Packing Heat: Why we keep a gun in the house
Why we keep a gun in the house.
At a recent pediatrician’s visit, the nurse asked me – as part of a series of standard questions – if we had any guns in our house. Like I always do, I answered with a quick, emphatic “no.” I’m not sure why I lie, because we do, in fact, have a gun. My husband keeps one safely stored in a closet. It’s unloaded and completely inaccessible to our daughters. Yet even though we are responsible gun owners, I guess admitting the truth makes me feel like a bad mother.
I understand the implication behind the question: owning a gun may pose a danger to my child’s health and safety. The American Academy of Pediatrics concludes that although one may feel safer by owning a gun, it’s actually safer to maintain a gun-free home. In their official policy statement regarding firearms, the AAP points to some pretty compelling research against gun ownership. They state, “Guns kept in the home are forty-three times more likely to be used to kill someone known to the family than to be used to kill in self-defense.” I understand this, but nevertheless I’ll still keep a firearm.
I grew up in a house with guns. My father kept a small collection of hunting rifles and shotguns propped up against the wall in his bedroom closet. I could open that closet at anytime and look at those guns. Of course, I would never be as lackadaisical as my dad was back then, but by having them around, I did learn to respect firearms. It was very clear that I was to never touch those guns unattended. And I understood their power. Watching an animal fall to its death from a bullet wound teaches you the power a gun yields far better than any anecdotal lesson about gun safety ever will.
That being said, I’m not a hunter and neither is my husband. We keep a gun, one, because my husband is in the military, and two, for safety. I understand the statistics, and yet, they do not sway me. Instead I trust myself and my husband to determine how to protect our daughters. I trust our ability to safely store that firearm more than I trust the statistic that says there’s only a small chance someone will enter my home and try to harm my family.
In my own community I’ve never heard of any child being accidentally killed by a firearm, yet there have been home break-ins. Several years ago, our community faced a series of house invasions where the homeowners were bound at gunpoint and robbed. And last year near Knoxville, Tennessee, down where my grandmother used to live, a young mother did in fact defend herself against an intruder in her home. Suzanne Carson was alone in her home with her two young children when she heard a noise at her back door. When she went to investigate, she was confronted by a young man trying to break into her home. She retrieved her gun with just one thought: she had to protect her kids. She shot three times and scared off the intruder.
Regardless of all this, I realize my choice may hold some inherent contradictions. As a practicing Christian, my faith informs most of how I live my life and raise my family. I’m pretty sure that Jesus would be anti-gun. He would advocate peace. I get this, and I do struggle with my choice, otherwise I imagine I wouldn’t be lying to that nurse. But I will not love any enemy who forcibly enters my home. If threatened, I would aim that gun and shoot if it meant protecting my children. Under the Second Amendment that is my right, and I believe whole-heartedly in protecting that freedom.
Holding a gun hardly feels maternal. Yet it’s that very maternal instinct that moves me to protect my children at all costs. As a parent, I’ll always be a little ambivalent about my pro-gun choice. On a day-to-day basis I see myself as a nurturer. It’s my job to hug and kiss my girls – to make them feel loved and secure. Holding a gun hardly feels maternal. Yet it’s that very maternal instinct that moves me to protect my children at all costs. In a sense, I’m no different than a wild mother bear who will tear anyone or anything apart if she perceives a threat to her cubs. But being human, we are held to a different standard – a moral standard. But that’s the whole rub: if my children were threatened, all moral reasoning goes out the window.
Any kind of risk to my children’s life is scary to me. In the end, though, I realize the kind of risk gun-ownership poses is a risk I can confidently control and minimize. Crime is not. So next time, I’ll be answering that nurse with a “yes.” Owning a gun might be a difficult choice, but it’s nothing to feel guilty about.
I’m just wondering, if a firearm is properly locked up (which includes being unloaded?), how does one retrieve the gun from the safe and load the bullets before the intruder stops the person?
Before the economic meltdown I was 100 percent anti-gun and would have recoiled in horror at the idea of having one in my home, mainly because of the 43-times-more-likely statistic. That’s a stunning, horrifying statistic. Yet lately many of my friends have been talking about buying guns in case things get “really bad” and I find myself nodding in agreement. It isn’t logical — as K8m points out, any gun kept in a state where the kids can’t be harmed by it renders it useless. But I can understand why people feel safer with a gun in the house, logic and stats be damned.
I have the opposite experience of the author – nobody in my community has ever had a break-in while they were in the house, but I do know of a child who was accidently shot and killed by his friend while playing with his dad’s gun. So I can’t really judge, but I really believe in the 43 times more likely stat. Years ago, I lived in an area where a lot of people owned guns. There was also an extremely high murder rate there, so I know having guns at home does not deter crime. (Some people think that criminals will be less likely to commit crimes if they know people are likely to carry guns. That is totally unfounded.)I am also with k8m. Maybe if you live in a huge house you can hear someone break-in, get to the gun, load it, and then be able to use it before he gets upstairs to you. (Maybe in a rural area, where it is quite and you could hear someone easily?) We live in a very small house in a city. If anyone tried to break in, they’d be in our face before we could blink.
You need a gun safe – a real one, the kind that bolts to the floor and has a serious combination (not key) lock. You say your gun is inaccessible … now. It is unloaded … now. But that can all change in seconds when some visitor – a young relative, child of a friend, friend of your child, whatever – comes along and is capable, in one visit or two or twenty – of discovering it, figuring out how to put ammunition in it, and figuring out how to shoot it. For certain kids, guns are just magnets. Get a gun safe.
What I would like to know is, why is it OK for a nurse in your pediatrician’s office to ask you if you own a firearm? That is your own personal choice and has nothing to do with the purpose for the author’s visit to the doc-just guessing here-if I take my kid in to see the doc because she has an ear infection, how does whether or not I have a gun factor in??? I am sure some will say, oh they are checking for warning signs of danger/abuse, whatever, but I just think that that is crossing a line. I guess I find this whole thing a little absurd, as I live in very rural Michigan and you are the odd man out if you don’t have a firearm of some sort. Most everyone here hunts, including my (and my daughter’s) family doctor. If my doc’s nurse asked me if I owned a gun during the course of an office visit, I think I would be a little dumbstruck, then say, ummm are you serious? Because that is none of your business.
Merebears mom – peds ask if there are guns in the home at well child visits. They also may ask if there are smokers in the home, if medications are kept locked and out of reach, or if there is a swimming pool with a pool alarm/child-proof fence. It’s our job to help parents understand what risks there may be in the home. Heck, I remind parents that toddlers can grab hot tea off the table really quickly. Seems like a no brainer, but how many kids get burns this way? (Lots.) While you may think it’s none of your provider’s business, the health and safety of your child *is* their only business. It’s a little defensive to think they are asking in order to tell you not to keep a gun in the home. They are asking to help you ensure that you are taking precautions to keep your kids from accidentally shooting each other/ themselves/ their friends. Studies have shown that 5 and 6 year olds – even when they learn gun safety, even when they can recite things like “I should never touch my dad’s/ mom’s gun”, when left unattended – they go touch and pick up the gun. And as previous posters stated – if the gun is truly child safe, then you will never get it in time to “save” your family. We’re happy with our alarm system and good door and window locks, in our urban apartment – where a guy was killed by a gang down the street from us. Parents who keep dangerous things in their houses should know they are making risky decisions about their childrens’ lives. If you’re ok with that, cool.
I’ve never understood the need to own a gun. Maybe it’s because I’m in Canada, where the gun culture is somewhat different, but nobody I know owns one. When my house was broken into last year while I was home, we accidentally walked in on them. I left the house before they even knew I was there and ran to a neighbour’s house to call 911. My partner stayed calm and talked to the burglar and they left the house together. Nobody was hurt, and it turned out later that my partner was outnumbered – there was at least one accomplice outside who could have burst in and overpowered my partner if he had tried to fight.Whether or not we had a gun in the house, we would have walked in on them unarmed (they were very quiet,) but I prefer my way – it’s just stuff, it’s not worth getting hurt to protect it. If I had grabbed the hypothetical gun, maybe one of the burglars would have been hurt, maybe my partner or I would have been hurt, and likely the same stuff would have been stolen.In the end, nobody was hurt and insurance covered my losses and that’s the way I’m happiest.
I don’t understand the gun thing either. The great majority of burglars don’t want to deal with someone at home. I once saw someone trying to break into my neighbor’s house. While calling 911, the neighbor (who was at home) yelled something, and the would-be burglar ran faster than anyone I have ever seen.The author seems to have some very unusual stories happen in her community. (Someone actually used their gun to deter a burglar and people were tied up in their homes at gunpoint, but she never heard of a child being accidentally killed.) These things are all possible, but in the past when I have met people who have told such stories it is usually the case that a) they are already pro-gun, so they only pay attention to the stories that suit them or b) the local press are pro-gun, so they push these types of stories. The author also talks about wanting to protect her children, and how this is a natural instinct. The problem is, it is so unlikely she will ever need a gun to do this. At that point, you should say you will never, ever leave the house because your kids might get hit by a car. (Which is much more likely than ever needing a gun to protect them.)
I agree, anon, but that brings us back full-circle. If a gun is in a state where it can’t harm our children (dismantled, unloaded, in a safe, buried in the backyard, etc.) then what good is it against an intruder? He certainly isn’t going to stand around and wait while we unlock the safe, reassemble the weapon, load it, etc. I’m not being snarky here… I’d really like to know if there’s a way to both keep the children safe and have a gun for protection in case the worst happens. I really can’t see a way. Kids are attracted to guns, and telling them not to touch it only increases the fascination. And then the danger only grows once kids reach their teens. How many suicides are committed using the parents’ gun? There was one in my high school class.lkm1, I thought that Canadians owned guns in about the same proportion as in the States? Was Michael Moore wrong about that?
Also, about the young mother who protected her kids by shooting a gun in the air. Assuming the gun was safely stored and not loaded, in the time she got the gun and loaded it, why didn’t she just get her kids and run out the front door to look for help? Either she did not have the gun safely stored or it was more important for her to use her gun than to get her kids safely out of the house. I know I am being very judgmental, but in this case I really can’t see how the mother was being responsible.
I’m suspicious of the story about the woman who used a gun to defend her children. I suppose it’s possible, but it sounds fishy to me, more like a gun-owner’s fantasy of home protection. And like Lisa points out, if it was all set and ready to be whipped out when the crook showed up, then it must have been in reach and loaded — and therefore available for her children to reach. Even if it’s true, it’s the most unlikely of all scenarios. If the bad guys show up at your door with weapons (which they probably won’t, they’d rather break in when you aren’t home), they have EVERY advantage: the gun in hand, the element of surprise, the willingness to shoot you, numbers, etc. The odds that you’re going to be able to locate, load, and fire your gun in time to make any difference are pretty damn slim, especially compared to the odds that that same gun will be used against a member of your household.Seriously, you live in an area where no children have been accidentally harmed by guns? And women use guns to chase off intruders? An unusual community indeed.
When I was small, one of my dad’s patients (he worked in drug treatment) somehow found our house and made a ruckus and some threats, so my dad started buying guns. One day, he was showing my mom how to load one and she fired it right through a wall and out a window. We are very, very lucky that no one was hurt. Worse: our downstairs neighbor was a security guard, and one day, his young daughter decided to show off his unsecured gun to her friends at a birthday party. She dropped it and fired a bullet that ricocheted off the sidewalk. It’s a miracle that no one was hurt.By the time my dad died, he had six guns and we never had a single opportunity to use them to defend our family. All of the above is anecdotal evidence, sure, but it’s enough to convince me to never purchase a gun.
It’s the same with cigarettes.I know that smoking causes cancer and lung disease and birth defects and so on, but nobody in my neighborhood has ever gotten sick from cigarettes. Plus, I grew up around them. Dad had cigarettes in the house all the time, and I turned out OK, didn’t I?It’s not that I’m saying all these cigarette statistics are wrong. It’s just that I’m different than everybody else. Those statistics apply to other people, not me. I’m quite clever and I’ll think of a way to control the risk.
I have a BIG problem with this article and it is this: Does the author lie to her friends, too, or to the parents of her kids’ friends, who may not want their children playing in a house where there is a gun? Absurd to write about this and not at least address the question of responsibility to people and children who may visit. Did this not occur to the Babble editors? Ridiculous!
Those who are horrified should consult the book Freakonomics in which Steven Levitt, in one chapter, makes the case that a swimming pool in your backyard is something like 200x more likely to kill your child than a handgun in the house.Would you be more scare to let you kid play at the house with the swimming pool, or the house with the handgun? If you understand the statistics, and are acting rationally, the answer should be the house with the swimming pool.Mind you I would never have a gun in my home, but let’s talk about this rationally.
I don’t know any way to keep a gun ready for instant use, but still stored in a way kids cant’ get to it, other than carrying holstered on your person. I keep a digital combination lockbox in the bedroom–I can open it in a few seconds. If a gun is meant for defense, and is locked away there really isn’t a reason to unload it, they don’t go off without being handled. There are also risks to loading and unloading. If the first I know of a home invader is when he bursts into my bedroom, I’m out of luck. I think it more likely that I’ll hear him break in, and have the few seconds I need. The 43 times more likely statistic is very, very biased. In around 95% of the cases when a gun is used for defense, no shots are necessary. The 43 times study doesn’t count those as a positive outcome. It also includes suicide and defense against an abuser known to the family as negatives. A few months ago I did a web search for something like “child gun death”, and then used names from the stories to do followup searches. In 9 out of 10 cases, I was able to fairly easily find that there were obvious contributing factors–A felon living in the house, unemployed boyfriend with a history of domestic violence babysitting another man’s offspring, numerous prior police visits to the home, illegal drug use. None of the stories were of normal, stable middle class families.
chattydaddy, I see your point. Still, that doesn’t make a handgun safe. The article was about owning handguns, and whether it was safer to have one or to not have one. I could say that driving your kids around in a car is the most dangerous thing you could do, but that wouldn’t make having a swimming pool or a handgun any safer.The fact is, I would know if my kid went to a house with a swimming pool. However, as the author shows, people who have guns are not necessarily honest about it. And if my son was invited to someone’s house with a pool, I would make sure to be there with him at all times. Call me paranoid, but that’s how I feel. I also questioned the story about the woman who saved her kids with a handgun. I know a lot of you will think I am very cruel for saying this, but when I read the story (I looked it up online), I thought of 3 possible scenarios;- There was never an intruder, but she wanted some attention, so she shot the gun at the wall to create a story. (As far as I read, the intruder was never found.)- She accidently shot a hole in the wall, and had to explain it.- Someone in the family was involved in some shady business, and they were expecting someone to come into their home. The story explained that her husband taught her how to use a gun just a month before, and I thought the timing was too weird. Of course, I admit that I could be wrong and this story could be on the up-and-up. But we have had a few stories like this in our city, and most of the time the person breaks down and admits they made it all up or the victim was connected to the criminal in some way.Also, about the author never hearing of a child being accidentally shot. When I was in junior high, a classmate was fatally shot when he was playing with a gun at his friend’s house. I remember there was no news of it in the newspaper. I asked a teacher, and they told me this is because it was not newsworthy, as things like this happen fairly frequently. That is the problem with the news. They tend to report on things that are very unusual, or else it wouldn’t be considered interesting. The big downside is that people start believing these things are the norm, and stop worrying about things that can actually harm them. (If you have ever read Barry Glassner’s “The Culture of Fear”, you will know what I am talking about.)
@sevesteen, I don’t agree that the statistic is very biased. You talk about all the times a gun was used but not discharged. How about all the times the intruder would have left anyway when they realized someone was home? (As I stated previously, someone tried to break into our neighbor’s house, and once our neighbor yelled out that he was there, the burglar ran like crazy. You have to wonder how many times people say a gun saved them, when just making some noise would have done the job just as well. Or just running out of the house.)Also, you talk about how 90% of accidental child killings happen in houses where there is some criminal element. Now I know I am going to get a lot of argument about this, but I would have to say that most people that have guns in their homes probably fit this description. I am not saying that there are no honest citizens who have guns, but I would think that most criminals have guns in their homes, while most honest people do not. (I’m talking handguns, not hunting rifles.) I would also guess that the criminals are not locking their guns in a safe. I do think that people who truly lock their guns away every time are lower their chances greatly of an accident. It is just when someone forgets or does not make it an absolute habit to do it every time. Also, you say you have the safe in your bedroom. From what the police told me, almost all home invasions happen during the day. (The burglars think you are not home.) What is the likelihood that you are in the bedroom when someone tries to break in?
k8m said what I was going to say: if you have a gun that’s properly stored, without its ammunition, then how are you going to get it together fast enough to face down an intruder? I just don’t see the point. I really don’t. If you keep it loaded and have children in your home, that’s both irresponsible and extremely dangerous. Even if your kids KNOW, like you did as a child, that the guns are not to be touched, who’s to say their friends will feel the same way, when they get to a certain age? It’s like having a little pile of dynamite in your front hall, just waiting for someone to strike a match.
Elenchos, that’s called “luck”.I could throw my kids in the car without seatbelts or car seats and drive 90 miles an hour from NY to California … not get in an accident and not kill my children. That would be luck, and frankly I’m not willing to gamble with the safety of my children.I would never keep a gun in the house, period. My children have never been allowed to play at the home of anyone who owns a gun (of course, if like the writer of this article, parents lie …hmm). There are so many things that can happen to a child that truly could not have been avoided (real “accidents”). I could not live with myself if my child were harmed or killed because of something I did or did not do.You can rely on luck… I’ll stick to cold, hard facts.
I think elenchos was being sarcastic. (Or else I really read that wrong.)
I grew up with guns in the house. I took target practice in my grama’s yard with a 22 and beer cans when I was 11 or 12 or something. My uncle accidentally grazed my grama’s dog. The dog was OK. I never knew where my dad kept the guns. I knew better than to go snooping through his stuff. It was not an issue. Still, I would NEVER have a gun in my house now. I have too hot of a temper.
Gpgirl, I totally agree with you about that woman’s unlikely story. My sister and I were just talking about it over lunch and we had the same theories that you did. Her story, as told, makes no sense at all unless she regularly walks around her house carrying a loaded gun.(Barry Glassner’s “The Culture of Fear” should be required reading these days.)
The opinions expressed above are pretty standard for those addressing the issue of gun control. First, there are many errors of fact in the opinions of those expressing disdain for gun ownership, which have been rebutted extensively by academicians, statisticians, and other objective and qualified reviewers. For example, the “43 times more likely” number comes from a study by Kellerman, et al., which has been completely rebutted. As an example from the Kellerman study, renting your place to live (and five or six other details of lifestyle) ranked above gun ownership in correlation to becoming a gunshot victim. Further, situations such as engaging in an abusive or drug addicted relationship, or criminal activity by one of the two partners, were extremely highly correlated with shootings. In other words, lifestyle is much, much more important than gun ownership in determining your chances of getting shot.I find that rather than talking about gun ownership, a more interesting question is whether one believes in and supports an individual right to self defense. I consider that one of, if not the most important, human rights.
I grew up in Texas. Most of the men in our family hunted. My brother and I got bb guns for christmas when I was 10 and he was 11. Even growing up in that gun culture, I don;t think I could ever have a gun in our home and I would not knowingly allow my child in a home with guns. I knew people in my community growing up who used family guns to kill themselves on purpose and or shot friends or family members accidentally. We lived in a nice area. This was not some criminal element leaving guns lying around. No matter what your background, studies show a gun in your home is more likely to kill a family member than to protect you from some stanger breaking into your home. And I am sure the vast majority of people who have lived through that sort of tragedy also thought their families were different, more responsible, etc. I’ll never forget the 20/20 piece that ran a few years ago. They interviewed parents in several gun-owning families who swore that they had instilled in their kids a respect for guns and that their kids would never touch the guns in their homes and that, anyway, they hid their guns so well that their kids would never find them. Then the show interviewed the kids and they all at first pretended not to know where their parents hid the guns. Then they all ended up showing the interviewers where the guns were and were able to access them.The parents were all shocked and freaked. They couldn’t believe their kids knew where the guns were.Disasters waiting to happen.
My husband and I have had this discussion; both of us grew up in a house with guns, and I REFUSE to have one in my house. My mom kept my uncle’s old .38 service revolver (he was a cop in Cleveland) in her dresser drawer (this was the 70′s), under some nighties–and right next to it was the yellow plastic box of bullets. I found the gun while doing what all little kids do–snooping in my parents’ stuff. I could quite easily have loaded it and accidentally shot myself or my sister or a friend–when I look back on it, I shudder to think how easy it would have been.Unless your gun is locked in a gun safe that only you and your spouse know the combination to (in which case it’s basically useless if your home is invaded in the middle of the night when you’re all asleep), the guns are a risk to your children. Children are smart, and they will keep trying to get at something dangerous that they’re curious about until they succeed, at which point only the gods know whether or not they’ll kill themselves or someone else.My husband wants to have a gun, for some of the same reasons as the author (add in a survival scenario too). I say no way. So far, we don’t have one. We have bear mace–good enough for me, and although painful if one of the kids gets a hold of it, not fatal.
RE: sevesteenIsn’t death by suicide a negative outcome? Yes, suicide by gun is something a person does to himself, but most often the person is not making a rational choice. He or she is making a choice based on EMOTION and the despair they feel at that moment. Not everyone who is suicidal will try again or even feel that way later on. Without access to guns, you significantly reduce the likelihood an attempt will succeed, so NO – suicide with a gun is NOT a good outcome. Think of the parent whose child kills himself with the family gun. Ill bet they feel as though they pulled the trigger themselves. In many cases, people who attempt suicide go on to lead normal and happy lives. But if you kill yourself, theres nothing anyone can do to help you. So yah, Id say that is a negative outcome. Implying that suicides don’t need to be addressed is sick. I also love the implication that there is no drug use or domestic violence amongst in normal, middle class families. How evolved!
Mikee, can you cite these academic studies that dispute the statistics that handguns are unsafe? (I’m not being snarky, I would actually be interested in seeing them.)Like I said to chattydaddy, we are talking about guns, and whether it is safer to have one for self-defense or safer to not have one and reduce the risk of family members getting shot. Self-defense and the right to it is one thing. The question is whether you need a gun for this. I took a few self-defense classes, and the first rule was to get out of the situation as quickly as possible. Most criminals are either just trying to get money without being seen/caught. If they are out to do bodily harm to you, they are most likely someone you know. Knitty, thanks. I do agree everyone should read The Culture of Fear. It really is this irrational fear of the stranger lurking around the corner that drives people to want to own guns.
The “compelling research” mentioned in the article has actually been proven invalid. It counted gang members killing rival gang members who happens to be known to the killer as “known by family members” – it also counts suicides that happen to use handguns instead of a noose, exhaust fumes from a car in a garage, jumping off a tall building or bridge, or an overdose of medications. Regardless of method chosen the suicide person is just as dead, having a handgun makes a person no more likely to try to kill themselves.Additionally the study excluded the 2.5 million self defense uses of handguns every year in the US, 98% of the time in which not a single shot was fired. Even in the 2% of cases that a shot was fired, over 80% of gunshot victims survive so they don’t make it into the “killed” in self defense category. So let us compare, 2.5 Million self defense uses of guns per year compared to approximately 30 Thousand gun deaths by murder & suicide. No comparison, having a gun stored safely in the home is much safer than depending on 911 in an emergency. When seconds count, the Police are minutes away . . .
I’m happy to see that the comments are not overly pissy in either direction, but are generally rather level-headed.I guess nobody wants to argue with a gun-owner. Ha ha.Aaaanyway…Just to weigh in. I wouldn’t have a gun in the house unless things got really bad and society completely broke down, OR in one other exception.If somebody was stalking me or my wife, I would actually be OK with my or my wife actually carrying a concealed weapon.I have seen too many cases of the law not being able to do anything until a stalker kills his victim.Other than in very special conditions, i don’t really see how a gun can help. I’m with the other folks who wonder what use a gun is in a home intrusion if it takes 5 minutes to get it out and loaded?
I think it’s a personal choice.If you own one, then that is your business.If you don’t, for whatever reason, then that’s fine too.No one should give the other grief about how they handle their household.Personally, we don’t have a firearm in our home.I’m not against them, I just never got one…kinda the same reason I never got a tattoo.I’m more concerned with my husband possibly wanting to off me and using the firearm to do it than with the idea my kids will get a hold of it.As far as having time to actually load the gun. We have a fairly large home, so if someone broke in, more than likely I would have time to close myself off in the master closet and load the gun, and go cap someone off.or at least that’s how I play the scenario in my head.Who knows.If they (the guns) make you nervous, you probably shouldn’t handle one anyways. I feel the same with kids. If they make you nervous, don’t get knocked up.
No matter what your background, studies show a gun in your home is more likely to kill a family member than to protect you from some stanger breaking into your home. And I am sure the vast majority of people who have lived through that sort of tragedy also thought their families were different, more responsible, etc.Most of these studies are bogus. The “researchers” have anti-gun connections, start with the assumption that guns are bad, and voila’! – prove that guns are bad.GUNS AND PUBLIC HEALTH: EPIDEMIC OF VIOLENCE OR PANDEMIC OF PROPAGANDA?The above link is an exhaustive discussion of how biased and one-sided the public health “research” on guns can be.
Or, gpgirl, it could be the same permeating fear – of the unknown, of people going rogue who may also be armed – that cause most of these responders to be so against gun ownership. If you aren’t afraid, why insist people not own guns, and why insist that the homes your children play in not also house guns? Sounds like some pretty strong fear to me.
WSP, actually, I am not insisting that people not own guns. As of today, it is their legal right. I am just discussing that people are fooling themselves if they think they can safely lock away a firearm and still have time to get it when they need it. Honestly, I never even thought of people going rouge with guns. I don’t think most people we are talking to here are out for violence. The reason I don’t want my child to play in home that has a gun is the fear that the kids will find it and play with it. It is not because I think one of the adults will go crazy and shoot them. Just like people have the right to own guns, I have the right to keep my child out of their house.
I’m willing to admit I’m afraid of guns. Their sole purpose is to kill things. What’s irrational about being scared of that? I mean, seriously, that’s all guns do. They kill things. I would also not want to be in a house with anthrax, is that silly? We would not want our child playing in a house with guns or in a house with a swimming pool, unless we ourselves are there to supervise. I’ve read the statistics on both.I’ve had a shotgun pulled out and pointed at me by a drunk gun owner who was telling a story about it. Yeah, that’s some responsible gun ownership. Needless to say we got our asses out of that party as fast as we could and would never return to that house. He apologized later, but I could give a crap. Sorry never makes up for someone potentially accidentally dying because of you.
I don’t own a gun. My kids don’t own toy guns. I don’t particularly support gun-ownership. But I wonder whether raising my kids in a totally gun-free environment is the best idea. I grew up in a house full of guns and learned safety above all else. My sibling and I did not have access to the guns and knew never to handle them without the supervision of an adult who had experience handling guns. My dad taught us how to load, shoot, and clean guns, the whole nine yards. My dad helped my brother make a gun and restore antique guns. We spent occasional Saturdays at the shooting range or gun shows. I won first prize at a turkey shoot when I was in fifth grade. But always, always, always, there was a heavy emphasis on safety. My dad stressed safety so much that to this day I can’t imagine handling a gun in a casual manner. Seeing children point toy guns at each other or play sharpshooting-style video games makes me intensely uncomfortable, just like I feel when I see people step into the street without looking both ways. I would never point a gun at myself or another person. With no exposure to guns, my kids don’t have this response ingrained in them. When confronted with a real gun one day, will a safe response be routinized?
me, I see what you are saying, but I don’t think all gun owners are as safety-aware as your father. Although I would never own a gun, years ago I took a shooting class just to understand guns. Most of the class focused on safety. Then, I lived in Florida for a couple of years, where it is very easy to buy a gun. I was amazed at how clueless a lot of these people were. We’d be at someone’s house, and they would bring out their new gun to show it off, and it was always loaded! I was taught that, when walking with a gun, always have it pointed down. However, these people in Florida would be waving it around like it was a toy. They were educated, middle-class people too. I was so glad to get out of there. I really wish that people would be required to take a gun safety class before being able to purchase a gun. I know this is the case in some states, but not every one.
Wow. I can’t believe someone actually stated that MOST people who own handguns are criminals. I guess my husband, my father in law, my step-father, my neighbor, and I are all criminals. Of those I just named, 4 (insert gasp here!) have carry and conceal permits. NONE of us have a criminal record. Because, here in the state of Alabama, you cannot have a carry and conceal permit if you have so much as a DUI. Here’s a link if you’re interested. http://www.shelbyso.com/page.php?p=permitsWe are a law enforcement family. My father-in-law has been in the field for 25 years. He has seen more violent break ins on unsuspecting unarmed families than people should ever see. My husband has slept in a closet as a kid many times,because someone found their phone number and told him they were going to kill him because his Dad locked up their girlfriend (or brother, or whoever. We will always have guns, and most likely always have one on us or near us. The anti-gun statistics are put out there by anti-gun groups. I would rather have a chance against an intruder, who would have a gun, legal or not, than be a sitting duck.
Americans drive me nuts. I really need to stop reading this drivel and go out and enjoy the great Canadian fresh air and bullet-free environment… oh, wait, it is duck hunting season and my community allows shooting 500 metres from the nearest residence and I live at the seaside… I guess we are all a little crazy in our own unique way.
You’re either for guns or against. Like politics, religion, abortion, etc. people are set in their opinions and will not be swayed, as evidenced by these comments. I own guns for personal reasons that I will not try to justify here, but I resent the implication from some of the comments that because I have a family AND firearms that I’m somehow irresponsible or putting my children at risk. You put your child in the car everyday, no? If we’re arguing statistics here, look those particular ones up. You will see you are putting your child in much more danger than I am by owning a gun, but I’m sure someone will argue that it’s not the same because, hey, everyone drives and , hey, I DO put my child in a car seat (most likely incorrectly, again if we’re arguing statistics.) Life is full of risks beyond gun ownership and we all juggle daily with minimizing them as much as possible. Some choose to own a gun to minimize the risk of being the victim of a crime. Some abstain to minimize the risk of a family member accidentally getting shot. Neither position is right or wrong. It just boils down to what helps you sleep at night. There are always going to be anecdotes to either side. I have several anecdotes of people that would not be alive if it were not for their gun, but I also know of all the accidental deaths. Just because you feel strongly about something doesn’t make you right nor does it mean your position is any more rational than someone else’s. This issue has so many gray areas that I think a reasonably intelligent person could understand there is no right answer, save for the one that works for him/her on an individual basis.
Wow, you Americans blow my mind. This kind of debate would not even be taking place where I live…gun-free, thank god.
My best friend’s cousin accidentally shot and killed his best friend when we were kids. With his father’s gun. Which was hidden away, where the kids couldn’t get it, or so they thought, in their house. Look around the world–Americans are frightening when it comes to our sense of entitlement with guns. Give me a break on the intruder argument. It’s ridiculous. Shameful.
It isn’t that difficult to figure out….during the day, caught upright and conscious differs greatly than being caught and cornered sleeping in your room in the middle of the night, which is when some gun owners do take out their firearms keeping them within reach to put them away the following morning. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people, and irresponsible gun owners are responsible for terrible accidents, just as irresponsible drivers are responsible for terrible accidents, as well as killing people and children. During extended trips where I am required to sleep alone for a week, I have a gun strategically placed nearby, a large knife, my car alarm button so I can trigger the alarm to make outside noise if possible, and the telephone. It really isn’t anyone’s business why I need these things nearby to feel secure enough to fall asleep either. We are a law enforcement family as well. During the day, and most other days, our guns are locked into a combination safe with bullets still separate. Our children are talked to early on how dangerous they are and we make sure to instill a great fear into them regarding them as well. We also teach our children that they may sit and use a pair of child-safe scissors and that they cannot use the adult scissors. We teach them that it is just fine to play with their toy kitchenette but not our regular stove. We teach them to never touch the sharp knives and only their children-designed butterknives. All can be used as weapons to kill. And all are things that a child may choose to STILL try out to satisfy their own innocent curiosity. I’ve heard it said, and I completely agree, you outlaw guns and the criminals will be the only ones with guns. A pediatrician isn’t invading your privacy by asking, but just as there are idiots out there who don’t realize that a child can fall down the stairs in a baby walker, let alone when not in one, and they were therefore “outlawed” for a time, it stands to reason there are idiots out there who don’t know how to safely keep a gun in their home because they just don’t have it in them to realize just how quick, curious, or willful a child can be – ANY child – regardless of what you’ve taught them. Sadly, they DO need to make sure to at least mention it. I’ve lied to my pediatrician about a few things, simply because I was trying to save time and didn’t require any sort of education on the topic they were bound to venture into a lecture on. I learned early on how quick kids can be, how they have minds and reasoning methods of their own, and it didn’t involve guns to figure it out either.
My husband and I have debated this a lot. His family is from Wyoming, mine from California. I see his point now that I’ve been somewhere where the nearest police were not minutes away but an hour away. However, that’s not where we live. We live in a place where, if an accident occurred while cleaning the gun, the bullet could pass through the wall into the apartment next door and hurt someone. And yes, some of the walls are that thin and yes, that’s why they call it an accident. So beyond the question of how quickly one could load the gun or how easily a child could get ahold of it regardless of training, I believe it also one of community density. It makes more sense in a rural environment where you are only protecting/gambling with your own family’s lives, not the 10 families living within 100 feet of you.I don’t believe there is *no* room for debate and compromise between folks who are for and against. Also, statistics can be manipulated by anyone to support their own point — ask any statistician.
I love how the author ties to dodge the hypocrisy of being a gun owner paired with being a “practicing Christian”. There wasn’t any explanation at all. There never will be an explanation for that.
Lets see..to the women who has an alarm company..not everyone can afford one. AAP? Same class as FDA and CDC..hip deep in conflict of interest, the new ‘director’ of the AAP holds patents on vaccines and makes billions of dollars off of them…conflict anyone? As far as children never being in a home with a gun? Not possible in some areas of the country..states like Idaho have a 90 percent gun ownership rate, with a 70 percent kept load rate..so really you never know for sure. Gun safety classes are a must for children in a gun ownership society. A taboo object is a tempting object to a child or teen. My husband’s family hunts, putting clean hormone free, chemical free food in our freezer every year. Grandma and Grandpa have guns, in a safe, but have guns. Our son will have gun safety classes. We keep guns because we can…because we are ultimatly responsible for our own safety. Because people breaking in to cause bodily harm (rape anyone?) won’t ‘run when they see someone home’not all crime is about property. I am not a ‘gun nut’ I am a realist. Our society is not a fun place right now..desperate people do desperate things. It is the reason we a very large protective dog. If you don’t own guns, don’t want too…that is fine..if you own them..that is fine too. It is the foundation of this dream we call America, choosing how we live and not getting slammed for our choices. Everyone does something that someone else doesn’t agree with..as long as you pay your taxes, carry your fair share, and don’t hurt anyone, I don’t care what you do with your life.Do we own a gun? None of your damn business
Lisa0668:The lowest estimates I’ve seen of households with guns are 1/4, and I’m pretty sure it is well over half. You don’t hear about the responsible ones–It takes almost no effort to reduce the risk below the risk of “having stairs”. If you were to state that criminals are more likely to have guns, I wouldn’t argue, and they are much more likely to have problems–That may be the biggest weakness of the “43 times” study. Half of murder victims are felons. Being a felon is much more dangerous than having a gun, but the study blames the guns. As for being in the bedroom during a break-in–I’ve got a license to carry, so when I’m dressed, I’ve probably got a gun on me. This isn’t out of fear of a break-in, but out of a combination of laziness and responsibility–Guns should not be left unattended unless they are locked up, and it is easier to just leave it in the holster than to lock and unlock it every time I go out. Karmamama:Keeping a gun unloaded but unlocked isn’t good enough. If a gun is properly locked, the risk of leaving it loaded is minimal, and lower than the risk in loading and unloading it often. Beeker:The method of suicide is correlated with gun availability, but the rate is not. Removing the gun won’t stop someone who is serious, and someone seeking attention is more likely to pick a less reliable method. I said “normal” middle class homes–I don’t consider a history of police involvement due to drugs or abuse as normal.
I always think that gun owners who claim to have more peace of mind about safety are actually more paranoid. I’m no idiot – I know crime can happen. But I believe if I take basic precautions, those chances are so slim that owning a gun is really creating more danger than crime ever would.
Like jrb, we’re a law enforcement family, too. My husband is a state trooper who’s put a lot of “bad guys” (as my son calls them) away. He’s one of the best at what he does and has received tons of accolades for keeping some truly bad seeds off the streets. So we don’t have a choice about keeping a gun in the house — he’s required to have it here (and it’s locked up in a combination safe and out of our two preschoolers’ reach). Still, I am, personally, terrified about having a gun in the house. But my husband’s life has been threatened so many times that I’m *more* terrified that one day one of these lunatics will actually do what he says he’s going to do — follow my husband home from work and kill him and his family…or lie in wait for my husband to leave and try to hurt me and the kids (especially since we’re home alone at night when my husband works the midnight shift). Not exactly something most people making the anti-gun argument have to think about.
We have several guns in the house which are all locked up in a large gun safe bolted to the basement floor. These are my husbands guns and used exclusively for hunting (deer, turkey, etc) and keeping fresh meat in the freezer. While I have no problem with the guns being there, and consider myself in favor of owning firearms that serve a specific purpose, I still can’t fathom ever using one to defend my family. I don’t think that’s a practical purpose in this day and in this country (at least for now). So while I’m not against families like mine owning guns, I say that the 3 modern practical reasons are military, law enforcement and hunting.This being said, my husband does have an air rifle for the kids and takes them out on target practice, stressing proper handling of the weapon and it’s use in wildlife hunting. Not sure if my daughters will ever become hunters themselves, but I feel that the extreme power of a firearm is a worthwhile lesson to learn.
Nice article, and I’m glad to see you’ll start saying “yes” to Ms Nosy Nurse (yes, I realize she’s just reading off a form.) I’m surprised to hear of a nurse ask because frankly, it’s none of their business. Even the question itself brings a bad connotation, like you described. I can just imagine certain people asking “do you own a gun?” in the same tone they’d ask “do you beat your child every day, or just once a week?”I firmly believe that the best protection for kids is full awareness, which automatically brings a healthy respect. What’s funny to me is that many anti-gun liberals are all proactive about making sure every child knows about sex but is hush-hush about guns and the real world. What they see on TV/movies about guns is about the worst thing for a myopic view.
When I was in the 8th grade, I was standing 3 feet away from a classmate who went and got his father’s handgun (that was stowed away, unloaded, with a child lock, in their very upper class Houston home), loaded it, and accidentally shot himself in the head. The boy died immediately, right in front of me. His father had taught the child “gun safety”.Needless to say, we have huge issue with the “culture of guns” created by my NRA loving in-laws. They do not use guns to hunt. They collect guns for protection and because they think they’re awesome. On Thanksgiving they had been shooting out on their land and came inside, laid the guns down (unloaded) on a table in the back bedroom. After having a panic attack, my husband told his parents to lock the guns in the closet or we would be leaving.My issue is not so much with guns (even though I don’t think they are a necessity unless you are a hunter), but with the culture guns create. Your family IS more likely to be injured or killed in a home where a gun is present than a home where no guns are present. That is the truth. If you keep a gun to “protect” yourself, but you keep it locked up and unloaded how are you really going to protect yourself quickly if an intruder comes calling? There are other options for home protection. The first big one is to have a home security system. Have a keypad in two rooms in the home so you can hit a silent panic button in case an intruder strikes. Have sufficient outside lighting–this in itself keeps the bad guys away. Keep a baseball bat by the bed. If by having a gun I am increasing my child’s chances of encountering a gun accident by .00000001% I will NOT keep a gun. It is a chance I am not willing to take.
kevinp, you state that “Most of these studies are bogus. The “researchers” have anti-gun connections, start with the assumption that guns are bad, and voila’! – prove that guns are bad.”, yet the discussion you link is from a pro-gun site. how is that not “bogus” when it is from a pro-gun background?
A very dear friend of mine lost her teenage brother when he was shot by his friend in his friend’s home. I was opposed to guns in my home before I knew her, and seeing and hearing how that “accident” tore her life and her family apart, I would never now consider having a gun in my house. Ever. And frankly, although I do believe it’s your right to have a gun in a closet with your kids down the hall if you so choose, I think your argument that you’re protecting your family is silly. If an intruder breaks in to my house, I know I’ll find a way to protect my child and my loved ones. I’d rather take my chances swinging a baseball bat at a robber’s knees any day.
First, My husband deployed to Iraq last october and lost his left leg due to an IED. We just don’t feel safe not having a gun in the house knowing that the unthinkable could happen. It takes him almost a minute to put a prosthetic on, and I doubt an intruder would be threaten by a man hoping on one leg struggling to even to stand. I think however he would run away if the one legged man had a gun pointing at him!I think guns are like most things and potentially dangerous when handled improperly and mis-used. But I would like to ask the people strongly against arms how they plan to eat day-to-day if faced with having to survive without guns in the wilderness or on a farm, most people eat meat right? Guns are a part of life, though they are dangerous! And if you have a break in at your house and your swinging a baseball bat at the robbers knees and he has a gun, well, good luck. My dad is a hunter and he has guns locked behind a gun cabinet. I never for one second thought it was an awful thing to posses. I respected them! I used to go to turkey shoots with my father and I thought that they were a part of life (which they are!). I had the same fear of them as crossing the street, sure cars are dangerous and you could get hit, take precautions! LOCK THEM UP! —Since Australia banned private ownership of most guns (not just including most “assault” weapons, but also to .22 rifles and shotguns) in 1996 the crime has risen dramatically, with armed robberies climbing nearly 45 percent!— America could have the same fate if Congress ever bans firearms. It is an important right for all in the nation of America, as well as other countries. If criminals know that you are unarmed and they have guns illegally they sure as heck will break into your home! In colonial America did all households have ill-fates when they’re head of households were hunters and had to kill they’re own game to survive? They were gun owners, in fact every household had guns. There was no Wal-marts and supermarkets to buy prepackaged meats at, hello, they kinda had to have them! And you know what they’re children survived because WE’RE HERE to prove it! LOCK THEM UP! BUY A SAFE!
Arguing that we need guns now because people historically needed guns is a very strange argument, to put it mildly. We also used to travel by steam engine, but I don’t suspect you eschew planes and only take Amtrack for traditions sake? We used to grow, spin, and sew all of our own clothes. Do you also have a plot of flax out back? I suppose if America entered some strange dystopic world where we all the grocery stores are gone and we’re all subsistence farming again you could make a case for people needing guns (although we’re strict vegetarians here, so we’ll just be growing soybeans). But as bad as the economy is, it’s not that bad by far.And by the by, the guns they had in colonial America were FAR different than the guns they have now. In fact, your odds of actually hitting something were generally pretty small. Duelers were usually surprised when they managed to hit their opponents (and generally didn’t intend to, anyway). They were also incredibly loud, incredibly messy, and incredibly prone to jamming up or misfiring. And it was far more difficult for children to accidentally use them, since it involved loading powder, wadding, shot, etc. That’s not at all the same as sticking a bullet in a chamber and pulling a trigger.
Let’s separate the discussion by type of gun. Most of the people posting who don’t want guns around also acknowlenge that a rifle or shotgun for hunting is legitimate to have as long as it’s safely locked. I don’t think handguns and assault rifles fall in the same category.I’m a law enforcement officer and carry a handgun because I’m required to and I’m trained to use it. But I do not want my neighbors to all have handguns, and I certainly don’t want them carrying a concealed weapon if they haven’t had the appropriate background checks and training. A quick criminal background check and a one time 4 hour safety course are not enough. If you want to carry a concealed weapon you should have a background check like I had, including medical screening, interviews with friends and neighbors, questionaires about past activities (not just convictions), polygraph and random drug tests. Then 40 hours of classroom training and 60 hours of range time (including shoot/no shoot scenarios) to prove you can draw, decide on a target and hit what you are aiming at. Then reprove yourself every 3 months. If you can’t satisfactorily do all of that, you should not have a hand gun.I live in a city and my neighbors homes are 5-15 ft from mine. A bullet fired 3-4 homes away can easily go though my house, which makes it my business if others have unsecured guns or don’t know how to use them.I don’t have a problem with someone owning shotguns or rifles as long as they are locked and unloaded. But I’m glad I live in a city that, so far, is fighting allowing all residents to have handguns.
These statistics from the American Association of Pediatricians, linked to from the article, say it all: * A gun kept in the home is 43 times more likely to kill someone known to the family than to kill someone in self-defense. * A gun kept in the home triples the risk of homicide. * The risk of suicide is 5 times more likely if a gun is kept in the home. Guns keep people safe the same way that SUVs keep people safe — in their minds, but not in reality. SUVs and guns make people FEEL safe, but in reality they make people less safe — SUVs because of the risk of flipping (they are statistically more dangerous to the people in them — and to people outside of them — than regular cars), and guns because the intruder killing scenario in everyones heads is rarely how guns are used. They are more commonly used by children, or angry spouses, or despondent parents and teenagers.Everyone thinks the statistics are not relevant to them … we are a nation of people who are more emotional than rational.
To the author: To be honest, I think that the conflict between being “a practicing Christian” and owning a gun for defense of one’s family is minimal. I took an ethics course (at a Christian college, incidentally) in which the professor discussed the ethics of self-denfense. He said that he personally would be unable to use violence to defend HIMSELF against an attack of any kind, as that would violate the ethics of loveing one’s neighbor, more or less. At the same time, he believed that it is permissible to use violence to defend one’s FAMILY against an attack (though this is still morally difficult), as such a defense doesn’t serve his self-interest but serves others. Also, he believed that it was possibly unethical to refuse to defend others against an attack, and especially one’s own family. His perspectives on these matters have always stuck with me.No, perhaps Jesus Himself would never take up arms, and if it were a perfect world, perhaps His followers never would, either. However, since our world is fallen, sometimes we have to do the best we can do and pray that God forgives us for the rest.Thanks for the thoughtful article.
Jesus specifically stated that his disciples should carry swords to protect themselves upon the roads, and if they did not have swords, they should sell their clothes to obtain them. But when the party of the twelve had produced two swords amongst them, he said, “It is enough.”It’s interesting to me the level of import that Jesus puts on self defense – if you have none, it is critical that you get some. Better to have no clothes than to be defenseless against the depredations of evil men – it serves nothing to surrender to the remorseless.And yet, too much also is not needed. It shouldn’t be an obsession or a demand or a requirement. One should take wise precautions with knowledge of what one is going into, and when that is done, it is enough.
That 43 times more statistic is from the Kellerman study, which has been thoroughly debunked. It studied three counties in the Seattle area, and has serious data problems. It lumps all deaths together, including suicides, and doesn’t take into account cases of self defense where no shot is fired, which is what happens in all but a small minority of cases.I will take advice from the American Association of Pediatricians on firearms when that same association allows me to give them advice on medical care. They have just as much expertise in the subject of firearms as I do in medicine, which is none. They need to stay in their lane, or be held accountable legally for giving advice in their official capacity as a doctor for which they have no training or experience.A locked up and unloaded firearm might as well not even be there if a home intruder comes calling. You won’t have time to get it out and load it should someone be in your home uninvited.And for our Chicago residents posting here, your gun free nirvana city takes turns with Washington D.C. as the murder capital of the U.S. Not something to be proud of. Your illegal bans will fall here shortly, no matter what Hizzonor thinks about it. I hope he doesn’t spend millions your city doesn’t have fighting to keep failed legislation that is unConstitutional.
I have had discussions about the pediatricians gun-ownership question in another on-line group. Here’s why I think it’s a mis-guided policy at best: The point to be made by the pediatrician–if any–should be gun safety for every child. The point should be to teach ALL children what to do if they see a gun or if they know another child is about to go get a gun. This holds true whether that particular family owns a gun or not! There is also no point in specifically asking the parent if they have a gun. That is nobody’s business, period. Instead, a standard talk/information sheet explaining that IF a gun is kept in the house, it should be stored in such and such a manner would convey the necessary information. It is the obvious logical solution. It covers everyone. Otherwise, you have the paradoxical situation where a parent actually has a gun, but denies ownership…and then is never told the statistics and the must-have safety rules. In my prior discussions, many people scoffed at the idea that it is not the pediatricians’s business if I personally own a gun and that I was wrong to think that it might result in criticism or negative feelings from the pediatrician. Wrong! My husband is in law enforcement. One day he got a call to take our sick child from school to the doctor’s. He left his firearm locked up at work but did not realize that he was still wearing an obviously empty holster. Our pediatrician was disgusted and furious with him! “How dare you wear that thing in here?” My husband was apologetic and assured the doctor that the firearm was far away, but the doctor was not mollified.
Do homicides, suicides and accidents mean that people should stop keeping firearms? We can try to persuade one another, but beyond that, the range of opinions offered on that subject here simply do not matter in this country. We have a Second Amendment and recent Supreme Court decision (District of Columbia v. Heller) that upholds the right to bear arms as part of a natural right to self defense. You may not remember this “natural right to self defense” part of the Constitution. Nor do I. But that is the interpretation of the highest court in our land and that is the end of it, no matter what I think.So do you want to prevent guns from being used to injure and kill children? I believe that certain people will always want to keep guns, and from a public health perspective it is essential for them to learn about safe gun storage by adults, for all the reasons that txchick and katydidmama state. That is absolutely part of a pediatrician’s job, and people should be grateful to have a doctor that cares enough about their children to ask. I, too, have a hard time reconciling safe gun storage with an effective defense from intruders. In my opinion, the posters who say they keep them either in a holster on their body OR in a legitimate gun safe are offering some solution to that dilemma. I’m grateful to them for posting.
Gahhhh. Sorry, but I think guns belong in the hands of on duty law-enforcement officers and military officers in combat or training on a base, period. I can’t even see how you EXPLAIN to your kids that you use a gun on occasion, unless you are a cop or military officer. Hey sweetie, that’s what we use to blast animals’ brains out? Oh, see that thing there? — if we are afraid of someone we kill first and ask questions later. If anyone breaks into our house? We care enough about our stuff to take a human life. I just can’t see teaching my kids that it’s OK to kill and that we are OK with machines that do that and nothing else. But that, I admit, is personal: flaming liberal here.More pragmatically: my kid’s godmom is a cop. The gun does not come inside, ever. And if I knew a family had a gun, yes, I’d want to be there supervising (same with a swimming pool). And if, in the worst case and highly unlikely scenario, someone tries to break in with the express intent of hurting my child, I’ll be the mom standing there with the big iron frying pan in my hand.But I agree with Lauren Order: don’t ask, just give the gun safety info to every parent. It’s like the way they now give out information on HIV and STDs with your marriage license, regardless if you’re a virgin or plan to be monogamous or what have you. Or condoms on the dinner plates at college freshman orientation: use ‘em or not, but don’t say I didn’t tell you.
It’s actually rather easy to make your firearm child-proof yet ready in an emergency.Lock up all the ammunition except for one loaded magazine. Keep the gun unlocked but in a high place, and put the loaded magazine in your pocket. There’s no way your children would be able to shoot themselves or someone else with an unloaded gun.
Keep answering “NO”You have no idea what they do with the information, or who will have access to it in the future.
The 43 times more likely statistic is complete bunk and has been refuted countless times. It counts suicides in the ‘bad deaths caused by guns’ number, which is rather silly, since one intent on taking one’s own life hardly needs a gun to do it. It ignores the vastly greater number of cases where a gun is successfully used to defend ones person and family *without* killing the intruder. These constitute the vast majority of successful home defense cases using a gun. Indeed, using your gun to stop the intruder without killing him is by far the preferred outcome. If you can simply hold him at gunpoint until the police arrive, that is best and a very common occurence. Or if the intruder runs at the sight of the gun or a single shot that is also good and a very common. The homeowner gunning down the intruder in a hail of bullets is the least likely and least desirable outcome. There is no need to take a human life unless necessary and often merely the threat that you could take the intruder’s life if needed is enough to send them packing. Also, yes, a gun disassembled and unloaded and locked up is useless for self defence. This is why the DC gun ban laws were struck down, as that is what they entailed. There is nothing wrong with keeping a loaded firearm in a quick access touchpad or fingerprint safe. But at any rate, the idea that guns in the home leads to piles of dead children and ruined families is all nonsense. Our ancestors for hundreds of years lived with guns in the home for hundreds of years, so I’m not sure where this unrealistic and debilitating fear of the idea of guns comes from (actually, I am – the media and a generation of Americans raised in cities and not out in the country and wholly unfamiliar with guns). Children taught properly how to use firearms are perfectly safe around them. Not so long ago, young children would have a small caliber firearm and be perfectly capable of hunting varmints. But the media’s scare campaign, combined with many people’s complete unfamiliarity of guns, has led to a ton of ignorant and extremely bigoted people anti self defense, anti second amendment people, many of whom can be seen here in this thread. They are ruled by emotions and ignorance. In actuality, a swimming pool is far more likely to kill your child than a firearm.
I see a lot of ignorant people living insular lives who have never heard of a gun being used successfully to defend oneself. This level of not knowing anything about the world we live in is pretty astounding, so I give you this list of exactly such incidents:http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/blogger.html
Also, you talk about how 90% of accidental child killings happen in houses where there is some criminal element. Now I know I am going to get a lot of argument about this, but I would have to say that most people that have guns in their homes probably fit this description.gpgirl is an incredibly ignorant bigot. You are wholly unfamiliar with the responsibilities and practices of gun owning, but feel free to casually pass judgment on those who do, declaring them most likely to be criminals. Your close mindedness is pretty staggering. What is the likelihood that you are in the bedroom when someone tries to break in?During the day, you could have the weapon in a holster by your side. You know, like cops do. My sister and I were just talking about it over lunch and we had the same theories that you did. Her story, as told, makes no sense at all unless she regularly walks around her house carrying a loaded gun.I know several mothers who do just this. Honestly, watching all the chin pulling and navel gazing from completely uninformed and clueless fearmongers about how eeeeevil guns are and now no normal people would eeeeeever want one is one part hilarious (do such out of touch people really exist in the world?) and one part saddening (how do these people manage to simultaneously leave such insular lives yet feel capable of rendering judgement on others?)
I love how the author ties to dodge the hypocrisy of being a gun owner paired with being a “practicing Christian”. There wasn’t any explanation at all. There never will be an explanation for that.That’s because there isn’t one. If you believe to be a practicing Christian one must be a pacifist, then I’m afraid your theology is badly flawed. There are numerous examples of Christians in the new testament who also happened to be soldiers, and no indication whatsoever that their occupation rendered them damned for eternity. The saying is that it’s easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven, not that it’s easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a gun owner to enter heaven. And as for the new testament…let’s just say you’re not going to find any grounds whatsoever for the idea that believers are to be pacifist. The reverse seems rather to be true, where ‘great leader’ seems to be synonymous with “slaughtered so many hundred pagans who were oppressing his people”
I think the Crusades fairly well cleared up Christian’s stance on weaponry and violence. For the record? They’re for it.
Lauren Order – lol! You should’ve seen the looks on the faces of the OB/GYN staff in labor and delivery when they noticed DH’s gun tucked into the back of his pants…..he gets paid to wear it, so he has to wear it. Big trouble if he got caught without it just so other people felt better.
Anon, what do you teach your children about being abducted? Do you teach them to just go along for the ride in the hopes they’ll be released? Same with guns – being forced to take a life in defense of your own is no different than being taught to bite or scratch out the eyes of their abductor knowing that after 3 hours you’ll probably never see them again. Can you teach them that blinding someone is a better option and more justifiable than say blowing their kneecap off not knowing whether or not the attacker/abductor who chooses not to share what their plans for them are? (in response to not wanting to teach children to take another life) as if murder is the defining word in ALL situations. lol.
I just cannot stop myself – okay, we are a law enforcement family and I am TOTALLY anti-gun – my husbands firearm is ALWAYS locked up either at work or in the safe at home and I do not even know where the safe is let alone the combination. I also respect those who use rifles for hunting – we have lived in the north (as in FAR north, north of 60) and hunting is a way of life, used to put food on the table and fur on the body as a part of survival. I get that and respect that. However, let us make a distinction here between those who keep rifles for hunting (as in useful purpose) and those who keep handguns for some deluded idea of protection. As for the person who thought that gun ownership was the same in Canada as in the US and was relying on Michael Moore for their information, he was referring to hunting rifles, not handguns. And for any of you wishing to go up against the NRA in your spare time, the reason for our huge discrepancy in attitudes and ownership of handguns between our great countries is that we have this lovely thing called gun control where everyone has to register every single firearm in their possession – also allows police officers to know when they respond to a call if there is a registered firearm in residence. And it is not quite so easy to purchase one – you actually have to pass a test and apply for a license. Guns kill, folks. Also, I do not know the actual statistic at this moment but I remember reading some frightening facts about attempted suicide and the presence of guns in the home. Truth is, if you are thinking of offing yourself, why mess around with pills and razors if Pops has a gun in his desk drawer…
Canadiangoose – I just cannot stop MYSELF. The argument that you and other anti-gun posters have made that you all respect people who own guns for hunting purposes yet those of us who own guns for protection are deluded makes no sense. What difference does it make the reason a person has a gun in their home? It’s still there. If a person is going to attempt suicide and there is a gun in the home, will he or she stop because, hey, mom or dad uses it for hunting?! Then the argument always becomes the type of gun one owns. Hunting guns are okay (rifles, shotguns, etc,) but handguns are out of the question, right? Wrong! I own a shotgun for protection purposes. So what’s the difference if I have a shotgun for hunting or protection? It’s still in my house. I am as responsible as I can logically be with it and there are a myriad of reasons that I choose to keep a gun in my home. I didn’t come at the decision lightly and it is incredibly sanctimonious of anyone to just assume one is irresponsible or deluded because that individual owns a gun.
Isn’t it quite a bit harder to kill yourself with a long barreled firearm? Aren’t they the ones usually used for hunting?I wish I could find the article I read recently showing that the impulse to suicide is often a fleeting one, and that without an opportunity (such as a bridge or a rooftop with a low railing, or an accessible gun, for example) a large number of people would never end up killing themselves.
Hey anon #6: judgment has no “e”. I judge you to be stupid.
Well, maybe it is because I have lived in the north where attitudes are different because it takes alot of chutzpah and smarts to actually survive and thrive – not just some urban cowboy rootin’ tootin’ ah got the rights to prow-TECT mah self cockamame mumbo jumbo and where children are raised to view firearms as a means to survival in a harsh climate not as a means to harm ones fellow human beings. People in the north need to rely on each other in so many ways that one would never hesitate to stop and pick someone up on the road as well as letting complete strangers into your house for a meal. I used to leave my car unlocked, complete with plugged in space heater, for street people who might have been locked out of the local Salvation Army for the night because otherwise I might find their frozen corpse in my snowbank. And, yes, they were quite welcome to the change on my dash. I understand that you will never get it – if you are so afraid that you have to feel better about the world you live in by owning a gun at whatever cost, then all I feel for you is sadness. There are a lot of things out there to be afraid of. There are also alot of things out there to trust, and most people fall into that category – maybe you think that is deluded, I call it faith.
I think that it is very, very telling that most Americans, when talking about guns, mention home defense. In other words, for you, the primary purpose of the gun is to use it against another human. We grew up with guns in the house. For hunting. If you had asked my dad what the guns were for, he’d have said, “for hunting”. The idea of the guns being for home defense would have barely entered his mind. We kids were never even curious about them. They were just Dad’s boring old hunting rifles. I think most other Canadians who grew up around guns have had a similar experience. When you start thinking of it in the context of using it against another human being, that is when your mindset changes and that is when guns become forbidden, dangerous, and all-too alluring to kids.
After Katrina, my very liberal democrat vegetarian husband bought a gun. He takes it very seriously, gun safety classes, gun safes and even practice at the range. I’m not 100% happy about it, but his careful behavior sure beats my dad’s rifle propped up in the closet and my mom’s revolver stashed on a high shelf. I think his idea is if there is a break-in while we are sleeping, the gun in it’s safe is in our bedroom. If we were awake and not backed into a back hall, of course we would just leave and call for help. I agree with that is good to have a healthy respect for firearms whether or now you keep them in your home.
As for Jesus’s opinion: “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”
Of course, like anything in the Bible, there is a lot of room for interpretation. Interesting analysis here: http://www.loveyourenemies.org/sword.html