Babble Talk: The Cult of the Bad Mother
In her controversial Dispatch this week, Katie Allison Granju wonders if it may be time to re-stigmatize certain parenting behavior. She wonders, “if everyone is a “Bad Parent,” then where is the line between reasonable and unreasonable maternal imperfection?”
Most interestingly, she challenges the bad parent confessional on class lines: “The mostly-white, mostly-college-educated mothers (like me) who pen “momoirs” about things like letting their third grader navigate public transportation sans adult supervision get appearances on talk shows. However, a poor, minority or immigrant mother who made the same parenting choice would more likely get a visit from Child Protective Services.”
Of course, the concern (expressed by some commenters) that shame was not ever a good thing and should not be revived is reasonable too. Even the worst parent any of us knows may well be fighting uphill battles we don’t know. A little discernment and offers of support would probably go further to help a “bad parent’s” children in 99% of cases than a heavy dose of shame.
But like Katie, I sometimes wonder if the “Bad Parent” phenomenon has led us to such a relativist state that when we do admirable things for our children, we have to hide them, for fear we’re not “bad” enough. And the assumption that doing these admirable things is somehow a judgement against those who don’t do them is one of the main ways this problem shows itself.
Every mother who decides to breast feed for a year (or three) is not, per se, a “nipple nazi” judging mothers who use formula. (People who throw the term “nazi” around so lightly? Definitely deserve judgement.) A mother who makes her own baby food is not, per se,”smugly” judging mothers who feed out of jars. (Can we call a moratorium on the word “smug” for six months?) A mother who forbids television is not, per se, a “sanctimommy” judging families that spend snuggle time on the couch watching their favorite shows. (Whoever invented that fake word, is hardly mother-friendly.)
But lately, if you make any of the former choices, like as not you’ll feel the need to hide them, lest you be seen as having made your decisions over and against those of your fellow moms. Better you should just go ahead and get the new flatscreen to make sure no one accuses you of being judgemental.
Feed your kid McDonald’s all you want. The stuff will never pass my children’s lips under my watch (doubtless it will when my back is turned). But you cloth diaper and I’ll poison the planet (and possibly my children) with disposables. I can’t stand the thought of yet more laundry. I let videos “babysit” my kids for up to two hours a day, some days. But my kids eat less than a teaspoon of refined sugar per month.
The fact is, we all weigh what we value most, what we can let slide, what we can afford, what we need and what we enjoy — or at least don’t mind — doing and what we loathe doing. And we make our judgements–about how to live our own lives–accordingly.
My kids just do not react well to sugar. It literally changes my older daughter’s personality within minutes for very much the worse. In fact, I suspect if she ate a fairly normal amount of it (the amount that doesn’t harm most kids) she’d be eligible for an ADHD diagnosis. My younger child doesn’t share her extreme reaction, but she doesn’t get sugar either, because that wouldn’t be fair. If I bring my own snacks to a play date at your house, it doesn’t mean I think you’re evil for giving your kid cinnamon grahams. It means sugar doesn’t work for us.
I made all the baby food for both my kids. I found it easy–even fun–and my kids loved, loved, loved it. The savings helped us spend our money on other things–some “good” like organic groceries, some “bad” like cable television. And it was my call, having absolutely nothing to do with someone else’s desire not to spend an extra split second in the kitchen if she doesn’t have to. Just like my losing battle with laundry keeps me from cloth diapering.
In a way, I guess I agree with Katie here. When everyone’s a bad mother, no one is. Mostly though, I think that’s a good thing. There really are very few parents so bad that they deserve to lose their children. But I also agree with Katie that the whole “Bad Parent” thing may be overplayed. Especially when the good things we choose to do for our kids end up making us feel bad–or not bad enough, as the case may be.
I agree with almost all the above posters, one way or another. How about everyone try to find the shade of grey in your own disagreements here?
I know many parents who have made parenting choices that they’re uncomfortable with. Some handle it by attacking others who they feel have a better situation and the luxury of the “better” choice (example: f/t working parents who “wish they could stay home” but don’t want to give up their huge house with a heavy mortgage). I think Crunchy Mama has a point when addressing these parents – if you’re unhappy with your situation, there are probably other choices out there if you’re willing to be creative and sometimes make difficult compromises.
Which is in many ways the same thing others are saying – prioritize what’s really important to YOU. Make the choices you’re comfortable with.
The pressures to conform to mainstream values or to some other set of values (attachment parenting, for example) are strong, not just because society will hold us accountable for our children’s future behavior but also because we’re almost all winging it and really want to do it “right”. That makes it hard to brush off criticism.
Shannon, I really appreciate this post. I’m frequently tooting this horn in my circle of parenting peers, and it’s a hard row to hoe. Thanks for being a voice against the Mommy Wars.
Great post.
That is why the center square on my Mommy Wars Bingo card says “By defending your own parenting priorities (breastfeeding, natural foods, no TV) you are attacking mine!!!
People who don’t have confidence in their own decisions are threatened by others decisions.
Shannon- I love your analysis of my piece.
As for guilt, I think it’s worth listening to – it provides one “discernment tool” among many – but it can’t be the primary decider in how you parent, or how you live your life because sometimes it’s terribly misplaced. But I do think that guilt isn’t something we should completely turn off or ignore because it can often be a useful bellwether in our lives. People who are always guilty and ashamed are unhealthy. People who never feel guilt or shame are unhealthy. The trick – and I struggle with it daily – is in that “middle way.”
- Katie Allison Granju
I am just here for the cookies.
Shannon, CrunchyMama said something about guilt. For a while there it was an interesting conversation about the different ways people react to and/or identify guilt. I don’t think it was really related to your very well written and reasoned post.
Sometimes comment threads take on a life of their own. Sometimes that’s a great thing. sometimes.
I wonder how long Crunchy Mama/Sam (and I am with the others who think they are the same troll) would continue this crap if we all ignored it?
LOL… I think what this thread needs is a few more defensive, shrill posts from Sam. Come on Sam, accuse someone else of not reading your posts! You can start with me, because I didn’t. You are freaking NUTS.
I think it is just plain weird that this turned into a conversation about guilt. Who said anything about guilt? My post was about feeling judged by others which is not the same thing as guilt.
But I’m with everyone who says that guilt is a feeling, not a fact. All the definitions people are tossing around do include that basic idea–that guilt can be felt whether one is actually guilty of anything or not.
BettyWu said:
“”it doesn’t have to be that complicated, just mash up an avocado; and I totally agreed with her. It should be that much work, and if you find that it is then you are putting way too much effort into it.”
Hee hee. So…if you don’t do it, well…you should be doing it. If it’s not something you want to do or find it takes too long…that’s not just an invalid argument…you’re “Doing It Wrong.”
Ladies and Gentlemen! Please give Sam a big hand for encapsulating the entire problem of guilt and judging, etc. (and about 7 insults) into TWO SENTENCES! Truly impressive.”
Betty, did you even read what I wrote, this is a statement that another poster made about making your own baby food. It is not a judgment at all, and it did not come form me, though I did agree because we made our own baby food and found it to be very simple (please jump all over me now). The post was in relation to an article about making your own baby food, and some of the commenters found it to be incredibly labor intensive, and were complaining about it, this commenter said they were putting to much effort into it, and to get a grip, it did not have to be some complicated. Like so many areas in parenting, there is way too much effort put into something that should be easy and enjoyable. Getting a grip is an important thing to do every once in a while. I see you are the one judging here, and again, not reading something correctly and taking something completely out of context, and commenting on something you don’t understand. No one ever said you are doing it wrong, that is how YOU took it, and maybe sometimes we DO do things wrong, and we are so uber-sensitive and hyped up that we can’t even acknowledge that. If someone has a better idea for something, I tend to be grateful for having life simplified instead of telling them that they are judging me.
“Guilt is a cognitive or an emotional experience that occurs when a person realizes or believes – whether justified or not – that he or she has violated a moral standard, and is responsible for that violation.[1] It is closely related to the concept of remorse.
In psychology, as well as in ordinary language, guilt is an affective state in which one experiences conflict at having done something that one believes one should not have done (or conversely, having not done something one believes one should have done).”
So yes, odds are that if you feel guilty you have done something you should not have done, it is the nature of guilt and there is a reason why we feel it. You can argue, deny, and make excuses all you want but there is a reason for guilt. If you were honest with yourself you would acknowledge that.
Seriously…you people are up in arms over what crunchy mama said about guilt? Jesus, you people are completely insane. If you are reading judgment into it, then that is your own problem. Some people can come on here with very reasonable opinions and you act like they just told you you are the worst parent in history,and you act totally ridiculous about it. A discussion does not need to just incorporate your views, and if it does not that is not an attack on you, and further more if you can’t take the heat, get out of the damn kitchen! I am not crunchy mama, I don’t agree with everything she or anyone says, but I happen to this time. I hope you all find some internal peace and learn to respect other peoples opinions and thoughts and also learn some very much needed reading comprehension. You read something, take it completely out of context and then act like an angry mob marching through town with your torches yelling “judgment”, when all one person is doing is expressing their opinion, and you are the one’s judging, only you are too blind to see it. And Annabelle, I have said before and I’ll say it again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssC77hapv0g, you troll.
@ CrunchyMama: “If you feel guilty, it’s because you know you can make better choices. So make them. Who cares if someone thinks you’re a good mommy/bad mommy?”
I’m really confused, then, CrunchyMama, about why you spend so much time on this site telling most everyone that they ARE a bad parent. That they make the wrong choices (i.e., choices that aren’t yours). That they SHOULD feel guilty. If you’re all about non-judgment, why in the world do you turn every thread into a whip with which to beat other mothers?
I know plenty of attachment, natural-living mothers. Most are wonderful. And very few of them are as Torquemada about their beliefs as you. I believe you enjoy causing trouble; I believe you enjoy provoking strangers’ anger.
And further, I believe you’ve got some real sadness and rage festering inside yourself. Most zealots do.
I hope you figure out why you need to create trouble in this fashion; and I really do hope you find some internal peace.
Other parents are the #1 reason why I’ve decided not to be one.
Not everyone, dearie. Just you “and” Crunchy, who I fully believe are one and the same.
CrunchyMama: Your lack of psychological insight astounds me. Have you ever considered psychtherapy? Seriously, it’s rare to enoucnter a person as defended and judgmental as you.
Level of guilt is in no way a good barometer of poor parenting, or any misbehavior for that matter. I see people all of the time who make poor choices that are harmful to themselves and others yet feel no guilt about it. I also see people who are extrememly conscientious and thoughtful and beat themselves up over minor infractions. Now that I think about it, you are actually a good example of the former: You repeatedly spout rude, hurtful comments at others, and feel not a tad of guilt about it.
Starting to think that Sam and CrunchyMama are one in the same.
The world is shades of grey. It is not black and white. Therein, lies the problem with trying to reasonably discuss something with anyone who’d believe it is black or white. My own opinion is that it is those who believe the world is black or white that cause the issues for those of us who believe it is shades of grey.
“it doesn’t have to be that complicated, just mash up an avocado; and I totally agreed with her. It should be that much work, and if you find that it is then you are putting way too much effort into it.”
Hee hee. So…if you don’t do it, well…you should be doing it. If it’s not something you want to do or find it takes too long…that’s not just an invalid argument…you’re “Doing It Wrong.”
Ladies and Gentlemen! Please give Sam a big hand for encapsulating the entire problem of guilt and judging, etc. (and about 7 insults) into TWO SENTENCES! Truly impressive.
Crunchy Mama said:
“People hardly ever feel guilty about doing the right thing” – 88 year old Grammy
If you feel guilty about your choices, they’re probably wrong, for YOU, for YOUR family.
If you feel guilty every time you turn on the tube/feed your kid sugar/use disposable diapers/leave them sobbing at daycare, then don’t do it. Make a better choice. It might not be the easier choice, but that’s life.
Guilt is a good indicator that you’re doing something wrong. Who cares what other people feel. How do YOU feel?”
I think you are so right. If you are feeling guilty about something it is because you could have made a different choice. If you are feeling bad about something, like have to work and having to send your kids to daycare, that is different than feeling guilty. Guilt comes from making the wrong choice. When you are a kid and you shoplift some gum, you feel guilty. I think grammy is spot on here, you don’t feel guilt when you are doing what is right for you. It’s semantics, and I think people overuse the word guilt and try to apply to things where maybe shame, or bad, or awkward would have worked better.
“my baby food post exhorting those of who thought it was more work than we cared to do to “get a grip”–yeah, they deserve it.”
Amy, you have taken what this commenter said out of context. She was telling mom’s who were stressing too much over making baby food to get a grip, it doesn’t have to be that complicated, just mash up an avocado; and I totally agreed with her. It should be that much work, and if you find that it is then you are putting way too much effort into it. I think you are a little out of line with this.
Annabelle, you call everyone a troll and you haven’t even been a regular poster. Let’s be civilized here. Crunchy Mama posts a lot, she is not a troll. If you want to find trolls, go find a little troll bridge, but grow up and stop bashing people about this ridiculousness.
Well said, Sheri.
I used to worry about what other people thought about how I parented. Then I found out the only opinion that matters is mine. And theirs, until they are teenagers and blame everything that goes wrong with their life on me.
My biggest hope for my children is that they grow up and become good, happy, thriving individuals who love their lives no matter what path they choose. If they want to become doctors, great. If they want to be garbage collectors, good for them.
All of the “baby stuff” is a matter of personal choice. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again–point out the breastfed, carried in a sling, daycare or child of a SAHM, organic food eating or McDonalds eating kid in a bunch of them at a hs football game. I’m willing to bet a whole house payment that you can’t. And you’d probably be surprised at the results.
I totally agree, Shannon. One of my aunts was a terrific mother to both of her kids. She and my uncle were loving, supportive parents, and by all accounts, did everything “right.” One of their sons is a former Marine and now a nurse. The other is a junky, addicted to crack, and in and out of jail. My aunt blames herself for his situation, but no one else does. He is a grown man who was given all the tools he needed, but made some pretty bad decisions. It is no one’s fault, but his own. And now my aunt has to decide whether to let him stay in their house, where he will steal from them and endanger the family, or walk away and let him succeed or fail on his own. This is the hardest decision she’s ever had to make as a parent, and it makes my cloth or disposable diaper decision look pretty friggin lame. All we can do is give our kids the best tools and hope that they make the right decisions. But they are human beings, and they are hear to succeed or fail, just as we are.
” liberal feminist bullshit let’s all farm our kids out to institutions for substandard care” +1! Awesome trolling there, you got three bing-bing-bing words in a row! Not to mention completely ignoring all the well-reasoned, well-written comments about why mothers might not be “farming out our kids” for our own personal satisfaction… great job! You keep fighting the good fight.
Living next to a (good) Nuclear power plant is probably one of the safest places to live. So long as it isn’t one where Homer Simpson is the safety inspector.
There are lots of issues with nuclear power, no doubt. We need to keep discussing how we use it and whether we want it at all. But these are higher order issues. Nuclear plants where I live don’t just leak nuclear waste.
Living down wind of a coal plant or a steel plant or next to a major highway, that’s another story…
Now back to your regularly scheduled program…
@Crunchy Mama
The dictionary definition of guilt is “the FEELING of having done something wrong or having failed in an obligation”. The fact that a person feels as though they have failed in some way, is not necessarily an indication that they have actually done anything wrong.
A friend of mine was once reprimanded by a complete stranger for feeding her baby a bottle in public. The bottle was actually filled with her own milk that she had pumped before leaving the house, but she still felt guilty about the incident.
Or another example:
There are many gay and lesbian people who feel guilty about their sexuality because they feel that they have failed to live up to the expectations of their parents, church, society, etc. This obviously doesn’t mean that their sexuality is anything to feel ashamed of, they are merely reacting to the pressure that others are putting on them.
And that, I think, is the point that others here are trying to make, that parents (and especially mothers) often feel a tremendous amount of pressure to raise their children in a certain way. And we also happen to live in a society where other people, sometimes complete strangers, feel free to come up to mothers and openly judge them for their actions.
How about we, as mothers, start giving others the benefit of the doubt, instead of judging on first appearances, or always thinking that our way is the only right way?
Crunchy Mama: let’s face it, just because we do things differently from you does not mean we’re always ashamed of ourselves or should be. As one of those Babble “bad parents,” it’s a title I take with tongue firmly implanted in cheek.
Because, frankly, if I didn’t think it was good for my kid, why would I do it? I do, however, do it – and what’s more, I write about it to let other parents know that we don’t have to ascribe to some exacting parenting handbook in order to parent our kids. As Shannon says, we pick what we value most to focus on, and it’s OK to pick and choose your values based on how your family operates, your kids health, their personality, etc. Failing to meet the needs of your family is incredibly subjective. Because families are different.
What needs to change in this society? The idea that making a different choice with our kids is about anyone but us and our kids. Whether it’s breastfeeding or sugar (mmm, cinnamon grahams!), we can share our stories, but they are, in the end OUR stories.
Do we have a budget to send cookies to our commenters? Because I’d like to.
But also, MomOfBeans, your kids may screw up terribly and it still very well might not be your fault–certainly not all your fault. I know you were being tongue in cheek about the Noggin, etc., but I also know a lot of great mothers whose kids just hit the skids anyway and I’d hate for them to feel guilty about it. There are so many factors in our lives and we have to take our own responsibility in it all somewhere too and stop blaming our childhoods, even when they were lousy. But–knock wood–hopefully all of our kids will turn out fabulously!
There’s a difference between feeling bad and feeling guilty. If your child had cancer and needed chemo, you’d probably feel bad, but you wouldn’t feel guilty. Unless you smoked a pack a day inside with them, fed them on processed crap foods and lived next door to the nuclear plant because the housing was really cheap. In which case, your choices may have had some impact on their cancer.
Which is precisely my point. If you feel guilty, it’s because you know you can make better choices. So make them. Who cares if someone thinks you’re a good mommy/bad mommy?
And failing to agree with the liberal feminist bullshit let’s all farm our kids out to institutions for substandard care my own personal satisfaction is all that matters school of thought does not make one a troll.
After reading through more of her posts here, I revoke my comment. Crunchy Mommy is a troll, plain and simple.
Crunchy Mommy, without a culture to tell you what’s “good” and what’s “bad”, how would you know? What if you were living in a culture where only the worst parents inflicted cloth diapers on their child, only sadists denied them sugar, and only the mentally ill kept a spotless house? I can see from the tone of your posts that you’re certain that your “instincts” would tell you that the entire culture was wrong and you’d be the one bright beacon of light for your family, but somehow I doubt it.
Also, there often isn’t a “better choice,” one that’s going to leave us blissfully guilt-free, because all choices have pros and cons. And there are plenty of situations (see the working mom above me) where making the “better” choice simply isn’t possible.
Great post and great comments! In general, my guilt is staved off by the fact that my offspring is alive, healthy, and happy. Even on my most anxious, guilt-ridden days, I can’t ignore that. So I have to assume that we’re doing something right. But if anyone wants to, we can always meet up here in another 20 years and see how all of our children turned out. If mine are a total, depraved mess, please feel free to point out that I shouldn’t have let them watch Noggin and attend daycare. But if they are brilliant artists, promising med-students, or just simply, productive members of society, then I do expect props.
“Guilt is a good indicator that you’re doing something wrong.”
In general, I avoid posting comments. However, as a psychologist, I have to call bullshit on the comment above. Guilt is just an emotion – at times it is justified – at other times it is not. Guilt is the direct result of having a conscience (unless one happens to be a sociopath) Guilt is not an automatic indicator of have done something wrong or having made a bad choice. Many, many people feel guilty for things over which they have no control or which are not inherently wrong. The way each person experiences guilt is dependent upon their temperment, their life experiences, their thinking, their underlying belief systems and yes…wait for it…their culture.
Crunchy Mama, I don’t think the issue is “culture made me do it” but more “culture made me feel bad about it.” Guilt is not always such a clear indicator in my experience. Sometimes our children have to experience difficult things – that’s life and it sometimes helps prepare them to be adults with good coping skills and it sometimes just sucks. But I always feel bad when my kids feel bad, even when I think the decision I’ve made is the right one.
My son doesn’t like it that I’m working. I feel guilty that I can’t spend as much time with him or his sister as I used to. But we will lose our house if I don’t work since my husband got laid off and can’t find anything right now. I would be an irresponsible mom if I let the guilt of not being with my kids as much make me change my behavior on this one.
I think mothers have been the center of the family for slightly longer than 150 years, Shannon. And again, I object to your efforts to shove off responsibility for your feelings and by extension, your actions onto something other than yourself (the culture made me do it!).
Every family is different, and had different needs, to be sure. But if you fail to meet the needs of your family, then YOU failed. Blaming culture is such a pathetic cop-out.
Do I strive to be a good parent, a good person every day? Of course! If I yell at my kids, I feel guilty. I SHOULD feel guilty. But it’s how I feel that matters. What someone else feels about how I behave is irrelevant.
There are no pedestals. Just solid ground. And my own two feet.
What a thoughtful piece, Shannon, thank you!
Crunchy Mama:
Or maybe when mothers feel guilty it’s because about about 150 years of our culture has set up The Mother as the single, solitary person responsible for the success or failure of children/grown people (see Freud).
You seem to revel in this exclusive responsibility as many do as long as they feel all powerful for the good. When you slip up–or you don’t, but your kid does–and suddenly everyone renders you all powerful for the bad, you may be sorry you bought into letting yourself be put on a very shaky pedestal indeed.
That is nuts about the babywearing, Amy. I remember once when my first baby was new, and I wore her everywhere (she loved it, I loved it…second baby? total opposite for both of us. By then my back was shot and she hates being confined and always has…but I digress…), a mom friend of mine with a daughter one year older told me her new mom’s group split over the “issue” of slings.
I was floored. Slings are an “issue?” I thought they were just another product to make life with a baby easier. And if they didn’t make life with a baby easier, don’t use them.
And my partner who is not at all in the inside-mommy-discourse loop laughed so hard she choked when I told her some people were “pro binkie” and some people were “anti-binkie.” “People take SIDES on binkies???” she was shocked. She still brings it up and laughs today.
Blissfully ignorant, she is, not trying to eek out her part of our family budget on Mommy Web!
“People hardly ever feel guilty about doing the right thing” – 88 year old Grammy
If you feel guilty about your choices, they’re probably wrong, for YOU, for YOUR family.
If you feel guilty every time you turn on the tube/feed your kid sugar/use disposable diapers/leave them sobbing at daycare, then don’t do it. Make a better choice. It might not be the easier choice, but that’s life.
Guilt is a good indicator that you’re doing something wrong. Who cares what other people feel. How do YOU feel?
This is just so reasonable — are you sure you’re qualified to write about parenting on the Internet
? Because it’s also well-thought-out. And reflective of the many many many shades of gray in family life, or any sort of life, really. That doesn’t get the book deals, Shannon, come ON 
!
I do love the term sanctimommy, though…when someone posts comments like the one on Jeanne’s post about epidurals or the one on my baby food post exhorting those of who thought it was more work than we cared to do to “get a grip”–yeah, they deserve it. And I do think anyone who behaves like that is either a tone deaf asshole and/or covering up deep insecurities about their lives.
But I agree with your point that people can feel wayyyyy too judged when people do things that are “better.” Example: I don’t wear my son. It’s just never been comfortable for me and while he gets lots of carrying and snuggling, I’m not a sling person. I have friends that wear their much bigger children. I don’t feel judged by them,maybe because it’s not something I put a lot of value on one way or another, it’s nice if it works for you. I do, however, feel judged and am likely to judge in return people who brag about how they alllwaayyyss wear their babies and or someone who refers to her kids as “not stroller trained” (no lie, I met someone who did this once). And similarly I have had people start to justify to me that they, say, didn’t breastfeed or whatever and I try to make it clear I don’t care. Most parents are really, truly, trying to do the best they can and I find myself drawn to other others with that same perspective. Because the sanctimommies? They don’t seem to have many friends.