Smackdown: I Don
Progressive, feminist, supposedly sex-positive parents are, of course, pretty well united against the absurd excesses of abstinence-only education and the religious no-sex-until-marriage frenzy.
What continues to amaze me though, is how little the positions they do take really vary from the underlying values of the abstinence worshippers.
As a parent, I keep running into a nudge, nudge, wink, wink understanding that even though we know it
I would really like to agree with you. Because of the way I was raised, I have a hard enough time dealing with sex with me personally. All the shame, threats of being hellbound and disownment were thrown at me when I was growing up from my family, church and school. I won’t be having kids for a while yet, but I know for sure that I don’t want them to have to deal with the same issues I had. I know that if my children do choose to have sex as a teenager I will be hurt, but I’ll just have to deal with that on my own.
Don’t you think that it is ironic that many people (religious or otherwise) oppose pre-marital sex claim that the individual will always be emotionally hurt by it. And yet these are often the same people who tell kids that sex is shameful and immoral. Seems like a self-fulling prophecy to me.
Miriam,
Yes, I agree that the “of coure you’ll wait” blanket is really harmful to open communication. And I can agree that later is not always better, just maintaining that later is sometimes better and not wanting to dismiss the value of that.
This isn’t all about interactions that might cause trauma, but for the part that is: trauma happens when the stress is greater than the sum of internal and external coping resources available. You make a very valid point about the value of still being in a supportive home while experimenting — to the extent that the teen is able and willing to actually accept the support, it’s a real increase in their coping resources. But I do also think that the equation is likely to balance more favorably for the kid if they make it to their late teens instead of their early teens. They’ve just had more time to develop their internal resources.
As you know, some of the differences in our perspectives about this come from the specifics of my history. I have a gut feeling of danger around this topic that I want to protect my kid from, and I don’t let it rule me but it doesn’t go away. As many survivors out there can attest, we have hard work to do if we want to avoid passing our reactions on to our children. I think that many folks default to conservative positions about kids and sex because of just such reactions, and while it may successfully protect some kids, I don’t think it’s the best solution in the long run.
“It’s not safe for anyone because it wasn’t safe for me” is not a generalization I will allow myself to make. But if you want the collaboration of folks who have had harder experiences than yours, I hope you will not generalize too easily in the other direction either.
Laure: I think because I never drank/partied/etc. I don’t associate the two. Most people in my high school who did “party” would probably assume that those of us who didn’t also didn’t have sex, but that’s not always the case. But the dynamics you talk about are clearly very real.
I was only focused on daughters because it’s what people traditionally get worked up about. I agree that boys ought to be just as careful.
Interesting discussion. I’d like to add my point of view.
I grew up in an urban, working -class neighborhood. (Mostly minorities and immigrants.) When I was growing up, there was a very thick line between the kids who had sex/drank/partied, etc., and those who didn’t. Those of us who wanted to go to college and better our situation were the ones who didn’t. For most of us, our parents didn’t absolutely forbid us, but they made sure we understood very clearly what would happen if we would have a baby (or make someone else pregnant). The risk was just too high for me. There were quite a few girls in my HS who got pregnant, and I think that really served as a cautionary lesson.
Sure enough, when we went to our 10 year reunion, those of us who were “boring” were the ones with successful careers. By success I mean having the kinds of choices our parents didn’t have. I was able to take some time off when my son was born, and then find a job very easily when I wanted to go back part-time. My mom and dad both had to work just to pay the bills. Also, one time my dad was laid off, and it took him so long to find another job. He always said he didn’t want that to happen to me. The first time I told that that recruiters actually call me to hire me, he actually cried.
In my adult life, I have to admit I have met people who grew up in wealthier areas who had sex/drank/partied as teens and were still able to be successful in their lives, but I don’t think this is the case when you don’t start with money.
Now that we are more affluent, I worry about how to teach my son the same kinds of things my parents taught me. (And I agree with Ellen – boys have to worry at least as much as girls, since ultimately they don’t have the decision on whether or not to keep the baby.) I think the main thing is to understand and accept the consequence of what you do.
And I apologize for grouping sex with drinking and partying. When I was growing up, these things did go together. I’m sure it is not the same for everyone.
Becca:
I made the “her father” crack just because people have this idea in their heads about how men still have this gut feeling of proprietary interest in their daughter’s virginity. Not because I was trying to count family votes.
I am not at all sure that I can be a good enough parent to keep bad things from happening to my kids, sexual or otherwise. Not at all.
Yes, those negative attitudes are out there anyway and we need to acknowledge them. I think this needed to be said in part because it’s awfully hard to address those screwed-up attitudes with teens when the “but of course you’ll wait” blanket hangs so heavily over the conversation.
Given that, I still don’t necessarily believe that in order to develop the kind of healthy experience of sex you and I both want for our kids that later is *always* better. Those screwed up ideas don’t magically go away, and in some cases I think they gain power with time.
However, I do of course, care whether my kids have sex for the right reasons and not until they are ready to do so. I will NEVER tell them “I don’t care what you do.”
The “I don’t care” part was directed only toward the idea that I should somehow feel deeply that the teen years are automatically off limits.
OK, since you made a point of saying that her father agrees with you, I’ll make a point of saying that her other mother does not. Not fully, anyway. I agree that kids should have the choice and parents shouldn’t be judgemental about what they do, and that it’s not always harmful for teens to be sexually active. But “I don’t care”? Hardly.
Here’s one problem: When you say,
“It
I have four sons and I will discourage them from having sex before they are adults. My reasons have nothing to do with their self-esteem, squeamishness, prudishness, or anything of the sort. Sex leads to pregnancy, plain and simple. Birth control does not always work. And teens often don’t use it anyway, due to the way they naturally think, “I’m invincible”, “it probably won’t happen”, etc. Their brains aren’t quite up to thinking things through. If my son has sex, he may get someone pregnant. If he gets someone pregnant, he has no control over what happens next. He may have a child, or not, he may have contributed to an abortion. Basically, every time he has sex, he puts his life in the girl’s hands. The questions I will ask my son are: “Do you trust her that much? Do you know what she would do if you accidentally made her pregnant? And how do you feel about that?” These things are so important.
I agree in general, but I do think it matters what age. I think 14 is very different from 18. I have two daughters, 20 and 10. With the older, we gave her information and encouragement to wait until she was ready and not to be pressured. In return she discusses much of this part of her life with us, even if she does not always take our advice. Most of her choices have seemed reasonable for her, in our eyes.
I hope it goes as well with the younger one.
Treespeed: I basically agree. There’s a world of difference between having the info and not. I just think there’s a difference between helping kids figure out how to know when they are ready and telling them that we know they aren’t until such and such a time. It might not be as “obvious” as we think.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
As the father of a young girl I totally agree. I don’t care if she has sex, as long as it’s responsible and on her terms. I just don’t want her getting pregnant or hurt.
The big difference in the right’s abstinence only education and most lefties requests for waiting is that the lefties supply their sons and daughters with all of the relevant safe sex information. There’s nothing wrong with kids being given the obvious reasons for waiting until THEY are ready to have sex. Where the religious wackos fall down is not planning and educating their children for what happens when they do decide to start having sex.
Just adding to the chorus of kudos. What an excellent, sane way to think about this issue. Your daughter is lucky!
My husband and I completely agree. And this: “It
I was beginning to feel like my husband and I were complete freaks for feeling this way – especially since people look at our daughter, look at us, and make those same “wink-wink, nudge-nudge” comments.
Thank you for posting this so publicly. I hope more of us can start speaking out about the ridiculous sexual double-standard that still exists.
I absolutely agree.
RIGHT ON! I’ve been saying this for years, and now that I actually have a daughter of my own, I believe it even more.
Thanks!
Amen, sister! I have boys and I don’t want to hamper them either in their teens. There are more important things to worry about: teaching them to respect women as they respect themselves is objective number one. After that, positive sexual relationships will be a piece of cake.
This is so right on. Also how many parents now (like myself) did not wait until marriage to have children. Can I really tell my daughter to wait until marriage without making her coming into this world seem less amazing that it was? With out making her feel like a mistake? Also lets touch on some reality. 98% of people have sex before marriage.
I think I love you. Totally agree. I would hope my daughter would wait til she is 17 or so before her first experience, but I think it is healthy to fully explore one’s sexual identity before settling down. I sure wish I had. Be informed, be safe and have fun.
Sorry Shannon, I’m with Miriam on this one — very well said!
beautifully written! ..and I couldn’t agree more. I’ll be passing this on to a few people.
Thanks!
You are so RIGHT ON! But, man, are you going to get a ton of grief! Good luck.
Hear, hear! Speaking as the father of a young daughter, I say I think we underestimate our children if we can’t trust that they find ways to have active and healthy sex lives while they are teens. Biology gives us the tools and desires at a pretty young age. The role of parent should be helping kids find positive ways of handling this. Expecting our children to deny it in frustration doesn’t seem like a good alternative.