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That's awful that you have to choose between healthy and friendly where you live. Why should having a kid condemn you to chains and big box stores?
We definitely don't hit the fancy restaurants like we used to, but there are plenty of healthy, delicious and independent restaurants and shops in our corner of Brooklyn -- you won't be seeing us at McDonald's, ever.
posted by : boop on 10/9/2008 at 2:42 AM Flag For Abuse
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Ditto for Portland, Oregon, boop. And if you need fast food while you're here, try healthy, sustainable, mostly locally sourced Burgerville. It can be done. But McDonalds would have to charge a little more to do it.
posted by : anon on 10/9/2008 at 3:16 AM Flag For Abuse
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I am so sick of this whole organic thing! While I think the idea of organic food is great, and wish that more food was grown that way, organic food is too expensive. And while some of that might be due to the process, I think some places upcharge just because there's an "O" on the label.
McDonald's is fine in moderation. While I always fed my son breakfast at home, I never had time to feed myself, so most of the time I ate my breakfast in the car and most of the time it was either McDonald's or Dunkin Donuts. Quick and cheap and my stomach is full. As for my son, he doesn't get McDonald's that often. Usually only a few bites of my food, because I usually make sure he eats well, even if I don't. But as he gets older, that will probably change. As long as it's in moderation, I'm comfortable with it.
posted by : lilmissyny on 10/9/2008 at 9:19 AM Flag For Abuse
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I agree that it's hard to bring a young child into restaurants that don't put out a welcome mat. (I recall once being told that there was nowhere to store my folded-up umbrella stroller, that putting it in the corner near our table was an unacceptable fire hazard, and that our only option was leaving it outside in the rain. They won.)
Still, it isn't that hard to find good options that don't involve fast food chains. In addition to the usual "go early, eat fast" tips, it's helpful to find places with buffets (Indian lunches, for example) or salad bars, so that kids can eat almost immediately upon seating. Another favorite for us when kids were small was restaurants with interesting features (big windows from which to view and comment on passers-by, open kitchens to watch the preparations, even a wood-fired oven). If the kids have something to do besides wait patiently or become disruptive, it can work.
And, to ensure that the servers will welcome you back, clean up any messes before leaving.
posted by : hand on 10/9/2008 at 11:26 AM Flag For Abuse
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Another shout-out for P-town: all I have to say is "vita cafe." Hello, between 5 and 7 every night, kids eat for a buck, and the menu is sooo not McDonald's: brown rice and veggies; veggie burger; burritos; smoothies; vegan mac and cheese...yum.
posted by : pdxkat on 10/9/2008 at 12:11 PM Flag For Abuse
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Thanks for this essay. I'm sure you'll get lavishly flamed for it - I swear, some people read Babble just for the flaming opportunities - but it's nice to read an essay that reminds us we don't have to be perfect whole-grain wunderparents. I salute you with a french fry.
posted by : LauraLaura on 10/9/2008 at 12:13 PM Flag For Abuse
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The bright spot about the economic downturn is that as it deepens, I won't have to listen nattering about orgaaaanic and whoooole-food and heeeeealthy. Soon, McDonalds will be a rare treat for the middle class, and orgaaaaanic will be a non-issue.
Loved the article.
posted by : ItsAllJustFood on 10/9/2008 at 12:26 PM Flag For Abuse
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Yay for Austin, Texas! A city with plenty of kid-friendly locally owned spots that serve healthier, more adventurous, and fun food for mom and kids alike. Like Phil's Icehouse/Amy's Ice Cream where the kids can play on the playground while the parents enjoy a beer.
posted by : JBH on 10/9/2008 at 12:42 PM Flag For Abuse
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Minneapolis has no shortage of independent kid-friendly eateries and coffee shops. Some even encourage the younger set with the "kids eat free" nights and play areas. I personally don't like eating McD's, but it's a matter of taste. I eat red meat and freedom fries; I'm just totally picky about the taste of those items and have found my fave burger baskets at other locales. McD's was considered a special treat when I was little & I used to enjoy a cheeseburger happy meal every once in a while. My kids love it & get pretty excited for road trips b/c McD's is one of the few reliable stopping points on the freeway. I do buy into the fat/sodium thing and would not feed my kids McD's et al. daily just because it is not healthy to do so. But anyone who thinks it's Bad Parenting to do the mcnugget meal every once in a while is way too uptight.
posted by : BBBGMOM on 10/9/2008 at 1:04 PM Flag For Abuse
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I still haven't taken my 17-month old to McD's, but not b/c I will never take her there. I just think at this point she is too young for the grease and salt. When she's older, I will let her have it in moderation. Right now when we eat out, it's mostly to our local diner. Diner's are great for kids. There are healthy options and service is quick. The waitstaff is always so sweet to her and we enjoy ourselves.
posted by : Mildred on 10/9/2008 at 1:11 PM Flag For Abuse
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Not flaming you here, but the writer does present this as an either or option. McDonald's (or Dunkin Donuts) isn't the only place to take kids but it does have the least healthy options (read the label on those apples -- they peel them so there are zero vitamins except for C, which probably comes from the preservative that keeps them from going brown).
Our default fast food/restaurant choices are all the ethnic eateries(and they're just as cheap as McDonald's). Because for some reason, non-Americans have a much higher tolerance/understanding/enjoyment of babies and kids. We eat Thai, Mexican, Korean, Japanese, Peruvian, Indian, Southern, Hawaiian. Anywhere but the French bistro with the kids and we're good. And the servers love kids and they're super accommodating and get mad if you try to clean up the mess and insist on holding the baby until mom gets settled. Smiles from the other diners when everybody's melting down.
I'm no purist: we eat McDonald's when we're on the road and once in a while when it just happens to be there and we happen to need to eat fast. But I hate giving them so much credit ... the food really is crap! (Those nuggets, sadly, don't contain the all white meat chicken you touted -- not that deep-fried all white meat chicken is necessarily healthy.)
posted by : KCP on 10/9/2008 at 1:12 PM Flag For Abuse
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Wow, this is like the ultimate bad parent article designed to rile people up. Mention of drinking alcohol while pregnant? Check. Formula feeding instead of breast feeding? Check. Defensive fast food embracing while mocking organic food? Check. There's something for everyone here.
Also, I don't care what you feed yourself or your kids. None of my business.
posted by : 1 Jennifer out of 800000 on 10/9/2008 at 1:39 PM Flag For Abuse
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BBBGMOM, name one Mpls eatery that can feed my 3-year-old twins for less than $5 before tax (that's for BOTH kids), as McD's can do.
We aren't afraid to go to nicer restaurants with my kids, we just can't afford it.
McD's also has a new print ad out that I saw in a dr. office magazine- they show grilled cheese, a hot dog, etc. with calorie and fat counts, and yes, a chicken mcnugget entree, apple dippers, and milk have fewer calories and fat than the other items featured. It's not the worst of the worst anymore, and my kids still don't know that those apples come with the sugary caramel.
posted by : WSP on 10/9/2008 at 1:47 PM Flag For Abuse
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Yes, it's just horrifying that my 18 month old daughter asks us for edamame and doesn't know what McDonald's is. We're such terrible elitists to feed her healthy food! And for those of you nattering about how organic is so out because it's too expensive, give it up. If you want to feed your kids crap, that's fine. But why try to tie it to the economic downturn? The last bag of (yes, organic) edamame we bought was about $2.79, and we don't eat it all at one sitting.
At the very least, swing by a Chipotle - tasty rice and fresh beans, and a tortilla, for a couple of bucks!
posted by : karmamama on 10/9/2008 at 1:54 PM Flag For Abuse
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BTW, Chipotle is McDonald's.
posted by : drskatz on 10/9/2008 at 2:04 PM Flag For Abuse
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McDonalds sold the last of their Chipotle stock in 2006.
http://denver.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2006/07/24/daily20.html
posted by : 1 Jennifer out of 800000 on 10/9/2008 at 2:08 PM Flag For Abuse
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I love this article - and it's so funny that this subject matter is what gets people all up in arms. Yes, we should be eating healthier as a country, yes, it's good to give your kids (and yourself) organic foods..but reality check to most of the posters above: We don't all live in cute-sy little urban neighborhoods with tons of bistros and cafes..many of us live in areas where you can go fancy or you can go fast food - or you can stay home..also, I've never lived within 2 hours of a whole foods..what we call 'organic' actually comes from someone's garden (like a real person, that we know- not a smiling hippy on the package)
I think she was simply trying to convey that maybe in our quest for healthier ideals - we've become more wrapped up in the poshness of it than we meant to. We've left some groups out. I have a hard time taking someone seriously when they're simultaneously judging me for feeding him non-organic stuff and scowling at my baby for being too loud in the all-organic cafe.
The truth is, poor families don't eat at McDonald's 10 times a week either - they eat at home - because they're poor. And I agree - McDonalds has made an effort as far as offering salad and apples, etc.
http://heyyourememberme.blogspot.com
posted by : that girl on 10/9/2008 at 2:09 PM Flag For Abuse
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I agree with karmamama, but would add the deep dark secret that Chipotle is owned by McDonalds and their veggie burritos have, like, a thousand calories!
Still...what I like best is eating at home anyway. Me and my husband are both great cooks, we can let our 16 month old ramble about and eat when and how she wants. We even put bites of food on her Stokke high chair seat, let her walk around up to it and call it the "tapas bar"...
We like to have people over instead of go out right now, although we do venture out to the casual, independent, non fast food resto now and then. We took her throughout France to restaurants and were fine.
We don't do fast food joint because we dont support the mass killing of cows.
posted by : callmeasnobidareyou on 10/9/2008 at 2:09 PM Flag For Abuse
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WSP -
These are some "Kids Eat Free" spots that my friends and I have tried with success:
Broder's Southside Pasta Bar - Monday afternoons
D'Amico Cafe - Sunday afternoons
Keys Cafe - Sunday brunch
Green Mill
Bar Abilene
Mall of America has some deal where kids eat free on Tuesdays at a bunch of restaurants...
Also I sometimes get an order of carry out chow fun or some other noodle dish from Rainbow Chinese (on Nicollet) that we can all share for under $15 (that's five of us.)
Lunchtime - sometimes when school is out I take my three kids to a coffee shop and they split a big sandwich and get chocolate milks. I suppose that's around $5, maybe $7...
posted by : BBBGMOM on 10/9/2008 at 2:17 PM Flag For Abuse
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In Minnesota, the McD and BK have my biz, it's all about playland!!!
Where else can they play and I can have a latte with my galpal while the babies hoot and holler and nobody frowns and telepaths that "please take your screaming kid and find another place to be" look. In spring and summer there are a thousand parks, but from halloween to easter, it's PLAYLAND!
posted by : lalahem on 10/9/2008 at 2:18 PM Flag For Abuse
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Man, does this piece hit the spot. I have had some of these same feelings since becoming a parent and it, too, has had me thinking back to the times as a child when I enjoyed McDonald's. You're right. It was a rite of passage! Go see Star Wars - McDonald's. Superman and Superman II - McDonald's. Little League game - the dinner of young athletes afterwards. You guys probably don't have Big Boys' out on the east coast but in the midwest this is another rite of passage, a neighborhood vibe chain restaurant. A sit down place, but very friendly.
You can eat sensibly at McDonald's and Big Boy's. I order for the kids off the dollar menu. My finicky eater fills up on nuggets, my good eater does nuggets and apple slices - we have only a handful of fries, split among us. Ditto Big Boy's - nuggets and mac-n cheese for the kids and meanwhile dad can give them oyster crackers, nachos and jello from his trips to the salad and soup bar.
I don't want to have to think about this too much. Your piece really struck a chord with me.
Sincerely,
Anonymous but frequent reader Charlie
posted by : charliekkendo on 10/9/2008 at 2:28 PM Flag For Abuse
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With my baby, I've lived in Texas (and not in Austin, either--Killeen, rather), and out in the sub-suburbs of New York. And I don't have any problems with taking my toddler out to restaurants. We are always complimented on how well behaved she is, the usual compliment being "I did not even realize there was a baby here until we were leaving."
We're not foodies, but she's eaten at lots of ethnic restaurants. In fact, the "ethnic" restaurants seem to be very baby-friendly in my experience. If you ask her about her favorite food, she'd probably say cookies or pizza, but she also loves hummus and skordalia and mango lassi and pad thai.
At any rate, if your baby is able to handle it, I think you can go to independent restaurants--though I would probably avoid any restaurant that charges three times as much for its atmosphere.
posted by : CaliMama on 10/9/2008 at 2:30 PM Flag For Abuse
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Eating fast food in moderation no matter what your age will not make anyone sick, fat, ill or unhealthy. Anyone that says otherwise is either an outright liar or just plain ignorant. We live in America...most of us probably were born and grew up here too...McDonalds is a big part of childhood. It was always a treat for me growing up (probably 2-3 times a month) and it's the same for my little boy. Trashing McDonalds may be fun, but it's not their fault if people eat there all the time and get fat as a hippo...it's the fault of the person stuffing their or their kids' faces with this stuff all the time. McDonalds is utterly without guilt here...in fact they've tried to healthy up their menu more than any other fast food restaurant. Good for them.
And anyone saying buying organic foods doesn't cost MUCH more is out of their mind. It's at least 1.5-3x more expensive than my local grocery store chain.
It's a nice luxury to be able to feed your kid organic food all the time, though there isn't much evidence that an all organic diet is in ANY way better than a similar, non-organic diet. Just a fad.
posted by : mrb on 10/9/2008 at 2:38 PM Flag For Abuse
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Plus there's also the convenience of the drive-thru.
posted by : Shannon1234 on 10/9/2008 at 2:48 PM Flag For Abuse
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Actually, thatgirl, the author bio says the author lives in Cambridge, MA, which is a major city and full of all a city has to offer foodwise. Struck me as weird and foolish an urban mama got herself a stroller too big for the indy bookshops and stores Cambridge is full of; what's wrong with a little umbrella stroller? I live in Boston, too, and I wouldn't dream of trying to go anywhere in a city with a jogging stroller.
I hardly consider myself into obsessively healthy eating or anything, and I could give a sh*t about organic, but there are zillions of options in a city more exciting and just as fast as American fast food, as hand and KCP have pointed out. And I don't think it's cute that a two year old's favorite food is hot dogs and mac and cheese; I think it's a parent who has convinced themselves that's what kids will eat. My child certainly doesn't eat everything we give her, but she will try just about anything. We have always fed her exactly what we eat, and she eats it or doesn't. And that's fine by me; I don't like every food on the planet either.
The author sounds like the type that will move out of the city by the time her child reaches kindergarten age because she thinks she'll be murdered or end up very very stupid should she set foot in an urban public school. And good riddance to her if she can't acclimate to the environment; people trying to live a surburban lifestyle in the city are just irritating.
posted by : Annoyed on 10/9/2008 at 2:50 PM Flag For Abuse
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I think people make too big of a deal out of McDonald's. I go there (or actually ChikFila) like once a month or less with my toddler (think roadtrips) and it is a special treat to her to eat "chickens and frenfrees." 90 percent of the time we eat at home and have healthy, sometimes organic meals (you don't have to get everything organic to be healthy btw). But I don't consider myself a badparent because every once in a long while my kid eats greasy fries an dchicken nuggets. Actually I think shunning places/foods/etc so vehemently places too big a focus on food - which is a problem all its own.
posted by : BalancedinVA on 10/9/2008 at 2:59 PM Flag For Abuse
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I just had a McDonalds meal and now my belly aches!
posted by : nuggetize on 10/9/2008 at 3:06 PM Flag For Abuse
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Annoyed - that is odd! I just read the author's bio, too, expecting that she lived in a farflung exurb. But Cambridge, MA??? Zowie - there's food, coffee, books, etc. all over the place! I am taken aback by the fact that she lives in such a vibrant urban setting and claims to not have access to non-fast-food options. I don't even know where a McD's is in Cambridge... I've eaten many a good, cheap, noisy meal in Cambridge (starting as a mere babe on mama's lap and up thru college.) I love going back there.
posted by : BBBGMOM on 10/9/2008 at 3:16 PM Flag For Abuse
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We don't have a lot of options for eating out with kids where we live. We don't even have a Starbucks in either of the towns nearby. Bet you didn't even think that was possible, did you? I love to take my kids to the big M. We go about 2x a month. My kids are 2 1/2 and 3 1/2. They eat the apple dippers, about two bites of hamburger and then they are off to play, play, play in those giant germ-y gerbil tubes. I don't worry much about the quality of the food, because very little of it is eaten in the rush to go play. Meanwhile, my husband and I have a real conversation over some coffee, which is not too bad. Its a rainy day sanity saver for me. Judge away, I don't care.
posted by : McDonaldisjustallrightbyme on 10/9/2008 at 3:50 PM Flag For Abuse
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I thought this was a great article! We hit McD's when we're on the road because they have those play areas a lot of times. When it's cold, rainy or whatever and you've still got 4 hours in the car ahead of you, the place is a very welcoming stop!! When the weather is good, we try to get something a little healthier and stop at a rest stop where our son can run and play, but man.... McD's is easy and fun for the kids. I think it's fine in moderation.
posted by : tiffer on 10/9/2008 at 3:57 PM Flag For Abuse
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karmamama, the recent decreases in sales of organic food is tied DIRECTLY to the downturn in the economy. I mean, come on... what else could it be? Organics were doing a thriving business until the economy went south. In my local supermarket, what was once an entire isle of organic stuff has been reduced to a single bin.
And not feeding your kids organic does not mean that people are choosing to "feed their kids crap." An occasional trip to McDonald's hardly qualifies as parenting sin.
posted by : Knitty on 10/9/2008 at 4:47 PM Flag For Abuse
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I thought this was hilarious! Seriously? Starbucks attendees giving you dirty looks? Hilarious! We take our todder to all the old haunts we used to. We sometimes go earlier and sometimes we take the food home, but all in all, we're good. He's never had a "hunger" melt down because we actually try to pay attention to him and feed him before that point. It breaks my heart to see and hear kids crying and acting up from fatigue and hunger. It's not rocket science. Carry some snacks in your purse.
We don't go to romantic restaurant all together. Heck - I don't want to have to look at the child when I'm trying to make googly eyes at the big man.
I'm not anti-McDonalds, I just think there are better options. Before the baby, I'd eat McDonalds twice a year or so. Sadly, my niece, who's 12 and weighs 165 lbs actually knows the menu by heart. That's why I won't be going to McDonalds any time soon.
posted by : Anonykitty on 10/9/2008 at 5:04 PM Flag For Abuse
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Knitty makes an excellent point. Once folks have less money there is less to spend on way overpriced organic foods that have not been proven any healthier (other than the consumer may "feel" healthier for eating them) than conventionally grown foods. What a scam...I simply can't believe so many fall for it.
The key to healthy eating is a mix of ALL foods, with a concentration on fresh fruits and veggies. Buying organic is supporting local farmers and a more sustainable way of growing crops. It's not feasible to think of organic foods feeding the world, but if you have the extra money and it makes you feel good, go for it!
Just don't proclaim how much healthier or better it is than conventional.
posted by : mrb on 10/9/2008 at 5:15 PM Flag For Abuse
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It comes down to money for me too. The $1 menu is awesome for cash-strapped parents. Chipotle does not cost "a couple of bucks" and the massive burritos are just as many calories as a big mac. Look into it.
I eat at McDs rarely, but a friend of mine mocked me for testifying about the new southern fried chicken sandwich. Whatever dude. It's tasty. Quit judging me. A value meal won't kill me if I eat one every two or three weeks.
posted by : ticktock on 10/9/2008 at 7:18 PM Flag For Abuse
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I support the ideology behind buying locally, but I think it's been taken too far. For one thing, here in Brooklyn buying locally always seems to mean buying from someone who opened their cute little shop in the last year or so and not the local independent supermarket that's been there for twenty years (and is about to go out of business because its new neighbors want to know the provenance of every kumquat and gala apple they buy). For another, small local businesses can't afford to give their employees the same wages and benefits as larger chains. Not that all chain stores do -- but some do, and to call them all evil is painting with too large a brush. And for the last, many local shops get their supplies from the same distributors as the larger chains -- so what is the difference?
I am as fond of precious little coffee shops as the next person, but when I have my toddler with me, I go to Barnes and Noble. It's easier with the stroller. There's a huge kids section. And frankly, I also like that it's not full of people exactly like me and mine.
There's nothing wrong with a little junk in moderation either, and if the chicken mcnuggets cost $1 instead of $5, all the better.
posted by : Maujer on 10/9/2008 at 9:02 PM Flag For Abuse
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Wow, what a range of reactions in these responses. I agree with the posts that say to eat in moderation...and what that means to me, is to consider the bigger picture of our kids' diets. Yes, fast food is not the healthiest food, but once in awhile (couple times a month) is fine. Even as adults, don't we occasionally indulge in foods/beverages (think alcohol, a big fat steak, hot fudge sundaes, etc.)? And yes, buying organic/local is important to me, because it does support local farmers. I buy organic when it is feasible, especially certain types of produce.
I do have fond memories of McDonald's when I was a kid in the 70s/80s (birthday parties, happy meals in a box with a golden-arch handle, going to eat there as a special treat), and then grew cynical about fast food starting in my 20s. That cynicism epitomized when I watched 'Supersize Me'. But now being a parent, I do see the conveniences of getting a meal for my older child and I without ever leaving my car. And, as somebody else has stated, there are healthier choices (think salad without all the slicing/chopping/preparing).
I have to disagree with an earlier comment, however, where it was stated that McDonald's is 'utterly without guilt'. I'm opening another can of worms, but McD's aggressively markets to impressionable young children; turn on the TV for 5 minutes to a kids channel and you'll see. Even if you don't let your kids watch TV, they eventually see (and begin to identify) their friends' toys, billboards/signage with the golden arches. McDonald's unfortunately has their sh*t together; they definitely know how to reach their target audience.
That being said, it is increasingly difficult for parents to impress upon their children a healthy eating lifestyle, but if we consistently give them a balanced diet while they are young, hopefully that mentality will stick with them until adulthood.
posted by : Carol in Ann Arbor on 10/9/2008 at 9:23 PM Flag For Abuse
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My daughter is allergic to eggs, dairy, soy, and peanuts, so fast food is pretty much out for her. Having her has actually made us eat healthier in general. But after working 40+ hours per week and making an insane commute, Taco Bell just seems great once in a while. It's cheap and depending on what you order, not too bad nutrition wise. Our town doesn't have any tex-mex places, so I either make it myself or get taco bell. If you look at the calories, fat, and portion size, it's actually healthier than Chipotle. That being said, I grew up eating fast food on the regular and have had weight issues my whole life. I don't want that for my kid, so I think the solution is too teach responsible, healthy eating and moderation.
posted by : MomofBeans on 10/10/2008 at 7:06 AM Flag For Abuse
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Ha ha! This reminded me of a conversation I was having the other day with some other moms about how now we GET drive-through. I used to think they were just for lazy people, and now I wish every restaurant had one... well, not really, but I do wish there were some healthier drive-through options for those days when it's 4 p.m., you still haven't eaten breakfast and you have a kid wailing in your back seat...
posted by : ProvidenceRI on 10/10/2008 at 8:07 AM Flag For Abuse
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This is yet another way for moms to compare each other. You either do McD's or you don't. It's like politics; no matter how vehemently you argue your point of view, you absolutely will not change anyone's mind. People are pretty much set in their ways. I happen to fall into the category of moms who do McD's. And I won't even sheepishly say we do it in moderation. We do it frequently. So what! If you have the opportunity and money to frequent other places, good for you. If you're like me and you don't, NO SHAME! Live and let live, and stop getting your panties in a wad when someone makes different choices than you.
posted by : lighten up on 10/10/2008 at 10:39 AM Flag For Abuse
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Carol in Ann Arbor - the "utterly without guilt" comment was mine. I'm curious why you think McDonalds should feel guilty for advertising their products to their target audience. They are trying to sell their product just like ANY other company that you might consider "good" such as Whole Foods (lots and lots and lots of yummy but very unhealthy options there: overpriced bakery goods, pizza dripping with cheese, that chicken sonoma salad everyone loves...full of mayonaise and calories). Yet I bet you wouldn't say Whole Foods should feel guilt.
McDonalds has made great strides to healthy-up their menu with CHOICES. What you choose for yourself or your kids is YOUR choice...the guilt or lack thereof rests with the customer.
Not to mention that McDonalds' millions of shareholders and employees and employees' family members would likely disagree with your implication that they should not advertise their products.
I know you agree overall, but just wanted to point that out. Why should they feel guilty?
posted by : mrb on 10/10/2008 at 11:23 AM Flag For Abuse
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Crack dealers are just trying to sell their product also.
Any problems with them doing their marketing at schools?
At some point, we as a country, may realize that money is not the end all and be all. What happened to good taste, quality, creating an enjoyable society to live in?
Any values out there other than money? Or, as long as someone is working hard trying to make a buck, have we as a country developed to the point where we will agree to whatever methods/means they use?
Beautiful.
Also, the money justification of McD's is just bogus - unless the argument is based on the dollar menu. The rest of the menu is no cheaper than plenty of healthy/reasonable options.
posted by : Are you kidding me on 10/10/2008 at 11:39 AM Flag For Abuse
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Are you kidding me - Seriously. Are YOU kidding ME? Comparing McDonald's advertising to a crack dealer at a school. How stupid.
posted by : mrb on 10/10/2008 at 11:52 AM Flag For Abuse
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By the way, Are you kidding me, money IS the be all and end all of society. Whether it's dollars, marks, rubles, sacks of grain, gold coins, plants, wolly mammoth bones...the unit of trade and exchange is what supports, drives and changes human society now and since forever. Get used to it.
posted by : mrb on 10/10/2008 at 12:07 PM Flag For Abuse
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Now we're equating McD's with crack dealers? See what I mean...panties in a wad. You food nazis need to get over yourselves!
posted by : lighten up on 10/10/2008 at 12:11 PM Flag For Abuse
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Your argument was that since they are trying to make money, their means are ok - please correct me if that is incorrect.
Thus, I drew that argument to a more extreme case to tease out the limits of that argument.
My point being that solely because a company is trying to make money, they can do it however they want; may not be acceptable to folks.
It does not equate Macdo with crack dealers.
Regarding dollars and rupies. I love money. And understand your comment. However, I believe that we as individuals and as a society owe it to ourselves to question how important is money relative to :
- our health
- the health of others
- our happiness
- our environment
My claim/belief is not that money is not important. It is. Should it be important? Yes, money should be important to us as individuals and to society.
But should we let it run our lives to the point we allow it to? And at the expense of the other items I listed to the point that we currently allow in our society?
Maybe a better balance?
And if we hold money up in importance above all other criteria, then we should also realize that when we are hit with mortgage crises that we have seen over the past year, high obesity rates, high diabetes rates, it is our own values as a country that allowed it too happen.
Those are all caused by companies trying to make a buck. And trying to provide their shareholders with maximum returns quarter over quarter.
posted by : Are you kidding me on 10/10/2008 at 1:10 PM Flag For Abuse
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Well, we disagree, but not surprisingly -- millions of Americans think the way you seem to.
I put personal responsibility way before anything else. It's not McDonalds fault their food makes people who eat too much of it fat. It's not their fault that they make a tasty product that kids enjoy eating when their parents let them stuff their faces with it until they are disgustingly enormous and diabetic before they're 10. (Unless, of course, McDonalds was lying about the nutrition content to disguise unhealthy food as healthy. But this is not the case.)
And what is wrong with advertising to your target audience? You know what, people of ALL ages eat at McDonalds...go in one and see who's there. So, they advertise to children, teenagers, young adults, middle agers, old folks, black, white, hispanic, asian. They're trying to sell their safe, legal product. No complaints from me. Every single company on earth does the exact same thing...singling them out because you feel their "means" aren't ethical is unfair. What's your beef so to speak with McDonalds?
posted by : mrb on 10/10/2008 at 1:18 PM Flag For Abuse
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You know, frankly, I get a lot of mileage out of packing a little lunch cooler with cheese sticks, apples, water etc. and most places I stop for coffee etc. don't care a whit if I let my tot eat homemade food - they get it. A fully stocked lunch cooler costs way less than a happy meal. McD is not at all a necessity (except for road trips, which are once or twice a year, max.) McD is a guilty pleasure for the kiddos. I don't buy that anyone "needs" McD, but I don't begrudge anyone who opts for it - whatever their reasoning. Besides, McD's advantages for the kids do nothing for me as I cannot eat McD without becoming nauseated.
posted by : BBBGMOM on 10/10/2008 at 1:40 PM Flag For Abuse
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What an uncomfortable situation to be in! Let's not forget that there is something between fancy organic and fast food.
posted by : simplymom on 10/10/2008 at 5:09 PM Flag For Abuse
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"Disgustingly enormous and diabetic before they're 10."
???
The world is full of round little children, but I've never seen a child's body that I'd describe as disgusting. Please keep in mind that you're discussing people who aren't buying and preparing their own food before making the judgment that their bodies "disgust" you.
And as long as I'm at it, the repeated references to how anyone who disagrees with you must be a liar, ignorant or stupid are not exactly calibrated to win anyone over.
posted by : anon on 10/10/2008 at 6:39 PM Flag For Abuse
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Any parents that chastize the author of the article are just another example of how parents have to "one up" their neighbor/friend/whomever. To act like feeding your child McD on occasion makes you a bad parent and that you should always choose edamame or organic means you are a parental snob with no sense of reality. To act like you didn't eat that stuff when you were younger and turn out fine (personality disorders aside) is a joke!! It's like the parents I used to know that kept all sugar away from their kids.... guess what? when their kids become old enough to make more decisions for themselves they went overboard on sweets because they were never taught balance. Everything in moderation, any extreme is harmful.
posted by : summitgal on 10/10/2008 at 10:06 PM Flag For Abuse
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I believe in parents' right to make decisions... however, they need to be well-informed decisions. Comparing McD's to crack may be over-the-top. But transfat is no joke. Transfat is addictive: the brain reacts to it the same way it does to opiates (heroin).
Can a person find transfat at McD's? Yes.
Can a person find transfat at Whole Foods? Yes.
I hope before any big decision parents look into the research and make a decision from there. There's a lot of evidence-based studies that link transfat and additives (which are very common at fast-food type chains) to diabetes and other health problems.
posted by : informyourselffirst on 10/12/2008 at 2:03 PM Flag For Abuse
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We have been careful to make sure our three and a half year old doesn't know recognize the mcdonanlds logo, or cocacola for the matter. And we haven't fed him fast food, but then again we live in new york and there are not many fast food chains here. And there are abundant healthier options some of which are fast.
Having said that, I think the holier-than-thou attitude adopted by some above is ridiculous. We all have paincakes -- occasionally even the non-whole-grain variety (horrors!) -- not to mention cupcakes at birthday parties and the occasional strip of bacon. I would rather hit a greasy spoon than McDonalds, personally, but it's not at all healthier.
I think a foundation of healthy eating habits, with occasional moderate intake of fattier foods as a treat, is the ideal. Parents who get all pious about it will probably have teenagers who rebel and eat horribly for a decade.
posted by : chattydaddy on 10/13/2008 at 10:41 AM Flag For Abuse
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"Disgustingly enormous and diabetic before they're 10."
???
The world is full of round little children, but I've never seen a child's body that I'd describe as disgusting. Please keep in mind that you're discussing people who aren't buying and preparing their own food before making the judgment that their bodies "disgust" you.
And as long as I'm at it, the repeated references to how anyone who disagrees with you must be a liar, ignorant or stupid are not exactly calibrated to win anyone over."
Sorry you got offended, anon. Toughen up.
posted by : mrb on 10/13/2008 at 11:31 AM Flag For Abuse
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I live in a small town in the upper Midwest. Not a lot of options here beyond fast food and TGI Chiligans. My husband and I are transplants and prior to moving here we lived in great food towns with lots of independent and local options. Somehow, two years into parenthood, we've managed to avoid fast food for the most part. For me it is a no-brainer. McDonald's food IS crap, even their healthier options. Ditto for BK, DQ, KFC, etc. And while children can eat this food in moderation and turn out just fine (I did), there is still something to be said for having priorities and making informed choices. We manage to eat out regularly at a few local places that are family friendly. When we want a more elegant food experience, we hire a sitter. And when money is tigh(it often is) we stay home and cook. Our daughter has developed a love and appreciation for a variety of foods due mainly to being involved in the food preparation process at home.
I buy organic when I can. I believe it's a healthier option overall. The author said something about being really worried about kids who mechanically utter the word "organic" when talking about food. How is that scarier than kids who mechanically chant "chicken mcnuggets" or whose nutritional mainstays are chicken fingers, hot dogs, burgers, and nuclear mac n cheese?
posted by : Nik on 10/13/2008 at 9:58 PM Flag For Abuse
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Flamers: I think the author was using a big of hyperbole presenting McDonald's as the only acceptable choice, rather than suggesting that she'll only take her child to McDonalds. Her point was that although many of us (myself included) felt like we could maintain much of our old lifestyle after the baby came, at some point we have to admit that everything is different. Even restaurant choice.
I understand your plight of finding a TRULY family-friendly restaurant. Having high chairs isn't enough. My favorite restaurants with Little Man are nice and LOUD, even if they don't look like toddler places at first glance.
And don't forget the magic words: Take Out (the other magic word is Crockpot, but that's for a different article). If you wait to eat until after the kid(s) are in bed, you can have a bottle of wine and an On-Demand movie with your takeout and it's not unlike a date.
posted by : EG on 10/16/2008 at 2:47 PM Flag For Abuse
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People,People,the key to everything is moderation. My child loves edename has been eating indian and thai food since she was 18 months and still loves a happy meal. She's six now and if you ask her where she wants to go to eat is usually Chinese. She knows that Mcdonalds is a treat. She knows it's not going to make her run really fast, and it's like eating dessert for a dinner. That's how we explain it. She has learned that choosing a mix of foods will make her play longer and get smarter. This is important to her(really just being the fastest runner). By the way I am a mom who has a therapy jar, I know I can't be perfect just do the best for my child and family every day. Stop fighting among your selves that your way is the right way for everyone. It is the best for your family and that is all that matters.
posted by : emzmom on 10/17/2008 at 9:00 AM Flag For Abuse
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I'm not a mother yet (I'm 23 years old), actually I'm quite reluctant at the moment when it comes to having children. It's a long and boring story, but it all reduces to the fact that the only children I have a close relationship with are monsters. Therefore, I'm not so sure about wanting to have children at all.
Ok, I might not be a mother but I sure do have many nieces, nephews and young cousins. I see my older cousins and aunts making one mistake after another. One the one hand is my aunt who's a lazy slob and won't lift a finger when it comes to take care of her children. For her is so easy to take her kids to Mickey D's every single day after school just because she hates cooking. Needless to say her 7 year old son is downright obese and that her 3 year old girl is going down the same path. Someone wrote about moderation when it comes to fast food. I agree wholeheartedly with such statement. This woman doesn't know what moderation is about. She thinks McDonald's is everyday food. I have fond memories of my mom or my aunt taking me on saturdays to McDonalds. Not every saturday, maybe twice a month. Or as I got older, Pizza Sleepovers with my friends. Fast food was a special thing and it still is. I read and saw Fast Food Nation too and I saw Super Size Me but I think it all comes down to one thing: DO THE RIGHT THING. You can't expect McDonalds or Burger King to tell you not to eat because after all, they are not mom and dad, they are a companies that are in to make profits. You have to choose whether is right for you or not. If you think is right, be moderate about it. The last time I went to McDonalds was about 2 months ago. Come to think about it, since it's lunch time I might as well indulge on a Big n' Tasty :)
And well, on the other hand, I have a cousin who has a 5 year old boy raised in a super duper organic healthy environment (or so she says). He's the most miserable little boy I've ever seen. His mom's idea for a good breakfast is scrambled egg whites with boiled spinach. He's not allowed to eat any sugar or chocolate at all. He can only eat bland oatmeal when it comes to cereal. Oh yeah, and with soy milk. I'm not THAT restrictive when I'm in a diet. Do I think she's doing the right thing? No. I think she's crazy and egotistical. She doesn't want to make a special meal for her kid, so he ends up eating whatever junk she eats. I think the boy is rather pale and weak for his age. I'm not completely against organic food but sometimes I do think they are plain highway robbery. Still, considering the times I've been to an Organic Supermarket, I've found some kid-friendly options that I even buy for myself. Therefore, I do believe some trendy-indie places might eventually cater to the crowd with kids. It is a matter of having vision: if you don't want to loose your customers that have kids, have special days or hours.
Too much rambling from my part, but I think my point of view as a girl with no kids is valuable too.
posted by : Florsie on 10/20/2008 at 5:06 PM Flag For Abuse
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I'm going to have to agree with this parent 100%. I live in California and YES its all about healthly this and organic that but the reality is unless you have the 24 hour nanny watching your children while you talk it up at a cafe with your other friends with kids with nannys there is no realistic way you can afford these "Healthly/Organic" places, nor are they in any way children friendly and carry food kids would really like. Both my husband and I are full time working parents and if we had to pick 2 places to take our 2 year old son it would have to be McDonalds and Chilis !! Service is quick and the food is great !! Its not just about the food but also the quality time you're spending with your family. Moderation is a factor too. I still do come home and cook dinner, but as a working parent we all have those days when you just want to take a break from cooking or don't have time to.So I can realte to this parent.
posted by : Califronia Mom on 10/21/2008 at 1:21 AM Flag For Abuse
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Good for you! Nothing wrong with eating at McDonalds as long as it's not a daily habit. Not everyone has the money or time to eat organic, healthy, etc. all the time. Nor does everyone have easy access to those places. Seriously, this new generation of parents have so much pressure to keep their kids in a sanitized bubble. Chill out folks!
posted by : artemis on 10/21/2008 at 8:34 PM Flag For Abuse
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Contrary to what a previous poster said, my son is allergic to peanuts, nuts, wheat, eggs, dairy, oats, and about 10 other things, and Burger King and Wendy's are the only places that are ok for us to eat. They will make a plain burger, no bun for us every time. And my son eats the fruit side, some french fries (not a whole package) and juice or water. Their manufacturing line approach and limited choices are what make it safe for us to go there. We don't go often, but it they are the ONLY food we can eat other than what I make, and there are some times when we are out without a pre-packed lunch and it saves us. Moderation is everything. In the end, fast food isn't supposed to be for every day any more than nice cream is. They'll both kill you if you eat nothing else.
(Yes, we go to Whole Foods all the time, but their prepared foods are not safe for my son.)
posted by : BostonMom on 10/21/2008 at 8:34 PM Flag For Abuse
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hmmm. Tonight we lingered too long at a pumpkin patch near our house. Our two year old announced she was hungry. There was a McD's with a playland within eyeshot, and - with this posting in the back of my mind - I thought why not give it a try?
Here is why not. Even if the play equipment hadn't been too big for a two year old, it was FILTHY - almost as if no one had ever tried to clean it. And it stank in a way I can't really identify - perhaps some combination of sweat and illness. I'm telling you, I'm not some clean phobic mom at all, but this is NOT going to be our rainy day play solution.
Regarding the food, well, my daughter has seen fries before, and sure, she enjoyed them. But even her tiny serving is a lot of salt for one little body. The service was not bad, just completely impersonal - the only way you could call it child friendly is if completely ignoring a child is child friendly.
As a bonus, the homeless guy sitting a few feet away kept the religious station on his handheld radio cranked up just far enough that it sounded like a lively baseball game. (We just couldn't sit in the playland, because of the stomach turning smell, so we were just outside the door of playland, in the main restaurant)
If this has turned into some sort of referendum on whether you feed your child fast food, well, we already do. But we haven't gone here, until now. And we won't go again. Because it's bad.
posted by : anon on 10/27/2008 at 6:09 AM Flag For Abuse
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MRB wrote, "It's not McDonalds fault their food makes people who eat too much of it fat. It's not their fault that they make a tasty product that kids enjoy eating when their parents let them stuff their faces with it until they are disgustingly enormous and diabetic before they're 10."
I BEG to differ, MRB! The marketing efforts that corporations such as McDonalds undergo is not only deliberate, but borders on criminal! Back in the '80s, "Super Size" was launched out of the observation of people eating "typical sized" portions (for example, a cheese burger or two and a large french fries - which back then were the size of today's small). These fast-food industry scientists concluded that these typical diners would continue to eat more food had it not been for social norms that would label them as being a "pig." When the whole concept of super sizing menu options came across the board room table, most execs said, "No way! They'll never go for it. That is just too much food!" But the gave it a go regardless. Supersized meals have helped fuel the obesity epidemic in our society.
It IS McDonald's and other corps that pour million of dollars into food science to make their food "tasty" - added chemicals and additives that make their breads sweeter, beef flavorful and fries greasier and saltier.
I personally believe in moderation with everything, but parents and caregivers need to understand that by your child's first day of kindergarten, the majority of his/her long lasting food preferences and eating habits are established! If you can't suck it up for those precious and formative years of parenting by setting healthy examples, then don't be surprised when your child becomes a statistic of obesity, diabetes, hypertension, heart disease... which are all on the rise in our children today.
posted by : julip on 11/1/2008 at 2:30 PM Flag For Abuse
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Julip is right on saying that this is Not the Truth:
MRB wrote, "It's not McDonalds fault their food makes people who eat too much of it fat. It's not their fault that they make a tasty product that kids enjoy eating when their parents let them stuff their faces with it until they are disgustingly enormous and diabetic before they're 10."
McDonald's is Completely at Fault for what they serve and should Bare the Responsibility for it, too. Kids (and adults) get fat eating the food at McDonald's - that cannot be denied.
McDonald's doesn't have to serve HFCS-based soda's - they CHOOSE TO.
To lilmissyny - McDonald's is Not Fine in moderation, because your definition of moderation isn't 1-2 times per year dining on Fast Food.
Finally, Jennifer Blaise Kramer does score FULL Bad Parent points. I guess shes happy that her child is now on the road to obesity and diabetes. She seems glad that this was an easy choice.
posted by : Jack in Santa Rosa CA on 11/2/2008 at 9:18 PM Flag For Abuse
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I disagree that the economic downturn will mean the demise of organic food sales or the overall "expensive" healthy-living lifestyle. Thing is, this rough patch is going to make Americans who are already more and more educated about their health and choices even more resourceful -- they'll grow their own veggies; more community gardens and produce co-ops will pop up. Yes, organics are expensive. At my house, I've resigned to forgo the nail salon, skip a haircut, etc. with cage-free eggs and Annie's mac-and-cheese in mind. It's not a huge deal. You can rearrange your budget and rethink your wants and needs if having a healthy stock at home is a priority.
I want my son to feel good, as good as he possibly can, and grow up knowing the BEST way to live and maintain his health. I feel good knowing I can give him that with a little creativity.
The bank of experiences indigenous to a healthy, curious lifestyle is what really differs from making choices based on convenience or familiarity: Stopping at a farmer's market tent to let your kid sample persimmon for the first time, going berry-picking as a family, making a special soup with fresh ingredients for a sick friend together, frequenting locally-owned dives and trying something new each visit ... these are the food memories I want my son to have someday, even if my own involve celebrating games won and concerts sung with Mickey Ds.
Occasional fast-food? No, not for us. I don't know why I'd spend my money on a burger and sugar-filled ketchup that'll make me -- and my one-year-old -- feel overtired and crappy after that quick rush.
The Mickey Ds crack comparison? Maybe. Addiction could be defined as doing something you know isn't good just because you crave the accompanying feeling (pride for carrying on the tradition? really? sugar rush, at least.)
I work a full-time night job at a newspaper and my husband manages a costume shop during the day. We live in a college town veering toward McBurbia with no 24-hour healthy spot close by. I'm a crappy cook. If we can eat healthy and have the time/patience to eat and shop local, there's a good amount of hope for those who feel like its impossible.
When we uprooted ourselves from nature and started doing things the new, "easy" way, we also uprooted ourselves from each other. Julia Butterfly Hill recently said this in an interview, and it really hit me. The source of a lot of the stress that drives us to the drive-in comes from thinking we have to do everything ourselves. I really believe that if we learn to work on building our communities and participating in them, healthy living would come naturally. Sounds granola, yes, but just think on that. What better life could we give our kids?
I'd challenge those that think fast food isn't that big of a deal to read Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser (http://www.amazon.com/Fast-Food-Nation-Dark-All-American/dp/0060938455), sleuth some of the obesity stats and facts in the book, and be able to defend your decisions. 'Cause they do matter. Even occasional decisions.
posted by : marigoldTX on 11/17/2008 at 1:44 AM Flag For Abuse
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RE: ItsAllJustFood's "The bright spot about the economic downturn is that as it deepens, I won't have to listen nattering about orgaaaanic and whoooole-food and heeeeealthy"
Hmmm...The bright spot for me will be that I won't have to watch you waddle into my coffee shop. Because you'll be dead from a heart attack or cancer--or too heavy to leave your home after years of donuts and Big Macs.
posted by : Topanga09 on 12/28/2008 at 3:13 PM Flag For Abuse
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Fact is for a lot of people it isn't about healthy or not-healthy - it's about do we get to feed our kids every day or every few days - because buying the healthy stuff is more expensive and we can't afford it for everyday food. I'm not there, and most people here aren't. But I remember living on Top Ramen, or boxes of cheap mac & cheese. Maybe those people shouldn't have kids, but the fact is some of them do. I for one am glad the fast food industry has made an effort to offer healthier options, you really can't say that sliced apples are a terrible food choice. I don't eat fast food everyday or even every week and I believe the key to raising kids who eat healthy is example and education. However, I know a lot of people who occasionally eat fast food who are not giant unhealthy diabetics. You can eat at home every day and eat unhealthy foods. It is about moderation and balance. That said, not all kids are all about the chicken nuggets, a friend of mine's kid loves sushi (he's five I think). However in some towns cool cheap ethnic choices aren't an option either (my mom's tiny hometown springs to mind). I'm lucky, in my town it is. I'm also lucky that I don't have a food budget of $100 a month. I'm also lucky that if I did want to grow something edible I have almost 2 or 3 feet of space to do that in, people in tiny apartments may not. Yeah there is an obesity epidemic in the US. But like the occasional chocolate bar, the occasional cheeseburger was not the cause. It is caused by constant diets of unhealthy food and large portions coupled with little to no exercise. I guess in this issue it's good for the pro-occasional fast-food people to have thick skins, and the anti-fast-food people to enjoy feeling smug and superior.
posted by : mchaos on 1/14/2009 at 2:39 AM Flag For Abuse
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Good morning. I have often wished I had time to cultivate modesty... But I am too busy thinking about myself.
I am from India and learning to read in English, please tell me right I wrote the following sentence: "Find and book cheap airline tickets with fly."
Regards :P Fraya.
posted by : Fraya on 3/30/2009 at 3:05 PM Flag For Abuse
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I think that it's really sad when you feel like you have to choose fast foods just because you have kids. I think obesity is now an epidemic and starting children early on the so called "healthier" McDonalds is sick. Healthier foods are more expensive, organic or not, but it is a matter of priorities. I know many people in my own family who sustain themselves not just on fast foods, but also prepackaged sugar filled garbage, but yet they can afford cable with all the upgraded channels. For many people if they just consider what their priorities are when they decide how their paychecks will be allocated, I'm sure healthier foods could be an option.
posted by : Chris on 4/12/2009 at 9:22 AM Flag For Abuse
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I really enjoyed reading this! We've been hitting a mix of chains (Target about twice a week) and local faves. I was really bummed, though, when our favorite local coffee shop, which I had always thought of as kid-friendly, had to dig out an ancient high chair for my son from underneath a stockpile of canned drinks and my son's occassional soft chime for a Cheerio was met with stares from the hipsters on their laptops (why is it that the people who claim to be the most open-minded and accepting are the most judgemental?). Now I only go when we can sit outside and he can stay in the stroller.
posted by : kitese on 4/28/2009 at 11:07 AM Flag For Abuse
