Circumcision Pros and Cons? The arguments are silly all around
and why the arguments on both sides of the debate are overblown
After our first son was born, following discussions with my wife about whether or not we should have him circumcised, I called my wife’s ex-boyfriend to get his opinion on the matter. My wife seemed to have it on good authority that he had not been circumcised, and I wanted to make sure everything worked well. “Any hygiene issues? Mechanical problems? Do you have a view on the circumcision issue?” He did indeed have a view. Circumcision, he said, was a barbaric American practice (he is British), and we should do everything in our power to prevent that scalpel from touching our son.
We decided not to have our son circumcised, and now, six years later, we have three happy, gamboling, uncircumcised sons. I haven’t lost a wink of sleep over the decision, nor would I have, had we decided to circumcise our sons. The conventional arguments on both sides of the debate are rather silly, in my opinion. But silly arguments, when widespread, are worth considering (and I’d better state here and now, before the rabid commenters on both sides of this debate unsheathe their pens, that I am not a doctor, and this is not a piece of medical advice – this is an account of one man’s experience, one man’s opinion, delivered both for any amusement and utility it may provide).
“I think my husband only wants to have our son circumcised because that’s just what feels normal to him,” wrote Stevee Curtis in Should I Have My Baby Boy Circumcised?
“I’ve witnessed circumcision at a bris and it didn’t look like torture to me,” wrote Paula Bernstein in Jewish Response to Proposed Circumcision Ban.
Let’s address the two most common arguments for not circumcising: (1) the pain is traumatizing, and (2) the operation decreases sexual sensation. Though I don’t remember my circumcision, I am sure it was painful. My recollection of my birth is rather foggy, but I am sure it was painful as well. Those were, sadly, not the only painful experiences in my life. We would all like our children to experience as little pain as possible. That’s a good thing, but it does not follow that every experience of pain traumatizes them for life. The idea that some 100 million American men are traumatized because they were circumcised strikes me as a little bit fatuous. Our son broke his arm last summer, and it was excrutiatingly painful for him – not for a few minutes but for many hours. I would have done anything to have prevented that from happening. But did it traumatize him? Make him a damaged human being? Not in the least. Having said that, if you are going to circumcise your son, please use anesthesia. Your son, and all other males who hear about the proceedings, will appreciate it.
How about decreased sexual sensation, isn’t that a valid concern? My view is that the last thing my sons need is more sexual sensation than their father experienced. If our decision not to circumcise our sons has that effect, I apologize in advance. The world suffers in many ways from the outsized sexual appetites of men. Men suffer from their own outsized sexual appetites. Indeed, a little less sexual pleasure for men might not be such a terrible thing for all involved.
And frankly, humor aside, I don’t buy the core argument. Do circumcised men take longer to reach orgasm? I have heard no anecdotal evidence of this; on the contrary, if you polled the wives of circumcised American men, I suspect you would hear that they wouldn’t mind if the process took a little longer. Both condoms and desensitizing creams have the effect of delaying orgasm in men because they reduce sexual sensation and are often purchased with that objective in mind.
On the other side of the ledger, the hygiene and spread of disease argument also strikes me as rather weak. The studies cited are in third-world countries with less fastidious hygiene practices and higher incidences of disease. In the United States, in the 21st century, I don’t think this is a major factor. The “embarrassed in the locker room” argument also falls flat; the percentage of newborns circumcised in the US fell from 63% in 1994 to 32% in 2006 (if anything, that argument runs in the other direction).
But why, exactly, did we decide not to circumcise? For my wife, it was about sparing our little bambinos pain. For me, at the end of the day, it was the Hippocratic Oath thing: better not to conduct surgery unless it’s very clearly necessary. Circumcision, after all, is elective cosmetic surgery. People may talk about other factors, but I think the decision is most commonly made for cosmetic reasons (because it’s more familiar), and this does not seem adequate. Having said that, I do think it’s objectively true that when our boys are running around in sprinklers in the summertime with friends who are circumcised, the circumcised penis is a little bit cuter. There is something sunny and optimistic – sunny side up, if you will – about the mushroom top, reminiscent of a Volkswagen bug rather than a Snuffleupagus.
On the other hand, the foreskin is cool technology; it’s neat that the penis naturally evolved with a turtleneck. It would prevent chafing when doing a lot of walking, I’d imagine. And it’s not just any old turtleneck – it comes with glands that secrete a kind of lubricant, which is part of why Americans started circumcising en masse: to make it more difficult for boys to masturbate. In other words, foreskin is a technological innovation that has some benefits.
So in the end, I come down on the side of my wife’s charming, British, uncircumsized ex-boyfriend: put away the scalpel. All things considered, better not to mess with it. But if you do choose to trim the turtleneck, ignore the slings and arrows of foreskin fanatics and don’t give it another thought.
With religious practice aside (Which is a whole ‘nother bucket of bricks) I still don’t get why people decide to cut off a part of their child’s body. How about an earlobe – it’s just a piece of skin… why don’t we cut that off? Good point about the Hippocratic Oath – if it ain’t broke, don’t tinker with it.
Thanks for your lovely article. So nice to hear from a parent that made a decision without feeling the need to condemn everyone else’s. A little humor adds a nice touch to what can become a painfully self-righteous debate.
Rachel – if it’s “just a piece of skin” why do you care so much what other people do? Seriously, why do people care?
Not having a foreskin has not hurt the sexual performance or satisfaction of any of the men I’ve been with, everyone is just fine. In fact, the one uncircumcised man I was with was the only one with a problem. He could not retract the skin after he was erect, causing painful stretching and tearing. He had to wait for the erection to subside, then retract the skin first before trying again.
Bottom line – it’s a stupid debate, except to the extent that there are undercurrents of religious persecution and hysteria.
I can’t believe you called you’re wife’s ex. My son is circumcised and he’s fine. He doesn’t remember a thing. It was a two minute procedure. Either way, good luck to everyone on making your decision.
I have no comments to make about the circumcision part of your article. Which I do realize is the bulk of your article but my reasoning is because I don’t discuss my children’s genitalia with strangers. Even though I’m anonymous I find putting my child’s genitals up for discussion is a blatant violation of their privacy and trust. Anyways, I do want to say something about the hippocratic oath because I see it mentioned twice and everytime I see it mentioned in different articles it is always misrepresented. In the original oath Doctors declared to never do surgery. Circumcision aside…need open heart surgey? Appendectomy? Hernia Repair? etc…well any surgery goes against the oath. In this same oath physicians also declared to never provide women abortions. So I guess by todays standards women who suffer from ectopic pregnancies would be SOL if we were to hold physicians strictly to the oath. Anyways, the oath today is more seen as a ceromonial rite of passage at the end of medical school and some schools today don’t even include it in their graduation ceremony for their physicians. The American Medical Association today does have a code of ethics but they do not promote or espouse a hippocratic oath. http://www.imagerynet.com/hippo.ama.html
There is a modern version of the hippocratic oath and the parts about never doing surgery has been removed. And there is no part in the modern oath where they state “If it aint broke, don’t fix it.” I guess you guys want a source so here ya go. http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=20909
Sorry to go on a tangent. This is just a pet peeve of mine.
This is one of my favorite Babble articles ever. Very pragmatic, without the panic you often see in these types of articles. I am pregnant with my third boy. The first two are circumcised and I’m strongly considering not doing it again. I wish I had never started, but now I’m wondering how boy #3 will feel about being different than his dad and two older brothers.
And I LOVE that you called your wife’s ex-lover. Awesome.
Don’t cut the baby. Watch this video of a baby being genitally cut first: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=013PdUzvWpo Do you hear his screams and horrible pain? No medical organization in the world recommends RIC of males and females.
For more info: wwww.wholenetwork.org keep the baby whole as he was born.
Thank you for the kind words, Miss Frazzled, Katelet and friends. I do agree that the “non-judgmental opinion piece” should be a more common genre. J, I was not aware of the fact that the hippocratic oath was originally a declaration not to conduct surgery. Still, it seems that the spirit of it is wise and relevant, no? Don’t meddle with things you might make worse without good reason, whether or not foreskin is involved.
“But did it traumatize him? Make him a damaged human being?”
You have to consider the fact that an accidental injury isn’t even on the same scale as being tied down against your will while part of your penis is being sliced off. This can be horribly traumatic for a child. The act causes all sorts of crazy things to go on with the baby’s cortisol levels, blood pressure, heart rate, and all of this is when the baby is brand new – wanting, *needing* to bond with mommy. And he is frightened. And he’s crying for help. But no one is heeding his anguished screams. And his mother isn’t there to rescue him. I’d imagine this can definitely have a profoundly negative effect for some people in the mother/child relationship arena – at least on a subconscious level. That trust has been broken, and I’ve little doubt the infant feels a certain level of betrayal, even though he might not understand what it means.
“Indeed, a little less sexual pleasure for men might not be such a terrible thing for all involved.”
This is hardly a valid excuse for tampering with nature. The removal of foreskin forever damages the child in that he will never be able to have the full functionality of his genitalia, as nature intended. Sure, it may get the basic job done, but something is still missing that didn’t need to be. Lack of foreskin can have a negative effect on the pleasure of the man’s partner as well. Google ‘sex as nature intended’ (or something like that); don’t be put off by the sales-pitch look to the website. There’s a wealth of information there about the natural function and importance of foreskin (not only for the man’s pleasure, but also a woman’s).
CynDaVaz – whoa. Get a grip.
Hey, Rufus! great piece.
One bit of info that is not in your piece that should be mentioned is the possibility of the loss of elasticity in the foreskin among older men, which results in the inability to retract it fully, often requiring circumcision. I’m not suggesting this as a reason for infant circumcision just as another piece of information.
This article is miles above all the other circumcision articles I’ve read on Babble. We’re expecting our first son in a few months (only girls up till now) so the circumcision conversation is alive and well in our house but to this point the only thing we’re both convinced of is that the big angry arguements on both sides are stupid. Thank you.
Nicely written. Non-judgy. Too bad the comments can’t keep pace with your civility.
Circumcision is violent disfiguring child rape. It is far more severe than the more common forms of female genital cutting.
Growing weary of this whole lineof psychobabble. For many,it’s part of our religion. No one is asking you to agree, but just as we don’t judge you- make your decision and keep your own judgments to yourself.
The practice got popular in Victorian times, precisely because they thought it would decrease sexual episodes among boys. It became an issue of conformity in the 1950s and 1960s in America — the popular excuse was that parents didn’t want their boys to look different in the locker room. In the 1970s and 1980s, a backlash developed, and I think there is a valid argument that someone slicing off part of your body is different when you’re a few days old than when you’re old enough to break your arm, as your son did. Your son could contextualize the experience. A baby boy being circumcised just sees it as being restrained and tortured, and it is easy to see where that experience might lead to a more distrustful, less emotionally open class of men. If the boys keep the foreskin clean, they should be fine. I’ve had clients come to me asking about reconstructing a foreskin, and others who want to get an adult circumcision, and reasons seem to be all over the map, but it seems a much better time to decide, i.e., when you’re an adult. I notice the scar tissue from my circumcision has grown decreasingly sensitive as I’ve gotten older, so it’s certainly something I’d wished I’d had a choice about.
Anonymous, it seems to me that it would be much worse to be restrained and submitted to pain as an older child when you fully understand what is being done to you — I am certainly glad that I was circumcised as a newborn rather than as an older child. Of course much better to have this experience today with widely available local anesthesia. My impression, when I read a lot of the comments one tends to see in response to circumcision pieces, is that a portion of the people with the strongest opinions are in fact wrestling with other issues. There are a thousand reasons that one can feel mistreated in life or as if one is suffering from a loss of something. For me it’s often my keys or my wallet, not once to date my foreskin. I am going to guess that statistically the percentage of circumcised men who have ever given the matter a second thought, much less joined support groups for the circumcised, is extremely extremely small. And yet this collection of people dominates a lot of the conversation about the matter, which does everyone — particularly parents trying to figure out what to do — a real disservice. As I made clear in the article above, my wife and I decided not to circumcise our kids, and in balance I come out on this side of the argument, but there are, frankly, completely rational arguments on both sides. There is no conspiracy. Unless you really really want there to be one, I guess.
I actually really like this article. But I want to ask you a question about this part of it:
“On the other side of the ledger, the hygiene and spread of disease argument also strikes me as rather weak. The studies cited are in third-world countries with less fastidious hygiene practices and higher incidences of disease. In the United States, in the 21st century, I dont think this is a major factor.”
I wonder if you honestly think that the people who are suffering from HIV, HPV and herpes – in other countries or in THIS one – are suffering from these diseases because they don’t wash well enough.
I am super impressed that you talked to your wife’s ex boyfriend about circumcision. I couldn’t get my husband to talk to my exes about *anything*, let alone have conversations about their penises.
I have two sons who were circumcised and they are happy and healthy. Everyone to thier own choices. Either way the child will grow up happy and healthy.
You, are my new favorite writer. Thank you, thank you for writing…geez, it is such a barbaric practice and sheeple refuse to change/gain knowledge! GREAT post! Please think before you cut your perfect baby boy!
Just so the people commenting know…circumcision is BIG, BIG business! It an absolute lie that men are “cleaner” cut. Please do some research on it…go ahead watch it done, see if you want to subject your baby to that!
I agree with you article in that it is totally a personal decision and arguments on both sides are ridiculous. My only argument is that your stats seem a little off. According to the NY Times 80% of American men are circumcised. I don’t know a single male who is not circumcised.
As a mother, a Christian, and a medical professional, I opted for circumcision of my son. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the root of circumcision, I refer you to the Holy Bible. God Himself instructed that all boys be circumcisied on the eighth day. It is also a matter of hygiene. During my nursing days, I had the opportunity to have a patient, male, age 38, who chose to have this done. I did ask why, after so many years. He told me of repeated urinary tract infections, passing infections to his wife, and other instances that had contributed to his decision. He ended with the most important reason of all. God had ordained circumcision to be performed.
Naturally, doctors do charge for this to be done. They also charge for well baby check ups, are we going to deny our children these, because of the expense? I think not. The longer circumcision is delayed, the more painful they become, and the greater the risk of infection. It also takes longer to heal. It is much easier on the baby, who can have the procedure performed while awake, than it was on the grown man, who had to undergo general anesthesia. Of course it was easier on his mother, since she did not have to do the cleaning of the wound. If you do choose not to have your child circumcised, please take special care when bathing, as I have also seen infants brought in with the foreskin growing to the penis due to improper hygiene. There are many factors to consider when this decision is made. PLEASE discuss it thoroughly with your physician and your spiritual counselor before committing either way.
Ava, sorry your argument that a 38 year old man required a circumcision is completely ridiculous. Its also so medical. lets do a c/s because the baby MIGHT be big and just MIGHT be stuck, causing all sorts of other problems. If a 38 year old man wants to get cut, GO FOR IT. I could’t care less. but I AM not, and did not make the choice for my son or his in utero brother. I live in Japan and when describing infant circumcision to her she was SHOCKED, genuinely that we do that to BABIES. When looking at it through another cultural lens its pretty sobering.
Anon, thanks for your comment below. You make a good point, I should not presume to know about bathing practices in regions where there has been a correlation between circumcision and spread of disease. My assumption was that places where there is no running water would likely have less regular bathing, but I don’t know that to be true — it was not meant to be a value judgment. Keri, on the subject of statistics around circumcision, I just looked it up again on wikipedia, and it appears that there is some conflicting data out there. Most reports, however, show that there has been a considerable decline in the incidence of circumcision in the US. It’s absolutely true that the vast majority of adult American males are circumcised — indeed, everyone in my highschool was circumcised. But it’s also true that the attitudes of doctors and nurses have changed dramatically in the last 30 years. My parents were never asked whether they wanted us circumcised, it happened automatically back in the day. At New York Presbyterian, where our children were born — a pretty fancy hospital, as they go — all the doctors and nurses we encountered advised us not to circumcise our boys, and the anecdotal feedback was that the rate was about 50/50. My impression is that there has been a dramatic change in favor of not circumcising, and this trend is likely to continue in future decades. But as you know, I think it’s silly to be messianic about it.
I get very tired of arguments that justify certain parenting decisions by claiming that “He turned out ok.” People claim that their choice to formula feed, circumcise, sleep train, whatever, is ok because their kid “turned out ok.” I don’t see parenting as having a definable outcome. Sure, we should look to the future, but that should be secondary to looking at the present. Look at an infant boy. He has no ability to intellectually comprehend what is being done to his body during a circumcision. He has no ability to communicate effectively about his level of pain or to self medicate. That is enough reason not to subject him to this procedure. Sure, as an adult, he may not be traumatized, but it’s not just about who he’ll be as an adult. It’s about who he is right now. I don’t think that this is a stupid debate. Some parents might not care, but I certainly think that this is something worth trying to convince others not to do.
This is the only article I have read regarding circumcision that does not have anti-Semitic undertones. Thank you!
My whole stance is that we don’t cut the genitals of our daughters, so we shouldn’t cut the genitals of our sons. If female circumcision is so bad, male circumcision should be too.
I do have to say, though, that formula feeding and sleep training are on no way on the same level of discussion as circumcision. Formula and sleep training don’t carry the risk of severe deformity and death that circumcision does, so have a bit of perspective Natalie.
Also, being anti-circumcision doesn’t mean someone is anti-Semitic.
We judge animal abuse by the measurable amount of cortisol (stress hormone) in their blood. Baby boys cortisol rises through the roof during circumcision and is measurably high for 6 months after the assault. Its time to offer children the same protection we give animals.
If an adult were strapped down without consent and part of their genital organ cut off this would be a clear case of aggravated sexual assault. Its time to start protecting infants and children from sexual assault the same way we protect adults.
For me it boils down to two things 1)Do you trust parents to make good decisions (yes, I do) and 2)Does a man’s penis define him (no, I don’t believe it does).
But here’s the thing. One side of this discussion is not really interested in discussing anything. One side of this discussion is extremely intolerant.
Have you received threats yet? If you don’t take the *right* side or even worse argue that this is something that should not be politicized you will not be tolerated.
I think there are lots of reasonable arguments against circumcision made by very reasonable people but somehow this has ceased to be about *convincing* people to do one thing or the other and has become about forcing them not to circumcise. That is why, regardless of choices we made as a family, I could never support any of these initiatives to ban circumcision. They make my blood run cold for reasons that have nothing to do with circumcision and everything to do with what kind of society I want to live in.
James – that is not actually how we judge animal abuse. Your comment is also ridiculous because we castrate and kill male animals regularly in horrible ways with no anaesthetic (among other abuses – hey, we put live male chicks in grinders in this country). Intent and methods are important – killing a cow for fun might be animal abuse, while killing it for meat is sanctioned. Just because you deem circumcision to be abusive doesn’t make it so, where parents are trying to make a decision about what is right for their child and his sexual health. At the end of the day, all of these radical statements about torture and abuse are traumatizing – you’re psychologically bullying people on purpose, which makes you worse than anyone you disagree with.
In the US, right now, 1 in 5 women will need a total hysterectomy after 50, caused from vaginal erosion, caused from sex with a calloused glans from a circumcised man. That’s what your wife has to look forward to, unles you were circumcised badly and develope e. d.
What a great article! I love it.
Parents considering infant circumcision should REALLY check out Circumcision Decision-Maker. It takes you through each of your reasons for wanting circumcision one at a time and then gives you some expert opinion. It also has a lot of information on penis anatomy, how the foreskin develops, circumcision, and care of the intact penis including washing instructions.
http://circumcisiondecisionmaker.com
Natalie — I totally agree that the “we turned out ok” argument is specious … it can be used to justify just about any parenting decision. Most people of my (our?) generation didn’t wear seatbelts or bicycle helmets, most of us turned out ok, and most of us believe in using seatbelts and bicycle helmets for our own children. It is an illogical and all too common argument. But I don’t understand the “traumatizing pain” argument in the era of local anesthesia – do you really think local anesthesia doesn’t work? Natural birth itself appears to be a pretty painful experience for both mother and child — should we advocate c-sections because babies may experience less pain when delivered more quickly? Or is this more about a desire to do things the “natural” way? It’s not consistent to believe in minimizing pain and trying to do everything naturally … arguably human beings have never experienced less pain in the history of the world than we do today, and that’s because we have chosen to interfere with nature. As you now I think there are good arguments to not circumcise, but the pain argument seems like a stretch to me if best practices are used.
@Rufus Griscom – I am talking about the pain, but I’m also talking about the overall experience. If an infant boy needed an emergency surgery for some reason, then that’s differnt. But as this is an entirely cosmetic procedure, I don’t think it’s fair to conduct it on a child who doesn’t have the tools to cope with it the way an adult or even an older child could. We can’t know for sure how much it hurts, even with anesthesia, or how long it hurts or is uncomfortable, because he can’t tell us. Furthermore, he has no understanding of what’s happening, why it’s happening and who is doing this to him. This, I think, goes against what our initial obligation to our infants is: to teach them that they can trust us. You keep coming back to natural child birth, but I don’t think that that analogy holds up. For starters, both babies and mothers are designed to go through this experience. Secondly, the pain in labor is purposful – it signals us as to what’s happening. Also, as an adult, I can communicate about my needs in labor and find ways of reducing pain, even without an epidural. I can say that a certain position isn’t working for me, let’s try something else, I can move myself into a tub or walk around. And if it’s still painful, at least I can receive emotional support from my partner. Babies were never designed to be circumcised, they were designed to travel through the birth canal. When I look at an infant, I can’t see any reason to scare or hurt them if I don’t have to.
I don’t believe there is a right or wrong decision. It is up to the parents. Sad there are parents who don’t hear one another, or haven’t discussed it before the birth. We chose to have my son and if I were to have another we would make the same choice. I find it odd when parents choose to have one son done and then not the other. It was quick, my cry baby son believe it or not didn’t cry and he healed quickly. My husband is. My father who wasn’t had to be at the age of 76, 2 other male friends one at 15 and the other at 23 also had to be circumcised later in life – not fun for them. I didn’t do it based on changing room banter, the fact that I prefer a cut to an uncut. We made the decision before his birth, before we even knew what we were having. I am really relieved after what my Dad recently went through and then hearing stories from our male friends. Who by the way when they asked us if had our son snipped were really happy about the decision that we made.
Oh for those who don’t please educate yourselves on not retracting your sons foreskin – I hear too many stories of oh I will just clean him really well, and when reminded not to retract they didn’t have a clue!
@Natalie — points well taken, but I think at some point we verge onto the “naturalistic fallacy” here — the false belief that all things natural are good. Human childbirth is dramatically more traumatic and life threatening for both mother and baby for humans than for most other species because we evolved to have these large brains that are extremely difficult to get through the birth canal. It’s painful not necessarily because “that’s what nature intended” but rather because it’s what was necessary to get big heads out of bodies. It’s natural to have your teeth rot in your gums, but we instead chose to brush them and go through painful and teenage-kiss-impeding orthodontistry. We do lots of stuff that is not natural and thereby improve upon the human condition. Having said that, I agree with your “don’t mess with it unless there is a good reason” argument — the case for circumcision is not strong enough to warrant surgery, in my humble opinion.
I’m British so the circumcision debate was never raised when my son was born. None of the male members of my family – brothers, dad, husband etc are circumcised and no other man I’ve ever been ‘involved’ with was. I have never heard of any problems caused by this. In the UK it is far rarer to be circumcised and we don’t have a nation of men with smelly uncomfortable penises. I too am most impressed by the good relationship Alisa has with her ex – so refreshing!
We didn’t circumcise my son and I haven’t regretted it one bit. I did all the same various research and came down to the same thing its a strange American practice (and a religious Jewish one) and there’s really no REAL reason to do it. I called upon my ex-boyfriend whom I knew wasn’t circumcised and asked his thoughts. He said he’s never noticed it, no one has teased him, no girl has mentioned it he’s lived a perfectly fine un-circumcised life.
That was all the information I needed.
I do however find it strange that my co-worker doesn’t vaccinate but she did circumcise. Seems like you wouldn’t have an unnecessary cosmetic surgery if you’re unwilling to take a slight chance of illness from a vaccination. Oh well.
@Rufus Griscom – Are you telling me that it doesn’t hurt when a cow gives birth to a giant calf?
No one ever accused cows of having giant brains. Funny that there’s still so much to debate, even when we essentially agree.
I understand that circumcision became an american tradition but it first and foremost started out as a Jewish tradition which has extreme significance and value to the Jewish people. It is a sign of their covenant with God as the chosen nation. I understand why people would be against circumcision as a medical practice, but as a spiritual one for the Jewish people – they should never be bullied into thinking what they are doing to their child is wrong.
@Ava – you stated you are a Christian and that it is ordained for men to be circumcised, however, that is not the case for Christians. There are many references in the New Testament to believers that circumcision is not a requirement for salvation or adoption/grafting into the chosen people. In fact, there are refutes in the New Testament to Jewish believers who were questioning gentile validity as believers based on them not being circumcised. Not sure exactly why you think a Christian is called to be circumcised but just wanted to point that out cause it was confusing to me.
I personally would rather not circumcise my children, but my husband in circumcised and as it stands right now he would like to circumcise our children. I would like him to be more educated on the topic before he makes a choice just because it is what he had done, but I am not a man so I would like to leave it to my husband to make that decision for our sons. He understands the male body far better than I do, and if it were up to me to decide, yeah I would not do it because for me it is just a cosmetic procedure, but if it has significance to him, then I would like it to be his choice.
@Dan – thank you for posting that link, I will have my husband look at it and hopefully that will help him make a more informed decision should we be having a son – I am due in Dec with our 1st
The most compelling argument against circumcision in my book was the fact that there is no compelling medical reason to do it, combined with the risk of complications.
According to studies analyzed by the American Academy of Family Physicians, the risk of complications ranges from less than 1 percent to 35 percent. Many studies on complications only looked at a few weeks post-surgery, which is hardly long enough to determine a complication, IMHO.
http://www.aafp.org/online/en/home/clinical/clinicalrecs/children/circumcision.html
It simply was not a risk I was willing to take for a cosmetic procedure on my son’s genitals.
I do like the article – I think more opinions like yours are more likely to sway people against circ.
Oh and for the record, I think his un-circumsised penis is just as adorable as every other part of his body.
Overblown? This isn’t a broken arm — this is permanent amputation of a significant part of the penis, including 20,000+ nerve endings and structures like the “Ridged Band” and frenulum that are the most sensitive parts of all. It’s not the PAIN that’s so traumatic, Mr. Griscom, it’s the permanent sexual mutilation.
Nothing overblown about trying to stop sexual assault on infants.
~Barefoot Intactivist
I agree that there’s no right or wrong – and everyone will make their own decision.
If we have a boy, we will not be performing circumcision – for one main reason: my husband is not, so I don’t see why my children need to be. That works for us… Might not work for another family.
We didn’t circumcise our boys – but we are not Jewish! They have centuries of tradition, and direct instruction in their holy book. I don’t mind at all if no one else circumcises – i don’t see why we should… BUT the recent San Francisco brouhaha strikes me as very thinly veiled antisemitism, and that makes my skin crawl. I am not in favour of routine circumcision by everyone. But i’m extremely against antisemitic legislation dressed up like “health” or “child abuse” when it is really neither.
Thanks everyone for speaking out against genital cutting! I was cut and I wish I wasn’t. Take care.
Good points here! Our boys are not circumcised.
It is my understanding that now days, there is no pain to circumcisum procedure. They first give the baby tylnol, then they NUMB the surface, to prevent any pain during the operation. In most cases a baby feels nothing.
They follow up in days to come with Tylnol, in case there is discomfort, from soreness.
Even the ubilical cord recieves care for healing after being cut.
Should we stop cutting ubilical cords ? Do we know if it hurts the baby to cut an ubilical cord ?
Your explanation of pain, that you don’t remember, for a procedure is without merit.
My will circumcise my son if we ever have one. My reasoning is actually due to issues that arise in the elderly. We know that our children are well taken care of by us but what about if they end of needing care later in life and they are not cleaned properly in a nursing facility. There are cases of uncircumcised elderly men getting severe infections for this reason. It may seem like a far fetched way in the future reason to some but I want to make sure that my children are happy and healthy as long as possible. But to each their own.
Rufus, thanks for your response. My point isn’t so much that you are making a value judgment about whether STD victims around the world are sick because they didn’t wash (well, maybe a little) but whether you’ve really looked into whether the same conditions that make STDs more likely for uncut men (and their partners) in Africa apply here. If you took some time to look at the Centers for Disease Control fact sheet on the HIV issue, they say that the findings of the randomized controlled trials in Africa are backed up by observational studies around the world. Their description of the reasons this could be happening aren’t really about a hot shower, but about the biology of the uncircumcised penis. http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/circumcision.htm
I’ll add that in the realm of HPV, studies have shown that in both France and America, uncut men are far more likely to be infected with HPV, including the cancer causing forms of HPV. Scientists don’t think these men are getting infected more often. They think their uncut bodies are having a harder time getting rid of the infection, so they are staying infected longer. And this is why the partners of uncircumcised men are more likely to be killed by cervical or anal cancer or injured by the treatments to fight it.
I worry that when people think about STDs, they’re still thinking about things that are easily resolved, like crabs and the clap. I don’t think they’re thinking about these evil diseases that take their time to kill you the hard way, when you’re in the prime of your life. http://cellwarnotebooks.blogspot.com/2009/01/watch-me-breathe.html
I wonder how many cases of HPV and cervical, anal and throat cancer it will take to motivate people to take some individual responsibility to reduce it for themselves AND their partners. At this point, the only foolproof way to NOT pass sexually transmitted HPV around is to abstain from sex until partnered with another virgin in a relationship where both remain faithful.
So I guess what I’m saying is that when you dismiss the STD issue as a hygiene issue, it doesn’t seem like you’ve fully assessed the risks. But that said, I still like this article. And I wish your kids a happy and healthy life.
“How about decreased sexual sensation, isnt that a valid concern? My view is that the last thing my sons need is more sexual sensation than their father experienced.”
So many circumcised men say this. It’s like a colourblind man saying he can see perfectly well without the light being any brighter.
Doesn’t it occur to you that the billions of non-circumcised men in the world don’t have any problem with “too much sensitivity”? A pity you didn’t question your wife’s ex- further on this (perhaps he wasn’t the best person for you to ask) or he might have told you about the “symphony of sensation” he experiences thanks to the >20,000 specialised nerves and the unique rolling action that gives pleasure to both partners. (No, Katelet, it’s not “just a piece of skin”.) Perhaps that was why he was so vehement!
Which raises the question of whether any parents have any right to do this to future men. That’s why people want a ban; it has nothing to do with any religion.
@Lori Stevens-Nicholas: What will you cut off your baby daughters to ensure that they won’t get infections if the nurses don’t clean them properly when they’re old women in nursing facilities?
“But to each their own.” That’s exactly what the Intactivist movement says.
Shouldn’t it be up the the man if he wants to get cut? Why cant young men make this choice when they become young adults around 18? You know, when they have the ability to express their opinions.
Rufus, this was a great article, and I think you made a wise decision. Unfortunately, I did not make the same wise decision as you and your wife did. I was not exposed to the right information and was advised by many that it was the right way to go. After all, my husband was plenty satisfied. Do you think you would feel differently if your parents told you they did it because they thought it was the best thing to do? I often wish someone had just taken my son and circumcised him against my will instead of it being me who chose this. I feel like that would be an easier explanation for me to offer him at this point.
Thank you for your candor and this very reasonable and real take on the whole circumcision issue. So refreshing to read something that’s not hysterical.
Gee whiz, and I thhogut this would be hard to find out.
I truly feel like the STD argument holds NO water as a good reason to circumcise. While circumcised may have “less risk” or are “somewhat less likely” to contract or spread certain diseases, they are certainly not in any way immune. I certainly won’t tell my daughter to only have sex with circumcised men because she’s “LESS likely” to get a disease, I will make darn sure she is equipped with the knowledge that if she IS going to have sex, she’d better be prepared to make her partner wear a condom (if she swings that way, of course, she’s only two…) and I pray I instill her with enough confidence to tell anyone who doesn’t agree with her request to take a walk. As for my natural and uncut son, I will give him the same advice. Unless you’re in a truly monogamous relationship where you know everyone is clean, wear a freaking condom!!! The lack of foreskin is certainly not enough of a reason to throw caution to the wind and have unprotected sex.
My son is circumcised because my husband was adamant about it and I am genuinely on the fence. Until this article the Internet is useless for this discussion. I am an otherwise “crunchy” mama, natural birthing/breastfeeding/cosleeping yada yada but the behavior of intactivists actually steers me toward circumcision and is not at all helpful. Someone on these comments called it child rape! Seriously? I am pregnant again, don’t know the sex, and still on the fence. I think I would have confusion either way.
My husband & I chose not to circumcise our son. Why? Because we did not, and do not, believe we have the right to make such an alteration to his body. That is something for him to decide for himself, if he would even want to in the first place, when he is older. We are merely the custodians of our son’s body, not its owner.
I think about circumcision this way… If I wouldn’t want some one to mutilate, and permanently damage my genitals, then why would my son want that done to him?
Anthropologist, please do some research on condoms and HPV. You’ll find that you want to alter the advice you give your kids.
Lills, there are at least two reasons. One is that surveys show most American boys are already engaging in the activities that expose them to STDs before they are 18. The other is that studies show that the complication rate for this surgery is far higher for adults than it is for infants.
Rofl neither side is overblown both are right. You have a choice to choose, but if you refuse to do so you will miss out on some benefits that go with choosing to get a circumcision. They are as follows Lessened risk of Penile Cancer, Hiv, and UTI’s ALL ARE BAD SO BEFORE YOU MAKE A DECISION LOOK IT UP IT’S NOT ALL ABOUT RELIGION.
All benefits come from choosing to get a circumcision ask the doctor next time why they do it I Know I have.
Those uncircumcised have A 10 TIMES GREATER RISK OF UTI there’s a fact for you the next time you give advice.
Wow. I’m trembling in my boots. A 10 TIMES GREAT RISK of a common urinary tract infection that can be set right (if ever caught) by $4 antibiotics.
my fiance and i have decided not to circumcise our son because there has not once been a problem with him or his father or his fathers father an so on… it will teach him to keep himself clean and to keep up with his hygene. we feel that circumcision is unneccesary pain that we dont want to put onto our son.
@Anonanon, the infections in infant boys can lead to very serious consequences including permanent kidney scarring by the time they are caught. And while antibiotics can be used if the infection is caught in time, they carry their own consequences, particularly in young children. Some people feel that prevention is a healthier option than a drug that can also kill helpful bacteria in the developing immune system.
That’s a mold-breaker. Great tihnking!
No other country routinely amputates parts of infant genitalia in the name of “hygiene,” “disease prevention,” or “the need of the boy to look like his father when he grows up.” Everyone else thinks we’re barbaric – I did my graduate study in England, I got to discuss the issue with plenty of intact men, English or otherwise – and I am inclined to agree with them. There is no “debate.” There are no two sides to the story. We have laws against FGM in our country; we should outlaw MGM as well. It’s not “trimming a turtleneck.” Mutilated penises are not “a little cuter.” They’re mutilated. Case closed.
My dh was not circumcised but later on in life (mid-20′s) needed to be. I asked him he said he actually FEELS MORE SEXUAL sensation being curcumcised then when he was left “intact”. I think people need to ask men who have had sexual experiences before and after circumcision if they feel the same way or not before they jump to conclusions that men feel more sexual sensations with the foreskin.
Funny how the people who are against circumcision are usually intact men. If you claim that the circumcised men are “traumatized” or “victimized” or have a lower quality of life, where are the circumcised men speaking out against circumcision? QED.
Wrong wrong and wrong again. I was victimized as an infant. It was wrong, never should have happened and the right to that decision should have been mine, and not my parents who were led astray by lies and myths. QED answered.
As for the ones who feel more for the first while after circ after adulthood, that’s just before the glans (head) becomes keratinized and dried with extra skin covering it. It loses a LOT of it’s sensitivity after that period, so you gain a boost for a while and then it gets less sensitive. If they removed the Frenulum, you get way less still.
the only problem with this article is sometimes parents are ill informed. if you wish to circimsice your sons then go for it, but get the damn info beforehand. because sometimes they can be botched surgeries, sometimes they can have skin tags, sometiems the body will heal incorrectly, soemtimes they cut off too much, if you are informed and are willing to deal with everything that may come along with the decision.then go for it. dont just it just because its the norm. font do it because you believe in all the hype made about it. dont do it cuz you think its prettier (which i truthfully think it is but i have never been with a man who isnt, and i do not EVER plan on having sex with my son, so why should I be concerned about its appearance? thats for his wife to decide how appealing it looks to her) and dont do it because “he will look like daddy” please! when in the hell will yous husband compare his penis to his son. this is not a damn competition. my decision was based on all the info i could get my hands on. from both sides. i ultimately decided not to snip my son because there are plenty of men all over the world without it and they are fine. if it aint broke dont fix it
get your little american unused brains working a bit and educate yourself on what you are doing to your sons. thats all.
by the way i as a woman have probably had more uti’s in my lifetime than the men i know who arent cut. but i am NOT going to a doctor to get my genitals cut off. clitoral hoods are the equivalent to foreskins. women get smegma too.
@Evie, you probably realize that you should not be comparing the risk of circumcising to no risk at all. You should be comparing it to the risks of not circumcising, which are real and have been verified by science – your anecdotal experience aside.
I don’t think the cons are silly AT ALL. Some males have suffered from some really bad botched circumcsions…some MEN ARE effected sexually from their circumcisions. The foreskin is meant to be there and has a purpose. The foreskin is meant to protect the glans when the penis is flaccid. It is meant to keep the glans soft and moist. The foreskin contains over 20,000 nerve endings. While many circumcised men seem happy with their loss of nerve endings and protection, it doesn’t mean that there aren’t men out there, upset and pissed off…they shouldn’t be told they are silly or ignored either. . But i will agree with you on the fact that if something isn’t broke don’t fix it. We do NOT sign off on any other surgery for a “just in case”. All other surgery done on minors is only done for two reasons. 1) a problem has arisen and all other options have been tried first, yet failed. 2) IT is life or death. Removing healhlty functioning body part shortly after birth DOES NOT qualify. There are riks with every single surgery…but on minors the benefits should always outwiegh the risks…which just isn’t true for routine infant circumcision. PS…girls are at more risk for UTIs/other infections than any boy(circumcised or NOT)…yet we don’t remove any of her genitals. Most Other countries DO NOT circumcise like we do, and the men there do NOT have all sorts problems or “need” it done later
i didnt circumcise my son, why? because its not my penis… why would i put my son through surgery so his penis can look the way i want it to? thats messed up. and sorry but saying circumcised penises are cuter? what the heck kind of pedophile says something like that?!
if my son wants to be circumcised later on in life, thats his decision.
you cant undo being circumcised but you can decide to get cut later. its a personal decision, and to make it for your child is awful.
also, the “risk of infection” myth has been debunked. only 1 out of every 100,000 uncircumcised boys will ever get an infection (and its treated with simple antibiotics) if i get a UTI should i get my clitoris and lips removed to keep myself cleaner? no, thats dumb.
What is so silly about allowing boys to stay in possession of all their healthy functioning parts? This is why my son is intact, his prepuce has a purpose and a rightful owner.
Seriously? Ignore those of us that plead with you to keep your son whole? Let him decide when he is old enough to understand what circumcision is. He’ll never elect to have part of his penis removed!!!
The risk of urinary tract infection in infant boys is not a myth. The infections can be very serious in boys, because it can lead to permanent kidney damage. Tbe renal scarring caused by these infections can lead to a lifetime of high blood pressure. Mama1 and LindaM, the reason that no one suggests removing the clitoral hood to prevent infections in girls is because there is no reason to believe that it would work to prevent infection. Male circumcision, however, does prevent infections – it is well proven science, whether you personally want to call it a myth or not The risk of infection is not overwhelmingly large, but it is one of several health risks of not circumcising – including the risk of HPV infection and penile cancer – that add up over a lifetime.
And mama1, your numbers are off by a mile. Try this: “Neonatal circumcision decreases the risk of UTI by about 90% in male infants during the first year of life. The risk of UTI in a circumcised infant is about 1 in 1000 during the first year, whereas an uncircumcised male infant has a 1 in 100 risk of developing a UTI.” Not one in 100,000. One in one hundred. It’s a big difference.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/969643-overview#aw2aab6b2b2aa
To a circumcised man, I can see how the arguments against circumcision that involve decreased sensitivity and trauma sound trivial or ridiculous. I get that. It’s like trying to explain to someone who has had a tonsilectomy that the tonsils are a useful part of the immune system, or to someone who has had an appendectomy that the appendix contributes beneficial flora to the digestive tract. Both of these statements are true, but chances are that the person you’re talking to feels fine, doesn’t care, and doesn’t miss their unseen body part. When removed in infancy, the male foreskin too is unseen.
Outside the Phillipines, USA, certain Muslim countries and parts of Africa, if you ask a man to part with part of his penile skin he’d be mortified. Where would you make the arbitrary distinction about what constituted ‘foreskin’? It’s not a ‘flap of skin’, it’s not ‘extra’ or ‘overhanging’ – it’s part of a complex, erogenous moveable sheath. Most guys around the world know that it feels great during intercourse and masturbation and could not fathom WHY you’d want to cut a part of it off. The average American man can’t be expected to comprehend that, so discussions about sensitivity and trauma are worthless.
What if, though, you heard that it was commonplace in Malaysia to remove part or all of the clitoral hoods of baby girls? Malaysian women accept that. They can’t imagine it any other way. What do you NEED a clitoral hood for, after all? As an American, you know clitoral hood removal was unnecessary. What if you were then informed that 100-200 Malaysian girls a year died from the unnecessary practice? That a number of them suffered severe blood loss or the accidental amputation of their clitorises? But that despite all that, it was still deemed ‘generally safe’ and an ‘important cultural tradition’. How would you feel? Sick?
That’s how I feel when male infant circumcision is discussed in a positive light. Male circumcision became very rare here about 30 or so years ago. My brother, born to medical professionals, is the intact son of a contentedly circumcised father. As a woman, I’ve had a variety of circumcised and intact partners, and I cannot emphasise enough how much more I enjoy the normal penis. Some of my circumcised partners had considerable scarring and skin bridges from their circumcisions. Additionally, there was little to no movable shaft skin – some circumcisions I saw were so tight that hair was drawn up onto the shaft during erection. The glans was dry. Oral sex was dull, as there was nothing to move and retract and play with. I could not see how this was in any way supposedly ‘better’.
Rufus, I hope I haven’t offended you. My father – even though his circumcision nearly killed him – is happy being circumcised and can’t imagine himself any way. Like you though, he wisely decided to not inflict unnecessary surgery on his sons, and I commend you for this. There are options for men who are unhappily circumcised. It’s time consuming and takes dedication, but manual foreskin restoration is one of them: http://www.restoringforeskin.org Other than that, be happy with who you are and what you have, and be proud of not having risked your sons’ lives for an unnecessary cultural practice just because “That’s how we do things around here”.
@anon, you probably realize that you should not be comparing the risk of forearm amputation to no risk at all. You should be comparing it to the risks of not amputating forearms, which are real and have been verified by science – your anecdotal experience aside.
If only that were meaningful or clever. But the uncircumcised right here in the U.S. bear a higher risk of UTIs before age five that can lead to serious, permanent renal scarring. They bear a higher risk of STDs including cancer-causing HPV. And they bear a higher risk of penile cancer. These are real risks, not word games.
There is a difference between desire and pleasure. Decreasing sexual pleasure does nothing to decrease sexual appetite. The parts of the brain responsible for desire are different than those responsible for pleasure; wanting and liking are two different things. So if anything, you’d end up hurting the person even more, because, whatever their sexual appetite was, they’d find less satisfaction.
Many people do not know what the facts about circumcision are and blindly let their doctors snip off their child’s foreskin.Its a pretty sad world. When a baby’s foreskin is cut off he is losing thousands of sensory nerves and an important part of protection. The foreskin is there to protect against infection! We are not animals and must learn how to keep clean and wash down there. AND to those out there who do it so your boy doesn’t feel like an outcast in the locker-room are complete idiots. To risk their sons health for the sake of embarrassment? Honestly the only reason that people really get infections down there is because they didn’t do a good job cleaning themselves. Furthermore to the religious believers, why would god give us parts that he doesn’t want us to use? Grow a brain people…
Well written. I fully agree. As a “natural” male, I have found all of the pro-circumcision arguments to be false. The anti-circumcision crowd are equally fanatical, but I believe they are fundamentally right. The elevated risk of UTIs (less than 1%) in natural newborns is more than offset by the risk of complications from the surgery (1/2 to 3% depending on the source). As for later sexual functioning as an adult, I agree that that any actual differences are probably exaggerated. That said, I am rather fond of my foreskin. In my 62 years of life, it has never caused me a problem and under occasional conditions I’ve been very happy to have it. On my wife’s side of the family they circumcise. One of my nephews on her side had a rather painful infection from his circumcision. Another reason not to circumcise, which I rarely read about, is that the foreskin tissue (jokes aside) can be used in various reconstructive surgeries, including that of the bladder.
In the most recent issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association, two public health experts point out that observational studies here back up the results of the studies in Africa. It is not a question of water availability or hygiene.
http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/306/13/1479.full
“One concern is that the trials of male circumcision conducted in Africa may not be applicable to the United States. Despite 3 decades of safe-sex education in the United States, STIs continue to cause substantial morbidity and mortality. It is estimated that more than 1 million people are living with HIV/AIDS, and more than 50 000 new infections occur annually. Additional estimates suggest that there are 3 million to 5 million annual cases of trichomoniasis in the United States, and the prevalence of bacterial vaginosis among women of reproductive age is approximately 30%. One of the most common STIs is HPV, which causes genital warts, and penile and cervical cancer. Observational studies in the United States show that male circumcision is associated with reduced risk of men acquiring heterosexual HIV and HR-HPV infection. Thus, STIs are a persistent problem in the United States, and male circumcision may provide individual and societal benefits.”
The same experts note that there is no scientific evidence that circumcision harms sexual performance or satisfaction. The complication rate is minor in infants but higher in adults – delaying the procedure ADDS surgical risk. Doing it in an infant provides several benefits that an adult will miss: “Neonatal male circumcision provides other potential benefits during childhood such as prevention of infant urinary tract infections, meatitis, balanitis, and phimosis,8 as well as protection from viral STIs. Approximately 50% of high school students report having sex prior to 18 years of age, so delaying male circumcision to age 18 years or older would deny children and adolescents these potential benefits.”
it seems like a great article but you will enjoy this one more read here…http://is.gd/Yo5fib
NY Times is jewish paper .And you now what jewish people do to their boys
I was cut post-virginity at age 38, to please a woman, and now see it as a mistake. Don’t misunderstand: the best sex I’ve ever has been post-circ, with the woman I love. Sexual pleasure takes place more between the ears than between the crotch. That said, for me at first having sex after being circumcised I had a vague sense of ‘something missing’. It was like tasting a spicy dish and sensing that one spice was not added. I recently came across a Danish study showing that unsatisfactory sex in older couples-both man and woman–is significantly higher when the man is circumcised. Another troubling finding is that in the US, where most men are circumcised, the HIV/AIDS rate it higher than in Europe, where most men aren’t. The African studies aren’t at all valid: American HIV/AIDS is mostly caused by anal sex and addicts’ sharing unclean needles. For baby boys, I agree with leaving them intact: if it works, don’t fix it.
Working with the elderly has made me lean towards circumcision. God forbid, you are put under someone else’s care, and can not clean yourself! I have seen men in extreme pain because the penis was not cleaned properly. I can not begin to explain the smell or what it looks like. It’s terrible. I even took care of a man once who had to have surgery after such an infection. OUCH!!!! I always make sure to clean my elderly men very well in that area because it is my job, but also, I know a lot of the girls are grossed out by it and won’t do it!!! Sad, but true fellas!!!!!