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Good Lord,
I have never seen an article so whiny. You consent to have the circumcision, but then ridicule what it means to your husband. You regret the entire thing, but you let it happen. You don't get to consent and then bitch about like they forced you to do it. Get over it.
posted by : spartic99 on 3/29/2007 at 1:17 PM Flag For Abuse
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If you are really so against circumcision, why did you let it happen? Before I was engaged, I told my husband that I could not marry him or have children with him if he insisted that our boys be circumcised. Every time I change my son's diaper and see him the way he was intended to be, with an intact foreskin protecting his glans and keeping it sensitive and uncalloused, I'm glad I stood up for my beliefs. I'm glad that I followed the guidelines of the AAP, who are no longer recommending routine circumcison. If you visit www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org, you'll find information that could have helped your husband understand why this barbaric, antiquated ritual must be stopped. Do you really think that the psychological "trauma" from a boy seeing his circumcised father naked is worse than the real, physical and psychological trauma caused by cutting off one of the most nerve-packed regions of a little infant's body when he's only 8 days old? How would you have liked it if your clitoral hood had been cut off when you were 8 days old?
posted by : YiannisMom on 3/29/2007 at 1:49 PM Flag For Abuse
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Fortunately, unlike the comments written by "Get over it", Kris' husband was wise enough to discern her consent as coming from a deep respect, love, and acceptance of him for what this ritual signifies to him. My advice to the above writer is "Get over whatever is causing you to be so judgemental and critical!" Why are you so angry?
With so many 'mixed' marriages taking place today, I would recommend this article to anyone who is conflicted about the pros and cons of circumcision. She does point out that there may be medical advantages to the procedure, in addition to the cultural traditions. In contrast to some of the circumcisions I witnessed in a hospital, this baby was surrounded by loving family and friends who were immediately available to hold/comfort him.
posted by : melody on 3/29/2007 at 2:04 PM Flag For Abuse
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I am angry because we're violating children's rights when they are at their most vulnerable in the name of ritual and tradition. If more mothers in 'mixed' marriages who are conflicted about the pros and cons of circumcision actually did research about the origins of the practice, about the things that can (and do) go wrong during circumcisions, or actually looked at what the mohel/pediatrician did during the entire procedure, I think there would be less support for circumcision. As far as her son having a lower risk of contracting HIV- I'm going to teach my son about safe sex practices so that he'll rely on condoms, and not the lack of a foreskin to protect him from HIV.
posted by : YiannisMom on 3/29/2007 at 3:10 PM Flag For Abuse
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I am angry because we're violating children's rights when they are at their most vulnerable in the name of ritual and tradition. If more mothers in 'mixed' marriages who are conflicted about the pros and cons of circumcision actually did research about the origins of the practice, about the things that can (and do) go wrong during circumcisions, or actually looked at what the mohel/pediatrician did during the entire procedure, I think there would be less support for circumcision. As far as her son having a lower risk of contracting HIV- I'm going to teach my son about safe sex practices so that he'll rely on condoms, and not the lack of a foreskin to protect him from HIV.
posted by : YiannisMom on 3/29/2007 at 3:28 PM Flag For Abuse
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I never thought circumcision was a big deal, until I had my own boy. Once I laid my eyes upon my newborn son, I knew right then and there that no one would cut him. It wasn't even up for discussion with my husband, who could go either way; the foreskin was staying intact, period.
To hell with tradition, why traumatize your infant? I just don't get it . . .
posted by : katemilo on 3/29/2007 at 5:10 PM Flag For Abuse
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Melody,
I am not angry and I am not judgmental as to anyone's
decision on whether to circumcise or not. However I was put off by this
article because its tone was so awful. Her consent had nothing to do
with respect or love, if it did she wouldn't have sobbed an apology to
her friend who was against it. If her decision stemmed from love or
acceptance she wouldn't feel the need to write such a dramatic piece,
if she really felt okay with it she would just move on. I am a Jew in a
mixed marriage with a Catholic. I had my son's bris on our dining room
table and it went fine. I didn't look, but I also wasn't self
medicating and then writing articles about how conflicted I feel about
it. If she didn't want to do it she shouldn't have let it happen and
they should have addressed this issue prior to having a child. I resent
the underlying tone of this article that insinuates that she was
against all of it and others made her do it. She should have stood up
for herself if she didn't want it to happen. It is these kinds of
articles that give religious circumcision a bad name.
posted by : spartic99 on 3/29/2007 at 5:19 PM Flag For Abuse
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I liked your article, it was well-written and very real.
I don't understand why so many people get so worked up about appearance of someone else's baby's genitals.
As for the pain/trauma argument... I remain unconvinced that it's much different than getting shots, having a wet diaper or painful gas. My daughter spent three days in ICU for jaundice when she was less than a week old -- and despite several procedures that make circumcision seem like a haircut, she's fine. I completely understand the maternal instinct kicking in and not wanting your baby to be hurt -- believe me, I was hysterical during the icu incident -- but that's part of motherhood just as much as a little discomfort can be a part of life.
posted by : Maujer on 3/29/2007 at 7:10 PM Flag For Abuse
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I'm kinda stunned by the responses thus far; as I read it, the article was a very personal, emotional piece that tried to communicate the mixed feelings surrounding such a controversial topic. I mean, trying to strike a balance between the cultural needs of a family (to which a new baby now belongs) the strong feelings of new motherhood and the personal beliefs on both parents is NOT easy. The article injected a bit of hyperbole for the sake of levity (it was kinda cute and funny at times and no I don't take the part about the vicodin seriously... lighten up!) But whatever, that's not the issue. All the parents here who disparage someone else's parenting decisions really ought to be ashamed of themselves. This was clearly not an easy thing for Kris to do, and she had the guts to share this with everyone. It was a great article, and didn't make me think any less of circumcision as a religious practice. If anything, it painted it in a very loving, humane way, while still describing the 'other' side of the argument. You may not have made the same choice. So what?
posted by : ChrisH on 3/29/2007 at 7:56 PM Flag For Abuse
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I can totally relate to a lot of this article. My son's bris was one of the worst days ever. But my hubby and I are both Jewish, and while he's more traditional than I, we decided to uphold our religion. It may have been a celebration for others, but having 40 people at our house to celebrate post-partum, and I decided next time I'm doing it at the hospital. The rabbi can come if he wants.
http://selfmademom.net
posted by : selfmademom on 3/29/2007 at 9:45 PM Flag For Abuse
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Amen, Chris H. Why is everybody taking this personal essay so personally? As a cut male who will always be shrouded by feelings of wistfulness and outrage about the seemingly automatic decision my conservative parents made from a hospital bed forty years ago--that is, their unambivalent mutual consent to have me unveiled like every other good Catholic boy, I say, Who am I to say? The author here is having her say, and she didn't ask for the approval of any other parent here to write this piece. Suppose my mother wrote an essay about my circumcision--I would be the first to shout, Kudos to you, Mom, that you have a narrative to share and that it (one would hope) compels me! This piece is quite compelling in the way it details the great conflict, pain, love, and respect (self- and otherwise) surrounding the making and executing of a decision that needs to be decided, and within the context of the uneasy but loving alliances and concessions that make up a family with traditions, to boot. This is a piece of literature--not an "article," as some unsophisticated reader refers to it above. It's meant only to convey an experience from the point of view of a mother whose feelings and convictions are not absolute--that's the story here; it's not striving to please all or to purport a political agenda. To all of you smug, perfect parents fetishizing your little ones' precious glandes, all safe and tingly and warm in their luscious foreskins, I.issue you a challenge: Let's hear your story! One would hope it's half as compelling.
posted by : seanjm on 3/30/2007 at 10:54 AM Flag For Abuse
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Amen, Chris H. Why is everybody taking this personal essay so personally? As a cut male who will always be shrouded by feelings of wistfulness and outrage about the seemingly automatic decision my conservative parents made from a hospital bed forty years ago--that is, their unambivalent mutual consent to have me unveiled like every other good Catholic boy, I say, Who am I to say? The author here is having her say, and she didn't ask for the approval of any other parent here to write this piece. Suppose my mother wrote an essay about my circumcision--I would be the first to shout, Kudos to you, Mom, that you have a narrative to share and that it (one would hope) compels me! This piece is quite compelling in the way it details the great conflict, pain, love, and respect (self- and otherwise) surrounding the making and executing of a decision that needs to be decided, and within the context of the uneasy but loving alliances and concessions that make up a family with traditions, to boot. This is a piece of literature--not an "article," as some unsophisticated reader refers to it above. It's meant only to convey an experience from the point of view of a mother whose feelings and convictions are not absolute--that's the story here; it's not striving to please all or to purport a political agenda. To all of you smug, perfect parents fetishizing your little ones' precious glandes, all safe and tingly and warm in their luscious foreskins, I.issue you a challenge: Let's hear your story! One would hope it's half as compelling.
posted by : seanjm on 3/30/2007 at 11:02 AM Flag For Abuse
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Amen, Chris H. Why is everybody taking this personal essay so personally? As a cut male who will always be shrouded by feelings of wistfulness and outrage about the seemingly automatic decision my conservative parents made from a hospital bed forty years ago--that is, their unambivalent mutual consent to have me unveiled like every other good Catholic boy, I say, Who am I to say? The author here is having her say, and she didn't ask for the approval of any other parent here to write this piece. Suppose my mother wrote an essay about my circumcision--I would be the first to shout, Kudos to you, Mom, that you have a narrative to share and that it (one would hope) compels me! This piece is quite compelling in the way it details the great conflict, pain, love, and respect (self- and otherwise) surrounding the making and executing of a decision that needs to be decided, and within the context of the uneasy but loving alliances and concessions that make up a family with traditions, to boot. This is a piece of literature--not an "article," as some unsophisticated reader refers to it above. It's meant only to convey an experience from the point of view of a mother whose feelings and convictions are not absolute--that's the story here; it's not striving to please all or to purport a political agenda. To all of you smug, perfect parents fetishizing your little ones' precious glandes, all safe and tingly and warm in their luscious foreskins, I.issue you a challenge: Let's hear your story! One would hope it's half as compelling.
posted by : seanjm on 3/30/2007 at 11:09 AM Flag For Abuse
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Circumcision is not "a decision to be decided" by anyone but the child himself. The reason I get so angry (and no, I am not "fetishizing my little one's precious glands", you sicko) is because circumcision is such an egregious violation of human rights. I understand that this was a piece of literature meant to convey the author's individual experience, but given the opportunity to comment on the subject matter, I did. Like it or not, circumcision is a hot-button topic among parents and parents-to-be. If even one woman expecting a son reads this message board, and is compelled to do some research (http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org and http://www.nocirc.org are good places to start) before blindly giving in to tradition or her husbands selfish desire to have his son look just like him, then some good will have come out of it.
posted by : YiannisMom on 3/30/2007 at 11:40 AM Flag For Abuse
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Circumcision is not "a decision to be decided" by anyone but the child himself. The reason I get so angry (and no, I am not "fetishizing my little one's precious glands", you sicko) is because circumcision is such an egregious violation of human rights. I understand that this was a piece of literature meant to convey the author's individual experience, but given the opportunity to comment on the subject matter, I did. Like it or not, circumcision is a hot-button topic among parents and parents-to-be. If even one woman expecting a son reads this message board, and is compelled to do some research (http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org and http://www.nocirc.org are good places to start) before blindly giving in to tradition or her husbands selfish desire to have his son look just like him, then some good will have come out of it.
posted by : YiannisMom on 3/30/2007 at 12:11 PM Flag For Abuse
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Sorry for the multiple posts!
posted by : YiannisMom on 3/30/2007 at 12:12 PM Flag For Abuse
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Sorry for the multiple posts!
posted by : YiannisMom on 3/30/2007 at 12:23 PM Flag For Abuse
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YiannisMom, male circumcision is not a violation of human rights. Sorry, but how do you even get there? Now I am curious.
posted by : Maujer on 3/30/2007 at 1:24 PM Flag For Abuse
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Excuse me,
posted by : seanjm on 3/30/2007 at 1:34 PM Flag For Abuse
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Excuse me,
posted by : seanjm on 3/30/2007 at 1:35 PM Flag For Abuse
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Taken from http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,59639,00.html
Indeed, for decades, international law has come down against routine circumcision. For example, the U.N.'s < target=_blank>Universal Declaration of Human Rights
(1948) speaks of the "human rights" involved in "the ethics of
circumcision," which are "the rights to security of person, to freedom
from torture and other cruel and unusual treatment, and to privacy."
Circumcision is also a moral issue. The organization < target=_blank>Doctors Opposing Circumcision
decries the procedure as "painful," "tragic," "contra-indicated," and
states "that no one has the right to forcibly remove sexual body parts
from another individual." DOC claims that circumcision violates the
physician's Golden Rule — First, Do No Harm — as well as all seven
principles of the A.M.A. Code of Ethics.
As medical
associations one-by-one refuse to support routine circumcision, the
procedure is losing ground — medically, morally, politically, and
legally. This process is being sped along by aggressive groups like < target=_blank>The National Organization of Circumcision Information Resource Centers,
a "non-profit educational organization committed to securing the
birthright of male and female children and babies to keep their sexual
organs intact."
The ensuing debate will help define medical ethics for a new generation.
posted by : YiannisMom on 3/30/2007 at 1:42 PM Flag For Abuse
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(OK, something is going haywire with this thread. Let me try again): Excuse me, YiannisMom, but if you'd read this essay with a bit more sensitivity and not used it as a catapult for your own vitriol, maybe you would consider that this author did not "blindly give in to tradition..." But it seems that you're blinded by the stones you cast, anyway, and more interested in pathologizing than having a healthy debate on the subject. This is not an essay about deciding, it's about dealing with the consequences of a decision.
P.S. I actually support your position about circumcision, but that doesn't matter--in this case I must defend the writer.
posted by : seanjm on 3/30/2007 at 1:50 PM Flag For Abuse
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The debate stopped being healthy a while ago ("To all of you smug, perfect parents fetishizing your little ones'
precious glandes, all safe and tingly and warm in their luscious
foreskins,").
Maybe I spend a little too much time on Fark.com, but I'm used to threads going slightly off-topic and vitriol being spewed when hot-button topics are written about. If there's a message board on this site about circumcision, I'll gladly check it out.
posted by : YiannisMom on 3/30/2007 at 2:07 PM Flag For Abuse
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Yeah, but "You sicko"?? Now where have I hear that epithet lobbed ad nauseam into the ether before? Oh, yeah--Fox News. Maybe you should spend a little less time on that site too.
posted by : seanjm on 3/30/2007 at 3:06 PM Flag For Abuse
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That was the first time I'd visited the Fox news website, and I only visited it to read an article about circumcision. I obtained the link from www.mothersagainstcircumcision.org.
Your comment about fetishizing my son's genitalia was sick.
posted by : YiannisMom on 3/30/2007 at 4:52 PM Flag For Abuse
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The comments are fascinating to read. Chris H & Sean, I particularly enjoyed reading your responses.
I hope to see more of Kris' writing in the future. She's gutsy and real.
posted by : melody on 3/31/2007 at 12:10 PM Flag For Abuse
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In case anyone has (not) noticed, this is not an article about whether or not one should circumcise his or her child, nor is it an essay about whether or not Kris should or should not have circumcised her son, Zev. If you look long and hard enough on the Internet, you will find an organization for and against ANY and EVERYTHING in the world. For goodness' sake, there's a website about the dangers of mayonnaise. You can think what you want about circumcision, but this was not an essay about circumcision at all. This was a personal exploration about a woman's whole world changing and the emotional and physical roller coaster a woman's body and mind undergoes after having a baby. Don't be so literal! If Kris wanted to write about her thoughts and feelings on a "controversial" topic, she would have written a research paper. It was a beautiful story about the first of many difficult wife/mother/daughter/daughter-in-law/friend (as those are all the roles she has to play in her life now) decisions she had to make and how she dealt with it. I agree that this piece is gutsy and real, and I can't wait to read her next piece. Keep it real, Kris!
posted by : sarahek on 3/31/2007 at 8:28 PM Flag For Abuse
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Great article, Kris! I love your expressive writing and detailed style with hyperbolic humor even when while relating something stressful.
Anyway, rest assured that your son will be fine. The toughest part of being a parent is seeing your child suffer, hearing the crying, seeing blood, etc. But fortunately, the next best thing to not having pain happen is having no memory of it, and at his age he'll have no memory whatsoever of the trauma.
Like that day that will come when you decide to wean him off round clock feedings to schedule him to sleep all night through. You'll have trouble sleeping through his crying, maybe even feel a bit of parental anguish, but it too shall pass and be forgotten. And you'll all be better off for it in the end.
Kindly disregard the nasties who feel compelled to pile on and condemn you for agreeing to go through with the circumcision. Most of them are nutbag activists who get eaten up over this as their pet cause. They trawl the Net every night for new forums related to circumcision to pick fights and slam their same old talking points. And 98% of them are women, i.e., persons who don't have a schwanz who know not of the untold suffering of which they speak.
posted by : JKirby on 4/2/2007 at 1:56 AM Flag For Abuse
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Since my wife and I are not bound by any religious edict or tradition, I am pretty sure our conversations were nothing compared to the ones had by people juggling multiple religious practices and cultural traditions (author included). After much reading and debate, we decided not to clip either of our boys.
I wanted to respond to those who have left feedback that I feel downplays the difficulty of juggling what a parent wants for his/her child and what that parent's religion and cultural traditions want for their child. It is not easy. I am unsettled by the general overall opinion expressed on this thread by both pro- and anti- circumcision parties that it is easy to make a decision on this and other matters relating to your child.
I guess the author, my wife, and I are the only parents that have regretted a decision we made regarding our children that seemed right at the time but might not have been "as right" in hindsight.
posted by : youngsterNYC on 4/8/2007 at 7:51 AM Flag For Abuse
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Sick. Sick and wrong. People aren't against this because they care about the appearance of someone else's child's genitals; it's because they care about infants being mutilated. Who cares if the author herself needed time to heal afterward? She wasn't the one who had part of her body lopped off. At a party, no less. It's illegal to do this to baby girls, using any method, for any reason, and in the name of any god. It's a crime that boys aren't protected by these same laws.
posted by : Mami Dearest on 6/8/2009 at 4:55 PM Flag For Abuse
