Mom of 2 Aug 26, 12:49 AM

Wow, some truly harsh opinions out there regarding how to decide on the number of children one should have and how much we as parents should give them. I think some parents really caught up in the letters behind their childs name rather than the character of the child. Seriously, there is no "formula" for deciding how many kids one should have, it's a calling and desire. And, determining how you're going to pay for their college before you even pro-create is really too uptight and takes all the surprise out of the process. Sometimes life just happens without our planning any of it, and it can be a fun ride or a scary roller coaster, but there are no guarantees. I am blessed to have the 2 healthy children I have, and I have some funds being put aside for them and hope to help them all I can. But if this younger generation of Americans doesn't learn how to cope with some of the pressures and stresses early in their adult life while they are young and energetic enough to handle it, I am not sure they'll ever be able to handle the pressures of working, holding up a marriage, having kids, and then taking care of aging parents who may or may not have helped them 100% through college. Look around you, do you see the challenges we all might face in our old age if a younger generation that never learns how to "tough it out" is left holding the ball? Seriously, relax, every parent knows their child's limits and abilities and they do whatever they can to help them, and I feel certain this author will do what she can for them. Love counts a lot and it pays back a lot more.

Public not Private Aug 20, 11:38 AM

Part of the problem is the explosion of college costs, and the huge reductions in student aid. I went to Syracuse and came out with almost nothing in loans. My single mother could not afford to help me with very much at all. Now I've ruled out private schools for my own kids, because their are some great public schools, and it really comes down to making the most of wherever you are. Also, the private school costs are out of line with reality, and seem based upon the 'prestige-hype' that has taken hold of the middle class for the past 15 years. (Gotta have that BMW in the driveway...) I've been willing to save for the first and part of the second years of college for my kids, but the rest is up to them. Its their responsibility to finish it up and make it happen.

College Grad of 4 Aug 3, 1:16 PM

Perhaps the reason parents today feel responsible for their child's higher education is increasingly excessive tuition rates and the broken financial aid system. I graduated from college in 1994 with only one small loan because I worked my way through. It was difficult and exhausting but I am proud of my accomplishment. My parents weren't able to pay for my college and I didn't expect them to but I still remember vividly my extreme frustration at being told I didn't qualify for financial because they made too much money. It doesn't make sense for the financial aid system to consider one's child a dependent until the age of 24 when in all other aspects of society they are considered independent adults at age 18 or 21.

Terry Moore Aug 2, 8:31 PM

Interesting article for those single parents who have children ready for college.

Single Mom of 3 Aug 2, 6:05 PM

As a single Mom of 3 who works 2 jobs to help my kids graduate with minimal student loans, I think this article is a bit of a cop out. My oldest son was a National Merit Commended student, magna cum laude, etc. But since I "make too much" according to the wonderful FASFA , he had "0" financial need. He did get a good scholarship to a great private school, and the prepaid tuitition plan that I had sacrificially contributed to for 5 years helped a lot with the balance. But I still have paid out a lot of $ for the last 3 years. THis fall, my daughter starts college, and she also got a merit based scholarship that does not cover the full cost. I will work as much as I can to help foot her bill. She has worked hard all through high school, worked summers and babysit whenever needed and I think to tell her to buck up and go to a community college and get a job so Mom can take it easy is just that---a cop out! You do the best you can for your kids and a lot of your perspective is based on what was done to you. My parents helped me out , I studied as hard as I could and finished without debt and with a GPA of 3.6 in pharmcy. I did not (and could not) have done it working 20 hours a week. So....things have changed regarding college aid and I wouldn't pay to support a kid who was goofing off. But, to expect a hardworking kid in a rigorous curriculum to foot his own bill while you pay tribute to the Suzie Orman's and Dave Ramsey's---no way. (And I still contribute to a 401K as well as fund a prepaid tuition program for my 3rd child.) But...I totally understand that not all parents can afford to do it---it's just what you are willing and able to sacrifice.

AMDMathews Aug 2, 1:10 PM

Yeah, it makes sense, but check out the comment from CollegeGrad. That is the reality I see, and if Meagan Francis really wants to do what she says in her next to last paragraph of page one and be prepared to help her kid with that Harvard education or even a lesser one, she should be preparing for her kid's college expenses by saving. She will regret trying to take out loans later in life when her super-motivated kid wants to go to college as she describes. I do agree that even if you have been saving, if the kid is unmotivated, let him go and keep that savings for that world travel you want to do in your retirement. I believe in all that self-sufficiency talk she espouses, but that's no reason to be unprepared when year 12 rolls around. Save, prepare, and then have the freedom to give what you want, or not.

D'Ann Kamplain Christian Aug 2, 11:10 AM

I tend to agree with this article. Once the kids are 18, they are adults, they want to be treated that way and want to make their own decisions. If they expect for me to fund their college education with MY money or MY loans, they would have to understand that I would have to have a say in what they are doing, how they are living and what they are studying. I don't know about your kids, but mine don't want me to tell them what to do with their life. Working their way through college makes them appriciate it more and are more focused on what they are wanting to do with their life. We have 6 children with half of them over 18 and in college, they earned scholarships and have taking out loans. They are doing it their way and that is something I can respect.

bugbee Jul 10, 11:25 AM

I agree with you 100% College degree? Heck no. Trade school? Sure, I will help with books. The idea that a 4 year college is a "must" is part of this current secular fantasy which makes me *very* glad that my family is not part of it. There is nothing wrong with working as a farmer, mechanic or other real life skills. Most mainstream kids learn this after they already spent 100k for a minimum wage job. Good luck to you!

fuck you Apr 24, 1:03 AM

im 31 and not done with my bs in engineering i have like 50k or sumthing loans, i dont know and dont care. this world pisses me off cuz unless your a fucking fake fuck inhuman working machine, you get nowhere in this bs society so im not fuckin gonna do anything exept some dope and be in my own little perfect world

ClassyMomma Mar 26, 4:26 PM

Now $40,000 in debt for paying for our son's education, we realize what a huge mistake we made. He is arrogant, selfish, and expects us to continue to help him now that he's 22. Sure, he's going to law school this year, but we are SO done. Our other kids are going to have to pay the consequences of our mistakes, but that's life. We are SO sorry we did this and the over $300 a month payment is a royal pain that we will be dealing with for the rest of our lives. Don't do it. Don't get into this mess. We thought we were helping him. No, we were enabling him and now he is really going to have to learn the hard way. Neither my husband or I had help with our college funding. Why did we think we were doing our kid a favor to support him with him working less than 20 hours a week? Our bad.

drw7162 Mar 8, 11:38 AM

I 100% agree. My fiance and I have both said the same thing, we are not paying for our kids educations. We will support them and love them and if they make it through college and work hard we will then give them whatever financial help WE CHOOSE. This is not selfish. So many kids feel entitled to a 120,000 college education, its sickening. Make them take out loans and work hard so that you know they are going to appreciate what they get in life. How many times do you see a kid in college riding on mommy and daddy's dime partying it up and fluncking out of school? I come from a family of four kids and you know what? My mom and dad didnt pay for ANY of us to go to school. We all took out loans, which eight years later I am still paying back and proud to be doing so, because I did it on my own. I also worked 30 hours a week to help pay for rent and food, etc. This was not easy as I majored in Mechanical Engineering. If I can do it, anyone can. My fiance has taken out loans and paid for her schooling on her own. I know friends who take out second mortgages to let their kids go to college debt free while they will never be able to retire until they are 75. You do what you want, but don't you dare call me selfish for teaching my kids responsibility and hard work.

Responsible parent Feb 28, 3:17 PM

Meagan, Your article makes me sick! You sound like a selfish, ignorant, narcissistic person who lives in a fantasy world. 5 children!! Why? I feel sorry for your children. Their options will because severely limited because Mommy just had to have a "large" family for herself. Why don't write a follow-up article in 20 years and tell us all how well it all turned out for you. I am very grateful that my parents were responsible enough to wait to have children until they had both finished graduate school and settled into their careers before reproducing. I am the oldest of 3 children and my parents paid for both my undergraduate and graduate school degrees. I have 2 Ivy league degrees and a successful career.

Computer Geek Jan 15, 3:55 PM

There is absolutely nothing wrong with making your kids pay their own way. What's the old saying "That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger"? My parents paid $0. I worked 2 and three part time jobs (drove a school bus during the school year, worked at a miniature golf place during the summer and worked part time as a telephone operator at a hospital all year round in the evenings) while attending a mid-range Division III University. Was it tough? YES! Did it make me incredibly independent, self-reliant and a self-starter? YES! I didn't start until I was 21 after sowing my wild oats for a few years after high school (and discovered that I had the 'wants' and realized the only way I was going to solve that issue was to get off my butt and hit the books). 27 years into my profession in IT, I still love what I do - since I chose it - and I put the effort into the education on my own! Paid off my student loans 15 years ago. Have I felt deprived or shunned or anything else 'bad' because my parents didn't pay for my college? Not a single day. Their job was to get me to adulthood. What I did with my life after that moment was my issue. I don't understand the need of parents to not instill their children with something called self-reliance. This is what is missing from society (imho) these days. The sense of entitlement amongst the young is astonishing to me. It's not an attitude on my part of 'I did it so it must be right'. The rest of the animal kingdom has no qualms about teaching their young the basics of what they need to get by and then promptly kicking them out of the nest and watching as they either fall headlong to their demise or decide they want want to fly...

paurri Nov 9, 3:13 AM

I understand the burden putting a child through college must be, but my philosophy is that if you can't afford to put a child through college, then you should have it in the first place. I know that seems harsh, but I honestly think my life would be a lot easier if I didn't have to worry about putting myself through college.

I went to a pretty middle to upper class high school as one of the fewer lower class students in the district. I did well (Honors, National Honor Society) and got accepted a year early to a prestigous college a few hundred miles away from home. I was able to finance the first year of my education through grants, scholarships, and loans. But once I got to school, I was so terrified of losing my scholarship and not being able to get enough money together for the following school year that I suffered a mini-breakdown and ended up having to take time off. Now at eighteen, I'm stuck living with my mom working full time until I can get the nerve up to try to go back to school again.

I know that going out on your own and supporting yourself is supposed to just be a regular part of becoming an adult, but I can't help but to think that the kids who don't have to pay their way through college have a huge advantage.  I've been  financially supporting my mother and myself since I was 15 and I'm tired of having to struggle for everything. I've been through the sitting on milk crates, eating crappy (or sometimes no) food, and going to the public library for entertainment, and I'm sick of it. I'm ready for someone to take care of me. If I had someone to pay my way through college, my life would be perfect right now. It just infuriates me when people outright refuse to help their kids through college. If you have the opportunity to start your child's life out on the right foot, why wouldn't you?

College Grad Oct 27, 7:46 AM

I recently just graduated from college with a degree in Engineering.  I went to community college and transferred to a University.  Community Colleges are a great option.
My parents helped me as much as they could.  The same for my sisters.  At the end of the day I have 30 K in debt. 

I know my parents would of helped me more if they could.  I don't know what it is like from their side but here is what I can say.

First of all I would like to address financial aid.

The financial package you recieve is based on not only you, but your parents.  FASFA considers a student a dependent until the age of 24 years old or the student has a child of their own, has joined the military or is legally emancipated. It does not matter if you file independently on your taxes.  Parents of a dependent must fill out the FASFA for the student to qualify for anything. It does not matter if you cannot find your parents.  If you were a ward of the state you have to get the state to sign off on it.

I found out Grants are only given to students who have financial need. Many middle class parents like mine can pay the mortgage but don't have enough money to pay for tuition and other educational expenses on top of it.  So your left in the scholarship and loan category.   I would apply to over 25 scholarships a year but only got about $1,000 a year.  Most scholarships you must show financial need as defined by FASFA, or some other qualification.  I once went through the State of California Scholarship book, I was only qualified for about 20 out of thousands of scholarship.  Yes, I applied for more scholarships then I am qualified for. My boyfriend had it even worst, he is an uppper middle class white Caucasian male, who had a 3.8 gpa in engineering.  He only qualified for about 6 scholarships.  He received about a $1,000 a year also. 

Much of the dialog above said they qualified for grants and helped use it to pay for college.  I just wanted to clear up the fact that their is a good chance your children will not. 

Not all student federal loans are subsidized loans either.  If it is determined your parents can pay for your education all they will offer you is unsubsidized loans to only cover tuition.  This is what my boyfriend did to cover two years of tuition.  He had to fight his parents to get the information so he could apply to FASFA, just to get these loans.  I have known kids who "borrow" their parents tax returns or  others who sue their parents to get them to fill out the FASFA. 

Now about actual school.

I can take 16 engineering units and work an internship; but there were semesters were I was taking on so many units I could not work.  My parents helped me out. I can also say not taking one class  can set you back one year in your education.  In my case that was about 10K a year.  College curriculums are often set up with consecutive  classes only offered once a year. 

College for most people I know was a time to grow up and learn.  A person can struggle even if everything is paid for.  Personally my best and most productive semesters were the ones I was not working.  They also cost me the most money, because of interest on student loans.  My worst and most under-productive semesters I actually paid for.  Paying for a class did not make me do better or worst in it.  Learning to live life had a direct effect.  Learning to deal with a bad relationship had more of an effect then money.  Try to remember what it feels like to be 18.  I look at freshman and think "baby".  So do most upperclassman. 

College has changed.  I was asked why engineers have to take advance composition, history, and world music.  The answer, they are trying to make well rounded students.  Which means to graduate in four years you must take 18 semester units every semester and never change your major.  The average college graduate is looking at a 5 year degree.  Many argue making well rounded students is a waste of money.  There are many counter arguments.  Please call your local college for all the reasons.  They have many valid points.

I think it is important to instill your children with the knowledge of money and money management skills.  It is important for your children to work hard for something they want to achieve.  Its important for your children to have a good work ethic. If you pay for college their college you make their lives easier, but you can still give them these values.  I know many people whose parents paid for everything.  All they had to get was a part time job for fun money.  They either had these values walking into college or they didn't.  Same with  the people I know who paid for their own college.  You have those values waking in or you didn't.  Very few students have a meant learned those values while in college.  There are some, but very few.

reverse classist Oct 25, 2:17 PM

The future plumbers of America will not have to worry about much. Neither will the future electricians, mechanics, etc.

The people in my class who chose trades are MILES ahead of everyone else financially.

I DID IT SO CAN YOU Oct 20, 12:42 AM

HEY REALLIFE! did it ever occur to you that you could have chosen a easier path. my husband and i paid for our school and worked full time.  it is hard. you chose to be a doctor, what do you expect.... you could have chose another career. hopefully your career will pay off your loans. but I went to school with kids who were funded by government or parents, and their character level was below par. they need to work for what they want. it is simple. . We went to Jr. college as much as we could to apply to business...went on to a university, and it took us 5 years. try taking 14 units, working 30 hrs at a bank, and being pregnant with twins. I just did it.  then my husband continued to study and get his CPA licence...miserable with newborn twins, but we were blessed to have the opportunity and not have to leach off of our parents. My parents were millionaires at one time. I chose to get married at 18, they said, "pay for your own college" . and i did. not a big deal. being spoiled is not going to benefit you in any way.

reallife Oct 12, 3:27 PM

If this woman thinks she gave up so much for her children then why did she have them? She certainly wasn't doing them any favors!! You should really consider your ability to provide for a child BEFORE YOU HAVE FIVE OF THEM. As someone who got through college with no help from her parents I can tell you that it's really really hard. I did it. Now I'm a Doctor, but it took longer than it should have and I didn't get a good nights sleep for 8 years. I really don't know how my brain functioned at all. Working full-time while being a full-time student and trying to have something that resembles a social life is not easy. My grades were no-where near where they should have been and everything was always half assed, because I was busy working. I still have loans, I took out everything I could, but factor in living expenses and tuition for eight years and you are easily over the limit on what you are allowed to borrow from the federal student loan programs. The worst part is that had my parents planned for the future before I was born, or even after, then they would have been able to contribute to make things easier. Advising parents to not to plan for their children's future is irresponsible. When it comes time for my children to go to college you can be sure I will be footing the bill. The extra opportunities they will have because of it will be well worth any price I pay.

Zulema Sep 20, 4:54 AM

I would not be surprised if a lot of parents proclaiming that their offspring will need to man it up and work for themselves send the little "money-grabbers" to private schools so they won't have to have the same public-school education as the future plumbers and beauticians of America.

mah Sep 20, 4:42 AM

If you can't afford college for your kids, I totally understand that. But it seems completely unfair to have (or have the chance to have) the money to send your child to college and to not.

Maybe it's because I'm from a culture that values education over anything else, but it seems a tragedy to deny help for your own offspring, who you (hopefully) willingly decided to have and accepted the consequences for, with something that is becoming more essential but harder to achieve.

And you think, if you are making a comfortable enough income to provide at least some of your child's college education (and spend time writing for Babble), that your child is going to (or should) meet the requirements for financial aid? Give me a break. That money should be going to the people who are in the position you were in in college: on their own, parents not able to afford to pay

And a job that a teenager will get hired for is not going to pay for a college education. The highly qualified older people who graduated from college but now cannot find jobs because of the economy are taking the well-paying jobs you have fond memories of performing in high school and college.

What makes more sense to me is having your child work during high school and college to pay for their private items, like clothes, books, i-pods, pencils, phones, whatever. When they start college, have them pay for board and food. Even some of the actual tuition seems entirely reasonable to me.

Also, why not encourage your child to volunteer with some of the time they might have to spend working otherwise? Looks great on a college (or job) application, builds good morals, and just a wonderful thing to do.

I think that in portions, you might have a good idea, but there are better ways to build morals and a good work ethic than just leaving your kid on their own in an amazingly difficult situation.

Parker Aug 27, 6:38 PM

My kids know that I will not pay for their education either. If they want it bad enough they will work for it and apply for scholarships or get a job. I offer them time, connections and encouragement but there is a reason I went through school and started a career and it wasn't so that I can pour it all down the drain with absurd tuition costs. Especially for an undergraduate degree. There is very little you learn in those first fours years that require an institution as expensive as Harvard. Ill keep my hard earned 50K a year! College isn't all weve made it into. I think Americans should take a little wisdom from some South American countries where Primary school education is only available to those students who work hard and score high. We need to set aside our pride. If your child is unmotivated or just not smart then college might NOT be for them. Get over it. There was a time when a higher education was only available to those who wanted to learn and truly had a future in an academic field. Nowadays, we want to send ALL kids to college--half of which spend the first year year partying and the second flunking out. Get a job. We need working people in America. All these lousy generic degrees wont get you anywhere. The best thing you can do in college is make good connections. Don't get a useless degree in Business or Psychology!!!! Everyone has one, promise! I own my own business and Id take a kid who never stepped foot in a university but knows the trade, or someone referred to me by another business contact over a college grad with a 10 page resume any day. This is America. The dream for young people used to be going off and making their own way in the world. People need to stop letting their kids goof around for so long. Give the youngsters some responsibility! Great article! End of Speech.

happy44 Aug 27, 2:39 AM

I am the second child of seven.  I was the first in my family to go to and graduate from college, but I was not the last to do so.  My parents helped in the ways they were able, which was very very little financially but always emotionally.  I met my husband at the end of my college time, he was finishing law school.  Neither of our parents paid for our college and we worked, got grants, and took out loans.  Fifteen years past college we have also struggled to put food on the table, driven 10 year old cars, and saved and then had to use that savings.  A college degree is no more a promise of success than our own parents success is a marker of how well we will do. 

My husband's parents paid a grand total of $1000 his first semester of undergrad and nothing for the next 7 years.  They paid the entire tuition, living expenses and books of a private college for his sister 4 years younger.   They could have easily paid for both children without a hiccup.  We have always been grateful that we both worked our way through school.  It has been a mark of personal pride to know that we accomplished it on our own.

We are now the parents of 4 children.  One who is entering his second year of college.  He is still 17, yes he started a year early.  The first year he lived with us and we continued to support him as we always had.  Since he was small we'd told him we had no intention of ever covering his entire education and he would need to be working.  As with many others I knew so many people who had their education paid for and just didn't take it as seriously as they otherwise should have.  Before our son's second year of school started we had to move 1400 miles away from his school.  Instead of moving with us this son lined up all his housing, job, and funds to cover books and tuition.  I paid a grand total of $22 for his class fees a month ago.  When I told him how I really would like to do what we can he melted my heart by saying "mom, I'm a big boy now, I *want* to do this on my own"  He wants to be a grown up, he doesn't want me to take over and keep him receiving all the time.  I am thrilled that I raised a young man who wants to be able to work and doesn't want me to send money.  All he wants from me is to be mom, to talk to him, lift his spirits and be the biggest cheerleader I can be.  While he is 17 for some of the rest of the year (fall birthday) this coming year we will not be claiming him on our taxes, he is a big kid now, he wants to support himself and we will honor that by allowing him the chance to fly *and* fall.  When he has problems, and I expect he will, we will do all within our power to help in the way that will best assist him which may or may not be financial. 

The decision to cover college expenses for our children was made before we had even one child.  The decision to have more children was made not based on finances but the ability to love and care for our children.  There are as many theories on the best raising of children as their are families.  I happen to agree with the author in this respect.  Allowing a child to grow into an adult and act as an adult and experience consequences as an adult does not make one a unfeeling parent nor a selfish one.  It appears to me to be far more selfish to limit the amount of children solely to how much you can buy.  However, maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's a great thing that a parent like this only have a child or two.  I'd much prefer my parents who loved us and didn't take our education personally to one who felt that it reflected on their parenting to be able to tell their friends how much money they shelled out to the adults they hadn't finished raising yet.

BIYATCH Aug 23, 12:44 PM

You are a peice of shit mother

d smith Aug 22, 12:38 PM

Yeah to all the parents who finally understand that children are being ruined because everything is always given to them for free.  Nowadays one of the biggest problems facing the youth is that they have never had to earn anything, from privilege to costlier things such as an adult education. The world is flooded with youth that feel the world owes them everything.  They have no morals no work ethic no motivation.  And let me tell you parents who are giving their children everything, they are cheating their way through their free education, because you have taught them nothing except that the world revolves around them and they are entitled to everything they can grasp.  If a child or adult for that matter has to work for something that something is so much more precious to them due to the fact that they have earned it.  Moral character and ethical behavior are formed by hard work and determination, not by giving a child it's every desire and whim.  Anyone who has had to work with the youth of today know exactly what I am talking of.
Growing up in the 60's as one of 6 children, we always knew that everything was a privledge not a right.  From the clothes on our backs to the food on our plates to the possessions we had, all were privilege that were earned by good behavior, respect and hard work. Guess what? Because of that, my parents are proud to say that they raised 6 children who all are good decent honest hardworking people.  Most of the my siblings have pursued college from 2 year degrees all the way up to PHD and multiple degrees, all by their own hard work and determination.  I never hear one gripe that mom and dad didn't foot their bill for schooling.  I say bravo to the author of this article, she will be so proud of her children's accomplishments and they will be better people for it.

ACinDC Aug 10, 6:44 PM

Wow, I am so thankful I have parents like mine, and not like the one who wrote this (who apparently decided not to spring for orthodontia either, nice). My parents -- one of whom put herself through med school -- have hopes that their children won't sacrifice the dream of home ownership because of being saddled with student loan debt. They have been pushed to the brink financially to see us through school.

There was never any question my brother, sister and I were going to college, and when I went off, I was not particularly motivated and was a poor high school student. But once I got to school, everything changed. I graduated near the top of my class, served as the editor in chief of our college paper and led by example for my younger siblings.

Now I'm pursuing my career as a journalist, which means it may be awhile before I own that house. But someday I will, because I won't be spending $80,000 to repay loan debt. And as I look at my friends struggling to balance rent, cost of living, a car payment and student loan payments, I thank my lucky stars again and again. I don't know what my future holds, but I do know I'll do everything I can to help my kid(s) through school when I get to that point, like my parents did. And I won't sacrifice that idea by having five of them either, because even at 25 I know I'll probably never be able to afford that.

Foresight -- it's a beautiful thing. As is birth control and dentistry.