God's Army
For the Quiverfull movement, a huge family isn't just a blessing.
“Oh what a vision, to invade the earth with mighty sons and daughters who have been trained and prepared for God’s divine purposes.” — Nancy Campbell, Be Fruitful and Multiply
In late January, when Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar, parents to eighteen children and stars of a TLC reality show about their twenty-member family, came onto The View with their newborn daughter, Jordyn, Barbara Walters asked the couple what their motivation was in having such an immense family – was it their religion?
The camera-seasoned couple, well known as the friendly face of the conservative pro-natalist movement Quiverfull, gave a credible pause of consideration before answering.
“Well, it’s amazing,” Jim Bob began, and retold the story of Michelle’s use of birth control in their early marriage and the later miscarriage they attribute to it. Michelle chimed in: “At that point, we were just brokenhearted, because here we were holding one baby in our arms, enjoying being parents, and then realized we had lost that baby. And so at that point, that was when we really just searched the scriptures and we found that God says that children are a gift, and a blessing, and a reward from him.” Michelle’s voice lilted into sing-song as she smiled down at baby Jordyn. “At that point,” she continued, “we said, Lord, give us a love for children like you love children.” Then, said Michelle, God gave them twins, and more than a dozen more, and still counting.
Quiverfull, as a number of people have learned over the past several years from endless TLC and Discovery channel specials on the Duggars and their palatial Arkansas home, is a conservative Christian conviction to have as many children as God gives a family, accepting each child as an unqualified “blessing” and a demonstration of radical faith in God. It’s a movement of pro-life purists seeded by the separatist strain of the conservative homeschooling community, who fight what they call the “contraceptive mentality” by refusing to limit their family size. Couples who follow the conviction forgo almost all birth control options, usually considering contraception a form of abortion and viewing even natural family planning as an attempt to control a realm, fertility, that should be entrusted to divine providence.
The Duggars, who consider themselves part of that movement and are certainly its most prominent members, attract disparate responses: adoration and disgust, respect and condemnation. But what many viewers of TV appearances agree upon is how sweet the family seems. What’s given far less play in any of the TV coverage of the family is the core of the Quiverfull conviction that informs the Duggars and a growing movement of conservative homeschoolers: that the biggest threat to modern society is women’s equality, and that conservative believers should fight feminism by raising large families to embrace radically patriarchal gender roles of wifely submission and male headship, and teach their daughters to do the same.
When I began researching my book, Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement, I was surprised to stumble upon the Quiverfull community. I was investigating the movement of pro-life pharmacists refusing to fill birth control prescriptions, and I was fascinated to read the counter-revolutionary call to arms of the anti-feminist activists who popularized the Quiverfull conviction in the mid-1980s. They urged women toward militant fecundity in the service of religious rebirth: creating what they bluntly referred to as an army of devout children to serve as “arrows” in spiritual battle against God’s enemies.
When people talk about large families in U.S. culture today – a topic given a lot of play following the Duggars’ latest birth and the recent octuplets delivered to California mother Nadya Suleman, a number of recurring questions crop up: Is it environmentally irresponsible for parents to bring so many children into the world when each increases their carbon footprint exponentially? Are parents of such large families expecting government assistance in our already-strained financial times? How can they give quality attention to each child, or even begin to consider college costs?
These are interesting discussions, but not the most important thing to understand about the Quiverfull movement. In order for a woman to be Quiverfull, she must embrace a life of absolute submission and obedience to God, her husband, and the cause of Christian revival – winning the culture wars – by having more children than the “other side.” At the heart of this call is Quiverfull’s insistence that women’s individual rights and desires are of secondary importance to the larger cause.
As Quiverfull leader Mary Pride, author of the founding text of the movement, The Way Home: Beyond Feminism, Back to Reality, wrote: “My body is not my own”- deliberately tweaking the title of the feminist health classic, Our Bodies, Ourselves, to make a point about women’s need to become “maternal missionaries” by having as many children as God gives them. And it’s this ideological grounding, tying the Quiverfull conviction to growing anti-contraception and pro-natalist movements worldwide, that makes Quiverfull arguments relevant far beyond the movements’ small, but growing, numbers (there are currently tens of thousands of followers).
Nadya Suleman and the Gosselin family – who started the TLC large-family roster with their reality program Jon and Kate Plus Eight – are not part of the Quiverfull movement, which is generally opposed to assisted reproductive technologies as well as birth control. However, their manner of speaking about their large families seems evidence of Quiverfull rhetoric making its way into the mainstream. In her Dateline interview on MSNBC, Suleman spoke of her children as “blessings” in much the way that Quiverfull families speak of their own children as “my eight – or ten, or twelve – little blessings.”
“What would possess a family… to want twelve kids or eighteen kids?” said Suleman, making a clear reference to the Duggar brood. “That’s just what they feel is meaningful to them. Their family. Expanding a family. It’s an amazing thing. I do believe that children are all blessings from God.”
Polite, respectful and obedient children are typical of the movement. On the first occasion I spent time with a family that follows the Quiverfull conviction, I found myself in a rural suburb north of Atlanta at a two-family picnic that nonetheless boasted eleven children: the eight children of the Georgia hosts, and the three of a young Alabama couple who’d only just started their family. As I sat at a picnic table with the four parents and one nursing newborn, the elder children tended to the younger siblings without being asked, automatically rising from the picnic table to pick up a fallen, wailing toddler outside, and otherwise exemplifying the distinctly polite, respectful, and obedient manners typical of children of the movement.
The scene was, in action, what Quiverfull families think of as evangelism by example: proving through their own children that large families do not have to be unruly, but that well-behaved children can serve as inspiration to couples on the fence about giving up family planning, who compare children like these with misbehaving brats they encounter on the street. Then they’ll ask, “How did you raise kids like that?,” and the Quiverfull parents will explain their family philosophy of how it’s easier with more, how older children learn to help out and shoulder responsibilities, and all of the children understand the mature necessity of sacrificing individual desire to the common family good.
That’s a broad enough standard to allow for various interpretations, including mainstream beliefs that children should help out in the family and not expect to always have their way. In the Quiverfull movement, which graduates new believers from accepting many children to a deeper study of movement literature about women’s submission to the headship of the fathers and husbands, it often becomes a lifestyle of rigid hierarchy and duty. Many women who have left the movement say that the experience of Quiverfull daughters is to learn early that their role is limited to the domestic and that their highest calling is in becoming mothers and wives. It can be a life of crushing toil, as former Quiverfull believer Cheryl Lindsey Seelhoff explains. “The Quiverfull movement holds up as examples men like the Duggars : all men of means. But for every family like this, there are ten or fifty or one hundred Quiverfull families living in what most would consider to be poverty : Mothers are in a constant cycle, often, of pregnancy, breastfeeding, and the care of toddlers.”
Among the children, it’s daughters who bear the remaining weight of the lifestyle their parents have chosen, regularly taking over a great deal of the housework and childcare involved in such a large family, and often having their educational opportunities curtailed as homeschooling lessons are tailored to what they’ll need in their “future careers” as wives and mothers. College away from home is usually out of the question.
In the literature of the movement, seeing children as advertisements for the faith is just a forerunner to other metaphors that stress the utility of offspring, as movement leaders envision shaping the world through an exponentially growing line of descendents. The name of the movement, Quiverfull, is taken from Psalm 127, the scriptural cornerstone of the movement, which reads: “Like arrows in the hand of a warrior, so are the children of one’s youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them.” Following this, the language of children as arrows in a warrior’s quiver, tools of battle to be used against others, is rampant. “Children are our ammunition in the spiritual realm to whip the enemy!” adds one Quiverfull advocate, Rachel Scott, in her movement book, Birthing God’s Mighty Warriors.
While the militaristic language of weaponry describes “spiritual war” and not physical violence, what remains troubling is the reinforcement this language gives to children’s position in this movement: implements of war, valuable – and surely deeply loved by their parents – but nonetheless designed for sacrifice on the altar of their parents’ vision.
Among yet more extreme believers, such as the pro-patriarchy homeschooling ministry Vision Forum, some movement leaders urge followers to develop a “200-year plan,” to chart out generations of children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren for centuries to come, along with tasks they want those descendents to fulfill to glorify the family name. “If the Christian Church had not listened to the humanistic lies of the enemy and limited their families,” writes Vision Forum founder Doug Phillips in an introduction to the movement book Be Fruitful and Multiply, “the army of God would be more powerful in this hour. The enemy’s camp would be trembling.”
Some movement leaders urge followers to develop a “200-year plan.” It’s absurd, on one hand, to believe that two hundred years’ worth of heirs will follow an ancestor’s goals so closely, but it’s also a logical extension of the “demography is destiny” argument that Quiverfull relies upon: that through the sheer number of their offspring they will be able to enact their will upon the culture around them.
The problem with the Quiverfull movement isn’t so much the threat that the bombastic calls of its leaders for demographic dominion will come true, rendering America the reconstructed Puritan colony that the far right imagines. Rather, it’s the enforcement of a stringent chain of command on all of its adherents, but especially its women, in the name of such a plan, so that women are told to sacrifice their bodies and individual desires as an offering to God. Many Quiverfull mothers follow the example of leaders calling for such self-sacrifice but, without the wealth and high-profile the Duggar family enjoys, life on the path to number eighteen is far different for them. This isn’t the stuff of reality TV, but it is the reality of what underlies this movement.








Thanks for writing this article. It may just scare me into having more children to counter this crazy political agenda. Clearly, my husband and I need to be procreating more so that this world will have more educated, left-leaning, anti-religion “blessings” scouring the Earth. I am only half-kidding.
I grew up in the midst of the home-schooled, quiverfull, uber-religious movement. I do feel the need to defend them, a little. These are genuinely good people who mean well. They are a little odd, yes, but they are essentially good honest people who live responsibly and raise their children well. As for the environmental concerns, in my experience, most people in this movement believe strongly in growing their own food, eating organic, living very simply, and consuming very little. So in fact their lifestyles are probably more environmentally friendly than us regular folks’. I am the oldest of 7, a fairly small family by the standards of some in my community. There are definite downsides–girls are not always encouraged to go to college, and there is a strong emphasis on homemaking skills, but it’s not like the boys get to lounge around and watch football all day–in fact, many of these families don’t even own television sets. Honestly I always thought the guys had it harder. They had to go out with their fathers and do hard physical labor at a pretty young age, while us girls got to hang out at home and play with the babies and bake and read. The boys are expected to be men, to provide and contribute, and to be fully prepared to raise and support a family. Expectations are higher for them. Yes, there’s all the submission and stuff for girls, but the men are expected to be worth submitting to. They really are held to a very high standard. Because people are flawed, some men end up not deserving the love and submission of their wives, but most are very good men. Please don’t portray these people as cultist misogynist freaks. I left that movement, went to college, got tattoos, and am generally considered something of a black sheep, but I do retain a fondness for these people and I recognize the good things inherent in them.
Children are not arrows or weapons in a cultural war…they are people deserving of attention and the right to explore their individuality. I personally don’t see how parents can properly nurture their kids properly when they have SO MANY. I am the other extreme. I am committed to having just one because I know that I can only give the kind of care and attention I think is appropriate and can only provide the living standard I hold as appropriate for one childespecially in these uncertain times.
One thing I didn’t see in the article is any mention that the women in this situation can’t leave- in fact, Teigen Wong’s comments above suggest that leaving is fairly easy. If that is the case, isn’t being this subjugated a choice these women are making? And isn’t feminism about respecting others’ freely-made choices? I don’t like it, for their sake, that these women are boiling down their usefulness to baby- and homemaking, but if that is how they want to live their lives, why should it be troubling? Is it troubling because it is done in the service of religion? I don’t see how that changes the analysis, because again, it is the choice each woman is making.
I don’t care for the ideas of the movement one bit, but I guess I don’t see the point of the handwringing and judgment about the anti-feminist nature of the group, given that- from all appearances- the women choose this lifestyle, with all its attendant restrictions. It would seem to me that respecting those choices is what feminism really means.
And Teigen Wong, I appreciate your comments quite a bit. It’s nice to hear a voice who was “on the inside,” so to speak.
I disagree. A child doesn’t choose to be homeschooled.
It always comes down to the “submission and stuff” — is that worth fighting over? If the opressed are happy, is it all okay? I would say these parents aren’t giving their kids a fair shake at what most people consider the the biggest advantage of this modern world: an education. I am making that assumption based on the description of the “strong emphasis on homemaking skills”, and maybe that’s not entirely fair. Maybe these girls were taught math and science and history and art. But if they were only taught to sew, cook and clean… well, that’s not really cool. No matter how sweet and loving the family is.
We have public school because we’re not supposed to raise kids to be our workers.
My children did choose to be homeschooled. I agreed for many reasons but mostly because I did not want them to grow up to be workers, conformists, submissive and followers. Not every home schooler is a religious nut. We are athesists and our kids do just fine. Public school is to teach conformity and to give kids a place to go so we can go to work.
It seems like with each passing year the “Christian” Right becomes more and more like the Taliban. They also do not believe in limiting number of children because god wants them to populate the Earth. They also do not believe in adoption, preferring to let the abandoned infants and children die instead because they are not blood relatives and are another man’s seed ( Like tomcats). The Taliban also believes they need to recruit and populate their masses to fight a great war, a Jihad, just the the Fundies do. The Taliban believes the Koran to be interpreted literally just as the Fundies think the Bible is a literal cook book except for the parts they dont understand or decide to ignore. They are also full of egomaniacal men who control women and children as possessions. Full of women happy to be lower on the food chain and considered easily replaced. Happy to be a “vessal” for her husband’s seed. To serve your husband is to serve god since in their minds they are the same. The women follow because it is easy. They dont want to get away, then they would have to think and do for themselves. They are also overflowing with ignorant, poorly educated morons with nothing but big mouths and their hands out wanting more.
I don’t claim to know the mind of God (and you’re darn tootin’ these Quiverfull nuts don’t know it either), so I won’t comment on the religious aspect of this. People have done all manner of weird, ridiculous things in the name of religion. It’s a very convenient excuse for lots of choices we make.
But the selfishness of having so many children…it’s repugnant. It is simply impossible for any parent who has such a number of children to form a relationship with each of them individually. Instead, and in another grave crime, so many children robs the older kids of their own childhoods…turning them into surrogate parents for the ever-growing brood.
It’s a compulsion, and a very unfortunate one. I don’t call for anything like China’s One Child policy, but rather I would like society at large to condemn the compulsive baby-producing behavior of crazies like this.
And the fact is, most extremely large families in the world are quite poor. Guess who pays for that…? As the author states, the folks on tv are not the real deal, so to speak.
A big family is a great thing. I have three younger siblings and we’re all very close. But 18 children? Disgusting. I feel sorry for them and blame the parents ENTIRELY.
I come from a large family, I am the oldest of six. My parents just loved children and love each of us. We were not of means, but we were not on welfare either. It was just tight, there was not much disposible income, therefore we had no cable tv, or x-box or all the other gagetry that is taken for granted. I was expected to help out in the house, with my sibs. I joke that I have been taking care of kids my entire life, from childhood with my sibs, thru early adult hood with my kids and now I care for my grandchildren on a regular basis. What is wrong with this picture? Not much that I can see.
“we have public schools because we’re not supposed to raise kids to be our workers” What is this? seriously, who is supposed to be working? I was raised to be a contributing member of our society, as were my sibs, as were my kids, and now, as are my grandkids. We are/were raised to take our place out here, to shoulder the burdens, whatever they are.
“The boys are expected to be men, to provide and contribute, and to be fully prepared to raise and support a family. Expectations are higher for them. Yes, there’s all the submission and stuff for girls, but the men are expected to be worth submitting to.”
Tiegen hits the nail squarely on the head. Where are the men worth submitting to? And what calling is more important than making a home?
I believed all the feminist line, but in the 44 years on this earth, I wonder sometimes in the wisdom of it all. Today, I am of the first generation of women who will work their entire adult lives out here. I was unable to be a homemaker when the kids were little, I had to work to support them. I did not find a man worth submitting to until later in life. Now, we look down our nose at the large family, but there isn’t a day that goes by that I look at a teen or older child in utter shock at the indifference and selfishness displayed.
While a large family is not for everyone, I am not so sure that the values instilled by them is something we should be so quick to throw away.
I realize that this article focuses on a specific Christian movement in the U.S. that has recently received widespread media attention. However, it is worth mentioning that other major religions have similar movements. In the Jewish faith men and women who are Haredi and Hasidic Jews share similar beliefs and as a result have an average of 8 children. Conservative Islam supports polygamy with a goal of having as many Muslim children as possible for the glory of Allah. The Quiverfull movement is not new or unique, it is only remarkable in this country where the average family has 1.8 children.
Thanks for this interesting article. I loved hearing Ms. Wong’s comments and her unique perspective. This is obviously an issue that many people are passionate about. I appreciated Patricia comments, too. It is sometimes easy to forget that being open-minded means respecting the choices that other women make, even if they are vastly different than our own.
I couldn’t agree more with Patricia up there – the pendelum is swinging so quickly in such a drastic anti-religion direction I can hardly believe it. I understand the hard feelings towards certain members of Christianity..BUT in an effort to become politically correct, or stylish – which seems to be the case a lot.., we are replacing Christianity w/ another religion: Atheism. I am happy to live in this country where all religions are supposed to be accepted and tolerated. But, my own religion seems to be resented from every direction now..almost criminalized. I also agree w/ lalahem: All of a sudden having a moral code..having values..and teaching these things to your kids is a TERRIBLE thing. That’s silly y’all. It seems like so many people are trying to be the “anti-traditional” family and THAT movement is going in a silly direction. If your choices are made based on rebelling against your own raising – you are raising your children out of spite.
And, for some reason these judgements fall only on Christianity…mostly protestant Christianity. What about Catholic families? What about Islamic families? Why are they not attacked for having many children?
Here’s the deal: If you all have a right to raise your children the way you like and make your own family choices and have your own convictions – they they do too. I wish people could just leave them alone – I wish people would focus all this concern on the real monster parents out there: the abusers, the neglectors, the drug addicted… by criminalizing families in the quiverfull movement you are watering down our understanding of the words – bad parent.
That girl
www.http://heyyourememberme.blogspot.com
Also, when the cool mom’s want to stay home w/ their little ones, why is their choice respected?
That girl
I truly wonder what happens when a man doesn’t live up to his end of the bargain? Do they allow divorce without stigma? Are the women protected from abuse and allowed to speak of it openly and without shame? Who makes sure the men are worthy of their wives and children?
Often women in such societies are judged quite harshly when they are not what is deemed to be a good woman. But who makes sure the men are good? That part is often just lip service. Part of the theory, but not always the practice. I’m sure there are good people in the movement, just as there are everywhere.
Still, good people still shouldn’t “blanket train” their children. Good husbands don’t want their wives having children against medical advice. Sane people don’t push their bodies to the brink. It sounds like it makes an idol of procreation.
Women should not be made to submit themselves to anyone (except perhaps God). Men are not gods and do not deserve our submission.
My question and concern is how much autonomy and free-thinking do the children truly have? It seems (and maybe I’m wrong) that Quiverfull families are quite isolated and sheltered. Are these children raised and educated about culture(s), the arts, politics, etc.? Of course, not all families are raised exactly the same, Quiverfull or not. Also, I wonder how much the children are encouraged to educate themselves and make their own choices. That is what concerns me most – are they truly able to explore the things they are curious about and then make their own educated decisions? If the children are making educated, informed decisions to follow the movement like their parents, then great. Otherwise, it is just sad and wrong.
I hope that if any child raised in the Quiverfull movement chooses to disagree with the movement’s core or peripheral beliefs, just happens to be gay (with 10, 12, or 18 children some will be gay), believes in feminism, is left-leaning, etc…well, I hope they are still loved and accepted by their family. I respectfully disagree with the movement’s beliefs, but I wonder how much they are open and respectful to others (strangers and family alike).
“But the selfishness of having so many children…it’s repugnant. It is
simply impossible for any parent who has such a number of children to
form a relationship with each of them individually. Instead, and in
another grave crime, so many children robs the older kids of their own
childhoods…turning them into surrogate parents for the ever-growing
brood. ”
amen! yes!
Hmm, lots of interesting comments here. I’m glad everyone seemed to appreciate my perspective. So nice to feel useful.I’ll respond to a couple things. First, I never really minded taking care of my younger siblings. I adored my brother and sisters and really it’s a great ego boost to be trusted with the welfare of your siblings. I still had plenty of down time. Yeah, okay, there are days I was snarky about it because come on, I was a teenager, but overall I had no objection. Now I am very glad because I feel it made me better prepared for life and the challenges I will face when I choose to have my own children. (And yes, I presently use birth control.)And secondly, homeschooling is AWESOME. Okay, I didn’t totally appreciate it at the time because I had never been to public school and couldn’t compare it, but after having been to college and spent time tutoring public-schooled students, I must say homeschooling f-ing ROCKS. I would wake up around 8 am, have breakfast, do my chores. Sit down and do some English and science workbooks with my mom. Do my French and typing and math programs on the computer. Go outside for a little botany lesson (i.e. caring for the vegetable garden.) Get to read a couple more chapters of my favorite book, on which I’m doing an essay. Lunch at noon, then maybe another 1/2 hour of school work, and I was DONE for the day. My time was my own til dinner. My mother had a B.A. in elementary education and biology, and was able to tailor my education to me specifically. And I was on the dean’s list in college, so don’t worry, the shorter school day did me no harm. I think my experience was fairly typical. I would totally homeschool my kids at least until high school.I never felt like a ‘slave’ or a ‘tool’ of my parents. I was a valued and productive member of the family. I was necessary. It’s a great feeling. Of course my life wasn’t all sunshine and daisies, we’re all still human, but overall I’d say my parents did a great job. My mom wanted me to be a thinker and encouraged me to read. They exposed us to many cultures and worldviews. I wasn’t given an allowance, but I was taught to earn my own money and was able to save up and buy myself a horse when I was 8. I consider myself very autonomous. My parents did have a relationship with each of us–in fact, my dad made a point of taking each of us out for breakfast on our birthdays every year, and my mom would make sure to take each of us girls out for a shopping day from time to time–me in particular, since I babysat so frequently. As for the adoption issue, my youngest brother is adopted, and I know for a fact that many Quiverfull families take in foster children, and some take in unwed mothers who would otherwise feel the need to seek an abortion. After the child is born they assist her whether she chooses to raise it or put it up for adoption, and then they continue to support her wherever her choices lead her. In summary–yes, there are certain members of the Quiverfull movement that are kind of nuts, that are far too patriarchal, that are far too sanctimonious. I have encountered them numerous times. But overall I would say that these people are good, responsible, morally conscious people trying to raise their children to be productive, happy, compassionate members of a society too self-centered for its own good.
Oh, and someone asked about the divorce thing. That one is complicated. Divorce isn’t encouraged. Some circles ban it altogether, and some allow it in cases of abuse, infidelity, or abandonment. It varies. However, I can tell you that should a man in one of these communities mistreat his wife or children, there are a lot of other men around to set him straight but good. I remember when I was young my family took in a friend and her daughter. The father had been mistreating them. I think they tried to work it out but ended up getting a divorce eventually. Essentially, I would say that while divorce is strongly discouraged, there is a strong support network to help the men to be better fathers and husbands and to protect the women and children. Also, boys are raised in an old-fashioned way, which means to respect and cherish women. When I was young, all the boys in our group were very diligent about holding doors, pulling out chairs, taking our coats, and generally being chivalrous. It was pretty sweet really, to see all the four and five year olds trying to be little gentlemen.
Hardly. What IS a terrible thing is that religious people have gone around for ages acting as though a moral code and values belong solely to the religious. That is part of the reason why we atheists are fed up.
My husband and I are atheist, and have very good morals and strong values, and it is beyond insulting to be told over and over by society and by individuals, that because we have no religion, we obviously have no morals and values. That is part of the reason why there is now such a backlash, especially when we see public paragons of religion who have been caught in acts that show that their own values are sorely lacking.
I am currently pregnant, and I have lost count of how many people have asked me if I’m going to have the baby baptized, and when we say “no”, they’re appalled that we won’t be bringing our child up with any religion, because how will we teach them morals and values? It’s not only insulting to the atheists, but it’s insulting to the religious, because it’s implying that if it weren’t for religion, you’d be a depraved, slavering criminal.
So if you’re wondering why people are getting louder about being anti-religion, and why they’re starting to mock the holier-than-thou, that’s part of the reason — we’re tired of being treated like untrustworthy, immoral, second-class citizens. And if you don’t believe me, read the study in the American Sociological Review that says “Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and
lesbians and other minority groups in ‘sharing their vision of American
society.’ Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least
willing to allow their children to marry.”
So don’t worry too much about that pendulum. It obviously hasn’t swung as far as you think.
For those commenting in self-righteous horror at “Quiverfull” children not getting to make choices or be free-thinkers, one thing to keep in mind is that the vast majority of families *don’t* encourage their children to be truly free-thinking. I was raised in a left-wing household, and my views were so strongly shaped by that that I cannot consider myself “free-thinking.” I was indoctrinated with liberal, left-wing values just as strongly as the Duggars are indoctrinating their children with their values. That’s what families do. As parents, we all have strong feelings about what we want for our children. We don’t leave it up to them, we teach them our values and hope that they follow them. If they don’t, we mostly feel disappointed and worried. The Duggars would surely be shocked if one of their kids left their religion. Us left-wingers would be equally dismayed if one of our kids joined it. It is interesting, though, that the “Quiverfull” mentality is so patriarchal — the Duggar t.v. show is so sanitized that it’s hard to get anything beyond all the warm fuzziness.
Johanny, thanks for being honest enough to point out the obvious. It’s a pet peeve of mine when non-religious or liberal families try to claim that they’re just “letting our children make up their own minds” by raising them without typically religious values. The religious must be replaced by SOMETHING; in this case, secularism or humanism, or what have you. And, as you pointed out, if any of their children decided to become evangelical Christians or traditional conservatives, chances are that the liberal parents WOULD be really disappointed, even scornful of their child’s choices.
Teigen Wong, thanks for the insight into how you were raised. For as many nutty quiverfull families as there are out there, there have got to be a few that aren’t. You also pointed out how young boys would try to be little gentlemen, which I think speaks to the fact that while some traditional conservative movements teach that the wife must “submit”, they also teach that the husband should “love his wife as Christ loved the church,” i.e. by serving her and loving her to the point of self-sacrifice. I think that our world could use a bit more of that. (Pardon me if I’m reading too much into your words, but that is the image that sprang to mind.)
This is a really interesting discussion. Even those who are less than polite and are actually vitriolic have something to contribute.
“My parents did have a relationship with each of us–in fact, my dad made a point of taking each of us out for breakfast on our birthdays every year, and my mom would make sure to take each of us girls out for a shopping day from time to time–me in particular, since I babysat so frequently.”
My point exactly. I’m sure you had a nice childhood…but your Dad took you out individually once a…year? Imagine doubling the amount of children in your family…how often would it happen then?
I think it’s a shame when a parent has so many offspring they can’t really form a bond or an intimate, loving relationship with their kids individually.
Religion? Atheist? No difference. Having so many kids is selfish.
This is not about being religious or atheist, its about populating the earth beyond the capacity it can support!
Does anyone remember the basic biology class from school? About bacteria population? When bacteria grow to an extent that their habitat cannot sustain them, large quantities of them get destroyed, till they reduce to a critical mass. Then they start multiplying themselves and the whole cycle repeats.
Given our brains, I was hoping that humans would act better than bacteria, but so much for hope!
As an elementary school teacher, I have one comment. Why do we worry so much about children in a family of 12 receiving enough individual attention from a homeschooling mom, but not about kids in a public school classroom of 35? These moms spend 24 hours a day, 7 days per week, every year with their kids. Kids in a public school are shuffled from teacher to teacher every year, in groups of almost double the size of Quiverfull families. I love my job, and I love my students, but I wonder who is really receiving the attention that they need.
I found this article and the comments from readers so interesting. While I think that having 18 children and adherely to the Quiverfull lifestyle can absolutely be viewed as extreme, so can waiting untill you’re 40 to have a child and then having to go through invasive, expensive infertility treatments to get the baby that you put off for years in order to fulfill your career aspirations. Personally, I’m all for moderation – two or three kids in your twenties or thirties – but I also think that as long as these women are truly making their own choices, be it 18 kids or just one later in life, then I say, go for it.In America, we have the right to choose our own path, thank goodness.
The issue of submission is an interesting one. It could also be said that we as women in our society are submitting to our culture and our husbands by waiting to have children and having less of them. How many women have been told they couldn’t have a baby by their partners because they couldn’t afford it? How many times does our society reinforce that women should wait until marriage and stability to have children even if by that point they are almost at the end of their reproductive years? How many times are we told our careers or educations are more important then doing what we are set here to do; reproduce.
I am not defending the lifestyle of having 18 children or saying that there is not an anti-feminist/anti-woman aspect that is scary. I am an atheist and the last thing I believe is that a woman’s body belongs to God. However our bodies should not belong to our bosses or our husbands or our families either. We should not be resisting having children simply for the benefit of the economic system. That too is anti-feminist, but widely accepted.
To Michael Butz: My dad spent a fair amount of time with us, but not always individually. He was a logger and often took us to work with him. I learned to operate a backhoe and a chainsaw, among other interesting skills that I will probably never have cause to use again. =) The birthday breakfast was one special thing that we always looked forward to and counted on because it was fun, not work, and because it was certain to be just us. As the oldest, I imagine I got a little more attention than my younger siblings. Honestly, I don’t recall ever feeling like I didn’t get enough attention–in fact, I specifically remember feeling a bit smothered at times! My parents were attentive to the point of nosiness sometimes, and they went out of their way to give us positive and unique experiences. When I was 13 my dad took me to do relief work in orphanages in Ukraine. That’ll make a teenager pretty un-self-absorbed in no time. All parents should do that!
Interesting article and worth reading, though it is a little one-sided. Thanks to Teigen Wong for some ballast! And some great comments by other readers as well. Just for the record … I am a Deist and a Buddhist, not a Christian, and yet I consider my children to be very much blessings from God. We had to use IVF to get them here, but I think that God helps those who help themselves.
Right on, Johanny. I myself was raised Catholic, don’t practice anymore, and am way left of center in most respects. But honestly, the whole religion/too many children/green-centric debate smacks of insecurity on the part of the posters. (just like the stay-at-home/work outside-the-home Mommy wars). If you’re happy with the way you’re raising your children, just do it and stop judging everyone else.
Brooke Johnson: wow! super thought-provoking. I’d love to hear more about your views on the subject.
I also wanted to comment on the notion that atheists are “in charge” and Christians are persecuted – it’s actually not possible for atheists to get elected into high offices, while Christians hold nearly all of them. I wouldn’t say that that means the Christians are the ones being persecuted, would you?
I’m sick of the notion that you need to be religious in order to be moral and decent, and teach morality and decency to your children. C’mon, people – we all share pretty much the same values, whether we believe in the big man in the sky or not.
wow
I came back to check and I am really stunned.
For the record: I was raised in a Christian Home. My mother did work outside the home, on and off during my childhood. I am currently a Muslim. My parents monitored but did not censor the books I read or the movies that I watched. All six of us grew up to be successfull, as defined by working mostly full time and being registered voters…well except for one brother who has tatoos and does not vote out of spite. ok that was a joke
For the record: my three children run the gammet from pagan to catholic, I’m still muslim.
When I said values, I meant these kind:
You contribute to the good of the whole
You work within a team-many hands makes light work
You sacrifice sometimes for your family, sometimes your family sacrifices for you
There’s no such thing as man’s work or woman’s work-hunger has no gender
Everyone changes diapers and everyone watches out for the little kids.
These are the values that living in a large family instilled in us and I have tried to instill in my own kids. These are the ones that our society can take a second look at.
Religion is a side note. I don’t want to get into a shouting match regarding all the pathetic evil and horrible things that people have done to each other in the name of God, it’s awful. Bunny2 has a point, the fine points of values may differ from sect to sect, but I have noticed that for the most part, most of us tend to think more alike than different.
Bottom line: If you are happy with 18 kids, cool with me. If you are content being stay at home, also fine. I’m jealous, but in all honesty, I can only spend so much time in my house. Wanna have a career? Go for it! Married? if that turns your crank, ok by me, wildly satisfied being single. That’s great too. But when it comes my turn to live my life as I see fit, I expect you to be happy for me, too.
Religion was invented by powerful men to control the weak and huddled masses. They encourage mass pro-creation to increase their own power then dress it up with fancy words like “little blessings” to make it more palatable.
No, religion is the belief that there is someone/something out there that is more powerful and important then your wants and society’s downfalls. It gives people something to believe in and hold on to when everything else seems hopeless.
I am religious, and while I do not believe that the Bible (or any other religious text) was meant to be taken literally and can be taken out of context a lot- I also believe that organized religion gives people a sense of community that they may otherwise not have.
I think that we are all told what to think, how to live, what to do our entire lives by our family and by outside sources. It just depends on what those outside sources are that shapes what those beliefs are. A liberal family is no different then a conservative, an atheist no different then catholic- in that they are “indoctrining” their children to their beliefs… those children will decide if they are their own or not while they grow up and form their own thoughts and opinions. The only place you can go wrong is that if you toss them out/don’t accept them/mock them for having beliefs that are different then your own. We can all abide by that actually, just respect everyone. Their beliefs came from somewhere and they are no more right or wrong then anyone else. Fight for what you do think is important, raise your children/structure your marriage the way you see fit and let those without respect of others form a bad example of others like them all on their own.
Just want to say I cannot wait to read this book. I am very interested to learn more about this mindset, especially since two children are completely overwhelming me. Ha! But I do find it alternatingly fascinating and horrifying and would love to read more about what the lifestyle is life, especially from those who are disillusioned. Thank you for writing this book – it is going to be at the top of my list.
http://www.letmesmellyourbutt.typepad.com
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for writing this!! It drives me insane to hear about how cute and well-behaved the Duggars are– and they are– those polished, expressionless faces are exactly what it seems everyone wants to see. The children never fight, the home is always clean, the girls all wear dresses and have long hair, and the wife is (deliriously?) happy ALL THE TIME. This is not life, this is not something to be idealized. They are as much cute and well-behaved as they are used, manipulated, and brain-washed. The adults’ COMPULSION to procreate is, I believe, pathological. Instead of bearing child after child following her miscarriage, it sounds like poor Mrs. Duggar could have benefitted from some intense one-on-one therapy. ****Just because they CAN leave doesn’t mean it’s easy or that they are making a choice by staying.**** This is exactly the kind of thought process that makes us blame women who are beaten up by their husbands every night, because they CHOOSE a punch in the face over the wide-open opportunity of simply leaving and starting over again, right?
meghan eckner – Why do you find it so hard to believe that maybe Michelle Duggar is actually choosing, by her own free will, to have a lot of children? I think comparing her to a woman who has been the victim of domestic violence is a real stretch. Just beacuse it wasn’t your choice, or the choice of most women, it doesn’t mean she was forced into this lifestyle by anyone. Maybe, just maybe, she really does believe that all of her children are blessings. It’s not the lifestyle that I am choosing for myself, but I don’t have the audacity to think that just because it’s not for me, it shouldn’t be for anybody.
“While the militaristic language of weaponry describes “spiritual war”
and not physical violence, what remains troubling is the reinforcement
this language gives to children’s position in this movement: implements
of war, valuable and surely deeply loved by their parents but
nonetheless designed for sacrifice on the altar of their parents’
vision.”
Come on. Ask any one of those Duggar children if they are glad to be alive or if they feel like they are a “sacrifice on the altar of their parents’ vision”.
Amanda B– I think you missed the point of the comparison I was making. My point was targeted at posts who say that these women (not necessarily Mrs. Duggar, but whoever is born into lifestyles like this) are choosing this kind of life, as evidenced by the fact that they are not leaving. This is the same thought process involved in blaming victims of domestic abuse for not leaving their abusers– it just isn’t that simple. Maybe some are consciously choosing this life, but to assume that they all are is just wrong.
I would certainly like to believe that it’s as simple as choosing, but I don’t, especially when it involves a religion like this that stresses one group maintain constant and unwavering submission to another group in the name of God. Call me audacious all you want, but I think something fishy is happening there. I think it’s fair to say that these beliefs are extreme, and history shows that extremists like this tend to be a bit on the scary side. And if you really honestly think that bearing child after child like this is not a concern for the women involved, the families involved, or the societies involved, then we simply disagree and there’s no argument to be had!
Sure, all parents raise their children with their values, and have a right to do so, but I think some are confusing the way these values are instilled. In the homes highlighted in this article, there is only ONE way. There is no room for deviation, little room for personality or preference and questioning is virtually non-existent. The reason is that it is God’s way, and God only has one way, and if you do it any other way, that is not God’s way (it’s a catch 22). In many of these homes, sure, there is a lot of love, but no room for thinking outside the very strict parameters set by the head of household. As someone who grew up in a church where many of these families attended, I’ve seen it/felt it first hand.
In the majority of households in this country, Christian, liberal, agnostic, etc., the parents instill their values but in a way that encourages young minds to think, question and explore other ways and value systems. And if someone deviates, they are most often not deviating in a way that will send them to eternal hell and damnation.
In the end, though, children grow up to be adults and do have the right to choose (in this country) how they want to be. It may be harder to be themselves if them come from a quiver-like family, but if they feel it strongly enough, it is certainly possible.
Those are great points Brooke. I used to be all for the idea of a woman having it all..now I’m a working mom of two and reality hits hard. Although I appreciate the intentions of the feminist women that came before me, I have to say: I don’t feel very liberated. Sure, I have it all.. I have a full time job, I have two children, I have a full 3 hours w/ them at night, I have tremendous pressure to fix supper, do baths, read at bedtime, do homework , hug, kiss, doctor, play before 8:30pm, I have a full time house keeping gig, I have a husband who wants a prize for doing 12% of the housework, I have a full 15 minutes to talk and drink coffee w/ him in the morning. This can’t be what they were fighting for! I don’t feel free! I feel pressured and pulled and stretched too damn thin. There are no choices here. I’m afraid we’ve traded the expectations of fathers and husbands for the expectations of a politically correct society. Neither is what I hoped to live my life for.
I find myself constantly longing for a society when a woman could stay home w/out being judged..or looked down on. Why can’t these women choose to focus on one aspect of womanhood w/out being raked over the coals by other women? From where I’m sitting devoting my full attention to the kids and home for a while sounds like heaven. I thought feminism was about choices and the freedom to make them? Now the same pool of women who wave the F flag can’t tolerate women who choose to follow their religious convictions, or who choose to stay at home, or who choose to have another baby.
I find it funny that some people are pointing the finger at feminism for not tolerating women who choose to follow their religious convictions, choose to stay at home, or choose to have another baby, when many of my choices are being taken away precisely by those same religious people, such as access to birth control, EC, abortion, and gay marriage. I have yet to hear any good arguments regarding any of these issues that does not contain some reference to the Bible, sinning, and/or souls. I, as a feminist and an atheist, do not use state and federal laws to make anybody conform to my beliefs (or lack thereof). I do use state and federal laws to make sure others don’t infringe or push their beliefs on me or my children.
I came across this article
on Alternet and read with interest about the people and the teachings
which our family had followed for many years. I was kind of amazed that
someone on this site knew about this movement ~ so I posted a comment
on the article ~ and that’s how I got in touch with Kathryn Joyce.
As a woman who has lived this way of life, taught it to others through
my writing for home school books and magazines, I really want to just
encourage everyone who has been touched by the Quiverfull philosophy in
any way to read Joyce’s book.
I wish I could quote the whole thing for you ~ and then sit back and
read the comments which would sound something like, “OMFG!” and “Is
this stuff for real? ~ People actually believe this and live this
way?!!” Yes ~ it’s true. The thing is, those of us who followed (and
are still following) the Quiverfull / patriarchal lifestyle got into it
gradually ~ just a little at a time. For us, it started with
homeschooling which seemed pretty radical at the time.
When I talked to Kathryn Joyce over the phone as she was interviewing me for an article on Salon.com,
I told her I found it very affirming that for most of the book, she
simply sticks to quoting the movement leaders ~ often with no
commentary at all. “What that said to me,” I explained, “is that to
those who aren’t steeped in this particular worldview, the craziness of
it all is self-evident. There’s no need to say, ‘This is total crap!’
because anyone who isn’t already convinced can clearly see that it’s
truly insane to try and live this way.”
Something else I really appreciate about this book ~ Quiverfull puts
the whole movement on display all at once. The reason this is important
is that for most families, getting into this lifestyle is a
step-by-step process ~ a progression from “peculiar” to seriously
bizarre which takes place incrementally over a period of many years.
Twenty years ago, if I would have read Quiverfull, I believe seeing the
big picture of where we were headed would have shocked us enough to
cause me to take a good, hard look ~ no doubt, I’d have gone elsewhere
in my search for solutions to the everyday problems of family life.
No way could you interest me in a harsh, demanding lifestyle of lots of
babies, home schooling, home birth, home business, home church, no
children’s programs, no teenagers (Quiverfullers do not have
“teenagers”), no dating, parents choosing their children’s spouses,
husband making all the decisions and wife not daring to make the
slightest commitment without first obtaining her husband’s approval, no
TV, only G- and some PG-rated movies, and absolutely NO Harry Potter.
There is a great deal of heartache and drama in the story of how I came
to disavow that whole lifestyle along with the Christian religion and
the Bible upon which those family principles are based ~ but I guess
what it really comes down to is this:
My children were not thriving in the isolated and controlling
environment which had developed in our home as a result of following
the patriarchal family structure.
Here’s a link to the blog where I’ve been processing all of it: No Longer Quivering
Oops ~ the link to “No Longer Quivering” didn’t come through: http://2spb.blogspot.com/
Thatgirl595,I look forward to a society where a woman can decide not to marry or have kids and society doesnt belittle them or call them weird. This is what feminism speaks of CHOICE. They arent againt those who follow their beliefs if they have their own free will. Then the women dont give their children the same choices. Has mIchele given her gilrs other lifestyle otions? I dont see it happening any time soon.
When hubby and i first married, you can bet questions came about children Why is it anyones business if you reproduce or not? It like your expected to marry and have children. I doubt if many on here could live up to such strict standards. I agree keric
I dont call putting off mother hooduntil later ages extreme at all. It hardly comapres and not isnt selfish. Many of these women live in near poverty as the writer says. That is even worsse.
I dont call putting off mother hooduntil later ages extreme at all. It hardly compares and not selfish. Many of these women live in near poverty as the writer says. That is even worse.
I dont call putting off mother hooduntil later ages extreme at all. It hardly compares and not selfish. Many of these women live in near poverty as the writer says. That is even worse whne u cant feed and cliothes the ones you bring in the world but refuse to stop.
I dont call putting off mother hooduntil later ages extreme at all. It hardly compares and not selfish. Many of these women live in near poverty as the writer says. That is even worse when u cant feed and clothes the ones you bring in the world but refuse to stop.
Are Jim Bob and Michell Duggar Quiverfull? YES! Checkout this fantastic post!
http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/03/08/nlq-faq-are-jim-bob-michelle-duggar-quiverfull
Like most Americans (I think), I have conflicting feelings about this movement and the Duggars. On the one hand, everyone is entitled to follow their religious beliefs and these people seem to generally love their children and raise them well. In addition, I admire how committed these women are to their children and I do admire the self-sacrifice involved. On the other hand, it seems that in extreme religious movements (of any sort) it is always the woman who bears the brunt of the religious conviction. Even if the woman chooses this life, it is clearly oppressive to the woman involved. Oppression might work if the benevalent dictator is kind- like Bob Duggar- but it doesn’t work when he is indifferent or cruel.
Yeah, the Bible says “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth” and “Blessed is the man whose quiver is full”. But, the Quiverfull movement never seems to ask “what does ‘full’ mean? Might my ‘quiver’ be full after two children? Is the earth, perhaps, already ‘full’?” If the Quiverfull movement acknowledged that there was such a limit, and that each family’s limit might be different, and that there is such a thing as “too full” and it’s not a good thing, then perhaps I could respect them a little.
Anyone who is a true Christian believes that their body is a living sacrafice to God and a temple for His purpose. So, I find it interesting that in a life that one chooses and in a country supposedly seperating church and state, it threatens a woman’s right to choose her faith and follow it. So many people are overwhelmed by their children or believe they owe their children this or that. The many families that I have spoken with who have larger families but may not call themselves quiverfull, have a great understanding of love, faith, and people vs. materialism. I would rather surround my children with family than with meaningless things that would rob them of imagination and time. We are becoming so cynical and afraid of the actual Truth as written in the Bible. Men, women, children…this is not our life. Use your days to spread love, hope, forgiveness and the Gift of Jesus’ redemption! God bless all and I hope God will open your eyes. I am an educated, loving, former feminist ‘quiverfull’ mom! I am proud to serve my Lord through my famiy and I have had a career. I much prefer being home and watching my children grow and learn! Merry Christmas remember the Christ in this season and do not be robbed of the true many of the season.
as an added statement….My husband changes diapers, makes bottles, and supports me with our children. We are a team and I do not bear the sole role of child rearer. He is my soul mate, best friend, and the father to our children. You shouldn’t just assume that because “head of the house” is a saying used that that means no responsibility other than finacial falls on the father and husband. I would not be able to follow our convictions with a husband who was not as dedicated to our children as I am. He is an amazing example to other men with 1 or 2 children, because we have 5 soon 6 and he is not “above” helping or simply dumping all the duties on me. He does chores and even what some might consider “woman”s work lol so think before you judge or condemn. There is a broad range of followers in the quiverfull movement and we are not all extremists simply following our convictions.
Oh my gosh what ridiculous lies!!! WE are quiverfull, and this is just nonsense. Our children attend school in a building, with other children. our 3 daughters will be attending college to becoma a veteranarian, a teacher, and a nurse. Our son plans to be a preacher. Our youngest son is too young to say yet, but we will support his choices.
There is nothing wrong with following the scriptures , or wanting to be a good husband or wife. Just because you are different from someones belief system is no reason to exaggerate the truth.
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Gods Army For the Quiverfull movement a huge family isnt just a blessing its a way to change the political landscape.. He-he-he