : Ladybug2 on 10/7/2008 at 8:13 AM Flag For Abuse
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Umm... Ladybug2 I’m not sure what you comment has to do with mine. I believe you are mixing me up with Gawker Quoter. But I have to agree it is ridiculous if Cruise’s camp TOLD the press ‘Suri’ was related to the name ‘Sarah’ but it really more closely means “get out of here”. Oops, I guess they had to find a language where it meant something pretty. But names don’t have to mean something attractive. Most names have meaning. Wattenburg pointed out Cameron means ‘crooked nose’ and its a perfectly good name. That old classic ‘Mary’ is derived from a Hebrew name meaning “sea of bitterness”. Who knows why anyone thought that would be a good name for girls? But it’s a quite common name in many languages with many variations on the theme, due to the religious characters who bore the name.
All I meant is that picking words from other languages doesn’t make it a previously established name. Just because a word has a meaning in some language, doesn’t mean you didn’t just make up a name. In other languages, there are lots of animal names, especially for boys. I could name about six off the top of my head, like ‘Dov’. But I can only think of one in English - ‘Fox’. However, some motifs are popular across cultures - King and Queen and other noble classes seem to be names that relate in their various languages. I can think of several royality titles that are names.
As I said before, I have no objection for taking a word and making it a name. “Sky” is a rare but established recent creation and for that matter “Summer” is relatively new. 'Suri' could also become a common enough name in a generation. It sounds nice. But that doesn’t mean it’s a Persian name, just because it might have a Persian root.
posted by : JMcJJ on 10/7/2008 at 9:09 AM Flag For Abuse
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To echo some of those above, I have an odd name, and I hate repeating myself ten times a day when I answer the phone at my job. Seriously though, if you are going to name your kid something common don't be a jerk and try to make it unique by messing up the spelling just to be creative. It's not creative, it's annoying. If there is a reason (like it's spelt a certain way due to culture or tradition, etc) then go for it, but if you are just doing it to make your little snowflake more unique, you might want to think twice.
posted by : lilacorchid on 10/7/2008 at 12:31 PM Flag For Abuse
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FrutiousMaximus, "Jane" is not a common name. It ranked around 430 for the past 7 years. "Jayden," by comparison, ranked 172 last year. At this point, it seems like a kid with a normal name stands out more than all the Sailors and Borghnines and Ukes and Nahrnyaz out there. I've only met a handful of Jeans my age (ranked 525 when I was born, 852 now), and it's a good, strong name that everyone except Italians can spell. They call me Gina. I don't mind that.
posted by : easy being Jean on 10/7/2008 at 4:57 PM Flag For Abuse
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It goes either way. I am a Jennifer born in 1979 and I loathe it. I cannot believe my parents gave me such a stupid over used name. In second grade there were four of us, and my teacher randomly declared that I would be Jen. I didn't want to be called Jen, but I didn't get a choice. It also didn't make any difference as to whether or not kids bullied me. I was a geeky bookworm kid, that was all the ammunition they needed, had I been named Jennifer or Protractor. My last name, on the other hand, is extremely uncommon and I really like that fact. I never for a second thought about changing it when I got married because then my whole name would be boring. I think too much value is being assigned to names, either which way. They're just names. If people mispronouncing your name is the biggest bane of your existence you should count yourself lucky.
posted by : 1 Jennifer out of 800000 on 10/7/2008 at 6:10 PM Flag For Abuse
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Jean: It's interesting the way some people view 'Jane'. Some have very vehement reactions against it. I think the impression that it is popular comes from the fact that so many famous women and characters that carry the name. Unlike Neveah,it's a very old name. It has a pedigree. Personally, I've always loved 'Jane'. It's simple, elegant, easy to spell and feminine without being girlish. It sounds and looks attractive. It's the little black dress of names. Suitable for all occasions. And if you hate nicknames, Jane is as good insurance as any.
As to the Jennifers.... Yah, that was rough. There's always a weird group think going on with naming children. You can take comfort in the fact that no name is as popular as Jennifer was. Ethan is similar in my neck of the woods. I know overall, it is not THAT popular. But in my area, I can't hear about 4 boys being born without at least one of them being named Ethan. Enough! Find another name.
I would much rather have my son share a popular classic, like John , than a recent fashionable one. It seems expected that someone else in your travels will be named John or Jane.
posted by : beeker on 10/8/2008 at 8:25 AM Flag For Abuse
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I have a strange name, and though I found it to be liability as a child (I was teased), I have found it to be an asset as an adult (people remember it). I read once that people with strange names more often end up in therapy; I think it's possible that such people also more often distinguish themselves. A distinctive name gives a child a little of a spotlight, which can either be intimidating or empowering depending on the child.
I think it's crazy that some people are suggesting here that everyone should be named John, Sam, Jen and Sally. This herd mentality thinking, based on fear. And a failure of imagination.
posted by : chattydaddy on 10/8/2008 at 10:10 AM Flag For Abuse
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A classic from Baby's Named a Bad, Bad Thing:
________________
***
My first born has a name that no one else has, he is a first, Abeus ( Abe E us ) it is a strong name, and as for getting along with other children his age, there is not a doubt in my mind he has friends. He gets along with other children, and is not picked on because of his name.
***
This is one of my favorites. It has everything, nice and compact. It's got a bad name, which sounds like a combination or fragment of a normal one, spelled strangely, and emphasized poorly.
Plus, it has a mother who insists the child is unique, and then insists in a rather desperate tone that he isn't a total social outcast, spurned by humanity and destined to live in a sewer in the bowels of Gotham City because of the badly spelled, poorly emphasized bad, bad name. Really, she acts like having friends is something you believe in, as an act of faith, as opposed to something you witness with your own eyes.
All this, and there's a good bet the kid's no more than 10, so she's presumably watching him with her own eyes a good deal. Is she rationalizing the time the kids locked Abeus in the composting toilet as a friendly hazing incident?
(Reader Tom points out, and I can't believe I missed it, that Abeus is an anagram of "abuse." )
______________________
posted by : easy being Jean on 10/8/2008 at 10:29 AM Flag For Abuse
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chattydaddy, aside from the offspring of already famous people, how many oddly-named people can you think of who've "distinguished" themselves? There's Barack Obama, but it's generally acknowledged that his name has been a liability in his career (except with babies, who prefer it because of the vowels). Aside from that, the famous and powerful tend to have very dull, normal names.
posted by : mahazaratti on 10/8/2008 at 10:33 AM Flag For Abuse
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Learned Hand, Strom Thurmond, Ophrah Winfrey.
That's all I've got.
posted by : distinguished with funny names on 10/8/2008 at 2:18 PM Flag For Abuse
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I have an unusual name and have always loved it. Honestly. Always. Perhaps it's easier for girls? It made me feel unique. People generally remember me. It's an easy topic of conversation when you first meet someone. It's meaningful to my family. I felt bad for the Jennifers and Jessicas I grew up with.
And evidently I'm one of three people in America who approve of Apple. I think it's a nice name.
posted by : Sage on 10/9/2008 at 12:56 AM Flag For Abuse
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I grew up with a fairly average but nice-sounding name I love, and have to point out that even in cases like that, kids develop personalized variants or nicknames from their family members and friends... I think those are the true expression of "who" a person is, something those close to them can use; the formal name is a kind of launching pad. All kids are individuals, they don't need a fancy name for that; the ones that are truly unique are that way from personality and parenting.
If you wish your kid to be truly creative, give them access to age-appropriate art materials early on, read to them a great deal, make up stories and dance together, encourage and praise their work; creativity is a state of mind that takes work to maintain, not a title. Obviously bullying doesn't require having an odd name, and I'm a strong believer in anti-bullying measures... Problem is, a name is a particularly personal thing, so it can hurt a lot more to have a bully target that than many other common targets.
Perhaps future parents that like creative names could have a childbirth/adoption ritual of changing their own name to reflect the shift in their identity... They could then follow one culture's approach for their child, by giving a simple name for the pre-adolescent years, then allowing him/her to choose a grown-up name as part of a maturation ritual on their thirteenth birthday. I've heard that it benefits a child a great deal in behavior & attitude when there are firm thresholds like that anyway.
posted by : creative autie with a normal nam on 10/9/2008 at 2:08 AM Flag For Abuse
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Mahazaratti -- the screen names that celebrities pick, that stick in people's mind, are general not "john smith" ... they are usually atypical names, that their fame makes typical. Madonna would be one of innumerable examples. Thirty years ago a very small subset of the population were given strange names, and i am going to guess that a slightly higher percentage of them have outperformed. Today, a much larger percentage of kids -- particularly in highly competitive places like Manhattan -- are being given distinctive names ... I wouldn't be surprised if kids named "John" start feeling insecure about the plainness of their names in coming decades.
I think "Mahazaratti" has a nice name to it, but I am not sure i would give it to my son -- quite a few syllables!
posted by : chattydaddy on 10/9/2008 at 10:49 AM Flag For Abuse
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Madonna is actually the birth name of Madonna Louise Ciccone Ritchie, not a stage name. Prince likewise is a given name. However, screen celebrities usually pick pretty bland screen names -- specifically non-ethnic or non-weird ones, like Natalie Portman, born Natalie Hershlag; Winona Ryder, born Winona Laura Horowitz; Martin Sheen, born Ramon Estévez; John Wayne, born Marion Morrison. Musical celebrities tend to choose tough or kookie names (Bono, Slash, Sid Vicious). But distinguishing oneself doesn't mean being famous for acting or rocking out -- a quick glance at the Forbes most powerful women list, for example, reveals only one funny name in the top 25 -- Condoleezza Rice.
posted by : beg to differ on 10/9/2008 at 12:53 PM Flag For Abuse
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Funny, but sort of nice, I think. I read somewhere that her parents loved music, and they were trying to give a rough English approximation of the Italian instructions that you sometimes see in sheet music, in this case meaning (play) sweetly or (play) gently.
posted by : anon on 10/10/2008 at 2:33 AM Flag For Abuse
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Well, that just goes to show that names don't determine your life path, because Condi plays neither sweetly nor gently.
posted by : there you go on 10/10/2008 at 10:04 AM Flag For Abuse
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Some thoughts:
* How the heck did Nevaeh become SOOOOOOO popular? Was it the name of a pop culture character? (Yes, I know it's Heaven spelled backwards, but there couldn't suddenly be thousands of parents who spontaneously got the idea...)
* Oprah got her name because her parents mis-spelled the name Orpah (from the biblical story of Naomi and Ruth) on her birth certificate.
* Growing up with the common, simple name Amy, I got (and still get) asked constantly how to spell it. Same with my last name, which is one of those great English colour names! (Green, Black, White....) So please don't think those requests to spell your name are based on it's uniqueness. They're based on people's desire not to make assumptions (or their own cluelessness).
* Some professionals I worked with had ongoing conversation about the fact that it was the children at school with unusual names based on things like soap opera characters ("Cricket" from Y&R, among others) who tended to be more likely to end up involved with Child Protective Services. A testament to the kids? No, but perhaps to the general cluelessness of their parents' choice-making and inability to assess potential impacts of their actions on their offspring?
* I grew up in a small town with a 'normal' but not overused first name and common last name, which was probably the most appropriate thing in that circumstance. But now I live in a large, ethnically diverse city, and having a highly unique middle name has served me VERY well, both personally and professionally.
*** I think my parents hit the winning combination with "normal but not overused first name/unique middle name/common last name", and I think my brother would agree, because he has that pattern too, and repeated that pattern with his son. *** His wife also legally changed her name from a "common/less common/unusual" one, to "common/unique/common". I think it's a pattern worth considering!
Yes, there was a period of about three years as a little girl when I wished my middle name was Ann, Sue, Ellen, Marie, or Jane, like my classmates. But I grew out of that!!!
As for the actual middle names, our parents drew on family surnames from a number of generations ago in our families, so our names are not unheard-of, but definitely unique as anything but surnames (mine is a Scottish clan name, his reflects our Danish roots), and we both love them.
posted by : Not Amanda or Amelia just A M on 10/17/2008 at 5:30 PM Flag For Abuse
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Greetings,
I am the guy who named his kid Catcher.
First, I think the article's author did a fine job connecting the stream of information that covers a topic that could easily be expanded into book form.
For those interested in names and naming, Steven Pinker covers this quite well in his book, "The Stuff of Thought." Chapter 6 covers the topic almost exclusively, including discussion about the fluctuating popularity of names, and the phenomenon that leads many parents to pick names they think are unique, only to find several other children with the same name at pre-school.
He also addresses the reality that names of people and things have continuously been invented over time. Thus, while social norms may allow for more invention today than in the past, it is not a new phenomenon, in and of itself.
(The rest of this may come across as defensive, but I suppose that is what it is...)
Second, I am slightly amazed at the assumptions made by some posters in response to parts of the article. Jewey McJewJew's response about Mordechai is quite interesting, since his depiction of myself and/or the reporter as thinking it to be creative or crackpot is most off-base. The bottom line is that it is currently very much "out of fashion," as were the other old-school baseball names I threw at my wife that day. Pinker's book discusses the trends of this at length. Perhaps it is insensitive to joke about names that are out of fashion, but we struggled to find a name that we could both agree upon, and levity was needed in our discussions. The names mentioned in the quote include only those from the one discussion that led to the actual naming of our child. In other words, it's wise to understand that periodical writers can't offer total context for every statement from every individual they quote. They are moving the general information of the story along. That's their job. It's the reader's job to understand that a newspaper, magazine or online piece is not going to be fully contextualized. Space disallows that.
Abema's comment about us being embarrassed to say his name is a result of generalizing from a specific comment. It was simply a bit odd to say his name at baseball games at first. That's it. We love his name. We loved it from the moment we connected to it. Yes, we did try to come up with something we liked more, simply because we wanted something more common. Or thought we did. But we have never been embarrassed by his name. Not even close.
The comments about the possibility of a boy named Catcher being "hazed" with outdated homophobic slurs are what they are. I've worked with kids my entire life, and hazing based on names is quite minor compared to hazing based on perceived social status. As a parent, I want to try to focus on what's most important. It's too easy to get distracted by every minor worry that comes about.
Further, such hazing is also referred to as bullying. If kids with uncommon names are so harmed by their names, then it would seem likely that the psychological effects might lead to a higher percentage of them becoming the bullies who actually perform such hazing. I've yet to see any evidence of this in mental health literature.
As for "Not Amanda's" comment about some "professionals" claiming that more kids with odd names end up being referred to CPS, I have never heard such a comment in all my years working with kids, many of whom are involved in the CPS system. I have never come across a lick of actual research that indicates such a trend. Thus, her comment about parents who do not go with more common names being clueless is without basis. It's simply an opinion that she has pulled out of thin air.
So, yeah, I know this does come across as defensive. On the other hand, the comments I am responding to seem overbearing and judgmental without an evidence base for the judgments made.
Chefswidow: I love both the names you've chosen for your kids. We connected even more to the name Catcher because we love the connection to the Catcher in the Rye story within the novel, as well as to dream catchers.
All right, I'm done being defensive. I hope I haven't really hurt anyone's feelings.
Cheers.
posted by : Papa of Catcher on 10/18/2008 at 2:04 PM Flag For Abuse
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One other item of note: A friend of ours informed us that the name Catcher was used for a main character in a romantic comedy made in the early 2000s. I don't remember the name of the movie, as we never saw it.
We also compared the name Catcher to names like Hunter and Fisher, neither of which would be considered odd by most people, I believe.
Oh, I forgot to add that "odd" is the 11th most popular boy's name in Norway. And, yes, I think that's wonderful. Apparently "even" is also a popular Norwegian name.
And to add to the discussion above, here are a few other famous/successful people given "odd" names at birth (and, yeah, let's start with baseball):
Kenesaw Mountain Landis, American jurist and baseball commissioner, named after Kennesaw Mountain near Atlanta, Georgia.
Milton Bradley, an outfielder for the Texas Rangers
Armand Hammer, who was named after the "Arm and Hammer" symbol of the Socialist Labor Party.
American McGee, video game designer (Quake, American McGee's Alice) famous for having an unusual name.
Peerless Price, wide receiver for the Buffalo Bills.
Condoleezza Rice, current US Secretary of State. Name is based on a misspelling of the Italian musical term 'con dolcezza' which means '[to be played] with sweetness'.
Amor De Cosmos, the second premier of British Columbia, Canada. His name in Portuguese (and Spanish) actually means "Love Of Cosmos".
All right. I'm done. For now.
Cheers.
posted by : Papa of Catcher on 10/18/2008 at 2:28 PM Flag For Abuse
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To all others- I'm sorry for the long post. Please, pass by this long post.
Mr. Kremmerer,
What I object to is the fact that most people will not know that Mordechai is a traditional Jewish/Hebrew name with biblical roots. It was really Ms. Sanger's job to provide that context, not the reader's. How is a reader to provide context if they lack the knowledge. As they say, you don't know what you don't know. It was her job to do the research, not ours and not mine.
At the Jewish religious school my sister’s family attends there are several Sollys. Their full names are 'Solomon' and they go by 'Solly', just as a 'Madison' might known as 'Maddie'. As I said above, the only thing that list proves is that the history of American baseball involved a lot of Jews. Of course I don’t mean that you should have named your son ‘Mordechai’. I don’t care what you named your son.
What I object to is the blanket idea that the name is silly or even out of fashion (which btw was not the impression I got from this article. I got the impression that it was out of fashion because it was silly.) I read the article a few times, but even after that, it still seemed to me that we were supposed to find the name ‘Mordechai’ hilarious. I don't. I hear it as a normal Jewish name. No Jew I know would blink if I told them I was naming my son 'Mordechai'.
It is not out of fashion as you claim. It was used moderately when I was young and still is used today. It has never been the most popular English/Legal name amongst assimilated Jews. But, some segments of the American Jewish population feel less need to conform their traditional ways to mainstream America. (After this article, that path is looking just a bit rosier to me).
It seems obvious that you will find few assimilated Jews unwilling to give their child a name most of the American population cannot pronounce. (It’s not a fault, but a fact. Just like, my inability to roll my r’s.) The ‘ch’ represents a sound that English does not have. That alone makes it unlikely to burst into the mainstream, as ‘Asher’ has.
That ‘ch’ sound is why you get a great many Rachels and Leahs but not a great number of Chiyas. But that doesn’t make the latter ridiculous. I know at least three little girls whose Hebrew names are ‘Chiya’, while their English names might be mainstream ones like Olivia or Lucy. I have known enough Mordechais over my life to know it is not as rare as you assume. Amongst assimilated Jewish parents, it would be more often used as a HEBREW name while the English names might be ones like Morris or Max and a generation or two ago they might have been Milton or Morton. Being a Jew, I probably know more Jews than you do. I also know the Hebrew names of many my friends and family. When I was a child I knew the Hebrew names of children in my Hebrew classes and my synagogue.
‘Priya’ or ‘Krishna’ also doesn’t appear on any popularity lists, but I have known several Pryias and Krishna’s. I wouldn’t call them crackpot names because they are uncommon in mainstream America. They are simply names used by a specific minority with little crossover appeal.
I don’t lack a sense of humour. I joked about naming with my brother recently. I suggested both Bootsey (for a girl) and Buck (for a boy) because they seemed so unlikely to suit any future child he might have. (Perhaps I should have suggested Catcher instead)
However, I wouldn’t write an article giving the impression that giving that the name ‘Krishan’ or ‘Pooja’ were so hilarious without pointing out that they are Indian/Hindu/(please include the many languages of South East Asia here) and I am not of South East Asian heritage. I admire Mahatma Ghandi, but I’m not about to honour him by naming my child ‘Mahatma', despite the fact that in my circles it would be an unsual name. That fact doesn’t make it silly.
I see no reason to laugh at an ethnic name that happens to be uncommon in mainstream America. I thought we were past doing that or at least past doing it in print. Perhaps you should stick to laughing at perfectly good Jewish/Hebrews names in private.
Why is that your Jewishphobic joke is acceptable while you decry the mere mention of gay slang meaning as homophobic? What if your son is gay? Ever think about how awkward such a name might be for him if he ends up travelling in queer circles? It’s hard to be taken seriously with a name like ‘Catcher’ when the slang meaning is the first thing that comes to mind.
I’d take Mordechai any day of the week.
posted by : J McJewJew on 10/20/2008 at 9:44 AM Flag For Abuse
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J McJewJew,
I'm sorry, but many names have biblical roots, and even then they have gone in and out of fashion. Mordechai is certainly one that currently out of fashion. And, to the modern ear, it probably does seem silly. Again, read Pinker's chapter on names and naming history.
I suspect that someone who seems to have very focused world-view, such as yourself, might find it interesting.
Cheers.
posted by : Papa of Catcher on 10/20/2008 at 12:34 PM Flag For Abuse
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J McJewJew,
I'm sorry, but many names have biblical roots, and even then they have gone in and out of fashion. Mordechai is certainly one that currently out of fashion. And, to the modern ear, it probably does seem silly. Again, read Pinker's chapter on names and naming history.
I suspect that someone who seems to have a very focused world-view, such as yourself, might find it interesting.
I also find it interesting that you choose to believe bringing up old-school is "Jewphobic," and use that excuse to attack my kid's name with continued nonsense. If that is the first thing that comes to mind, your mind is in a very bizarre place.
Cheers.
posted by : Papa of Catcher on 10/20/2008 at 12:37 PM Flag For Abuse
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Yes, many names have biblical roots. But some names are more popular amongst Jews and others have a broader mainstream appeal. But why would you assume the names enjoyed by the Jewish community would be exactly the same ones as enjoyed by the mainstream? I don't see a great number of white anglo saxons naming their sons 'Miguel'. It's natural that this version of 'Michael' would be popular amongst people of Spanish speaking backgrounds.
The reason 'Mordechai' is unpopular in America (as I wrote before) is because it has no anglo version, was never popular with non-Jews and assmilated Jews, who assume their child will have to live and work in an English speaking world, know most people will not be able to pronounce it. I also know Jews aren't immune to fashion. A few generations ago, Milton was wildly popular in the Jewish community.
The reality is, that you don't move in circles where 'Mordechai' may have staying power and you don't know the Hebrew names of many Jewish boys or men. Also, just because there was one Jewish baseball player named Mordechai, doesn't mean it was ever wildly popular.
You percieve it as old-fashioned because you associate it with a baseball player from the beginning of the century. But you really don't know how popular it was or is amongst Jews as a subcommunity. You assume that because there was a player named Mordechai, it was common at the time he was born and is now out of fashion. You have nothing to back up that assumption. It could just as easily have a steady rate of popularity.
I just looked it up. 2003 was the ONLY year where it ranked in the top 1000 at 925. It's likely that it shows up because we have such a greater diversity of male names today. Rarer names make the list as fewer people use previously common names like 'John' and others seek out creative spellings. It doesn't prove 'Mordechai' was previously fashionable and is now out of fashion. And it doesn't mean it was ever rare in the Jewish community. There is a middle ground - names that aren't wildly popular but are steadily used over long periods of time.
Pinker's theory is interesting, but hardly the last word on the matter. There are others with equally interesting perspectives on naming. I'm not going to justify my right to an opinion. There's a comment space and I may be ignorant, but I'm going to use it. I feel this article needs a balanced perspective on the name 'Mordechai'. It is not like naming your child 'Dweezil' or 'Apple'.
Mr. Kremmerer, you don't know anything about me. That is obvious as I'm someone on the internet who is talking about one subject. Hardly a diverse view. I'll let you guess... Am I voting for McCain or Obama? It's hard to tell by just asking my opinion on this one article by Ms. Sanger. You know I have a brother and a sister. I'm Jewish. And that you offended me. (I'm assuming you think I'm uber-religious. I'm not. So, now you know another thing about me.) I'm not sure what else a "focused world-view" could mean. For the record, I am an assimilated Jew.
Pinker is not going to have the whole picture on Jewish naming traditions. Statistics don't count the number of parents using Mordechai as a Hebrew name. That might not matter to you, but it does to many Jews. Many view it as an important part of their Jewish identity.
Over the years I have known many Jews (young and old) with names that would seem unsual or "old-school" to the average American without much experience in the Jewish community. But, such names won't necessarily strike a Jewish person the same way. Perhaps I will start suggesting 'Catcher' to lighten the mood. (Or would that offend you!)
It's not because I have a narrow world view. It is just common sense that a Jew might meet more Jews. Unless you happen to send your kids to Hebrew classes, belong to a synagogue or work with Jewish organizations and charities.
Unless, by 'old-school', you mean names favoured by the mainstream (ie Christians) over time. I'm not really much concerned with what you think of our names.
As to my mind being a bizarre place, perhaps it is. But, I didn't make the connection to the slang meaning for 'catcher'. Someone else did. I just think it is interesting and a completely valid point. Why throw rocks, when your house is made of glass?
You are the one who said:
"Dizzy, Babe, Mordechai, Mookie, Boog and Solly are a few that I threw out, thinking I was being funny and lightening up the mood."
Why can you not accept that Jews would probably not see it as a funny name? That is bizzare.
Stick to what you know.
posted by : J McJewJew on 10/20/2008 at 3:50 PM Flag For Abuse
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I think it's funny that anyone would attempt a serious discussion with someone identified as "Jewey McJewJew."
posted by : speaking of names on 10/20/2008 at 4:12 PM Flag For Abuse
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I don't believe that any reasonable person really thinks that a name determines one's life path. As mentioned before, boys named John have grown up to be presidents, serial killers, revolutionaries, ground-breaking artists and musicians, and so on. And there's absolutely no evidence that funny names change the way one turns out either. I work at an historical association, and you would be amazed at the crazy names people have given their kids throughout American history, and the crazy spellings they've come up with. "Creative" naming is nothing new. What is new, however is the annoying smugness that goes along with the choosing of a "creative" name. The simple act of calling it a creative or unique name is annoying, and something that wouldn't have happened in the early 1800s when people were naming their kids Nob and Rust and Zupha and Rebbeckaah just for the hell of it. If you want to name your kid Uke or Chud or Nharnyah or Lentily, go for it, but don't act like you're doing something super awesome and creative and different. If you want to be creative, paint a picture. If you want to name a kid, name a kid.
posted by : ernest on 10/20/2008 at 4:34 PM Flag For Abuse
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Just because a name is common (like mine, Lindsay) does not mean you won't constantly be spelling it for people (and correcting them on the pronunciation: LYNN-zee, not LYNN-say). I have had people spell my name every way from Lindsey (common) to Linsey to Lynzee. Because there are unusual spellings for common names out there, regardless of whether or not the child's name is spelled "correctly" means the child will be spending the greater part of their lives correcting the spelling of their name. I doubt I've had any less trouble with my own name than my sister, whose name is Kaleigh (an obviously more unusual form of Kaylee).
As far as a child with an unusual name wishing for a more common name, I spent most of my childhood (until quite recently) wishing I had a more unusual name (I was one of three Lindsay's in my very small 3rd grade class). Everyone goes through a period of self loathing, especially in school when bullying is prevalent. One's name really has no bearing on one's future.
posted by : Lindsay on 10/26/2008 at 11:06 PM Flag For Abuse
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I'm not big on telling other people what to name their kids. I personally prefer more traditional names. It annoys me when people say names like John or Mary (or whatever other common name) is stifling though. As my grandfather George says, there are millions of ways to be a George. Just like you can also be unique and interesting if you choose to keep your brown hair brown and not dye it some wilder shade. Just like you can be a married mother of two and not be just like every other married mother of two. A unique name is just that, a name - not a life.
posted by : mchaos on 1/16/2009 at 5:06 PM Flag For Abuse
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I, like the Oglala Lakota guy quoted above, hate when people give their kids an 'Indian name'! First of all, there is no 'American Indian' language. For example, my hubby and I are both Native American but I speak Lakota and he speaks Navajo. Two VERY different languages and there are hundreds more. If you go on any baby naming site they have a ton of Lakota and Navajo names misspelled, mispronounced, and misinterpreted. Chayton is actually spelled Cetan. We had a good laugh one day when we saw the word Bilaganaa, which means white person, given as a boy name on a website. Really?! Just name your white kid a white kid name and leave our names alone.
posted by : Goodface on 4/17/2009 at 10:23 PM Flag For Abuse
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wow...you wouldn't believe the trouble I got for naming my daughter....wait for it...Mary. People told me it was too old fashioned, it was for an old lady. Drove me crazy. I think the best advice I got from anyone was when my granddad (named Vernon) told me if I wanted my kids to learn foreign languages I should give them a name that was likely to translate easily. Among the languages spoken in the Americas and Europe, traditional names like John, Andrew, Mark, Michael, Alexander, James, Mary, Jane, Susan, Samuel, Daniel, Danielle, Paul, etc. seem to do pretty well.
posted by : myanna on 9/9/2009 at 5:21 PM Flag For Abuse
