Are Vaccines Dangerous? Why skeptics still oppose required vaccines
Why skeptics still oppose required vaccinations
As kids return to school, parents find themselves drowning in paperwork – my daughter’s high school sent us, among other pieces of paper, an emergency contact form, student behavioral contract, weapons policy handout, photo release agreement, and several health forms, all of which need to be completed and handed in before she can enter the building. My toddler son’s daycare is similar (though the weapons policy there might apply only to plastic swords and the sharper Happy Meal toys).
Among the piles of paperwork, for many families, is a form requesting proof that your child is vaccinated against diseases ranging from chicken pox to hepatitis. While state laws vary somewhat, every state requires that students entering public elementary school be vaccinated against the diseases listed on the schedule set forth by the Centers for Disease Control, or else that their parents provide medical, religious, or (in some states) personal reasons to claim exemption. Private schools, though not required by law to ask their students to be vaccinated, tend to adopt similar requirements.
So how did these regulations come into being, and why doesn’t everyone just follow them? Who’s getting vaccinated these days, and who’s not? And what should you know if you have a kid starting school?
Ever since the first vaccine was invented in the late eighteenth century, laws mandating vaccination have met with opposition, sometimes by religious leaders, sometimes by those who object on political or libertarian grounds, sometimes by those who are certain that vaccines do more harm than good. The term “conscientious objector” first emerged during battles over the 1898 Vaccination Act in England, and in the United States, groups such as the Anti-Vaccination Society protested early laws requiring inoculation among schoolchildren in Boston in the mid-nineteenth century.
Some of these early objectors believed that vaccination was itself an affront to the God who had sent disease to punish sinners, while others, like today’s anti-vaccination activists, feared that the shots meant to protect the public good would inflict harm on individuals.
Still, by the twentieth century most states in the U.S. coupled compulsory vaccination with public school attendance (since 1986, all federal vaccine research and safety monitoring takes place under the Department of Health and Human Services’ National Vaccine Program). Through the mid-century, when Jonas Salk invented the polio vaccine, most Americans got their shots without much fuss; most of the diseases now routinely vaccinated against, were still prevalent enough to remind people what the shots prevented.
For today’s parents, though, measles, mumps, and rubella aren’t on the list of most-feared diseases. Autism is. And the rumored link between autism and vaccination, despite frequent and authoritative debunking (including a new study just last month) simply won’t go away. You can blame the Internet, with its echo chamber of like-minded non-scientists posting link after spurious link. You can blame pop culture, with its fondness for elevating the opinions of celebrities to something nearing received wisdom. And you can most certainly blame our scientifically illiterate society, in which most readers can’t evaluate the relative value of competing claims, even when some come from peer-reviewed medical journals and some from non-medical environmental organizations commenting on issues far outside their expertise or, worse, random people on their computers, preying on parents’ worst fears.
Fear of autism is perfectly reasonable. It’s a scary diagnosis, one that’s risen exponentially over the past two decades – though whether through a vast expansion of the diagnosis or an actual increase in numbers is still hotly debated. But it’s natural that a condition with no known cause would inspire concerned parents to go looking for a culprit, particularly one they can protect their children from.
The autism community is itself divided on the matter, with some absolving vaccines of any role, others feeling they may add to an environmental trigger that interacts with genetic predisposition, and others convinced that thimerosal, a preservative once found in vaccines (but removed for good in 1999), is to blame. Although parents have found reasons to object to vaccination requirements since their introduction centuries ago, the current autism-related anti-vaccination movement dates from a 1998 article in the medical journal The Lancet by British surgeon Andrew Wakefield, a controversial figure who has been charged with misconduct and most of whose co-authors have recanted the study.
It doesn’t really matter that there’s no significant scientific debate about the matter (as with evolution and global warming, a vanishingly miniscule number of actual scientists disagree with the majority opinion), many parents still feel that the relationship between autism and vaccines is an open question. And though the number of families opting to exempt themselves from vaccination requirements is overall quite small – less than one percent in most states – it’s a very vocal minority. (A growing movement of parents choose to vaccinate their children, but on a delayed or modified schedule.) Parents who opt out of vaccines tend toward the crunchy; Waldorf Schools are among those with the highest incidence of non-vaccination, and have found themselves the epicenters of childhood disease outbreaks. As with the anti-vaccine movements in Nigeria, American anti-vaxers don’t exactly trust the government to administer public health. They may not fear that vaccines will sterilize their children, or spread AIDS, as the Nigerian Muslims who protested polio vaccination did, but they do share a mistrust of western medicine, “big pharma,” and other forces lined up on the side of vaccination.
Not vaccinating your kids is sort of like not voting.
So what’s the effect of parents’ not vaccinating their children? In communities where most children are vaccinated, one or two who haven’t aren’t enough to disrupt the herd immunity conferred on all children (though if they travel to an area where vaccinations are rare, they are at risk). But once the group vaccination rate tips below a certain point, diseases once nearly eradicated can come roaring back, as seen in this past summer’s measles outbreaks. For this reason, the American Medical Association opposes all exemptions, even religious, to vaccine regulation. (Most Americans who ask for exemptions do so for personal philosophical reasons, though many claim religion because that’s all their state allows for.) Their policy, though commonsensical, seems designed to backfire when addressing parents already primed to mistrust the medical establishment on the issue.
It’s easy to see the opt-out parents as selfish and entitled, as in a New York Times article from 2007 in which one mother proclaimed, “I refuse to sacrifice my children for the greater good.” Against such attitudes, public health concerns – in which the greater good is the common goal – face an uphill battle. And yet many parents have come to their anti-vaccine position after much struggle, and some cite the arrogance of official pro-vaccine spokespeople as one reason.
It’s true that the CDC site barely mentions parental concerns or fears, communicating its “fear not” message in a tone that fails to acknowledge that parenting is an enterprise in which fear and love and emotion, not logic, are the primary motivators. Because public health isn’t about publicizing what all scientists believe, but rather positively impacting the health of the community, doctors and other scientists need to learn to listen to parents, no matter how silly their concerns may sound, before they issue their pronouncements. Health organizations that express empathy for the difficulty of these decisions go a long way toward improving the dialogue.
Not vaccinating your kids is sort of like not voting: it might not make much of a difference, but you’re betting on most everyone else making a different choice, and the outcome is one everyone has to live with. So it’s not surprising that some refer to non-vaccinating families as freeloaders (or, in Amanda Peet’s more incendiary language, “parasites“). But unlike those who fail to vote, parents who opt out of vaccinating their children are doing so for the very best reasons: they love their children and want the best for them. The question is, how fair is it to “protect” your children from vaccines if it puts other kids at risk?
Well, my daughter attends a Waldorf school, and she is vaccinated, as are many-but not all-of her classmates. What is so interesting to me about the whole vaccination debate is that so many people are so misinformed and have no understanding of biology, medicine, or how the whole thing even works. The believe (I hear this often) that if their children get sick from one of these diseases, then it is somehow strengthening thier immune system, which isn’t true, or that their child won’t get TOO sick because s/he is breastfed, etc. One poster on another online article said she didn’t want “dead bacteria” injected into her child…when vaccinations are for (and from) viruses, not bacteria! Why should I bother to take my child to a doctor at all if I can’t or won’t accept and respect that they have ahd a fair amount of education and just might know more about it than me and my best friend, Dr. Google? Why believe what your doctor tells you about x, but not y because you know someone who has an aunt or a brother or a child that had something bad happen to them, and so on.
We vaccinate on the Dr. Sears schedule–all the vaccines, but spread out. However, I found the tone of this article to be incredibly condescending. How can you assume that everyone who chooses not to vaccinate is “scientifically illiterate?”While there is no conclusive proof that the vaccinations do any harm, we do know that many vaccines contain several toxins as preservatives. Seeking to limit your child’s exposure to toxins, especially if your child or another child of yours has had a reaction to vaccinations in the past, is not “irrational.”And the idea that perhaps toxins can interact with other environmental factors and a genetic predisposition is very much up for debate in the research community.This article is mean-spirited put-downs and adds no information or new ideas to the mix.
Thanks for this well-written article on an important topic. Unfortunately, it will likely do little to sway the folks who oppose vaccinations based on the phantom link between them and autism. It’s a terrible shame when otherwise good-intentioned and loving parents jump onto the bandwagon of outrageous misinformation in an attempt to explain a tragic diagnosis in their children. Like pinning the crime on the wrong person just so ther is SOMEONE to blame, the real killer goes free. Parents…EDUCATE yourself on this topic. Peer-reviewed study after study after study has debunked this ridiculous claim. Not a SINGLE real study has demonstrated a link. Yet…the ignorance persists.
THis was great. Most people I’ve heard fighting for their right to not vaccinate are extremely misinformed about the grave dangers of these diseases we’re vaccinating against. There are SO many horrible toxins we’ve introduced to the public in the last 20 years, zeroing in on these vaccines seems so crazy to me. It seems to me that the only sane part of this is the stretching out of the schedule – that seems reasonable and it would alleviate any worry about the vaccines somehow triggering autism.
“Some of these early objectors believed that vaccination was itself an affront to the God who had sent disease to punish sinners”Do people really think this way? My mother had polio as a child and I’m pretty sure G-d didn’t send it down on her for talking back or being naughty. At least…I hope not.I’m torn on vax. I know it’s for the good, but what about unnecessary vax? I’ve been vax’d for chicken pox. Still got them!
I live around a lot of people who have opted out, and I worry about that. My kid hasn’t had all her shots yet, and that combined with the not-quite-100% coverage even with vaccination makes me nervous. But it’s hard to convince someone who doesn’t trust institutions/the government/anything man-made. I’m not sure we should try; there’s a lot to distrust in this country. But we should have some basic requirements for (at least) public school. That way parents who want take the risk of not vaccinating aren’t putting the other children immediately at risk as well.
I agree wholly with CaliMama above. We have also used a spread out vaccination schedule put together based on Dr. Sears’ excellent book (Dr. Robert Sears’ (son of William and Martha Sears) “The Vaccine Book”). What this article has failed to account for – and what is commonly left out of articles discussing the public health risks of not vaccinating – is that Doctors, CDC, NIH and others have all overstated the safety of vaccines. In many cases, particularly with respect to the toxicity of injected aluminum as opposed to ingested aluminum, Doctors simply do not have any data or evidence to draw on to state that it is safe. And yet they do.Is it any surprise then that many who can decipher baseless claims from peer-reviewed ‘good’ science remain skeptical about the safety of vaccines and fashion vaccination schedules and practices that diverge from the CDC guidelines? Yes, peer-reviewed articles and studies have reasonably debunked the MMR live-virus theory of autism and this is reassuring. It would, however, be a heck of a lot more reassuring if health practitioners were honest about the claims they could make. By overstating safety they may be reducing infectious diseases through higher rates of vaccinations, but at what cost?
I write this as someone who does not think there is a link between Autism and the MMR vaccine…If there were a link, does anyone seriously it would ever be known? Think about the liability for companies, the backlash against the government, the level of distrust that would be unleashed against the public health system and its infrastructure, the liability for the government, the list goes on.Simply put, there would be too much at stake. Even if the MMR vaccine played a role in autism, it is most likely that it is one of many factors. No way that ever gets proven to the point of being publicly spoken.Just sayin…
it’s like not voting???if i shoot a gun randomly towards a city, is that like not voting?you are not endangering anyone’s life by not voting.
what a pile. I chose not to vaccinate not because of fears of “autism” although I am not saying vaccines don’t cause autism, I just don’t know.This herd immunity is another pile of junk science. Immunity is largely genetic. If you are predisposed (just like cancer) you are more likely to get a certain disease vs another person with a far differing genetic makeup. Telling people they are 99% immune after a shot is bunk. If they were so certain why not put that guarantee in writing on shot day, instead you have to sign a waiver giving up any rights if something should go wrong or if the shot doesn’t work.The recent measle outbreak of 130 sum odd person in the USA (mind you more people get and die from cancer every year) Half of those people were immunized. Using the herd excuse is a new screen to protect pharmecorp from lawsuits arising showing how ineffective their drugs are.If you think vax have helped you more power to you. If you think your kids are going to die from measles mumps rubella chicken pox etc…those are your own fears. WE live in a very clean society compared to the days were massive outbreaks killed people. Never mind how fly by night “doctors” bleed people or gave them heroine to deal with issues. The varying medical practices of the time actually led to the death of many people not so much the illness. Poor diet filthy living conditions. Things that are pretty non existent for most of us.I got chicken pox as did all my sibiling’s. We all survived just fine. We have had rubella as children and I am naturally immune to it. (take a blood test and you may be surprised how many natural immunities you have). What worries me is that parents aren’t being logical about shots. Before you get any vaccines you should have your children blood tested for naturally occurring immunities. Vaccines should be offered on a case by case basis not a all or nothing as it sits now. I know most parents have no idea about how dangerous the side effects are vs the actually getting of the virus. Personally I have more faith in mother nature and human design then scientist with mixed ideas and opinions. Parents should do more research then they do, most only read a pamphlet at the doctors office 15 minutes before giving their kids a shot. To me that is just negligent. Most people don’t die in this country from the things we immunize against. The elderly and immune surpressed are the ones that suffer. Interestingly enough those are also the ones that aren’t supposed to get vaccines. SO the herd mentality is aimed at protecting those weak ones? Not all the healthy people the ones that are likely going to die from something sooner or later be it the measles or the common cold.Look at small pox we no longer vax for it…why is that..The last naturally acquired case of smallpox occurred in 1977. The last cases of smallpox, from laboratory exposure, occurred in 1978. In the United States, routine vaccination against smallpox ended in 1972. Since the vaccine is no longer recommended, the vaccine is not available. Other then the babyboomer generation not many people have had a vaccine. So why aren’t we all small pox ridden? Do some research on how many people actually die or are harmed by these deadly childhood diseases? Not much. You are more likely to get hit by a car in most cases. I just love how the CDC puts out ad campaigns how millions die each year from “this” disease. What they fail to acknowledge is 99% of those are in some third world country mostly Africa. People freak out and think that 1 million americans died last year and go and dose their kids up.Then the newest campaign is guilting parents that they too should go get “booster” shots.Bottom line is that I don’t think vaxing gives you much protection. It firmly believe it is a psycological bandaid for the fearful. IF it makes you feel better then more power to you.
Table 1: Estimated number of deaths, with ranges*, by WHO region, 2006Africa 36,000 [26 000 - 49 000]Americas Eastern Mediterranean 23,000 [16 000 - 34 000]European South-East Asia 178,000 [128 000 - 234 000]Western Pacific 5,000 [3000 - 7000]TOTAL 242,000 [173 000 - 325 000]Notice how North and South America are lumped together. As is all of Europe.We should all be more afraid of a car accident.Four hundred and fifty people died in 12 fatal U.S air-transport accidents from 1996 to 2000. Meanwhile, 209,117 people, including 30,189 pedestrians and bicyclists, died in 186,474 fatal traffic crashes. In 2000 alone, 37,409 crashes killed 41,821 people.
For Vax Confused above, who states: “I’m torn on vax. I know it’s for the good, but what about unnecessary vax? I’ve been vax’d for chicken pox. Still got them!”One big difference between chicken pox and say, measles or polio: there isn’t an eradication program in place for chicken pox. Lots — indeed, most — kids get chicken pox with little or no long-term affects, and no one is trying to completely remove it from the community. Polio is a completely different story, though, and those few conspiracy theorists who decide that they know better are putting entire communities at risk. I’m all for independent analysis of the data — read every study you can. (First get to know what constitutes a scientifically/statistically rigorous study, though.) But when the data is as clear as it is now that there is no link between autism and vaccines, please don’t put my health and the health of my child at risk.Here’s why this makes me angry: I was vaccinated as a child. Now I’m pregnant with my first baby, and just found out that my immunity to measles has weakened with time. And thanks to those who have decided that they know better, we’re in the middle of the biggest measles outbreak in years.
Believe what you want.http://www.whale.to/a/lying.html
[The only effective thing about vaccines is their remarkable ability to cause diseases. If you study the real statistics, or the graphs, you will find no evidence that vaccination eliminated any disease or reduced the death rate for any disease. If you start with smallpox you will find the truth shocking. With measles, one of the later vaccines, the death rate had declined by 99.4% before vaccination! Same story of useless and dangerous vaccines---with Diptheria (check out the first 40 years of Diptheria vaccination as recorded by Beddow Bayly), TB, measles, mumps, polio, rubella, tetanus, flu, pertussis/whooping cough (especially the highly toxic vaccines) There may be some evidence of vaccination suppressing measles incidence but this is a bad thing. Vaccinated children still get the so called 'vaccine-preventable' diseases. The only effective protection against germs is nutrition/diet, naturopathy & homeopathy, and by avoiding poisons such as junk food, as some of these quotes point out: Infections & poisons, Infection & nutrition, Germ theory hoax.]“We are taught by the authorities that vaccines protect us against eventual aggressive viruses and microbes, and, therefore, prevent contagious illnesses and epidemics. This lie has been perpetuated for 150 years despite the INEFFECTIVENESS of vaccines in protecting against illnesses…the USELESSNESS of certain vaccines, notably, TB & Tetanus..Diptheria….Influenza and hepatitis B.”—-Guylaine Lanctot, M.D.”The decline in infectious diseases in developed countries had nothing to do with vaccinations, but with the decline in poverty and hunger (Dr. Buchwald draws the Committees attention to a series of about 50 graphs in his book which show that vaccinations have no effect on the decline of infectious diseases).–Dr Buchwald, M.D.”Up to 90% of the total decline in the death rate of children between 1860-1965 because of whooping cough, scarlet fever, diptheria, and measles occured before the introduction of immunisations and antibiotics.”—Dr Archie Kalokerinos, M.D.”According to the records of the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company, from 1911 to 1935 the four leading causes of childhood deaths from infectious diseases in the U.S.A. were diptheria, pertussis, scarlet fever, and measles. However, by 1945 the combined death rates from these causes had declined by 95% before the implementation of mass vaccine programs.”–Dr Buttram MD”All infectious diseases decreased without vaccinations. Not only did vaccines have no influence over the decrease of the diseases, the contrary is true, they slowed down the downward trend of all diseases. The best example for this is polio. After the majority of people were vaccinated, severe epidemics occurred, such as in 1962 in the German speaking countries, after vaccination had been in full force for 3 years. Dr Buchwald carefully collected the facts in his book, which prove this fact beyond doubt for all infectious diseases38.”—-Anita Petek-Dimmer
As was sort of touched on in the article, the most frustrating thing about this issue is the lack of a middle ground. Pro-vaccine “establishment” types try to scare parents into vaccinating and don’t hesistate to label them irresponsible if they don’t. The anti-vaccine camp is way off in the other direction and you don’t always feel like you can trust what they are saying either. Others have mentioned the Dr. Sears book (The Vaccine Book) and I highly recommend this book to anyone looking for information about vaccines. The author acknowledges that (and lends support to the reasons why) parents have reason to be legitimately concerened about this issue while not being totally against vaccination. He is actually totally pro-vaccine, but he was surprised when he started researching the issue (which isn’t taught in any detail in med school) to find that there really are huge gaps in the research that is done on vaccines and the systems for tracking adverse reactions are woefully inadequate. Because vaccines can cause problems. That is a fact. Just like prescription drugs can. Except vaccines don’t undergo the same scrutiny as drugs do before they are out on the market, which I find very disturbing. You have to weigh the risks vs. the benefits and the more information we can be given that is based on facts instead of groups trying to push and agenda, the better off we will all be.I’m in Ontario, Canada and the choice we have made for our son is to get all the “mandatory” vaccines (MMR, polio, diptheria, tetanus) and skip the meningococcal, pneumococcal, and chicken pox. I am satisfied with this approach, but after reading the Dr. Sears book mentioned earlier I’ll probably see if I can give those ones on a different schedule than the standard one. He makes a strong case for spreading them out. One interesting thing to consider is the differences in vaccine schedules in different areas. The pro-vaccine zealot types get very upset if people don’t fully vaccinate their children, but a LOT of the vaccines on the schedule in the United States aren’t on the vaccine schedule in Ontario, at least not for infants (e.g. Hep B and rotavirus). Young children in the US get waaaay more vaccines than they do here. So who is right? That is a rhetorial question, by the way.
‘carlie’ says: “Most people don’t die in this country from the things we immunize against.” Smartest thing you wrote in your entire response. Take a moment and think about why this one part of your comments is actually true. ‘prepare’ lists a bunch of quotes about vaccinations. Where’s the peer-reviewed data that the ENTIRE human population depends on for veracity?Several people have commented on the lack of middle ground. Frankly, there really isn’t any. Medical and scientific research the WORLD over has demonstrated for decades that vaccinations confer a greater quality and longevity of life on human beings. Not a single one has shown otherwise. You’re fooling yourselves to the great detriment of your and my children.
I agree with another reader — this article is condescending towards parents who do not agree completely with vaccinations. I was educated at a world renowned university and, though not an MD, know how to read a scientific study. Furthermore, my education taught me that just because someone tells me something doesn’t mean its true, even if that someone is the government. Not all vax-questioning parents are uneducated and many do not believe that thimerosal is to blame for autism. Statements to the contrary just prove that vaccine proponents do not take us seriously. We are not parasites. We are just good parents trying to make the best choices for our children until they are able to choose for themselves.This article proves once again that too many people are happy to just do as they are told without doing their own research. I understand research is hard with a little one running around. But any true scientist will tell you skepticism is the basis for all scientific inquiry through which we find the truth. If we always believe what “experts” tell us, we would not know the names Copernicus or Pasteur.
This was a great article, very well written. Like someone else pointed out, it will likely have little impact on those already convinced of the big-pharm conspiracy and unproven links between vaccines and all sorts of conditions. I’ve found that the people who are vehemently anti-vaccine tend to stubbornly refuse to listen to any reason or study that contradicts their views and will continue to proselytize their impassioned opinions based on rumors and unproven theories. And I really can’t take seriously someone who considers homeopathy as more effective than real medicine and science.
Its a lot easier to question vaccines when you live in a time and place where you’ve never seen a large outbreak of polio or smallpox.One of the more frustrating comments I’ve read on this article compared natural immunity to diseases to natural immunity to cancer. I’m sure everyone living in Hiroshima, which still has one of the highest cancer rates or parts of China, which are experiencing high cancer rates due to environmental pollution, all have the similar genetic predisposition?? And it is as surprising to me that we don’t have more stringent regulations regarding known carcinogens in our environment as it is that there are people who choose not to vaccinate because vaccines don’t work! Of course sanitation and better nutrition has helped to all but eradicate these diseases in many parts of the world, but it is a multi-tiered approach that still depends on vaccinations. For those who believe their is an autism link, which disease would you rather have your child get? Polio? And for those of you whose concerns are based elsewhere, considering the vast number of the population is vaccinated and have shown no negative effect, why not just error on the side of caution?
I agree with others that this article was very one-sided. Although I did choose to vaccinate my daughter ( with a slightly modified schedule) I also did a lot of reading, which made me wish there was more of a middle ground available in this argument. I am perfectly capable of reading scientific studies (aerospace engineer) and I have not been convinced that vaccines are not contributing factor to autism and other diseases. I don’t think they are the only cause, but I don’t think that anyone has proven that there is no link. I think vaccines are important, I just wish that more research was done into spreading out the schedule so it wasn’t such an all or nothing decision.
Great article. Couldn’t agree more.
mrb wrote:”Several people have commented on the lack of middle ground. Frankly, there really isn’t any. Medical and scientific research the WORLD over has demonstrated for decades that vaccinations confer a greater quality and longevity of life on human beings. Not a single one has shown otherwise.”The fact that you can say this just demonstrates that you haven’t bothered to look into this at all and are content to accept what the “experts” tell you. Or maybe you don’t have kids. If you can’t accept the possibility (whether you really believe it or not) that some people may have adverse reactions to vaccines, then your head is really buried deep in the sand. The fact that some people have very bad reactions to vaccines is a fact. Read the product monographs. That is why there is a system for reporting adverse reactions. Three vaccines have been pulled off the market in the past 20 years because of adverse reactions (DTP, live-virus oral polio vaccine, RotaShield). These are vaccines that were initially considered safe, then were pulled after “postmarketing surveillance” revealed an unacceptable rate of severe side effects. This “surveillance” is considered part of the safety research. On our kids. After being told they are safe. Sorry if I have a problem with that.One last thing – some of the adverse reactions can be things that would not show up for years. This is something that there is no system in place to track whatsoever.
I think that Prepare and Carlie, in their attempts to disagree with the article, simple proved the author’s point quite convincingly. Carlie in particular shows the “scientific illiteracy” discussed. Absolutely there are fewer deaths (due to illnesses that we do and do not have vaccines for) in developed nations than others. Good nutrition and hygienic environments are very crucial. However, there are still serious and significant consequences to these illnesses. So much of the debate surrounding vaccines seems to be based in anecdotal evidence and fear mongering. Certainly question science and the establishment, but not from a position of hysteria and distrust.
It’s exactly like not voting. (especially in an election like this one!)You can’t trust the government to have your best interests in mind. Look at the FDA or the EPA, what a joke! Educate yourself. Our daughter is vaccinated one at a time, as are most of the babies we know.
Does everyone who does not vax really believe that their child will never travel to another country or encounter people from other countries? The world is not the US and europe – many people still die from diseases that we vax against and it should not matter if it is in this country or in the world. It is estimated that 1 in 4 children who contract measles in India die from the disease or complications caused by the disease. That is real, and a legitimate cause of concern.I do not know if vax’s are linked to autism or not. I do know that we live as a family between two countries, one “developed” and the other not, and that I cannot even consider the possibility of not vaxing my two precious children, because for us, the possibility of contracting a preventable disease is a very real concern.
Great article. Thanks for writing it! I used to be more on the fence about how I felt about vaccines, but I’ve actually become a bit of a pro vaccine zealot over the last year or so! The stories about the measles and pertussis outbreaks in the areas where the rates of those not vaccinated are really high (compared to the rest of the country) made me realize that when we don’t vaccinate our children, it’s not just THEM that are at risk. It’s the young babies, the elderly and the immune compromised that are really getting hurt. These are the people that have little protection and are getting sick/hospitalized. I have a new baby on the way and a 2 year old. I am actually a bit scared of what my 2 year old will bring home to the newborn. I live in a town with a lot of anti vaccine people, and I’m at the point where I don’t even want my kids to be around them!
The woman who wrote this article is no scientist either, obviously.The article is filled with half truths and mean spirited put downs. What about Gardasil? What about the untested long term effects?http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=68454What about the government giving millions of dollars to the family of the child who contractedautism after his MMR? This case happened last year. Yet no mention in your biased, one-sided article.I’m one of many families I know that are not marching like lemmings to the governments (and Mercks) tune. When I was a child I got 7 vaccines. There are now 57. Who do you think makes a profit off of that?Keep on believing what the company sells you. But articles like this certainly aren’t going to sway anyoneto your side.
The more I read on the internet, the more I am saddened by how thoughtlessly reactive people can be.There is a middle ground, and a commenter summed it up previously – some people have a genetic predisposition to autism that can be triggered by certain vaccines. All vaccines don’t cause autism in all people; many vaccines are a boon to public (and individual) health. If you have a family history of autistic spectrum disorders, then you might want to consider your child’s vaccinations carefully. (Oh my GOD! Red state! Blue State! What’s this idiot talking about! Up is down! People may not reasonably disagree in America!!)
I can’t even believe I read such a biased article here. Objective should be your goal. You got one thing right….those who are labeled as “anti-vaccine” love their children dearly, but what isn’t being discussed here is the hypocrisy involved with vaccines. Those people who are A-okay with injecting their children, and multiple times, even for coverage of up to 9 different diseases at once, are the same people who take big issue with their children being exposed to lead via toys from overseas. Hypocrites. Lead isn’t okay, but formaldehyde and the tons of other toxic substances deemed at a safe level via the government via vaccines are? Ha!I vaccinate, but selectively so and one at a time, as well as on a delayed schedule. THIS is what makes me feel better and is a choice I can live with should MY child turn into a devastating statistic. My decision came to be simply by being converted by the very professionals some people so blindly trust. You think your doctor has been educated to anything other than what he was told? By whom? @@ The first rumblings of “hype” of children actually developing polio from the oral polio drops (vaccine-induced polio) was about the time I had my first child. I expressed my concern when the time came to give my child those drops. I was chastised and told that I HAD to do both the oral and the IV polio for the best coverage. I was worried then, but I did it. I allowed myself to trust my physician. Two years later when I had my daughter, oral polio had been discontinued due to too many children developing vaccine-induced polio and there not being any real threat for a polio outbreak. What does that say about that medical provider? He trusted what he was told – THAT IS ALL! He was programmed a certain way about it. What’s worse is that while the US has deemed the risk of the OPV not worth it for us any longer, they are still giving it to third-world children. Apparently, they aren’t as worthy as we are?As we all know, there are levels of varied items in this world deemed as “safe levels”. Whether or not autism is a result of thimerisol-containing vaccines is irrelevant. The fact is that while you can be exposed to any one of the numerous types of mercury, even including a mother’s level being passed on via breastmilk to her newborn, your body will have a threshhold tolerance, and yours will differ from mine. While your body is designed to metabolize it at different rates, dependent upon the exposure type, NOBODY checked your level before injecting you with more via a vaccine. THIS is where people are having problems. There is simply a safer way to vaccinate, but because people aren’t made aware of this fact alone, they would prefer to avoid it altogether. I’m sick of hearing about how terrible it is that people aren’t vaccinating. I’m sick of listening to the whining, trusting fools who believe those who don’t vaccinate are the worst sort of parents. Is mandating all vaccines the answer? No, it isn’t. The answer lies in PROVING they are safe by way of greener vaccines and by trying to pinpoint via testing who is more apt to be that one child in 100,000 that could suffer a lifelong debilitating or fatal reaction. Is my child worth an $8,000 test in a BEST effort to find out – he/she sure in the hell are! Plus, if it turned out there was a connection, that $8,000 insurance bill would cost a lot less than lifelong care for the consequences. There have also been links between certain autoimmune diseases and certain vaccines made that need to researched to either be disproved or proved. Recently there have been articles published about how certain cancer regimens failed certain people or were rendered ineffective by the individual’s own system in the way THEIR body processed the treatment substances, and with some testing they figured out why – because WE are ALL DIFFERENT and we don’t all just process substances the same way. I look at this as a start. It is a real injustice that people who are leery are slammed by the blindly trusting souls who really are only making what they determine to be the best decision for the family. You also need to get your facts straight – not ALL schools REQUIRE full vaccination according to the lengthy CDC schedule. In fact, the very word “requirement” differs greatly than the word “mandatory” as well. Most schools prefer you to believe that you MUST get all of those vaccines, but further investigation via your state’s requirements, as well as the school district’s, will reveal to you that maybe only 4 vaccines are “required.” Required does not always equal “mandatory for entry” either. In some states you are still allowed to sign a waiver, and signing that waiver means that your child will simply be required to leave school at the sign of an outbreak for whatever disease has appeared and will not return until something like 2 weeks after the last case has cleared. The vaccinated theoretically have nothing to fear from the vaccinated – it is only those who are unable to be vaccinated due to their immune system conditions and diseases they already have that have the right to be worried about the unvaccinated.
I am saddened by a lot to the responses I see hear, by not vaccinating your children you are leaving them open to the possibility of a painful disease, a possibly pointless death. Keep moving the goal post on what you believe is the right thing for your children, first it was the preservatives then it’s the “toxins” now it’s “big pharma” ignoring your opinion( And that’s exactly what your belief is a complete lack of any evidence opinion). You all sit behind your keyboards typing what you believe is the absolute truth yet you can ask any Scientist or Doctor if there is a such thing as an absolute truth. They will most likely respond “No”, their is only what the science(testing) shows and what we don’t know, which is regretfully a lot.BUT! What they do know is that there is no link between vaccines and autism that we know of. What we do know is that herd immunity is a viable way to control the outbreaks of wide spread disease. What we do know is that with the advent of vaccinations we have saved million of completely preventable deaths. I’m going to point to the following website which, all of the posting are done by Medical Doctors. Please read what they have to say if you have questions ask them in a proper(polite) way. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?cat=36You may no like what they have to say but they are only repeating what the SCIENCE! is showing. I am no way affiliated with the website, other than a fan of what they are doing. To the people who cannot be swayed on the idea that vaccinations are a good thing I am sad for you, more so for your children. Because your children are innocent, and will have to deal with your decisions whether that be in life or hopefully not through death.
marcella – my head isn’t the one buried in the sand, friend. If you think that the fact that an astonishingly small percentage of children have bad reactions to vaccines means it’s unsafe for the general population it is you who needs some education. Of course we’re all different to some degree, but the PROVEN and INDISPUTABLE fact is that for the giant majority of children, vaccines are not only not harmful; they are safe, effective and highly effective in preventing disease. There will always be a few individuals who don’t mesh with the greater human population, and that’s too bad. The logical extension of your comments is that since MAYBE a FEW people will be harmed by something that helps 99% of the rest of us, no one should have it. How utterly ridiculous. Think about it. Iamnotblind – you’re comparing giving children vaccines to prevent disease with being exposed to lead toys? My goodness, that’s embarrassing.But more than that is the fact that people so ignorant and so mistrustful of medicine and science and so trusting of all the outlandish stories on the net tend to make us all less safe and healthy. Shame on you.
This article is really inaccurate and serves as a way to get people excited about the anti-vaccine movement, not to convince those against vaccines to vaccinate. We have vaccinated my daughter against some diseases and not others, after I began to do my own research about the diseases she was getting vaccinated against. Almost all of the vaccines we now vaccinate our children against are for diseases that are not life threatening to children but to adults. Yet our vaccines contain dangerous toxins, concerns by the way which have been brought up by doctors who have written books and articles in medical journals about their concerns, not quacks on the internet. The MMR shot creates side effects that mimic some of characteristics of autism. Even though taking the shots as measles, mumps and rubella over the course of several months has been proven more effective with less chance of side effects, very few parents even know they have an option. Then there are families who are opposed to vaccines on moral grounds. Families who are against the way aborted fetuses are used to research vaccines, families who are against animal cells being used in vaccines. So to just say their beliefs are not important is pretty ignorant. I would argue the decision to vaccine or not vaccine both have risks, but those risks are small so both decisions should be respected. Not only in our society where there are vaccinated children, but in any society where there is good nutrition and proper methods of waste disposal. Also I wanted to comment that in the recent outbreaks both children who were and were not vaccinated got sick. This is because vaccines are only 50% effective and in some cases literally expire in the doctors office. We are also living with a huge population of adults who are not up to date on their vaccinations who present a bigger risk to our population then children, because many of these diseases kill adults while only creating a brief sickness in children.
To the people who say this article is mean-spirited: I’m not sure how you come to this conclusion. She is just stating the scientific facts. Just because she does not believe in junk science does not mean she is mean-spirited.To the author of the article – THANK YOU!!! I still can’t believe, after all the data available, that people would choose not to vaccinate their kids. I do truly believe this is a result of the scientific illiteracy in this country.I also can’t believe the few posters who have said we don’t have to worry about these diseases because so few people in the US have them. Uh, could that be because of the vaccines? Why are people so resistant to the data?Also, someone said that, even if there was negative data out there, it would not be published. That is a total load of BS. There are so many anti-vaccine people out there who would love to spread this data. (Look at Dr. Wakefield’s very questionable “study” on only 12 patients. Despite the fact that he was bribed to do this study, anti-vaccine types hang onto this data.)Also remember, vaccines (for the most part) are not big money-makers for drug companies. They make much more money on a pill that you need to take every day, than on a vaccine that has a low profit-margin that you get only a couple of times in your life. (For those of you who do get your kids vaccinated, have you ever seen how much your insurance pays for these vaccines? Compared to most medication, it is very low.)
When my son Ben was about 18-20 months, in daycare, and up to date with his immunizations, and had been sick with colds, croup, ear infections, stomach flus, etc. for about 12 months (almost since the day he started daycare), my husband and I took him to a holistic doctor. Even though my husband and I knew Ben would catch a lot of viruses when he started being in the company of a lot of other children, we didn’t think his cough, runny nose, recurrent croup and constant night wakings were normal. The holistic doctor ran blood tests and discovered among other things that his MMR reading was incredibly high. The doctor suggested that the high level of the antibodies in his body could be in part what was making him so susceptible to other viruses. We also learned that the immunization for chicken pox had not taken, so if in contact with it, he could actually contract it. This news really bothered us. I’d read about the potential problems associated with thimersal and/or the receiving a combination of immunizationsat one time, but wasn’t aware of how the immunizations could potentially linger or not even take at all. Maybe there should be follow-ups to these immunizations…Ben’s due for more immunizations, but we’re planning further blood tests before we get his next MMR.
dhsredhead, where did you get the stat that vaccines are only 50% effective? Of the 64 cases of measles that were reported in the US from Jan to April of this year, only 1 person was confirmed to be vaccinated. Nothing in science in absolutely 100%, but the efficacy rate for vaccines is certain not as low as 50%.You say you have done research, but the “facts” you state have nothing to do with hard data. Again, please cite your sources.
dhsredhead, also could you cite the doctors you are talking about, and what articles they have written concerning the toxins in vaccines? I asked someone else this, and they gave me a name of someone who is actually a geologist.
People who do not immunize put other people at risk. I work at a school with a high rate of non-immunization. A child brought whooping cough to school. A staff member caught it, and was out for a month – this does not include the time before she was diagnosed and just felt awful. The rest of the staff had to go on serious antibiotics. All of the non-immunized children’s parents had to be contacted and warned. All non-immunized children who develiped a cough and fever had to get cleared by a dr. before they could come back to school. Vene parents of students who were immunized worried about their children. And on top of this, the parents of the child who brought the whooping cough to school did not even have the decency to notify the school that their child was a carrier. The Health Department notified the school. Needless to say, I do not think highly of those who are not immunizing their kids. They cost this poor woman 4 weeks of work, antibiotics for rest of the satff (and not cheap ones), doctors visits for other families, and they did not even have the decency to notify the school. I used to think it did not matter, and it was a personal decision. Now I think differently.
@mrb:I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you are reading these posts really fast and therefore not actually getting the points that I personally was trying to make. If you actually read what I wrote in BOTH of my posts, you would see that I never said that no one should ever vaccinate their children or that vaccines are inherently bad. My son has been vaccinated. My point was that there most definitely are people who will be hurt by vaccines, and that the research done on vaccines before they go to market is not good enough. Likewise, the research done to follow people long term is non-existant. You clearly missed the part in my post where I pointed out that 3 vaccines have been taken off the market in the last 20 years because of severe reactions. That means lots of people (kids) got hurt while they figured that out. Do you think that is OK? Would you think it was OK if it happened to your child? There aren’t that many vaccines out there – 3 in 20 years is a lot.If giving an infant a Hep B vaccine the day they are born is recommended where you live (which it likely is if you live in the US) but not where I live (which it is not), would you be irresponsible for declining to give your child that vaccine? Should I pay out of pocket to get it since an authority near where I live thinks it is important? The difference in vaccination schedules across North America is just one example of why it isn’t unreasonable for people to take a closer look at the issue. Clearly all authorities everywhere don’t agree on the priorities and the timing for vaccines. I wasn’t going to get personal here, but I just can’t help but say that you are a perfect example of what is wrong with the whole vaccine discussion. You think it is a black and white issue with clear cut right and wrong answers and you dismiss the concerns of people who have valid questions. Without even taking the time to actually consider what they are saying, I might add. I’ve got a Master of Science degree; I can read a study and discern good from bad information. I don’t tend to read “outlandish stories on the net”. This is not a black and white issue, and the people who are not vaccinating their children are not going to be convinced to do otherwise by people like you that belittle them and question their intelligence. There really is no need to call other people ignorant in a public forum intended for open and informative discussion.
marcella, could you please list the vaccines that have been taken off the market. I only know about the ones that were replaced with newer, improved vaccines. (I am honestly asking this, not trying to be a pain.)I just want to make a point to everyone. Some people talk about vaccines being dangerous, because some kids have reactions, and that the original data was not complete enough before the vaccines were on the market. Any kind of medication has a potential to cause some kind of reaction in someone. (If you give medication to 1 million people, at least 1 will have a bad reaction.) However, a medication needs to do more good than harm, and that is what vaccines do. The benefit of vaccines greatly outweigh the risks. To say that a potential risk would be a reason to take a product off the market is to say we would have absolutely no medication available for anyone.
My family and I traveled from China to the US in 2004 (coming back from vacation). The health department called us three days later. A child on the 14 hour flight had been diagnosed with measles, and had we been vaccinated? My kids were fine, because I’d had them vaccinated.I was fine, because my mother (a nurse) made sure I’d been vaccinated in 1968, and I’d had my antibody levels checked before I started nursing school.My husband had to sign a form stating he wouldn’t sue if the globulin shot he got to boost his immunity made him sick. AND he had to pay for the shot (only $75). Why did he do this?A. Measles in an adult male may render that male sterile, and it can hospitalize an adult for fever or complications. It’s not a friendly disease to an adult past puberty. None of the “childhood” diseases are “kid stuff” to an adult. Check out what happens to pregnant women and their babies if they’re exposed to German measles.B. My husband took public transportation to work every day, and his conscience wouldn’t let him face all those people he’d never meet, if he made them sick because he didn’t choose to get the shot. To all parents:I get you don’t want to give your kid shots, or all the shots, or the shots on the schedule. Just one question. Let’s pretend that your or your child is exposed to someone with one of these “childhood” diseases you chose not to vaccinate against. It *will* happen, I promise you. There are so many people traveling all over the world, and so many people who don’t choose to vaccinate at all, that you or your child WILL be exposed. If not now, later, when your child is an adult.You may luck out, and you or your child will be sick for a week or two, and nothing more. And you may be absolutely lucky enough that your child won’t have infected his or her entire school and/or day care. Or maybe not, given that several of these diseases are contagious before symptoms occur. You may not luck out. Your child may be hospitalized for one of those complications that don’t happen to vaccinated kids (encephalitis, anyone?). Your child may die. Or you may die. Or your spouse, because, again, these “childhood” diseases aren’t kid stuff to an adult. Or worse, you or your child may carry this disease to someone else, and *they* may suffer because you’ve got it. What will you say to the person you see in the mirror?
marcella – This is a serious issue, and I am sorry if you were personally offended by my comments. But not sorry enough to apologize for them. Again, (and sfmom1 and others have highlighted this VERY IMPORTANT truth as well)…it is inconceivable that vaccinations will harm NO ONE. This is true for any medication or treatment. Some people, due to intrinsic differences in our bodies, will for sure be harmed. That is unfortunate. It’s also life. The greater good is served by vaccinations, there just isn’t any dispute on this topic among educated and well-read individuals on the subject. I do trust them, based on decades of quality of life improvements the (first world) over…something is going right, isn’t it? We’re not dying in our 40s any longer, right? I’m glad you can read scientific studies – so can I; I spent eight years as a bio-medical researcher and am an author on several papers…so I’ve read and analyzed more scientific papers than I care to remember. You mention that vaccines have been taken off the market (which ones, please?) in the past couple decades. To me that means the system is working. Perhaps the tracking should be more comprehensive…I would support that. I bet that will happen as one singular positive outcome of all this ridiculous hysteria over a phantom and unprovable link to autism. More likely, however, is more kids will get sick which will lead to lesser herd immunity and so on and so forth. That’s how it happens.We cannot see into the future. Yet…we must continue to advance in medicine and science. Under your paradigm it seems unless we can prove something is entirely safe for everyone we should not use it. Unfortunately, the only way to find that out is to see if it’s true. It’s a Catch 22.I do apologize if I am misunderstanding your position, but I think I have it right. But, as you say, I am a clear cut example of what’s wrong with this…well…if following the instructions of people who are trained and have experience in medicine and science over the ramblings of those who have neither means I’m on the wrong side, then so be it. It’s black and white…vaccines help far more than they hurt. Study after study after study after study supports this…I trust them and so should you.Yes, I have a 4 year old son and he’s vaccinated at the recommendation of our trusted pediatrician. She went to medical school…I didn’t. Get it?
mrb, you go right on ahead and tell yourself that injecting your child with formaldehyde is okay and that it pales in comparison to lead ingestion – whatever makes you feel better and makes you able to live with your decision. sfmom – it depends on the classification of the reaction really for most parents. Allergic reaction, sure, no way to really tell who will wind up allergic to what, but there are far more serious reactions to worry about and a lot of current discussions as to how people cannot process these toxins. There are even physicians and scientists who will tell you outright it is a disgrace that vaccines are treated as a one-size-fits-all solution. Why would you take oral polio off the market when something like 1 in 2 million children actually developed vaccine-induced polio and yet not worry about the 1 in 100,000 who can have seizures and neurological deficits for any of the other vaccines? DB, if my children choose, as adults, to receive vaccines that I withheld, which are few, then they obviously may do so. Not only that, but many people feel completely different once the body has reached full maturity wherein the immune systems aren’t still developing, neurological systems, brain development, etc. It doesn’t go way to one side like pro-vaccers like to think. It does for those who have religious objections however. You can’t promise that any single person here WILL be exposed to a disease for which they have been unvaccinated, let alone to any disease at all in their entire lifetime. Such a statement renders the rest of your words less effective. Many parents of autistic children will tell you they would choose measles over autism any day for the person asking which they would choose. In my family, my husband developed an autoimmune disease 9 months after receiving the hep B shot. Coincidence, maybe. Since this AI disease is commonly hereditary in the males of the family, my children born after the discovery will not be receiving the hep B shot, unless of course you would like to promise me and them that the hep B shot, while being linked to other AI diseases in the same classification, will NOT cause my children to develop the AI disease in the first place rendering them in complete and utter pain with a fused spine for the rest of their lives. Do you dare?
lamnotblind, who are these physicians and scientists you are talking about?The oral polio vaccine was only taken off the market when an improved version was approved. Even with the small chance of someone getting polio from the oral vaccine, it was not worth taking off the market until a replacement could be developed. Also, you argue that you cannot promise that anyone will for sure be exposed to one of these diseases. However, as our world becomes more and more global, and people travel more often to countries like India for work, we will be exposed more than we have in the past.
The article mentions early on the root cause of this problem: we are no longer pressed up against the devastating effects that these diseases have on people of all ages. It would be very sad indeed if we have to see these effects again before we learn to behave sensibly. Spacing out vaccinations a bit is perfectly reasonable — my wife and I did that with our first born and will do so with our second. But freeloading on vaccinators is not reasonable, and shouldn’t be treated as such. We spent several decades allowing global warming to be described as a scientific debate when it was not one … look where that got us.
I vaccinated all three of my children but I completely understand those who do not – the shots are not without risks. I’m a former health researcher myself so I’ve read a lot of the primary research investigating the autism-thimerosal link over the years (including the much smaller, less scientifically valid studies supposedly supporting the mercury-autism hypothesis) – and have always found the scientific evidence ag. the link very solid and convincing. Even so, I don’t fool myself that some children won’t have serious negative reactions to vaccinations.
Ugh..What a condescending article. Do any of you really think our government would tell the TRUTH about how dangerous vaccines are? Do you think that the Pharmaceutical companies that make BILLIONS of dollars off unsuspecting people would allow them to tell us the truth? Don’t kind your self. If vaccines are so SAFE and effective, why do we even need VAERS? Vaccines are dangerous, and making things like Chicken Pox, a MANDATORY vaccine is RIDICULOUS. And FTR, Hib, Hep A, Hep B, and PCV are NOT mandatory. Oh, and if you want an honest opinion, perhaps you should look up DR. Sherri Tenpenny. Just so you get some info from an actual Doctor, and not some “non-scientist”.
MomtoPandP, that is the most irrational argument I have ever heard. You think that, since VAERS exists, there must be a problem? There is a reporting system for all drugs. Does that make every drug unsafe? It is the reporting system that helps assure safety?These crazy conspiracy theories do nobody any good. The truth is, drug companies do not make a lot of money on vaccines, compared to other drugs. The reason the government pushes vaccines is because they do not want to deal with the public health crisis that would occur if vaccines were no longer available.I am a scientist, and I get so upset when people use these types of irrational arguments (of course the drug companies are lying, they are big companies, therefore vaccines are unsafe. huh?)As for Dr. Tenpenny, she received her medical training at Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine in Kirksville, Missouri, not exactly Harvard Medical School. One of her arguments is that population based studies are bad because, even if 1 in a million kids get sick from vaccines, 1 is too much. This shows how little about science she actually understands.
@sfmom1 and mrb – DTP (NOT DTaP – a different version), live-virus oral polio vaccine, RotaShield. These are the vaccines that are no longer used in North America, although I believe they may still be used elsewhere. I already listed them in an earlier post. @mrb – Once again you’ve managed to write a condescending post that misses the point. I was not nor am I now offended by your writings, I was merely pointing out that there is no reason to be rude and mean-spirited in a forum like this one. You aren’t helping your cause.I’ll try one more time, and then I’m done. I’ll try to keep it simple:- I am not anti-vaccine- My son has received several vaccinations, just not the “optional” ones- Given that my son has been immunized, clearly I have not constructed any “paradigm” by which I believe only things that cause zero harm can be good- It isn’t only crunchy granola kooks that think vaccines should be better studied, that there should be mechanisms for longer-term study, and that the standard vaccine schedules can be improved upon. Why is asking for these things so wrong?- The fact about which there can truly be no debate is that there is no consensus on what vaccines should be “mandatory” and when certain ones should be administered. You cannot fault a parent for questioning the wisdom of one public health authority over another. They’re all experts, right? I might be a little off here, but by my count the typical vaccination schedule in the US has children 5 and under getting 49 vaccines for 13 diseases. In Ontario, Canada, it is 36 vaccines for 11 diseases. So if you believe there are risks in not getting all of the recommended vaccines, you might want to stay away from Ontario lest there be a Hep B outbreak in the pre-school crowd. – I think you would have to admit that there are plenty of reasons other than vaccinations why people aren’t still dying in their 40s. I can’t believe you even wrote that down. And my Mother died at 49, so it still happens.
In response to Dr. PollyDr. Sherri tenpenney is a quack. Is a licensed Medical Doctor, in Osteopathic Medicine which has lower standards than regular Medical schools. Osteopathic doctors are more likley to follow psudo sciencetific medicine that has no medical basis. You also claim that big pharma is all about making money, yet he doctor you cite as a source is all about selling you “remedies?” that do absolutely nothing for you. Why not attempt to cite someone or something that has actually been tested and peer reviewed, that shows your point of view? Alot of people can put Dr. in front of their name that does not mean that they cannot be wrong about the theories they promote. Try taking a look at real scientific studies that have been reviewed for their data collection techniques and carefully scrutinized by a majority of people who are looking out for everyone best interests. Rather than lining their own pockets by selling Woo Woo.
Hey there Donald, I believe you are responding to MomtoPandP, not Dr. Polly. Details.
Iamnotblind – Oh, I’m comfortable with using the knowledge gained over decades in medicine and science to base my decision on. You are comfortable basing your choices on, well, honestly I have no idea. You’re putting your own children and the human population at grave risk and you think you’re the knight on the white stallion for so doing. Incredible. I’m glad I don’t know you and more glad my kids aren’t anywhere near yours. They would be made less safe if they were.MomtoPandP – I bet you think that the government is really behind the 9/11 attacks don’t you. Conspiracy theories when we’re talking about our little childrens’ health. My god.marcella – okay. Points taken. I’m sorry you think I’m being mean, but this topic doesn’t lend itself to pretty little comments…it’s a matter of public health and that’s a big deal (to you too, I’m sure.) Obviously I did not intend to say that human beings live longer based exclusively on vaccinations, but that’s a big part of it.Donald – you’re right on mostly, but osteopaths get just as much classroom, lab and residency training as MDs…it’s just a slightly different way of looking at medicine. They are not less trained.
For the record, again, I fully vax my kids with Dr. Sears’ schedule.mrb–You might feel differently if your child were in that one percent–if one of your children had a bad reaction to vaccinations. That isn’t a reason to end all vaccinations…but it might be a reason to be more cautious for certain parents.gpgirl–Regardless of what you think of the facts the author presents (not all of which are correct, for example, there is still thimerosal in some vaccines), the author does not JUST present facts…the author ventures into the minds of those who do not vaccinate or are concerned about vaccinations and then, claiming to know why they make this choice, mocks that choice. Since I’m assuming she is not psychic, this is poor argumentation and mean-spirited to set up a straw man and knock it down. What I call mean-spirited is:”You can blame the Internet, with its echo chamber of like-minded non-scientists posting link after spurious link. You can blame pop culture, with its fondness for elevating the opinions of celebrities to something nearing received wisdom. And you can most certainly blame our scientifically illiterate society, in which most readers can’t evaluate the relative value of competing claims, even when some come from peer-reviewed medical journals and some from non-medical environmental organizations commenting on issues far outside their expertise or, worse, random people on their computers, preying on parents’ worst fears.”"It’s easy to see the opt-out parents as selfish and entitled” (the author clearly agrees)
In response to anon, Yes you are correct my apologizes(Dr Polly), the discussion threads are different and new to me on Babble. Refer to my earlier post should be to MomtoPandP
CaliMama, but putting in just the quote “It’s easy to see the opt-out parents as selfish and entitled”, and not adding what else comes after that, you are clearly taking it out of context. The author then goes on to explain “And yet many parents have come to their anti-vaccine position after much struggle, and some cite the arrogance of official pro-vaccine spokespeople as one reason.”As for what you call mean-spirited (the longer quote you cite), I can see how you see it that way. If you can, try to see it from a scientist’s point-of-view. For us, it is really, really difficult to see how someone could decide not to vaccinate their kids. The data is so overwhelmingly in favor of vaccinations. (There are very few medications out there with so much data that is also so positive.) Most of the data is performed by groups outside of drug companies, so bias cannot be cited. Even then, there are people who find a way to say there is some pro-vaccine conspiracy.I know it sounds mean-spirited, but I have tried very hard to find some reason that people would choose not to vaccinate their kids. As scientists, we are not “pro-vaccine” just because we love vaccines for the sake of loving them. As logical people, we try to see the other side, and if some real evidence comes up, we will consider that. I cannot find any real evidence at all, so I have had to start thinking of illogical reasons. If any kind of “real” reason were to come up, maybe we could sound less mean.As we say, “in god we trust, all others must show data”.PS As far as childhood vaccines, there is only thimerosal in the flu vaccine. All others contain no thimerosal or only trace amounts. Before 2001, vaccines contained much more thimerosal. However, since 2001 that has been no lowering of the autism rate. This was after study upon study showed that there was no thimerosal-autism link.
Great article, but I believe there are a couple errors (meant to point them out earlier but forgot). The famous/infamous Lancet article that triggered the thimerosal-autism controversy was published in 1998, not 1988. Also, I think you reported thimerosal was removed in 1999, but I’ve read 2001 as the date in many other sources. Someone might have pointed this out earlier?
I am the parent of two children–one who was vaccinated up to 14 months, had reactions to them (many were reported to the manufacturers from his lot #’s) and is profoundly autistic; and a second unvaccinated child who is completely fine. Based on my first child’s condition and a family history of other vaccine reactions (includign encepalitis), I don’t plan on either of my kids having more shots. Ftr, my younger had whooping cough already and it sucked for a month or so, but he received prompt medical care and got through it well. I am not relying on “herd immunity” to keep my kids healthy. Maybe we’re just unlucky in my family, but the damage is real and lasting from the vaccines we got. If you want to paint me as selfish go ahead–but I am not sacrificing my child’s well being for the sake of yours. It’s much easier to point fingers in disgust when this hasn’t happened in your family.
gpgirl – thanks for your posts. I agree, it’s not mean spirited to say what the author says in that long quote. America is science-illiterate and and the result of that ignorance of science and medicine is that many of us are – surprise! – wholly misinformed. I can see why that would make some people angry or feel they were being talked down to. But just because it hurts some peoples’ feelings does not mean it isn’t true. There is no dispute about the safety and efficacy of vaccinations. As you mention, rightly, there are few other medications that have such a positive track record in provable data conducted by myriad agencies over the course of many decades. Being ignorant of reality isn’t really much of an excuse in my opinion. Saying vaccines are dangerous and cause autism is no different than saying Big Macs are yummy and healthy food for children. Both deny reality and are harmful to kids and the population at large.
Yes, this article is indeed petty and mean spirited (putting down “Waldorfians”- what an easy target), but what’s worse is that it’s biased, ill-informed, and poorly written.Guess what- the FDA still thinks BPA’s are safe in plastic. That’s our government hard at work for the good of the people. But please, go ahead and believe the CDC and the AMA… our first ped took very long vacations in Hawaii with his whole family thanks to the ‘big pharm’ companies who paid his way… but no, doctors CAN’T be in their pockets… this is America~!Just like the studies coming out NOT linking autism and vaccines COULDN’T POSSIBLY be funded by the companies that make the vaccines themselves. This is America! Here’s what our family and several others in our pre-school believe; the vaccines are too many too quick and too filled with chemicals. We throw fits about trace amounts of lead in toys from China, but we’re fine shooting up 18 pound babies with more chemicals than we can even pronounce. So what do we do?A slower schedule. One at a time. And yes, we turned down the Hep-B at birth. What genius made THAT a requirement? Should we go to certain countries in the world, we’ll get more. As much as informed celebrities like Amanda Peet may preach to us, we read the science and make our own informed decisions.There’s a doctor with a website named Dr. Jay Gordon. What he says makes sense. He’s a good doctor, he’s been on television! He’s famous! He must be good! Here’s his site;http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/index.aspBabble needs better writers.
hey sloaning…you’re as dim as a 15 watt bulb. What a worthless post, full of malarky. “What genius?” I don’t know, maybe a PhD or an MD. Or…do you have no respect for those earned titles which take 12 or more years after high school to earn? Do you even have any education? I don’t think it’s Babble that needs better writers…it’s their readers that need to learn and write better. What a joke. Your decision to vaccinate on “your” schedule is the same thing as someone who says, hmmm, one pill is good for me so ten must be ten times as good. Smart.
sloaning, you are just proving the author’s point. Nowhere in your post do you mention any scientific reason for not vaccinating. All you talk about is that you don’t trust drug companies or the FDA. With that mindset, you would never trust any drug available, and no matter how much data is out there, you won’t trust vaccinations.I actually believe that it is a waste of time and money to perform MORE studies proving vaccines are safe. Scientific-minded people already believe this, and those who do not believe in vaccines will NEVER believe. I looked at the website your posted. The first article I saw was talking about how thimerosal caused autism. Again, besides the flu vaccine, thimerosal was removed from all other vaccines since 2001. There has been no drop in autism since then. Enough already.
sfmom1 – Ummm, don’t kids in the US get their first flu shot at 6 months? Just sayin’.comeon – yeah, the analogy at the end of your post makes absolutely no sense. Tough to call someone else stupid when you aren’t too bright yourself.
anon – Yes, that is true, but the fact is that the amount of thimerosal that kids get has been greatly reduced. Therefore, we should have seen some kind of reduction in the autism rate.Also, thimerosal has now been taken out of the flu vaccine for kids, at least in California. (This was later than 2001, though.)
sloaning – wow, you prove the author’s point more effectively than perhaps any of the other anti-medicine “experts” here. I sure hope your kids will be okay, you took a huge chance with them deciding that you know better than medical experts. And you’re putting other children at risk with your ignorance. Sorry, but it’s true. And it makes me angry as a parent.anon – actually the analogy posted by comeon makes perfect sense. Deciding to vaccinate on any other schedule that what is recommended by medical science (without any real knowledge except what you may “think” is right) is no different than deciding you don’t need to take this medication every 12 hours, you’ll take it every 24 or every 6 – whatever you think would be better. Biology doesn’t work that way…years of trials and research have arrived at the correct schedule. The analogy was appropriate.
mrb – As previous posters have pointed out, vaccination schedules differ across North America, so it isn’t really fair to say that just because someone uses a schedule other than the one generally used in their state/province that they are doing any harm to anyone. People who give vaccines one at a time instead all in one shot aren’t spreading them out by years, it’s just a difference of a few months at the most. No big deal. The combo-vaccines were created to reduce the number of shots you have to give, not because it is better to give them that way. Studies are done to make sure the combo vaccines aren’t harmful given together, but I’ve never seen anyone say there is harm in giving them seperately. Unless, of course, the harmful ingredients in question are more plentiful in 4 shots added together versus the combo…So no, the analagy from comeon does not make sense and you really need to chill out and stop pretending that you are more expert than anyone else.
I’m not pretending I’m more expert, but thank you for the clarification on various schedules across the US.But I place a whole lot more faith and trust in medical experts telling me what the most effective way to administer vaccines is than in my own personal feelings about when the best time would be to give them. I’ll be honest, I’m not an MD and I don’t know. I stand by my support of comeon’s analogy
I read all of my information in Mothering magazine by articles written by Dr. David Kirby, the Vaccine Book by Dr. Sears, news articles appearing in papers like the New York Times, the CDC’s own website among other places. Where did the statistic come from that during the outbreaks only one vaccinated child became sick? However if that statement is true, doesn’t that contradict the whole argument against people not vaccinating their children being a risk to the general population? Wouldn’t that mean vaccinated children and their parents would have nothing to worry about? So why care if another child gets sicks and according to most of the information out there gets through the illness (shocking I know, but our parents and our parents parents grew up without the chicken pox vaccine or anti-bacterial wipes!) or even if that child dies it is not really another parent’s or another families concern. So why is everyone so fanatical about forcing parents to vaccinate their children?
I can see why there’s confusion. Just getting a vaccination doesn’t automatically protect the child who gets it 100 percent (which is what I used to think until I did more reading). If a vaccine is made with a live weakened virus, it is apparently about 95 percent effective. I’ve heard that MMR and chicken pox are in this camp. If a vaccine is made with a killed virus, it is apparently about 75 percent effective. So there is a chance you could get vaccinated against a disease and still get it. That’s one of the reasons why vaccination programs depend on a large proportion of the population getting a vaccine – so that the disease can’t develop a foothold spread to more vulnerable individuals, such as unvaccinated infants and people whose vaccinations didn’t fully protect them.So why care if another child gets sick or dies? I know if my child weren’t vaccinated, and then got a disease and during her contagious period exposed another child who did die, I would feel much worse than bad. I can’t see how it would not be my concern. On the flip side, when my child ran a very high fever as an infant, there is just one reason why she didn’t have to have to go to the emergency room for a spinal tap – because the high rate of immunization against a formerly common childhood disease meant it was very unlikely she had the disease the spinal tap would have detected. I don’t go around thanking every member of society who chose to vaccinate, but at the time, I spend a lot of time thanking them in my heart. I didn’t really want to take part in this discussion, but I hope by posting my experience I’ll be paying part of that debt of gratitude.
I oppose letting unvaccinated children to attend public school for whatever reason or any school without their status being public for any parent that wants to know before enrolling their child. Ignorant or paranoia blinded people with no grasp of the complications of the diseases like measles, mumps, whooping cough and even Chicken Pox that think it’s fine and dandy not to vaccinate and impose their potential lepers on the rest of us really sicken me. If people want to have the right not to vaccinate their children, I want the right to know who these folk are so I can take steps to avoid my family having contact with them. It should be published in the school newsletters. I’m sick of people playing the personal belief card when it is an issue that can cause harm to others.
SocalMom – were you ever worried about chicken pox before there was a vaccine for chicken pox? Was your family fearful of you getting it when you were a kid? Yes there can be complications from chicken pox, but is it really something to be so totally afraid of? I don’t remember anybody crying in the streets that we needed a vaccine when I was a kid. And having had chicken pox, I have better immunity as an adult than if I had just had the vaccine as a child. Not that anyone should make an effort to infect their child, but really, it’s not the plague. That one is more important for people who DON’T get chicken pox when they are young, since it is a much more serious ailment when you are older. People are getting all freaked out about chicken pox now just because there is a vaccine.
Chicken pox is only the plague for some people. A child with chicken pox is contagious for two days before their rash appears, and then for about a week after. One of the people who has the most to fear from that child is a pregnant woman, because her fetus can end up with all kinds of really serious birth defects and prematurity. I’d say she’d have a reason to be freaked out.
gpgirl–I stand by my opinion that the author agrees with the shorter statement I pulled. Since this is comments on a fairly short article, I am not trying to fool anyone. They can look up the context easily…and it is clear from the overall tone of the article that the author agrees with this statement.Her comments at the end suggest not that she understands or sympathizes with parental concerns…but rather that doctors should pretend to be more sympathetic (i.e. humor these “silly” and irrational parents) in order to convince them to accept vaccines.As to your other points…Why do you assume I am not a scientist? And if I am not, that I am incapable of reading scientific studies. Should I suggest since you are a scientist and not an English major perhaps you are unable to parse the syntax of this article?I disagree with you that there are no logical reasons to be concerned about vaccines. That does not make me ignorant or unable to see your point of view.Do you think mercury or aluminum is good for children? As a scientist, are you confident that enough study has been made of the effects of these on babies? Dr. Sears says he was unable to find studies that answer his concerns. Or is he a quack?Perhaps parents who are concerned are concerned in part because of the government’s history of telling us that something is “completely safe” only to admit decades later that this is not actually the case.I believe vaccines do more good than harm, personally, which is why we vaccinate…but I find the attitude portrayed in this article to be judgmental and mean-spirited about parents’ concerns–not all who vaccinate on alternate schedules do so for the straw man reasons set up and knocked down in this article. I stand by that statement. Some parents have legitimate concerns about ingredients and/or reactions in their own families. Those concerns should be addressed, not mocked.
MRB–People who use different schedules aren’t doing them based on their personal feelings. They use them based on the idea that they don’t want to expose their child to too many toxins at a time…Dr. Sears’ schedule spreads out exposure to aluminum and mercury while ensuring all vaccines are received at appropriate times. Look at the schedule and read his reasoning before criticizing people who take this precaution.
The REAL problem needs to be addressed. It is that simple. If you want to ensure higher vax rates, then you need to be able to assure parents. To do so means to provide them with ALL information necessary to made an adequately informed decision – not just scare tactics via numbers indicating what happened many years ago without vaccines for certain diseases alone, but with those numbers, predictions as to how it pertains to today, and WITH the numbers of those harmed via the vaccines as well – but to do that means to have an adequate VAERS system as well. Nonvaccinating parents (for reasons other than medical histories and religion) aren’t criminal – they don’t have the information they need to believe otherwise! duh!http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/12/cbsnews_investigates/main4086809.shtml
mrb – you obviously missed my post indicating my children are vaccinated. I would be oh so thrilled if you promised here and now that you and your children would stay away from me and mine….you and the way you inevitably raise your children with a lack of compassion and understanding who are convinced that in their limited experiences their way is THE right way and THE only way are exactly the type of people we WANT to avoid.
iamnotblind…I promise here and now that me and my children will stay away from you and yours. That way, you see, the way I raise my son (with a lack of compassion and understanding who is CONVINCED – at 4 years old – that his limited experience is THE right way and THE only way) won’t interfere with you in any way! How’s that?By the way, you mentioned that you did NOT completely vaccinate your children smarty…so check yo’self: “…if my children choose, as adults, to receive vaccines that I withheld, which are few, then they obviously may do so.”Apparently you have insider knowledge about which vaccines are the “good” ones and which are the “bad” ones. That sounds a lot like someone with “limited experience” deciding that “their way is THE right way and THE only way”. Yup, just the type of people I want to avoid to keep my child safe. Again, your screenname. It’s really a great choice for you!
CaliMama – yes, I understand that people spread out the vaccines. What I don’t understand is on what medical evidence it’s based. I’d like to see that, not just one author’s ideas about a different schedule. I think what people (present company excluded as I don’t know what you do) forget is that there are real biological reactions going on. The dose, timing and route actually make a very big difference (with most medicines, maybe vaccines are wholly different) in the efficacy of a substance injected into the body. It just seems as if people have decided to do it “their” way. That’s ignorance. It would be like me saying I think I know how to better pilot this airplane than the Captain since I read a book about it by another pilot. Isn’t it?
In response to Getoveryourselves what information are you lacking? The only issue seems to be that your not reading and critically scrutinizing what your reading. Who is saying vaccines are bad?What are thier qualifactions to make that claim?Are they citing any sources of information that lead them to thier conclusion?If they are citing sources are those sources up to date and are they published, have they been reviewed by other professionals in the field?I’ll give you some examples that you should consider, feel free to contact the authors them selves and question thier reasoning. I’m sure of your civil they’ll be happy to respond to your questions. http://www.amazon.com/Autisms-False-Prophets-Science-Medicine/dp/0231146361http://autism-news-beat.com/http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid988092926?bctid=1507761223http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?s=autismIn reference to your comment about “toxins” could you be a little more specific because there’s a lot of them out there and I just want to be clear as to which one’s your talking about? If’ it’s thimerosal then you should know that it has already been taken out of vaccines in 2002, and autism rates have still increased unfortunately. Also just because one doctor dissents from the majority of other doctors in the medical profession does not allow for anyone to say her opinion invalidates a lot of studies that say otherwise.
mrb, you will never be able to get past your obstinance to help anyone find a solution to the REAL problem. What makes this even funnier is that you don’t even know WHICH ones I’ve withheld or passed on that they aren’t even any longer eligible for at their ages currently, which don’t apply after the age of 5, nor will be eligible for as adults. You don’t know that i declined the new vax that contains the 8 components for DTaP, IPV, and MMR, only to give them one at a time, just as was done with my other children only 6 years ago. I bet when they come out with a vaccine for AIDS or the common cold, which can both lead to pneumonia and which I will pass on until I have the information I feel I need to proceed with it, my children would be putting your kids at risk.@@. THIS is what people like you can’t ever get past. It’s all or nothing. I will give you this, the “new” ones that render you the guinea pig for the first 5 years on the market that serve as the real-world trials equal vaccines to avoid for at least 5 years. Donald, just because you believe what you choose to believe based on what you are reading and others choose to let the doubt that the medical profession and the vaccine industry they themselves created creep in, doesn’t mean you should ignore the REAL problem. The real problem isn’t that people aren’t choosing to believe different things. The real problem is in fact too many people, in individual circumstances, are told by varying medical professionals different things….one will say “You need the hep A vaccine because our food is now fertilized with human feces.” and another one will tell you “You don’t need the hepatitis A vaccine unless you were to travel.” Obviously, there could be people who choose to believe each one of these doctors, that doesn’t make that person an idiot for trusting someone they believe they can. Worse, these varying responses cause the very hysteria on the issue – the REAL problem. When people go from having their first child injected with hep B at birth to two years later being told ONLY that the hep B shot was moved to the 4-month well child visit with no explanation as to why, and then by the third child it is back to at-birth again – people question the very reason why….was it because something wound up going wrong with the one the first kid got? Some people were told that it was ONLY because too many kids missed the beginning of the series at 4 months so to ensure less kids were missed, they moved it back, and then again, you can read literature indicating that just within this year there is another hep B shot waiting approval or going through its final stages. Improvements the prior kids didn’t get or a new patent/trademark issue? Does anyone make these announcements to the very parents that NEED to know it? No. Instead they are left to seek answers from all sources, taking the pro inforamtion and combining it with the anti information trying somehow to reach a middle groun decision that they can live with. Then you have things like the Gardasil campaign that started off being based strictly on scare tactics ensuring it was only pointed out “Cervical cancer caused by a virus? Who knew?” as if it were a common cold virus floating on air. The campaign has definitely made some improvements, but they fail to point out that those who are receiving it today are a part of the trials. They also fail to point out that while approximately 11,000 women die each year from cervical cancer, the number of those who had not had routine annual screening, which is STILL the ONLY way to ensure early detection and adequate treatment. They don’t want you to know that because then all of the women flocking their daughters in for the vaccine are simply scared of the “silent killer”, and that works; it brings more people in. One thing women are all terrified of getting is cervical cancer, but they aren’t all afraid of developing liver cancer, which is what the hep B shot is supposed to also protect against — you don’t hear people calling the hep B shot “the liver cancer vaccine.” Being forthright and honest is what the system needs. Intelligent people who aren’t satisfied they need what they have to make an educated decision require nothing less. Did you ever hear/see that story about the synthetic blood study? Nobody in the public had any idea that the ONLY way to avoid becoming a part of the study in the case of a severe injury in an accident was to buy a bracelet indicating they didn’t want to take part in the study. They also did not know that once at the hospital they could request they be switched to real blood products. What’s worse, is that to conduct the study, the EMTs were required to draw a card out of an envelope upon receiving a patient in their emergency transportation vehicle to decide if THAT patient was the one who would receive it or not. THAT is NOT how you find participants in a study. It was a specific city. When they polled folks on the streets if they knew about it, they didn’t receive 1 response indicating they were aware they had to have a bracelet to wear 24/7 to not participate. There’s definitely something wrong, and it is NOT people who are not vaxing. You completely confident that the MMR shot being given tomorrow to some child doesn’t contain thimerisol? Because the stock has not yet been depleted. The only way to ensure you aren’t getting one of those is to request it and request your package insert.
IANB – Friend, I’m not trying to solve any problems here, REAL or imagined (in your and many others’ case). The only problem here is people thinking they know better than physicians and PhD scientists and basing healthcare decisions on that false sense of knowledge. You’re a perfect example – just read your paragraph to me; all kinds of manipulations of the vaccination schedule that you made based on…..still waiting for your explanation. Actually, I don’t really care…it’s your kids I worry about.Unfortunately, every time a parent decides not to vaccinate (ridiculous) it potentially harms my children. So…as per your request…let’s keep our kids separated. It’s a fine idea.
IANB – Truly, the phantom autism link aside, (for which there is nary a shred of proof after massive study into the issue by many researchers for many different companies and governments the world over for many years) what are these “REAL” problems that you and the rest are so worried about? Where’s the epidemic? Exactly what is it that you are so afraid of that you would put yours and the world’s childrens’ health in jeopardy?
Based on my physician’s advice. Unlike most others here, I am NOT focusing on autism either, so you really should quit trying to imply that I am. No idea what phantom autism link to which you are referring. It is painfully obvious you don’t care one bit about seeing the actual problem addressed – you like complaining about the resultant problem, however, and that is a real shame, not to mention a waste of time. Those who do nothing to recognize the real problem or to aid in bringing about change, have no right to complain whatsoever. Some people, however, really get off on it, as it makes them feel better, more perfect, so whatever floats your boat. The fact that you repeatedly fail to recognize the real problem behind the decline in vaccination rates is due to a problem in the system speaks volumes. Ignorance is bliss they say.
IANB – Still waiting for you to let me know what the “real” problem is. Let’s hear it – otherwise, hush.
mrb–You ask what it is based upon. I’ll give you the short version, but it is simple enough to check his website.It is based upon medical evidence that mercury and aluminum are harmful toxins and there has not been enough research to show that the amounts in vaccines are safe for children.Dr. Sears lays out a schedule based upon the idea that some diseases are more harmful and more common than others and some vaccines are more effective and safer than others.The problem with the CDC schedule is it is one size fits all. For example, if I don’t use day care then my child is extremely unlikely to need a Hep B shot. And Hep B has some of the largest dosages of aluminum of any of the vaccines. So, while the risks may outweigh the benefits for one child, for another it may not.Certainly you should know that vaccines are best used when the child is most susceptible and that boosters have to be given within certain windows–but that we’re not talking about a matter of hours (like common medications) or days…but rather several months. So, yes, you can spread out vaccines when information warrants that without reducing the effectiveness.I don’t think that being an informed part of your medical treatment is ignorance at all. As long as you rely on well cited material.Your analogy doesn’t hold. I wouldn’t try to actually perform surgery or diagnose. I read the available information and then make an informed decision. If an airline had a bad safety record, I might choose to fly with a different carrier or drive. Researching the safety record doesn’t make me ignorant, it makes me smart. Trying to fly the plan myself is what would be stupid.
Thanks CaliMama. I do understand the points you mention about vaccination schedules. I know there are alternative methods of delivery that a very small percentage of physicians support, in opposition to the “standard” vaccination schedule. I also understand that mercury and aluminum are harmful to the body, but so are chemotherapy medicines, x-rays, and other things we do/use to protect our health overall. The benefits outweight the harms. My point is that vaccines have been proven safe for the majority (the huge majority) of the human pediatric population for many years. Yes there are outliers, just like there are for anything – we’re not all clones of one another – but these are the tiny minority. So I’m not trying to address a “problem” with vaccines; there is no general problem to address. The only problem here has been created by blowing a few cases (statistically) out of proportion and a group of parents dealing with a terrible childhood disease who have settled on something as the cause in their desperation. I feel for them, I’m not an as-hole, I’m a loving parent along with my wife, but this isn’t a situation to put on kid gloves. This is the real world, and there is virtually no dispute among professionals that vaccines help far more than they may hurt. Most of us here may be professionals, but we’re not health professionals. Reading up on studies and articles does not make us thus.So, I’m still waiting to learn the “real” problem that IANB keeps pressing. Still waiting to hear what the problem is…..As for analogies, researching the airline’s safety record is always a good idea. But suppose you saw this particular carrier had two accidents over the past twenty years in which 250 were killed. Based upon this you decide, well, I don’t want to die! This airline isn’t safe! In reality, you’ve only done half your work. You need the denominator…how many people were flown without dying? Most likely it’s tens of thousands or more…yielding a rate of passenger death at some tiny percentage. Do this for all the airlines and you’ll find the same thing for each. Result: based on your inability to see the WHOLE picture you have chosen to drive – a FAR more dangerous way to travel, and have thus put yourself at more risk than had you flown. This fits with parents who say a few kids were harmed by this and ignore the millions upon millions upon millions who have not and the fact that many of the things we vaccinate against are no longer in the population as they used to be…as a DIRECT result of these dangerous vaccinations.
I’m surprised you are still asking this. One only needs to take a step back, a rational, reasonable, nonjudgmental person that is, and ask yourself, “How did we get here?” THAT is where the problem lies. It isn’t the negative or undesirable result that is the problem. Can parents go to 3 different doctors and be told 3 different things (which are also extensions of the physician’s personal beliefs and opinions formulated on their own personal experiences)? Yes = problem. Does nothing to infer confidence, only aids to confuse further. Have people lost faith in the FDA and the CDC as far as them providing you with full and accurate information? Yes = problem. Is it feasible that the DNA components of vaccines can confuse an individual’s body into not being able to distinguish between that component and one already existing in the body to where it accidentally attacks itself? Yes. Have there been studies to indicate same? Yes. Extensive studies? No. Are there children who suffer irreversible lifelong disabilities and even death from vaccines? Yes. Are parents afraid that the 1 in 10,000 could be their child? Yes. Are their disparities amongst numbers provided and the facts? Yes. Do some parents feel uncomfortable with not knowing how their unable-to-speak/communicate newborns/infants feel after a vaccine with a list of mild to moderate reactions ranging from things like nausea, vomiting, blurry vision, headache, and even seizure and death. Yes. Is the US the highly vaccinated country which also happens to have the highest incidences of autoimmune diseases a problem? Yes. Have other countries decided to forego the hep B requirement because too many children developed problems afterward? Yes. Do parents feel as though they are being asked to take a remote sacrificial chance via their children in the name of the greater good unacceptable? Yes. Are there tests performed on invidividuals prior to receiving a dose of anything harmful, even if at a safe level, to find out what their current natural levels are? No = problem. Are parents given everything they need to know to make a truly educated decision? No = problem. Will it be near impossible, and at the very least risky, to figure out which component, a child may have had a serious reaction to in a vaccine formulated to combat 8 different diseases at once a problem? Yup. If you can live with playing the game of figuring out which one your child reacted to out of 8, then please feel free to do so. Some people don’t, and based on this reason alone, those who chose to vaccinate in single vaccines are smarter than you. I can say that, even though I don’t literally break them completely down, such as the MMR or the DTaP. I am able to completely see HOW we’ve gotten to this point, and it is a complete shame to see people like you. It is your job to help them see where they may be going wrong, not criticizing them for coming to the decision/conclusion they have. The list I provided isn’t even an all-inclusive list and, yes, studies can be found, but I have no desire to get into a link-slinging exchange with you. The links you chose alone are completely unreliable. You would do better researching the medical journals, the CDC’s webste, the FDA’s website, articles pertaining to their recent problems, and the manufacturer’s websites, as well as their actual studies. As for the posting of the one doctor who deviated from the norm – it takes a braver person to step out and speak the truth than it does to be a follower. None of these people are “anti” vaccine, as you and people like you prefer to call the others. They want to see a change. They want to be reassured they are taking the least risk possible with their most prized possessions. They want to see safer vaccines. They want their mercury level checked prior to having more injected into their children, and on, and on, and on. Let me guess, you followed the guidelines to introduce your child to only one new food at a time so that any possible allergic reactions could be identified, but you don’t feel the need to do the same with your vaccines?Just to clarify once again…..these are the problems some of the people choose not to vaccinate, not all of them are my reasons for choosing a delayed and selective schedule, which was discussed in depth with my healthcare provider who had no problem sharing that he had responsibilities as a parent and then responsibilities as a physician. Last year our community had a pertussis outbreak, which occurred in mostly vaccinated individuals, and for which my youngest was still yet unapproved for vaccination – you didn’t see the world coming to an end or anybody all up in arms that my child still COULD NOT be vaxed due to his age. @@
mrb–I’m not going to defend someone else’s points…haven’t read IANB.And I’M not doing anything risky by spreading them out. Yes, the benefits of Chemo MAY outweigh the risks…IF YOU HAVE CANCER. The benefits of an X-Ray outweigh the risks IF YOU HAVE A BROKEN BONE AND AREN’T PREGNANT.So, while the benefits of MOST vaccines may outweigh the risks for MOST children…that isn’t all and all.And as I mentioned time and time again, we fully vax.The CDC recommends so many vaccines in one visit not because it is necessary to give them all at that visit, but because other parents may be unwilling or unable to bring the baby for multiple visits. My doctor actually has a well baby every month for the first six months…so since my kid is there anyway, there is no harm in spreading the vaccines out.If my baby DID have an adverse reaction, at least we’d know which shot caused it and go from there. If my baby got the MMR and two other vaccinations and had an adverse reaction, we’d have no way of knowing if it was any one of these vaccinations or the combo. If he just had the measles vaccination, we’d know that was the problem.Again, one size does not fit all and it is entirely reasonable for me to make the choice that is right for MY family and not the one that is probably right for most families.
CaliMama – points taken. Like you and most everyone here I’m sure, we’re trying to protect our kids because we love them, differences aside. Glad you vaccinate yours. Bowing out of this one…see y’all next time!
I found it interesting that the only reason you believe people don’t vaccinate is autism. Have you ever looked at other reasons? Allergies? Deficient immune systems? Do you really believe injecting disease into children can go without problems? Our daughter is partially vaccinated, but I refuse to be so naive as to think what we’ve done has the potential to cause problems. A very one-sided article.
Colorado Mom – wow, you’re misinformed. “Do you really believe injecting disease into children can go without problems?” Maybe the most ignorant and embarassing statement of all. Shame on you…educate yourself and protect your kids for chrissakes.
I think this article is very good. I think vaxs should be mandatory because this is not a personal choice for your child it’s a public health issue. Parents need to look past themselves and recognize what your decisions mean for the rest of us.
I’m not completely anti-vax, I just feel that we over vaccinate our children when they are under the age of 2. I believe it’s something like 48 shots (including flu vax) before the age of 2. I believe we should wait till they are older and spread the schedule out more. I am very against the flu shot, but that’s a whole ‘nother ball of wax.
I’m sorry…but I just can’t trust a pharmaceutical system that peddles Adderall to our kids and extremely addictive painkillers like Oxycontin and Percocet to various other patients. Prescription drugs in this country are on a whole other level. Look at an advertisement for almost any prescription drug and you will see a long list of side effects ranging from stomach bleeding to blurred vision to sudden cardiac arrest. I’m not trying to speak for anyone else here, but it freaks me out (especially when one considers that cannabis, with so many positive medicinal side effects, zero toxicity, and a nonexistent LD-50 is persecuted and forbidden….but that’s another story). I don’t claim to be a scientist, nor do I claim to know more about modern medicine than my doctor or my son’s pediatrician. I grapple with this because the last thing I want is for my beloved boy to be sick or for him to get one of his friends sick. I am not trying to step on anyone’s toes, and I can see the good that modern medicine has done. But it’s a BUSINESS like anything else. A business that has proven itself reluctant to admit its mistakes and unwary to dole out powerful and potentially harmful medicine. It was horrible to watch my father struggle with addiction after taking a DOCTOR PRESCRIBED cocktail of painkillers for his back pain. I think in retrospect, bearing the pain would have been a preferable choice. We cannot take everything that is said at face value “because they’re doctors and they know more than us”. THAT would be the ignorant thing to do. There is a lot wrong with Big Pharm. I don’t really want them injecting their products into my baby. One more note– I am very tired of the people who adopt a “Come on you idiots, can’t you understand science? Science has proven it so it must be true, and anyone who doesn’t believe it must be a redneck bible-thumping ignoramous. You disagree with me? You didn’t go to college did you? My DOCTOR who went to college for TWELVE YEARS says it’s true so it must be and what do you know???” Come on people. Medicine is a constantly evolving science. We do not grasp all the subtleties of human life and the human body by any stretch of the imagination. The sooner we stop pretending that we have got it all figured out, the better off our kids will be. There is so much we still don’t know. I don’t need a PhD to figure that out.
So, if we are to believe Kate, we’re supposed to trust medical sources rather than the internet? Hmmh…
Check out Dr Mark Hyman’s article ‘Dangerous Spin Doctors: 7 Steps to Protect Yourself from Deception’.
http://drhyman.com/dangerous-spin-doctors-7-steps-to-protect-yourself-from-deception-2407/
In spite of what Dr Hyman says, wouldn’t write off medical sources altogether, as he’s after all a doctor as well.
Check out these:
“Whooping Cough infections are common in an immunized population.”
Journal of the American Medical Association, 1998
“In 1979 Sweden abandoned the whooping cough vaccine. Out of 5,140 cases in 1978, it was found that 84% had been vaccinated three times.”
British Medical Journal 283:696-697, 1981
“For an individual child the risk is greater from the whooping cough vaccine than the disease.”
Dr. Joanne Hatem, Medical Director, Vaccine National Information Center, Virginia
“In the USA in 1978, they mandated vaccination it resulted in a three fold increase in the reported incidence of whooping cough.”
Viera Scheibner PhD showing graphs from Tokai Journal of Experimental Biology and Medicine, 1988
In The New England Journal of Medicine July 1994 issue a study found that over 80% of children under five years of age who had contracted whooping cough had been fully vaccinated.
“Dutch scientists are struggling to identify the exact cause of an epidemic of whooping cough that has swept throughout the country despite vaccination rates as high as 96% (“despite” or because of?) Similar problems are being reported in Norway and Denmark.”
British Medical Journal, 1998
“Measles transmission has been clearly documented amongst vaccinated persons. In large outbreaks over 95% of cases have a history of vaccination.”
Admission by Dr. William Atkinson, Senior Epidemiologist, CDC
“Among school age children, measles outbreaks have occurred in schools with vaccine levels greater than 98%. These outbreaks have occurred in all parts of the country, including areas that have not reported measles for years.”
Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report 2/19/89
“In 1990, the Journal of the American Medical Association had an article stating, Although more than 95% of school-aged children in the U.S. are vaccinated against measles, large measles outbreaks continue to occur in schools and most cases in this setting occur among previously vaccinated children.”
JAMA, 11/21/90
“The apparent paradox is that as measles immunization rates rise to high levels in a population, measles becomes a disease of immunized persons.”
Review article: 50 REFS. Dept. of Internal Medicine, Mayo Vaccine Research Group, Mayo Clinic and Foundation, Rochester, MN./ Archives of Internal Medicine. 154 (16):1815-20, 8/22/94
“By the government’s own admission, there has been a 41% failure rate in persons who were previously vaccinated against the measles virus.”
Dr. Anthony Morris, ‘Occurance of Measles in Previously Vaccinated Individuals.’ 1979
In the 1970s a tuberculosis vaccine trial in India involving 260,000 people revealed that more cases of TB occurred in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated.
The Lancet, 1/12/80 p. 73
In Oman between 1988 and 1989, a polio outbreak occurred amongst thousands of fully vaccinated children. The region with the highest attack rate had the highest vaccine coverage. The region with the lowest attack rate had the lowest vaccine coverage.
The Lancet, 9/21/91
“When WHO officials discovered a polio outbreak in Nigeria was sparked by the polio vaccine itself they assumed it would be easier to stop than the natural “wild” virus. They were wrong…The virus in the vaccine can mutate into a deadlier version that ignites new outbreaks.”
‘Polio Surge in Nigeria after Vaccine Virus Mutates’ Associated Press, 8/14/09 (also see: Vaccines: Helping or Harming The Third World)
As far as I am concerned, vaccination is an organised criminal enterprise dressed up as disease prevention.
Here are two recommended links:
Vaccines Uncensored
The aim of this website is to encourage the public to question deeply entrenched assumptions regarding the necessity, safety, efficacy and historical record …
http://www.vaccinesuncensored.org/index.php
‘Vaccination Information Network’ (VINE) Facebook – 10000 fans
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Vaccination-Information-Network-VINE/69667273997?v=wall
Hello! bekadce interesting bekadce site!
Haha, shouldn’t you be charngig for that kind of knowledge?!
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) exposes the US Center for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) role in deliberately lying about a clear link between vaccines and autism
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/034038_vaccines_autism.html#ixzz1cfoW5OxC
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/034038_vaccines_autism.html#ixzz1cfoGJ4vUhttp://www.naturalnews.com/034038_vaccines_autism.html