Parents Sue to Keep Kids From Having to Be Nice to Gays
You know all those schools being sued for NOT protecting kids from bullying? A California school district is another boat going in the other direction. Parents are suing the Alameda schools for requiring their kids learn to BE NICE to other kids. Gasp!
Of course these kids aren’t any old kids – they’re lesbian, gay and transgender kids who the school district dares to think should be protected from getting their asses kicked on the playground. Yes, dear readers, they’re teaching kids to be nice to the fags!
And their parents want none of it. They’re suing on the basis of religious freedom to keep their kids OUT of the anti-bullying workshops. The district has thus far said no to requests that their kids be allowed to opt out, prompting the parents to decry indoctrination into the gay lifestyle.
Because a teacher telling your kid not to call the other kid a queer is tantamount to telling your son to go kiss the other little boy on the lips, right?
I’m willing to grant that not everyone “agrees” with homosexuality (whether or not I agree with THEM is another issue). But I’m hard-pressed to see how telling kids not to say hurtful things to other kids, not to physically hurt other kids, etc. is indoctrination into another lifestyle. I wouldn’t let my child kick an evangelical Christian . . . that doesn’t mean I’m training her to become one.
If these parents are so afraid their kids are going to encounter a bit of gayness in the world, I think it’s time they home school, how ’bout you?
Image: partnership for children
More Insanity:
While I do agree with you that not saying mean things should be a part of a religious lifestyle, I’m willing to bet that the workshops go a bit further than “a teacher telling your kid not to call the other kid a queer.” Minimum, the workshops will say that homosexuality is a normal state of affairs, just like being black or brown. I’m guessing (though I could be wrong) that *that* is where the complaints of indoctrination are coming from. I don’t see why the parents wouldn’t be allowed to opt out, which does, in fact make it sound like forced indoctrination.
Regardless of my religious beliefs, I’d be a little ticked if my children’s supposedly academic hours were wasted on social reeducation like this.
Link broken, here’s the same article (I think): http://www.mercurynews.com/alamedacounty/ci_13054270
Its very difficult to not be in the public school system. It costs a great deal of time/money to go to a private school or home school. Even if you do, you still pay for public school through your taxes. Schools should not be forcibly indoctrinating kids to believe something different than their parents. If they said that you shouldn’t pick on kids for being gay, fine. If they say, being gay is completely normal and should be accepted, not fine. That is where you tread on someone’s religious freedom. Would you want your children taught by the public school that being gay is immoral and sinful? Its always interesting to me that the schools so concerned with making sure they preach tolerance are also such overwhelming failures. Alameda County Community School (the district where this is going on) graduates between 85-90% of their students…. with 35% and 37% of them being considered proficient in english and math respectively. Alameda county has bigger fish to fry.
http://www.city-data.com/school/alameda-county-community-ca.html
http://rtr.edtrustwest.org/query2.php
That’s good point, ChiLaura. It’s about time that ALL socialization is removed from public school, which, as everyone knows, have purely academic aims.
Given the recent student comments in my city college Abnormal Psych class about how “fags”, “dykes”, and “queers” don’t deserve any “special protections”, I’d say we need those anti-bullying programs right up through the college level. The fag, dyke, and queer students in class that day certainly didn’t feel like they were studying in a safe & welcoming environment – a fact that several of them voiced, which I thought was fantastic and brave since not all of them were openly “out”. The FTM transguy’s testimony about dropping out of high school at age 15 in order not to be beaten up every other day, then living on the streets of Lincoln NE before coming up to Chicago to go through SRS treatment… well, he certainly took a risk by outing himself there in class. I hope his willingness of sacrifice his privacy after all eh went through in his teenage years educated a few of those knobs and left them respecting humanity a little more.
Anyway: ChiLaura, GLBT children everywhere are constantly subjected to indoctrination that leaves them feeling like they are subhuman and sick and have no place in society. They CAN’T opt out of it, and they suffer horribly as a result of other childrens’ homophobic bullying, teasing, or simple lack of empathy and understanding. If parents don’t want your children attending school with little GLBT kids, then they should homeschool them (and pray their children are not GLBT themselves). If parents are going to send their children to school with other children, they’re obligated to ensure that their child’s behavior is not making school miserable or dangerous for any other student. Since too few parents are willing or know how to speak with their children directly about LGBT issues and anti-bullying measures, these programs are being implemented. My guess is that the kids who need them most are the ones whose parents are freaking out about them.
“I wouldn’t let my child kick an evangelical Christian . . . that doesn’t mean I’m training her to become one.”
Exactly! I am sick of religious freedom meaning it’s ok to do awful things.
Also, what Lula said!!
I’d be ticked if my children’s supposedly academic hours were wasted on protecting themselves against next verbal or physical blow from some other child with a bad attitude about homosexuality and gender variance. Sadly, that is the reality for GLBT children, straight children with GLBT family and friends, and children who want to stand up to homophobic bullies but don’t know how to do that without becoming victims themselves. Think of the academic hours wasted by all that fear and anxiety, and how mandating these anti-bullying programs gives that time back for all children’s education.
Morals should be taught at home not at school. Although we are not religious I would be opting out as well. The only reason schools are doing this moral education is to avoid lawsuits. They really dont give a fig about your kids fitting in or being bullied. Teaching tolerance is the job of the parent, not the school. Are they teaching tolerance or point how just how different these different kids are. I dont want my kids wasting time they could spend learning academics on learning how to be nice. Instead of this touchy feely crap how about we put the responsibility where it belongs – on the school. They should protect kdis from bullying, not our kids. We leave our kids with them and expect them to be safe. It is up to the school to watch and listen. Everytime there is a case of severe bullying the schools say, “But we have a strong anti-bullying campaign here. Zero tolerance.” Then they are off the hook. Demand more oversight from the staff not brainwashing of kids.
Ali, is it brainwashing to teach tolerance? What about the kids who simply DON’T get that message at home? Shouldn’t other kids be safe from their bullying? Sometimes cumulative teasing and harassment can go undetected by adults and might be just as damaging over time as isolated incidents of “severe bullying.” The school’s role has always been to teach more than just reading, writing and arithmetic. In kindergarten children learn to share and take turns. That education in being a cooperative member of society doesn’t need to stop after age 5.
I’m really hard-pressed to see where anyone can pull a “morality” card out of anti-bullying measures. The way I see it, schools are trying to take MORE responsibility for creating and maintaining a safe educational environment by mandating anti-bullying workshops. It’s like fire drills. Schools make all students learn what to do if there’s a fire, so fewer students are hurt if there ever is one. You don’t allow parents to opt their kids out of fire drills because they’re upsetting or because they object to time being taken away from academics – it’s a safety issue, and one that affects everyone in the school. Same with bullying.
And of COURSE teachers and administrators should be protecting students from bullying, whether the bullying is homophobic or racist or targeting children with physical or learning disabilities. But when you’ve still got teachers using homophobic slurs or gender-based insults to goad kids (anyone remember their own gym teachers and extracurricular athletics coaches? I do), and teachers who are willing to overlook comments like “That’s gay!” or “Shut up, fag!” in the classroom, then obviously additional measures are needed. We all know that the way it still is in schools. Teachers and administrators need the training every bit as much as the students do.
I love the concern for learning over “touchy feely crap” when it comes to those who would opt out of this program for their kids. However, there’s no concern for the kids who are terrorized by bullies other than “it’s the responsibility of the school.” Like bullies are doing it out in the open. Nice abdication of your responsibilities as parent.
Right on, MS.
It’s so bizarre that people who would likely support anti-bullying measures if the bullying was racial or disability-related go all angsty when it comes to homosexuality and gender. It’s like people WANT homophobia to continue unchecked in school environments – perhaps because they believe that GLBT students deserve it? Or that social punishment will help “cure” them of gayitude in some mystical way, instead of make their lives even harder than they already are? Or is it just that these parents are too afraid to examine the messages their children are getting from the family, and don’t want schools to lead children to question the bigotry being taught at home?
If not, I see no reason why even self-professed Christian parents would object to having schools take responsibility for providing anti-bullying training in schools. Like Jeanne said in her piece, no one’s teaching children to *be* GLBT – they’re just teaching children that it’s wrong to be mean to GLBT people.
Hey, here’s an idea: Why don’t they just teach a class on why bullying of any kind, against any person, is bad and leave the proselytizing out of it? That’s what GLAAD is for, not taxpayer dollars. Why focus the class on gay, lesbian, transgendered related bullying? Are these kids the only ones who are bullied in school? I seem to recall in my day that kids get bullied for any number of reasons, more reasons that I can count. Is the school district going to force kids to take a special class dealing with every issue out there? What about kids of mixed ethnicity, kids with learning disabilities, overweight kids, kids who stutter, kids who have the wrong sneakers on? Do they all get their own class because they’re different? The Alameda school district should just focus on teaching respect: teach students that all people are different, that those differences should be respected, and that bullying will not be tolerated. That’s it. No moralizing, no trying to convert people to one point of view or another.
Because when “comprehensive anti-bullying” efforts were tried, homophobia was mysteriously left off the list of issues to address. We’d all love it if the wrongness of GLBT-specific bullying was implicit in anti-bullying measures, but so far people do not seem willing to go there without a specific mandate.
Case in point: I taught for a year in a public K-8 here in Chicago. The school said it had a strict No Bullying policy, and the policy was *always* enforced WRT racial slurs and other racial incidents. When I sent students to the Disciplinary Office for using homophobic slurs, I was told I was “over-reacting”, that calling each other Fag and Dyke was “normal for the age group”, etc. The behavior that creates a negative (and even dangerous) environment for GLBT students was simply not considered a problem by the administration, or by the majority of teacher in that school. So yes, I absolutely believe that GLBT-specific anti-bullying measures need to be mandated, because adults are not taking responsibility for making schools safe for all the students OR for enforcing already-existing No Bullying policies when the bullying is homophobic in nature.
It’s also worth noting that the students I attempted to discipline were often totally bewildered by my efforts. They simply did not understand why it was hurtful and wrong to use homophobic slurs, or to harass students who were perceived to be GLBT. This leads me to believe that parents aren’t doing their jobs at home WRT teaching basic manners, that homophobic indoctrination is so deep that parents alone cannot mitigate the impact enough to alter their children’s behavior, or that students perceive schools to be a safe place to act out homophobic BS against other kids. Most likely it’s a combination of all those + many other factors – but regardless, it’s plain to me that schools are in the best position AND have a responsibility to respond.
I suppose we can drop the anti-bullying classes, or allow people to opt their kids out – if kids who bully other kids are kicked out of school and denied public eduction. However, since most people would say that is unfair, I suppose we need the classes.
Lula, thanks for explaining the issue so cogently and your perspective “from the inside!”
Lula, totally agree that GLBT issues should be addressed in any anti-bullying effort. But if the district failed to include GLBT-related bullying issues in the 1st program (and I have no idea why it would have been as the school district is in Northern CA) then they should have another anti-bullying class and include it as a topic with specifics of what will not be tolerated, as was most likely done with racial slurs, and make sure the administration has a clear understanding of same for purposes of punishment. I am totally supportive of same-gender families and the GLBT community, but I also fiercely believe that schools should not practice social or cultural engineering. Yes, kids 100% need to be taught to be respectful, but the school district needs to stop there and be mindful and respectful of parents’ rights too. The GLBT specific bullying can be addressed without the school district taking a stance on the moral rightness or wrongness of GLBT issues and this is what I think lies at the heart of the debate. Otherwise, why would they focus an entire class around the subject?
If we’re insisting on talking about morality: What else do you think a school district is doing when it takes a policy stance against racism? Schools that implement and enforce anti-bullying policies WRT racism are taking the moral stance that it is wrong to subject students to an educational environment that is unsafe based on racial identity, right? Same with disability status – such policies communicate that a school does not tolerate unsafe behavior toward students with intellectual and/or physical disabilities. And we all agree with these policies, as far as I can tell. If we’re looking at it from a moral perspective, we’re seeing schools say “It is morally and ethically wrong to subject students to harassment based on race, ethnicity, or disability status”. This is considered a positive moral and ethical stance, yes? Are we all in agreement on this?
So then, what possible objection can people have to schools taking the stance that it is morally and ethically wrong for students to be harassed because of real or perceived GLBT status, or affiliation with GLBT people? How is that objectionable as a moral stance, if the other examples of “moral stance” are considered appropriate and positive?
And Jan – if you believe that schools should not practice social or cultural engineering, then how do you justify supporting anti-racist policies and efforts in schools? Race and racism are social and cultural constructs. People who engage in both active pro-racist activities *and* active anti-racist activities are engaging in social and cultural engineering. How is a school supposed to simultaneously avoid socio-cultural engineering AND create/maintain safe educational environments for all the students who are entitled to receive an education through the district? It’s not possible, nor do I believe it is desirable.
“However, there’s no concern for the kids who are terrorized by bullies other than “it’s the responsibility of the school.” Like bullies are doing it out in the open. Nice abdication of your responsibilities as parent.”
Exactly – and if my kid is getting bullied because some other parent is abdicating their responsibilities, or feels my kid is somehow less of a person, why would I not expect the schools to try and stop it – whether through punishment or education. Personally, I don’t care if your hating kids gets kicked out of school, but I’d rather he be taught tolerance.
I’m certainly not going to try and educate someone else’s kid in tolerance. I’ve got my hands full raising my own kids.
“Why don’t they just teach a class on why bullying of any kind, against any person, is bad and leave the proselytizing out of it?” Totally agree with Jan on this one. If a program mandates that tolerance of sexual preference is part of a broader range of topics, fine; then it should be included. And if it’s left out, as Lula experienced, then that should be rectified. But a special class just for this? Are we to have special tolerance classes for everything? And we wonder why US schools are about the shittiest in the developed world?
I would be very interested to know if the kids whose parents want to pull them from the class are the kids who are actually doing the bullying. I was raised in a Christian home; I knew that it was wrong to bully or to make fun of people. My large group of friends all knew the same. WE weren’t the ones bullying anybody, and I’m willing to bet that my parents would’ve pulled me out of any gay tolerance class. I’m curious to know if these particular Christian kids are the problem, or if the real problem are kids who come from homes with truly bad parents and who behave aggressively in general. Lula, in her 1:59 post, seems to believe that the Christian kids are practically being taught to bully at home, but I see nothing in Jeanne’s post that would
indicate that that’s the case.
On a somewhat similar note, regarding this particular situation: If a parent wanted to sit in on this mandatory class so that s/he could discuss it with the child afterward, would s/he be able to? If yes, I guess that I would consider this somewhat of a “necessary evil”; it might just be better to give up a legal fight go a simpler route. At the same time, if a concerned parent wouldn’t be allowed into the class? I would find that just creepy, as in, way too much state control. I also find Jeanne’s and others view that parents *shouldn’t* be able to opt out to be way too statist; such views essentially accede control of their children to the state. This may be a rather harmless example, but where does it stop?
@Eric
It sucks that parents who want to send kids to private schools still have to pay for public school through their taxes. I mean, it’s not like all the adults who don’t have kids are paying the same taxes. How fair would it be if you have to pay taxes for the fire department, before your house even catches on fire? It’s completely unfair. What do I care about other people’s Social Security or Medicare? Luckily, all my Social Security taxes are being saved up for when I retire.
You’re also spot on that it’s not right to teach kids to accept other kids sexual orientation. I want my kids to know your kids suck, and purposely ostracize your kids. I don’t mean for my kids to bullying your kids, just everything up to that line. Not invite them to parties, make them feel unwelcome at school events, have all my kids friends do the same. Look, if your kids can’t handle being lepers they are, then they’ll never succeed in life. Who knows, maybe your kids can start their own little clique — I hear having small little cliques is the best environment for a school.
While we’re at it, why do schools teach children that women are equal to men. Let’s face it, most religions don’t treat women equally. Most groups of Catholics (women can’t be priests), Judaism (women can’t be rabbi), and Muslims(need anymore be said) all teach that woman are different and generally less capable, than men. Honestly, if the boys want to beat the girls, so they stay in line, it’s their religious freedom to do so. Even telling them not to bully is crossing the line.
Not to mention that science classes should be removed of all material that offends my religious sensibilities. To be fair, it should be filtered of material that offends every parent’s religious beliefs. Let’s just keep it simple, and remove the class together.
They don’t need a class, they need a zero tolerance policy for bullying. You do it…verbal, physical, whatever. You’re ass is OUT. Personally, I love gays and think that its just another choice people make…or not, if they can’t choose, I don’t know. But its not my business what people do in that respect.
ChiLaura,
If you’re looking for someone who was bullied by Christian students for being queer, I will raise my hand. I was bullied for being queer AND for not being Christian. I was bullied by kids who came from good homes, who went on to good schools. I was beat up, spat on, and threatened. My Christian teachers and Christian school administrators did not take it seriously, and so it continued. I don’t resent all Christians for the actions of a few, but I am here to attest that religion can indeed be the justification that some otherwise well-behaved children need to bully those who are queer or non-Christian.
Perhaps I should mention – this was in an public school system. In Connecticut.
I was born and raised in a Christian Nazarene home. I’m no longer part of the church partially because of crap like this. I’m sick and tired of evangelicals demanding everyone live like they do. This is sick that these “Christians” think it’s okay to bully gay kids. How very Christian of you. Religion teaches intolerance. If you want intolerance to stop GET RID OF ALL RELIGION. Separation between church and state folks. And if you are all for church to be involved with state then you have to be okay will ALL religions dictating the state, not just YOUR religion. This is not a Christian country. Many of the founding fathers down right despised organized religion. So all you that are complaining that you want your America back, The native Americans want their country back too. We stole it from them. How about we start there “Christian Nation”…yeah right.
Kids shouldn’t be taught in public school that being gay is ok, just like they shouldn’t be taught that being black or asian is ok. I mean, what’s next, telling young boys that girls are their equals??? these darned liberals think it’s a good thing to teach young kids that regardless of how you feel about other people’s ways of being, that you shouldn’t be allowed to kick or punch them. what a bunch of pansies.
I’ll raise my hand too, if hands need to be raised. I was a Queer, feminist, gender-atypical public school student in South Dakota in the 80s – *and* a practicing Christian, FWIW. My gender-variant boyfriend and I were routinely harassed because we were not conforming to how God wanted men and women to dress or behave. Self-professed Christian girls would not come into the school bathroom if I was in there. Self-professed Christians would cross the street in order to remove themselves from our paths. I do not know the religious affiliation of the yahoos who threw cans of beer at us while driving past in trucks, but you get the picture. Ah, how I miss that “Christian State”!
I wish I could say it’s better now, in this large city in the late 2000s. But we’ve got a whole population of GLBT kids on the streets because their Christian parents kicked them out of the house, and many more kids enduring mental and physical violence that eventually leads many to drop out and cut their educations short. No one, secular or religious, has the right to so grossly mistreat children and youth because of their sexual or gender orientation. I don’t care if you’re Christian, atheist, Muslim, Buddhist, or Zororastrian – we all marinate in a culture that condones violence against sexual and gender minorities, and therefore specialized training is required to enable schools to keep students victimized by such violence safe. If everyone was comfortable talking about and hearing about GLBT-specific safety concerns, the supposedly “comprehensive” programs would be sufficient. But they’re not. Trust me on this one, as a former teacher and a great big Queer.
As for religious parents who deeply, sincerely believe homosexuality and gender variance are grievious sins – I think such parents need to be exceedingly mindful and direct in communicating behavior expectations to your children, and to back it up with example and with correction. If you’re going to walk the “Love the sinner, hate the sin” line, you need to implement your own zero-tolerance policy re: homophobic slurs and general bad attitude toward GLBT people in the home. You also need to empower your children to follow the example of Jesus, Mohammad, or whoever in terms of standing up to bullies who are targeting open and perceived GLBT kids. Unless you as a person hold somewhere within the belief that GLBT people really *do* deserve persecution because they are so horribly in violation of God’s Law, you’ll do the extra work necessary to help your kids navigate the conflicting messages religion may be giving them about the inherent humanity and worth of GLBT people.
And your children probably already know about homosexuality, and they probably already know in what esteem you personally hold GLBT people. Opting them out of anti-bullying classes isn’t going to shield them from such knowledge.
CommentsI agree with Once Bullied. I too grew up gay in the public school system, just north of Portland, OR. I was fortunate that I was never beaten up, mostly because I was one of the biggest kids in school. I was in FFA, choir, and drama. You might think that the hicks and cowboys would be the worst in their treatment of us “queer” kids. I never had problems with them, even after I started coming out in 10th grade. For me, the worst comments came from the evangelical christians at my school, of which there were many. I don’t think most of them were meant to be hurtful, but the cumulative effect of hearing day in and day out “why don’t you just ask jesus to take it away?” wears on a person’s psyche and can drive you into deep and lasting depression. When you don’t view yourself as having the same worth as other kids because you are “different” or percieved to be “different” you do worse in school, have a higher dropout rate and much higher suicide rate. I was fortunate that I was able to find a good support network of friends in school. Many gays kids don’t have that luxury, and school is often the only place they can go to feel safe. Especially if they are a gay kid growing up in a home that constantly pounds into their heads that gays are evil and going to hell. School often serves more than just the purpose of teaching children the three R’s. It also teaches them to live and behave in civilized society. All you need to do to see that this is neccesary is to observe children in restauraunts. A majority of parents maintain control of their kids in public arenas like that but yu invariably see some kids running wild and generally ruining the experience for others. These are the kids programs like these are for.
For whatever it’s worth, I have major problems with the actions of the Christians recounted above. I’m not evangelical and I’m not a fan of evangelical culture. While I certainly can’t say that I’m perfect (ha!), I do think that the whole biblical passage about “faith without works is dead” gets ignored way too often in evangelical Christianity. From my experience, there is so much focus in ev. Chr. on “where your heart is” that one’s actions are separated from good intent (i.e. good intentions justify poor, or horrible, behavior).
“I think such parents need to be exceedingly mindful and direct in communicating behavior expectations to your children, and to back it up with example and with correction.” Lula, I completely agree with you on this.
“If you want intolerance to stop GET RID OF ALL RELIGION. Separation between church and state folks.” Chinch, the Nazis, Stalinists and Communist China all tried this. Those were the bloodiest regimes in history. For all the bad done in the name of Christianity and other religions, it pales in comparison to paganist and atheist regimes.
The Christians who gave us a hard time in South Dakota were primarily Lutherans, Baptists, and Presbyterians. Maybe there were some Evangelicals in there too, but the “modest dress” girls were always nice to me despite my general freakishness. YMMV.
“But I’m hard-pressed to see how telling kids not to say hurtful things to other kids, not to physically hurt other kids, etc. is indoctrination into another lifestyle.”
It definitely is indoctrination into a different lifestyle – a lifestyle based on tolerance of others. Definitely different from lifestyles based on homophobia, fear and hatred.
Here’s the thing, folks: when you send your child to public school you give up certain rights. Implicit in the act of sending your child to a school is your consent that the school can do what it deems necessary to educate and protect your child. Sure, you can go to school board meetings and complain, but if the school sees enough of a problem with this issue that they are teaching a class on it you don’t stand a chance. The rights of children who go to the school to be in a harassment free safe learning environment trump religious freedom (and that’s a precedent set and upheld by the Supreme Court). So if a school thinks that they need to teach something in order to protect the well being of the members of the student population, you can suck an egg.
And if you dislike gays and are teaching your kids the same you can suck it anyway.
To all of those saying that the anti-bullying program is wasting academic hours, I submit to you the following. High schools are day care systems for teenagers. The concepts taught in school are simple and drawn out twice as long as needed to be taught. Any real education occurring happens on the student’s own accord. Any resourceful person would be able to pick up the information lost in 90 min. workshop in half an hour on their own time. And that could easily be done if people didn’t waste their children’s time at home by forcing them to do needless and time consuming religious practices. High schools will accommodate the lowest bitter just to get graduation rates up, leaving any real academic pursuits to the child’s own initiative.
@Lula: Am I to understand that kids in grade school (k – 8) are considered gay? At what age are kids considering themselves gay?
“And if you dislike gays and are teaching your kids the same you can suck it anyway.”
Yup.
Forcing kids to take part in this exercise, validates the lifestyle, and to some parents, thats not right, and their kids shouldnt be forced to attend the workshops.
The freedom to practice religion is not a right to impose it on others, including your own young children who aren’t mature enough to decide what to believe. Parents shouldn’t have a right to abuse their children with hateful ideas toward others and justify it with claims about religious persecution.
In regard to Ali’s comments that morals should be taught at home: we are not just talking about morals here, but assault. To physically strike someone, no matter the reason, is assault and its a crime. When you grow up, you can be put in jail for it. I would love to have had this kind of workshop in my son’s school because he got bullied and NO ONE did anything about it. It was not based on gender variance, it was because he was a brainy, nerdy kid.
Yes morals and the law should be taught at home but as several have said here, what if it isn’t? Should the rest of us just suck it up because someone did not do their job at home? Many of these so-called Christians are taught in their churches to be unaccepting of certain types of people: gays and lesbians, people who follow other religions, people who aren’t Christian enough, etc. And they teach it at home. I know, I have met many here in the south where I live that are taught that very thing and feel no compunction about acting it out in school and anywhere else they think they have the right to discriminate. Its high time we stopped protecting abusive behavior when it hides behind religious belief. We need to stop walking on eggshells around these Christians like they crap gold or something. They are just people and there is no protection in the consitution for bullying just because your religion deems it okay, which, by the way, it doesn’t.
These parents who don’t want to have their kids participate in the workshop have other options – private school or, as others have said, homeschool. I homeschool to keep my son AWAY from the kind of people who seem to think its fine to bully others.
MT: Child development research is demonstrating that children’s gender identity (sense of self as a boy or a girl) between the ages of about 2 and 4. This means that children who are transgender often express a gender identity that does not match their biological sex as early as preschool age – some as soon as they are verbal. I get to spend time with some very young transkids, and they are pretty amazing in their ability to recognize and explain “who they are” even when they are tiny.
Sexual orientation (sense of emotional and sexual attracted to males or female) develops more slowly because it is linked with child sexual development, but most children begin to identify opposite-sex or same-sex attraction between the ages of about 7 and 12. This is true for heterosexual kids as well as children who will go on to identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual. So yes, some children are going through a self-identification and initial coming-out process as early as elementary school. I myself recognized that I was attracted to both boys and girls in 4th grade, around age 10. Other people take longer to identify their sexual orientation, or to come to terms with it. For a certain percentage of people, both gender ID and sexual orientation are so fluid that they really don’t “settle” on any fixed identity, though they may not be publicly open about it.
The researchers at University of MN-Twin Cities School of Medicine are publishing great research about all this. You can look up Dr. Walter Bockting, Dr. Eli Coleman, and Dr. “Bean” Robinson if you want to read some of their papers.
Everyone keeps harping on this class just about tolerance for GLBT issues (which I don’t particularly object to), but I haven’t seen anything about the actual curriculum for this class.
According to the CA Safe Schools Coalition, the law causing this controversy “prohibits discrimination and harassment on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity in California public schools… amend[ing] the state Education Code by ADDING actual or perceived sexual orientation and gender identity to EXISTING SECTIONS on discrimination.”
This makes it sound to me as though any of this will simply be in addition to existing anti-bullying and anti-discrimination efforts. I also hardly think that teaching not to harass based on sexual orientation necessitates teaching that it is an acceptable lifestyle. For example, if I were a parent, I would teach my children that the KKK is abhorrent, but that they nevertheless have the right to their own views and should not be discriminated against. I’m not teaching acceptance of it, just that they are also citizens of this country, who have equal protections under the law.
For those that place the responsibility on the parents: Obviously, you care enough to raise your own children, but you must also be intelligent enough to understand that a large number of children barely even see their parents, or see parents that just don’t care, or see parents that teach them to be cruel to those who are different. Should it be the job of parents? Sure. But we’ve certainly come to accept that not all parents live up to the standards of society. In high school, I had to take a class that taught me how to write a check. If parents can’t even handle that, I don’t trust parents to teach tolerance either.
Finally, for those who object to the time taken away from academics: I highly doubt that this is going to be some long-term recurring coursework. It will probably be some one-hour special seminar, or five minutes a week, or some other miniscule amount of time in comparison to the entire curriculum. If you really want to criticize something for wasting time, how about looking into No Child Left Behind, and the way we now teach to two standards: 1. the lowest common denominator so that it’s not too hard for them, and 2. standardized tests, which are all that matters even though they show nothing at all about how successful a school is.
Jackieboy, I wouldn’t suggest getting me started on the rather off topic discussion of how our taxes are collected and how they are used in general. That said, teaching kids that homosexuality is moral is in and of itself is a moral judgement. You could just as easily teach the kids that homosexuality is immoral and evil. I wouldn’t advocate either one as its none of the school’s business to tell kids what morals they should adopt. I was bullied in high school by kids that weren’t gay, christian, or of some particular ethnic group. I would suggest that we teach kids that bullying behavior will not be tolerated, regardless of who is doing it to whom. Don’t call kids names, don’t cause them harm, and don’t generally treat them like crap. I think we could all agree on that message, couldn’t we?
[...] Parents Sue to Keep Kids From Having to Be Nice to Gaysblogs.babble.com [...]
You, and those like you have no right to interfere with the moral upbringing of children not your own. None of my children ever “acted out” toward sexual deviants, if they had they would have learned a lesson in proper behaviour from their parents that would not have been soon forgotten. However under no condition would I have ever allowed my children to be in the classroom being subjected to homosexual indoctrination in the name of the idol of secularity so worshipped by the current death cult of the leftist elites. As for *sneeringly* asserting that parents not wishing to have their children traumatised by inappropriate exposure to adult deviants discussing subjects that have no place in a classroom, better that you should remember that we (hetero-normative persons) pay the lion’s share of taxes to support those self-same schools. It is the obligation of the school boards to be certain that they do not allow a corrupting, non-educational curricula to displace the real duty of the institution; real academic education, not a socialist sex-mad agenda.
@MT I’m a 26-year-old gay man, and it took me until I was about 20 to verbally tell another human being that I was gay. However, I pretty much knew by the time I was 9 or 10 that I was romantically (though not necessarily sexually) interested in the same gender. I had had no label for or concept of what this made me at the time. It was just my reaction to the environment that I grew up in that came naturally (we never talked about being gay at home, and I never associated the Gay Pride Parade on TV with my feelings of attraction toward boys and men). It wasn’t until I entered middle school (6th grade) that I suddenly felt afraid of being myself anymore, and my peers and some of my teachers made me feel continually ashamed of not being “masculine” enough in my behavior. I believed that I would never really be happy in life because I’d be either friendless and gay or married to a woman while never being romantically (or sexually) interested in her (it’s not like I didn’t try in high school). This was also around the time that I became hyper-aware of my racial identity, too. I thought that I was racially the same as my classmates until I was informed by my friends’ parents that I was in fact Chinese (like it was a bad thing to be Chinese-American). Oftentimes in middle school, I would hide behind my identity as an Asian boy (assumed to be smart, quiet, and shy) to avoid being bullied for being a gay boy (assumed to be talkative, weak, and effeminate), so I talked very little growing up and that seemed to solve everything.
I’d say that the biggest external pressures that my family has experienced in my hometown actually concerned the expectation to be culturally assimilated to mainstream American culture (i.e. reject my parents’ Hong Kong ways), to embrace only conventional lifestyles, to ignore the existence of any human identity that falls short of these expectations, and (not trivially!) to be most preferential to specifically christian values. Race, cultural identification, sexual orientation, or religious background, it’s all connected in a kid’s world. But my point is this: I had been told what my roles in society were before I even hit puberty (“gay” was not an option), yet my self-identification with something that I knew was taboo made me a very emotionally-isolated teenager. I never really made genuine friends. I would have been much happier as a kid if I had been encouraged to discover what kind of person I was throughout grades K-8 and had the confidence to present the kind of individual I wanted to be to my peers. And shouldn’t that be one of the objectives of public educators: to ensure that our young people are happy, self-aware, and responsible individuals with a capacity to understand virtually any subject matter beyond what they are told at first glance? This is the single most important value that my Kindergarten teacher instilled in me that helped me succeed in college and continue on into graduate school (I’m the first in my family to pursue a PhD). But I’m probably very lucky to have overcome my fear of myself…
By the way, I grew up in Northern CA (Silicon Valley) in the ’90s. My hometown is only about 30 mins. away from Alameda Co..
I also hate Christians/Muslim/Jews and all the rest of weak minded people. I would like to opt out of Religious tolerance and be able to tell all those people what i really think of them.
@jon: You say that being romantically attracted to the same sex was “just my reaction to the environment that I grew up in….” What was the environment that you were reacting to? Also, how did your behavior differ from other kids up to the age of 9 or 10.
@Lula: In the gender studies that I have read, they have not shown 100% correlation. Doesn’t this serve to disprove the genetic factor of homosexuality? Or, if not, would it indicate that one of the twins is living a lie?
MT: I don’t read gender studies all that much – I work and study in sexual health promotion, which is a combination of medical, public health, and psychology fields. Since we work directly with GLBT people (as colleagues as well as clients and patients), and since Dr. Money’s research is now considered outdated (though important as far as ground-breaking in the field), I pay much more attention to people’s life experience today than I do to 20+yo studies. You can read whatever you want, but reading won’t substitute for life experience. 100% correlation isn’t realistic, and it isn’t what we’re after anyway.
Mawt al-soddomi: I have only one phrase for you – Universal Single-Payer Shamanistic Death Panels.
(And before Mawt al-soddomi and any other posters with an irrational fear of “sexual deviants” accuses me of making death threats in order to advance my Big Queer Agenda, I give you the phrase via video: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/11/jon-stewart-vs-town-hall_n_256272.html )
(And another terrifying Queer Agenda video, complete with children’s books: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC6x_SgSLJ8 Off to work now! Byyyyyyeee!)
I don’t like this at all. No one knows how sexuality is formed but its clear that it can be purely environmental in some instances. Surely, no one would claim that the later Roman emperors (and Roman elites in general) were born as gay pedophiles or that the parents of these young boys were born with the idea that it was ok (which they did think). That behavior was obviously environmentally generated. The environment signaled that it was ok and normal – draw your own conclusions.
@MT The environment I was reacting to was a pretty normal, upper middle class household. I lived in the mountains, but first started interacting with the town when I entered middle school. I played piano and violin. I remember watching a lot of kid’s movies during after-school daycare in elementary school. I remember having a best friend who was really into the idea of sex at an early age (he was straight), but I hung out with him because he liked to talk with me about trading cards. I played with action figures rather than Barbie dolls. These are all very regular things, and you’d never suspect that I might be gay someday. But you know in cartoons where the perfect guy got to be with the perfect girl? Well, I identified more with the girl’s happy ending. That’s really what I mean by being “romantically interested” in (older) boys. It didn’t mean that I wanted to be a girl, though. I identified with what the girls were told that they could get in life, but otherwise I was completely satisfied being a boy with other boys, being rowdy, playing dodgeball, pretending to be an X-Man, learning how to use the Internet to play 8-bit multiplayer tank games, etc..
BTW, please don’t mince my words. I don’t appreciate when people assume there must have been something wrong or unusual that happened in my childhood to cause me to now want to be who I always felt I was. Or that growing up Asian-American has somehow affected my sexuality being where it is today. The times in life where I have been most dishonest as a person have really stemmed from the fact that I didn’t want to be perceived badly in my community. I can think of so many other kids that I knew in my affluent suburb hometown who actively hid their personal and family problems at home just to keep up appearances, just like me about my sexuality (I can tell years later how much they’ve changed and have come to seek happiness in life). To me, it’s really inhumane to make teenagers go through an extra decade of feeling miserable about themselves (be it about what their real career dreams are, the political orientation of the majority of their community, the degree of racism or sexism that they experience on a daily basis, or how little their “deviant” mindset is tolerated in their society, etc.), only to escape it all during college (most people in my hometown went to college) and then finally come to terms with their identity as a human who is a little off center from the societal mean (and not everyone achieves this level of comfort). Ultimately, I think we should be making sure that all people have good self-esteems before they are even making choices after high school. My parents were great parents because they never forced me to make decisions about my career that I truly didn’t wish to make myself.
Really, in the U.S. we live by a very specific set of gender standards, which I think are too rigid for most human beings. Many forms of sexuality were prevalent worldwide before colonialism, and yet we in industrialized societies get taught really early on what we should be like in terms of gender (infant girls and boys often already wear different clothes and may be treated somewhat differently by their families). I’m not going to say who’s correct, but if you want to talk about “naturalness” among humans, I’d go looking at the pre-colonial history, which has given the opportunity for many human societies to develop around the world, and at not modern history, where a lot of that diversity has been shunted because of the proliferation of specific Judeo-Christian values worldwide. I am not a Christian, so why should those values have been taught to me through literature, history, and life skills class? The answer is: because it’s knowledge that people should know, just like knowing about diversity in your community and around the planet. We will always be teaching some form of morality in public school, because what we know about “good behavior” is based on what our societies have historically considered good behavior. I’m fine with it, but some more diversity in opinions would be nice.
Jonhondus: I love how objectors always come around to pedophilia when we start talking about the rights of GLBT people to live safely, not be harassed or beaten, discriminated against, encouraged to turn to Jesus for “healing”, etc. Pedophilia and sexual exploitation of adolescents is not exactly a “gay” problem – most child sexual abuse involves a heterosexual adult man and a girl, and a quick peek at online porn demonstrates how much $$ is made catering to hetero adult male fantasies involving sex with very young girls. I wonder what it is about heterosexuality that leads to this perverse desire to hyper-sexualize girls and young women?
Yes, some adult gay men and lesbians sexually exploit children and youth – but the vast majority do not. Heteros who want to paint gay and lesbian people with the broad Pedophile brush need to take a look at their own sexual orientation’s history of child & youth sexual exploitation, and then kindly shut up.
@jon: I asked about your environment because you mentioned it specifically WRT your sexuality (that you reacted to your environment). I thought maybe you had certain experiences that you could relate.
I think it is perfectly natural for you to feel that you have always been gay. I feel that I have always been straight. I don’t know how I became what I am today, but I’m sure it was some learned behavior that is reinforced in society and culture. Like you say, there were many different forms of sexuality that were prevalent in the pre colonized world. All of those forms of sexuality are learned behavior – not some genetic disposition (we’ve moved beyond racism).
Being right and wrong is subjective. It depends on the culture. Often what is right in one culture is wrong in another.
@Lula: I’ve read the abstracts of a few studies (I can’t tell you which ones). I mention the twin studies because I would think there would be 100% correlation because people are born with their gender identity as well as there sexual orientation. I was surprised to see that there was not 100% correlation.
Is that surprising to you? What are your thoughts on that?
The Joan Jett video did not seem androgynous to me. It looked like to rebellious kids. The girl obviously came from a bad home as indicated by the abusive father. In my opinion, parents, and the environment they create, are the biggest influence on a child’s life.
WRT Rome and Greece, from what I understand, these children were not exploited as we would understand it today. It was part of their culture for young boys to take up with older men as a sort of right of passage. There are other cultures that practice similar rituals and rights. The point, I believe, is that it was not consider “bad” at the time, but was an excepted and expected practice.
I agree that much of the online porn is geared toward men (showing off young girls). Do you think it is a heterosexual phenomenon or a male phenomenon?
Just a note:
Christian is not the opposite of gay. Gay is not the opposite of Christian. Christians who believe this are sorely misinformed about their own faith and its teachings. (Unfortunately, they are loud about it, though.)
One thing that hasn’t been mentioned in the comments: Kids are often bullied simply because other kids perceive them as being gay. This isn’t just a GBLT issue, it’s an issue that affects everyone.
We’re going to discuss this on Morning News Live this Wednesday 8/19.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/Brett-Singer/2009/08/19/Pro-Gay-Curriculum-in-California
i agree will lula and jona the most. and i to am gay and im still in highschool. i get made fun of alot and its been that way since middle school. nobody in my school really knows im gay. but they precive that i am. i have been made fun off for many other things as well. luckly i have never been beat up. but i have been threated to get beat up. my early childhood was hard at times. due to the fact that i had a older sister with anger issues and a mom who had to go to rehab and a dad that left when i was young. although my life has imporved much over the years with my mom better and my sister kinda better. i am aslo christain but i dont do orginized religon. as i feel people use it to often as a exuse to beat,kill, or bully other people. also about people saying that enviorment is a big factor in ur sexuality. i dont think it is as big a factor as u think. i grew up in a chrisatn non gay family. i was not told that gays were horrble or anything like that. i think some people are just born that way. and on the issue of this anti-bully class i think they should spend the time to get a genral anti bullying class that covers all types of bullying including hate agisnt GLBT. and make it mandtory.
[...] by the number of comments on Jeanne’s post about this — 60+ and counting — people have some strong feelings about this, whether they live in [...]
[...] reminder to listen to Morning News Live with Brett Singer (me) and Jeanne Sager, today, Wednesday, August 19 at [...]
I’m sorry, but the author of this blog is taking the lawsuit out of context. I would do the same thing if this were true of the district where my children went to school. And I’m not talking about religious freedom here either. This is not an issue of bullying. This is an attempt to teach children that being a homosexual is acceptable. That is completely insane! Unfortunately, the hormones, chemicals and whatever else we have been pumping into our kids through prenatal care, food and water have contributed to the abnormality of males having higher levels of estrogen and females having higher levels of testosterone. Which, combined with the gay loving media/hollywood have paved the way for the homosexual lifestyle. Anyone who dare to indoctrinate my children with the thought of being a homosexual as acceptable and sometimes preferred will always reap my heated disapproval.
A person’s rights stop when they interfear with another person’s rights. Religious freedom is a right, punching whoever doesn’t agree with you is not.
btw… Seth Williams, your kinda crazy…can you say “conspiricy theory”?
People who agree with the parents and think they should be allowed to treat gay people like crap because they dont agree with it should all die in brutal car accidents
Comment:One ofthe people commented that someone who disagreed with homosexuality and perverse sexual behavior is guilty of a “simple lack of empathy and understanding”? I wonder, would you have any “empathy and understanding” for a child sex offender? What about the NAMBLA, you know, those “adult” men who love little boys and will have any kind of “sex” with them if they are willing? OK, what about the older women who want to have any kind of sex with 13-year old boys? Would you have “empathy” with their particular behavior? And like many other people who responded, of course, no one should approve or condone of any tragic use of violence or language against anyone. Jesus asked His Father to forgive them, for they know not what they do. And no one would be willing to change their sinful behavior if you hurt them physically. And I really think that so many of these proponents of “forced indoctrination”,who use such rediculous claims as equating racial or ethnic hatred to support sexual preferences, as do so many other liberal people who have intellectually vacant arguments, because some of these same people advocate murder and violent deaths of Christians. What a great testimony they bring to the table of life! Even if they joke, who allows “joking” when it comes to religion or race, anywhere! Oh, except in many fundamentalist Islamic countries and circles. Are the Christian “gay’ bashers strapping bombs on their bodies or on their children and sending them into the schools? Are these so-called homosexual haters stinging the “what-do-you-all-call-them”, GBLTs up on the nearest trees?And when will the GBLT label be banned by these fascist liberals who want to rule the society without any taboos or standards; who will probably force-teach or abuse anyone who doesn’t line up with their belief. Sounds like a lot of them have already begun their mode of rule.
Take care, any of you who are falling into their horrific trap. They will bury you and swear they are doing their “god” of GBLT a big favor.
People keep saying “it’s not the schools job to teach children anti-bullying” or that “the children are being indoctrinated” etc.. Have none of you heard of the Hidden Agenda? Look it up, seriously. It’s a teachers job not only to teach academic facts, but also how to deal with emotions, social situations, etc..
Its better for Christan’s to they keep their kids at home where they’ll get a better education then in California Schools.
I don’t condone beating up Homosexuals & I will never call them “Gay” as they took a word that meant another meaning and corrupted it.
And YES Teachers ARE teaching our children in public schools what the STATE wants them to learn that to practice homosexuality is normal. Be good little robots and forget the teachings of ones parents & faith. Jonhondus you hit on something..The Romans weren’t born as Homosexuals,the society had no morals and most everyone practiced it. They even condoned the practice of child sex/rape. And the Christians at that time also spoke out against that practice even if it meant a death sentence in the coliseum. The ones who hold true to the Bible will NEVER accept that sin of ANY KIND From saying its OK to tell a lie, adultery, to Homosexuality is to be willing taught & practiced.
Parentsknow better than schools what their children are ready for, esp in the arena of human sexuality. The latency period should be respected in children – for many years before puberty, they are embarassed by nakedness, the idea of sex – they would rather not face that. It’s one reason why sexual abuse is so horrific – it forces a child to confront things they are not ready for.
– but we do make our expectations clear for our children, and classes like this stand in the way of that delicate balance…
I have seven children, and they are all different – but i think situations like this are just one more reason to be grateful that i can homeschool and talk to my children about these things as they come up, or as interest develops. It wouldn’t be fair to my children to be specific, but as long as parents are open, and there is a relationship there, children would much rather hear these things in their own house,from their own parents, and then be able to go off in privacy and think it through, rather than being indoctrinated in a classroom (and invariably asked for imput right there…).
We have friends and family who are gay, and we also have “gay marriage” in Canada – so these are issues that come up regularly – we are also Christian and believe that God calls all people who are not married to a person of the opposite sex to chastity. We don’t hate our gay friends, or our relatives who are living with someone without benefit of clergy
Wow…I cannot believe the ignorance in some of these comments. Sorry, your “Christian” kids can’t beat up gays and lesbians in public schools anymore. Deal with it. And if those were any of my kids, you would NOT want to deal with me as a parent. I’m an agnostic/spiritual panthiest who sometimes leans Deist, but I don’t “turn the other cheek” against hateful bullies, or their parents. You wouldn’t want to mess with me or my kids, fundies.
@mamzee you DO NOT have gay friends ~ U WISH Dom ass
I guess I’ll scrap the statement about Mama because I don’t want to go down to their level . Peace and goodwill to all
Ali, you said “They should protect kdis from bullying, not our kids. We leave our kids with them and expect them to be safe. It is up to the school to watch and listen. Everytime there is a case of severe bullying the schools say, “But we have a strong anti-bullying campaign here. Zero tolerance.” Then they are off the hook. Demand more oversight from the staff not brainwashing of kids.”
Do you have any idea how much time and energy is wasted in school because of kids who bully others? Sure it’s the school’s responsibility to make sure it doesn’t happen, but when your kid, who hasn’t been taught tolerance because you think it’s a waste of time, bullies mine, my kid’s academic time is wasted on being upset, being afraid, etc. And since it’s a public school, what, exactly do you think can be done about your kid? Can they have him arrested? Kicked out of school? No, they can’t and if they could, you’d be outraged.
The best antidote to bullying and harassment is to create a positive environment. Believe it or not, it benefits everyone, even your bully kid, and everyone learns better.
@ mt: You wrote “In the gender studies that I have read, they have not shown 100% correlation. Doesn’t this serve to disprove the genetic factor of homosexuality? Or, if not, would it indicate that one of the twins is living a lie?”
You need to go back to high school and study basic genetics. Twins, even identical twins, are not clones. They are not carbon copies of each other. Also, when a particular condition or trait is genetic, it does not guarantee that every child of a particular family will have that condition or trait.
Additionally, genetic does not always mean hereditary. There are also mutations, genes that get switched on in response to various biochemical processes, etc.
First of all, the writer of this article is deceiving you people. The parents who aren’t sueing to have their kids not be nice to gays. The parents don’t want their kids to be brainwashed into thinking that homosexuality is not a malfunction…They don’t want their kids to be brainwashed into thinking that everyone should try to be gay. They can still be nice to gays but just believe they are malfunctioned and twisted in the brain
There’s nothing wrong with schools teaching kids not to bully others. In my experience, though, that is not all that happens at this sort of thing. Students are taught that homosexuality is “normal and okay”, and that anyone who thinks it immoral is simply intolerant and discriminatory. These programs are not simply there to protect kids, but also to shape their opinions on political and moral matters.
We had some anti-bullying programs in my high school, and they often did cross the line. They had an opinion on the morality of homosexual acts (they told us they were fine, obviously) and they characterized people who thought differently as uncaring bullies. It was not appropriate. There would be an absolute uproar if the opposite opinions were being taught.
I’m Catholic and went to Catholic schools all my life, and also got bullied (by no specific group in particular), so I think anti-bullying sessions are good for everyone. I’m also a live-and-let-live kind of person because I believe, ultimately, it’s not up to us what is right or wrong. But that isn’t to say that people should give up on teaching their kids morals. We’re all human and deserve to be treated as such.